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MStreva89
02-10-2015, 11:49 AM
Below is my tier list for overall DC DBG regardless of game version or synergy with other Characters. It is made for a 1v1 2-Character Draft format.

Tier 0:
Cyborg Crisis - Completely overpowered in the ease of triggering his Character effect and how powerful and game changing it is. Banned in all games, no explanation needed.

Shazam! Crisis - Just when you thought Shazam! couldn't get stronger, they make a baby clone of Cyborg Crisis and here he is. Again according to the explanation above, banned in all games.

Tier 1:
Aquaman - A Character with an amazing early game as he can easily start making strong plays in the first few turns due to his stacking effect. However what truly sets his as a top tier Character is his ability to combo with cards from the Line-Up by stacking and drawing them or for use with other effects.

Shazam! - Odds are that most cards gained via his effect will be 4 cost or higher, therefore he is constantly going par or getting things on the low. Combined with his ability to place them on the top of his deck to use that turn or the following turn, he is absolutely bananas. In 1v1 his greatest asset is being able to lock down the Line-Up and force his opponent to pick from their while he snatches off the Main Deck. The only game version where this Character struggles is in Forever Evil, but otherwise he's a true savage.

Martian Manhunter - While there are many Characters that give +Power, none give as much for so little as the Martian Manhunter. Where Hawkman and Black Canary give +2 Power for 2 Heroes/Villains, he gives +3 Power for playing just 2, yet he can grant up to +6 Power for only 4 cards played and doesn't require a single card type to be effective. This sets him apart as Super-Heroes/Villains are always available in each game version.

The Flash - A lot of players don't recognize or respect the ability to go first and that's what really gives this guy a power boost over many other Characters. Not to mention getting a free draw whenever a card effect draws is a great bonus that is non-card type specific.

Batman (12) - While this Character does rely on the Line-Up to be at his best, the ease of triggering his ability in the mid-game just makes him strong. Having ~5 options to use every turn he triggers, he really can combo well with just near anything. Many times he can use the card and then purchase it due to the bonus it granted. Not to be underestimated.

White Lantern Deadman - This Character is just scary looking. Every turn you can look at your opponent's hand and see the potential of his next turn, which can grant insight into his plays or options. Not to mention you can steal the use of one of those cards at the same time, which means that any great card your opponent buys, is really yours to use whenever he draws it. The low cost of 2 different colored cards and the ability to trigger it at any time during your turn really sets this guy apart from the rest as a true thug in 1v1.

Tier 2:
Wonder Woman - My go to Character in Classic. Aside from Forever Evil, this Character crushes games by providing a player with a stronger next turn every time she buys Villains. With the availability of Super-Villains, this Character never is missing a trigger for her power and anything in the Line-Up is just icing on the cake.

Lex Luthor - Wonder Woman's Forever Evil based counterpart. For every reason Wonder Woman is amazing in Classic and Heroes Unite, that's what Lex is in Forever Evil. Especially when it comes to chaining the Super-Heroes every turn.

Green Arrow - The Arrow grants a huge power spike at the cost of a Punch, being able to reduce the entire collection of Villains by 2. Not to mention being able to reduce Super-Heroes in Forever Evil, this Character can easily start spiking at an early part of the game with the right Line-Up, he can definitely provide a powerful bonus for players trying to maximize their purchases in the Villain department.

Crisis Batman - A true terror in 1v1, at the cost of playing 2 Equipments he can shred a player's current hand and reduce the count by 1 with the next draw. Aside from counterpicking Harley Quinn, nothing really stops the Bat when it comes to causing pain.

Cyborg - Built in Batcave and a +1 Power bonus for playing a Super Power each turn, there is no downside to this powerhouse. This is a standard bonus granting Character with no theme or combo concept other than just dropping high numbers and getting the free plus.

Harley Quinn - Where this Character is strong is in Forever Evil, but what makes her a truly great pick is when combined with any Character that discards like Batgirl, Green Arrow, or White Lantern Deadman. There is no downside to her great effect and even has a built in bonus defense vs opponent based discard effects. Many players don't consider her a high pick or ban, because alone she is not powerful, but when a Character makes several others MUCH stronger, it's easier to deal with 1 threat than multiple.

Indigo-1 - A slightly stranger, but still great version of Cyborg. She really thrives once you start grabbing the Super-Villain/Hero and triggering her ability off the power plays, only to make them bigger. No downside to her, just the same as Cyborg.

Saint Walker - It's scary how fast this Character can clear out Starter cards once he grabs a couple of Hero cards. Expect your opponent fall behind with the speed he can clear the Starters out. Combine him with Wonder Woman Crisis to make a super consistent early game ramp and power grabbing team. Don't underestimate turning Heroes into Nth Metals.

Starfire Crisis - Wonder Woman Crisis made a huge impact with her release as you could clear out Vulnerabilities and also counter Bizarro. I think Starfire Crisis takes it a step further with her ability to clear out Punches as well for buying Super Powers from the Line-Up. Boasting this great ability, be afraid of how fast this Character will ramp up to high powers.

Tier 3:
Wonder Woman Crisis - What many players would view as a decent Character, really surprises everyone with her ability to thin the deck of Vulnerabilities and get right to the juicy power cards. Not to mention her amazing counter-pick status to the Bizarro + Aquaman Crisis combo.

Sinestro - Here's a Character that really only shines in 2 scenarios: Forever Evil and with Black Adam. The big thing is, either one makes him a super threat and that's why he's worth being considered a great pick. Can see play in other sets, but with the lack of VP granting cards and Attacks, he really just shows off more in Forever Evil.

Black Adam - This guy has the unique ability to trade Kicks or other Super Powers into 1 VP and a draw. Combine him with Sinestro for easy access to the extra drew via Sinestro's second effect. But more importantly, he can buy Kicks, then thin them out while maintaining the VP bonus of having bought those Kicks. Truly a powerful Character.

Joker (12) - The Clown Prince of Crime comes pretty strong here as a "baby Shazam!". With the ease of having Kicks for Super Powers and Super-Villains for the Villain aspect, this Character can see a lot of use when he starts using the Main Deck and checking it for potentially harmful cards to hit the Line-Up on his opponent's turn.

Kyle Rayner - Once you hit mid game with this guy, he becomes an every turn Batmobile. Now while it may not seem like much, it can really be a powerful ability when you start to cycle out useless hands into more powerful ones and start strong combos. In Forever Evil he can keep looping certain cards by forcing shuffles and in Heroes Unite he can turn a dead hand into a combo heavy hitter by building a discard pile. Don't count the man with 7 rings out.

Red Tornado Crisis - Simply put, scary. Without a lot of testing done yet, it's all theory, but so far this guy looks like a menace with his ability to dump deck to discard pile on him or his opponent. His ability to set up your combos or nuke your opponent's combos is staggering when it comes to a Character effect. Once more testing is done we will see if he is higher or lower.

Tier 4:
Booster Gold, Bane, Nightwing, Batman (9), Green Lantern, Starfire, Animal Man, Black Manta

Tier 5:
The Flash Crisis, Black Canary, Swamp Thing, Bizarro, Batgirl, Batgirl Crisis

Tier 6:
Hawkman, Superman, Robin, Martian Manhunter Crisis, Batman, Deathstroke, Constantine, Star Sapphire, Green Lantern Crisis, Hawkman Crisis

Tier 7:
Red Tornado, Zatanna Zatara, Superman Crisis, Joker (9), Black Canary Crisis, Red Lantern Supergirl, Aquaman Crisis, Nightwing Crisis, Booster Gold Crisis

Let me know what you all think and if you would place a Character higher or lower on the list based on your own personal experiences or combos you've used. (Obviously synergy with another Character can place someone higher, such as Aquaman Crisis who doesn't exist on the list without Bizarro).

List will be updated more to include full explanations for all Characters.

IAmTheGreat
02-10-2015, 02:35 PM
It really depends on what set(s) youre using, but my friends found a solid consensus on the best being Cyborg, Shazam, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman. Not including Crisis/Rivals.

MStreva89
02-11-2015, 09:00 AM
Set definitely has a huge factor in all this. But without a doubt, you're right on those 4. However something a lot of people take for granted is The Flash's going first ability. Not a lot of people realize that if you go first, you get the opening flop options which is 5 cards as opposed to your opponent who gets your leftovers and potentially one more from the Main Deck. Going first could be the difference between getting that Soul Taker Sword or watching your opponent snatch it up.

Harley Quinn is just plain dumb when combined with either Green Arrow or Batgirl (the former being a bigger threat). Plus she is a nuclear deterrent to Batman Crisis who can be a force of nature if proc'd every turn.

Shazam! is definitely the scariest in my opinion just due to how lucky one can get. No joke, we had a local 1v1 tournament and my regular opponent (we generally go 50/50 on games) is playing this girl and she lets him have Shazam! and Constantine because she just didn't know the combo (I taught him how well they work together since Constantine can use and destroy bad cards that Shazam! might land you). Turn 1 he generates 4 Power and uses Shazam!, gains World's Mightiest Mortal... game instantly ended because now he had full control of the Main Deck and Line-Up from Turn 2 on. Easily the most disgusting play ever.

vbui0803
02-11-2015, 10:22 PM
So my friends and I play extremely competitively, to the point where we don't play for fun much anymore just when betting. To this end, we've come up with a tier list regarding which Characters to pick when playing. We play draft mode where we each ban 3 Characters, then we have first pick take 1 Character, second pick take 2 Characters and first pick takes his 2nd Character. This list we've made is based on this format and we have found it to be pretty spot on. This list was made prior to the release of info for Crisis 2 and we are planning to update it when we actually have it in our hands. This list also does not specify order in each tier nor does it incorporate your opponent's picks or the game version you are using (obviously Deathstroke is better in Forever Evil than he is in Classic).

0) Cyborg Crisis BANNED

1) Shazam!, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Harley Quinn, The Flash, Batman (12)

2) Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor, Green Arrow, Crisis Batman, Cyborg, Joker (12)

3) Batgirl, Wonder Woman Crisis, Sinestro, Black Adam, Bizarro

4) Booster Gold, Swamp Thing, Deathstroke, Constantine, Bane, Nightwing, Batman (9)

5) Black Manta, Animal Man, Starfire, Green Lantern, The Flash Crisis, Black Canary, Joker (9)

6) Hawkman, Superman, Robin, Martian Manhunter Crisis, Batman, Aquaman Crisis

7) Red Tornado, Zatanna Zatara, Superman Crisis

Let me know what you all think and if you would place a Character higher or lower on the list based on your own personal experiences or combos you've used. (Obviously synergy with another Character can place someone higher, such as Aquaman Crisis who doesn't exist on the list without Bizarro)

Interesting tier list. I do not include the rival and crisis characters though since I use those specifically for just those version of the dc deck game. I did have some questions/comment though on this tier ranking. I am surprised that harley quinn and ranked higher than sinestro and black adam, plus that they are in 3rd level, did not expect that. And how can constantine rank higher than superman, hawkman, and batman. I consider him worst character to use. I do think some of these characters are in good spot, but I disagree with some ranking such as green lantern should not be in level 5. But if anyone has more opinions please let me know. Maybe I will create my own list soon.

destroth
02-12-2015, 04:00 AM
Interesting tier list. I do not include the rival and crisis characters though since I use those specifically for just those version of the dc deck game. I did have some questions/comment though on this tier ranking. I am surprised that harley quinn and ranked higher than sinestro and black adam, plus that they are in 3rd level, did not expect that. And how can constantine rank higher than superman, hawkman, and batman. I consider him worst character to use. I do think some of these characters are in good spot, but I disagree with some ranking such as green lantern should not be in level 5. But if anyone has more opinions please let me know. Maybe I will create my own list soon.

I believe he is ranking base on a 2-hero variant gameplay, since he specifically mentioned shazam! and constantine combo.

Well to me in a 1 v 1, both shazam and constantine may not be in the top tier, shazam is highly dependent on luck, if you keep gaining a not-so-good card and force it into your deck, your basically playing with a lost in hand. And constantine need destruction card to increase the probability of not getting a starter when revealing card from your deck.

All heroes from the base set are technically very strong in all other sets as well. Certain heroes/villians who perform rather different depending on sets are like Harley Quinn (she can be really strong in HU due to location being able to discard a card), Deathstroke (sux in set without much destroy, could be strong in HU due to sonic siren). Red Tornado, Animal Man, Cyborg works very well in FE since elemental woman instantly grants them their bonus, especially for Red Tornado, she just maintain in the discard and thats a +2 every turn for Red Tornado).

