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View Full Version : HEX Update - It's no Myth



Shaqattaq
03-20-2015, 03:09 PM
Hi HEXers. We’ve had a crazy couple of weeks here. If you love PVE, we launched arena this month to great success. We love seeing your run screenshots, decklists, and Princess Cory transformation stories in the forums and across social media. If you’re a tournament player, we announced an upcoming HEX Invitational with a total prize pool of over $100,000.

http://www.hextcg.com/hex-update-its-no-myth/

hacky
03-20-2015, 03:14 PM
Those alternate art cards are so sweet. I want them all. In multiples. Take my gold!

And set 3 hype!

nicosharp
03-20-2015, 03:15 PM
Those alternate art cards are so sweet. I want them all. In multiples. Take my gold!

And set 3 hype!
100% this^

katkillad
03-20-2015, 03:20 PM
How much are they going to cost??? *Head explodes*

Edswor
03-20-2015, 03:21 PM
Those alternate art cards are so sweet. I want them all. In multiples. Take my gold!

And set 3 hype!

666% this^

PD: AA is awesome ;)

Thoom
03-20-2015, 03:24 PM
Those alternate art cards look amazing. I can't wait to throw my gold at them.

My one quibble is that I hope you guys consider some alternate flavor text for AA Repel, as "See you next fall!" doesn't make as much sense without the soldier kicking down the siege ladder.

Baigan
03-20-2015, 03:30 PM
Love the art. Can't wait to pick them up!

AdamAoE2
03-20-2015, 03:30 PM
Great plan with the AAs. I am always on board with more gold sinks, keep 'em coming. :)

Svenn
03-20-2015, 03:32 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?

TJTaylor
03-20-2015, 03:41 PM
You can't get AAs in boosters, they are commons, and they are for gold so it isn't like Hex Ent. is making profit from them.

The AAs look awesome and it is a cool gold sink that will incentivize PvP players to buy them for plat from PvE grinders. Can't decide which one is my favorite.

Prophecy sounds neat. I wonder if it is anything like scry from that other game.

nicosharp
03-20-2015, 03:42 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?
Staple commons, at, what I'm sure will be, above staple prices - Not directly the same, as they are AA's. It's a thin line, but still seems like it's not intentionally being crossed to hurt the economy.

Zophie
03-20-2015, 03:42 PM
Great update, love the new AAs for gold. In the future it would be cool if these kinds of cards would be sold from an NPC Vendor out in the world instead of the Hex Store.

Thanks!

Svidurr
03-20-2015, 03:45 PM
Those alternate art cards look amazing. I can't wait to throw my gold at them.

My one quibble is that I hope you guys consider some alternate flavor text for AA Repel, as "See you next fall!" doesn't make as much sense without the soldier kicking down the siege ladder.

I had the same thought immediately upon looking at the card. Please consider adding some better lore to further draw us into the world!

hacky
03-20-2015, 03:50 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?

I know the angle where you can see this as a not-good thing, but let's be realistic.

The cards chosen are all commons that can already be bought for platinum or gold from other players. Here's the lowest AH buyout for each card at the time of this post.

Buccaneer - 4p or 1100g
Burn - 6p or 1500g
Survival of the Fittest - 4p or 800g
Repel - 4p or 990g
Sapper's Charge - 4p or 400g
Murder - 4p or 950g

Unless the gold cost for the AAs are very low (and 6 plat is approximately 1800g at 300g:1p), I have zero concern about these PVP cards being available in the store for gold.

Svenn
03-20-2015, 03:53 PM
I know what angle where you can see this as a not-good thing, but let's be realistic.

The cards chosen are all commons that can already be bought for platinum or gold from other players.

