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Chark
01-12-2015, 07:53 PM
Hey guys,

A couple of caveats for the AA numbers:

1. Counts may go up on some of the cards as people are still redeeming KS codes and we for example will release more Ozawas and Jovial Pippits in the future.
2. Sometimes a card may reveal info about the game that we don't wish to be public. In that case we aren't going to give you a count (see for example Baby Yeti releasing the number of accounts in the game, or WoF cards confirming relative and absolute drop rates).
3. At some point this may become unsustainable for us to do and we may abandon it. Releasing it now in no way implies that we will always release this info.



Card Name Count
Adamanthian Scrivener 14112
Darkspire Punisher 11120
Extinction 16992
Filk Ape 1390
Genesis Pool Naiad 3306
Guardian Angel 3306
Jovial Pippit 530
Living Totem 3306
Master Theorycrafter 3306
Menacing Gralk 2643
Ozawa Cosmic Elder 329
Pack Raptor 13728
Princess Victoria 18656
Ragefire 14846
Replicator's Gambit 20946
Xentoth's Inquisitor 2643

BossHoss
01-12-2015, 07:54 PM
Awesome thanks Chark!

It's quite interesting to see that there are less AA Gralk and Inquisitors than there are Collector Tier AA's

Kami
01-12-2015, 08:02 PM
Wow... a lot less AA Gralk/Inquisitor than I thought.

Also interesting to note that Replicator's Gambit is only 20,946 as opposed to the 32,575 originally thought.

Huge variance on Extinction, Princess Victoria, and Pack Raptor as well.

That's a massive difference... I wonder how many tiers got refunded (probably calculable but too lazy to maths atm - then again, a lot are probably still unredeemed). o.o

Collector tier is almost spot on though. ~826 full playsets out of ~904 calculated.

vulture27
01-12-2015, 08:09 PM
Awesome thanks Chark!

It's quite interesting to see that there are less AA Gralk and Inquisitors than there are Collector Tier AA's

Definitely. I'm a lot more interested in holding on to my extras for a while now.

Zomnivore
01-12-2015, 08:09 PM
Cool.

The vip cards are going to be pretty rare B)

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 08:12 PM
Thanks so much for this info! And its totally understandable about not releasing some numbers and the fact that this may be unsustainable.

bootlace
01-12-2015, 08:15 PM
Thanks, updated http://www.hexprimal.com/hex-tcg-exclusives-guide/

ossuary
01-12-2015, 08:25 PM
Thank you very much for the info Chark! :)

I wonder what the long term effect of this knowledge will have on the Gralk/Inquisitor AA price, since we now know for a fact that there are less of them than Collector tier cards (and there could still be more Collector cards out there due to unredeemed tiers). Anyone who sold Gralk/Inquisitor for 600 or less last month when they bottomed out may be feeling a bit of seller's remorse right now. ;)

meowstef
01-12-2015, 08:42 PM
much interested in this info thanks for it

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 09:05 PM
I agree Oss, I think a big market correction is coming.

Fateanomaly
01-12-2015, 09:31 PM
Too bad i am at work now.

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 09:37 PM
And for scrivener AA, there are lots less than I thought there would be. While 14,112 scriv's may sound like a large number, this means that only maximum 3,528 people can own playsets of scriv AA's.

KingGabriel
01-12-2015, 09:46 PM
Ah thanks a bunch Chark :)

ossuary
01-12-2015, 10:09 PM
And for scrivener AA, there are lots less than I thought there would be. While 14,112 scriv's may sound like a large number, this means that only maximum 3,528 people can own playsets of scriv AA's.

It also means roughly 1,764 tournaments fired during the entire week and a half of the Christmas (sorry, Night of Bells) celebration. The real number's a bit lower than that, because a few daily scheduled events would have fired during that time as well, but it's a good rough guess of holiday tournament activity.

We managed nearly as many tournaments during the release event weekend, and that was only 3 days. Everyone wanted a piece of that action. :)

Deathlock
01-12-2015, 10:11 PM
I wish I knew this statistics before putting my VIP AAs on AH.. kinda sad..sigh
Anyway, thanks for the info :)

Bloodslave
01-12-2015, 10:26 PM
I agree Oss, I think a big market correction is coming.

