PDA

View Full Version : Definitely continue VIP in some form...



Counter
01-25-2015, 09:39 AM
So I am quite happy to report that the VIP tourneys in my experience were a success. Of course I like discounted packs, but in all honestly, only 4 packs a month for $4 doesn't isn't really the selling point at all. It's the tourneys. Having big tourneys fire with 128 players adds a bit of excitement and fun to the game. Plus, and I think every knows this, the 8 player constructed barely fire and do not offer the same experience at all.

I understand that the VIP was discontinued due to the chance players would abuse the system for discounted packs. Sure, that was a fine decision and I agree.

But in order to keep this game going strong in terms of competitive constructed play, I would definitely recommend considering maintaining having the special official constructed tourneys.

I certainly understand there are some "fan based" tourneys, but my experience in the one time I played in one was negative due to the time of it (I'm in Korea so have to play these things at 2am start time) and I much prefer the logistics (clocks, rounds, matching) done by the official system.

For an online video game, I'd definitely recommend a rating system or something. One thing I was thinking about from a business standpoint would be to reward wins with points to encourage more play.

For example 128 mans would give say 5 points for each win. And 8 mans would give 1 point for each win. 128 mans also have special prizes whereas 8 mans do not.

And there is a list of everyone names so people can track their progress quarterly with each set.

Naysayers could say "Yes, but wouldn't this system mean those who play more get more chance for points." And I say, "Yes exactly, that's the point. You want to encourage people to play more, spend more money etc. Isn't that what a business is?"

As much as I like draft, and I think I prefer it, having a monthly big tourney keeps the game having a competitive feel to it. I do like the rotating sealed and constructed each month, but I'm sure other players might prefer a bi-weekly thing, although I suppose too many VIPs might remove the specialness of it all. That's a different debate and one I think people should talk about.

How often should we have these big things? Because basically as it stands now, the 128 daily constructed almost never fire. I have a free daily constructed ticket on my account and have tried to enter one many times for the last month and it has never fired. So in my experience, the 128 daily player tourneys are dead.

I'd say just offer people special sleeves monthly and access to special tourneys and it would generate cash for Hex. Also I'm looking forward to sealed. The most interesting thing for me to see is if sealed would garner a few players always at the top, then I know it's not all luck (of course luck players a role in sealed and in card games in general), but if say the same guy can get 1st place in large 128 tourneys and hold the top rating for a year, then clearly it's not luck. But we'll never know without a rating system that encourages more play and people to spend more money.

Anyway, I wanted to put a positive thread on here. And for me, the last VIP tourney was very positive. My only complaint is that I didn't have more VIP tickets. BC frankly, if Hex would let me spend 500 plat say 10 times a month, I would do it...and essentially that's $50 a month from me, but current system does not let me give Hex my money for VIP, haha. From a business standpoint, getting players to spend at least $50/month regularly is a good business model.

TJTaylor
01-25-2015, 10:36 AM
Very well thought out post and I definitely agree with everything you are saying.

We do have the scheduled sealed and constructed 128 man tournaments though, and the prizes are pretty good for them as long as you do well, but people just aren't as interested in those. Probably because no AAs. Maybe they could adjust the prize structure of those to increase interest without adding too much value.

I am also pretty sure that a rating system of some sort is in the works as well.

ossuary
01-25-2015, 12:47 PM
There is absolutely no question that large-scale tournaments with bigger prizes will return in some form, even if it is directly from a redesign on VIP. Cory specifically said that they were surprised and pleased with how popular both the tournaments and prizes turned out to be. I can 100% guarantee you will see this trend continue in the future.

israel.kendall
01-25-2015, 03:47 PM
I think the tourneys with cool prizes are highly needed right now. And I also feel these tourneys do not need to be tied to any VIP program. They have recognized the great success of VIP tourneys already. But this leaves me wondering what they are waiting for to implement tourneys like this for everyone. All the pieces are already in game and working, if they wanted they could start a monthly / weekly tourney in no time flat. Why they have not yet done so is a bit baffling to me.

