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Phenteo
02-17-2015, 02:12 PM
Hi HEXers!

I just got out of meeting with the leadership and engineers to look up rewards for players who were in tournaments, the tournaments that fired where players won, and anyone who tried logging in before the first tournament launched but were unable to get into the game. We're still getting everything locked down and as soon as I have more information I will let everyone know. Though, it is safe to say, if you participated in the a tournament that completed, we will be rewarding based on the prizing break-down in our announcement here: https://hextcg.com/arena-test-server-its-back/

I also wanted to take some time to clarify a few things over the weekends as it seems expectations were off.

As this was a test server, we needed to have a large amount of players logging in. The reason why we didn't say that we didn't expect the tournament to run was two reasons: it would lower participation levels, and we were hoping it wouldn't break. One of the largest issues for the first tournament was the fact that many players tried logging into the test server for the first time all within the last 30 to 15 minutes before the tournament was set to launch. The main server has ways of handling a large increase in log-ins over a short period of time and the live server is also not auto-granting cards like the test server was. Please don't read this as an excuse or blame on anyone, we're just stating that this is what caused the first tournament to crash.

During this time frame, we got very busy trying to determine several things for the first tournament and going through the data as well as having a meeting. As I was in a meeting the engineers were trying to determine if the first tournament (of over 400 players) would actually resolve itself and continue after the log-ins calmed down or if the tournament would forever be lost. Because of this I wasn't given any information as to whether or not players should leave or stay there, and the answer didn't come right away.

At the same time they wanted to get the tests to go through due to time restrictions, therefore they launched a second tournament which launched relatively quickly and received a little over 30 players. I was specifically told not to advertise this tournament (nor the next) because they wanted a lower attendance. Meanwhile, we still didn't get any information back as to whether players in the first tournament should leave or not. The 30-man tournament ran as expected but wasn't enough people and they wanted to open a third tournament. This was also a tournament they didn't want advertise to try to lower attendance but larger than 30 people. The third tournament got up to 110 people and the tournament concluded later as normal. Around this time, it was determined that players from the first tournament weren't going to get to play as the test server wasn't going to recover. And that is when Roostasaur posted followed up by a post from me.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 02:13 PM
Update: We've been able to come to a final decision on the rewards for the Large-Scale Tournament Test. Please be aware that this only reflects the large-scale tournament and not Arena testing at large.

We will be inserting the rewards into accounts today at 5:30 Pacific (Worldclock (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Large-Scale+Tournament+Reward+Insertion&iso=20150217T173030&p1=137)). This will be automated and you will not receive an in-game mail when the item is inserted.



For players who tried logging in between 8AM and 12PM Pacific, but were not able to get past the loading screen or join a tournament, or joined the largest tournament, will receive 1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket and a set 2 booster pack.
For players who joined the second and/or third tournaments will receive prizes based on the following pay-outs here: https://hextcg.com/arena-test-server-its-back/
4 Wins – 10 Shattered Destiny booster packs
3 Wins – 6 Shattered Destiny booster packs
2 Wins – 3 Shattered Destiny booster packs
1 Win – 2 Shattered Destiny booster packs
0 Wins – 1 Shattered Destiny booster pack


If you participated in both second and third tournaments, your rewards will stack. EXAMPLE: If you won once in the first tournament and won twice in the second tournament, you will be receiving the following rewards: 2 (two) free Constructed Queue Entry Tickets and 5 (five) Shattered Destiny booster packs.

For those of you who just participated in the second and third tournaments and did not win, you will still receive the base prizes for each. 2 (two) free Constructed Queue Entry Tickets and 2 (two) Shattered Destiny booster packs.

Yoss
02-17-2015, 02:17 PM
As this was a test server, we needed to have a large amount of players logging in. The reason why we didn't say that we didn't expect the tournament to run was two reason: it would lower participation levels, and we were hoping it wouldn't break. One of the largest issues for the first tournament was the fact that many players tried logging into the test server for the first time all within the last 30 to 15 minutes before the tournament was set to launch. The main server has ways of handling a large increase in log-ins over a short period of time and the live server is also not auto-granting cards like the test server was. Please don't read this as an excuse or blame on anyone, we're just stating that this is what caused the first tournament to crash.

Thank you for this.

hammer
02-17-2015, 02:22 PM
Thanks Phenteo I was lucky to join the second pool it was good fun. I am glad the data was useful and its helpful to understand why the first event failed, and a glimpse of the behind the scene action which caused a small comms blackout. I came to test but I think the majority came to game.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 02:27 PM
I came to test but I think the majority came to game.
Ultimately, it was a culmination of players wanting to participate in a large tournament. We're just as frustrated, but these tests help us out. This tournament server is actually brand new coding and communications back-end and it looks very promising for the future. This was the reason why we had it on the test server though, to test. Moving forward, it may lower attendance but if/when we do another large-scale tournament test, we will drive it home that it will be a test and we hope that you will be able to play but expect it to have a hang-up as we work through everything.

Chocmaw
02-17-2015, 02:51 PM
Moving forward, it may lower attendance but if/when we do another large-scale tournament test, we will drive it home that it will be a test and we hope that you will be able to play but expect it to have a hang-up as we work through everything.

Should comfortably hit 100+ :)

Thanks for the update.

Talso
02-17-2015, 03:13 PM
Change the "it will be a test and we hope that you will be able to play but expect it to have a hang-up as we work through everything."
to " it will be a test and we hope that you will be able to play but expect it to have a hang-up as we work through everything and we will inform you ingame when itīs broken, to let you decide if you want to stay or leave" and Iīm happy.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 03:15 PM
we will inform you ingame when itīs broken, to let you decide if you want to stay or leave"
That was impossible as we tried. The chat was brought down for the test and there was an issue with the broadcast tool.

Talso
02-17-2015, 03:25 PM
Phenteo: "there was an issue with the broadcast tool. "

Ok thanks for THIS info and the explanations you are offering at the start of the thread. That makes up a lot for me.

Zophie
02-17-2015, 03:25 PM
I think some people came into the Test Server expecting it to be like this:

http://i.imgur.com/lcNgpAj.gif


But instead they came in and got this:

http://i.imgur.com/YUh4Rng.gif


I knew what to expect and I got a bit of both, and had a good time even with the problems and delays. Glad I could help with the testing!

OutlandishMatt
02-17-2015, 03:25 PM
You could always reward people based on attendance and not participation? That way people will show up whether or not the tournament successfully concludes.

And I still think it's best to reward people with sleeves or mercenaries and for the rewards not to be exclusive to one event but more a testing season. Like right now it should be "Frost Ring Arena Season". And maybe reward sleeves with Hogarth on them or something.

Raith
02-17-2015, 03:37 PM
I participated in both the large scale tests last year, so my expectations were to play this one if able but not be disappointed if it didn't fire. In both of the previous tests, we were informed pretty quickly that the tourneys were dead. Less info this time makes sense given the problems with chat and the broadcast tool. Even without feedback, the first big tourney was obviously broken so I quit out after a half hour or so. I'm happy it was useful on the coding end as well learning something regarding player expectations.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 04:21 PM
Updated the second post to reflect rewards pay-out and time the items will be inserted into accounts: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=41193&p=458915&viewfull=1#post458915

Update: We've been able to come to a final decision on the rewards for the Large-Scale Tournament Test. Please be aware that this only reflects the large-scale tournament and not Arena testing at large.

We will be inserting the rewards into accounts today at 5:30 Pacific (Worldclock (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Large-Scale+Tournament+Reward+Insertion&iso=20150217T173030&p1=137)). This will be automated and you will not receive an in-game mail when the item is inserted.



For players who tried logging in between 8AM and 12PM Pacific, but were not able to get past the loading screen or join a tournament, or joined the largest tournament, will receive 1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket.
For players who joined the second and/or third tournaments will receive prizes based on the following pay-outs here: https://hextcg.com/arena-test-server-its-back/
4 Wins – 10 Shattered Destiny booster packs
3 Wins – 6 Shattered Destiny booster packs
2 Wins – 3 Shattered Destiny booster packs
1 Win – 2 Shattered Destiny booster packs
0 Wins – 1 Shattered Destiny booster pack


If you participated in both second and third tournaments, your rewards will stack. EXAMPLE: If you won once in the first tournament and won twice in the second tournament, you will be receiving the following rewards: 2 (two) free Constructed Queue Entry Tickets and 5 (five) Shattered Destiny booster packs.

For those of you who just participated in the second and third tournaments and did not win, you will still receive the base prizes for each. 2 (two) free Constructed Queue Entry Tickets and 2 (two) Shattered Destiny booster packs.

OutlandishMatt
02-17-2015, 04:28 PM
I participated in both the large scale tests last year, so my expectations were to play this one if able but not be disappointed if it didn't fire. In both of the previous tests, we were informed pretty quickly that the tourneys were dead. Less info this time makes sense given the problems with chat and the broadcast tool. Even without feedback, the first big tourney was obviously broken so I quit out after a half hour or so. I'm happy it was useful on the coding end as well learning something regarding player expectations.

I'm fine with everything, until they fire off secret tournaments that award prizes while others can't even get logged in. It's one thing to have a tournament that doesn't fire and everyone gets rewarded the same prize but it's another to not have it fire, start two secret tournaments and award prizes based on that.

What I think should have probably happened is a tweet and a forum post should have informed everyone that the first tournament failed and then they should have launched new, 128 player sealed tournaments for testing. Instead, they fired off two secret tournaments, alienating at LEAST 300 players and causing a 22 page forum thread.

schnaffman
02-17-2015, 04:29 PM
I also wanted to take some time to clarify a few things over the weekends as it seems expectations were off.

Agreed, some expectations as to playability and general stability of a test server might have been off. However, the crew at Hex Entertainment is also often overly-enthusiastic when they start announcing things and promising things, and that is partly responsible in us having wrong expectations.

Let's see just one very simple expectation that was set at https://hextcg.com/arena-test-server-its-back/


Prizes will be distributed to your live accounts at 5 PM Pacific on Monday, February 16th.

