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RDarkfire
04-07-2015, 08:04 AM
Arena is in, bug fixes are happening, what's next? (Other than more bug fixes).

<insert-anything-here> HYPE!

israel.kendall
04-07-2015, 08:14 AM
If we go by what was said previously they said double backs first half of 2015, async limited was close to being done back in December, and set 3 sometime soon.

Zophie
04-07-2015, 08:19 AM
<insert-anything-here> HYPE!

Set 3

jonsnow2000
04-07-2015, 08:22 AM
Personally, I hope chest opening and a PVP ranked system for the proving grounds. It saddens me to see that we are 1 year in beta and the "official" constructed scene is (almost) completely neglected. And chest opening is really waaaaaay overdue...

Xenavire
04-07-2015, 08:28 AM
Supposedly set 3 and chests in the next big update, with other features like doublebacks coming 'soon' after.

Of course, no guarantees until they make an official announcement about what is next (safe to assume at least set 3.)

Thrawn
04-07-2015, 08:32 AM
Set 3 by the end of the month hopefully to get on a regular every four month schedule for set releases.

Tazelbain
04-07-2015, 08:45 AM
That's a big hope. Apirl: Chests, Authenticator. May: Rank PvP. June: Set 3. July: Double backs. That's what my crystal ball says.

Thrawn
04-07-2015, 08:55 AM
What I hope to see and what I expect to see are two very different things.

Posting the latter just tends to get people worked up and overly defensive though.

MatWith1T
04-07-2015, 08:59 AM
What I hope to see and what I expect to see are two very different things.

Posting the latter just tends to get people worked up and overly defensive though.

For much the same reasons Pooh stopped asking Eeyore what he wanted for his birthday :p

Xenavire
04-07-2015, 09:01 AM
What I hope to see and what I expect to see are two very different things.

Posting the latter just tends to get people worked up and overly defensive though.

Well, with no release date announced, I am going to say that set 3 has zero chance of landing this month.

However, my birthday is coming, so I hope they surprise us.

Zophie
04-07-2015, 09:03 AM
Well, with no release date announced, I am going to say that set 3 has zero chance of landing this month.

However, my birthday is coming, so I hope they surprise us.

As long as April has 61 days I think there's still a chance.

Xenavire
04-07-2015, 09:07 AM
As long as April has 61 days I think there's still a chance.

;) maybe... Maybe. Don't go getting my hopes up though!

Vorpal
04-07-2015, 09:31 AM
I would like to see chest opening and mercenaries.

And lotus gardens!

ossuary
04-07-2015, 09:45 AM
Set 3 got ninja patched in today... didn't anyone else notice? Man, these cards are HAWT. :D

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 10:06 AM
Fixing the auction house should be #1 priority right now IMO, I doubt it will be though as its been left to rot for like a year already

Xenavire
04-07-2015, 10:10 AM
Fixing the auction house should be #1 priority right now IMO, I doubt it will be though as its been left to rot for like a year already

Set 3 is more important than the AH. Same with dungeons. Hate to say it, but the AH will just have to be uncomfortable to use until more important things are done.

Best case scenario? We get some upgrades alongside major releases (like the minor upgrades that came with the arena patch.)

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 10:17 AM
Set 3 is more important than the AH. Same with dungeons. Hate to say it, but the AH will just have to be uncomfortable to use until more important things are done.

Best case scenario? We get some upgrades alongside major releases (like the minor upgrades that came with the arena patch.)

Sorry but theres no justification or excuse to be putting out more cards at this stage before the absolute basics like a relist button being able to mass list etc etc, unless the only motivation they have is making more money.

nicosharp
04-07-2015, 10:21 AM
The AH suggested "improvements", have never been confirmed as something that is going to be implemented, or something that actually "improves" the AH. From a user stand-point it sure does, but from the economic impact some of these simple AH suggested "improvements" will devalue our collections.

I'd be happy to see Set 3, and PvE fully released before suggested improvements hit the AH outside of QOL improvements.

Thrawn
04-07-2015, 10:24 AM
Sorry but theres no justification or excuse to be putting out more cards at this stage before the absolute basics like a relist button being able to mass list etc etc, unless the only motivation they have is making more money.

http://i.imgur.com/pFJBUWP.jpg

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 10:25 AM
The AH suggested "improvements", have never been confirmed as something that is going to be implemented, or something that actually "improves" the AH. From a user stand-point it sure does, but from the economic impact some of these simple AH suggested "improvements" will devalue our collections.

I'd be happy to see Set 3, and PvE fully released before suggested improvements hit the AH outside of QOL improvements.

How would it devalue anything exactly?

If anything it would make playing the market a more viable option, right now the time it takes to make any profit buying and selling cards negates any platinum profit because it takes far too long to do anything

nicosharp
04-07-2015, 10:32 AM
How would it devalue anything exactly?

If anything it would make playing the market a more viable option, right now the time it takes to make any profit buying and selling cards negates any platinum profit because it takes far too long to do anything
Making things easy to relist and post does indeed take the time commitment away from the AH, but it also allows surplus to easily stack up. This means, over-time card value will inadvertently decrease, as more and more players have the same cards posted for exceedingly long periods of time, at no expense to them.

I think we are nearing the point where QOL improvements will also mean the dawn of Listing fees.

Listing fees will piss off the people taking a lot of time right now to throw a wide-net over a set range of cards that are popular or sparse. But with a Re-list option, that is what we are asking for.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 10:39 AM
Making things easy to relist and post does indeed take the time commitment away from the AH, but it also allows surplus to easily stack up. This means, over-time card value will inadvertently decrease, as more and more players have the same cards posted for exceedingly long periods of time, at no expense to them.

I think we are nearing the point where QOL improvements will also mean the dawn of Listing fees.

Listing fees will piss off the people taking a lot of time right now to throw a wide-net over a set range of cards that are popular or sparse. But with a Re-list option, that is what we are asking for.

A listing fee would completely kill the market and is a laughable suggestion.

Are you really suggesting that we should be left with a barley functioning auction house because it may slightly devalue cards having a functioning one? There are plenty of other games with functioning auction houses that still have valuable cards.

plaguedealer
04-07-2015, 10:39 AM
My opinion is that the main ah improvement would be to list cards in bulk. However, that really should take a back seat to set 3, dungeons and chest opening. There is alot of development that still needs to be done, ah improvements just doesn't seem like a major priority.

nicosharp
04-07-2015, 10:43 AM
A listing fee would completely kill the market and is a laughable suggestion.

Are you really suggesting that we should be left with a barley functioning auction house because it may slightly devalue cards having a functioning one? There are plenty of other games with functioning auction houses that still have valuable cards.
I am not suggesting anything. I just see it as a potential threat that could eventually crop up as a control for AH spam.

Tazelbain
04-07-2015, 11:14 AM
Nico, you concerns don't seem to grounded in reality. Yes, HexEnt could make some change and destroy the AH. But come on, really, is that likely? Seems like pure FUD.

Second, making transactions laborious doesn't increase the value of our collections. It just creates a lot of dead cards in our collections. That's not value. Really its just a tax on our time. And it hurts newbies more than us with 10k+ card collections. If you a skilled trader you don't need to hide behind a crappy UI to make a profit.

Add graphs. Add estimates. Add bulk listing. Add batch listings. Watch the low-end market take off because its not a giant pain the butt anymore.

bootlace
04-07-2015, 11:27 AM
Nico, you concerns don't seem to grounded in reality.
The more efficient the markets, the lower the costs for the goods - I don't think that can really be argued.

If you look at the MTGO market you can buy most rares for 5c and uncommons/commons aren't worth anything. This is a game who's boosters cost 2x more than Hex and there's absolutely no F2P, giveaway or KS shenanigans to drop card values either.

I do believe the price floors, the lack of easy mass listing/re-listing, AH durations all contribute to holding up our card values.

Right now there's a lot of potential to make money off your commons and uncommons in Hex (they don't have to sit in your account worthless if you actually put the work in) - which is unheard of in MTG unless you're talking really old sets that have gone out of print. Not everything is negative folks.

nicosharp
04-07-2015, 11:27 AM
I am in support of everything getting easier, but I still hold reservations about it -
a) being a priority
b) some suggested "improvements" being needed over others.

I do like the idea of graphs/estimates. A bit less of a fan about bulk listings/batch listings. Not a huge fan of Re-List, at least not a 1 click re-list.

Lafoote
04-07-2015, 11:47 AM
While I suspect the KS PvE cards are being held off for the greater part of PvE content, where are those Uruunaz "starters?" The larger pool of PvE cards might be unfair vs. the current arena, but I can't think of any reason the extra starter shouldn't be easily fulfilled.

I would also expect the most imminent thing might be the double backs.