jonsnow2000
01-25-2015, 03:57 PM
I'd be happy if they just sold VIP tickets in the store for 100-200 Plat

Thrawn
01-25-2015, 04:24 PM
I'd be happy if they just sold VIP tickets in the store for 100-200 Plat

I'd sell them for 10X that amount. You currently pay 500 plat to get in and all you have to do is win two rounds to get two AA cards that are selling for over 1,800 plat each plus 3 packs that more that pretty much pay for your entry fee.

israel.kendall
01-25-2015, 04:54 PM
No reason to sell tickets when they can just put the fee into the tourney itself. Doesn't make sense to me.

Saeijou
01-25-2015, 04:59 PM
the problem is... if you give access to everyone, the AA aren't that valuable anymore... look at the scrivener or the punisher... worth nothing...

if the AA is only giving out for winning (like apes), that would be a thing

Shippal
01-25-2015, 08:37 PM
They have artificially increased rarity for a select few who were playing the game at the time that they implemented the system. Just because I didn't know about the game until after KS ended, and because I wasn't even able to play the game when they were offering VIP extensions means that I am out of the competition for VIP tournaments down the road.

Giving access to more people will instead generate more revenue for the company, and the items will still hold some value, just not as much as they currently have. That's not a problem--that's a benefit for all players, because items with less value means that they circulate in the economy more often, and will be taxed by the 5% markdown of the AH more times. Economically speaking, more modularized currency (items that hold less value) is beneficial to the long-term success of the market because more people are able to contribute and participate in it. And, don't worry--there will still always be expensive things for people to buy.

AstaSyneri
01-26-2015, 01:29 AM
To pitch in with the original poster: I like the VIP tournament format. It's infuriating when you go 1-3 in a tournament, because you haven't figured out the right deck to play yet, but somebody has to lose, right? And by its nature VIP has a high number of veterans in the mix.

The tournament and prize format is just right - four rounds of Swiss, with winning tiers at two and four wins (who cares about the boosters when you can win the AA rares?). That is absolutely spot on, much more than the "only winner gets the Triple Ape" in the Set 2 release tournament (I'd clamor for "finalists get the cool card" the next time around").

Tournament times are okay - one more on Sunday morning European time would be nice. But I can make do with the times at hand, if the program continues long enough (still so many stashed VIP tickets and I can't get rid off right now, I barely manage to use the expiring ones).

Stretching the event over four months also is the right call, as it gives us an even mix of two Constructed and two Sealed weekends. Participation has already been a bit lower this months, but I am sure we'll see people step up for Sealed next months, that's been the pattern before as well, IIRC.

The selection of AA rares has also been adequate. While not necessarily the most sought after rares this round, Goremaster is very much playable. Oh well, Dino-Bird at least looks cool, even it is a bit self-destructive (can we call it Dodo?).

All in all: Kudos to CZE for designing a well-rounded tournament scheme for this VIP. I look forward to the next 12 months of this! Already booked the summer vacation in order not to interfere with the VIP tournaments ;-)

Valoisian
01-26-2015, 03:58 PM
I'd also like to voice my desire for a way for current non-VIPs to participate in the VIP tournaments. I feel that I've been pretty supportive of this game from the get go. I participated in the Kickstarter and even jumped on a 3-month subscription of VIP before the tournaments were implemented. The only error I made was letting VIP lapse unknowing that it was going to go away. Now, each month when the VIP tournaments roll around, I feel like an outsider to our community.

Good thing that I'm a big boy and it doesn't bother me TOO much. Still, I think that making things INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE is the way to go with a game still in its infancy.
jz

Xexist
01-26-2015, 05:13 PM
I'd also like to voice my desire for a way for current non-VIPs to participate in the VIP tournaments. I feel that I've been pretty supportive of this game from the get go. I participated in the Kickstarter and even jumped on a 3-month subscription of VIP before the tournaments were implemented. The only error I made was letting VIP lapse unknowing that it was going to go away. Now, each month when the VIP tournaments roll around, I feel like an outsider to our community.