That seems very simple. However, it turns out that Feb 16th is a day off at Hex Entertainment, so there was no way to honor this once again very simple expectation. Hex Ent. is delivering this simple thing one day late, not because of technical glitches or tournaments crashing, but because they are overly enthusiastic and promise things they would have known they can't deliver if they only would have given it some thought. I don't like being cynical, and I bet most people don't like it either. However, how can we believe any date or timeframe that is given to us when stuff like this happens?

Cory telling us about his dream and what Hex will be one day is ok, that's what visionaries do, and he has the sense to keep targets vague (e.g. VERY SOON!). I would however expect the crew that deals with the day to day operations to have better foresight and be more careful when providing hard dates.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 04:34 PM
What I think should have probably happened is a tweet and a forum post should have informed everyone that the first tournament failed and then they should have launched new, 128 player sealed tournaments for testing. Instead, they fired off two secret tournaments, alienating at LEAST 300 players and causing a 22 page forum thread.


At the same time they wanted to get the tests to go through due to time restrictions, therefore they launched a second tournament which launched relatively quickly and received a little over 30 players. I was specifically told not to advertise this tournament (nor the next) because they wanted a lower attendance. Meanwhile, we still didn't get any information back as to whether players in the first tournament should leave or not. The 30-man tournament ran as expected but wasn't enough people and they wanted to open a third tournament. This was also a tournament they didn't want advertise to try to lower attendance but larger than 30 people.




However, it turns out that Feb 16th is a day off at Hex Entertainment, so there was no way to honor this once again very simple expectation. .
We actually were going to insert prizes on that day (regardless of the holiday). The issue was is that it required more work to reward any issues (login issues, multiple tournaments, and large tournament crash) that happened from what originally was expected. Because of this, we had to delay until today.

I hope that helps clear things up.

parogui
02-17-2015, 04:51 PM
I don't mind getting just a ticket, I'm not even expecting something in return as I like to support you guys in testing, but I think you're going to alienate a lot of people by giving the rewards to second and third tournaments when they were almost secret. Just wanted to point that before lots of people come in complaining that they don't even get a single pack for joining tournament one.

OutlandishMatt
02-17-2015, 05:09 PM
At the same time they wanted to get the tests to go through due to time restrictions, therefore they launched a second tournament which launched relatively quickly and received a little over 30 players. I was specifically told not to advertise this tournament (nor the next) because they wanted a lower attendance. Meanwhile, we still didn't get any information back as to whether players in the first tournament should leave or not. The 30-man tournament ran as expected but wasn't enough people and they wanted to open a third tournament. This was also a tournament they didn't want advertise to try to lower attendance but larger than 30 people. The third tournament got up to 110 people and the tournament concluded later as normal. Around this time, it was determined that players from the first tournament weren't going to get to play as the test server wasn't going to recover. And that is when Roostasaur posted followed up by a post from me.

I understand what your engineers wanted, but I don't think that makes it right for the player base. I think the engineers and anyone else that is involved with testing needs to understand that we (your customers) set aside time to test your game and help you make leaps and bounds beyond your time frame by doing that and we need to stay informed while we do that. You also need to not exclude your player base, especially when prizes are being distributed.

I would suggest that the next time the engineers want that data they coordinate with FiveShards.com or HexTechs.tv and have them run a community tournament on the test server. If it crashes then oh well and that site can reschedule and run it on the live server. If it succeeds then the engineers get lots and lots of data!

I think you have a plethora of testers that will test for you without compensation just knowing they're making a difference and helping the game advance, look at all the fansites you have! Heck, make a private test server for the top 200 players based on connection time. I wouldn't make that cut but I'm happy with the most dedicated players getting the first look and testing bugs.

Yoda
02-17-2015, 05:25 PM
I don't mind getting just a ticket, I'm not even expecting something in return as I like to support you guys in testing, but I think you're going to alienate a lot of people by giving the rewards to second and third tournaments when they were almost secret. Just wanted to point that before lots of people come in complaining that they don't even get a single pack for joining tournament one.

Agree.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 05:32 PM
I don't mind getting just a ticket, I'm not even expecting something in return as I like to support you guys in testing, but I think you're going to alienate a lot of people by giving the rewards to second and third tournaments when they were almost secret. Just wanted to point that before lots of people come in complaining that they don't even get a single pack for joining tournament one.

If you just joined one tournament, you do get a booster pack as well.

Cecil578
02-17-2015, 05:39 PM
So all the people that was patiently awaiting word on weither or not it was okay to quit the 1st tournament, the SCHEDULED tournament is getting less rewards/compensation than the ppl that quit it / logged in later and stumbled over the 2nd and or 3rd Tournaments?

I am all for testing, and love this game more than any other TCG... but this is just plain wrong.

I logged into the test server, and was in chat for like 2hours, patiently(at first) waiting word on what to do.. Ingame name Suiko, I bugged Roostasaur enuff that he prob remember me... I didnt want to leave the 1st tournament as we'd been told you were getting valuable data from us being in it.. And this is how we are rewarded? the ppl that quit it / logged in later get more rewards? *sigh*

That is just plain wrong.

I've said my peace about it... but I am seriously dissapointed.

taveren
02-17-2015, 05:44 PM
seems like it would be nice to give the people that tryed to play the sealed but weren't able to get in to the later ones a sealed ticket or something extra that the people that did get in or were lucky and happened to see the secret one in time don't get so they have a chance to earn rewards also

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 06:03 PM
So all the people that was patiently awaiting word on weither or not it was okay to quit the 1st tournament, the SCHEDULED tournament is getting less rewards/compensation than the ppl that quit it / logged in later and stumbled over the 2nd and or 3rd Tournaments?

To be clear, this is not compensation. People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament. Therefore there is a greater reward in that. We promised that anyone competing in the tournaments would get rewards based on how many wins they received. We went ahead and included that everyone who was stuck in a tournament or tried logging in be included in the rewards for testing. This is very generous as we're giving these rewards to over 1,500 players.

I do understand your point of view, that you seem to be getting less, but situations happen and there would be no fair outcome in this scenario. Those who actively paid attention and had to play longer would complain that players who didn't do anything except try to log in or just sit there are getting as much as they are. We are trying to do right by the players and we feel this is more than just saying, "Hey, thanks for testing!"


the secret one

There was no secret tournament. Secret tournament implies we either knowingly were going to launch said tournaments or we only told some people with the intention that only they could attend. These were unannounced tournaments that we HAD to run due to the issues that were caused with the original tournament coupled with the fact that we would have similar issues we we had too large of attendance and that the in-game broadcast system wasn't working.

taveren
02-17-2015, 06:12 PM
what was there to pay attention to. the tournament showed up and fired without an announcement and chat was disabled on the test server so no way for the word to get out and people who were staying in the first tournament had no way of knowing short of logging on to the main server at the same time. i'm not trying be be mean or anything just pointing it out. i've been in every test you guys have done so far and it seems people get free stuff because of luck while others who are also trying to help test get little to nothing.
sadly i've always been on the unlucky side of things not that it will stop me from helped test in the future or loving this game so far

Cephied
02-17-2015, 06:22 PM
Constructed Queue is 1 free booster pack for 0 wins anyway, so I'm fine with that. I'll probably just join one and leave right after it fires.


People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament. Therefore there is a greater reward in that.

Edit :The lack of communication while sitting in the first tournament was an issue though. Those of us stuck there had no way of knowing there were more tournaments fired off. People are just annoyed that if they had known, they would have been able to play in the 2nd or 3rd tournament for a chance at more packs. It's not like people that just sat there in the first tournament *wanted* to just sit there and do nothing.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 06:35 PM
Rewards have been inserted into your accounts on the live server! DataDragon just confirmed that the script went through.

katkillad
02-17-2015, 06:46 PM
Did people who dropped out not get counted for rewards? That's fine if so, but what was delivered to me isn't what was conveyed with the prize message if things were supposed to stack. Not trying to game the system or anything, I didn't expect anything more than 1 constructed ticket.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 06:49 PM
Did people who dropped out not get counted for rewards? That's fine if so, but what was delivered to me isn't what was conveyed with the prize message if things were supposed to stack. Not trying to game the system or anything, I didn't expect anything more than 1 constructed ticket.

If you logged in, tried logging in, or got into the first large tournament, you should have received 1 constructed ticket and 1 booster pack. If not, please send me a PM so I can look into it. Thanks!

Cyandrel
02-17-2015, 06:50 PM
I was in the 130-odd person tourney, had a 2-2 record (things got a little odd with the server towards the end, but that's what was reported in the message when the tourney officially ended, at rank 41/13x), but ended up with the rewards for 0 wins (1 pack and 1 ticket). That's all well and good if there's no way to verify any discrepancies, since the rewards were distributed via script, but figured you'd want to know in case there aren't just a couple isolated cases.

nicosharp
02-17-2015, 06:50 PM
Rewards have been inserted into your accounts on the live server! DataDragon just confirmed that the script went through.
Who do we contact if it hasn't? I see partial for the 447man tourney that failed, but the 4-0 rewards for the second 110man never hit my account.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 06:51 PM
I was in the 130-odd person tourney, had a 2-2 record (things got a little odd with the server towards the end, but that's what was reported in the message when the tourney officially ended, at rank 41/13x), but ended up with the rewards for 0 wins (1 pack and 1 ticket). That's all well and good if there's no way to verify any discrepancies, since the rewards were distributed via script, but figured you'd want to know in case there aren't just a couple isolated cases.
Could you PM me with your in-game username? Thanks!

enrofenrir
02-17-2015, 06:52 PM
i dont mean to be greed but i only got 1 ticket and 1 pack from the first tournament but i was in the 2nd tournament that went with 34 people and did not get any prizes from the 2nd tournament

katkillad
02-17-2015, 06:53 PM
i dont mean to be greed but i only got 1 ticket and 1 pack from the first tournament but i was in the 2nd tournament that went with 34 people and did not get any prizes from the 2nd tournament

Yea this is kind of what I was hinting at, I was in all 3 but didn't play out the second or third tournament. I was more pointing it out that there could be something wrong with the script or whatever.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 06:56 PM
I'm breathing over DataDragon's shoulder. We're looking into the discrepancies. Hang tight!

enrofenrir
02-17-2015, 06:57 PM
I'm breathing over DataDragon's shoulder. We're looking into the discrepancies. Hang tight!

don't breath to hard we do not want to computer to melt

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 07:15 PM
DataDragon went through and worked it all out! Please relog on the live server and double-check. But everything should be there now. :)

OutlandishMatt
02-17-2015, 07:16 PM
There was no secret tournament. Secret tournament implies we either knowingly were going to launch said tournaments or we only told some people with the intention that only they could attend. These were unannounced tournaments that we HAD to run due to the issues that were caused with the original tournament coupled with the fact that we would have similar issues we we had too large of attendance and that the in-game broadcast system wasn't working.