Short term I hope to see some event merc attainment details, a chance to open those pesky chests, and the actual implementation of Mercs for PvE.
Longer term, more(or even some) details about keeps, guilds and guild functions, and the array of dungeons and raids we've been waiting on.

I enjoy new sets and card combos, but more sets without the content to play them is is an ongoing disappointment.

Dhx
04-07-2015, 11:48 AM
The more efficient the markets, the lower the costs for the goods - I don't think that can really be argued.


This is absolutely correct. Efficiency is a double edged sword. Some changes need to be made, but I'd rather see a cleaner UI, more compact viewing options, and better sorting options. Relist option would be interesting given that you still would need to check the market fluctuation or risk pricing yourself too high/low.

Philip070380
04-07-2015, 11:50 AM
Ranked/ladder please !

Tazelbain
04-07-2015, 11:50 AM
Cost continues to be conflated with value.

Tazelbain
04-07-2015, 11:52 AM
The dragon starters are tied to foil cards which are tied to double-backs.

Saeijou
04-07-2015, 12:02 PM
Lotus gardens!!! ;)

plaguedealer
04-07-2015, 12:04 PM
Currently we dont really need lotus' for arena. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see them until raids hit.

MatWith1T
04-07-2015, 12:04 PM
I'm hoping asynch sealed shows up in the relatively near future... would be my preferred way to open Set 3 packs :)

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 12:42 PM
I am not suggesting anything. I just see it as a potential threat that could eventually crop up as a control for AH spam.

What on earth is AH spam? There can never be too many cards on an auction house.

Just had a quick look on FIFA Ultimate team auction house, there is 558k cards currently listed, and that is towards the end of the games life for the year on one console.

"AH Spam" isnt a thing.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 12:49 PM
If there is 1 page of a card listed at the price floor then you as the seller have a chance of being the one that gets bought.

If there are 100 pages of the crap rare at the price floor, then your odds on being the lucky seller are greatly reduced. You keep relisting and so does everyone else making it so there are 200 pages of this crap rare and now you have almost 0 chance of being the lucky seller.

So yes AH spam is a thing.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 12:51 PM
If there is 1 page of a card listed at the price floor then you as the seller have a chance of being the one that gets bought.

If there are 100 pages of the crap rare at the price floor, then your odds on being the lucky seller are greatly reduced. You keep relisting and so does everyone else making it so there are 200 pages of this crap rare and now you have almost 0 chance of being the lucky seller.

So yes AH spam is a thing.

That stuff is to do with supply and demand and size of the player base, not having a properly functioning auction house or a relist button

nicosharp
04-07-2015, 12:56 PM
That stuff is to do with supply and demand and size of the player base, not having a properly functioning auction house or a relist button
Your re-list button has a lot to do with it. "Properly functioning auction house" - I leave that to the experts to decide. W/E happens, happens. But some things people are asking for, mirrored in other-games, has a negative impact on a game where folks ultimately want their collections to have long-term value.

majin
04-07-2015, 12:58 PM
i just want to open my chests ^____^

Xexist
04-07-2015, 12:58 PM
What the Hex is this forum coming to. I find myself agreeing with Homer :(

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 01:03 PM
Your re-list button has a lot to do with it. "Properly functioning auction house" - I leave that to the experts to decide. W/E happens, happens. But some things people are asking for, mirrored in other-games, has a negative impact on a game where folks ultimately want their collections to have long-term value.

If leaving the game with a half functioning auction house is the answer to keeping card value up (which I don't think it would effect much personally) is viewed as an actual way of doing things then there is a fundamental problem somewhere

nicosharp
04-07-2015, 01:15 PM
What the Hex is this forum coming to. I find myself agreeing with Homer :(
So, you agree that a one-click Re-list button for all items on the Auction House, should be prioritized before Set 3, before PvE launch? Because, going back to the source, that is what this conversation is all about.

The rest of the conversation is more about smoke&mirrors in place now that allow cards to maintain values they should not generally have. IE - uncommons that are selling for 70plat from set1 for PvE decks for several weeks.

I don't really care if there was 100+ pages for every card in the game now. There are price floors in place, that will at least limit PvP cards from selling too cheap, or forcing the PvP purchasers to take the card at a low gold value for a quick sale.

I know with ease of use (and believe me, I want improvements too! I hardly ever use the AH as is.) that the price of cards now, will drop, because the individuals willingness to post cards will increase.

I just don't see the current AH getting QOL improvements as a priority for Hex right now.

Turtlewing
04-07-2015, 01:26 PM
If there is 1 page of a card listed at the price floor then you as the seller have a chance of being the one that gets bought.

If there are 100 pages of the crap rare at the price floor, then your odds on being the lucky seller are greatly reduced. You keep relisting and so does everyone else making it so there are 200 pages of this crap rare and now you have almost 0 chance of being the lucky seller.

So yes AH spam is a thing.

No, that's not AH spam, that's supply exceeding demand (probably because the card is worth less than the price floor).

You aren't entitled to sell your card at any price, and if the lowest price you can list it for is above what it's worth you'll get a surplus of unsold supply, but that's not actually a problem (it's equivalent to you being the only listing and no one buying because no one wants the card or you priced too high).

dogmod
04-07-2015, 01:39 PM
That stuff is to do with supply and demand and size of the player base, not having a properly functioning auction house or a relist button

And Nico's point is that adding features that will increase the player base should be a higher priority than improving the AH. He lists the fact that improving the auction house without improving demand ( meaning improving the game so more players want to play it ) could reduce AH prices as a potential downside to focusing on the AH prior to game improvements.

I agree with him. Improvements in the game should take priority over improving the sub-game of the AH.

Ladders/MMR
Asynch
True dungeons
Mercenary use
Chest opening

All of these are more important than improving the AH. (IMO)

I don't think nico is arguing against improving the AH in the long run, just that prioritizing it over improving the game would be misguided. Most people play this game for the card game, not for the AH game. I agree with him that improving the AH efficiency without improving the actual game will show a decrease in prices, whether that is good or bad thing would be your own personal judgement.

TOOT
04-07-2015, 01:41 PM
Asynch mode for sealed/constructed, as well as a ladder are what is needed most imo.

Unless you have 4+ hrs to spend, there is no point in collecting any cards if you want to play against another human being for any kind of meaning.

spankydonkey
04-07-2015, 01:51 PM
For me it would have to be opening chests.
I would very much like to know what's going to be in them?

bootlace
04-07-2015, 03:08 PM
Likely over 10,000 of any specific common being generated per month while a few hundred are actually bought per month. Demand and supply rules are simply not in favor of a system that would easily allow all this supply to flood the AH in respect to maintaining a healthy price.

Also anyone who claims changing the AH to be super efficient would not lead to prices seen on MTGO (pack contents barely above a dollar while pack price is officially $4) needs to explain why things would work out differently in Hex, you can't simply ignore/dismiss the proof on hand.

Tazelbain
04-07-2015, 03:23 PM
Not saying the prices won't drop, saying that its not bad when they do. What you are taking about is called protectionism. It is bad when price of things is out of whack with the value of things. Making those 50 mesmerizes gathering dust in your inventory difficult to trade doesn't give them value. The only that is going to do that is crafting, so let's not try an do it with out-dated AH UI.

Mahes
04-07-2015, 03:52 PM
I want my MTV.

israel.kendall
04-07-2015, 03:56 PM
Myself being a heavy AH trader, with a vested interest in high card prices, I feel it would actually be a good thing for prices to drop a little. Did you know the average AH value for all the cards in a set 2 pack is usually over 200p? This means if you crack a pack, and sell the contents at average AH prices you actually profit. Plus you get a chest and its contents.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 03:58 PM
At the end of the day improvements to the AH should be way down the list of importance.

(1) We have been collecting chests for ages, now is the time to make them openable and tradable.

If the chests are good this will increase demand for gold to spin them and improve the F2P area of them game. I like others need millions of gold to spin chests, but right now there is no incentive for me to buy that gold.

(2) Details of the $100k tournament. The sooner the details come out the sooner hype can be built around this. Right now I cant see many people starting to play Hex because there is a tournament "coming". Get the details out there sooner rather than later so people can prepare.

(3) Set 3. This is a TCG and we need regular releases so we don't get bored. Seeing as they have started hinting at set 3, I would guess this is going to be announced soon.

(4) More PvE. Arena is great and all that, but how many times are people going to play it. I am bored of it already and was just playing to get the perfect sleeves that I finally managed to do. Once I find Uruunaz I am done.

Anything else is just way less important.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 04:03 PM
At the end of the day improvements to the AH should be way down the list of importance.

(1) We have been collecting chests for ages, now is the time to make them openable and tradable.