Anyway, my list are as below divided into sets

Base Set:
(1): Animal Man, Martian Manhunter, Red Tornado, Aquaman, Black Canary
(2): Hawkman, Saint Walker, Bane, Booster Gold, Batman
(3): The Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Superman, Cyborg
(4): Indigo-1, Lex Luthor, Night Wing, Kyle Rayner, Black Manta
(5): Swamp Thing, Green Arrow, Batgirl, Starfire, Shazam!
(6): White Lantern Deadman, Black Adam, Harley Quinn, Sinestro, Bizarro
(7): Robin, Zatanna, Star Sapphire, Constantine, Red Lantern Super Girl
(8): Deathstroke

HU:
(1): Animal Man, Martian Manhunter, Red Tornado, Black Canary, Hawkman
(2): Saint Walker, Aquaman, Booster Gold, Batman, Wonder Woman
(3): Green Lantern, Bane, Superman, Cyborg, The Flash
(4): Indigo-1, Kyle Raynor, Starfire, Night Wing, Lex Luthor
(5): Harley Quinn, Batgirl, Shazam!, Green Arrow, Constantine
(6): White Lantern Deadman, Black Adam, Sinestro, Black Manta, Robin
(7): Swamp Thing, Bizarro, Star Sapphire, Zatanna, Red Lantern Super Girl
(8): Deathstroke

FE:
(1): Animal Man, Martian Manhunter, Superman, Black Adam, Green Lantern
(2): Aquaman, Bane, Black Canary, Hawkman, Red Tornado
(3): Cyborg, Indigo-1, The Flash, Batman, Night Wing
(4): Sinestro, Saint Walker, Booster Gold, Bizarro, Kyle Raynor
(5): Starfire, Black Manta, Lex Luthor, Deathstroke, Red Lantern Super Girl
(6): Batgirl, Constantine, Harley Quinn, White Lantern Deadman, Swamp Thing
(7): Wonder Woman, Robin, Zatanna, Shazam!, Green Arrow
(8): Star Sapphire

MStreva89
02-12-2015, 07:28 AM
vbui0803, you're right that I stated it is based on a 2 Character format and combos is what rules this style of play. As I stated before, Constantine + Shazam! combo is literally the best in every game version due to being able to snatch up the top of the Main Deck and stack it to the top of your deck for easy access. Now the benefit of Constantine is should you get a card like Batarang that you aren't interested in keeping, you can use his effect to use and destroy that card, thus gaining power and getting rid of the useless card at the same time. This allows you to potentially net another card off the Main Deck with Shazam!'s power. Believe me when I say that you can't underestimate the power of luck when it comes to Shazam!.

destroth, first thing is that Harley Quinn does not benefit from the Locations that "discard" in Heroes Unite as Matt Hyra stated that the card discarded for her effect must be from hand. The cause for Harley Quinn to be ranked so high is because we play with Batman Crisis who can be extremely powerful if he starts to net the Equipment cards he needs, but Harley Quinn completely counters him by allowing you to maintain your hand size regardless. Also Harley Quinn when combo'd with Green Arrow allows you to have both Green Arrow trigger and draw a card off of discarding a Punch, which is a huge power spike in the early game (buying stronger Villains early in the game). Not to mention her bonus when you use Defense cards on opponent's turns or just her deterrent to Attacks like Constructs of Fear, Bane and Yellow Lantern Power Ring.

I think your placing of Red Tornado is way too high, since he really doesn't benefit at all until mid-late game, at which point you shouldn't need a +2 Power. I think your concept puts way too much emphasize on gaining Power than it does pulling off combos or using the powerful effects of Characters to gain bonuses. How do you justify Black Canary's +1 Power per different Villain played over Wonder Woman's extra card just for buying those Villains? You have to take in account the concept that you're shuffling your deck faster with Wonder Woman, therefore getting to those cards you bought faster, while helping your hand in the event of an attack, since you have a higher hand count for defending or for dealing with a negative effect and not suffering as much. The same applies for Lex Luthor over Hawkman, the exact same argument can be had. I mean and you place Superman on the same level as Martian Manhunter, which is a horrible miscalculation. Martian Manhunter for an average of 4 cards (2 Villains and 2 Heroes) can net you +6 Power where as Superman would need 4 different Super Powers on a single turn to grant you +4 Power. My suggestion is try not to look at Character cards as just a few bonus Power, but rather as a deck theme to work off of that can truly influence the game. I believe card advantage is significantly more important than Power advantage and that's why Shazam! will always be picked over Superman any and every day of the week.

Again, my list is not game version specific, but an overall view of the game. Obviously certain Characters do better in different game versions. I would never pick Swamp Thing in Heroes Unite, but in Classic he's amazing due to the raw power of the Locations. Bizarro is unplayable for the most part in Heroes Unite and Classic, but in Forever Evil he's ban worthy because of his strength.

While I agree with some of your statements in terms of how I ranked my list, I don't agree with the bulk of your statements because I feel like they just don't grasp the power of the abilities of Characters, rather you just see Power or no Power and that's not going to get you a large advantage over a combo concept.

destroth
02-12-2015, 08:37 AM
In base game most of the card technically have high power and that I do agree that hero that + 2 might not gain a big advantage .... Red tornado however do not just rely on the +2... Technically for me playing a red tornado I will buy card that would give a variety of type to my discard and buy cards that could bring cards back from the discard pile back into my hand...as that being said red tornado can be more flexible in purposely buying cards which benefit your opponent with very little drawback ... Sometime in a game it's not just about trying to get to the combo you are working toward to or just getting pure power ... Screwing your opponent plays a big portion toward winning .... That's why character like green lantern , animal man, red tornado is great as you can hardly screw them over....

As for getting power, a good example of the importance of getting the additional +1+2 power can be seen in FE gameplay

In FE, it's not common for u to get high power at the start, that's why even an additional power of +1 or +2 will give a very high advantage to get the initial few high cost cards and especially the superhero the flash ....

I rank them mainly base on probability on how the game can favor a character
How dependent they are on certain combo , the more dependent they are the easier to screw them over ... Like in FE I would just buy man bat serum and destroy it to prevent sinestro or black Adam to get it ... Or in that case any vp farmers.

In summary I rank them base in these points:
1. The ease of using their ability to gain an advantage
2. The potential to screw another opponent
3. The dependency of the characters toward specific combos

Nevertheless, if you are playing as two characters, it will give u more variability ... Or if u play 1v1 is pretty much difficult to screw your opponents as you can't buy all their cards....

We mostly play 3-4 players .... Having said that it is also more fair to rank the characters not just in a 1v1 game ... Batman crisis for example could only allow u to choose only one player ... In a 3-4 player game, he may be less effective

Also if your format is 2 hero 1v1, you should at least rank them in pairs , such as shaman + Constantine (i do agree this is one of the craziest pair-up, u cannot screw him up from buying their cards, cause there is just no specific card they actually need to shine, and they could easily just get from the main deck when the line-up somehow have shit cards only) ... Aquaman crisis + bizarro etc.

destroth
02-12-2015, 08:52 AM
Sorry for double posting ,

Just want to highlight Harley Quinn ...

You mentioned about defenses being discards... It's true that she gets a draw thus maintaining her hand , or even better in base set and HU where def card is more powerful... But honestly at most time I get def to def against first appearance ATk from superheroes and Villians, which she does not get an advantage over ... As for ATk from players , specifically on those that make u discard a card

When she is in game , I will leave cards like bane yellow ring on the line-up , and it's not like she would gain a whole lots of advantage of I allow her to purchase bane or yellow ring, maybe in FE I would snatch the construct of fear as it is crazy!

So if she does get bane, I probably ended up discarding a vulnerability or punches if I do not already have a defense. And that is probably once in how many turn she plays? If nobody does anything to her , she technically have no ability... (But that can be a good thing in FE, probably power drain will not hit you)

On the contrary, I didn't know she doesn't work with HU location , man .. Her ability does say as long as she discards a card... From or not from hand... But we actually played her quite often ... The HU location while it is really good for her but then again, how often does it appear in early game when it matters or will your opponent actually let you purchase it, knowing that, that's the card to your victory... If I play aquaman I might just simply buy a kick and put it on top of my deck so I can probably purchase it the next turn ... Well all still depends on when during the game the card appear...

MStreva89
02-12-2015, 10:56 AM
The reason I don't rate them in pairs is because with the way we draft Characters, you are not guaranteed your combo ever. When we ban Characters, sometimes we find it more efficient to ban their 2nd pick rather than banning their 1st pick in order to bait out better picks for ourselves (ex. both Aquaman and Shazam! are up for first pick, last ban is used on Constantine since Shazam! is a better pick so he would be picked first, thus we get Aquaman and he does not have the option of Constantine). So it's hard to rate the duos in this game because there are just too many ways to prevent it or make a follow-up pick. You can replace Shazam!'s partner Constantine with Bane, who can destroy a worthless card on your next turn or with Starfire who can sometimes just draw that combo card immediately to continue the plays.

I agree that Classic is very power based as my friends and I don't consider the Line-Up very fruitful since the Villains are cheap and strong, without having deadly First Appearances to mess us up. However, I cannot in good mind take a Red Tornado over almost any other Character, since he requires several turns to start powering up. I better pick than Red Tornado would be to get Animal Man and Black Manta, this combo almost guarantees a Turn 3 Ra's Al Ghul buy (buy a card Turn 1 and 2 that grant +2 Power while being different card types, both put to the bottom with Black Manta providing you with 3 card types on Turn 3 for Animal Man, provided you have 2 Punches). I've played that combo many times to great effect, because then the Super-Villains will just continually fall into my lap turn after turn since Animal Man will help me edge out the power needed to buy them.

As far as Harley Quinn goes, remember, she works with Green Arrow and Batgirl, that says a lot. Think about how fast you can cycle thru your deck with Batgirl and Harley Quinn combined in the early game? You can buy a card Turn 1 and already shuffle it in to potentially draw it, then draw 2 more cards Turn 2, giving you a high chance to draw the card you bought just the turn prior. Now imagine if that card is Soul Taker Sword or Nth Metal, which is gonna help you thin out your deck which you already are going thru at the speed of light since Character selection. This is why Harley Quinn is a huge threat, she just gives too much power to other Characters.

Now with the introduction of these 6 new Characters they've already revealed, I think that the game is really going to get crazy with White Lantern Deadman who can play cards from an opponent's hand. I'm very excited to get my hands on this new Crisis 2 expansion and I hope Matt Hyra gives us a date soon. (Real soon! It's my birthday tomorrow!)

destroth
02-12-2015, 05:05 PM
Hey happy birthday :)

Well that's why I mention I rank them not just base on a 1v1 game but a 3-4 players or even a 5 players game ... And also for solo hero game rather than combined hero... I don't firestorm matrix them together :p .... Probably in base I wouldn't use red tornado, but in HU it's Discard pile eccentric, red tornado can easily pull stuff out of it more effectively.... And they aren't that slow when they can just buy anything to quickly get that +2 which U need to get the 7 cost cards which would then give you a boost to out play your opponent ...

MStreva89
02-16-2015, 08:31 AM
So with some testing and some more games played (nearly played 20 games this weekend against my friends), I've switched the Tier List around a bit to reflect some results. I've also placed the new Characters that were revealed into the tiers according to theory (they have not been tested). The first post Tier List has the changes. The most notable so far is White Lantern Deadman. He can singe-handedly swing the balance of power away from the player with the better picks and buys, to the player with Deadman. He is expected to completely throw the game is disarray as he shouldn't merit a ban, but yet will be first picked. Also the biggest thing to notice about him is he is the only Tier 1 Character that doesn't truly have an amazing early game unless your opponent does. Not to mention his ability to completely control a game by checking your opponent's hand nearly every turn.

Vaughnilla619
02-17-2015, 12:19 PM
We have come up with a tier list a while ago even before the forever evil set came out and i felt that it was fair, so i will share that with you guys and ill go ahead and just add in the FE cards too. Also before you go on to reading the list just know that this will be based off of character cards by themselves and have no affect of if they were paired with another card or not. Also I do not own Starfire so I will not put her in this list. This is strictly from gameplay experiences.

TIER 1
Martian Manhunter
Batman
Superman
Green Lantern

TIER 2
Hawkman
Canary
Lex Luther
Wonder Woman
Nightwing
Cyborg
Aquaman
Sinestro
Black Adam

TIER 3
Batgirl
Harley Quinn
The Flash
Booster Gold
Animal Man
Bizarro
Shazam

TIER 4
Green Arrow
Zatana
Black Manta
Bane
Swamp Thing (this is for 1v1 matchups. Obviously It goes up with more players)

TIER 5
Robin
Constantine
Red Tornado
Deathstroke

LRoq617
02-18-2015, 08:38 AM
We have come up with a tier list a while ago even before the forever evil set came out and i felt that it was fair, so i will share that with you guys and ill go ahead and just add in the FE cards too. Also before you go on to reading the list just know that this will be based off of character cards by themselves and have no affect of if they were paired with another card or not. Also I do not own Starfire so I will not put her in this list. This is strictly from gameplay experiences.