That was fast. All jumped from 1,300 to 3,500 in a few hours.

Kramer
01-12-2015, 10:28 PM
Thanks for this info Chark. However, I am looking forward to final counts on Raid Leader and Spectral Lotus Garden once PvE gets implemented. Based on the final Kickstarter page, Raid Leader will be 1,191 and Spectral Lotus Garden will be 9,055 but not sure about those that received refunds on their Kickstarters. In addition, not sure if Raid Leader will be tradeable for those lucky enough that purchased more than one Grand King and above. If Raid Leader is tradeable or allowed to go on the AH, my prediction is it will be the most expensive card in the game.

Renquist
01-12-2015, 10:29 PM
bah...

Gralk and Inquisitor are the two that were missing...and my ks collectors dropped in value. Thanks I guess.

magic_gazz
01-12-2015, 10:31 PM
Man I was feeling so good selling those Gralks and Xentoths for 1600 each, now I feel like a chump.

Thanks for that Chark :P

N3rd4Christ
01-12-2015, 10:34 PM
And there goes the prices :P

KingGabriel
01-12-2015, 10:35 PM
bah...

Gralk and Inquisitor are the two that were missing...and my ks collectors dropped in value. Thanks I guess.
Geez, I'm sick of you 100% of your posts are you complaining so far. :P
(For future reference, this is their first post)

Renquist
01-12-2015, 10:37 PM
WTB AA Gralk / Inquisitor....paying more then the guy who posted above me

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 10:52 PM
That was fast. All jumped from 1,300 to 3,500 in a few hours.

Market correction seemed to be happening rather quickly, that's for sure. I think there is more to come though. If you think about it logically, gralk is played more than guardian angel for sure. Xentoths is seeing play now as much as totem if not more. Now with gralk more rare + more play than angel, and xentoths more rare with equal or greater play than totem, then gralk should be going for higher than angel and xentoths equal or higher than totem. This should put gralk at 2500+ and xentoths at 4500+ IMO

At time of writing this both gralk and xentoths have 2000p buyouts on the AH.

N3rd4Christ
01-12-2015, 10:53 PM
Market correction seemed to be happening rather quickly, that's for sure. I think there is more to come though. If you think about it logically, gralk is played more than guardian angel for sure. Xentoths is seeing play now as much as totem if not more. Now with gralk more rare + more play than angel, and xentoths more rare with equal or greater play than totem, then gralk should be going for higher than angel and xentoths equal or higher than totem. This should put gralk at 2500+ and xentoths at 4500+ IMO

Not gonna happen. People will just stick with non AA

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 10:55 PM
Poppycock I say!

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 10:56 PM
If people stick with the non AA then why are totem and angel AA going for these prices?

Bloodslave
01-12-2015, 11:09 PM
If people stick with the non AA then why are totem and angel AA going for these prices?

People love the bling.

israel.kendall
01-12-2015, 11:37 PM
Blangin' rollin all up thru HEX with my gold watch, twinkies, and xentoths AA's LOL

KingGabriel
01-12-2015, 11:38 PM
Just remember, you're paying 35x the price on totems for a png swap. :D

FlyingMeatchip
01-12-2015, 11:51 PM
Thank you very much for the info Chark! :)

I wonder what the long term effect of this knowledge will have on the Gralk/Inquisitor AA price, since we now know for a fact that there are less of them than Collector tier cards (and there could still be more Collector cards out there due to unredeemed tiers). Anyone who sold Gralk/Inquisitor for 600 or less last month when they bottomed out may be feeling a bit of seller's remorse right now. ;)

Who would do that, that's just insane to sell at that price.

Bloodslave
01-13-2015, 12:01 AM
Who would do that, that's just insane to sell at that price.

Draft addicts.

Mike411
01-13-2015, 01:04 AM
Thanks for the numbers. This makes some current collector tier AA prices look silly in comparison to VIP.

I'm looking at you, 5675 plat living totem.

Xenavire
01-13-2015, 01:12 AM
I feel a disturbance in the market.

Antfunk
01-13-2015, 01:13 AM
Nice info. Personally I just keep all my AA's to play with. I figure if I ever do cash out the chances are that the longer away that is the more valuable they will be :).