If the chests are good this will increase demand for gold to spin them and improve the F2P area of them game. I like others need millions of gold to spin chests, but right now there is no incentive for me to buy that gold.

(2) Details of the $100k tournament. The sooner the details come out the sooner hype can be built around this. Right now I cant see many people starting to play Hex because there is a tournament "coming". Get the details out there sooner rather than later so people can prepare.

(3) Set 3. This is a TCG and we need regular releases so we don't get bored. Seeing as they have started hinting at set 3, I would guess this is going to be announced soon.

(4) More PvE. Arena is great and all that, but how many times are people going to play it. I am bored of it already and was just playing to get the perfect sleeves that I finally managed to do. Once I find Uruunaz I am done.

Anything else is just way less important.

And for that to happen (viably) you need a functional AH

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 04:08 PM
Likely over 10,000 of any specific common being generated per month while a few hundred are actually bought per month. Demand and supply rules are simply not in favor of a system that would easily allow all this supply to flood the AH in respect to maintaining a healthy price.

Also anyone who claims changing the AH to be super efficient would not lead to prices seen on MTGO (pack contents barely above a dollar while pack price is officially $4) needs to explain why things would work out differently in Hex, you can't simply ignore/dismiss the proof on hand.


So you think the only answer to keeping card values high (Which they aint anyway really) is to have a badly designed, barley functioning auction house?

Any pack anywhere loses its value when you open it unless you hit one of the 10 or so cards in the set with real value, that is how card games work and isnt an excuse to keep the AH as it is.

I'd suggest the banner in your sig pretty much sums up why you want the AH to stay as it is, if I was selling cards I'd have the same mindset, right now the AH is such hard work that its easier to go and buy from the likes of your site than it is to trawl through the AH, I'm sure many people have bit on the 30% of plat value you offer for collections as well on the basis of it taking a day and a half to list a collection on the AH in its current state.

Yup, I can definitely see why your for keeping it as it is.

bootlace
04-07-2015, 04:12 PM
Not saying the prices won't drop, saying that its not bad when they do. What you are taking about is called protectionism. It is bad when price of things is out of whack with the value of things. Making those 50 mesmerizes gathering dust in your inventory difficult to trade doesn't give them value. The only that is going to do that is crafting, so let's not try an do it with out-dated AH UI.

Price doesn't have to reflect actual value (whatever that is). Look how long DeBeers were able to manipulate the price of diamonds with supply controls.

israel.kendall
04-07-2015, 04:25 PM
Price doesn't have to reflect actual value (whatever that is). Look how long DeBeers were able to manipulate the price of diamonds with supply controls.

LOL yeah and they did this after the most successful marketing campaign in history. They convinced hundreds of millions of women that they could absolutely not get married without one.

IronPheasant
04-07-2015, 04:31 PM
God knows there are tons of bulk rares I'd like to pick up if people could list them for their real < 30 plat value. And don't even get me started on bidding increments; 1 gold is nothing, real "hell on earth" there. So yeah, a lot of work could be done.

Here's hoping to PvE this year after set 3 though.

bootlace
04-07-2015, 04:37 PM
So you think the only answer to keeping card values high (Which they aint anyway really) is to have a badly designed, barley functioning auction house?

Any pack anywhere loses its value when you open it unless you hit one of the 10 or so cards in the set with real value, that is how card games work and isnt an excuse to keep the AH as it is.

I'd suggest the banner in your sig pretty much sums up why you want the AH to stay as it is, if I was selling cards I'd have the same mindset, right now the AH is such hard work that its easier to go and buy from the likes of your site than it is to trawl through the AH, I'm sure many people have bit on the 30% of plat value you offer for collections as well on the basis of it taking a day and a half to list a collection on the AH in its current state.

Yup, I can definitely see why your for keeping it as it is.

Maybe you should actually address the proof on hand (MTGO), the laws of demand and supply, or my actual points instead of making ad hominem attacks.

Here's why I argued to keep card prices high a while back (even if they are somewhat artificial):


The higher the cost of the cards the more financial sense it makes for players to buy packs, enter tournaments, and generally spend money on the game = more long term players, more money for Hex to keep growing. Right now you can basically draft for free if you take the time to list your stuff which is insane from a value perspective.

It doesnt even negatively impact constructed-only players because they might have to spend more money on their deck but they can always sell the cards back.

So lower prices actually only helps the F2Pers who want to acquire PvP cards for cheap. It should actually help the F2Pers on the sell side which might even things out if PvE items ever become really desirable (currently its not due to numerous factors).


By the way the auction house is not 'broken' or 'barely functioning' just because it doesn't have some easy-mode bot to handle all the trades for you. Stop exaggerating.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 04:45 PM
Maybe you should actually address the proof on hand (MTGO), the laws of demand and supply, or my actual points instead of making ad hominem attacks.

Here's why I argued to keep card prices high a while back (even if they are somewhat artificial):



By the way the auction house is not 'broken' or 'barely functioning' just because it doesn't have some easy-mode bot to handle all the trades for you. Stop exaggerating.

Magic isn't the only card game in existence

Truth of it is, we will never get a real comparison because any other auction house on a game or otherwise isn't released until the basic features are there, unlike this one which has less than half of the functionality of most

dogmod
04-07-2015, 04:57 PM
And for that to happen (viably) you need a functional AH

And your proof or logic to that statement is?

And btw barley is something you feed horses and sometimes make beer out of and barely is something used to describe other things such as the legal age of women.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:00 PM
And btw barley is something you feed horses and sometimes make beer out of and barely is something used to describe other things such as the legal age of women.

/endthread

:)

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 05:26 PM
And your proof or logic to that statement is?

And btw barley is something you feed horses and sometimes make beer out of and barely is something used to describe other things such as the legal age of women.

In order for trading to be worth doing, the time it takes needs to be worth the profit you are making, for me anyway, as I dont wish to grind at slave rates, nobody is going to play the market for 5 hours to grind a couple hundred platinum, they will if the process is shorter, this creates a healthy in game market and truly makes this a trading game, which I dont see it as at the moment.

its a TCG, in theory someone who knows how to play the market and makes smart investments at the right time should be able to grind up a decent pile of platinum, as they can in any other game with a auction house without it being a full time job like it is on HEX.

When "Auction house" is advertised as a feature for the game, I dont think many peoples first thought would be this current mess where nobody knows how long is left on a listing and it is a major hassle to list cards with absolute basics of an auction house missing, for me the game having a in game market was one of the main reasons I backed it and the AH has far from lived up to the standard of any AH I have experienced anywhere.

I've used this example before, but I'll use it again anyway, If I want to sell a card on Ultimate team (I'm using FIFA as the example I assume other versions are the same) here is the process.

Click said card in my collection, another click to see current market prices on that card, input my price, another click, card is listed. 2-3 seconds, job done.

If this card dont sell, its a 1 click relist or I can mass relist all my items that didnt sell.

To do the exact same thing on hex, I have to load the AH, type in the name of said card I want to sell click the filter enough times for it to sort by price, go back to my collection, type in said cards name again, find it in my collection, click on which copy I want to list, deal with a pop up telling me its in a deck if I used it in a draft months ago, then input the prices if I can still remember them after doing all that, then do it all again if I want to relist it, its an absolutely hideous unnecessary system.

This is before I even get onto the whole not having a proper timer on the auctions thing and the minimum listing time being half a day or the fact that the search results refresh and reorder if I tab out of hex for a split second, Pretty much everything that could be wrong with an auction house is wrong here.

dogmod
04-07-2015, 05:32 PM
In order for trading to be worth doing, the time it takes needs to be worth the profit you are making, for me anyway, as I dont wish to grind at slave rates, nobody is going to play the market for 5 hours to grind a couple hundred platinum, they will if the process is shorter, this creates a healthy in game market and truly makes this a trading game, which I dont see it as at the moment.

its a TCG, in theory someone who knows how to play the market and makes smart investments at the right time should be able to grind up a decent pile of platinum, as they can in any other game with a auction house without it being a full time job like it is on HEX.

When "Auction house" is advertised as a feature for the game, I dont think many peoples first thought would be this current mess where nobody knows how long is left on a listing and it is a major hassle to list cards with absolute basics of an auction house missing, for me the game having a in game market was one of the main reasons I backed it and the AH has far from lived up to the standard of any AH I have experienced anywhere.

I've used this example before, but I'll use it again anyway, If I want to sell a card on Ultimate team (I'm using FIFA as the example I assume other versions are the same) here is the process.

Click said card in my collection, another click to see current market prices on that card, input my price, another click, card is listed. 2-3 seconds, job done.

If this card dont sell, its a 1 click relist or I can mass relist all my items that didnt sell.