TIER 1
Martian Manhunter
Batman
Superman
Green Lantern

TIER 2
Hawkman
Canary
Lex Luther
Wonder Woman
Nightwing
Cyborg
Aquaman
Sinestro
Black Adam

TIER 3
Batgirl
Harley Quinn
The Flash
Booster Gold
Animal Man
Bizarro
Shazam

TIER 4
Green Arrow
Zatana
Black Manta
Bane
Swamp Thing (this is for 1v1 matchups. Obviously It goes up with more players)

TIER 5
Robin
Constantine
Red Tornado
Deathstroke

Definitely looking to sound off here a bit.

TIER 1: Lots to discuss here. Personally, I don't find Martin Manhunter to be nearly as good as he was when only the original core set was available. He's very powerful, but he lacks in consistency compared to characters that do similar things like Hawkman and Black Canary. His only upside is that he has slightly less variance since he can benefit from both card types. Unfortunately the inherent downside is that he pretty much has to be committed to one of them in order to hit the jackpot. Batman is also not a high rank character, and never has been. Anything he can do can be done better by at least 2 other characters (Cyborg, Nightwing), and what's worse is that playable Equipment tends to be drafted very high, especially the cheaper stuff, so he rarely seems to get what he wants unless he's playing against another character that's committed to their card type, like the aforementioned Hawkman or Canary. Superman is arguable only because of how consistent he is, but he tends to falter in the midgame if he isn't able to ramp into absurd bombs like Super Strength or Shazam. Green Lantern is one I would never argue. He has very little variance and a very consistent ability beyond turn 4-ish. His only real downside seems to be that he requires trashing ability a bit more than other characters since Starters are so awful for him. I also know that you haven't played her, but this is also where I would rank Starfire. She's that good.

TIER 2: I agree with Hawkman, Canary, Nightwing, and Black Adam being here. The rest I would either rank higher (Aquaman, Cyborg), slightly lower (Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor), or quite a bit lower (Sinestro). Aquaman is still, IMO, the best character in the game, coupling the best early game available with the least variance and the ability to cut off whatever character he wants, and the latter especially makes him dangerous in 1v1 games. Cyborg is arguably the most powerful character in the game overall, but does suffer a bit from variance. Without Equipment, he's a worse Superman, and no one wants to be that. Wonder Woman and Luthor are essentially the same character, with only Wonder Woman being slightly better due to the fact that there are more Super Villains. Sinestro, however... again, too much variance. There aren't a lot of cards that just stone grant VPs, so he has to rely a bit more on actual Attacks, and those can just not show up. Without them, he just sucks, and even with them, the fact that the opponent can prevent your ability from triggering means Sinestro risks getting daggered himself.

TIER 3: What the... lots of crazy here. Batgirl and Animal Man should definitely be ranked higher. People especially seem to underestimate Barbara, as I believe she has the most consistent drawing ability in the game. Animal Man is just a more consistent Green Lantern, albeit less powerful, especially if the game goes long. Flash is probably only a rank below this, but the rest are more towards the bottom. Bizarro is just too much work to be a good character, as he really only shines when he's the one being griefed. Same with Harley Quinn, only she's actually worse. Booster Gold suffers from the same problem that Batman and Sinestro have, only it's way worse because EVERYONE wants Defense, so he gets shafted way too often to be considered even halfway decent. He only really shines with bombs like Blue Beetle or World's Greatest Detective. As for Shazam... as I said, everything about variance applies even more to him. In a vacuum, I guess he can be considered powerful, but when he bricks, he bricks way too hard. First turn 4-power hitting a weak draw spell like Kid Flash or Johnny Quick just doesn't yield any kind of advantage. Same with 99% of cards that only grant +1 Power like High Tech Hero or Manhunter.

TIER 4: I find a few of these to be accurate, though I think Green Arrow is slightly better than this rank. Black Manta is also better, probably more like Tier 3, though not nearly as good as Aquaman since his ability doesn't allow him to bin Kicks. Bane, however, should be WAY higher. Self-trash abilities are really good, especially for additional value, and he's a better abuser of Kicks than someone like Superman. With a turn 3 Kick, he can hit 6-7 cost bombs before most other characters would ever be allowed to touch them.

TIER 5: Mostly accurate here, but what's wrong with Red Tornado? He's actually a very good character with, again, low variance. His ability also hits a lot more often than you might think. I'd personally rank him up there with Animal Man, as his ability will hit Turn 4 very consistently.

LRoq617
02-18-2015, 09:20 AM
I'll follow up that post with my own list. I likewise have it broken into 5 Ranking Groups, though mine is evenly spread out with 6 characters apiece. Exclusions include Crisis and Rivals characters.

TIER 1 (TOP)
Aquaman (Best character IMO, best early game, no variance, griefs others easily, total powerhouse)
Cyborg (Higher variance now, but arguably the most powerful character overall, best "win more" character)
Starfire (Most powerful drawing ability, only griefed by high-cost Super Powers that can appear early)
Bane (Hits the ground running, only less good if he can't maximize ability on Turn 3 or 4)
Green Lantern (Slightly better than AM, though he prefers long games, only really worse in 4+ player games)
Animal Man (Only slightly worse than Lantern, though his ability will trigger earlier, strong as early as Turn 3)

TIER 2 (HIGH)
Batgirl (Most consistent draw ability and flow, just slightly less powerful than her superiors, lacks oomph)
Red Tornado (Great late game character, still works well as early as Turn 4, only griefed by Weaknesses)
Nightwing (Slightly better than the 3 below him due to addition of draw power, only truly griefed by Cyborg)
Superman (Slightly above the other 2 due to the fact that he always has a relevant purchase on Turns 1-2)
Hawkman (Slightly better than Canary since ability triggers on multiple instances of same card)
Black Canary (Very strong, better late game than the 2 above her because Super-Villains)

TIER 3 (MID)
Black Adam (Want to rank higher, but inconsistent despite being very good, or else I'd go as high as TIER 1)
Black Manta (Arguably strongest Turn 3 in the game, only hurt because he can't bin Kicks like Aquaman)
Wonder Woman (Better than Luthor overall since there are more Super-Villains, though closer to the same)
Lex Luthor (He has better low cost options than Wonder Woman, but SV > SH in terms of numbers)
Martian Manhunter (Still powerful, but very easy to grief, MUCH weaker in 3+ person games)
The Flash (Going first is huge, but otherwise, nothing special without a relevant Location)

TIER 4 (LOW)
Shazam (I hate this character, personally, but he has a very good option at 4 Power, just too random)
Green Arrow (Very strong early game, only drawback is he does nothing without Villains in the Line-up)
Batman (Bruce can definitely still win vs. other variance characters, but loses hard otherwise)
Zatanna (I love this character, but aside from some cool combos and defense abuse, she's a worse Batgirl)
Sinestro (Incredibly high variance, but very explosive, but worsened if ability is shut off by opponents)
Swamp Thing (Very bad in 1v1, better with more players, but still most consistent "do nothing" character)

TIER 5 (BOTTOM)
Constantine (Better thanks to Forever Evil, but just a worse Bane/Black Adam, worst "draw" character)
Booster Gold (Suffers from everyone wanting his designated type, only excels with high cost bombs)
Deathstroke (Worst "win more" character, not enough upside, griefed hard as everyone wants destroy cards)
Harley Quinn (I want to like this character, but gaining no upside to defending First Appearances hurts a lot)
Bizarro (Too much work, not enough reward, too dependent on opponent, only true bomb is Bizarro Power)
Robin (Worst character hands down, needs 2 card types to work, not nearly enough upside, just awful)

I tried to order these to the best of my opinion within each rank, but with few exception (Aquaman being best, Robin being worst), there's a lot of wiggle room between the ranks, I feel. Also with the leaked Super Heroes incoming from Crisis 2, I'll be looking to update this, with a likely switch to 6 ranks instead of 5. I'm thinking Indigo-1 is looking very high, Saint Walker is pretty high, Deadman is mid-ish, Kyle Rayner slightly worse, Star Sapphire is just okay, and Red Lantern Supergirl is pretty bleh.

I'd love to hear feedback from others about anything, as I do love some Tier List discussion.

MStreva89
02-18-2015, 10:26 AM
I really feel like players don't give enough credit to certain card count Characters. Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor give a huge bonus by granting extra cards just for buying a certain card type, on average that extra card draw should be worth +1 Power which is the exact same as Black Canary or Hawkman would give IF you drew that card the following turn. Not to mention you didn't even have to draw the card or play it, just buy it.

Also people rank Red Tornado as though he's going to win the game himself, where he can only grant +2 at most and that's if you have 4 different card types in your discard pile. Early game that is hard to do and useless since you won't have that many card types. People also rank Martian Manhunter low when he can provide as high as +6 Power which generally will net you a Super-Villain buy.

Also every list that I don't see Shazam! at or near the top, makes me wonder if players understand just how overpowered he really is. You can literally spend 4 Power and buy cards worth 5 or more and place them on top of your deck to draw them that turn or the next. He's definitely the best right now.

aoineko
02-18-2015, 10:27 AM
Wonder Woman and Luthor are essentially the same character, especially given the ruling that either of their abilities will trigger when you defeat the top card of the Super-Villain/Super Hero stack, as that's how they were designed.


Where did this incorrect ruling come from?

LRoq617
02-18-2015, 11:04 AM
Where did this incorrect ruling come from?

From the "Specific Card Rulings and Clarifications, part II" Thread on this very forum... http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39566

I'll post the exact instance for convenience.

Quote Originally Posted by SushiSquid View Post
So Wonder Woman and Lex Luther only work on purchases of villains/super villains and heroes/super heroes respectively, correct? What you're saying is that things that specifically mention "super" will work on both though.

Correct. If the intent is to work on the big bosses, it works on whatever type of big boss that might be.

Matt Hyra
Cryptozoic R&D

LRoq617
02-18-2015, 11:05 AM
Where did this incorrect ruling come from?

I'll even post another ruling from the same thread in regards to Green Arrow, since it works for him as well.

Quote Originally Posted by MStreva89 View Post
So the Green Arrow character card that refers to Super-Villains, counts for Super-Heroes as well when playing Forever Evil?

Correct.

Matt Hyra
Cryptozoic R&D

aoineko
02-18-2015, 11:56 AM
You're misinterpreting that ruling. The terms Super Hero and Super-Villain are interchangeable. Anything that refers to Super-Villains also works with Super Heroes and vice versa. The term Villain doesn't mean Super-Villain. Likewise for Hero. Green Arrow specifically says Super-Villain, so he also works on Super Heroes. Wonder Woman only says Villains. So, while she works on Super-Villains (because they are Villains), she doesn't draw extra off of Super Heroes (who aren't Villains). Same for Luthor.

LRoq617
02-18-2015, 12:03 PM
You're misinterpreting that ruling. The terms superhero and supervillain are interchangeable. Anything that refers to supervillains also works with superheroes and vice versa. The term villain doesn't mean supervillain. Likewise for hero. Green Arrow specifically says supervillain so he also works on superheroes. Wonder Woman only says Villains. So, while she works on supervillains (because they are villains) she doesn't draw extra off of superheroes (who aren't villains). Same for Luthor.

Right, but that's where the second part of the question is relevant. "...things that specifically mention "super" will work on both though." From what it shows, Matt assured this, stating that they were both intended to work this way by design.

aoineko
02-18-2015, 12:24 PM
Right, but that's where the second part of the question is relevant. "...things that specifically mention "super" will work on both though."

Exactly! Wonder Woman doesn't say "Super."

LRoq617
02-18-2015, 12:27 PM
Exactly! Wonder Woman doesn't say "Super."

All right, I reread everything, and yes, I understand the confusion I had now. In which case, I need to re-evaluate. Wonder Woman is definitely better in this case, since Super-Villains outweigh Super Heroes in sheer numbers, unless you're playing strictly Forever Evil.

Off to re-edit my list!

vbui0803
02-18-2015, 02:18 PM
I'll follow up that post with my own list. I likewise have it broken into 5 Ranking Groups, though mine is evenly spread out with 6 characters apiece. Exclusions include Crisis and Rivals characters.