Buccaneer - 4p or 1100g
Burn - 6p or 1500g
Survival of the Fittest - 4p or 800g
Repel - 4p or 990g
Sapper's Charge - 4p or 400g
Murder - 4p or 950g

Unless the gold cost for the AAs are very low (and 6 plat is approximately 1800g at 300g:1p), I have zero concern about these AA cards being available in the store for gold.
I'm not worried about these 6 cards. They are all commons and have little to no value. However, I thought that PvP cards being sold individually and coming from PvE were 2 things that were not supposed to happen, at all.

So is the stance now "Well, as long as the cards sell for under X amount already, it's okay for us to just directly make them available from PvE"?

Yuhan
03-20-2015, 03:53 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?

Why is this a bad thing?

Mejis
03-20-2015, 03:54 PM
Short but sweet update.

I really like the AA gold sink idea. The cards are nice staple commons that any F2P player would want for their PvE decks and if not they can be sold to other players for plat.
Curious as to how much they'll cost. What do we think? Few 1000 gold each?

Svenn
03-20-2015, 03:56 PM
Why is this a bad thing?

Because the policy was supposed to be that PvP cards only came from booster packs (or as things like a PvP tournament prize. That's part of the basis of the whole protection of collection values. This represents a change in that policy... a change that is worrying.

hacky
03-20-2015, 04:01 PM
You can assert these statements, but I'm not worried at all.


I'm not worried about these 6 cards. They are all commons and have little to no value. However, I thought that PvP cards being sold individually and coming from PvE were 2 things that were not supposed to happen, at all.

Gold has come from PVP for far longer than Arena has been live, so I don't consider a gold-bought item "coming from PVE" for a while yet. Eventually, I would agree with you, but that is not the case right now.


So is the stance now "Well, as long as the cards sell for under X amount already, it's okay for us to just directly make them available from PvE"?

This is almost certainly a stretch assumption. The choice of cards being common and easily available plainly show that consideration was made as far as keeping PVP cards valuable. If an uncommon was chosen, you may have more of an argument.


Because the policy was supposed to be that PvP cards only came from booster packs (or as things like a PvP tournament prize. That's part of the basis of the whole protection of collection values. This represents a change in that policy... a change that is worrying.

The goal is the protection of the value of one's collection against loss. I don't believe you can argue that selling AA's of PVP commons at high gold prices affects the value of anyone's collection negatively

Svenn
03-20-2015, 04:04 PM
This is almost certainly a stretch assumption. The choice of cards being common and easily available plainly show that consideration was made as far as keeping PVP cards valuable. If an uncommon was chosen, you may have more of an argument.

I was under the impression that the "No PvP cards from PvE" thing was a hard rule. The fact that it's not worries me. Like I said, these 6 cards don't bother me at all, it's the fact that something I thought was a guarantee is not anymore.

Do I expect they are going to start tossing rares and legendaries into PvE rewards? No. I'm not really worried that's going to be the case... at least not any time soon. It still bothers me, though. It means I have less of an idea of where this is going than I thought.

Vorsa
03-20-2015, 04:05 PM
Those are some lovely AA's (except Murder - yuck!). :)

Keywords sound interesting, and looking forward to seeing the other races.

Loregoyle
03-20-2015, 04:06 PM
My one quibble is that I hope you guys consider some alternate flavor text for AA Repel, as "See you next fall!" doesn't make as much sense without the soldier kicking down the siege ladder.

All of these cards are supposed to have alternate flavor text. I don't know why these images have the old flavor text on them.

hacky
03-20-2015, 04:07 PM
I was under the impression that the "No PvP cards from PvE" thing was a hard rule. The fact that it's not worries me. Like I said, these 6 cards don't bother me at all, it's the fact that something I thought was a guarantee is not anymore.

Do I expect they are going to start tossing rares and legendaries into PvE rewards? No. I'm not really worried that's going to be the case... at least not any time soon. It still bothers me, though. It means I have less of an idea of where this is going than I thought.

If you can find and quote that "hard rule", that would help me understand where you are coming from.

But even if you are able to find it, we already have PVP cards given as a non-tradeable starter deck to every account, and PVP tradeable cards given to every player that completes their starter trial (and I consider this a form of PVE). Surely these features, available to every user for a long time now, break the "hard rule" more than being able to buy AA PVP cards for gold.