I think the best analogy I can give is there were 447 people waiting in line to be checked out at Wal-Mart. Rather than you tell the 447 people waiting in line that the cash register was broke and that you opened up a new register, you just did it. You flipped on your lane light, let 30+ people line up and flipped it off. Then you waited an amount of time, flipped another lane light on, let 100+ people line up then flipped it off. At no time did you get on the intercom and tell your CUSTOMERS that another line was open. You see the problem here right? No one was talking to the active, in the game, community. I do not care about the why we weren't told, I only care that we weren't told anything, anywhere.


The 30-man tournament ran as expected but wasn't enough people and they wanted to open a third tournament... The third tournament got up to 110 people and the tournament concluded later as normal.

This is very generous as we're giving these rewards to over 1,500 players.

And the fact that you're pointing out maybe 150 people out of the 1,500 were able to participate in what you are considering is the ANNOUNCED tournaments is absurd. That's 90% that was excluded! 90%!

I will always support the game Hex, but the decisions that are made I sometimes cannot. This is one of those decisions. Planning has to be better. Execution has to be better. And communication has to be better.

Edit: I'm literally laughing at how frustrated I am at this and I can't explain why. I don't care about the packs. I just give them all away anyways. But the approach and exclusion of participation just irks me. It makes me laugh at how worked up I am over this.

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 07:24 PM
Planning has to be better. Execution has to be better. And communication has to be better.

It was brand new tournament code that you were testing out. It went pretty well all things considered.

Your expectations need to change for this scenario. You were there for testing, this isn't an actual tournament. We've explained numerous times as to why communication was the way it was. I understand you're frustrated but you need to take a breath and re-think what occurred. That being said, we felt we wanted to extend a reward to every player who didn't even get a chance to get into the first large tournament. Keep in mind that all the data we received helps the devs tremendously no matter what stage players were at. Some players had to remain in longer and we promised rewards for players who were able to place.

This is also a perception issue, I can't necessarily change your view of this situation, but I am asking that you take a step back an re-evaluate what has been said in my original post. On a side note, this is the same style of argument used when giveaways are done. Some people who just end up being in a lucky position of being able to receive more, but we decided to reward everyone who at least tried to help us test.

nicosharp
02-17-2015, 07:24 PM
DataDragon went through and worked it all out! Please relog on the live server and double-check. But everything should be there now. :)
Looking good! Thanks for being so generous, despite the confusing circumstances for all.

register50
02-17-2015, 07:32 PM
Do you plan to test another new Large-Scale tournament?

Phenteo
02-17-2015, 07:37 PM
Do you plan to test another new Large-Scale tournament?
I am sure we would like to. But I have to wait on further information from the devs.

Rycajo
02-17-2015, 08:53 PM
I love Hex, but I agree with Outlandish that the mode of rewarding testers was backwards for this round of testing.

The problem is expectations, as already identified by Phenteo. Expectations for this tournament were set that players would receive greater rewards for greater in-game performance within the testing. Some players were unable to perform in-game at all, through no fault of their own, and were given smaller rewards than those who lucked into a position where they were able to perform in-game. (and receive greater rewards). It should be no surprise to Hex Entertainment that some members of the community are upset because the results did not match the expectation.

I don't care much about the rewards myself, and I was too busy with family stuff to truly participate either way, but my plea to Hex Entertainment would be to have the future testing rewards support the desired expectations of the testing group.

nicosharp
02-17-2015, 09:03 PM
You can't make everyone happy. It's funny that the main complaint is that some people got lucky, when others did not. This is a game of RNG afterall.

Good:
-People are getting rewarded - some that did not even load into the client
-There will be future tests that reward the playerbase for free, until they get it right

Bad:
-Players could not login
-The initial tournament never fired
-The subsequent tournaments were not advertised
-Test Server chat was disabled, so no one was informed in-game
-No one was informed on the forums, or in the main hex client, or through any other means of communication regarding Saturday's status.
-People scheduled/saved time to test for prizes, and essentially underperformed based on circumstances they could not control.

Jemy000
02-17-2015, 09:34 PM
Outlandish Matt covered a lot of bases, and I agree with all he said, but there are so many more ways in which what happened Saturday was obnoxious. Most notably the lack of communication. 45 minutes after the first tournament had started roostasaurus was still telling us he had no info about if it were still happening, if there'd be a second tournament, if we should continue staring at the loading screen... ridiculous. By that point (and probably 30 mins earlier) we should've been told we were out of luck.

To be clear, this is not compensation. People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and
sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament. Therefore there is a greater reward in that. We promised that anyone competing in the tournaments would get rewards based on how many wins they received. We went ahead and included that everyone who was stuck in a tournament or tried logging in be included in the rewards for testing. This is very generous as we're giving these rewards to over 1,500 players.

This is not generous. This is giving away far far less than Hex would have if those 1500 people had been able to participate in the tournament. Also I spent 3 hours being annoyed instead of playing the game I love and came to play, so I deserve less compensation? That doesn't seem right.


There was no secret tournament. Secret tournament implies we either knowingly were going to launch said tournaments or we only told some people with the intention that only they could attend. These were unannounced tournaments that we HAD to run due to the issues that were caused with the original tournament coupled with the fact that we would have similar issues we we had too large of attendance and that the in-game broadcast system wasn't working.

They were unannounced tournaments that only some people could attend. That is a secret tournament. You HAD to run more tournaments? No. You chose to run more tournaments. You could have announced it on the live server where most of the players were waiting for info, but chose not to.

Like Matt said, I'm not in a situation where I'm desperate for a pack or two. I really don't care about that. The generally disrespectful attitude towards the players and our time is what irks me.

Velorath
02-17-2015, 10:20 PM
As this was a test server, we needed to have a large amount of players logging in. The reason why we didn't say that we didn't expect the tournament to run was two reasons: it would lower participation levels, and we were hoping it wouldn't break.



Your expectations need to change for this scenario. You were there for testing, this isn't an actual tournament.

So we should go in with the expectations you deliberately didn't want people to have, and assume that things are going to break, which you didn't tell us because you were optimistic that they might not break? And while we should assume that things might break because "test server", you guys didn't have any contingency planned for the communication tools on said test server breaking also (to say nothing of the fact that in-game communication does nothing to help the people who can't get in game).

Also:


To be clear, this is not compensation. People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament.

This is just flat out insulting. I don't care that people who got into tournaments are getting the proper rewards but the attitude that everyone else was just sitting around and waiting don't deserve as much as people who had to suffer through actually being able to play is a tad infuriating. Do you honestly think people we're just sitting around and waiting because they just weren't enterprising enough? Those that could actually get into the game were waiting on some word from you guys, which by your own admission you didn't give them for quite a while because you didn't want a lot of people to join the 2nd and 3rd tournaments.

I really don't care that much that I didn't get into a tournament, or spent an hour of my time trying to get into the game. I have a lot of fun with Hex, I draft several times a week, and I'm looking forward to the PVE. I expect some speedbumps along the way. The problem I have is entirely with the communication and the degree to which you're trying to justify a lack of communication, and misleading communication.

mvcaposino
02-17-2015, 10:37 PM
I understand what your engineers wanted, but I don't think that makes it right for the player base. I think the engineers and anyone else that is involved with testing needs to understand that we (your customers) set aside time to test your game and help you make leaps and bounds beyond your time frame by doing that and we need to stay informed while we do that. You also need to not exclude your player base, especially when prizes are being distributed.

I would suggest that the next time the engineers want that data they coordinate with FiveShards.com or HexTechs.tv and have them run a community tournament on the test server. If it crashes then oh well and that site can reschedule and run it on the live server. If it succeeds then the engineers get lots and lots of data!

I think you have a plethora of testers that will test for you without compensation just knowing they're making a difference and helping the game advance, look at all the fansites you have! Heck, make a private test server for the top 200 players based on connection time. I wouldn't make that cut but I'm happy with the most dedicated players getting the first look and testing bugs.


I feel very similar to this. I dont want to fuss much but I think its important that my voice is heard. I could have gotten into both the 2nd and 3rd tournaments that fired but i thought the test was done and could not get info to the contrary, I tried. It is just very frustrating to have others get special treatment for arbitrarily sticking around and waiting on they off chance more tourneys fired off. I would have done the same but i was mistaken that some sort of announcement would have occurred. I am glad good data was received from this test however in the future it would be nice if things were handled differently. I am fine with taking time out of my day to help test regardless of prizes but when prizes are out there i have greater chance for disappointment when things like this happen.

Kroan
02-18-2015, 01:37 AM
You know what? Never mind. I'm too depressed by this whole thing to type out my thoughts.

Cecil578
02-18-2015, 01:57 AM
To be clear, this is not compensation. People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament. .

Sat and waited?... I popped up my laptop, logged into live server and watched chat, talked, and asked Roostasaur what to do. I followed your posts on the forum.. I didnt just SIT around waiting, I was TOLD to wait and do nothing. Pfft.

More enterprising, you mean ppl that quit the first tourney without word that it was okay? and then happened to stumble onto your SECRET / extra tournaments.. *sigh*

Whats done is done for this time around tho.. but if this lack of communication happens again, resulting in some lucky few quitters / late commers playing and not the ppl actually being on time and staying...then I am done helping you guys test. (been playing/testing since alpha)

a-V-e-n
02-18-2015, 04:53 AM
I so regret staying in the first large sealed till it got shut down :/

I thought there's a chance something would come out of it as despite massive 15 minutes+ delays the rounds (1 and 2) were actually starting and wins were earned. The tournament was an obvious train wreck but I thought me staying in it helped in testing the servers and I expected round 3 to go much smoother as most players have dropped by then. But the tournament got shut down some time after round 2 and by then the 2nd and 3rd smaller sealeds have already started so I had no chance of entering. Disappointed at wasting my hours in such inefficient way when I could have done better for myself if I dropped earlier.

