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Xenavire
04-17-2015, 11:07 AM
https://hextcg.com/hex-update-one-year-of-draft-extension/

Anyone who qualifies for a year of free drafts is getting one hell of a sweet perk - another 6 months. I feel that this is actually a well thought out move, since by standard timelines, we should be almost at set 4 already, and the drafts have almost ended.

Definitely a great update for any higher backers - lets hope the 2 year anniversary of the kickstarter brings something sweet to help everyone else! :)

kaiizza
04-17-2015, 11:09 AM
Any thoughts about those of us with codes that have not been activated yet? think they will be good for 18 months?

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 11:10 AM
Any thoughts about those of us with codes that have not been activated yet? think they will be good for 18 months?

Hmm, good question. I imagine they would have to allow the extension for everyone.

KingGabriel
04-17-2015, 11:10 AM
I get the feeling this will annoy more people than it will help. (I'm not annoyed/I don't have a PP+ tier)

Scammanator
04-17-2015, 11:13 AM
*Jaw Drops*

Wasn't expecting that at all.

Well, as a Raid Leader, you will hear absolutely zero complaints from me for the next six months. (Not that I was likely to complain, anyway. I'm loving the Frost Ring.)

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 11:15 AM
I get the feeling this will annoy more people than it will help. (I'm not annoyed/I don't have a PP+ tier)

Considering it is generally the people with the higher tiers that complain about their tier perks not being activated, this is the great balancer to show that HexEnt cares and can admit they can't work fast enough to deliver everything fast enough. In my eyes, no-one should have any right to complain (although I am sure someone will anyway) because this is compensation for time lost and promises that are yet to be fulfilled (and of course the old 'value' arguments.)


It obviously isn't the perfect fix, but it is very generous and much better than just an apology that might sound a little hollow after all the waiting.

MatWith1T
04-17-2015, 11:20 AM
Brace for the oncoming whine-storm!

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 11:22 AM
Brace for the oncoming whine-storm!

I hope people have more sense than that, but I have my storm-gear ready, and I will be ready to evac into my storm-shelter. ;)

BKCshah
04-17-2015, 11:31 AM
I'm just not a fan of this approach: we aren't where we hoped to be, so to every one that spend $250 on a single KS tier, enjoy more drafts. Everyone else, well you aren't quite as important.

EDIT: The year of drafts was a generous add on from the original planned KS tiers.

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 11:31 AM
I can keep the printer on! Thank you.

hammer
04-17-2015, 11:33 AM
Unexpected yet awesome thank you.

chromus
04-17-2015, 11:34 AM
We've heard Cory apologize a million times for the delays in development. This kind of move will serve well to appease anyone who was questioning his sincerity. Great stuff.
With that said, it would be nice to give something - anything - to the lower backers + those who missed the KS. We don't have the stats but something tells me these players make up a not so small part of the current active community. I'm sure something can be done without destabilizing the economy (due to some possibly having a very large number of accounts).

yoyogod
04-17-2015, 11:34 AM
To be honest, I am slightly annoyed. I'm a Grand King, so I have even more stuff I was promised and don't have yet than the $250 tiers, but I don't get any free stuff as an apology for the wait.

I'm not too upset though, since I usually don't have time to draft and just end up rare drafting my weekly draft for life half the time anyway.

katkillad
04-17-2015, 11:43 AM
I'm just not a fan of this approach: we aren't where we hoped to be, so to every one that spend $250 on a single KS tier, enjoy more drafts. Everyone else, well you aren't quite as important.

EDIT: The year of drafts was a generous add on from the original planned KS tiers.

Agreed, it's obviously a very generous thing to do... However it is also a gift that isolates a lot of other players whether they didn't back at all, didn't back that much or backed more and don't see the benefit.

vickrpg
04-17-2015, 11:47 AM
As a Guild Master backer I'm doing cartwheels at this announcement.

Yay for stuff!

Axle
04-17-2015, 11:50 AM
Pretty sure it's directed at the players with useless tiers still like guild master. Most other tiers just get the bonus with them.

hex_colin
04-17-2015, 11:53 AM
Agreed, it's obviously a very generous thing to do... However it is also a gift that isolates a lot of other players whether they didn't back at all, didn't back that much or backed more and don't see the benefit.

More drafts firing helps everyone. End of story.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 11:59 AM
More drafts firing helps everyone. End of story.

Or the start of a cheerful 6 months of drafts firing regularly!

AdamAoE2
04-17-2015, 12:04 PM
As a lowly $85 backer, I wish I would have had more money to donate during the kickstarter. Oh well, as long as it keeps everyone happy. Grats to all the $250+ers.