TIER 1 (TOP)
Aquaman (Best character IMO, best early game, no variance, griefs others easily, total powerhouse)
Cyborg (Higher variance now, but arguably the most powerful character overall, best "win more" character)
Starfire (Most powerful drawing ability, only griefed by high-cost Super Powers that can appear early)
Bane (Hits the ground running, only less good if he can't maximize ability on Turn 3 or 4)
Green Lantern (Slightly better than AM, though he prefers long games, only really worse in 4+ player games)
Animal Man (Only slightly worse than Lantern, though his ability will trigger earlier, strong as early as Turn 3)

TIER 2 (HIGH)
Batgirl (Most consistent draw ability and flow, just slightly less powerful than her superiors, lacks oomph)
Red Tornado (Great late game character, still works well as early as Turn 4, only griefed by Weaknesses)
Nightwing (Slightly better than the 3 below him due to addition of draw power, only truly griefed by Cyborg)
Superman (Slightly above the other 2 due to the fact that he always has a relevant purchase on Turns 1-2)
Hawkman (Slightly better than Canary since ability triggers on multiple instances of same card)
Black Canary (Very strong, better late game than the 2 above her because Super-Villains)

TIER 3 (MID)
Black Adam (Want to rank higher, but inconsistent despite being very good, or else I'd go as high as TIER 1)
Black Manta (Arguably strongest Turn 3 in the game, only hurt because he can't bin Kicks like Aquaman)
Wonder Woman (Better than Luthor overall since there are more Super-Villains, though closer to the same)
Lex Luthor (He has better low cost options than Wonder Woman, but SV > SH in terms of numbers)
Martian Manhunter (Still powerful, but very easy to grief, MUCH weaker in 3+ person games)
The Flash (Going first is huge, but otherwise, nothing special without a relevant Location)

TIER 4 (LOW)
Shazam (I hate this character, personally, but he has a very good option at 4 Power, just too random)
Green Arrow (Very strong early game, only drawback is he does nothing without Villains in the Line-up)
Batman (Bruce can definitely still win vs. other variance characters, but loses hard otherwise)
Zatanna (I love this character, but aside from some cool combos and defense abuse, she's a worse Batgirl)
Sinestro (Incredibly high variance, but very explosive, but worsened if ability is shut off by opponents)
Swamp Thing (Very bad in 1v1, better with more players, but still most consistent "do nothing" character)

TIER 5 (BOTTOM)
Constantine (Better thanks to Forever Evil, but just a worse Bane/Black Adam, worst "draw" character)
Booster Gold (Suffers from everyone wanting his designated type, only excels with high cost bombs)
Deathstroke (Worst "win more" character, not enough upside, griefed hard as everyone wants destroy cards)
Harley Quinn (I want to like this character, but gaining no upside to defending First Appearances hurts a lot)
Bizarro (Too much work, not enough reward, too dependent on opponent, only true bomb is Bizarro Power)
Robin (Worst character hands down, needs 2 card types to work, not nearly enough upside, just awful)

I tried to order these to the best of my opinion within each rank, but with few exception (Aquaman being best, Robin being worst), there's a lot of wiggle room between the ranks, I feel. Also with the leaked Super Heroes incoming from Crisis 2, I'll be looking to update this, with a likely switch to 6 ranks instead of 5. I'm thinking Indigo-1 is looking very high, Saint Walker is pretty high, Deadman is mid-ish, Kyle Rayner slightly worse, Star Sapphire is just okay, and Red Lantern Supergirl is pretty bleh.

I'd love to hear feedback from others about anything, as I do love some Tier List discussion.

I like your list, I appreciate details given with explanation on why you rank the characters in those certain tiers. I do feel some characters should be changed in their rankings. Shazam for one since I feel he is a powerful character. He is very random and can get bad cards, but his ability has so much potential. I think that potential with option of topdecking (similiar to Aquaman's ability) is usefulI've played with my brother a lot and he loves uses Shazam. He always seems to topdeck mostly useful cards for only 4 cost in the HU and base game which has included: white lantern battery, shazam super power, world's mightiest mortal, sciencell, saint walker, super strength, and other good cards. I think he should be at least in tier 2, but thats my opinion. A lot of people find Batgirl useful and think she can produce many combos. I don't mind her ability but I feel she is lower for me, I am not so sure about being considered best in tier 2. I also feel Sinestro and Green arrow could be considered mid tier. Sinestro has great ability if you can get attacks going, but I do agree he can be stopped, still he is very useful. Green Arrow is versatile with villains and there usually are a lot of villains coming out. I think Batgirl like I said is versatile, but I just feel GA is more of my play style, just my opinion.
I agree with your list mostly however. I will post my tier list soon, but it will look similar to yours. I do like the flash, Black Adam and Martian Manhunter though and feel they can be useful, and I have won a round in a recent DC deck tournament with MM over green lantern, and then the second round with Black Adam. *EDIT* I misunderstood Constantine's effect before, but now I see it is alright. Any more comments, please let me know, I am interested in feedback

LRoq617
02-19-2015, 07:07 AM
I like your list, I appreciate details given with explanation on why you rank the characters in those certain tiers. I do feel some characters should be changed in their rankings. Shazam for one since I feel he is a powerful character. He is very random and can get bad cards, but his ability has so much potential. I think that potential with option of topdecking (similiar to Aquaman's ability) is usefulI've played with my brother a lot and he loves uses Shazam. He always seems to topdeck mostly useful cards for only 4 cost in the HU and base game which has included: white lantern battery, shazam super power, world's mightiest mortal, sciencell, saint walker, super strength, and other good cards. I think he should be at least in tier , but thats my opinion. A lot of people find batgirl useful and think she can produce many combos. I don't mind her ability but I feel she is more tier 3 for me, I am not so sure about being considered best in tier 2. I also feel sinestro and green arrow could be considered mid tier. Sinestro has great ability if you can get attacks going, but I do agree he can be stopped, still he is very useful. Green arrow is versatile with villains and there usually are a lot of villains coming out.
I agree with your list mostly however even though robin is a bad character I do not like Constantine. I think he is worst character imo since I have not seen him work when tried with me or my friends. I will post my tier list soon, but it will look similiar to yours. I do like the flash, Black Adam and Martian Manhunter though and feel they can be useful, and I have won a round in a recent DC deck tournament with MM over green lantern, and then the second round with Black Adam.

Thanks very much for the input! I'll offer some notes regarding questions about characters that have been raised.

1) Luthor and Wonder Woman are very strong characters, but I can't rank them above Hawkman and Canary in good conscience. They're characters that very much live in the now and don't offer enough diminishing returns throughout the course of the game, unless you can go on what I used to call a "Bounty Hunt" and kill the Super Hero/Super-Villain consistently every other turn or so. In that case, they're next to unstoppable, but that's best case scenario, and that's not what a tier list is for. It's used to gauge overall percentage of success, and let's be honest: a lot of Villains, especially from Core Set, are AWFUL. The very idea of buying a card like Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, or Riddler for anyone other than Black Canary makes me want to retch. For Wonder Woman, they grant you an extra card one time, then they're in your deck for the rest of the game, where they're awful. For Canary, they're at least Kicks with an upside, and I'll take that any day over a one-time-only draw spell. You also have to remember that cards like this are a lot more common than the Gorilla Grodds, Doomsdays, and Hugo Stranges out there. Basically, Luthor/WW benefit more from the great cards which are already very good, but Hawkman/Canary make otherwise bad and mediocre cards into very playable cards. Hence, I believe them to be better.

2) Red Tornado is good. Like, really good. Think about it: you don't technically have to do anything to trigger his ability. You just play the game as you normally would and you'll be getting an additional 2 power on a large majority of turns. As in, 2 of every 3, or even 3 of every 4. Aside from Weaknesses, his only other real drawback is that he kinda suffers from the same syndrome that Green Lantern does: he has an almost too great need for cards that destroy in order to streamline his deck. Discard piles gunked up with Starters are no good for him, and they must be dealt with quickly if you plan to win.

3) I see your point about Batgirl. The lack of power should at least put her behind characters like Nightwing on that level, but I still feel like Batgirl is just a bit better, for similar reasons that characters like Aquaman, Bane, and Red Tornado are "good": lack of needed variance. She can build her deck anyway she wants, and her ability will always have the upside of trading up. Essentially what that means is, anytime she discards a Punch, she has a good chance of ending up with a better hand than she had before. The only down trade is a Vulnerability or Weakness, and she breaks even if she draws another Punch. She does have one fairly big drawback, however, in that she tends to go against what you really want to be doing in DC, and that's trashing the Starter cards out of your deck. She's only more effective when she has them, similarly to Green Arrow, although I think she's a bit better at what she does considering how huge it is to have draw power. Still, I'll take her position under review.

4) Now, for the one I seem to be getting the most flack for: Shazam. Here's how I see it... he's just too random to be good. He reminds me a lot of Swamp Thing in one regard: he's either just terrible or completely insane. There really isn't much of a middle ground. Frankly, I've had/seen more games with him as the former than the latter, so that's where the rub comes in.

I'll post some example scenarios...

1. Turn 1, Shazam pays 4 power, reveals a Location from the main deck, stacks on top, waste of a turn.

2. Turn 1, Shazam pays 4 power, reveals a +1 power card (Hawkgirl, Manhunter, Cold Gun), stacks on top, card is just a Punch, waste of a turn.

3. Turn 1, Shazam pays 4 power, reveals a draw spell (Johnny Quick, Oracle, Legion Flight Ring), stacks on top, card will only draw a Punch on Turn 2, waste of a turn. (Note: Super Speed is the ONLY major exception here)

4. Turn 1, Shazam pays 4 power, reveals a +2 power card (Mera, Bo Staff, Power of the Green), stacks on top, only slightly better than a Kick, above average turn.

5. Turn 1, Shazam pays 4 power, reveals a disgusting bomb of +3 power or better value (Doomsday, Heat Vision, Mind Control Hat), stacks on top, Shazam has probably won the game already.

The problem that I have with the character is this: out of any of those listed scenarios, only the last 2 are in any way feasible when it comes to playing the character, so you're playing the odds no matter what you're doing. That's not how I choose to play. The other part of the problem is that with the exception of the last scenario, Aquaman can do any of the other 4 scenarios regardless of what's in the lineup because he can just stack a Kick and guarantee himself at least 4 power on the next turn, though it's usually 5, and even 6 in rare cases. Only a 2-power Turn 1 denies this scenario, and that's not only rare, but it's worst-case, and it's STILL worse for a character like Shazam.

That leads me to my other problem. Of all the scenarios I've posted, what do they all have in common? They all require 4 power on Turn 1. That doesn't always happen with Shazam, or any character for that matter, and I feel like anyone who views it otherwise is just having a case of blind thinking. It's another case of playing the odds with this character, because on Turn 1, if you only have 2 or 3 power, his odds of actually being considered a "good" character have dropped by at least 50%. If you want a character like this to be good, you HAVE to bank on the odds of preparing for Turn 2 rather than Turn 3. If you can get lucky and setup for both, great. I'm happy for your luck. But Aquaman can not only do the same thing, he can guarantee the fact that it happens at least 80% of the time, I would wager. With Shazam, it's a crapshoot, and that's now how I want to play this game.

Now of course, I'm not an idiot. I've seen insane games for this character. Hell, I've even played them. First time he was ever played in our group, a friend of mine hit a Turn 2 Lobo for play on Turn 3. He didn't lose. My first Shazam game ever in Heroes Unite, I spiked a Turn 1 Soultaker Sword for use on Turn 2. Disgusting, and those are the exact scenarios you're playing for. But without scenarios like that, he's just worse at what he does than another character who is, in my opinion, just plain better.

As it is, I'll likely consider him for at least a rank above, but definitely no better than that. His power level alone means he should probably be ranked at least a bit higher, but the best character in the game? Not even in the slightest. It's like betting on the same 3 numbers in Roulette everytime and expecting to win. None for me, thank you.

MStreva89
02-19-2015, 08:00 AM
1) I think you're really underestimating the power and consistency of Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor... I value Wonder Woman as a top pick in Classic for the reasons of how if you stick to buying Villains, most of the Super-Villain First Appearances barely even scratch her. You may think it's not plausible to buy the Super-Villain every turn, but it 100% is when you have a 6 card hand every time. I plan to record videos of my friend and I playing a match with certain Characters that people have doubts on so that I can show everyone what they've been missing out on. As for Harley Quinn, obviously she's horrible, but Poison Ivy is amazing in the sense that she discards a card and gives them a Weakness in mid to late game almost 100% of the time, and the Riddler is incredible in his ability to just buy Main Deck cards for pennies! I'm sorry, but I will gamble 3 Power every time because odds are I'm going plus on that trade.

2) Red Tornado just isn't good. I'm not looking to have a discard pile of good cards I've bought, I'm looking to have them in my hand. He doesn't draw extra cards which shuffles your deck faster, he doesn't stack cards, he doesn't cycle cards, he doesn't give a strong +Power that makes his drawback worth it, and he takes WAY too long to start triggering every turn and even then, once you shuffle you lose his effect that turn and it will happen multiple times each game. A bad draw can prevent you from triggering most Characters, but Red Tornado is GUARANTEED to turn off every few turns and that's if he was even on to begin with. Now you can make the argument of turning him on with various buys to trigger his ability, but at what cost? You could be spending 8 or more Power just to trigger him, but for what, +2 Power? Who needs that +2 Power when you should be aiming for stronger cards with that 8 or more Power and quite frankly if you are snatching up so many cards from the Line-Up, all you're doing is opening up slots for bigger and better cards to fall down for your opponent. In my opinion, Red Tornado is trash and I have never in good faith picked him when I'm playing for money.

3) Batgirl's true strength lies in her ability to cycle thru the deck in the early game. Sure she's gonna get deleted as a pick if you get to destroy all your Punches, but her accelerated early game should be enough to get you where you need to be. Granted, she's still not a top pick as there are much better Characters than her. Combine her with Harley Quinn though and she's a force of nature.