I believe the "hard rule" is actually more of a guideline. And as long as the cost of the AA commons is fairly high compared to their market cost (clearly they are designed to be desirable and will likely have a premium price), their availability does not break the PVP/PVE separation guideline.

Thoom
03-20-2015, 04:10 PM
All of these cards are supposed to have alternate flavor text. I don't know why these images have the old flavor text on them.

Awesome, glad to hear it!


I was under the impression that the "No PvP cards from PvE" thing was a hard rule. The fact that it's not worries me. Like I said, these 6 cards don't bother me at all, it's the fact that something I thought was a guarantee is not anymore.

Cory has also said in the past that some staple PvP commons and uncommons might be craftable, and crafting is a PVE system. I would not consider this development surprising, nor am I going to be worried unless we start seeing PvP rares or legendaries available through PVE.

Svenn
03-20-2015, 04:14 PM
If you can find and quote that "hard rule", that would help me understand where you are coming from.

But even if you are able to find it, we already have PVP cards given as a non-tradeable starter deck to every account, and PVP tradeable cards given to every player that completes their starter trial (and I consider this a form of PVE). Surely these features, available to every user for a long time now, break the "hard rule" more than being able to buy AA PVP cards for gold.
I don't care enough right now to go searching to see if I could find some sort of reference to PvP cards not being found in PvE, and it's also possible that it wasn't a hard rule but something I assumed for so long that I thought it was a hard rule. I'm not trying to make a huge deal out of this and I'm not trying to be like "OMG HexEnt is breaking promises!" or anything like that. Like I said, it's just something I thought was the case and it seems it isn't, and that bothers me.

As for the Starter Trials... there were people back then who were concerned about that as well. I let that one slide as being a part of the included starter decks (they already had such a low value), but that was also somewhat concerning. This is just another thing to add to that list for me. The more they stretch that line of where it's okay to toss PvP cards in the more concerned I get.

Svenn
03-20-2015, 04:16 PM
Cory has also said in the past that some staple PvP commons and uncommons might be craftable, and crafting is a PVE system. I would not consider this development surprising, nor am I going to be worried unless we start seeing PvP rares or legendaries available through PVE.

I had heard someone else say the same thing, but I've never found where he said this. I was also under the impression that would never happen. I really hope it doesn't.

Shaqattaq
03-20-2015, 04:20 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?

With commons, introducing cosmetic variants and various ways to earn them-- tournaments and gold being two examples-- is a place we're comfortable being in and we believe this doesn't compromise the integrity of the PVP competitive balance or the marketplace since commons are plentiful. These cards are fundamental staples to TCG deckbuilding as well, so it's a big plus to players by making these available through both PVP and PVE. We think HEX fans are going to dig it, and so far players have responded in kind.


I had the same thought immediately upon looking at the card. Please consider adding some better lore to further draw us into the world!

Definitely. We're on it! That's one of the first things we discussed when making these.

saffamike
03-20-2015, 04:32 PM
Things are really picking up speed now.

zalzakoss
03-20-2015, 04:36 PM
For how long this AA cards will be in the store?

plaguedealer
03-20-2015, 04:43 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?

I am perfectly fine with this, for one they are not worth much in ah, for two it is a great gold sink that is needed.

Shaqattaq
03-20-2015, 04:47 PM
For how long this AA cards will be in the store?

Pretty long, and we'd give players a reasonably early notice if we ever decided to take these out of the store.

rjselzler
03-20-2015, 04:57 PM
So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Um.... what?

I presumed that they would make AA PvP staples craftable, so this isn't as jarring for me, though I understand your reaction. Anyway, those are all beautiful AA cards!

Yoss
03-20-2015, 05:04 PM
Hopefully the price tag on those AA cards is very high, like tens of thousands of gold.