Good thing that I'm a big boy and it doesn't bother me TOO much. Still, I think that making things INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE is the way to go with a game still in its infancy.
jz

Unless something was promised as exclusive, as VIP was. going forward though, I agree.

toaster4k
01-26-2015, 05:23 PM
I'd also like to voice my desire for a way for current non-VIPs to participate in the VIP tournaments. I feel that I've been pretty supportive of this game from the get go. I participated in the Kickstarter and even jumped on a 3-month subscription of VIP before the tournaments were implemented. The only error I made was letting VIP lapse unknowing that it was going to go away. Now, each month when the VIP tournaments roll around, I feel like an outsider to our community.

Good thing that I'm a big boy and it doesn't bother me TOO much. Still, I think that making things INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE is the way to go with a game still in its infancy.
jz

I am in the same situation, except that I guess I am more bitter about it then you.
Did everything I could, cept guess VIP would stop, and I am now denied sweet AA card.

it suck

Xexist
01-26-2015, 05:29 PM
I am in the same situation, except that I guess I am more bitter about it then you.
Did everything I could, cept guess VIP would stop, and I am now denied sweet AA card.

it suck

Not denied at all! You can win one on the AH 100% of the time if you have enough plat.

ossuary
01-26-2015, 05:31 PM
Everyone had the option to purchase another year of VIP for plat. This option was available to everyone, was announced in advance, and was left open for a week longer than they said it would be. Even if you were lapsed, you could still have bought it. You chose not to. That's not CZE's fault. Don't expect them to open these tournaments up to everyone right now, they've said they would be exclusive, and they're not going to go back on their word. You had the chance, the same as everyone else, and chose not to buy in / buy back in.

Zophie
01-26-2015, 05:32 PM
Everyone had the option to purchase another year of VIP for plat. This option was available to everyone, was announced in advance, and was left open for a week longer than they said it would be. Even if you were lapsed, you could still have bought it. You chose not to. That's not CZE's fault. Don't expect them to open these tournaments up to everyone right now, they've said they would be exclusive, and they're not going to go back on their word. You had the chance, the same as everyone else, and chose not to buy in / buy back in.

Grats on your 6,000th post Oss :D

ossuary
01-26-2015, 05:34 PM
Grats on your 6,000th post Oss :D

hah, didn't even notice. Thanks. ;)

Saeijou
01-26-2015, 09:15 PM
hah, didn't even notice. Thanks. ;)

did you had a match vs a dev? Oo

ossuary
01-26-2015, 09:32 PM
Nope. I suppose I should probably challenge somebody or something. If I build a Royal Den Mother deck and challenge Kyle, technically we'd finally have that bear fight? Seems like a worthwhile goal. :D

Gwaer
01-26-2015, 09:56 PM
Do not even think about giving kyle a wimpy cop out like that.

israel.kendall
01-26-2015, 10:03 PM
Everyone had the option to purchase another year of VIP for plat. This option was available to everyone, was announced in advance, and was left open for a week longer than they said it would be. Even if you were lapsed, you could still have bought it. You chose not to. That's not CZE's fault. Don't expect them to open these tournaments up to everyone right now, they've said they would be exclusive, and they're not going to go back on their word. You had the chance, the same as everyone else, and chose not to buy in / buy back in.

So technically everyone had the option to purchase the additional year. But, not everyone was notified of this option, nor of the ending of VIP. I was taking a break from the game when all this happened, but also had VIP with automatic renewal. It might have been nice to shoot out an email or something letting me know my VIP subscription would be cancelled, and letting me know that I had a limited window of opportunity to extend it.

If others were allowed buy-in to VIP for tournaments now (not the VIP packs), those who have already bought in would lose absolutely nothing. This was not a kickstarter exclusive or anything.

KingGabriel
01-26-2015, 10:03 PM
Do not even think about giving kyle a wimpy cop out like that.