Lukezors
01-13-2015, 04:07 AM
Glad I waited to sell my second set of VIP AAs. A little sad at selling the first set for around 1400 each but the plat was useful at the time :) Anyone want to trade their living totem AA for my inquisitor AA?

L1ght
01-13-2015, 04:48 AM
Cool info Chark!

Definitely not the figures I would have guessed - Those VIP Rares! Hate to think how few of the Set 2 batch there will be... and Set 3?! Might end up rarest cards in the game.

While we are on the subject of AA cards though.... Any Update on when we'll see the other two Collector Tier AA to round out the 2014 6-Per-Year? Last we heard about it I believe was in kickstarter update 5th December:


"We’re also working on adding two more alternate art cards to round out the six total promised each year, and we’ll announce those sometime in the near future."

ossuary
01-13-2015, 05:34 AM
Again I have to remind people who keep bringing this up, they did NOT say it was 6 per calendar year. Since the game went into beta at the end of April, and we didn't own our collections until then, you could very reasonably make the argument that that is the cutoff date for the 1 year.

Now, long term, it would probably make sense to shift it to 6 per calendar year on a Jan - Dec schedule because that is less confusing, but really it's going to all depend on them finalizing how many sets per year they're going to publish (and getting themselves onto a hard and fast development/release schedule). But right now, I would say it's fine if they take the time to get those AAs ironed out (since they wouldn't have even commissioned the art for them yet), rather than trying to rush them out the door right this second to satisfy the people who figure they were entitled to them by December 31st.

zebuli
01-13-2015, 06:26 AM
I'm gonna be rich with all my AAs:P

fido_one
01-13-2015, 03:37 PM
Just remember, you're paying 35x the price on totems for a png swap. :D

Says the man building a new economy system on png swaps.

Kami, I know bootlace was kind enough to populate his Hex Primal site, but when you have the time could you reflect these real numbers somewhere in your calculations? Your post/sheet is still my go-to.

I think the discrepancy that you're seeing Kami is non-refunded tiers. I remember Cory saying there was only a small margin of refunds, a.k.a. like a hundred or two hundred if I remember correctly (I generally don't remember correctly). Very interested when they turn off KS tier codes what the market will look like - got my gardens in mind!

Kami
01-13-2015, 03:58 PM
Kami, I know bootlace was kind enough to populate his Hex Primal site, but when you have the time could you reflect these real numbers somewhere in your calculations? Your post/sheet is still my go-to.

I think the discrepancy that you're seeing Kami is non-refunded tiers. I remember Cory saying there was only a small margin of refunds, a.k.a. like a hundred or two hundred if I remember correctly (I generally don't remember correctly). Very interested when they turn off KS tier codes what the market will look like - got my gardens in mind!

I'm not updating mine just yet because while the numbers given are accurate for how many are in circulation (for now), they also don't reflect the purpose of my calculations. While some of the tiers were refunded, Chark has stated above that there are still several tiers that are currently unclaimed as well. My calculations were basically a rough baseline estimate.

L1ght
01-13-2015, 05:22 PM
Again I have to remind people who keep bringing this up, they did NOT say it was 6 per calendar year. Since the game went into beta at the end of April, and we didn't own our collections until then, you could very reasonably make the argument that that is the cutoff date for the 1 year.

Now, long term, it would probably make sense to shift it to 6 per calendar year on a Jan - Dec schedule because that is less confusing, but really it's going to all depend on them finalizing how many sets per year they're going to publish (and getting themselves onto a hard and fast development/release schedule). But right now, I would say it's fine if they take the time to get those AAs ironed out (since they wouldn't have even commissioned the art for them yet), rather than trying to rush them out the door right this second to satisfy the people who figure they were entitled to them by December 31st.

Well the Kickstarter said 6 Per Year so I guess that's where people are getting calender year from. Its really a question of when the year starts and we've been asking for clarification of that for over a year now.

I think one could also very reasonably make the argument that the year starts from September 2013 seeing as that is when the Kickstarter promised deliver of the product.

Or one might 'reasonably' argue the game still isn't "released" yet so the first year hasn't even started.

The middle ground is Calender Year and also makes the most sense.