Perfectblue
03-20-2015, 05:06 PM
Hopefully the price tag on those AA cards is very high, like tens of thousands of gold.
And put them completely out of reach of the new players coming in to try the game out? Not a great idea.

Edit: Miss-read the number, 10k+ gold for each card sounds perfectly reasonable, my apologies.

Yoss
03-20-2015, 05:11 PM
And put them completely out of reach of the new players coming in to try the game out? Not a great idea.

You assume that's why they're there for, but I say they're not. Sparkly stuff is for the whales, the ones spending lots of money on the game. This gives whales incentive to trade plat for gold so they can buy the shiny.

Meanwhile, the F2P crowd is supposed to be getting their cheap cards from other players. That's why we have an Auction House. (And, as discussed in other threads, the AH is failing miserably at being efficient enough to service those low end players.)

S117
03-20-2015, 06:03 PM
I'll throw in that it doesn't bother me in the least that they are available for gold...

10k Gold a piece sounds more than reasonable and compared to the AH's current price on...say Burn...of 1.5k~2k Gold this is less than a worry to me...

If they get into Rares or Legends...yes I'd be concerned...but at...what? Two years into beta? Before 6 of them? That are common? Not a problem in the least so far...

strawwmann
03-20-2015, 06:39 PM
The big question for me now is, is it worth rolling those Legendary chests at all?
Unless Primal chests have something REALLY nice in them that you don't already have from Arena runs, why would I waste Gold on that?
I think once I've finished rolling Rare chests, I'll start hoarding Gold for these AAs (at least until we know what chests will contain).

Hopefully they will get the balance right on the AA card costs vs the Rare/Legendary Chest loot so that both remain viable options.
Will all the AA cards have the same Gold price, or will there be a range of prices to help with this balance?

Great idea though - Buccaneers will top my shopping list.

fitzle
03-20-2015, 07:05 PM
I think this is a great thing! As more and more PvE starts rolling out we're going to need something to do with all this gold! I think you've got the right idea with AA commons.

The future is looking so bright!

S117
03-20-2015, 07:29 PM
The big question for me now is, is it worth rolling those Legendary chests at all?
Unless Primal chests have something REALLY nice in them that you don't already have from Arena runs, why would I waste Gold on that?
I think once I've finished rolling Rare chests, I'll start hoarding Gold for these AAs (at least until we know what chests will contain).

Hopefully they will get the balance right on the AA card costs vs the Rare/Legendary Chest loot so that both remain viable options.
Will all the AA cards have the same Gold price, or will there be a range of prices to help with this balance?

Great idea though - Buccaneers will top of my shopping list.

Unfortunately I don't have the reference but I am certain HexEnt at some point said each chest rarity has it's own 'loot table' when you open it...meaning there will, in fact, be items that Primal Chests, and only Primal Chests, will drop...

Whether or not worth 30k Gold to spin the legends? We'll have to see...but I'm pretty sure they will be worth it in the long run...

IronPheasant
03-21-2015, 12:33 AM
This is a way better version of Repel, the ladder kicking is so goofy. Robot fistfight is pretty cool too.


So... we're now selling PvP cards 1) outside of booster packs and 2) for gold?

Aside from Survival of the Fittest and Sapper's Charge, they're all farmable from starter trials.

And good lord, does the only green starter desperately need improvements, when it gets so boned on its rares compared to the other decks. (The thing really should contain Uzume to compete with Ben and high priest fights-a-lot and Droo's face smasher.)

Pretty much everything should be done to disincentive making accounts to harvest cards from the other starters. Anything from making all four of them universal but untradable, to at least making the cards available in a gold shop for roughly the same time/reward ratio as making a throwaway account. Because it is a terrible design to put people through that.

Set 1 is already quite a bit of a sacrifice set since a lot of it is already given away.


Meanwhile, the F2P crowd is supposed to be getting their cheap cards from other players.

well... more like PvE cards from PvE. They just simply don't exist yet.

