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MCMCurtis
01-06-2011, 11:36 AM
I've noticed before that the tournament policy doc says cards may only be in one sleeve. I also know there are players in my area who like to use the peferct fit sleeves on their cards before putting them in deck prot sleeves. Yet, I don't see anything in the penalty guidelines that would call for this to be a warning or any other such violation.

How is/should this be handled?

skey23
01-06-2011, 11:47 AM
This is a Tournament Error (TE1). The player has failed to follow Official Tournament Policy as the TP clearly states that "Each card may only be sleeved in one sleeve."


In Normal Rules Level tournaments no penalty exists for this infraction so judges should not issue an official penalty; however, repeated infractions may be penalized at the Head Judge’s discretion.
The penalty for Official Policy/Announcement Violation is a Warning for Competitive Rules Level.

Now, if said double sleeving has lead to some sort of Marked Cards penalty, then that is what you would apply instead of the TE1.

nekoangel
01-06-2011, 11:49 AM
awww man and i jus bought some perfect fits lol
is this always gonoig to be the case then for sleeves as i like my cards as protected as possible.

skey23
01-06-2011, 11:53 AM
To my knowledge, this has been, and always will be, the case with regards to sleeves. Double sleeving allows for too many variants for cheating and marked cards.

nekoangel
01-06-2011, 02:59 PM
ahhhh fair enough , just annoying that there are logo differences and we have to use coloured sleeves, what are the best sleeves to go with so no one can complain?

Damio
01-06-2011, 03:04 PM
dragon shields are best i find there expensive but good (not white tho backs are too see thru)

soulzek
01-06-2011, 04:49 PM
Does anyone ever sleeve their play deck in hardcover protectors for ultimate preservation? Just wondering if there any that weren't so giant =]

strawdonkey
01-06-2011, 04:54 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/2848379530_e9bb700764.jpg

http://www.zappedgiants.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=13397#p13397

nekoangel
01-06-2011, 04:58 PM
you know i was actually gona do that but i couldnt get enough cases xD looks just as impressive as i thought it would

CCGsCards
01-06-2011, 05:28 PM
That deck in the toploaders is impressive, but has anyone used the hard card holders?

Ellimist101
01-06-2011, 06:30 PM
While this topic popped up...are any sleeves banned?

Like are the Alliance, Horde, & Neutral sleeves legal for tournament play?

Or other designer brands?

DanCapt
01-06-2011, 11:35 PM
From the CZE Tournament Policy document

3.10 Sleeves
Players are encouraged to sleeve their decks to avoid damaging their cards. Any sleeves
are legal for CZE sanctioned tournaments, provided they meet the following guidelines:
• Sleeves must be identical in all ways. This includes, color, picture alignment (if
the sleeves have images on them), manufacturer, length, and amount of wear.
• Sleeves must not be reflective.
• Sleeves must not obstruct the face of the card in any way.
• Each card may only be sleeved in one sleeve.
Players should be sure to change their sleeves often to avoid wear and damage that may
mark their cards. When sleeving a deck, it is advised that players shuffle both the new
sleeves and the deck beforehand to avoid marking patterns in the case of a manufacturing
error that may mark the cards.

Stupnick
01-06-2011, 11:41 PM
best sleeves ever to use
http://www.amazon.com/Max-Protection-Standard-Sleeves-Princess/dp/B000VAP6HG

martinezjkind
01-07-2011, 12:13 AM
I myself have showed some judges tricks with new sleeves , no matter the make or brand .

Nydyne
01-07-2011, 02:23 AM
My personal preference on sleeves are non-glossy and single color sleeves. Ultra-Pro suits my needs perfectly in that regard. While Dragon Shield might last for a long time, they will mark up very quickly with bent corners and wear. I would rather pay less then $5 on sleeves then $10 for sleeves that will mark up quicker and have to be replaced anyways.

Also, be careful on playing with toploaders. They can pose many problems like slow play, insufficient randomization, and marked cards. Also, I would hate to be the judge who has to deck check it...

SeventhSun
01-07-2011, 05:07 AM
Sleeves must not obstruct the face of the card in any way.

But Ultra-Pro has their logo on the front?
I know it doesn't obstruct any needed information, but technically that's the face of the card right?

nekoangel
01-07-2011, 08:26 AM
But Ultra-Pro has their logo on the front?
I know it doesn't obstruct any needed information, but technically that's the face of the card right?

good point, ive just bought some mkc super blue sleeves there pretty good tbh no marks plain colour but they are glossy but not glossy enough to reflect images as ive tried

skey23
01-07-2011, 09:01 AM
But Ultra-Pro has their logo on the front?
I know it doesn't obstruct any needed information, but technically that's the face of the card right?

