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View Full Version : Will this game have ranked play?



IruuL
01-12-2015, 01:51 PM
Has it been said anywhere if there will be a ranked constructed or limited play mode? In Hearthstone, for example, there is ranked constructed mode that matches you with players of similar rank. While I think Hex is the better game, I play Hearthstone more because of this. As it is right now, unless I'm in a constructed tournament (which rarely ever starts) there is very little incentive to play.

Yoss
01-12-2015, 01:53 PM
Yes, it is planned. The "rank" is already there, actually, used in the random Proving Grounds matchmaker. Some sort of ladder is coming later.

mccoy
01-12-2015, 04:10 PM
Which parameters is the ranking algorithm based upon?

Scammanator
01-12-2015, 04:14 PM
Which parameters is the ranking algorithm based upon?

We don't know. Chark's been intentionally keeping the details fairly quiet. All we know is that it takes into account both tournament performance and random opponent proving grounds performance.

Axle
01-14-2015, 09:25 AM
Even if it works well already, some sort of visible rating is probably more necessary for it to take off and be more popular. At least so players actually know they are facing better players and not just guess. I spent a couple days just spamming the proving ground and winning, through it I barely noticed a difference from the 80% starter deck opponents. I don't have fun facing them and they don't have fun facing me knowing they have no shot at winning, so I eventually just stopped.

Drake6k
01-14-2015, 11:49 PM
Yes, it is planned. The "rank" is already there, actually, used in the random Proving Grounds matchmaker. Some sort of ladder is coming later.

Does anyone know if the Proving Grounds matchmaker actually uses any data to determine matches? If it is already compiling data about me I might feel more inclined to use it.

Gwaer
01-15-2015, 12:04 AM
We've been told that yes it is. Though many people believe that it isn't. Hard to say for certain.

Hexgo
01-15-2015, 07:17 AM
We've been told that yes it is. Though many people believe that it isn't. Hard to say for certain.

I thought Chark said it isn't since there would be to long waiting times for many players (not enough players to split them into different ranks).

Altough the ranks are tracked for individual players. However i think there will be a reset anyway when the matchmaking through ranks comes into play and the tracking is only used for research atm.

Xenavire
01-15-2015, 07:51 AM
The tracking is there, that much is certain. I believe the matching is there, but has a bunch of overrides to prevent empty queues (nothing worse than looking and not finding, especially when there are others also looking.)

I wouldn't take this as confirmed info however.

IruuL
01-15-2015, 09:45 AM
My experience with the proving grounds have been bad. I want to practice tournament level decks and I get paired with starter decks. Granted, because proving grounds are pretty much a waste of time, I haven't played enough for the alleged matchmaking to kick in, though I do not think I should have to play tens of games just to start playing people on my level.

Svenn
01-15-2015, 02:08 PM
My experience with the proving grounds have been bad. I want to practice tournament level decks and I get paired with starter decks. Granted, because proving grounds are pretty much a waste of time, I haven't played enough for the alleged matchmaking to kick in, though I do not think I should have to play tens of games just to start playing people on my level.

A matchmaking system needs a bunch of games to calibrate. Every game with competitive matchmaking requires about 10 games to pick your starting point. Games like Starcraft 2 required you to play 10 matches before it even placed you. I've seen similar things in most MOBAs as well. The more you play, the more accurate it gets. It can't just know your skill level unless it has stats to base it on.

There are a few other important things here though. First of all, because of the variety of decks it's harder to get an accurate rating for someone. What if I were to hop in and play a bunch of games to test my T1 tournament deck, then go and create a silly deck to mess around, then create some random other decks to try out. My wins/losses will be all over the place. How do you rank that without getting crazy complicated? You could tie ratings to individual decks, but that's a lot to track and you could do things like create a newb deck and tank your rating then change it into a T1 deck.

Second, Hex is still fairly new and not being advertised yet. We have a decent number of players, but we're not into massive numbers yet. Of those players, the majority of higher level players are in tournaments most of the time, and those who ARE looking to test T1 decks usually have a group they test with (there are several tournament teams out there that create and test decks together already) so you won't run into them in the proving grounds.

Third, the single round constructed queue was placed there specifically for things like testing competitive decks. That's not what the random proving grounds matches are for.

israel.kendall
01-15-2015, 02:19 PM
I Dont think there is any need to tie rankings to individual decks. Just need a ranked play option for when you want to play serious decks and then a casual non-ranked queue for when you want to mess around with silly decks.

dogmod
01-15-2015, 02:48 PM
I Dont think there is any need to tie rankings to individual decks. Just need a ranked play option for when you want to play serious decks and then a casual non-ranked queue for when you want to mess around with silly decks.

This

Poetic
01-16-2015, 03:59 AM
Just make proving grounds have two options. Casual and tournament practice.

israel.kendall
01-16-2015, 05:05 AM
Just make proving grounds have two options. Casual and tournament practice.

There are many levels of players within the tourney scene, I think ranked is still needed.

Svenn
01-16-2015, 08:37 AM
Just make proving grounds have two options. Casual and tournament practice.

This already exists. The Proving Grounds random match is casual. The single queue under tournaments is the tournament practice area.