Yuhan
03-21-2015, 01:02 AM
I just wanna say I'm glad there is such an informative discussion ongoing.

You guys pointed out a lot of flaws in the game I didn't see yet.(Such as the AH not providing what it should)

With feedback like this I'm confident the Devs will sort this out.

Odai
03-21-2015, 02:11 AM
3rd set in beta allready, wtf guys? I didnt bought a single booster from set 2 because the game isnt finished yet (and i wont buy anything untill you do) and you want to bring a 3rd set allready?
Before this game is finished you have 10 sets -.- and new people will be totaly overwhelmed or turned of that there are so many sets.

nicosharp
03-21-2015, 02:15 AM
Meanwhile, the F2P crowd is supposed to be getting their cheap cards from other players. That's why we have an Auction House. (And, as discussed in other threads, the AH is failing miserably at being efficient enough to service those low end players.)
It's not failing for new players. It's failing for casual players that have been in the game for a while.
New players are getting what they want, but those prices are being controlled right now by a handful of individuals that can pricelock and prey on them, because they are putting in the time to do it. The current AH is fairing quite well, but has become a game in itself. If I need to, or want to play it, there is plenty of profit to be made.

New players that want instant gratification pay for it. Having a bid/ask system or a way to bulk post/bulk repost, lowers prices for them, but also eliminates trending fluctuation in cards, and could very well have longterm implications on the overall value of our collections.

wolzarg
03-21-2015, 05:17 AM
I'm sure people have already said it but you guys are genius. This is by far the best example of a cool gold sink and even better than the sleeves i imagined. The fact that they are staple commons makes them worth the sinking and because they are commons its still incredibly inoffencive to the p2p community. Excellent job and keep being awesome guys, i personally like the repel the most and the murder the least but i really have only praise for this decision.


3rd set in beta allready, wtf guys? I didnt bought a single booster from set 2 because the game isnt finished yet (and i wont buy anything untill you do) and you want to bring a 3rd set allready?
Before this game is finished you have 10 sets -.- and new people will be totaly overwhelmed or turned of that there are so many sets.
This has already been talked about and apparently isn't a big deal since many many TCG's have a nice rotation of new players in and old players out. The fact that sets rotate is what keeps it fairly even ground and sets need to be added at a decent pace for the health of the game. Also the point that the game isn't released isn't exactly a good reason to not buy into packs since its not like they are going to go "Release today, packs are 15p or 10000 gold now that the game is released!" Most things are already established and the things that will or might change with release shouldn't affect the reason for getting packs.

S117
03-21-2015, 07:41 AM
And like it or not monetizing betas is here to stay...

Personally I disapprove but the industry has been this way for YEARS *LITERALLY*...

Betas are betas in name only these days anyway...we are still technically in closed beta yet anyone can join and play...

Personally I'll stomach a few bugs and have fun playing...

Erebus
03-21-2015, 09:44 AM
Might I make a suggestion that might ease Svenn's trepidation (which I totally understand, despite being an avid PVE player). Make the cost to buy an AA card: 1 (or more) copies of the original card + X amount of gold. This will make it so you are NOT getting PVP cards from PVE but rather just receiving a cosmetic change to an existing card earned through known avenues. This makes it a net 0 gain (or if you choose to use multiple copies of some cards, a card sink) and allows you to offer rare and legendary AAs for gold.

Lockon
03-22-2015, 02:01 PM
All of these cards are supposed to have alternate flavor text. I don't know why these images have the old flavor text on them.

I would hope so, as SoF, Buccaneer and... well, it's not Murder's flavor text that doesn't work with the new image, not having any, but... I think I'd need to see an EA of it to determine whether the event being depicted is still a murder or not.

S117
03-22-2015, 08:44 PM
I think I'd need to see an EA of it to determine whether the event being depicted is still a murder or not.

"Murdered? No. I just found this served head lying around in the street. I'm smiling? Well it's just it made my day today is all."