To do the exact same thing on hex, I have to load the AH, type in the name of said card I want to sell click the filter enough times for it to sort by price, go back to my collection, type in said cards name again, find it in my collection, click on which copy I want to list, deal with a pop up telling me its in a deck if I used it in a draft months ago, then input the prices if I can still remember them after doing all that, then do it all again if I want to relist it, its an absolutely hideous unnecessary system.

This is before I even get onto the whole not having a proper timer on the auctions thing and the minimum listing time being half a day or the fact that the search results refresh and reorder if I tab out of hex for a split second, Pretty much everything that could be wrong with an auction house is wrong here.

I have never said that the AH doesn't need improvement. You said that for other things to happen viably they needed to improve the AH first. You have said nothing to prove that.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 05:36 PM
I have never said that the AH doesn't need improvement. You said that for other things to happen viably they needed to improve the AH first. You have said nothing to prove that.

Read the first paragraph again, you asked for logic, there it is.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:42 PM
Do I have cards in Hex? Yes

Am I able to give them to other people in exchange for cards/currency? Yes

If I want a specific card am I able to get it without cracking packs? Yes

Sounds like the T in TCG is working well enough.

I would place the ability to really trade over improvements to the AH.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 05:45 PM
Do I have cards in Hex? Yes

Am I able to give them to other people in exchange for cards/currency? Yes

If I want a specific card am I able to get it without cracking packs? Yes

Sounds like the T in TCG is working well enough.

I would place the ability to really trade over improvements to the AH.

We may have different definitions of trading.

My idea of trading is this one


1. To engage in buying and selling for profit. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/trading)

TOOT
04-07-2015, 05:46 PM
The entire market is completely inefficient if the average booster content for a set 1 pack is currently at 298 platinum according to HexPrice. Any pack's average contents should be less than the price of the unopened item. For this to be nearly 50% higher is absurd. With god knows how many set 1 packs there are compared to set 2, it's even more of an issue that set 1 packs are worth more opened, than set 2.

A clunky AH is the main culprit for this, with artficial floors a distant 2nd, and is a huge negative for F2P and newer players who are being forced to pay way too much if they want some singles to improve their decks.

If the AH had a lot more batch offerings or a bid/ask system it would help new players immensely as players with huge collections can easily unload their spares and drive their price down. Someone with limited time to spend on Hex would rather play games than spend 6hrs listing 100 pages worth of stuff akin to whatever Svenn(?) did, that's ridiculous. Removing this incentive is a good thing as people should not be rewarded for gauging new players because they have minimal value associated with their time.

It should be a priority as Hex is getting to the point where it wants to expand its userbase.

dogmod
04-07-2015, 05:47 PM
Read the first paragraph again, you asked for logic, there it is.

There is trading. It occurs. People play F2P. I am sorry you don't make as much money as you think you should. They doesn't make other things not viable. Again: How does not improving the AH make dungeons... ladders... asynchronous tournaments... etc not viable?

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:50 PM
We may have different definitions of trading.

My idea of trading is this one


1. To engage in buying and selling for profit. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/trading)

That is not the reason most people are interested in TCG's.

You are the minority and should not expect to be catered to.

In fact you are probably the sort of person that made me give up trading cards with other players in MTG. The annoying "i must make more on this trade than you and if it seems fair then the deal is off".

Value traders ruined trading as it became a terrible thing to be involved in. Knowing the guy you are trading with is trying to screw you over for profit is not a fun experience.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 05:52 PM
There is trading. It occurs. People play F2P. I am sorry you don't make as much money as you think you should. They doesn't make other things not viable. Again: How does not improving the AH make dungeons... ladders... asynchronous tournaments... etc not viable?

I was specifically talking about the trading of chests, which is why it was bolded in my reply.

I'd welcome all of that too, but PVE has had new content very recently, the AH has been a mess for nearly a year now and should be a higher priority.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:52 PM
The entire market is completely inefficient if the average booster content for a set 1 pack is currently at 298 platinum according to HexPrice.

I would not believe everything you read. I just don't see how that is even close to correct. For a start good luck selling all the crap commons that are in that price.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:53 PM
Does the AH work for buying and selling cards.

The answer is yes.

It might not have all the features you want, but it does work.

I say this as someone with excess cards that I cant be bothered to list due to it being too much hard work.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 05:53 PM
That is not the reason most people are interested in TCG's.

You are the minority and should not expect to be catered to.

In fact you are probably the sort of person that made me give up trading cards with other players in MTG. The annoying "i must make more on this trade than you and if it seems fair then the deal is off".

Value traders ruined trading as it became a terrible thing to be involved in. Knowing the guy you are trading with is trying to screw you over for profit is not a fun experience.

I'm not expecting to be catered to, I'm expecting the absolute basics that are present in any other auction house anywhere.

TOOT
04-07-2015, 05:54 PM
I would not believe everything you read. I just don't see how that is even close to correct. For a start good luck selling all the crap commons that are in that price.

So take out 10 commons and 30 plat from the equation and assume none of them sell. 268 is still ridiculous.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:55 PM
I'm not expecting to be catered to, I'm expecting the absolute basics that are present in any other auction house anywhere.

Will you quit if the don't add them?

Will new people be put off by the current AH?

I am guessing the answer to these things is no.

We need new sets on a regular schedule as not doing that will cause people to leave and will hinder attracting new players.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 05:56 PM
So take out 10 commons and 30 plat from the equation and assume none of them sell. 268 is still ridiculous.

It is. That's why I do not believe it to be true for even 1 second.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 06:01 PM
Will you quit if the don't add them?

Will new people be put off by the current AH?

I am guessing the answer to these things is no.

We need new sets on a regular schedule as not doing that will cause people to leave and will hinder attracting new players.

Lots of things wouldnt make people quit, dont mean parts of the game should be left without absolute basic features.

Its not really much to ask for it to have the basic functionality of any auction house anywhere when an auction house has been advertised as one of the features of the game.

TOOT
04-07-2015, 06:01 PM
http://i.imgur.com/heuE6dZ.png

I would sell like 50 of every card there for 4 platinum each. There is no way in hell I'd currently bother as it would take me like 2 days to do so. That is how these prices are inflated to holy hell.

You don't see how it is even close to correct is because it is that ridiculous, which is the point I was trying to make. :)

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 06:04 PM
TOOT, I get what you are saying now.

I would sell them for less than 4p if it took no time to list them.

bootlace
04-07-2015, 06:22 PM
http://i.imgur.com/heuE6dZ.png

I would sell like 50 of every card there for 4 platinum each. There is no way in hell I'd currently bother as it would take me like 2 days to do so. That is how these prices are inflated to holy hell.

You don't see how it is even close to correct is because it is that ridiculous, which is the point I was trying to make. :)

You wouldnt be able to sell 50 at that price because if everyone was able to bulk list, then the tens of thousands of surplus supply would lead to price cutting (as magic gazz just did but repeat that a 1000 times) until we would get to where MTGO is right now which is maybe 0.4 plat per common not 4.

Then new threads would popup saying how its useless to bulk list any commons because you can likely get more value out of salvageing them/gifting them than giving them away at fraction of a penny.

Banquetto
04-07-2015, 06:22 PM
The entire market is completely inefficient if the average booster content for a set 1 pack is currently at 298 platinum according to HexPrice. Any pack's average contents should be less than the price of the unopened item. For this to be nearly 50% higher is absurd. With god knows how many set 1 packs there are compared to set 2, it's even more of an issue that set 1 packs are worth more opened, than set 2.

Add to that the fact that while you can theoretically make 98c profit by buying a set 1 pack and opening it, you will spend more time doing so than I would value at 98c.

So we've got high prices hurting buyers, and painful time-consuming bad interface hurting sellers. Everyone loses until the AH is improved.

Personally I would look at Guild Wars 2's Trading Post as a good example of how this could work. Right click on item, click "Sell at Trading Post", instantly see list of currently available stock and prices, plus buy orders and prices. Either sell to highest buy order, or list at price of your choice. Oh, and of course directly enter quantity you wish to sell.

HomerSimpson
04-07-2015, 06:29 PM
You wouldnt be able to sell 50 at that price because if everyone was able to bulk list, then the tens of thousands of surplus supply would lead to price cutting (as magic gazz just did but repeat that a 1000 times) until we would get to where MTGO is right now which is maybe 0.4 plat per common not 4.

Then new threads would popup saying how its useless to bulk list any commons because you can likely get more value out of salvageing them/gifting them than giving them away at fraction of a penny.

They are commons, they are not supposed to be worth much.

I'd happily give my excess commons away to new players just to get them off my account but that is yet another thing that takes too long to do.

You could always limit a bulk lister as well and have it so it would list say 4 copies of X card at X price without having to do it manually 4 times rather than listing all excess copies on your account.