4) I like your examples, except getting on a Location on Turn 1... godlike for the rest of the game. Stacking any +1 Power card? Never. Why slow down your shuffle? Have you looked at the card list for each of the game versions and seen the quality of cards he has option to? Quite frankly, he is the best Character in the game because he can lock down the Line-Up for his opponent. You based your ENTIRE argument on his Turn 1 play, which while yes having 4 or 5 Power on Turn 1 is necessary to see his true strength blossom right off the bat, you're not even considering his mid to late game at all. When I play Shazam!, it's like I have blinders on and the Line-Up nor the Super-Villain/Hero or Kick stack even exist. At all times, as much as I please, I can gamble 4 Power to potentially get a card worth 4 or more AND stack it to the top of my deck for more combo plays. On an average turn I'm going to use his effect 2-3 times in the mid game and nearly 6 times in the late game just by comboing my cards right and playing my turn in a specific fashion. My winrate with Shazam! in 1v1 is at least 95% if not more. My opponent can only win by getting the perfect cards and buying enough Super-Villains/Heroes to harm my slow play. I'm never going to buy a Super-Villain/Hero except for a Captain Cold that hit me or maybe something powerful like Hector Hammond to combo with. In every game version I get to chance buying cards out of the Main Deck that my opponent CANNOT even see or has option to, he can't leave the Line-Up alone either because I'll just buy from the Main Deck and ignore a crap Line-Up, leaving him with doodoo cards. Cards that I can gain in each version that can easily tilt a game in my favor:

- Classic: Utility Belt, Green Arrow, Man of Steel, J'onn J'onzz, Suicide Squads, Clayface, Lobo, Heat Vision, Locations.
- Heroes Unite: Saint Walker, Science Cell, World's Mightiest Mortal, Kyle Rayner, Power Rings, Locations, Soul Taker Sword, Mind Control Hat, Red Lantern Corps, Canary Cry, The Demon Etrigan, Jason Blood, Wonder of the Knight, etc.
- Forever Evil: Ultra Strength, Royal Flush Gang, Power Armor, Power Drain, Constructs of Fear, Transmutation, Broadsword, Cosmic Staff, Firestorm, Firestorm Matrix, Ultraman, Super Woman, Owlman, Power Ring, Bizarro Power, etc.

And that's just naming power cards, not naming every single broken combo I can get out of these game versions or plays. The fact of the matter is while yes I'm putting my quarters into a slot machine every time I use Shazam!, I got a good chance of breaking even or coming out on top every single time. I've played several people for cash claiming that if I have Shazam!, it doesn't matter who they use, I would win. Needless to say, I've got a 100% win ratio there and I would bet anyone who thinks otherwise the exact same thing.

Again, I'm going to record some of my matches with Characters that people think seem to be useless and I'll show some physical proof of how powerful some Characters truly are.

vbui0803
02-19-2015, 07:06 PM
Here is my opinion on rankings in particular order for tier list. I am not expert analyst so please I would like to hear some comments and constructive criticism. This is from experience from my games and reading from others posts. I do like Superman and Flash since they are my favorite superheroes in real life, but I know they are not the best even if I feel a little bias. But this is in response to Lroq617's list. Please I like and welcome discussion and it does help me know more about the game.

TIER 1 (TOP)
-Shazam: IMO he is the best, since even with randomness, he can get great cards AND topdeck whatever he buys from main deck. And previously mentioned lockin the lineup
-Aquaman: Very consistent, always able to topdeck most of cards in lineup to provide immediate access.
-Cyborg: Very versatile and people consider him one of the best
-Starfire: powerful draw ability and usually her effect will trigger most of the time, also even if superpower in lineup, you could buy it then trigger her ability
-Green Lantern: Strong ability and later in game, can trigger with not too much difficultly
-Animal Man: His ability is easy to trigger and can get 2 power with not too much trouble early in game.
-Martian Manhunter: Strong character with two ways to trigger ability. Not too hard to get ability even if there are shortages of 2 needed cards because of mixing

TIER 2 (HIGH)
-Hawkman: I feel he’s strong one in this tier since he triggers with any heroes even repeats
-Black Canary: Good ability since supervillains are included and lots of villians in main deck
-Superman: when in doubt buy a kick, he will always have backup to use plus lineup.
-The Flash: going first is important since he can gauge what he wants from lineup before anyone else. It is also nice to gain extra cards from draw cards
-Sinestro: Strong character since if you can get attack cards, you trigger two effects which help greatly. But he can be stopped with others buying attacks and defenses.
-Bane: Easy way to access ability if need the extra power, to get the extra push
-Black Adam: Kinda like superman, always have kicks as backup to trigger ability also (my little brother abused that with him)

TIER 3 (MID)
-Green Arrow: I think he’s great character since he can trigger with supervillians and villains. I’ve used him to buy villains for free or 1 power.
-Wonder Woman: always nice to have extra card. Already mentioned higher because more supervillains than superheroes.
-Lex Luthor: Pretty much same thing as Wonder Woman
-Nightwing: My opinion with him is Nightwing is weaker version of cyborg. But he has more versatility than Batman so slightly higher.
-Batman: Good enough of character, but not usual winner
-Red Tornado: As long as you play cards that are different his effect will work, decent late game. But he won’t do much in beginning which might make him have to play catchup.
-Black Manta: I think he is good character since you can put any card on bottom, but later in game I think with a bigger deck you can get stronger hands, but would take longer to work?
-Batgirl: A lot of people like her and I still think she is solid with the ability to cycle deck and top deck manipulation, but when using punches, I just prefer to use Green Arrow

TIER 4 (LOW)
-Booster Gold: I love booster Gold but he is hard to win with since not too many defenses in deck, and everyone usually wants them
-Constantine: At first I did not like Constantine but I misunderstood his effect. It actually can be useful since you get to play extra card with extra +1 power, and you get to know what your next card is which can be useful.
-Zatanna: Kinda like batgirl with manipulation, but lower than her I think
-Harley Quinn: pass effect hard to trigger and discarding cards only works with few cards such as defenses

TIER 5 (BOTTOM)
-Swamp Thing: Already mentioned, is most consistent “do nothing character” since only usually 5-7 locations he needs are in +100 card main deck
-Deathstroke: hard to use since not too many destruction cards and everyone wants these since very useful. But useful in Forever Evil.
-Bizarro: hard to trigger and gaining weaknesses is always negative thing for dead draws so not feeling him too much
-Robin: I think he is worst one in the game since he needs two specific cards to trigger his ability

Did more editing after some feedback and this is still my opinion on rankings

destroth
02-20-2015, 03:22 AM
Red tornado is a strong character...

Normally, at the start I would buy cards which my opponent needs to suppress them since red tornado is good only in mid-late game. Then I would buy random card of different type so that I can trigger his +2 power .. And also lots of draw cards and cards that can pull card out of my discard pile ...

I will generally have quite a thick deck which will increase my probability to be able to pull something good out of my discard pile .. The probability isn't really that low... I especially like the combo to use demon etrigan and Jason blood to continuously use them every turn...
And before I shuffle my discard I will also make sure my hand has at least 3 type of different card type , so that the next round perhaps I can buy something and put it there to re-trigger his ability. He is especially strong in HU where he belongs since there is a ton of card which interact with the discard pile. Not so strong in FE due to deck thinning and frequent re shuffling of deck reducing his tendency to trigger his ability ...

MStreva89
02-20-2015, 06:52 AM
I think the entire argument of placing his potential +2 Power as a force of nature Character is totally out of this world. This Character needs 4 different card types to trigger a +2 Power... During the early game, this ability has the potential to trigger once from turns 1-6. After turn 6 he can start triggering more often, IF you draw different card types or start buying different card types to fill up your discard pile. So clearly his early game is one of the weakest out there, but what about his mid game? He's a Kick if you're meeting his demanding trigger. He grants +2 Power, if you have 4 different card types... To properly trigger his ability on a regular, you probably have every card type at your disposal in the mid game, so that means you have to play those card types at different points in your turns before you reshuffle and lose his ability.

How does having an extra Kick at a decently sized cost correlate to a strong Character? Cyborg is a built in Batcave with another potential +1 Power, Aquaman can stack all 5 drop and less cards making his turns stronger every time, Green Arrow can discard a Punch and reduce all Villains and Super-Villains/Heroes by 2 cost which can be a large boost, Starfire can draw a free card if no Super Powers exist in the Line-Up which can combo, Wonder Woman draws you extra cards the following turn after you buy Villains, and the list can keep going about all the Characters that have amazing effects that do more than just potentially provide +2 Power. I'm not sure why you think a potential +2 Power is worth sacrificing all these other great effects when it comes down to it.

I don't see myself ever grabbing Red Tornado unless 90% of my Characters are not available and that just doesn't happen. If I was picking my opponent's Characters, I would give them Red Tornado so I can watch them struggle with how useless of a Character he is. In my opinion, he's just not good and I'm willing to bet money on the fact that if you played him 100 games against various Characters, he would lose 99% of those games.

gerrymul
02-20-2015, 05:58 PM
I personally think a lot of people miss the boat on both Red Tornado and Batgirl. They may not seem great, but my best win/loss ratio in Heroes Unite is with Batgirl, followed by Red Tornado. There are strategies you have to play with for both of these characters, but given the amount of deck manipulation there is with this set they both work very well.

vbui0803
02-20-2015, 06:37 PM
I personally think a lot of people miss the boat on both Red Tornado and Batgirl. They may not seem great, but my best win/loss ratio in Heroes Unite is with Batgirl, followed by Red Tornado. There are strategies you have to play with for both of these characters, but given the amount of deck manipulation there is with this set they both work very well.

I think they are decent characters. Just my opinion is that there are other characters that play better than them. But I have played with them and done alright. I've done good combos with both so they not horrible just in the low tier for me.

destroth
02-21-2015, 10:25 AM
I think the entire argument of placing his potential +2 Power as a force of nature Character is totally out of this world. This Character needs 4 different card types to trigger a +2 Power... During the early game, this ability has the potential to trigger once from turns 1-6. After turn 6 he can start triggering more often, IF you draw different card types or start buying different card types to fill up your discard pile. So clearly his early game is one of the weakest out there, but what about his mid game? He's a Kick if you're meeting his demanding trigger. He grants +2 Power, if you have 4 different card types... To properly trigger his ability on a regular, you probably have every card type at your disposal in the mid game, so that means you have to play those card types at different points in your turns before you reshuffle and lose his ability.

How does having an extra Kick at a decently sized cost correlate to a strong Character? Cyborg is a built in Batcave with another potential +1 Power, Aquaman can stack all 5 drop and less cards making his turns stronger every time, Green Arrow can discard a Punch and reduce all Villains and Super-Villains/Heroes by 2 cost which can be a large boost, Starfire can draw a free card if no Super Powers exist in the Line-Up which can combo, Wonder Woman draws you extra cards the following turn after you buy Villains, and the list can keep going about all the Characters that have amazing effects that do more than just potentially provide +2 Power. I'm not sure why you think a potential +2 Power is worth sacrificing all these other great effects when it comes down to it.

I don't see myself ever grabbing Red Tornado unless 90% of my Characters are not available and that just doesn't happen. If I was picking my opponent's Characters, I would give them Red Tornado so I can watch them struggle with how useless of a Character he is. In my opinion, he's just not good and I'm willing to bet money on the fact that if you played him 100 games against various Characters, he would lose 99% of those games.

Lose 99%?? U must be doing really bad job with red tornado or your normal strategy doesn't suites him.. Also like I say before if your playing 1v1 it's a whole different story ... Honestly I don't really like playing him 1v1 ... It's too difficult to control your opponent , especially in your game play where you can use up to 2 super hero ... Even harder to control your opponent ...

But in other game play it would he a whole lot easier to buy other ppl's card making their life miserable ... Taking most of
Def card from booster gold for example ...

But putting that aside , +2 is a kick ... But is a free kick and it's like the 6th card in your hand every turn .. Take flash draw a card and draw another ... What if it's a weakness or punch? That's just a plus 1 and how often u get cards which is more than +2 ? By average they are +2... Red tornado power is consistent , even more consistent than animal man and green lantern ... By the way I win , I won't say 99% but perhaps 70% of the game with red tornado ... Aquaman is strong early game but once u already have a decent deck , his power is just not that useful anymore ... Wonder Woman ... If most villian is bought by other characters just so u can't buy them ? What power does she have ? But because of deck have lots of villian which makes her good as it's common for the line up to suddenly be filled with villian... In FE she sucks .... Green arrow goes by the similar concept , giving away a punch to buy villian at a lower cost, if one villian is present , his power is just +1 , if 2 , it's +3 , and +5, +7 so on , but again what are the odds? If your opponent are leaving the Villians for you to buy then oh well lol... Cause I certainly won't allow my opponent to get the cards he want ...

Oh by the way are you playing the variant where when u buy a card from the line up you instantly replace them or as the original rule of only replenish them at the end of the turn ? Cause that rule also changes the capability of the characters ....

destroth
02-21-2015, 10:32 AM
I think they are decent characters. Just my opinion is that there are other characters that play better than them. But I have played with them and done alright. I've done good combos with both so they not horrible just in the low tier for me.