I don't want any additional compensation, just better communication in the future and/or better reward structure for doing things that actually help (assuming the data collected from players who stayed till the end of round 2 was collected and is any useful)

Incindium
02-18-2015, 05:34 AM
It was pretty obvious that the only proper way to hand out rewards for last weekend was to just give everyone the same thing for participating but you managed to bungle that pretty well. The lack of communication and the poor handling of these type of issues has become a disturbing repeated pattern with community relations and Hex.

KingGabriel
02-18-2015, 08:05 AM
I deeply question why people are getting so angry about getting less prizes for quintessentially a stress test. No, this may not have been stated in the tournament name but considering it took place on the arena test server, I think putting that one together isn't too far of a stretch. As potentially the only person complaining about the level of "compensation" for the previous free tournaments; let me expand my viewpoint.

Those of you who have participated in the last set of free tournaments, some of which I see complaining, should have expected at least some disruption. There was another free community run tournament at the same time that you could have participated in if you were unwilling to help test the servers for a chance at prizes (And yes, I would still complain these are too high, although potentially not as high as the 1400p worth of tickets given last time)

New players should have at least been aware of the possibility of things misfiring, and giving rewards solely for attendance I feel would lead to people merely entering and then closing the client. An example of this kind of laziness already damaging gameplay can be seen in proving grounds where complaints of people afking the entire game. Yes, a breakdown in communication is frustrating, but when the broadcast tool just wasn't working, the inability to inform people directly at the event is obviously going to cause issues.

These kind of tests are necessary for the ability to fire tournaments such as the pro player kickstarter tournament.

Sidenote: I find the idea of exclusive rewards for this event "failing" ludicrous as here is a sample of conversation I would expect to happen "Nice sleeves, where did you get from them" "Server broke during a large tournament" "Oh...".

DocX
02-18-2015, 08:09 AM
Phenteo, thanks for the "tick tock" of what happened. Transparency is good and much appreciated.

I was going to post here quibbling about the reward for folks in the first tournament. "I spent all that time and all I got was a lousy ticket instead of a pack or two. I wanted Sealed and now I have to do Constructed and if I lose my first match all I get is gold. Blah blah blah!"

Turns out looking at the regular Swiss Constructed tournament 0 or 1 win will get you a Shattered Destiny Booster and 5k gold. This is more than I expected to get from the test tournament (because I'm not a very good player :-) so big thanks to the HexEnt crew for a) being transparent in what happened and b) giving reasonable rewards for the help.

plaguedealer
02-18-2015, 09:46 AM
I hope they learned alot from this stress test. One important lession is don't use the tournament reward system if there is a good probabilty that the servers will be stressed to over capacity (which they always are).

When pve wlhits live servers, it will be interesting to see how pve tournaments handle the server load.

Yoss
02-18-2015, 10:39 AM
People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament. Therefore there is a greater reward in that. We promised that anyone competing in the tournaments would get rewards based on how many wins they received. We went ahead and included that everyone who was stuck in a tournament or tried logging in be included in the rewards for testing. This is very generous as we're giving these rewards to over 1,500 players.


This is just flat out insulting. I don't care that people who got into tournaments are getting the proper rewards but the attitude that everyone else was just sitting around and waiting don't deserve as much as people who had to suffer through actually being able to play is a tad infuriating. Do you honestly think people we're just sitting around and waiting because they just weren't enterprising enough?
This.


Sat and waited?... I popped up my laptop, logged into live server and watched chat, talked, and asked Roostasaur what to do. I followed your posts on the forum.. I didnt just SIT around waiting, I was TOLD to wait and do nothing. Pfft.

More enterprising, you mean ppl that quit the first tourney without word that it was okay? and then happened to stumble onto your SECRET / extra tournaments.. *sigh*
And this.


I deeply question why people are getting so angry about getting less prizes for quintessentially a stress test. No, this may not have been stated in the tournament name but considering it took place on the arena test server, I think putting that one together isn't too far of a stretch. As potentially the only person complaining about the level of "compensation" for the previous free tournaments; let me expand my viewpoint.
To me it is not about the level of compensation. It's the quote above, where Hex basically tells me I'm a second-rate customer who needs to be "more enterprising" next time around, despite the fact that I spent the entire two+ hours doing nothing other than scour the forums, chat, guild chat, and any other source I could find to figure out what the hell was going on. Velorath had it right: "this is just flat out insulting". I don't care about 1 extra booster or 10 extra boosters. I care about being treated respectfully as a customer who has put many hundreds of dollars into this game, not to mention many hundreds of hours playing and working on making Hex better, nor to mention my trips to Hex HQ to check it out first hand and give feedback.


Those of you who have participated in the last set of free tournaments, some of which I see complaining, should have expected at least some disruption. There was another free community run tournament at the same time that you could have participated in if you were unwilling to help test the servers for a chance at prizes (And yes, I would still complain these are too high, although potentially not as high as the 1400p worth of tickets given last time)
Yep. I did expect it, and while it was happening, I figured it was just going to be the same story as last time where everyone who came to help out with a free donation of time was compensated equally when things went belly up. I came to help with testing, knowing that pass or fail I'd be treated fairly in return.

Too bad it's not working out that way.

funktion
02-18-2015, 11:09 AM
I would suggest that the next time the engineers want that data they coordinate with FiveShards.com or HexTechs.tv and have them run a community tournament on the test server. If it crashes then oh well and that site can reschedule and run it on the live server. If it succeeds then the engineers get lots and lots of data!


That would only make matters worse. Hosting these community events for these guys (fiveshards / hextechs is an enormous amount of work. To reschedule them not just the day of but at the literal last minute is a lot easier said than done. Not to mention that hosting them on the test server only creates a host of new issues:

-Currently the only way to run community events is through the proving ground. The feature that needs to be tested is the unlimited size tournaments. I assume you suggest that fiveshards host the unlimited size one? Why is that necessary when it doesn't add anything? At that point they'd really just be sponsoring something that the HEX team was actually hosting.
-Challonge would not be necessary in the test environment but it would be for the live one. You'd still need everyone to sign up for it "just in case" the test one doesn't work out.
-If the tournament missfires people will still expect to be given stuff (as is shown by this thread) and now fiveshards has to either take a PR hit or they are giving out product that will diminish future prize pools.
-Having people switch from the test server to the live one after the test one breaks would create quite a few delays for the live tournament. What if the test server only breaks for some people but not others? Now how do they rectify that people are playing in both?
-Having delays to the live tournament is no joke. Many of the events go on for ~6-8 hours, adding another hour onto that is a pretty big deal.
-Even the most popular / well-attended fiveshards & hextechs tournaments PALE in comparison to the test server turnout. Over double, probably closer to triple the total number of people / accounts.
-Cancelling a community event at the last minute rather than a day or so in advance is really rough, not just for the public but for the guys hosting it. Many of these guys are either up at hours they would normally be sleeping or taking time off work so that they can host a free event for us to enjoy with prizes that are either coming out of their pockets or the rest of the communities'. I wouldn't want to put the hosts through that, it would just be really de-motivating and draining.

There are a number of other reasons why that's a REALLY bad idea, these are just a few.



Yep. I did expect it, and while it was happening, I figured it was just going to be the same story as last time where everyone who came to help out with a free donation of time was compensated equally when things went belly up. I came to help with testing, knowing that pass or fail I'd be treated fairly in return.

Too bad it's not working out that way.

Originally, they had one option (#1) and now they have a second (#2) as well:
#1: Just give everyone that entered the tournament or was online at the time a ticket for free entry. Doesn't matter if the tourney worked or not, this is what you get.

#2: Payout the folks that it did work for based on their performance within the tournament. It might not have worked for everyone, but it did work for some. They kept playing for the duration of the tournament.

The best part? They can use #1 AND #2 both, and they did. This is improvement. What you're asking for (or at least it appears to me this way) is that they just don't use the new option available to them. This was something which seemingly was not possible before but is now. This is progress, and people are upset over it. What was unfair about the situation? That other folks who were lucky enough to be able to play in the tournaments were able to get the rewards for playing in it? Sure it sucks to be unlucky but in this case you got the same exact rewards that you would have gotten in every other of these past test tournaments.

Other folks got something additional this time, and the people here who are not part of that "other" group are upset that they weren't. Don't be upset over other people's success / rewards. It isn't something you have any control over.

Just be happy that they have a test server they can hold these on, and that it doesn't impact the live environment so that you're able to continue playing there. Particularly if you want to participate in free community run events with generous prizes that are being run the exact same day.

spankydonkey
02-18-2015, 11:36 AM
[QUOTE=Phenteo;458991]Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament.

I find this sentence here very insulting indeed.
Perhaps you would be good enough to explain, how I could have been more enterprising?
Because as far as I can see the only way anyone would know about sealed tournament 2 or 3.
Would be by:
A: Not signing up to play sealed tournament 1.
B: Leaving sealed tournament 1, almost straight away, after it should of fired.

EntropyBall
02-18-2015, 12:12 PM
People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on ended up being there a lot longer as they played in a tournament. Therefore there is a greater reward in that. We promised that anyone competing in the tournaments would get rewards based on how many wins they received. We went ahead and included that everyone who was stuck in a tournament or tried logging in be included in the rewards for testing. This is very generous as we're giving these rewards to over 1,500 players.

I imagine you already regret this phrasing, but I have to say it irks me as well. I logged in about 2 hrs before the tournament to get in the queue, but it wasn't up yet. So I stayed logged in, took a nap and came back 30 minutes before the start. Got the endless spinning blue circle and thought maybe my client was screwed up, so I logged out and got stuck logging back in for 45+ minutes. By the time I got in the tournament had fired, but the 2nd tournament was nowhere to be found. I was online waiting to connect to the server, and then was scouring the forums for any information for an hour or so. I guess I could've been more enterprising by not taking a nap, but I was quite specifically paying attention to what was going on and still couldn't find any good information to act on.