Just some sign that this isnt what were stuck with for the life of the game would be nice at this stage, as there has not been a single mention (that I'm aware of) from HEX that there are any plans to improve it at any point.

israel.kendall
04-07-2015, 06:31 PM
Add to that the fact that while you can theoretically make 98c profit by buying a set 1 pack and opening it, you will spend more time doing so than I would value at 98c.

So we've got high prices hurting buyers, and painful time-consuming bad interface hurting sellers. Everyone loses until the AH is improved.

Personally I would look at Guild Wars 2's Trading Post as a good example of how this could work. Right click on item, click "Sell at Trading Post", instantly see list of currently available stock and prices, plus buy orders and prices. Either sell to highest buy order, or list at price of your choice. Oh, and of course directly enter quantity you wish to sell.

Actually you make a bit more than $.98 profit. What you do is buy the packs off the official store, not the AH. This is so you can generate primal packs. You repeatedly crack the packs, sell the contents on the AH, and buy more packs. Repeat the process and generate primal packs while profiting the entire time.

I will confess here that I used this method to go infinite on the HEX AH opening hundreds of packs, generating 10 primal packs during the process. Not only did I profit in plat, I also made literally MILLIONS of gold during that time. It took me a few hours a day for a few days, then I got bored of the tedious process of listing all those cards repeatedly, and relisting them over again.

Skirovik
04-07-2015, 06:37 PM
So, what's next?

Well, hopefully Asynch, Chest Opening and Set 3. I would love to see Dungeons come in sooner rather than later, but I don't see them as a "next" inclusion.

TOOT
04-07-2015, 06:40 PM
You wouldnt be able to sell 50 at that price because if everyone was able to bulk list, then the tens of thousands of surplus supply would lead to price cutting (as magic gazz just did but repeat that a 1000 times) until we would get to where MTGO is right now which is maybe 0.4 plat per common not 4.

Then new threads would popup saying how its useless to bulk list any commons because you can likely get more value out of salvageing them/gifting them than giving them away at fraction of a penny.

That is part of my whole point. If I never sold a common, I'd be in the same spot I'm in right now, and I'm fine with that. The people getting hurt most are the F2P players who are getting raked over the coals paying the prices listed above because of how tedious listing C/UC is. People buying commons are the exact people this games needs/wants to hold on to.

CZE should not be intentionally rewarding people who are listing a Peek for 7 plat, when I'd happily sell one for 1 plat. The opened booster pack pricing speaks volumes as to how bad the AH is.

Mejis
04-07-2015, 06:42 PM
I will confess here that I used this method to go infinite on the HEX AH opening hundreds of packs, generating 10 primal packs during the process. Not only did I profit in plat, I also made literally MILLIONS of gold during that time. It took me a few hours a day for a few days, then I got bored of the tedious process of listing all those cards repeatedly, and relisting them over again.

So you cracked and sold the primal contents, or just sold the primal pack as is? Or kept the primal for yourself?

I keep swaying between buying packs from the AH for the lower price, or buying from the store for the primal chance, but I've only ever seen one of the latter and that was for Set 1 :-\

israel.kendall
04-07-2015, 06:46 PM
So you cracked and sold the primal contents, or just sold the primal pack as is? Or kept the primal for yourself?

I keep swaying between buying packs from the AH for the lower price, or buying from the store for the primal chance, but I've only ever seen one of the latter and that was for Set 1 :-\

I sold all the primals because I could undercut everyone at like 2200-2400p, while the average vale of the contents of a set 2 primal was around 1600p at the time.

magic_gazz
04-07-2015, 06:49 PM
That is part of my whole point. If I never sold a common, I'd be in the same spot I'm in right now, and I'm fine with that. The people getting hurt most are the F2P players who are getting raked over the coals paying the prices listed above because of how tedious listing C/UC is. People buying commons are the exact people this games needs/wants to hold on to.

CZE should not be intentionally rewarding people who are listing a Peek for 7 plat, when I'd happily sell one for 1 plat. The opened booster pack pricing speaks volumes as to how bad the AH is.

To be fair if someone cant afford 7 cents (or less with discounts available), then a TCG might not be the best place for them.

bootlace
04-07-2015, 06:50 PM
That is part of my whole point. If I never sold a common, I'd be in the same spot I'm in right now, and I'm fine with that. The people getting hurt most are the F2P players who are getting raked over the coals paying the prices listed above because of how tedious listing C/UC is. People buying commons are the exact people this games needs/wants to hold on to.

CZE should not be intentionally rewarding people who are listing a Peek for 7 plat, when I'd happily sell one for 1 plat. The opened booster pack pricing speaks volumes as to how bad the AH is.

F2Ps will eventually be able to take advantage of the same deficiency in AH when selling their earned goods to make money with the equipment they grind that would normally be worthless if all the supply was always listed on AH at all times.

Also pack EV is not really 298p or whatever, thats probably the daily average which can fluctuate alot. The long term figure is like half of that last time I checked.

Mejis
04-07-2015, 07:01 PM
The people getting hurt most are the F2P players who are getting raked over the coals paying the prices listed above because of how tedious listing C/UC is.

I've actually been amazed at the wealth of cards selling for cheap gold lately. There have been some real bargains on the AH for gold, and that includes huge amounts of C/UC being listed and lots of rares too. Not sure if that's just some generous players out there listing e.g. rares for a few thousand etc, or just the way the market is going. There's certainly plenty of ways for F2P players to acquire lots of good cards now from the gold earnings from Arena, and I only expect this to increase as we see more PvE content.

ossuary
04-07-2015, 07:14 PM
I've actually been amazed at the wealth of cards selling for cheap gold lately. There have been some real bargains on the AH for gold, and that includes huge amounts of C/UC being listed and lots of rares too. Not sure if that's just some generous players out there listing e.g. rares for a few thousand etc, or just the way the market is going. There's certainly plenty of ways for F2P players to acquire lots of good cards now from the gold earnings from Arena, and I only expect this to increase as we see more PvE content.

This. Plat prices don't hurt F2P players at all, because for the most part, they're not dealing in plat. At almost any time of the day, you can find people online, on twitch, or on these forums who are perfectly willing to gives commons, some uncommons, and even some rares away completely free. And when those players aren't available, there are quite a lot of those "staple" commons available for reasonable to slightly unreasonable gold prices. F2P players can pretty easily improve their deck with just a few Arena runs and some smart observing of the AH.

Those commons and uncommons that are being listed for "outrageous" plat prices don't hurt those players at all, because they're not paying it. Those prices are being charged to lazy rich players who want cards but can't be bothered to acquire them the "hard" way (opening packs, waiting until they draft them, etc.), they just want to buy them RIGHT NOW and move on. Those players can, and should, pay a premium for the ease of acquisition. The players that put in the work to stockpile or acquire those goods have a right to profit from it (especially since at least a portion of them are also enterprising F2P players who are earning the right to compete by selling for plat).

Yes, prices are higher than they would be if it was trivially easy to post cards, but for the most part, the players paying for that are the very ones who can't be bothered to put in the time, and can afford not to.

Deathlock
04-07-2015, 08:38 PM
My own wishlist (in order):
1. Game performance and UI improvements, an adequate scrolling in the card manager, instant card images loading, graphics settings options for slower machines and so on.
2. Chests opening.
3. More PVE (real dungeons would be great).
4. Ladder.
5. Guilds.
6. Set 3.
7. Crafting, doublebacks, achievements, full-arts etc.
I know it's not what most people here want, but do not throw tomatoes at me please. :)

zadies
04-08-2015, 01:17 AM
Any improvements to the auction house should occur after the crafting system is in place to give a more accurate idea of card worth and also so that the supply of cards has it's sink before the flood gates are opened.

Cernz
04-08-2015, 01:25 AM
imm the most important thing to fix (improve) before any further set launches = deck/card manager, it is already quite slow with only 2 sets - scrolling / deckbuilding / browsing is kinda clunky ... if there are more and more cards to come it will get worse and worse.

also the lag during some tournaments are quite annoying (scheduled sealed - deck building etc..) way to slow.

so im with deathlock:

1. Game performance and UI improvements, an adequate scrolling in the card manager, instant card images loading, graphics settings options for slower machines and so on.

tyra
04-08-2015, 02:15 AM
holy crap, that AH discussion is a fun one...
The rares and especially the good/played rares/legendaries won't drop a bit in price if the AH gets QOL updates. Bulk rares probably will, but that only means that they are overpriced right now and fewer people are paying for them.
The only things that will get cheaper (and they should) are commons and uncommons. Right now, people are too lazy to put up their 50 copies of Murder (insert common/uncommon card here), so their price is inflated and F2P have to farm HEAVILY to get enough gold to make their decks better. That is not good for the health of the game. Hell, it's so tedious to put up bigger amounts of cards that I continue to give away cards for free to new players, because the time spent in the AH is not worth the hassle...

what do I want to see implemented in the next weeks/months:
- A ladder system for constructed. 8 mans are fun, but time consuming. And we need the specifics for qualifying for the big tournament. But I guess it's not easy, as a free ladder system would devalue the 8mans, which increase plat consumption. I still hope there will be a ladder, since farming tokens per winning 8mans to qualify for a big end of season tournament sucks (yes, I am looking at you, Mtgo)
- Chest opening... I really want this before set 3 comes around...
- Set 3 :D
- Dungeons, but since I am more pvp-oriented, not a priority for me :D

Mike411
04-08-2015, 05:42 AM
Chests were able to be opened on the test server for awhile, so I'm guessing that's next. I'm most looking forward to raids though.