The little Ultra-Pro dot is placed in a spot that isn't blocking any 'vital' portion of a WoW TCG card. (At least none of the ones that I buy.)
Those sleeves are perfectly fine.

The main issue with obstructing the face of the card are the sleeves that have the diamond holo pattern on the front part of the sleeve. This diamond holo pattern makes it extremely difficult to see the card.

Fleckenwhatever
01-07-2011, 09:06 AM
best sleeves ever to use
http://www.amazon.com/Max-Protection-Standard-Sleeves-Princess/dp/B000VAP6HG

I would STRONGLY recommend against ever using Max Protection sleeves. At a Magic Grand Prix, they gave us a pack of 50 in our goodie bag. It being sealed, I decided to use them, since they were new and free. I had a three round bye which I spent goldfishing once or twice. Round 4 I get deck checked and warned for marked sleeves. Brand new, right out of the box, they had already started wearing before I had played my first match. They lasted all of one round.

Damio
01-07-2011, 09:07 AM
would that toploader deck not be illegal? because the cards have room to move so wont all be aligned the same, and there will be a noticeable difference from card to card hence causing a violation?

Damio
01-07-2011, 09:08 AM
I would STRONGLY recommend against ever using Max Protection sleeves. At a Magic Grand Prix, they gave us a pack of 50 in our goodie bag. It being sealed, I decided to use them, since they were new and free. I had a three round bye which I spent goldfishing once or twice. Round 4 I get deck checked and warned for marked sleeves. Brand new, right out of the box, they had already started wearing before I had played my first match. They lasted all of one round.

i would also recommend against them, they wear to easy and the backs peel off them from the sides during shuffleing

nekoangel
01-07-2011, 10:22 AM
can cze recomend sleeves?
who makes there logo ones as they must be tourney legal right?

Eigen
01-07-2011, 12:13 PM
For local tournaments here I'm going to be quick to disallow the toploader/hard shell sleeves here. I've seen one person play with it in a tournament and I noticed that, aside from making it VERY hard to shuffle properly, when he held it he naturally curved the plastic in his hands, making them distinct even if he didn't intend it. To top it off when he recombined his played cards with that curve, the deck never sat properly, it was just a mess. They're really not designed for game play.

(I think he had those protectors on his deck entirely because it was all he had for that tournament!)

Zippy
01-07-2011, 02:35 PM
Toploaders are clear. Need to obstruct back of card view (old vs. new logo). That's puts them in the not legal category. It's fun to plop down a 6 inch deck stack though!

Darikgrey
01-07-2011, 03:18 PM
I love the old Horde, Alliance, Blackflame sleeves from UDE. They meet all the criteria and are very WoW Specific. Ultra-pro makes some great "hot fantasy babe" sleeves as well, so always a great way to possibly distract your opponent for the win! J/K! LOL! Just watch out for the ones that are too foil.

Damio
01-07-2011, 03:26 PM
I love the old Horde, Alliance, Blackflame sleeves from UDE. They meet all the criteria and are very WoW Specific. Ultra-pro makes some great "hot fantasy babe" sleeves as well, so always a great way to possibly distract your opponent for the win! J/K! LOL! Just watch out for the ones that are too foil.

also on ultra pro watch out because sometimes there is a slight color variation especially on those image ones

shadowwarl
01-10-2011, 07:08 PM
Only card I double sleeve is the hero for some reason... OCD much I do... use a clear tight fit and a clear regular sleeve

Koffin
01-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Whichever ones are solid colors with the anime girl on the packaging that claim to be "japanese quality" or whatever, I won't be buying again. They get marked up way too quick.
And a heads up, the Ultra Pro orange sleeves are too see through I feel, if I look closely enough I can see the differences in logos.
That makes me wonder if thats true then for other warm colored sleeves from them, anyone have any experience?

martinezjkind
01-11-2011, 04:38 AM
also on ultra pro watch out because sometimes there is a slight color variation especially on those image ones

Well all sleeves have variations , some of the judges who have been with me know what I am talking about .

shadehealer
01-11-2011, 06:44 AM
I love the old Horde, Alliance, Blackflame sleeves from UDE. They meet all the criteria and are very WoW Specific. Ultra-pro makes some great "hot fantasy babe" sleeves as well, so always a great way to possibly distract your opponent for the win! J/K! LOL! Just watch out for the ones that are too foil.

i use sleeves with babes! babes FTW! they have ALWAYS distracted my new opponents :D

TeamTiger-Mike
01-11-2011, 08:17 AM
+1 Dragon Shields, only ones I use.

Damio
01-11-2011, 09:14 AM
Well all sleeves have variations , some of the judges who have been with me know what I am talking about .


yes, some of the ultra pro ones have big differance like some of them are dark purple others a very pale purple on the image