Axle
01-16-2015, 01:13 PM
This already exists. The Proving Grounds random match is casual. The single queue under tournaments is the tournament practice area.

And that queue has no matchmaking at all. I face a lot of starter decks there too sadly.

I say it every time it's brought up, but I dunno why the HEX team put such a low importance over ranked when if they just looked around they'd notice it's a huge part in the success in any competitive game to get people to keep playing it. I get that PVE is more important, but there's some other stuff they have planned that is less important.


There is plans for some sort of player ranking system. This will allow players who play a specific tournament type to eventually be able to play in special ‘higher ranked’ tournaments of that type that is just for qualifying players. A lot of the player ‘ranking’ system is still up in the air. They haven’t really focused on whether or not we’ll have things like rankings or an ELO system or some combination of each. They want casual players to be able to have fun with the ranking system, so they want to find a balance of systems that allows that.

Please no to just making "qualify tournaments" =/. The whole point for the elo system is so both casual and higher level players can have fun. It separates them to do so. Qualifying tournaments would be worse and would just give one side of the coin something to do and not for very long considering how inactive tournaments are in general.

Xenavire
01-16-2015, 01:21 PM
And that queue has no matchmaking at all. I face a lot of starter decks there too sadly.

I say it every time it's brought up, but I dunno why the HEX team put such a low importance over ranked when if they just looked around they'd notice it's a huge part in the success in any competitive game to get people to keep playing it. I get that PVE is more important, but there's some other stuff they have planned that is less important.

It probably has a lot more to do with the number of concurrent active users, and the number actively using any form of matchmaking - I would wager that ranked is a low priority because the population is still a little on the small side.

N3rd4Christ
01-16-2015, 01:23 PM
I agree. I would like to see a ladder of some sort to climb. If nothing else just to face better opponents/decks

Axle
01-16-2015, 01:29 PM
It probably has a lot more to do with the number of concurrent active users, and the number actively using any form of matchmaking - I would wager that ranked is a low priority because the population is still a little on the small side.

Ranked queues increase concurrent users though. They give people a way to progress each time they log in which other than card collection, is incredibly lacking in HEX right now. Scrolls doesn't have too many users themselves and their ladder functions fine. Just have a system that looks for people closest to your rating at first, and then increases that range over time. I think most people wouldn't mind waiting awhile for a game if it was a really good game.

Axle
01-16-2015, 01:31 PM
It probably has a lot more to do with the number of concurrent active users, and the number actively using any form of matchmaking - I would wager that ranked is a low priority because the population is still a little on the small side.

Ranked queues increase concurrent users though. They give people a way to progress each time they log in which other than card collection, is incredibly lacking in HEX right now. Scrolls doesn't have too many users themselves and their ladder functions fine. Just have a system that looks for people closest to your rating at first, and then increases that range over time. I think most people wouldn't mind waiting awhile for a game if it was a really good game.

The reason competitive players don't play in the proving ground is because competitive play isn't found in the proving ground. If we had ranked then much more people would use it. @Svenn There are a lot more people that are competitive and not in focus groups than you think. They just have nothing to do in HEX because of it. And yes, a ranked queue would decrease tournament inactivity. However it would make constructed more important to a lot of users and increase auction house activity.

Xenavire
01-16-2015, 02:25 PM
I didn't say it wouldn't give the game a boost, just that its a possible explanation - I mean, given that point of view, with PvE and free to player to consider, and it makes a fair amount of sense for this exact point in development. Give it a few months and we may just see the focus shift a little back to PvP, specifically for features like this.

Then again, there could be numerous reasons why they haven't implemented it yet.

TOOT
01-16-2015, 04:05 PM
I think a big reason is that CZE doesn't want to lose the activity in tournaments where they actually profit off them.

If big/spending players have the urge to play anything competitively at the moment, they are left with tournaments. If a ladder opened up, you can bet a big enough chunk of those heavy tournament players would shift over to ranked play, at least some of the time. The tournament scene would take a pretty big hit where waiting for a tournament to fire up could take at least twice as long as it currently does. They really can't afford that to happen at the moment.

I don't think it is a development thing, I think it's more a health of the game thing.

Axle
01-16-2015, 04:47 PM
I think a big reason is that CZE doesn't want to lose the activity in tournaments where they actually profit off them.

If big/spending players have the urge to play anything competitively at the moment, they are left with tournaments. If a ladder opened up, you can bet a big enough chunk of those heavy tournament players would shift over to ranked play, at least some of the time. The tournament scene would take a pretty big hit where waiting for a tournament to fire up could take at least twice as long as it currently does. They really can't afford that to happen at the moment.

I don't think it is a development thing, I think it's more a health of the game thing.

8 mans fire..what..3 times a day? Pretty sure a ranked ladder would give them much more money via auction house activity, like I said. There does seem to be a problem with 8 man constructed that needs to be fixed, same with 128 man dailies. When they increased the pack reward of constructed tournaments it didn't help much. It's certainly not a lack of players in HEX because drafts are doing fine. People just aren't willing to spend the money and when forced to use a huge block of time to playing in a tournament, seem to enjoy draft more.