I'd already made a deal with my wife to get the afternoon free of my children, so I played in a live draft and came back to see that I'd just missed 2 more tournaments. Frustrating, back to back weekends of setting aside time for a sealed tournament and not getting to play it, and then reading the follow up saying that I wasn't paying attention to what was going on. I highly doubt you intended it to be a bothersome explanation, but my feedback to you is that it is.

hacky
02-18-2015, 12:21 PM
Perhaps you would be good enough to explain, how I could have been more enterprising?
Because as far as I can see the only way anyone would know about sealed tournament 2 or 3.
Would be by:
A: Not signing up to play sealed tournament 1.
B: Leaving sealed tournament 1, almost straight away, after it should of fired.

Enterprising could have been being in a location where you can communicate with other players trying to play on the test server (as in, an external source, as chat was disabled). For me, that was my Twitch channel's chat. I was streaming my Ruby Cup matches, and players were in my channel discussing the test server. One of my viewers told us about the second and third tournaments, as we were experimenting with what to do in the absence of information.

Which, in a way, is exactly what we were supposed to do. Try a bunch of different things to test. In an absence of direction, some people sit still, and some people wander around. In this case, those that wandered found some additional tests.

Hex could not announce the second and third tournaments and get the results they wanted: a running tournament. 1500 people apparently tried to log in. 460+ players was enough to grind the first tournament to a crawl.

Announcing either of the other tournaments could have resulted in no players finishing a tournament as a similar rush of players would sign up and cause the same stresses as the first test tournament.

Zophie
02-18-2015, 12:39 PM
For the record I don't feel insulted. I participated in a stress test, and was fully aware of what to expect, even if it wasn't spelled out in Hex's communications. My GF wasn't even mad about sitting around waiting for a broken tournament, and if you knew her you'd know that says a lot. We were basically just watchin movies and playing other games and trawling the forums while doing the testing on the side and it wasn't really a big deal. I'm over it.

Phenteo
02-18-2015, 12:56 PM
I highly doubt you intended it to be a bothersome explanation, but my feedback to you is that it is.

Most of communication is lost with just text only and people will interpret text more negatively if they have are in a negative mood or have a negative outlook on the situation. I tried explaining why things went down and what was going on internally, but trying to placate anyone isn't going to work because we gave rewards to a few lucky people and then it turns into a "he got more than I did" therefore something else must be the problem.

The first target is communication being the problem, albeit we didn't update everyone every 15 minutes with a "Hang tight." but some did mention that they logged onto the live server to ask Roostasaur what to do and he said to hang tight until we get more information. And, on another note, most gamers will look for a blame as you will hardly see an FPS gamer get killed and say, "Oh, that player is clearly more skilled than I." instead you see, "That guy is hacking!" or "There was lag!". It wasn't so much a communications issue as it was an expectations issue. I will go into detail about expectations later.

Now, in a negative situation, that isn't a message that everyone wants to see. Maybe Roostasaur could have phrased it a bit better or gone into more detail in that we needed players to just sit in the large queue. A lot was going on behind the scenes and both Roostasaur and I weren't getting much information to begin with and we weren't very sure if that was proper messaging or not. Adding to that, the chat system in the test server was closed to help with testing and that caused an issue with the broadcast system (apparently they're attached). The engineers wanted a slightly smaller tournament to fire but were still figuring out if it was valuable to keep people in the large tournament. The engineers were working furiously to check out things and neither Roostasaur nor I was given any information as to whether the large tournament was going to recover or not. I am trying to go into as much as detail as possible so you can be aware of what was going on, but there is only much I can say, changing a perception you have cemented in will be difficult. We also posted immediately as soon as we got confirmation that everyone in the first tournament can leave after it was determined, beyond a doubt, that the first tournament would not recover.

Going back to the second tournament, some players had left the first tournament and were lucky enough to see a second tournament. Now, it was asked why we didn't tweet or post on the forums for the second tournament, this was because the devs wanted a smaller amount and didn't want everyone to leave the first tournament just yet. Everyone who stayed in the first tournament still was providing valuable data for us, and your testing helped us out even if you weren't able to actually "play". This did not make you a second-class citizen, nor did we see your testing/help as inferior. If you want to feel that, I am really sorry but, that is not true at all.

Moving into the third tournament, this was another one the devs needed because the second one didn't quite get enough players. We were also specifically told not to mention this outside of the game due to fears of getting too large of a population in the third tournament. It also was communicated to us that we still potentially needed players in the first tournament and that is why when more players asked Roostasaur on the live server they were told to hang tight. Once again, this message isn't something that players want to hear when they're sitting there feeling upset at the situation as they feel like they're missing out on the prizes. Now, I'm not trying to make excuses, the situation was pretty frustrating. We're unhappy that the large tournament didn't fire appropriately due to the test server setup but we did get a lot of information from the players that stayed in the large tournament. There were many more players that didn't even make it into the server due to the load and we wanted to include their efforts as we extended the participation prizes to them as well.

Speaking of prizes, we had promised anyone who participated in a tournament that was able to complete, that they would get prizes for participation. This was a free tournament that generated a lot of desire from players because it was free and even those who wouldn't win still get something for being there. It is because of the prizes we got a large turnout and it is because of the prizes many players stuck around and tried getting in to the subsequent tournaments. Moving forward, we can remove prizing or just give a participation reward (even though we will always get complaints from edge cases where they feel they are deserved items for one reason or another) but the issues lies in the fact that most players would have just gone AFK or quit out of the tournament as they felt their time was being wasted. As players feel like they've lost an opportunity this makes matters more frustrating for them, but the prizing is ultimately what drove them to come to test.

The other issue was the expectations set, I will accept responsibility for that. When editing the announcement for the Test Server we should have really driven the idea home that this would be a test. I had explained this before as this causes a few issues, but let me speak to the reasoning first. If we had posted that this would be a test and we don't expect it to succeed, we would have a smaller turn-out. It also would have been a lie, we were hoping it would succeed. This new tournament structure and communication layer is completely new and built from the ground up. It has already shown signs of success and we are extremely excited for that. We got a lot of valuable data from everyone who stayed in the first tournament. What ended up happening was that the test server hardware isn't as beefy as the live server and the test server was auto-granting cards for everyone logging-in. This auto-grant couldn't be turned off as it required a patch and it caused a large majority of the issues as players started pouring in toward the last 30 minutes before the launch of the first tournament. The other issue is the perception of the large tournament system. This is a vital key to the game and posting that we don't expect it to work or state that there will be issues gives a quite negative outlook on things. Press could have picked up the news and wrote damaging statements along the lines of that we don't believe in our own product. This would be massively damning to the game as well as the growth of it. Obviously, we can phrase it that this will be for testing purposes only and please expect to test and not play (or something along those lines, revised a few times over) and depending on how things go, we may need to do that for the future.

Moving forward, we're very appreciative of the feedback and everyone voicing their concerns as well as compliments. Thank you for those who have chimed into this thread.

OutlandishMatt
02-18-2015, 01:19 PM
There are a number of other reasons why that's a REALLY bad idea, these are just a few.

Not really. Let me tell you why.


-Currently the only way to run community events is through the proving ground. The feature that needs to be tested is the unlimited size tournaments. I assume you suggest that fiveshards host the unlimited size one? Why is that necessary when it doesn't add anything? At that point they'd really just be sponsoring something that the HEX team was actually hosting.

No. Clearly the feature wasn't testing unlimited size tournaments as they awarded prizes for both 30 players and 110 players. This is well within range of community ran tournaments.


-Challonge would not be necessary in the test environment but it would be for the live one. You'd still need everyone to sign up for it "just in case" the test one doesn't work out.

No, you don't need anyone to sign up for anything. If the tournament DOESN'T fire on the test server THEN you can have people sign up and proceed as normal.


-If the tournament missfires people will still expect to be given stuff (as is shown by this thread) and now fiveshards has to either take a PR hit or they are giving out product that will diminish future prize pools.

Nope. You just state it up front that no prizes will be awarded if the tournament does not fire. Done and done.


-Having people switch from the test server to the live one after the test one breaks would create quite a few delays for the live tournament. What if the test server only breaks for some people but not others? Now how do they rectify that people are playing in both?

You don't reschedule immediately. You reschedule for the next weekend and you state the schedule up front.


-Having delays to the live tournament is no joke. Many of the events go on for ~6-8 hours, adding another hour onto that is a pretty big deal.

See response above.


-Even the most popular / well-attended fiveshards & hextechs tournaments PALE in comparison to the test server turnout. Over double, probably closer to triple the total number of people / accounts.

Hex Entertainment would coordinate with the community site that was hosting the tournament but make NO MENTION OF IT IN THERE FRIDAY UPDATES. That way the tournament stays closer to 100-200 players.


-Cancelling a community event at the last minute rather than a day or so in advance is really rough, not just for the public but for the guys hosting it. Many of these guys are either up at hours they would normally be sleeping or taking time off work so that they can host a free event for us to enjoy with prizes that are either coming out of their pockets or the rest of the communities'. I wouldn't want to put the hosts through that, it would just be really de-motivating and draining.

That's what we do? Not to mention Hex Entertainment could give them a lot of praise and exposure AFTER the tournament.


Don't be upset over other people's success / rewards. It isn't something you have any control over.

They should have done what they have done in the past. Cancelled the testing once it failed and awarded everyone with the same prize. Instead, they created new tournaments 2 hours after the scheduled time and awarded those with prizes. The problem is with communication from Hex.

Yoss
02-18-2015, 02:36 PM
Phenteo,

I do not envy your position. I know you're doing your best and not only that I think you're doing a great job. I am continually glad Hex hired you in this capacity.

There is, unfortunately, one hanging mistake to remedy from this thread, where I believe you chose your words poorly despite having good intent...


...some players ... were lucky enough to see a second tournament. Now, it was asked why we didn't tweet or post on the forums for the second tournament, this was because the devs wanted a smaller amount and didn't want everyone to leave the first tournament just yet. Everyone who stayed in the first tournament still was providing valuable data for us, and your testing helped us out even if you weren't able to actually "play". This did not make you a second-class citizen, nor did we see your testing/help as inferior. If you want to feel that, I am really sorry but, that is not true at all.