Which is why people are wondering where the cards are... and I guarantee they have commissioned the art already.

israel.kendall
01-13-2015, 05:40 PM
I agree with those arguments, and I'm sure they have lots of yet unused art already actually.

Aradon
01-13-2015, 06:57 PM
Well, that post mentioning the next pair did make it sound like the intent was to have two more for 2014. People aren't just assuming the calendar year right now, they're mostly going off that as the latest word.

RoyHarper
01-13-2015, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the numbers Chark!

ossuary
01-13-2015, 08:22 PM
I think one could also very reasonably make the argument that the year starts from September 2013 seeing as that is when the Kickstarter promised deliver of the product.

No, no, no, and no again. ESTIMATES are not, never have been, and never WILL be, promised delivery dates. Another constant error by certain people around here.

LNQ
01-14-2015, 01:04 AM
Starting to sound pretty damn arrogant there, oss. One error by certain people around here.

It was a level-headed reply by L1ght where you picked one sentence out of the context of the point of the post.

poizonous
01-14-2015, 01:07 AM
Starting to sound pretty damn arrogant there, oss. One error by certain people around here.

some of us get arrogant because every other week we argue the same things.

Falaris
01-14-2015, 01:14 AM
Again I have to remind people who keep bringing this up, they did NOT say it was 6 per calendar year. Since the game went into beta at the end of April, and we didn't own our collections until then, you could very reasonably make the argument that that is the cutoff date for the 1 year.

Now, long term, it would probably make sense to shift it to 6 per calendar year on a Jan - Dec schedule because that is less confusing, but really it's going to all depend on them finalizing how many sets per year they're going to publish (and getting themselves onto a hard and fast development/release schedule). But right now, I would say it's fine if they take the time to get those AAs ironed out (since they wouldn't have even commissioned the art for them yet), rather than trying to rush them out the door right this second to satisfy the people who figure they were entitled to them by December 31st.

Not really sure why you're on a high horse about this. CZE has already stated they planned on getting 2 more AAs out by the end of the year to satisfy their 6 per year. That makes it pretty obvious their definition of 'year' is the same as 99% of the world: january-december.

hex_colin
01-14-2015, 01:46 AM
Not really sure why you're on a high horse about this. CZE has already stated they planned on getting 2 more AAs out by the end of the year to satisfy their 6 per year. That makes it pretty obvious their definition of 'year' is the same as 99% of the world: january-december.

No, they didn't. These are their exact words from December 5th...


We’re also working on adding two more alternate art cards to round out the six total promised each year, and we’ll announce those sometime in the near future.

No definition of when the "year" starts and ends, no commitment for anything by the end of 2014.

Xenavire
01-14-2015, 02:58 AM
How did this nice, helpful thread turn into a big fight? What relevance does future Collector AA's have in relation to the topic? We know exactly how many to expect after all, I don't see how the timing of the releases matters in the slightest.

What has me surprised is how few holiday AA's there were for such a long period, makes me very curious about how rare the gencon items will be, especially if the drop rate is low.

Khazrakh
01-14-2015, 03:10 AM
What has me surprised is how few holiday AA's there were for such a long period, makes me very curious about how rare the gencon items will be, especially if the drop rate is low.

Well that's still about 135 drafts a day or a draft every 10 minutes, not too shabby in my book ;)

LNQ
01-14-2015, 03:27 AM
No definition of when the "year" starts and ends, no commitment for anything by the end of 2014.

This is true, but it is also very poorly communicated if they did not mean "by end of 2014". It's as if they are deliberately trying to confuse people and cause conflict.

bootlace
01-14-2015, 03:33 AM
This is true, but it is also very poorly communicated if they did not mean "by end of 2014". It's as if they are deliberately trying to confuse people and cause conflict.

I think we have to keep in mind that during the KS they were probably juggling a million things and a few details got lost or not perfectly stated or of course they never considered the game would be delayed this much. There was a similar criticisms over the VIP program not super clearly detailing that VIP tournaments would require an entrance fee.

I think in these situations we should give them the benefit of the doubt but clearing up the air now that things are more calm and the players are asking for clarification seems like the reasonable course of action.

silverlocke
01-18-2015, 06:28 PM
Just want to say I appreciate putting this info out for us to see!