Erukk
04-08-2015, 06:09 AM
I'd imagine that they will only touch upon the possibility of removing or lowering the price floor of the bulk rares when crafting and possibly card salvaging arrivals. Depending on just how it might work, it would greatly increase their demand in the market if people needed cheap salvaged rare card components for their recipes.

But, of course since the rares in a set, even the bulk ones, are a limited resource, there is always a possibility of their stock depleting at steep rate and their value skyrocketing quickly. Time will only tell at this point.

plaguedealer
04-08-2015, 06:18 AM
Was there a mention about deconstructing equipment for crafting or is it only cards? There are some extremely cheap pieces of legendary equipment in the ah.

zadies
04-08-2015, 06:58 AM
People are assuming that the f2p players aren't benefiting more form the current prices once they get up enough funds to draft then they would be if the prices were lower... with the current prices of cards on the ah it is much easier to go infinite and have "whales" pay the way then it would be if the prices were lower.

IronPheasant
04-08-2015, 09:48 AM
Depending on just how it might work, it would greatly increase their demand in the market if people needed cheap salvaged rare card components for their recipes.

I can't pin down a source, but I think Cory once said breaking down Rares and Legendary cards wasn't going to be allowed. Might be off the mark here.


People are assuming that the f2p players aren't benefiting more form the current prices once they get up enough funds to draft then they would be if the prices were lower... with the current prices of cards on the ah it is much easier to go infinite and have "whales" pay the way then it would be if the prices were lower.

It's a nice sentiment to have, but let's be real here. You're not "going infinite" playing the game, you'd be going infinite playing the auction house minigame.

There are better alternatives. Amazon's online sweatshop will give a better return on time spent and the currency acquired can be easily be transformed into Hex cards OR booze.

nicosharp
04-08-2015, 09:55 AM
It's a nice sentiment to have, but let's be real here. You're not "going infinite" playing the game, you'd be going infinite playing the auction house minigame.

There are better alternatives. Amazon's online sweatshop will give a better return on time spent and the currency acquired can be easily be transformed into Hex cards OR booze.
MMM, Booze transformations. In all honesty though, what you make per hour in the AH, is entirely based upon how much you have to throw around, and how many fish are biting. As you accumulate wealth in HEX, you can make much more per hour for each additional hour spent. It's all about how much you are willing to post, the rarity and scarcity of the product you own, and if you are in the mood to flip.

Svenn
04-08-2015, 09:56 AM
I can't pin down a source, but I think Cory once said breaking down Rares and Legendary cards wasn't going to be allowed. Might be off the mark here.



It's a nice sentiment to have, but let's be real here. You're not "going infinite" playing the game, you'd be going infinite playing the auction house minigame.

There are better alternatives. Amazon's online sweatshop will give a better return on time spent and the currency acquired can be easily be transformed into Hex cards OR booze.
If you just sell the rares/legendaries you pull from drafts, it takes like 3 minutes to list after a draft and can easily fund another draft in most cases. And there's very little AH necessary if you take first or second place... just enough to get that 100p.

ossuary
04-08-2015, 10:18 AM
I can't pin down a source, but I think Cory once said breaking down Rares and Legendary cards wasn't going to be allowed. Might be off the mark here.

Actually, what he said was that he MIGHT allow you to create common or a few uncommon PVP cards with crafting, but nothing rarer than that. I'm sure they have zero problem with someone breaking DOWN valuable cards to reduce the total number in the economy, it's people creating valuable cards out of thin air that is a problem.

zadies
04-08-2015, 11:32 AM
If you just sell the rares/legendaries you pull from drafts, it takes like 3 minutes to list after a draft and can easily fund another draft in most cases. And there's very little AH necessary if you take first or second place... just enough to get that 100p.

This exactly I didn't say play the ah to go infinite I said sell your cards you got from drafting to go infinite atm you don't even need to get 2nd place 3rd/4th can do it with a good picks of off cards due to the price of the cards.

Pack cost cost on ah 180p at most average cost of cards in pack 220ish atm very easy from 3 packs to pull out 280p of stuff to list on the ah.

It is incredibly easy to go infinite atm if you don't want to actually make a card collection.

The price of cards on the ah makes it hard to get the ball rolling but once it is rolling it's also hard to stop as long as you make 2 packs a draft on average.

Sorveris
04-08-2015, 02:45 PM
Doublebacks.

I know it's been mentioned that they'll be implemented within the first half of 2015, but I get the feeling such a feature is being underestimated. They would give the game so much more replay value (not that it doesn't already have a fair amount) but gamers love nothing more than to brag about how hard they can game, show off their achievements for all to see, and TCGers especially love to show off that deck full of nothing but holographics and shinies. Doublebacks are a fantastic way of feeding both of those egos for players (not implying that ego as bad thing, even I'm that kind of player from time to time), and most importantly make even the most repetitive of deck testing, arena grinding, and even losing matches feel like you're accomplishing an immediate goal.

Doublebacks give us little goals to focus on during the big grind that is part and parcel of any worthwhile RPG, and would really keep us motivated with the tiny accomplishments and shiny distractions they provide.

Omnicron
04-08-2015, 04:35 PM
I think think the AH works just fine right now. Of course, systems can always be improved and the AH is no exception. Honestly, some of the suggested "improvements" I'm reading just seem like requests to be able to manipulate the market more easily. In my eyes, that's kind of a bad thing.

There are several other parts of the game that need much more attention than the AH right now. Frankly, the AH could stay exactly as is for the next three years and it wouldn't bother me one bit. I have no trouble using it for things I actually want to buy or sell.

Mejis
04-08-2015, 05:01 PM
Here's my thoughts:

1) Async sealed. I would love to draft more, but I rarely get enough time to do it, which is a real shame. If I could play sealed and just get in one or two games a day, then I'd be very very happy.

2) Doublebacks. These would be amazing, but I can't help worry that they are proving to be very difficult to implement and are still a ways off. Would love to be proved wrong though.

3) Set 3 on target. I'm still a long ways off my full playsets of set 1 and 2, but that's totally fine and is far eclipsed by the TCG-lust for more content and interesting cards etc.

4) More PvE. I'm loving Arena so much, it's been really fantastic and continues to provide a lot of entertainment and allow me to dip in and out of HEX for short burts (see #1). Therefore, any new cards/equipment being added, or an actual dungeon etc would be incredible.

5) Ranked/ladder in the proving grounds. I could almost move this up in priority when I think about it. Would certainly be nice to have some good incentive to play constructed proving grounds (aside from just the fun of playing other people), especially if matched well to a similarly-skilled player. Along the same grounds, it'd be nice to have some custom PvP, e.g. decks only with commons, decks with only C/UC, decks with only a single card of each. I know there have been player-run versions of these, but having official channels and associated ladders to do so would be lovely.

6) General UI/AH improvements. I'm pretty happy with the whole UI experience now, but there's still places it can be tweaked, and no doubt we'll see this happen over time. Biggest is the AH of course, although my main gripe is just the way it displays listings. Let me see more per page, with the option to hide card images so I can squeeze even more in per line. Make it faster when going to list cards. I'm still unsure about a re-list feature (after reading all the comments about this), for me the top AH priority is just cleanliness/aesthetics.

EDIT: 7) Improved AI. This has already improved A LOT over the last few months, but there are still some silly misplays. I'm sure this is always being tweaked behind the scenes without there being a patch/patch notes to tell us about it, but I really look forward to playing against the AI and feeling like I'm potentially playing against a real human ;)

Banquetto
04-08-2015, 05:18 PM
Doublebacks.

I know it's been mentioned that they'll be implemented within the first half of 2015, but I get the feeling such a feature is being underestimated. They would give the game so much more replay value (not that it doesn't already have a fair amount) but gamers love nothing more than to brag about how hard they can game, show off their achievements for all to see, and TCGers especially love to show off that deck full of nothing but holographics and shinies. Doublebacks are a fantastic way of feeding both of those egos for players (not implying that ego as bad thing, even I'm that kind of player from time to time), and most importantly make even the most repetitive of deck testing, arena grinding, and even losing matches feel like you're accomplishing an immediate goal.