Incindium
04-17-2015, 12:05 PM
I truthfully was a little bit annoyed with this announcement but Colin mentioning above that drafts should fire more often as a result is a really good point. Anything to make drafts fire more often is a good thing in my book.

ryuukan
04-17-2015, 12:08 PM
Don't worry guys, I'll pay it forward by being bad at drafting for another 6 months

N3rd4Christ
04-17-2015, 12:12 PM
Don't worry guys, I'll pay it forward by being bad at drafting for another 6 months

Remember.... Orange rarity symbols bad.... Don't take them pass them!

ryuukan
04-17-2015, 12:15 PM
Remember.... Orange rarity symbols bad.... Don't take them pass them!

Orange? I don't get AAs from packs

do I look like KingGabriel

MatWith1T
04-17-2015, 12:17 PM
More drafts firing helps everyone. End of story.

I was kinda hoping that without all of us having use-it-or-lose-it draft tickets every week, more people would opt for sealed or constructed with their new found freedom of choice with their playtime. Wishful thinking, I know.

poizonous
04-17-2015, 12:22 PM
My Complaint is a little bit different than others. Set 3 was supposed to be the "beginning" of equal grounds in terms of collecting a set. Now with 6 more months these backers will have at least 4 months of free set 3 drafts building their collections easier. Not exactly cool but that being said I dont mind this too much, just kind of upset that 2 weeks have gone by without a set 3 spoiler

plaguedealer
04-17-2015, 12:23 PM
I want to say thankyou, this is a very generous company. It is stuff like this that makes me believe that they are really trying to be the best tcg out there. It might take awhile, but I believe.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 12:24 PM
As a lowly $85 backer, I wish I would have had more money to donate during the kickstarter. Oh well, as long as it keeps everyone happy. Grats to all the $250+ers.

Me too. I wish often I was less destitute, but I make do with having great friends and family instead. :p

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 12:26 PM
"My Complaint".. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
https://kittybloger.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/ungrateful-human.jpg

darkwonders
04-17-2015, 12:36 PM
As a Pro + GK backer can I get my for life draft tickets extended to infinity and beyond?

Zophie
04-17-2015, 12:41 PM
If they're planning any other generous bonuses in the future I'll gladly take an extra Spectral Lotus Garden for my king tier please and thank you ;)

bootlace
04-17-2015, 12:45 PM
Collector tier furthers the gap atop the $250 KS tier value rankings.

Saeijou
04-17-2015, 12:53 PM
I get the feeling this will annoy more people than it will help. (I'm not annoyed/I don't have a PP+ tier)

although i profit from the additional 6 month as well... i feel the same...
the hate against backers is sometimes to high already... :/

funktion
04-17-2015, 12:54 PM
By my math this means that an additional ~49.5 thousand more draft codes will be introduced over the next 6 months.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 12:56 PM
If they're planning any other generous bonuses in the future I'll gladly take an extra Spectral Lotus Garden for my king tier please and thank you ;)

Hell, even if they made it BoA that would be pretty crazy. Although if they were handing out extra's of anything, I'd prefer they bump up the exclusive PvE cards/Mercs (I'd love to have a spare Mooof for my fiancee, and a cardboard samurai for her brother.) I would be just as happy if they just gave out a few things like sweet sleeves, a special AA that everyone gets 2x of (like the baby yeti), and an exclusive merc, for everyone signed up by 2 year the anniversary of the KS.

Raith
04-17-2015, 01:15 PM
They could have given a free draft code to all the backers since they all got 3 free draft codes to start. However, then slacker backers and non-kickstarter backers might complain. The line has to be made somewhere. Targeting the year free draft codes with an extension focuses in on the big backers that have yet to see their major perks in game.

Keeping draft queues firing in reasonable time frames is definitely a major plus. And this does it gradually over 6 months, instead of a big burst by giving one draft to all backers. There are some inequities above and below the $250 tiers, but as an easy reward to implement and spur game activity this seems to make sense.

They also did just give a free pack to most everyone which was generous in it's own right, even if it's not on the same value level as 6 months of drafts for a small subset of individuals.

shocker455
04-17-2015, 01:21 PM
Idk how to feel about this announcement. it seems like they did this because drafts might stop firing if they didn't, which would speak poorly for it's health. Drafts take a while to fire now days, but I think that set 2 is to blame there.

Set 2 is a terrible Draft set because of how pigeonholed you are after a few picks. Iv let a good amount of tickets expire , because I'm just not interested in set 2 draft

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 01:24 PM
I admit that I preferred 1-1-1 to 2-2-1 as well. I wouldn't go so far as to say that set 2 drafting is bad, it just caters to a different playstyle than I prefer. Keeping drafts firing regularly is definitely something that helps the game as a whole. So I definitely approve of this.