I do very much agree with gerrymul... I have used them plenty of times and I find both of them above average ... In fact I would consider all characters which is less luck base to be decent... Luck base character for me are like swamp thing , shazam , they could be just too awesome or suck big time ... Maybe less extreme for shazam...

Luck base character goes to my lower tier as it is less controllable. Batgirl and red tornado are very consistent heroes and definitely worth a spot in the mid or high tier ....

Back to what gerrymul said, play the right strategy for the right hero and they can be really good ....

MStreva89
02-23-2015, 06:58 AM
Here's where I think your confusion of how consistent a Character is and how powerful they truly are. Take The Flash example you laid out where if you draw that extra card it's worthless (Weakness or Vulnerability), regardless of whether or not it's useless, he still is going thru the deck faster allowing you to get to your power cards quicker, that's that difference. Red Tornado doesn't help shuffle faster or net you more cards. Not to mention his actual bonus isn't a large one. Green Arrow is more powerful for the concept of early game and even mid game he's active, plus there's always at least 1 target for him and that's the Super-Villain/Hero. On turns that there are multiple Villains open for him, he's huge. Wonder Woman isn't good in Forever Evil, I don't think anyone will defend her, but in Classic and Heroes Unite where you have Super-Villains to target, she always gets a free bonus which is worth more than Red Tornado's just in the sense of shuffling and drawing faster. Also with Aquaman, you seem to miss his second most important function and that's comboing with the Line-Up. I don't care how late in the game it is, if a Bat Signal or Power Ring comes up in the Line-Up, provided he has a draw, that card is considered in his hand for all purposes.

And no, I don't play with that variant because it's insane.

MStreva89
02-23-2015, 01:28 PM
So this weekend I lost a very crucial game in Forever Evil while using Shazam! + Constantine. I revised my tier lists of every game version (I can't upload it here due to size, so I'll have to convert it to Word and manually copy and paste it to the forums), because quite frankly it opened my eyes to the utter disgrace that Shazam! is in Forever Evil.

Normally the Shazam! + Constantine combo is an auto win against even the likes of Aquaman + anyone, but in Forever Evil it's a huge lack of power cards that will render him useless, as well as the abundance of destroy cards that can easily flop to your opponent which makes this buying from the Main Deck strategy a bit useless. Not to mention Pandora, Pandora's Box, and Cosmic Staff which allows your opponent to mess with your lockdown style gameplay.

Overall, Shazam! is still the best Character in Classic and Heroes Unite, but in Forever Evil he just lacks being able to bully his opponent with his cheesey tactics. This would technically put the King of Atlantis, Aquaman back at the top of the tier list for overall games as he is amazing in Forever Evil just as much as in other game versions.

destroth
02-23-2015, 01:45 PM
Here's where I think your confusion of how consistent a Character is and how powerful they truly are. Take The Flash example you laid out where if you draw that extra card it's worthless (Weakness or Vulnerability), regardless of whether or not it's useless, he still is going thru the deck faster allowing you to get to your power cards quicker, that's that difference. Red Tornado doesn't help shuffle faster or net you more cards. Not to mention his actual bonus isn't a large one. Green Arrow is more powerful for the concept of early game and even mid game he's active, plus there's always at least 1 target for him and that's the Super-Villain/Hero. On turns that there are multiple Villains open for him, he's huge. Wonder Woman isn't good in Forever Evil, I don't think anyone will defend her, but in Classic and Heroes Unite where you have Super-Villains to target, she always gets a free bonus which is worth more than Red Tornado's just in the sense of shuffling and drawing faster. Also with Aquaman, you seem to miss his second most important function and that's comboing with the Line-Up. I don't care how late in the game it is, if a Bat Signal or Power Ring comes up in the Line-Up, provided he has a draw, that card is considered in his hand for all purposes.

And no, I don't play with that variant because it's insane.

Going through the deck and looping card is definitely a good option to go ... Constantly reusing 1 or two of the better card that you have ... But like I was saying red tornado have the liberty to buy any cards he want and still able to trigger his power ... If against Wonder Woman ... I would buy all the villian if I could and it would not harm me that much , the same for green arrow or other characters who are dependent on specific type of cards.

I have no objection with aquaman, he is definitely a good character with early start and he too can buy any card he wants ...

if against flash , what if all draw card that so happen to come out are bought by red tornado? The flash can't even execute his ability, or let's say perhaps one or two manage to be bought by the flash, then it come to the question on how often can he use that card now? Try playing with just one hero, u will notice just how dependent some heroes may be ... Booster gold without def can't do anything, and in a regular game, most players would want def, so what's left for booster gold ? but of coz there are exception if he get extremely lucky and buy all the defenses instead or he manage to thin his deck down and loop that few defenses..

and there is no confusion about how consistent or inconsistent on my side ... Is that I mainly rank characters base on their dependency on certain cards and how often those card may or may not appear in the line up as well as the chances it will be bought by your opponent to prevent you from pulling a certain combo.. Which again, will be less relevant in your variant where you are using two different character or in a 1v1 game... In summary each character has a different advantage depending on variant, set, and the amount of player in play... U should really shouldn't judge them base on just 1v1 and 2 character variant , it's different, but for your case I do agree with your list if and only if your playing 2 character variant

LRoq617
02-24-2015, 06:08 AM
I'd like to believe I'm nothing if not fair, so I've decided to use Shazam for an experiment. Basically, I'm trying to determine if he's as good as he's supposed to be, so here's the project: 3 games vs. another great character with each main deck (Core Set, Heroes Unite, Forever Evil) for a total of 9 games against said character. Current targets include Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Wonder Woman (Core/HU), Luthor (FE), possibly Black Adam and/or Bane, and even Red Tornado (deal with it).

I'll be updating this as the project continues, given applicable time.

First up, Aquaman w/Core Set.
G1 - Aquaman Wins (Very weak Shazam game).
G2 - Aquaman Wins (Better, but still not great, Heat Vision/Doomsday were on much later turns).
G3 - Shazam Wins (Super Strength hit midgame)

Wonder Woman w/Core Set
G1 - Shazam Wins (Paint-by-numbers game).
G2 - Wonder Woman Wins (Total blowout. WW bought Bane, then Grodd, then Arkham. Not close.)
G3 - Shazam Wins (Fairly one-sided, hitting Doomsday early was clutch).

* Reserved Space for Editing *

MStreva89
02-24-2015, 06:44 AM
You're definitely right on certain subjects destroth, like how Booster Gold is vanilla without Defenses which are worth buying by every player. I get what you're saying, about how you can constantly cut other players of what their Character really needs, but on average, you can't 100% control what comes out after you buy stuff and that's where certain Characters will shine.

Booster Gold isn't much of a pick in Heroes Unite as I feel the Defenses don't really benefit him as much (extra card and pick up Hero for Skeets is meh IMO) when compared to Classic's Super Speed or Cape and Cowl which net you 3 draws and cycle into more Defenses faster or Forever Evil which as you pointed out has a bunch of Defenses that make you go -1 card count for your next turn. In fact recently since I began showing my friends the sheer power of Booster Gold in Forever Evil, he generally gets banned just because of his ability to keep hand count while using great Defenses like Cosmic Staff or Man Bat.

If you look at the other Characters who are card type specific, you're gonna find that you can't always keep that player from his card type (unless the luck of the draw just goes that way). I get that you have that mentality with Red Tornado in that you're not looking for a specific card type, but you also don't have a reliable power source or Character until mid game and even then he's going to fall apart at times when you reshuffle. In my opinion, there's just not enough benefit to outweigh the lack of true power in Red Tornado.

Also yes, my tier list as stated in the original post is based off of our 1v1 2 Character Draft style games.

destroth
02-24-2015, 09:37 AM
Yea booster in the original set is crazily strong ... Draw three for most of the defenses ... @.@ ...

LRoq617
02-24-2015, 12:54 PM
You're definitely right on certain subjects destroth, like how Booster Gold is vanilla without Defenses which are worth buying by every player. I get what you're saying, about how you can constantly cut other players of what their Character really needs, but on average, you can't 100% control what comes out after you buy stuff and that's where certain Characters will shine.

Booster Gold isn't much of a pick in Heroes Unite as I feel the Defenses don't really benefit him as much (extra card and pick up Hero for Skeets is meh IMO) when compared to Classic's Super Speed or Cape and Cowl which net you 3 draws and cycle into more Defenses faster or Forever Evil which as you pointed out has a bunch of Defenses that make you go -1 card count for your next turn. In fact recently since I began showing my friends the sheer power of Booster Gold in Forever Evil, he generally gets banned just because of his ability to keep hand count while using great Defenses like Cosmic Staff or Man Bat.

If you look at the other Characters who are card type specific, you're gonna find that you can't always keep that player from his card type (unless the luck of the draw just goes that way). I get that you have that mentality with Red Tornado in that you're not looking for a specific card type, but you also don't have a reliable power source or Character until mid game and even then he's going to fall apart at times when you reshuffle. In my opinion, there's just not enough benefit to outweigh the lack of true power in Red Tornado.

Also yes, my tier list as stated in the original post is based off of our 1v1 2 Character Draft style games.

I kinda figured that once I saw Harley Quinn in Tier 2. She would never be justifiably ranked that high unless she's supplementing another character's ability.

destroth
02-25-2015, 06:19 AM
I'd like to believe I'm nothing if not fair, so I've decided to use Shazam for an experiment. Basically, I'm trying to determine if he's as good as he's supposed to be, so here's the project: 3 games vs. another great character with each main deck (Core Set, Heroes Unite, Forever Evil) for a total of 9 games against said character. Current targets include Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Wonder Woman (Core/HU), Luthor (FE), possibly Black Adam and/or Bane, and even Red Tornado (deal with it).

I'll be updating this as the project continues, given applicable time.

First up, Aquaman w/Core Set.
G1 - Aquaman Wins (Very weak Shazam game).
G2 - Aquaman Wins (Better, but still not great, Heat Vision/Doomsday were on much later turns).
G3 - Shazam Wins (Super Strength hit midgame)

Wonder Woman w/Core Set
G1 - Shazam Wins (Paint-by-numbers game).
G2 - Wonder Woman Wins (Total blowout. WW bought Bane, then Grodd, then Arkham. Not close.)
G3 - Shazam Wins (Fairly one-sided, hitting Doomsday early was clutch).

* Reserved Space for Editing *

Shazam to me is a luck base hero ... And it's all depend on if he was able to obtain a good card (cost 6 or higher) from
The main deck in the first few turn, and if your opponent haven't already got a good card yet..

Was playing shazam that day within the first 5 round I have gotten a power armor ^^ ... It eventually got destroyed due to batman superhero but I manage to get a firestorm matrix and a pandora in the subsequent few turns ... And of coz I won the game

I also tested him on another game , first 5 turn , shazamed 2 firestorm matrix and that's the end of it lol ...

So I played him again the third time and this time I've gotten cards like Steve Trevor and emperor penguin at the very beginning and that's all the way downhill ....

In the end I would just say he is extremely luck dependent irregardless of who he is against and the first 5-10 round of your turn is very crucial

destroth
02-25-2015, 06:31 AM
You're definitely right on certain subjects destroth, like how Booster Gold is vanilla without Defenses which are worth buying by every player. I get what you're saying, about how you can constantly cut other players of what their Character really needs, but on average, you can't 100% control what comes out after you buy stuff and that's where certain Characters will shine.

Booster Gold isn't much of a pick in Heroes Unite as I feel the Defenses don't really benefit him as much (extra card and pick up Hero for Skeets is meh IMO) when compared to Classic's Super Speed or Cape and Cowl which net you 3 draws and cycle into more Defenses faster or Forever Evil which as you pointed out has a bunch of Defenses that make you go -1 card count for your next turn. In fact recently since I began showing my friends the sheer power of Booster Gold in Forever Evil, he generally gets banned just because of his ability to keep hand count while using great Defenses like Cosmic Staff or Man Bat.

If you look at the other Characters who are card type specific, you're gonna find that you can't always keep that player from his card type (unless the luck of the draw just goes that way). I get that you have that mentality with Red Tornado in that you're not looking for a specific card type, but you also don't have a reliable power source or Character until mid game and even then he's going to fall apart at times when you reshuffle. In my opinion, there's just not enough benefit to outweigh the lack of true power in Red Tornado.

Also yes, my tier list as stated in the original post is based off of our 1v1 2 Character Draft style games.

I was catching up to all the other posts , replied before without reading everything >.< ...