What made me feel second-class was not the lack of communication during the event (even though that was painful) or who was left in what state at what time (even though I wished I was able to play). It was this wording from Hex, well after the event ended: "People who just sat and waiting only had to log in and sit there. Some were more enterprising and paid attention to what was going on..." I carved out time away from the family on Valentine's Day to come help with testing (and yes, maybe get something in return), I steeled myself ahead of time knowing the risks of the testing environment, I gritted my teeth as the event went as I expected (badly), I persevered through it, trying to find a way to get in using the forums and guild chat and so on, essentially wasting two or more hours of that valuable day, telling myself over and over that it's no problem, the Hex guys are fair minded and appreciate me being here to just try. Then I read a couple days later that the official Hex opinion about me and my efforts is what I quoted above: just sitting around, unenterprising, and inattentive. THAT'S what made me feel unwanted, disrespected, and generally put out.

Change that bad quote to "'some players were lucky enough' (for whatever reason) to get in and play, so they get the additional benefit of tournament prizes" and now you're at least not insulting the unlucky players, some (most?) of whom were not "just sitting and waiting" with a "lack of enterprise".

"I'm sorry you feel that way" is not a valid apology; it just puts the blame on the listener. It's a bad politician's blame-shifting trick to try to wiggle out from an uncomfortable situation, but you're aiming to be a good politician, not a bad one. (Lets face it, being Community Manager is pretty much like being in politics.) I said it before: I don't care about the packs or the tickets. Feel free to take them back from my account if it matters. (You mentioned how generous Hex is for giving out stuff to 1500 players, and I don't disagree that you all are very generous with your customers. However, I don't want the charity if it comes at the cost of accepting insults.) I would like to hear from Hex that the quoted statement about "people who just sat", who needed to be "more enterprising", and who should have "paid attention to what was going on" was a flawed statement that is fully rescinded. Then we're left with the statements you've already made about how valuable this all was to Hex and that "some players were lucky enough" to get a little extra and that's fine with me. Then I'm back where I want to be: I helped out, Hex is happy I did and values my time; I lost the lottery, it happens. Maybe next time I'll win.

Gwaer
02-18-2015, 02:43 PM
I agree fully with Yoss. Which happens rarely these days.

Hex is backed by a lot of passionate people, who dedicate a ton of time and money. We're also, to be perfectly frank smarter than the average game userbase. We have a lot of very good discussions, that are often well sourced, and deeply interesting. We're older than average, are largely employed, etc. Some of those people dedicated their entire afternoon sitting and waiting in that first tournament, not for compensation but because they thought it would help, and that entire paragraph was just a huge slap in the face.

Most of the outrage I see in this thread has nothing to do with bad news negative bias, and it's disingenuous to say it is. Mistakes were made. It was a poorly thought out statement, and it's easy enough to just apologize and move on. No additional compensations are necessary, just being treated better in the future.

Edit: Treated better in the wrap up, afterwards, not in game. I don't personally think any of that was handled wrongly, they wanted smaller tournaments they had smaller tournaments. The compensations are completely fair, I think a tournament entry fee is better than a single set 2 pack. People were well compensated, but the disdain for people who spent their time sitting in that tournament is the bit that's troublesome.

Zophie
02-18-2015, 03:33 PM
I would like to hear from Hex that the quoted statement about "people who just sat", who needed to be "more enterprising", and who should have "paid attention to what was going on" was a flawed statement that is fully rescinded.

Ehh I guess he could have worded that one line slightly better, but I really doubt his intent was to make you feel unappreciated, and I have a feeling you know that already. He could apologize or "fully rescind it" I guess, but does it really matter? What about all of the other statements that have been made by him re-explaining everything, does that count for nothing? Are we really so upset that we're just going to drill down to this one phrase and stew over it like this? I think he's done a hell of a job explaining in detail how everything went down, and how it was all helpful for the test, and how they'll try to improve in future tests, can't we just move on already? I'm sorry but I've seen so much bad shit in my life, in this world... I just don't have the emotional energy to let shit like this bother me, I just can't get behind this argument. I love you guys but come on, let it go. My daughter has a Singing Elsa doll she can show you if you need encouragement (I'm still regretting that xmas present, feel free to take it from her if you want lol).

Gwaer
02-18-2015, 03:37 PM
That's perfectly acceptable, too. I was offended when I first read that paragraph, and was going to move on, but it's clear it bothered some people. Him offending people who quietly accept it is just going to make his job harder in the long run. Learn from it, and move on I agree. But let it go? Probably not. There's very few communities that are this dedicated to a game, ostracising the ones that are trying to do what they think is best to provide the most test results for devs is not the kind of people you want to dismiss.

So While I agree with you Zophie, it is a minor issue, it's one that should be corrected early so that it doesn't build up to ill will towards the CM.

Edit: And as Phentoe said, text does not easily relay emotion. No one is calling for his resignation over this, no one is trying to get out the pitchforks, just asking that he be mindful of the feelings of people who dedicate their only free time to providing what the Devs say they need. At least I don't agree with the people who are doing those things.

Zophie
02-18-2015, 03:49 PM
That's perfectly acceptable, too. I was offended when I first read that paragraph, and was going to move on, but it's clear it bothered some people. Him offending people who quietly accept it is just going to make his job harder in the long run. Learn from it, and move on I agree. But let it go? Probably not. There's very few communities that are this dedicated to a game, ostracising them when they're trying to do what they think is best to provide the most test results for devs is not the kind of people you want to dismiss.

So While I agree with you Zophie, it is a minor issue, it's one that should be corrected early so that it doesn't build up to ill will towards the CM.

Fair enough. These things just make me sad when they come up cause I know how hard the devs and Phenteo and everyone are working on this and it's a shame it was received so negatively. It's clear people care about and love the game as much as I do, and I totally understand when disappointment and problems and communication barriers get in the way of that love. I am certain HexEnt have learned from this experience, and hopefully everyone can see that and take time to reflect on what they are accomplishing with Hex and remember the dream that brought us all here. That dream is becoming more real every day and every one of us is a part of shaping that dream.

KingGabriel
02-18-2015, 04:00 PM
...every one of us is a part of shaping that dream.
My dream has glowsticks. So many glowsticks.
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/hextcg.gamepedia.com/thumb/c/ca/Dream_Dance.png/250px-Dream_Dance.png

RobHaven
02-18-2015, 05:35 PM
So...it is a minor issue, it's one that should be corrected early so that it doesn't build up to ill will towards the CM.

I slogged through 60+ posts to come here and say this, but Gwaer beat me to it.

It's irrelevant how passionate the Hex team is. Someone misspoke, enough people were upset that it made a wave, and the best course of action should involve a quick fix and a high five. A few words of genuine apology would serve everyone's purposes much better than a novel-length explanation.

Cantrip
02-18-2015, 07:20 PM
Is there any way at all to tell what we received other than having known exactly how many tickets/packs we had? A mail would of been better as I can't tell if I received anything at all and no real way to check.

OutlandishMatt
02-18-2015, 08:27 PM
Sigh.

I just want better communication, period.

katkillad
02-18-2015, 10:27 PM
If I was Hex I would probably just standardize rewards for participating in stress tests like these, maybe 1 constructed ticket and 1 pack or something. That's plenty to get people to join, there are people fighting for 100g in random matches.

When you give some people one thing and other people another thing, people are going to get upset.

funktion
02-18-2015, 11:07 PM
No. Clearly the feature wasn't testing unlimited size tournaments as they awarded prizes for both 30 players and 110 players. This is well within range of community ran tournaments.

I don't think it is that clear, the rest of the post largely hinges on that point (most of which I don't see eye to eye with you on either but that's not really important). I would have said that to me it was clear that testing unlimited size tournaments was the primary / only thing they were testing that day. You seem to think otherwise so then it's not so clear, in which case what do you think the primary thing that they were testing that day was?

edit: I agree 100% with you and others though that communication could have been much stronger though. Understandably there were technical issues with that even on Hex's end.

Gwaer
02-18-2015, 11:26 PM
As stated by phentoe, they were testing a brand new communications layer, and hoped it would run with unlimited players, once it failed, they wanted to see if it would fire at all, both of those tests told them things I'm certain. So yea, I'd have to agree with funktion there, they were clearly testing what they said they were testing, once it failed, they tried some backup stuff, if they had announced it again, it likely would have just failed again. So they did what they had to do to get their tests done. The people waiting in the first tournament were performing a valid function, and so where the people who actually got into tournaments, everyone was useful, and they paid out as they said they would for functioning tournaments, in addition everyone is getting rewards even for just trying, that is the best of both worlds.

Xexist
02-19-2015, 02:39 AM
I feel for ya boss man. Word something a little poorly and piss people off. I word things poorly all the time, we're only human

ossuary
02-19-2015, 06:05 AM
As far as testing goes, the goals of the engineers are the only ones that matter. Players who came expecting something different need to readjust their expectations. It doesn't matter if you personally don't like that you weren't directly informed about the additional tournaments - informing people about them would have ruined the test, and the test is what actually mattered. There is no point getting your feathers ruffled about that, if your actual goal is to help CZE test then you need to accept your participation or exclusion from that part of the test as necessary to achieve the goals the engineers were shooting for (regardless of when they made the decision to test that piece of it).

Now as far as the "just sitting there" comment, I definitely agree that those words were poorly chosen. On the whole, though, that's a very small pebble in my shoe compared to the rest of how things went and were handled, which in my opinion were as good as could be reasonably expected in the circumstances. I'm sure Phenteo regrets that phrasing, and I expect he'll be more careful in future to avoid offending one group when trying to explain the circumstances of another. As someone whose primary complaint in the past has been poor communication, I say with total confidence that things are actually MUCH better now than they were a year ago. There will always be bumps in the road, but we are moving ever forward and improving along the way.

Remember: the goal of these stress tests is to provide the engineers and devs with information they need to make the game better. That is always paramount. If what you want or expect conflicts with that, you need to either readjust your perspective, or get used to disappointment.

DocX
02-19-2015, 06:51 AM
I'd like to thank Phenteo for additional communication and transparency with his post-mortem. While it would be nice to have some additional take-aways from the post-mortem, it's understandable why you might not want to do that (since it'd tie your hands in future situations and reduce the flexibility with which you could respond).