Couldn't agree more.

Double-backs and card-by-card leveling and achievements were the #1 feature that made me go "good goddamn, that's cool!" and back the Kickstarter.

And I really feel reluctant to play more than a tiny amount until that's in the game.

Seraph_Hex
04-08-2015, 05:19 PM
5) Ranked/ladder in the proving grounds.

What use does a ladder system has? I always believed it is a way to rank players in a competetive environment. What is the meaning of a ranking system in the proving grounds then? Wouldn't it make more sense to implement such system for tourneys? Since that is where one can use reserves and play a best of three match.

TOOT
04-08-2015, 07:24 PM
What use does a ladder system has? I always believed it is a way to rank players in a competetive environment. What is the meaning of a ranking system in the proving grounds then? Wouldn't it make more sense to implement such system for tourneys? Since that is where one can use reserves and play a best of three match.

Your reward for playing tournaments come in the form of prizes..boosters, AA's, primals. I'm aware the prizes are because there is an entry whereas there is no entry in the proving grounds. Regardless, it still gives some sort of reinforcement for playing them.

Your reward for playing in the proving grounds is precisely....nothing. A visible ranking method at least gives some reason/justification to play these games. (I'd imagine, ranked ladder games would be akin to the sparring queue, being 2 outta 3). The amount of conceding has gone up immensely lately, like to the point where if you dont get a near-perfect opening draw, people just leave. Add in that most people are playing arena if not in a tournament and not the proving grounds like they were 2 months ago. Even attempting to play in the PG right now is a horrible waste of time compared to everything else that Hex offers.

If Hex plans to make money from people wanting and buying expensive cards, they need to have more reasons to use them.

chromus
04-08-2015, 08:55 PM
I haven't read the whole thread but here is my 2 cents:

Game content such as new PvP Sets, PvE Arenas/Dungeons I'm sure take a long time to implement as each new card/boss means new interactions, etc. While this type of meaty content needs to be generated at the very least on a semi-regular basis, they should not always take precedence over easier-to-implement features (I'm guessing they are) that are sorely missing from the game that would grant your existing content longevity and replayability. Specifically: Ladder/Ranked play & Async Play.

As awesome as the current in-game tournaments are, there is simply no 'bigger picture' beyond that. People are used to having a greater goal in the games they choose to immerse themselves in: from Hearthstone to LoL, Counterstrike to Fifa, SC2 to DOTA2 all have different ranking systems. It's how you get people to not only play your content again and again but have many others to actually watch the best players. A Ladder/Ranking system with its own reward structure needs to be in the game yesterday, and in my opinion can take precedence over the next meaty content (Set 3).

The other big problem that needs to be tackled ASAP is the time investment necessary to PvP for prizes. An 8-man tournament (limited or constructed) currently requires a time block of 1.5-3 hours. That is where Hearthstone Arena and MTGO Leagues (RIP) truly shine as you can play competitively while only allocating 20-30 minutes at a time. This is such a huge benefit for so many people out there that by not having this option, you are losing out on the business of a whole category of gamers.

While I agree Doublebacks are super cool, I don't believe they are worth prioritizing over as they don't address a specific problem the above 2 features will solve - especially since we've heard they require lots of development resources. Guilds, Keeps, and Crafting also fall in this category.

Feature/Content Priority Ranking for me:
1. Ladder/Ranked system - April 2015
2. Async - May 2015
3. Set 3 - June 2015
4. Chest Opening, Mercs, and Lotuses - July 2015
5. Doublebacks - August 2015
6. Dungeons - September 2015
7. Set 4 - October 2015
8. Crafting - November 2015
9. Guilds - December 2015
10. More Dungeons - January 2016
11. Set 5 - February 2016
12. Keeps - March 2016
13. Release?!! - April 2016

One can dream... :)

magic_gazz
04-08-2015, 09:13 PM
If they can make leagues not have terrible prize support or need you to play a million tie breaker games then I would bet they would make a ton of money.

zadies
04-08-2015, 09:46 PM
What use does a ladder system has? I always believed it is a way to rank players in a competetive environment. What is the meaning of a ranking system in the proving grounds then? Wouldn't it make more sense to implement such system for tourneys? Since that is where one can use reserves and play a best of three match.

Attempting to have a ranking in tournaments will just cause the queues not to fire tbh you'll see whos in it if you can beat them and either join or leave based on that and it will be an avoidance game how many low rank players can i get in the queue. Also given the variance in this game ladders as you think about them are completely in accurate. Scrabble a game with much less variance because you draw from the pool as opposed to two seprate and possibly vastly unequal pools uses elo but is quite aware it is entirely inaccurate in doing what it is designed to do even after 7 years of data.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~nicho...r/ratings.html

Until you can produce an actual system that is predictive checking off the we have a ladder box is just checking of the we have a ladder box not actually doing anything useful.

every game listed here Hearthstone to LoL, Counterstrike to Fifa, SC2 to DOTA2 other then hearthstone is at it's heart a skill based game and really hearthstone's ranking system is a joke compared to the rest of them.

Hearthstones ranking system is basically a grind fest that says hey I was here and played
http://www.gosugamers.net/hearthstone/features/4086-why-hearthstone-s-ranked-ladder-is-unrewarding

aka hearthstone went and checked the box for a ladder/matchmaking without really trying to accomplish anything with it other then to say woot we have that check box filled.

Mejis
04-08-2015, 10:56 PM
aka hearthstone went and checked the box for a ladder/matchmaking without really trying to accomplish anything with it other then to say woot we have that check box filled.

But at least Hearthstone's ranking system let's you see some tangible rank for yourself and the possibility to then climb or fall down that ladder and start again each month. That's if you choose to do so of course (for what it's worth, I rarely even open HS -- why would I when I have HEX, but let's not go down that road). The oddity for me has always been at the end of HS season that you just get some stars to start higher up the grind again next month. I think there's massive room for improvements there, but again that need not be discussed here. Despite the fact it may not be the best system, it still encourages a huge amount of people to play Ranked, chasing that Legendary status and trying to beat last month's attempt.

I don't think it matters how accurate that rank/ladder system needs to be right now, just that for the sake of encouraging Proving Grounds constructed play and preventing people auto-conceding, then it would be a real boon right now. It gives you something tangible, some way to benchmark yourself.

I have zero knowledge of ranking systems, so thanks for those links, so maybe I'll change my mind when I read them. However, I'm pretty sure Scrolls was/is using the ELO system and that still worked well imo, at least when I played it during beta.

HomerSimpson
04-08-2015, 11:53 PM
But at least Hearthstone's ranking system let's you see some tangible rank for yourself and the possibility to then climb or fall down that ladder and start again each month. That's if you choose to do so of course (for what it's worth, I rarely even open HS -- why would I when I have HEX, but let's not go down that road). The oddity for me has always been at the end of HS season that you just get some stars to start higher up the grind again next month. I think there's massive room for improvements there, but again that need not be discussed here. Despite the fact it may not be the best system, it still encourages a huge amount of people to play Ranked, chasing that Legendary status and trying to beat last month's attempt.

I don't think it matters how accurate that rank/ladder system needs to be right now, just that for the sake of encouraging Proving Grounds constructed play and preventing people auto-conceding, then it would be a real boon right now. It gives you something tangible, some way to benchmark yourself.

I have zero knowledge of ranking systems, so thanks for those links, so maybe I'll change my mind when I read them. However, I'm pretty sure Scrolls was/is using the ELO system and that still worked well imo, at least when I played it during beta.

This x100

zadies
04-09-2015, 12:01 AM
A benchmark that is just a grind that has not statistical backing creating matches that are inaccurate at best... in the proving grounds it probably doesn't do any actual harm, but attempting to implement a system like that for larger prize pools is just a farce.

Mejis
04-09-2015, 12:21 AM
A benchmark that is just a grind that has not statistical backing creating matches that are inaccurate at best... in the proving grounds it probably doesn't do any actual harm, but attempting to implement a system like that for larger prize pools is just a farce.

Not suggesting we need any kind of prize pools at the moment for the proving grounds/ladder, that's nicely implemented in drafts and tournaments as it stands.

If down the line there are prizes for a ladder/ranked then yep absolutely needs to be looked into thoroughly, as I'm sure the devs are doing.
But as I said above, I definitely want to read into how these things work/fail to work, so thanks for the links and info :)

spankydonkey
04-09-2015, 04:45 AM
It would be very nice if someone in the know, would maybe just tell us all what's going to be next?
Then we could all stop wondering.