I kid. I kid. :P

Lockon
03-23-2015, 08:53 PM
"Murdered? No. I just found this served head lying around in the street. I'm smiling? Well it's just it made my day today is all."

I kid. I kid. :P

Well a murder is a very specific thing, this could be an execution or on the battlefield or any other number of forms of death dealing that are not murder.

Yoss
03-23-2015, 10:38 PM
It's not failing for new players. It's failing for casual players that have been in the game for a while.
New players are getting what they want, but those prices are being controlled right now by a handful of individuals that can pricelock and prey on them, because they are putting in the time to do it. The current AH is fairing quite well, but has become a game in itself. If I need to, or want to play it, there is plenty of profit to be made.

New players that want instant gratification pay for it.
The AH will be a game in itself regardless of how it is implemented. People would play the Bid/Ask version just as much. There would be just as much profit to be made, it just would be in possibly different ways. Similarly, lazy people pay for convenience in Bid/Ask just as much; liquidity takers feed profits to the liquidity providers.


Having a bid/ask system or a way to bulk post/bulk repost, lowers prices for them, but also eliminates trending fluctuation in cards, and could very well have longterm implications on the overall value of our collections.
I doubt very much that it would eliminate price fluctuations and trending. Last I checked, real world markets still move quite fast despite their efficient trading interfaces.

As for "longterm implications on the overall value of our collections", that just sounds like fear mongering to me. The value of our collections is tied up not so much in the market efficiency, but more in the popularity of the game and in the card generation/destruction systems (how often Legendary replaces Rare, how many Legendary per Primal, how many promotional cards are given out, timing of things going out of print, crafting, et cetera). Poor market efficiency just makes our collections less liquid (harder to sell out and cash out), which, if anything, makes our collection less valuable.

Rapkannibale
03-24-2015, 03:32 AM
3rd set in beta allready, wtf guys? I didnt bought a single booster from set 2 because the game isnt finished yet (and i wont buy anything untill you do) and you want to bring a 3rd set allready?
Before this game is finished you have 10 sets -.- and new people will be totaly overwhelmed or turned of that there are so many sets.

Whether or not a game is "finished" should not really be the deciding factor IMO. What you should consider is: are you getting any value from buying cards in the game as it is right now? If not, then wait, but if you are having fun, playing with the cards, etc, then why not?

Also, I am sure all the people that invested in Magic the Gatherings "beta" do not regret having done so. :)

Scammanator
03-24-2015, 05:32 AM
Also, I am sure all the people that invested in Magic the Gatherings "beta" do not regret having done so.

Oh SNAP! Mic drop!

TJTaylor
03-24-2015, 07:46 PM
The AH will be a game in itself regardless of how it is implemented. People would play the Bid/Ask version just as much. There would be just as much profit to be made, it just would be in possibly different ways. Similarly, lazy people pay for convenience in Bid/Ask just as much; liquidity takers feed profits to the liquidity providers.


I doubt very much that it would eliminate price fluctuations and trending. Last I checked, real world markets still move quite fast despite their efficient trading interfaces.

As for "longterm implications on the overall value of our collections", that just sounds like fear mongering to me. The value of our collections is tied up not so much in the market efficiency, but more in the popularity of the game and in the card generation/destruction systems (how often Legendary replaces Rare, how many Legendary per Primal, how many promotional cards are given out, timing of things going out of print, crafting, et cetera). Poor market efficiency just makes our collections less liquid (harder to sell out and cash out), which, if anything, makes our collection less valuable.

Say what you will but I had no trouble liquidating an entire play-set of set 1 and 2 at a profit in less than a week on the AH. I post cards every day and I sell cards every day. There are tons of commons and uncommons up for gold for the f2p players to buy, which they do as I sell tons of them on a daily basis. People are selling. People are buying. The continued assertion that the market is a failure is complete poppycock.

Yoss
03-24-2015, 10:53 PM
There are plenty of people posting who say it's a failure for them, including me. It's only good for people who spend tons of time on it.