I still want an AA of Survival of the Fittest with art of Kyle fighting the Living Totem AA

Gwaer
01-26-2015, 10:39 PM
I'd rather watch kyle fight a bear with a living totem hat on.

Xexist
01-26-2015, 10:57 PM
If others were allowed buy-in to VIP for tournaments now (not the VIP packs), those who have already bought in would lose absolutely nothing.

Wrong

ossuary
01-27-2015, 05:38 AM
I was taking a break from the game when all this happened

Lack of attention on your part does not constitute failure on anyone else's part. Update emails went out every week to all Kickstarter backers. Those updates contained the information. If you chose not to read them, it's nobody's problem but your own. Stop trying to make up reasons somebody else messed up. You had a chance; you missed it. That's all there is to it.

BKCshah
01-27-2015, 07:03 AM
Hmm, not every player active in the game is a kickstarter backer. I do not know if there is/was a newsletter sent out to players who got codes elsewhere.

If I had bought in to VIP at any level and not been notified separately about this policy change, I would be pretty upset.

ossuary
01-27-2015, 07:18 AM
The Friday update and the KS email are the same thing (the KS weekly update is just the first paragraph of the Friday update, with a link to it). Again, failure to read the published material is not the fault of the publisher, it's the fault of the consumer. If you choose to take a break from the game, that's fine, but you can't expect special treatment for showing back up and finding out you missed something because you decided not to pay attention. It was still your decision, and you still have to live with the consequences. It's nobody else's fault, and nobody else's problem.

Far too many people in this world are FAR too quick to do anything it takes to absolve themselves from any responsibility for their own actions.

BKCshah
01-27-2015, 07:56 AM
I looked through my emails. I didn't see one about the VIP changes. I did find posts on the homepage about it.

https://hextcg.com/vip-program-update/ (8-29-14) VIP going to be discontinued
https://hextcg.com/friday-update/ (8-30-14) No mention of it. Feel good story. My opinion is that the other is more critical to include on some level.
https://hextcg.com/vip-program-update-2/ (9-8-14)
https://hextcg.com/vip-program-update-2-0/ (10-13-14) End of VIP Purchase post

Supposedly something went out to people having re-occurring subs being cancelled which caused some confusion (per 9-8 post). My feelings are that this should have been directly sent to every person with an account. Also, this was a major change which should have been captured at least once in a weekly update (if it was apologies). Posts on the homepage in beta are nice for dedicated fans, but there is a larger customer base that doesn't wait eagerly for any minor reveal. ** I say this as someone who was fully aware of the changes being made.

I feel like Hex has pretty big rift between KS and non-KS backers. Hopefully that goes away eventually.

israel.kendall
01-27-2015, 12:12 PM
Lack of attention on your part does not constitute failure on anyone else's part. Update emails went out every week to all Kickstarter backers. Those updates contained the information. If you chose not to read them, it's nobody's problem but your own. Stop trying to make up reasons somebody else messed up. You had a chance; you missed it. That's all there is to it.

I do not delete ANY emails. I did not receive any sort of information about this as verified by searching email. This is not failure on my part in any way.

Zophie
01-27-2015, 12:20 PM
Pro tip for the future: You can add http://hextcg.com/feed/ to your favorite RSS reader (maybe even one that supports email notifications/digests) and always keep up to date on the front page posts.

israel.kendall
01-27-2015, 12:50 PM
Pro tip for the future: You can add http://hextcg.com/feed/ to your favorite RSS reader (maybe even one that supports email notifications/digests) and always keep up to date on the front page posts.

A small portion of players use RSS (and RSS is in great decline in general). 100% of players here have and use email. This pro tip really makes no sense.

I still receive major updates from some other games that I no longer even play. And I would say that I pretty much always have received notification of the cancellation of a recurring subscription. The lack of an email update here was in poor form. I also understand that to some people HEX can do no wrong no matter what they do.

Zophie
01-27-2015, 12:58 PM
A small portion of players use RSS (and RSS is in great decline in general). 100% of players here have and use email. This pro tip really makes no sense.