I agree with Gwaer and Yoss that the "just sitting there" comment was poorly phrased and (my own thoughts here) likely an artifact of a very long day. That being said, it is a remark that could cause some to simmer. Ossuary is correct that the test is what actually mattered in this particular instance, but in the longer term how players felt after all was said and done is what will matter more. If players a) feel used and b) don't think Hex values them based on this flippant remark said in the heat of the moment, then getting them to test in the future will be more difficult and the predisposition will be to think they are being used (as opposed to being useful members of the community that Hex is involving in the testing, which is the better view on it and has the added benefit of being true).

Just my 2 sense.

EntropyBall
02-19-2015, 08:39 AM
I love you guys but come on, let it go. My daughter has a Singing Elsa doll she can show you if you need encouragement (I'm still regretting that xmas present, feel free to take it from her if you want lol).

As someone with a Frozen-obsessed 3 year old, this gave me a good laugh. Was also a good warning not to buy a singing Elsa doll. Now back to watching my 300th episode of Sophia the First.

ziggarius
02-19-2015, 09:11 AM
@Phenteo, you are awesome for that detailed explanation. Keep being awesome :D

Talso
02-19-2015, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=ossuary;459208]As far as testing goes, the goals of the engineers are the only ones that matter. Players who came expecting something different need to readjust their expectations. It doesn't matter if you personally don't like that you weren't directly informed about the additional tournaments - informing people about them would have ruined the test, and the test is what actually mattered. There is no point getting your feathers ruffled about that, if your actual goal is to help CZE test then you need to accept your participation or exclusion from that part of the test as necessary to achieve the goals the engineers were shooting for (regardless of when they made the decision to test that piece of it).

Well- I donīt think so at all. "Test" and everything is allowed. Nothing to await. Everything bad to await. Nice there are people who see it as easy as you. You were well informed, perfectly happy with what happened because we were there to help the engineers. NO! NO NO NO! If they need help they should look for help, but it seems no one was able to give them the help that was actually needed. The game exists to be played by players, not for engineers to play around while ignoring hundreds of HUMAN players.
Sorry but the game has left the status were everything was allowed to be done. The more changes are made the more the game will develop, thatīs an argument I canīt deny. I canīt deny that data had to be collected and that it was a good event for the engineers.
But Iīm not working here for the engineers- and no one stated that the interests of engineers were all that counted. Bringing together the interests of engineers and players in hard situations like on the event evening- itīs understandable that finding such a "perfect" solution was not possible- perhaps it was not being looked for, because, as you stated it ossuary, it was a test and nobody had to find a solution for the player side. Perhaps we can add the word "test" into the HEX wiki- because Iīm totally wrong with what I think the word test allows. For ME it was: Nothing will go perfectly, perhaps. Longer loading times, perhaps some disconnection, perhaps some waiting time. ... But that what was delivered stretched the word "test" really hard- considering the amount of players who were involved.

Talso
02-19-2015, 12:21 PM
My last tournament was during early phases of game, before the use of ingame currency for cash. I was hoping to be able to join another large free tournament to see if it would be fun enough to spend money on tournaments in the future.
Itīs a hard decision after this evening. I wanted to get experience! Stating "the tourney was free nothing to await" is a hard experience- the tourney could have been able to bring me more into the game. Thatīs what I was looking for- diving in- a bit, and forgive troubles that might occur during a test.
Edit: Can you imagine how nervous I was when building the deck at the start of the tourney? Then afterwards the message that the deck wasnīt (decks werenīt?) saved. I was very happy when my match in Round2 started; 190 cards agains my enemies deck with 190 cards. Well- I chose a nice deck, but I will beat him with 190 unsaved cards AS WELL. The enemy didnīt show up- he was a well informed player who knew nothing would work. Nice time to wait until the timer ticked down to end the only half- working match for me this evening. Itīs not that NOTHING worked in the tourney so Iīm angry players were so cool as to log in and leave at the start because they felt that a test wouldnīt need their appearance. Nice! Add this to the wiki "test" entry please- you donīt have to show up!

Gwaer
02-19-2015, 12:28 PM
They very generously gave you a free tournament entry ticket so you can get that experience Talso. The test went exactly how the other free tournament tests went. In fact several times in the forums leading up to test day it was mentioned that the tournament probably wouldn't fire. I'm sorry but in that situation I feel your expectations were quite far off. Any beta test has the chance of crashing and burning with people just left sitting there. Pretty much the only improvement of communication during the test would have been a forum announcement the second they decided that no further data could be gathered for the first tournament. Which according to phentoes timeline was after the other tourneys fired I believe.

nicosharp
02-19-2015, 12:34 PM
Can you imagine how nervous I was when building the deck at the start of the tourney? Then afterwards the message that the deck wasnīt (decks werenīt?) saved and... everyone knows how the evening ended...
It's great to hear you had an adrenaline rush of sorts just from deck building alone. Despite your frustration, that should be enough incentive for you to pony up a few dollars and play a bit of limited on the live working client. You will enjoy yourself, and it won't crash... If it does, you get a free ticket anyway, and any cards you already opened. Win/Win.
Luckily in Beta (and yes Beta means not retail, not working as intended, not Blizzard beta) there are a lot of Win/Win's you get that you will never get once the game goes retail. Enjoy your time playing, and take advantage of the perks of sometimes things not working as intended, community generosity, and future free events - both through Hex Ent., and Community Driven.

Talso
02-19-2015, 12:53 PM
Thanks for your answers.
I didnīt know I was in the tournament named "1". I read the forum entry that players in tourney 1 could leave. And I knew from chat on live server that the "other" (what the hell were they talking about I thought) events were working so far.
Tournament 1- other tournaments on this evening? I was confused and I still relied that MY tournament (big one; THAT would have made things clear to name it "449 people tournament") would- a) continue or b)be closed down
I had some information, but it wasnīt enough for me to take the decision (fast enough). I left when I was beginning to fall asleep. Well, falling asleep should be the only reason to leave Hex :)

ossuary
02-19-2015, 01:16 PM
You were on the TEST server during a TEST tournament. You were not there to play a game, you were there to help the engineers TEST. If you did not pick up on that, it was your expectations that were out of sync, not the engineers. If you don't wish to be involved in a test that potentially results in not playing the game, don't log in during tests to participate in tests. Leave it to the people who understand that they might end up sitting around doing nothing (while still providing data to the engineers, which is the ACTUAL point of the event).

This is not a complicated issue. People just want to make it so because their expectations were off to begin with.

For the record, I was one of the people sitting around who didn't get to join a tournament. I am not mad about that. Of course I would have liked to play the game while I was there, but the reason I showed up was to do my part to help the developers, not to win prizes. Anything beyond that is a nice bonus.

Talso
02-19-2015, 01:30 PM
"In less than a week, you’ll be able to check out the current in-development version of arena for a few special days of mass melee! This version won’t have the UI and AI polish that you’ll see in the live release, but you will be able to play arena, equip gear, build PVE decks, and more! We’ve taken all your HEX accounts and mirrored them on the Test Server, so no registration will be necessary. You’ll have all your cards, packs, platinum, and gold plus a few PVE goodies to play with. For those of you a little short on coin, we’re also granting 20,000 plat to all accounts on the test server. Sorry, you can’t take that back to the live game server, so spend it all!

For a sneak peek and introduction to arena, Cory will be streaming on Wednesday, February 4th at 12 PM Pacific [Worldclock]. Then, we’ll have scheduled Twitch previews from our streamers leading up to the release of the test server. No reason to repeat yourself ossuary, I understood what you were saying in your first post. Nothing new in the second.

How do you get the test environment client? Next week, we’ll post the link to the Arena Test Server installer for all of you. If you don’t have a HEX account yet and want to participate, simply sign up for a HEX beta account, download the game, and log in at least once this weekend to be included in arena testing! We can’t wait for you to get a sneak peek at the next big update to HEX!

Free Tournament

UPDATE: The Large Scale Tournament has been rescheduled, click here to read more.

Once you’ve downloaded the Arena Test Server client and installed it, you can participate in the free Sealed Deck tournament on February 7th at 12 Noon Pacific [Worldclock]. The cards you open won’t carry over to your live game account, but prizes do. Participants in the free tournament receive 1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket and then pack prizes depending on record.

4 Wins – 10 Shattered Destiny booster packs
3 Wins – 6 Shattered Destiny booster packs
2 Wins – 3 Shattered Destiny booster packs
1 Win – 2 Shattered Destiny booster packs
0 Wins – 1 Shattered Destiny booster pack

Prizes will be distributed to your live accounts at 5 PM Pacific on Monday, February 9th. If you’re new to tournaments, you can learn about each format on our tournaments page."


The rest youīre making up ossuary. I will repeat: Thanks to people believing that NO match would start- like you, ossuary, my enemy didnīt show up and you say that he was right! Just read the invitation that was made- thatīs what counts!
Expectations were made in nice advertisement posts on the front of the homepage! And people were given no information because... well- it was better we didnīt know what was coming. At least not everybody of us knew it.
Iīm not complaining about prices. And please understand- the more players are joining Hex, the more difficult it will become to keep people happy because there are not only veterans.

Of course I will join the next test, if time allows. No prices needed. Just a bit more openness before the start.

Gwaer
02-19-2015, 01:44 PM
I'm sorry what are you saying with that quote? It says test server test environment. The installer even installed as hex test. Like any test is subject to a higher degree of failure.

Talso
02-19-2015, 01:53 PM
Test? AND? What are you reading out from the word TEST?
Just to run a test with a large amount of players MANY smaller tests have to be done. Iīm testing maps for matches that run with up to 100 players in online games. And Iīm responsible if it goes wrong. Tests start with a small amount and become bigger- and the test becomes more stable. I WOULD NOT BE able to let HUNDREDS of players down in a test like it was done! Youīre saying every test before was unstable, at least so bad working that there were no expectations in this test. Whereīs the improvements that are made after each test?
Iīll stop my discussion here, there is nothing new in it. Just: 1)test means nothing to expect, everything can happen against 2)you have a responsibility towards players who are there for playing (sorry- testing).
I have stated my points, Iīm not wanting to add more, and Iīm repeating myself. It was a collection of unlucky events that came together (Friday 13th as we call it).