Xenavire
04-09-2015, 06:07 AM
It would be very nice if someone in the know, would maybe just tell us all what's going to be next?
Then we could all stop wondering.

We already know: set 3. Via the podcast with Cory.

plaguedealer
04-09-2015, 06:20 AM
Edit I thought servers were down today, I am dumb. Trying to find the patch notes. Ok twitter said patch has been delayed, I am not going completely crazy.

Omnicron
04-11-2015, 11:15 PM
But at least Hearthstone's ranking system let's you see some tangible rank for yourself and the possibility to then climb or fall down that ladder and start again each month. That's if you choose to do so of course (for what it's worth, I rarely even open HS -- why would I when I have HEX, but let's not go down that road). The oddity for me has always been at the end of HS season that you just get some stars to start higher up the grind again next month. I think there's massive room for improvements there, but again that need not be discussed here. Despite the fact it may not be the best system, it still encourages a huge amount of people to play Ranked, chasing that Legendary status and trying to beat last month's attempt.

I don't think it matters how accurate that rank/ladder system needs to be right now, just that for the sake of encouraging Proving Grounds constructed play and preventing people auto-conceding, then it would be a real boon right now. It gives you something tangible, some way to benchmark yourself.

I have zero knowledge of ranking systems, so thanks for those links, so maybe I'll change my mind when I read them. However, I'm pretty sure Scrolls was/is using the ELO system and that still worked well imo, at least when I played it during beta.

ELO is a great system that just works. I really wish Hearthstone used it. Frankly, I find Hearthstone's entire "ranked" system to be completely annoying, cumbersome, and arbitrarily time consuming - and this is coming from someone who's played a *lot* of Hearthstone.

israel.kendall
04-12-2015, 12:25 AM
Everyone complains about Hearthstone ranked because every time it restarts the lower ranked people just get their faces smashed in for a solid couple weeks while the high ranked guys grind to move up.

cehu
04-12-2015, 01:33 PM
hopefully ranked ladders for tourneys and proving grounds really soon...this is just boring atm

Skirovik
04-13-2015, 10:07 PM
Bring on Asynch Sealed!

I can feel it in my bones. It's coming!!

IronPheasant
04-14-2015, 02:17 PM
Anything mentioned in the past year about leagues?

Shivdaddy
04-14-2015, 07:23 PM
Anything mentioned in the past year about leagues?

The people around hear are crazy over the phrase Asycn sealed. It will be close to leagues and should be out in a couple months.

Thrawn
04-14-2015, 07:50 PM
Anything mentioned in the past year about leagues?

Sometime after Set 3, but before guilds and double backs.

combatwombat
04-14-2015, 11:12 PM
Well, as it usually happens to 13 page topics, this response of mine will either get buried with other responses or ignored completely... Nonetheless, for some time now, I feel the need to share my concern.

First of all, opening chests is a completely silly idea when there is barely any content to do so... Don't get me wrong, they have added bunch of PVE stuff, but considering the fact that there should be "Campaign" somewhere in near future, I'd rather wait with opening or even adding the feature to open.

Now what concerns me THE MOST is in fact the Set 3. For some reason I feel like it's a distraction... I don't know, maybe I'm getting suspicious with age or something... or it's schizophrenia... I just don't see any mentions regarding Campaign, and see a lot of mentions over things which will yet again cost me money... if you know where I am going with it.

We are facing Set 3 when there is still lots to do in the aspect of "what was suppose to be unique about this game" which is ofc the PVE aspect.
From PvE so far we have been given some cards, some gear, and Arena... below expectation, at least mine. It's fun but barely touches the top of the iceberg of needs. And even though I am a PvP player, I sometimes would rather just progress and explore...

Now Set 3 will distract everyone, getting them hyped and all, but will also cause huge problems later on, especially if Set 4 follows before Campaign being added.
New players or players-in-waiting will come in, see that they are behind 3 or 4 quite big sets of cards, and that will be it for them. Community will not grow, game will die, we all going to loose the value on our collections... World War 3 will happen, rain of nukes will wipe the life on Earth and all because the PvE content of this game was not enough... Grim, I know.

Now don't get me wrong. I appreciate their work, love the game and it's aspects, but I am simply concerned for its future. Therefore I'd rather see a small Campaign being added before Set 3, then all-those-things-we-are-missing, and then the Set 3 itself. Unless, of course, Set 3 is necessary for the PvE Campaign mode to even launch.

Of course I am aware that none of my wishes will come true, because life sucks and golden fish die out of the water... still...

Gwaer
04-14-2015, 11:17 PM
PVE isn't done yet. It won't be done for a while from the looks of things. I'd much rather have something new to do. New pvp set development needs to be done at a steady pace, everything it needs is in place, while PVE is just such huge and complex beast even if you could put every person developing the sets into somehow implementing PVE it wouldn't make a dent in the time it's going to take to get it into the game, and in the meantime we'd have nothing to do. I don't care if it's set 7 before we get a real pve campaign, those PVP sets keep people engaged and interested long enough to get to that point.

ForgedSol
04-14-2015, 11:29 PM
I don't really see Set 3 as being a distraction that would cause problems. People that like PvP and PvP/PvE will both appreciate Set 3. New, regularly scheduled sets are part of the PvP experience and that experience has already launched. People who are pretty much exclusively PvE and waiting on campaign won't be affected too much by there being more PvP sets. Since campaign is going to be this whole different beast that can stand on its own if that's the way some people want to play right?

Arena has given me a small taste of what they want the full campaign to be, and I'm looking forward to seeing it, but I'd also like it to be a smash hit right out the gate. If anything, they could do some more updates to Arena in the meantime if necessary. (Although that would probably feel like a distraction.)

dogmod
04-14-2015, 11:32 PM
PVE isn't done yet. It won't be done for a while from the looks of things. I'd much rather have something new to do. New pvp set development needs to be done at a steady pace, everything it needs is in place, while PVE is just such huge and complex beast even if you could put every person developing the sets into somehow implementing PVE it wouldn't make a dent in the time it's going to take to get it into the game, and in the meantime we'd have nothing to do. I don't care if it's set 7 before we get a real pve campaign, those PVP sets keep people engaged and interested long enough to get to that point.

I am sad to say that I feel like constructed has not developed. It is a super niche market currently and the lack of ladders, ranking, leagues, big tournaments with points hosted by CZE has put a pretty big damper on it. I hope some of that comes out with Set 3 so I don't feel like I got these cards just to look at ;o

Gwaer
04-14-2015, 11:47 PM
I am sad to say that I feel like constructed has not developed. It is a super niche market currently and the lack of ladders, ranking, leagues, big tournaments with points hosted by CZE has put a pretty big damper on it. I hope some of that comes out with Set 3 so I don't feel like I got these cards just to look at ;o

I agree, there's a long way to go in both PVP and PVE, the PVP stuff is for the most part lower hanging fruit, it's not really a sign of favoritism. If one feature takes a small amount of effort, and another takes a huge amount of effort, even if more people are allocated to the huge effort project the small effort one is likely to finish first.

That being said, PVP sets pay the bills, Converting PVE players to PVP is the name of the game, and if there is not a robust PVP game to be converted to there's a pretty big hole in your monetization strategy.

Cernz
04-15-2015, 02:57 AM
whats next?

lunch time!

:p

Kamino72
04-15-2015, 11:55 AM
My wish :
1) Set 3
2) More equiment
3) Heroes with skill tree
4) Dungeons
5) Better UI, AH especially

The most important is to create an awesome complexity for deck buiding :
Complexity = choice = pleasure = Cards * Equipment * Skills

Pointless for me :
- double back (add nothing to the gameplay)

K.

Fyren
04-15-2015, 12:42 PM
Now don't get me wrong. I appreciate their work, love the game and it's aspects, but I am simply concerned for its future. Therefore I'd rather see a small Campaign being added before Set 3, then all-those-things-we-are-missing, and then the Set 3 itself. Unless, of course, Set 3 is necessary for the PvE Campaign mode to even launch.

Honestly, woefully incomplete as my own collection is and as much benefit as it would be to me to delay, I can see one strong reason for Set 3 being needed for PvE: Full racial options.

PvE modes are to eventually include player heroes with races and classes. As someone who was pulled in to the game in part because of the strength of the Shin'hare concept, I can understand it would likely be disappointing if there weren't robust options for the Necrotic, Vennen, Coyotle (or, I suppose, Elves, but who doesn't have those?) to play when PvE finally saw launch should players have been drawn to the game in any part by resurrected gem-zombies, genderless drider zealots, or canid tribal mystics.

Vorpal
04-15-2015, 12:47 PM
New players or players-in-waiting will come in, see that they are behind 3 or 4 quite big sets of cards, and that will be it for them

So.....no ccg's should ever release new sets because it might discourage future new players from picking up the game?