I still receive major updates from some other games that I no longer even play. And I would say that I pretty much always have received notification of the cancellation of a recurring subscription. The lack of an email update here was in poor form. I also understand that to some people HEX can do no wrong no matter what they do.

I just said it was a tip for the future, not implying that you should have had this already set up. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, but I love my RSS feeds so... :p

israel.kendall
01-27-2015, 01:25 PM
I just said it was a tip for the future, not implying that you should have had this already set up. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, but I love my RSS feeds so... :p

Yeah, I might do this actually (even though I feel I shouldn't have to). Can you suggest one that is quick and simple to set up for an email notification? I don't want to have to download anything, just would like maybe a quick web based thing I can set up.

Also, now that I think about it, I did not receive any email about set 2 releasing either. I'm not sure I even remember how I found out about it. But set 2 release is what brought me back to the game from my break. Email updates for things like that can bring old players back, and is only a good thing for the game. I have been tempted back to many a game after getting an update about expansions or major new features. Eve Online for example. I no longer play, but they often tempt me with emails about their new features and expansions. They even email reminding me that I am a multi-billionaire, and suggest coming back to spend my space riches.

BKCshah
01-27-2015, 01:27 PM
I will take your space riches if you don't want them anymore :P

israel.kendall
01-27-2015, 01:33 PM
I will take your space riches if you don't want them anymore :P

Lol, ok, actually next time they offer me a temporary coming back offer I could redownload the game and log in an send them to you. I also have ships and other assets scattered across space. Mostly within 20 or so jumps from Molden Heath if I remember correctly. I don't think I will ever return, so yeah I'll send ya the stuffs if I get a chance.

Zophie
01-27-2015, 01:35 PM
Yeah, I might do this actually (even though I feel I shouldn't have to). Can you suggest one that is quick and simple to set up for an email notification? I don't want to have to download anything, just would like maybe a quick web based thing I can set up.

You can use Blogtrottr (https://blogtrottr.com/) for setting up simple email notifications for specific RSS feeds.

I also like to use Feedly (https://feedly.com/) for aggregating all the different news feeds I'm interested in. It's handy because I can use it through both my browser and an Android app on my tablet. I put all my favorite gaming site's RSS feeds on there to help me keep up to date on stuff.

israel.kendall
01-27-2015, 01:37 PM
Cool, thanks Zophie.

Warrender
01-27-2015, 02:27 PM
<3 Feedly RIP Google Reader :(

ossuary
01-27-2015, 04:50 PM
If you liked Google Reader, then check out http://theoldreader.com - it's the spiritual successor (and it rocks). I never have to ask "Cory Jones, are you blogging today?" because on those extremely rare occasions when he DOES, TOR tells me (and gives me the full post). :)

Zophie
01-27-2015, 05:45 PM
If you liked Google Reader, then check out http://theoldreader.com - it's the spiritual successor (and it rocks). I never have to ask "Cory Jones, are you blogging today?" because on those extremely rare occasions when he DOES, TOR tells me (and gives me the full post). :)

Oh nice, I will definitely check this out. I used Google Reader religiously and was quite sad to see it go. I ended up using Feedly because they were able to import my Reader subscriptions easily before it shut down, and they have a tablet app too which was key. At first glance it appears this Old Reader has an app too so this looks quite promising as a potential alternative to Feedly, thanks!

wolzarg
01-29-2015, 10:33 AM
If anyone can have a buyin to the vip i want the same to the kickstarter tiers. Sailed ship and all that stuff.

Xenavire
01-29-2015, 12:34 PM
If anyone can have a buyin to the vip i want the same to the kickstarter tiers. Sailed ship and all that stuff.

Not at all the same scenario - VIP is a feature that has been pulled, with it's fate being under review (with no idea when it will come back, if it does.) The KS was a one-time deal, and that was always absolute. VIP was nothing of the sort.

But no, they shouldn't open up buy-in's to the current program anymore. Only a modified version of the program.