Gwaer
02-19-2015, 02:19 PM
I guess we'll just have to fundamentally disagree on what the word test means... I mean... SpaceX just tested landing their stage 1 rocket on a carrier so it could be reused, and it exploded... Test failed... That is why it was a test. They had no responsibility to the people watching or participating in that test if it failed, the whole point of it being a test was that there was a very real possibility that it would fail. There was also a possibility that it'd succeed. However, it failed. Exactly the same here, that first tournament could have gone off without a hitch, and it definitely made it farther than any other test to date.

Velorath
02-19-2015, 03:50 PM
As far as testing goes, the goals of the engineers are the only ones that matter. Players who came expecting something different need to readjust their expectations.

Again, by their own admission they set peoples' expectations up for a tournament and prizes because they didn't feel they'd get as much participation by telling people it was a test. That any of us were expecting things to break this badly was only due to past experience with these tournaments.

Like I've said, the issue isn't that things broke, that less than 200 people out of 1500 that tried to participate actually got into a tournament, or that some people got more prizes than others (although I'm not sure if there are any technical reasons that would have prevented them from doing a tournament on the live server after they had finished testing). The issue is entirely with poor communication from start to finish.

RobHaven
02-19-2015, 03:57 PM
You were on the TEST server during a TEST tournament. You were not there to play a game, you were there to help the engineers TEST. If you did not pick up on that, it was your expectations that were out of sync, not the engineers. If you don't wish to be involved in a test that potentially results in not playing the game, don't log in during tests to participate in tests. Leave it to the people who understand that they might end up sitting around doing nothing (while still providing data to the engineers, which is the ACTUAL point of the event).

This is not a complicated issue. People just want to make it so because their expectations were off to begin with.

Seems unnecessarily cold. I get it: "test" means "test" and whatnot. You can deliver that message without the animosity.

OutlandishMatt
02-19-2015, 07:14 PM
If I was Hex I would probably just standardize rewards for participating in stress tests like these, maybe 1 constructed ticket and 1 pack or something.

I still say they need to be something like sleeves or mercenaries and testing prizes are awarded in seasons based on participating not rank. Give out a mercenary for Frost Ring Arena testing.


This is not a complicated issue. People just want to make it so because their expectations were off to begin with.

You're right. I expected Hex Entertainment to have better communication with it's player base (447 players) that had set aside time to test their client to help them figure out bugs. I should not have expected that.


The issue is entirely with poor communication from start to finish.

^^^ This. A thousand times this.

Yoss
02-19-2015, 07:25 PM
I know Phenteo has been around today. I was expecting a response to this post. It would only take a single sentence.

katkillad
02-19-2015, 09:13 PM
I know Phenteo has been around today. I was expecting a response to this post. It would only take a single sentence.

At this point we are beating a dead horse, what more is there to say?

Skirovik
02-20-2015, 12:03 AM
Wait - so people who played in the working events and didn't win any games get 1 set pack but those who sat in the first tourny and waited don't get 1 pack? Surely I won 0 games in the first event too. I feel this isn't really a balanced compensation. I would have enjoyed my time MUCH more if I lost 4 games but actually got to play.

So basically, I didn't get to play AND I got nothing for it? That seems a bit harsh. Now I know if an event doesn't fire I'll leave immediately instead of sticking around to provide "valuable data". I know I'm a couple days behind the curve here, but I literally just read the first 2 pages of this thread and had to post.

Please let me know if I've missed something here. And I know a constructed ticket is "worth" more than a single pack, but those things never fire in my timezone. I have like 3-4 of those tickets. I would rather have something I can use.

/le sigh

Talso
02-20-2015, 02:31 AM
Wait - so people who played in the working events and didn't win any games get 1 set pack but those who sat in the first tourny and waited don't get 1 pack? Surely I won 0 games in the first event too. I feel this isn't really a balanced compensation. I would have enjoyed my time MUCH more if I lost 4 games but actually got to play.


"For players who tried logging in between 8AM and 12PM Pacific, but were not able to get past the loading screen or join a tournament, or joined the largest tournament, will receive 1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket".(Phenteo)
And: "If you just joined one tournament, you do get a booster pack as well." (Phenteo)
So:
1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket for trying or waiting inside+
0 wins 1 booster also applies for tournament 1. It was possible to win a match there, too, so-
1 wins 2 boosters also applies for tournament 1- Iīm sure about that.

Phenteo
02-20-2015, 03:32 AM
"For players who tried logging in between 8AM and 12PM Pacific, but were not able to get past the loading screen or join a tournament, or joined the largest tournament, will receive 1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket".(Phenteo)
And: "If you just joined one tournament, you do get a booster pack as well." (Phenteo)
So:
1 free Constructed Queue Entry Ticket for trying or waiting inside+
0 wins 1 booster also applies for tournament 1. It was possible to win a match there, too, so-
1 wins 2 boosters also applies for tournament 1- Iīm sure about that.

I've updated the original post, completely my fault and I apologize for that. Everyone who tried logging in, or made it in, or was able to join the 400 person tournament also received a set 2 booster pack along with the constructed ticket. Hope that helps clear that up.

ossuary
02-20-2015, 08:25 AM
As someone who was logged in but was not able to get into any of the tournaments (the first because it wouldn't let me in, the other two because I didn't notice them in time), I can confirm that I received a constructed ticket and a single set 2 booster on live, as though I had joined a tournament but won 0 matches.

Everyone who was online at the listed times but wasn't in a tournament (or who were stuck in the 447 that didn't work) should have received at least the same Skirovik - check your pack total and see if it matches up. :)

Yoss
02-20-2015, 11:47 AM
Sill no response?

hammer
02-20-2015, 11:58 AM
Sill no response?

The best way to check for a response is with the orange tracker :p

Zophie
02-20-2015, 12:40 PM
The best way to check for a response is with the orange tracker :p

Zing! :D

magic1313
02-21-2015, 12:55 AM
Prizes for test tournies should be standardized or non-existent. Why should a player who left Tournament 1 and joined tournament 2 before knowing it was ok to do so, removing "valuable data" be rewarded with 2 constructed tickets while those who stayed in tournament 1 for hours until we were told we could exit are rewarded with just 1 ticket? Everyone should get 1 ticket and 1 pack or everyone should get nothing.

If you standardize rewards no one will feel as if someone got more than they did.

Phenteo
02-21-2015, 02:43 AM
If you standardize rewards no one will feel as if someone got more than they did.

That may seem like the best solution, but what ends up happening is people are more likely to just log on and then log off when not incentived to remain testing. Some of the errors encountered would have been met with a large amount of users just leaving due to lack of interest.

However, in future tests we can consider a more standardized reward based on length of time for remaining in the test. That way we get valuable data from everyone regardless of what they are doing to participate in the test. Although, an unintended consequence of that system would result in users just logging in and keeping their computers on and doing something else rather than just testing since they are still not incentived enough to actually try to test. And this may be just as bad or worse than not getting enough people for a proper test.

Velorath
02-21-2015, 06:01 AM
I think in those respects it could be helpful if you also had something to keep people engaged while they're waiting in queues and such. Do a Twitch stream with Cory doing a Q&A and showing off some Set 3 or PVE spoilers in between giving players testing instructions. Make it a community event. Do some giveaways on the stream. If we're already logging in the game to get a prize, and staying logged in to potentially get more, the effort it takes for us to do whatever it is you need us to do for testing is fairly trivial. You just need something to keep our interest while we're doing it.

DocX
02-21-2015, 09:01 AM
Velorath makes a good suggestion. I stick around because I know my data is useful. I did walk away to do some family related things while the tournament was ongoing because a) family's more important than games and b) not much was happening anyway other than me sitting there.

If there were something going on in parallel (and the Twitch stream is a great example) to keep me engaged if the event is not happening, then a) it can be a communication mechanism and b) it will incentivize folks to do more than simply log in and walk away. I understand putting together an alternate activity to happen that you hope won't be necessary (since you hope everyone will be playing in the tournament) can be a bit of effort for possibly no reward, but there are some upsides. You'll have experience for putting together non-game entertainment for the future when that's necessary (Hex Worlds 2016?). As stated before, you can have that as a communication mechanism that lets y'all get the word out for folks not monitoring twitter or the forums. And you can help answer questions in real time that folks may have and address them in a medium that allows nuance and inflection (instead of the cold, harsh medium of plain text).

Just some thoughts.

Gwaer
02-21-2015, 09:09 AM
I think the current reward structure is fine and so is the communication during the test. Unfortunately if the devs did glean anything from the number of users chilling in the first test I hope they don't expect that again. Basically all the messaging afterwards was that people should leave even though it was progressing very slowly up until round 2 when it failed completely, and look for a potential new tournament. Which is perfectly fine if that is what helps the devs the most.

Also a twitch steam whenever they want a stress test seems like a whole lot of work and could limit their ability to have stress tests when they feel they need them. I'd rather hex employees of stream when they have awesome news to talk about. That's what people expect when they stream already. Just trying to pass the time seems like a poor use of them. A community streamer could stream and just do entertaining things. Like hexpeordy or hex pictionary. And just also get info from a contact at hex ent if there are any announcements that need to go out.

magic1313
02-21-2015, 10:18 AM
That may seem like the best solution, but what ends up happening is people are more likely to just log on and then log off when not incentived to remain testing. Some of the errors encountered would have been met with a large amount of users just leaving due to lack of interest.


After this latest stress test and the decision to give more rewards to people who left the first tourny and joined the next ones I can tell you next time I am more likely to leave the 1st tourny at the first sign of trouble and hope a new tournament pops up.

You incentivized people to log on and log off by giving those who did so more rewards by stacking participation rewards and giving rewards for wins.

There are always going to be people who try and game the system, no avoiding that, they should not be rewarded more for doing so. I am not saying that people who got lucky and saw the 2nd tourny were trying to game the system, but the did quit the first tourny prematurely. A time based incentive sounds like the best solution.

Raith
02-23-2015, 06:26 AM
I am not saying that people who got lucky and saw the 2nd tourny were trying to game the system, but the did quit the first tourny prematurely.

My wife and I left the first tourney probably about 15 minutes after the first round showed one pairing as a bye. I figured it was just dead. We weren't looking to get into another tournament, but I also didn't find any info that said we should stay in the first one. All I saw on twitter and the forums was we are looking into it. I would test whatever they ask, but I'm just an uninformed guinea pig. :P