Yea u are right in a 1v1 is pretty hard to buy off all the cards that your opponent needs ... But I guess I mostly play a 3-4 player game ... And it's just so annoying that when I was playing card specific hero .. I rarely am able to buy them before the two or three players before me decide that I am too strong ... They just hoard all card... It then come down to that one and only card that will be flipped during my turn :( .... Was playing Hawkman and only got 1-2 hero out of the 10 heroes that enter the line up ... The 1-2 was available cause it was too lousy for them to buy... And so I was able to buy them (like finally a hero)

Also on your post on forever evil... Yea that set has so many low power cards that most U need to developed your game into mid game before u can buy the superheroes after flash, making early game characters to be slightly less powerful ... Also in this set the additional +, even if it's just one or two is extremely important

LRoq617
02-25-2015, 10:21 AM
Shazam to me is a luck base hero ... And it's all depend on if he was able to obtain a good card (cost 6 or higher) from
The main deck in the first few turn, and if your opponent haven't already got a good card yet..

Was playing shazam that day within the first 5 round I have gotten a power armor ^^ ... It eventually got destroyed due to batman superhero but I manage to get a firestorm matrix and a pandora in the subsequent few turns ... And of coz I won the game

I also tested him on another game , first 5 turn , shazamed 2 firestorm matrix and that's the end of it lol ...

So I played him again the third time and this time I've gotten cards like Steve Trevor and emperor penguin at the very beginning and that's all the way downhill ....

In the end I would just say he is extremely luck dependent irregardless of who he is against and the first 5-10 round of your turn is very crucial

This is exactly what I've been saying. He's the most variance-based character in the game, and less than half of any given main deck is going to be full of bombs that he wants. Even hitting a random +2 (Element Woman, Killer Croc, Aquaman's Trident) is merely slightly above average since you'll only have 5 power on the following turn, which means you're more than likely using your ability again and hoping for the best. There are obvious exceptions to this rule (Soultaker Sword, for example), but still subpar overall.

It sums up what I can't stand about the hero: he's inconsistent, and in 1v1 with one character, he's going to be a suboptimal character more often than not.

MStreva89
02-25-2015, 11:49 AM
LRoq617, I can't disagree with you more. Shazam! in 1v1 is quite frankly unstoppable when used in Classic and Heroes Unite. I have a 95% win rate with him in that format against people that I'm betting against. I mean, this is me staking money on the concept of Shazam! and it makes me profit. You mentioned it yourself that even a +2 Power card stacked to the top is worth it, but that you're chancing that you're gonna get a real show stopper that can snow ball you into a quick and easy win. I'm sorry, but I will take the Shazam! gamble every single time and more often that not, it'll be worth it.

vbui0803
02-25-2015, 12:17 PM
I edited my list a little bit after some more gameplay. I think Shazam is a real gamble, but there is a lot of pay off for numerous situations. Plus his ability to topdeck his shazamed card even makes his ability more annoying :P He is pretty powerful and what he can gain makes his randomness worth it in the end. My little brother does beat me most of the time in 1v1 with Shazam, but he can also do well in 3-5 player games obviously.

vbui0803
02-25-2015, 12:27 PM
I do very much agree with gerrymul... I have used them plenty of times and I find both of them above average ... In fact I would consider all characters which is less luck base to be decent... Luck base character for me are like swamp thing , shazam , they could be just too awesome or suck big time ... Maybe less extreme for shazam...

Luck base character goes to my lower tier as it is less controllable. Batgirl and red tornado are very consistent heroes and definitely worth a spot in the mid or high tier ....

Back to what gerrymul said, play the right strategy for the right hero and they can be really good ....

Yeah I just recently played a game with red tornado and I did win. I changed it so he is mid tier for me, he is solid character. I have always liked him and I do think batgirl is good too, I changed her to mid since I do underestimated her usefulness. I just didn't want to crunch too many characters in each category. She can cycle through her deck and could pull off good plays. But my opinion I just prefer GA over her. I think they are both good characters, it's just I enjoy other ones more so I am conflicted.

MStreva89
02-26-2015, 08:26 AM
With the release of Crisis 2 (got my hands on it luckily yesterday), I've already begun testing all the Characters and sizing them up according to tier and game version. Unfortunately due to the size of my Excel files, I can't upload them as PDF here, but I am going to try and move them over so I can have a more accurate list for you guys according to my games and tournaments.

As of right now the top Characters released in this expansion are White Lantern Deadman, Saint Walker, Indigo-1, Saint Walker, Starfire Crisis and Red Tornado Crisis. Shazam! Crisis is going to be banned due to his Cyborg Crisis like ability.

destroth
02-26-2015, 11:53 AM
With the release of Crisis 2 (got my hands on it luckily yesterday), I've already begun testing all the Characters and sizing them up according to tier and game version. Unfortunately due to the size of my Excel files, I can't upload them as PDF here, but I am going to try and move them over so I can have a more accurate list for you guys according to my games and tournaments.

As of right now the top Characters released in this expansion are White Lantern Deadman, Saint Walker, Indigo-1, Saint Walker, Starfire Crisis and Red Tornado Crisis. Shazam! Crisis is going to be banned due to his Cyborg Crisis like ability.

What are the crisis hero ability?

gerrymul
02-26-2015, 01:23 PM
When Crisis Shazam buys/gains a card with cost 7+ you can put a card cost 1 or greater on the bottom of the main deck from anyone's discard pile. If played in competitive mode you can really mess with other players synergy as it is unavoidable.

Tamahome
02-26-2015, 11:13 PM
Shazam is the best hero. Anyone who says he isnt just isnt a competitive player. He is absurd.

AaronH
02-27-2015, 06:05 AM
Shazam has probably the best potential, but is too inconsistent to really be "the best."

MStreva89
02-27-2015, 08:08 AM
It's just not right to say he's "inconsistent" when he's no more luck based than an opponent hoping that the one card reloading the Line-Up isn't doodoo like the rest is. He's amazing and worth every single drop of Power poured into his ability. He has the highest potential for sure and also the best pay off because no other Character can do what he does at all. The Riddler in Classic wins games if used right, so does Shazam!, end of story.

IAmTheGreat
02-27-2015, 09:26 AM
Shazam is the best hero. Anyone who says he isnt just isnt a competitive player. He is absurd.

You either must be extremely lucky or be playing with a custom deck of all 5+ cost cards to make this statement

BenJazz
02-27-2015, 11:50 AM
You either must be extremely lucky or be playing with a custom deck of all 5+ cost cards to make this statement
I will have to agree with Tamahome, though it may be luck based it can help out if there is filler in the Line-Up or you are just starting the game and get strong, high cost cards. I have seen people use Shazam to pick up Teleportation on second turn or White Lantern Power Batery to start picking the good stuff from the Line-Up.

MStreva89
02-27-2015, 12:22 PM
There are so many bombs that Shazam! can get off his ability that it's worth the gamble every time. Not to mention if you're playing 2 Character variant, he combos amazing with anyone that has a draw effect or with Constantine who allows you to stack even bad cards, just to destroy them with his effect and possibly fish for another.

Whether by cheap game winning strategies or with extremely powerful plays turn after turn, Shazam! will find a way to win. (I've won through Kyle Rayner ring out a few times with Shazam! cause of how easy it is to just avoid touching the Line-Up, therefore guaranteeing yourself the combo pieces)

AaronH
02-27-2015, 09:13 PM
It's just not right to say he's "inconsistent" when he's no more luck based than an opponent hoping that the one card reloading the Line-Up isn't doodoo like the rest is. He's amazing and worth every single drop of Power poured into his ability. He has the highest potential for sure and also the best pay off because no other Character can do what he does at all. The Riddler in Classic wins games if used right, so does Shazam!, end of story.

That opponent hoping for a good card to refill the Line-Up isn't spending their power on an unknown, though. Spending 4 Power to and getting 2-3 cost cards that don't work with your deck is a waste. It's very easy to clutter your deck with useless cards with Shazam.

I stand by my statement that he's an inconsistent character. I love playing as him, but I don't think he's "the best."

destroth
02-28-2015, 05:58 AM
I think the argument regarding the characters here in this thread is very misleading.. I believe while most of us is ranking each characters base on their only ability, MStreva89 is ranking them base on a 2 character 1v1 game play .....

Perhaps the title should be 2 heroes game variant character tier list

Tamahome
03-01-2015, 03:38 PM
Frequently the lineup can brick from there being no cost efficient cards in the lineup. Shazam never has this problem. Also turn 1 you have the potential to buy a game warping card on turn 1. No other character can do this. The average cost of cards in the deck is around 3.5. 4 power to put a card on too of your deck is absurd unless you cut 5+ cards out of your main deck.

AaronH
03-01-2015, 06:15 PM
Also turn 1 you have the potential to buy a game warping card on turn 1.

The key word there is potential, though. The likelihood of him getting that kind of card is tiny. But like I said before, I agree that Shazam has the best potential, his power just relies too much on luck to be reliable. This is why I wouldn't consider him the best.

Tamahome
03-01-2015, 08:13 PM
I mean the only drawback is hitting a 2 cost on top of your deck. Anything 3 or 4 is average anything above is just great on top of your deck. Aquaman himself is a great character, being able to put 5 and less on top from the lineup. And hes a strong character. I can argue all day but i cant convince someone who doesnt want to listen. Every character in the game can have the lineup brick in some way. Shazam is just very very strong.

AaronH
03-01-2015, 09:07 PM
I can argue all day but i cant convince someone who doesnt want to listen.

I could say the same, yes?

And for what it's worth, I never said Shazam wasn't a strong character. I only disagreed with the opinion that he is "the best" in the game.

MStreva89
03-02-2015, 06:56 AM
I've done a lot of testing recently with Shazam! and I will say this, across all game versions, Aquaman is the best and the sole reason for that is Forever Evil is where Shazam! has no say. He's useless in that one game version because he cannot simply powerhouse through the game every turn where as Aquaman can by stacking a 3 or 4 cost destroy card and set up quick loops.

However, Shazam! is definitely the best in Classic and Heroes Unite. If you feel he's too luck based all I can say is you're playing him wrong. I bet money on my claim of Shazam! and currently he hasn't let me down yet.

Furthermore, to those saying he's too much of a gamble, how many times would you call it inconsistent when Shazam! uses his ability for the first ~10 turns of the game and lands something like Heat Vision, Lobo, Kyle Rayner, Mind Control Hat, World's Mightiest Mortal, Teleportation, or some other power card? Just keep that in mind when you say he's inconsistent, cause odds are he's going to get a bomb card after using his ability for 10 turns straight and where the true strength lies is your opponent never even saw it coming and can't do anything about it.

Tuner89
03-02-2015, 09:26 AM
I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding the point of Shazam!

There are a lot of cards in this game that are 'bad' that don't usually fit with the theme of your deck that game, such as Harley Quinn, Deadshot, etc. and those cards eventually flood the line up because no one wants to buy them so they never exit the line up and it's just a matter of time until another 'bad' card is added to the line up. This is why Shazam! is powerful because he can, especially in a 1v1 game, force his opponent to buy cards from the 'bad' line-up while he takes a comparatively low risk gamble off the top of the deck.

If all 5 cards in the line up are 'bad' then buying a card from the top of the deck is only going to be as bad or better, but your opponent is still stuck with the trash line-up you left him.

vbui0803
03-02-2015, 10:08 AM
I do agree Shazam is great in the other games but in forever evil he isn't that great. But I feel it is a conflict between Aquaman and Cyborg for the top overall spot. I just played a tournament as Aquaman and lost against Cyborg. I do like both characters but I am interested in any feedback from people on these two heroes.

LRoq617
03-02-2015, 12:20 PM
I do agree Shazam is great in the other games but in forever evil he isn't that great. But I feel it is a conflict between Aquaman and Cyborg for the top overall spot. I just played a tournament as Aquaman and lost against Cyborg. I do like both characters but I am interested in any feedback from people on these two heroes.

Cyborg is indeed very powerful, but it's pretty much accepted that Aquaman is the better character. He's able to setup a game plan much earlier than Cyborg can (Turn 2 almost guaranteed > Turn 3 at the earliest), and even better, he doesn't have to commit to a particular strategy (Cyborg NEEDS Equipment to be powerful), so he can cut off Cyborg very easily in a 1v1 game.

Granted, if Aquaman does the silly thing and "plays nice" by allowing Cyborg to get the Equipment he wants, then he's risking losing big time, but for the most part, you should really be picking up those Tridents, Batarangs, and Cape and Cowls to make sure he never gets to use them. With that advantage, Aquaman should definitely win.

destroth
03-02-2015, 06:59 PM
Yea in a 1v1 game , card specific character can be quite weak .... Imagine as a Hawkman and not getting a single hero card !

LRoq617
03-03-2015, 05:29 AM
Yea in a 1v1 game , card specific character can be quite weak .... Imagine as a Hawkman and not getting a single hero card !

Mileage varies there. Against another heavy-variance character like Nightwing or Black Canary, Hawkman might end up being just fine, since they likely won't want his Heroes and want to focus on their own cards of choice. Against characters with less variance, however, like Aquaman or Green Lantern, yeah, it can be a bit of a struggle. You just gotta hope for the best.

destroth
03-03-2015, 10:09 AM
Mileage varies there. Against another heavy-variance character like Nightwing or Black Canary, Hawkman might end up being just fine, since they likely won't want his Heroes and want to focus on their own cards of choice. Against characters with less variance, however, like Aquaman or Green Lantern, yeah, it can be a bit of a struggle. You just gotta hope for the best.

Exactly right! Against another card dependent character they score just find , like u mention why would black canary buy the hero card lol ... There's once I played with my fren 1v1 I use green lantern and I think he uses batman ... He quit the game half way through :p

If you've have seen my previous post I give extra credit to less variant characters ... But yet this is a 1v1 gameplay... It's different when more players are involve

Akaless
03-03-2015, 05:28 PM
I think everyone is missing something huge with Harley. Cards like Royal Flush Gang, Superhero Flash, Batmobile, Whirlwind, Mogo, and Penguin, cause the player to discard cards which also activates her ability. So with Flash for example, you'd draw three, discard one, and draw one more. She's very, very strong.

And I think Lex and Wonder Woman are way too dependent on their respective card types consistently being available in the line up. They can be very strong, but if you can't buy their card types for multiple turns, you have no power. Whereas Hawkman and Black Canary can get regular small bonuses off of a few purchases.

destroth
03-03-2015, 05:34 PM
One of my favorite card for Harley is power of the red... And I usually combo that card with daughter of Gotham city ... It's awesome

vbui0803
03-03-2015, 09:29 PM
Harley is good, but I feel there is not enough discard cards for her to work with. Kinda like not many defenses for booster gold. Just my opinion, but yeah? Interested in hearing more feedback for characters to better my gaming. Thanks

LRoq617
03-04-2015, 05:00 AM
I think everyone is missing something huge with Harley. Cards like Royal Flush Gang, Superhero Flash, Batmobile, Whirlwind, Mogo, and Penguin, cause the player to discard cards which also activates her ability. So with Flash for example, you'd draw three, discard one, and draw one more. She's very, very strong.

And I think Lex and Wonder Woman are way too dependent on their respective card types consistently being available in the line up. They can be very strong, but if you can't buy their card types for multiple turns, you have no power. Whereas Hawkman and Black Canary can get regular small bonuses off of a few purchases.

Flash does the same thing with each of those cards except Mogo. AND he goes first. So most things Harley can do, Flash does better. The only real exception, from what I can remember, is Mallet. That card is a borderline bomb for Harley. Forever Evil's Insanity is good as well, I suppose.

destroth
03-04-2015, 06:18 AM
Flash is not necessary weKer than Harley ... During other player turn harley can def and draw a card, including her own turn , she would have 2 additional card ... Sometime I rather have one good hand in 4 turn that could take down a superboss rather than 4 moderate turns

Similarly for Wonder Woman, in the base set , with higher amount of villian she can easily get the chance to buy two straight up and draw 7 card the next turn which probably she should be able to take down the supervillian... Thus keeping the momentum up ... Similar concept for lex

MStreva89
03-04-2015, 09:14 AM
Harley Quinn is not an amazing pick on her own, but if you're playing a 2 Character variant, then she can be absolutely amazing when combined with others who discard: Batgirl, Batgirl Crisis, Green Arrow, Kyle Rayner, White Lantern Deadman, Batman Crisis and even Green Lantern Crisis.

LRoq617
03-04-2015, 09:41 AM
For 1v1 (character vs. character) and not combined, she still struggles, because there really isn't a whole lot she can do that another character can't do plus more (in most cases, Flash). If a future expansion features more capability of the passing of cards (like Mallet and Insanity), then she'll start to have more appeal, because that's really the only unique benefit of her ability right now aside from gaining value from being attacked by forced discard (i.e. Bane, Despero, Constructs of Fear), or counterpicking Crisis Batman, I suppose.

vbui0803
03-14-2015, 12:00 PM
Has anyone considered an updated version of single hero tier list with new lantern heroes from crisis 2 expansion?

destroth
03-14-2015, 11:30 PM
I made some changes to my list in the earlier post of this thread....

MStreva89
03-16-2015, 09:01 AM
I'm working on a few changes for my list that have really been a few eye-openers with the latest week of testing and competitive play. White Lantern Deadman has really made a huge showing whenever a player can't just steam roll his opponent, it just turns sour for him. Our first test with him was a steam rolling, so it made him look bad, but a few games later he really has shown his strength in being able to gauge a player's hand and utilize his best cards to make power plays.

Furthermore we've seen a rise in the power of Saint Walker who quite frankly can be overpowered if he lands the Heroes and good destruction speed.

To finalize, Starfire has been seeing a lot more play, especially as a counter-pick to Starfire Crisis who is crushing the Classic games. Will update my list within a day or so.

ArcaneShadowWolf
04-02-2015, 05:27 AM
Aquaman definitely is pretty good due to his good ability. I ended up beating all super villains very fast during playing survival mode by beating all super villains before time runs out ( all weakness cards being removed every turn ) my fastest time with Aquaman is when I only had 12 weakness cards left on the board, and I tested other base set characters, he pretty much had best time out of the other 7 base set superheroes, Martian manhunter came second place with 2nd best time. Yea Aquamans ability is what makes him combo very fast withing turn 3.

LRoq617
04-02-2015, 10:23 AM
UPDATED to reflect the remaining sets and personal changes.

I'll be looking to update my 1-character ranking list here very soon, with the additions of Crisis 2 and Crossover 1. I've also started including some Crisis and Rival characters for play, primarily Batman 12, Joker 12, Crisis Wonder Woman, Crisis Batman, Crisis Starfire, and Crisis Batgirl. The rest either don't have much of a particular strategy or are severely underpowered IMO (or in one case, banned outright). I'll probably reserve this post for space, but here's how I'd rank the new additions without going too far into detail.

CR = Crisis version.

Banned/Tier 0
Cyborg CR/Shazam CR (Griefs Victory Points = NEVER freakin' happenin', stuck in Crisis Mode forever)

Top/Tier 1
Aquaman (Best turn 2 aside from a lucky Shazam, still combos off better than anyone)
Bane (Insanely aggressive, high potential of killing Supers on turn 3, only downside is horrible long game)
Cyborg (Still absurdly powerful, only slightly better than Indigo-1 because of Kicks)
Starfire (Incredible draw power, only wish she didn't get hosed so easily)
Wildcat (Draws more than Indigo-1 over the course of the game off the same cards, only slightly better)
Indigo-1 (Worse Cyborg aside from a slightly better late game thanks to Supers)
Martian Manhunter (Goes big, but can be griefed, still way too much upside)

High/Tier 2
Shazam (Inconsistent, but if he's even slightly lucky, he's almost unbeatable)
Dr. Fate (Reminds me a lot of Green Lantern, very good draw capability, extremely fun combo character)
Green Lantern (Slightly better than AM, though he prefers long games, only really worse in 4+ player games)
Animal Man (Only slightly worse than Lantern, though his ability will trigger earlier, strong as early as Turn 3)
Batman 12 (Very strong, lots of value in just having a free card nearly every turn)
Joker 12 (About the same as Batman 12, easier ability to trigger, but bricks more often)
Black Adam (Easy triggers, lots of upside to utilizing his potential, but hurt by bad luck)

Upper Mid/Tier 3
Wonder Woman (Only worse than Luthor in Forever Evil, very consistent draw magnet)
Lex Luthor (Strong draw power like Wonder Woman, but worse in most scenarios)
Green Arrow (Very strong early game, ramps quickly, only lacking in draw power)
Saint Walker (High utility, but underperforms vs. Hero/Villain heroes, i.e. Wildcat, MM, Indigo-1)
Wonder Woman CR (Great utility, but only hits 2 card types, lacks in late game aside from Weaknesses)
Starfire CR (Another great utility hero, but a bigger drawback, not many lineup Super Powers)
Batman CR (Pretty insane, would rank higher in 1v1, but this seems correct for games of 3-4 players)

Middle/Tier 4
The Flash (Going first is huge, worse in Forever Evil due to lack of locations that draw)
White Lantern Deadman (Very high potential, but not willing to go higher until I see some actual results)
Black Manta (Arguably strongest Turn 3 in the game, only hurt because he can't bin Kicks like Aquaman)
Nightwing (Slightly better than the 3 below him due to addition of draw power, only truly griefed by Cyborg)
Superman (Slightly above the other 2 due to the fact that he always has a relevant purchase on Turns 1-2)
Hawkman (Slightly better than Canary since ability triggers on multiple instances of same card)
Black Canary (Very strong, better late game than the 2 above her because Super-Villains)

Lower Mid/Tier 5
Batgirl (Most consistent draw ability and flow, just slightly less powerful than her superiors, lacks oomph)
Red Tornado (Great late game character, still works well as early as Turn 4, only griefed by Weaknesses)
Kyle Rainer (High potential combo character, and can anti-grief discard strategies, not great otherwise)
Zatanna (I love this character, but aside from some cool combos and defense abuse, she's a worse Batgirl)
Sinestro (Incredibly high variance, but very explosive, but worsened if ability is shut off by opponents)
Stargirl (Way better version of Booster Gold, but lackluster without <2 solid defense cards, easily cut off)
Booster Gold (Suffers from everyone wanting his designated type, only excels with high cost bombs)

Low/Tier 6
Batman (Horrible vs. better Equipment characters, not enough upside, griefed way too easily)
Swamp Thing (Very bad in 1v1, better with more players, but still most consistent "do nothing" character)
Batgirl CR (Potentially good character, but only excels with discard pile strategies, meh otherwise)
Red Lantern Supergirl (Decent support in BL Green Arrow/Rage Blood, otherwise too dependant on opponent)
Alan Scott (OK ability that's always on unlike Power Girl, but not very impactful, worse Superman)
Power Girl (Ditto, better in 2-character mode when partnered with Batgirl/Green Arrow/Mr. Terrific)
Deathstroke (At his best in Forever Evil, but he gets griefed hard as everyone wants destroy cards)

Bottom/Tier 7
Constantine (Better thanks to Forever Evil, but just a worse Bane/Black Adam, worst "draw" character)
Mr. Terrific (Minimal upgrade or just bricks, needs scrying, worse than all other Equipment characters IMO)
Star Sapphire (Filtering just isn't good enough when it doesn't also trash ala Saint Walker)
Jay Gerrick (Ditto, and arguably has a harder time than Star Sapphire due to lack of available triggers)
Harley Quinn (I want to like this character, but gaining no upside to defending First Appearances hurts a lot)
Bizarro (Too much work, not enough reward, too dependent on opponent, only true bomb is Bizarro Power)
Robin (Worst character hands down, needs 2 card types to work, not nearly enough upside, just awful)

Didn't Bother
Aquaman CR (Does nothing efficient outside of partnering with Bizarro in 2-character mode)
The Flash CR (Really bad aside from going first, still worse than OG Flash, too much work for ability)
Green Lantern CR (Defense on demand is nice, but ability too costly, can't see anyone ever picking him)
Martian Manhunter CR (All that work for such insiginificant payoff? GTFO)
Superman CR (Also not very strong, shelved for reasons similar to Hawkman CR)
Batman 9 (Strictly worse than WW or Luthor, horrible late game)
Joker 9 (Ditto, but still worse due to non-Kick support, would be too good otherwise)
Batman 15/Joker 15 (No ability unless you're into house rules or something)
Black Canary CR (Love her in Crisis, but she's strictly worse than Black Manta elsewhere)
Booster Gold CR (Ability actually does nothing since he can't protect himself)
Hawkman CR (Comparing 2-card draw triggers to characters like Indigo-1 or Cyborg... hardly fair)
Nightwing CR (Absolutely worse than Star Sapphire who's really bad to begin with)
Red Tornado CR (Still considering this one, but man is he ever a lot of work, very skewed on strategies)

Keep in mind, this is strictly a 1-character list; no partnering. Some answers may be a tad skewed towards heads-up play, but a lot of the high ranking characters carry over to 3-4 player games very well. Only Bane is making me stroke my chin a bit, but I'll be sure to evaluate that further in the coming weeks before Arrow and Teen Titans are released.

RayLancer
04-03-2015, 08:20 PM
I just started playing DC Deck Builder so I got curious to see this list. I was disappointed to see Power Girl's and Red Latern's Super Girl ability being not to great in the spoilers.

ArcaneShadowWolf
04-05-2015, 08:07 PM
Yea in a 1v1 game , card specific character can be quite weak .... Imagine as a Hawkman and not getting a single hero card !

That's why I don't always rely on buying or gaining the same card type, because you don't always win like that if you rely on that characters ability too much and yet there isn't much card type of that ability trigger in the line up. It happen to me many times and I learned my lesson. Kept relying on Black Canaries Villain card type ability and very little were in the line up, even when I bought many overtime, I still lost all due to relying of her ability. It's best to mix things up by buying or gaining different card types rather than relying on that characters ability 100% of the time. That character can still dominate with combos without the triggered ability of a certain card type, but being creative of what cards you buy wisely will get you dominating the game. So much into this game is my reason I love these DC building games, many strategies you can do and come up with.