Blare731
04-17-2015, 01:34 PM
@ Nicosharp

Omg I died laughing when I saw that picture.


As for the reward. I'm GK backer so it doesn't really affect me, but I'm happy they are trying to do something to make up for long period of time it has been since we backed. It would be a little cool to give all ks and slacker backers an extra set 2 pack or something. Just to show a little faith for the everyone. But I can understand that their target audience for keeping people happy in waiting is the people that did back a decent amount and haven't gotten half of the rewards.

I'm actually in favor of waiting though, I'd rather them take 6 months or even another year to give all the rewards in due time then give the rewards early and they will be lackluster. For example, the reason they haven't given us the 20 legendary pieces of equipment or even let us open chests. Is because they want more content to be out so that we can actually get meaningful rewards instead of just appeasing everyone's impatience and giving you 20 legendary pieces where the pool of legendary equipment is at like 4 different things. We've waited this long, we might as well have faith and wait a little longer.

hex_colin
04-17-2015, 01:37 PM
I was kinda hoping that without all of us having use-it-or-lose-it draft tickets every week, more people would opt for sealed or constructed with their new found freedom of choice with their playtime. Wishful thinking, I know.

Once they announce the details of the $100K tournament and qualification, etc. Constructed queues will be firing non-stop. Guaranteed. No need to worry. :)

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 01:38 PM
I admit that I preferred 1-1-1 to 2-2-1 as well. I wouldn't go so far as to say that set 2 drafting is bad, it just caters to a different playstyle than I prefer. Keeping drafts firing regularly is definitely something that helps the game as a whole. So I definitely approve of this.

I liked 2-2-2 drafts more than 2-2-1 drafts, and 1-1-1 also more than 2-2-1, but I don't hate 2-2-1. I am, however, completely and utterly sick of 2-2-1, and I cannot wait for set 3 to give us something fresh. Don't get me wrong - I appreciated the more focused theme of 2-2-1 for about 6 weeks, then it really started to wear me down, and now that I have played it to death (including two major holiday events totaling just under 50 drafts alone) I need something fresh. I am sure that I will someday miss 2-2-1, but it won't be any time soon.

BKCshah
04-17-2015, 01:39 PM
If the game needs these free draft tickets to have queues fire at an acceptable rate, that says plenty about the current health of the game.

Numerous times the need for content (new PvP sets especially) has been stressed by Cory. Sets are reportedly complete in R&D, yet the ability to implement them in a reasonable time appears to remain an issue with no significant Set 3 information beside the new keywords over 4 months after the Set 2 release.

People backed the game in expectation of KS rewards and have been waiting patiently for just as long. Giving benefits to a certain group of backers for delays experienced by every backer is not ideal. A Collector backer has not had additional 'hardship' from these delays compared to a King or lower backer. This is approximately 36% of the $250 backers that are not Pro backers. This fact contributes to the idea that those who backed below $250 to get exclusive mercenaries/spectral lotus garden/etc. are less important or don't deserve consideration. This idea is not this update's intention, but it's not difficult to see how people could reach that conclusion.

Also, the announcement would seem to suggest that those KS benefits are a long way from being realized.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 01:42 PM
If the game needs these free draft tickets to have queues fire at an acceptable rate, that says plenty about the current health of the game.

Numerous times the need for content (new PvP sets especially) has been stressed by Cory. Sets are reportedly complete in R&D, yet the ability to implement them in a reasonable time appears to remain an issue with no significant Set 3 information beside the new keywords over 4 months after the Set 2 release.

People backed the game in expectation of KS rewards and have been waiting patiently for just as long. Giving benefits to a certain group of backers for delays experienced by every backer is not ideal. A Collector backer has not had additional 'hardship' from these delays compared to a King or lower backer. This is approximately 36% of the $250 backers that are not Pro backers. This fact contributes to the idea that those who backed below $250 to get exclusive mercenaries/spectral lotus garden/etc. are less important or don't deserve consideration. This idea is not this update's intention, but it's not difficult to see how people could reach that conclusion.

Also, the announcement would seem to suggest that those KS benefits are a long way from being realized.

Posted this in the announcement thread.


The collectors getting this boost is nothing more than collateral damage - HexEnt has no way to know which tiers each draft code came from (since they were separate codes), and some players gifted or sold the year of drafts rather than redeeming them themselves.

In short - Collector gets a freebie because DC, RL and GL all are falling behind.

Blare731
04-17-2015, 01:50 PM
If the game needs these free draft tickets to have queues fire at an acceptable rate, that says plenty about the current health of the game.

Numerous times the need for content (new PvP sets especially) has been stressed by Cory. Sets are reportedly complete in R&D, yet the ability to implement them in a reasonable time appears to remain an issue with no significant Set 3 information beside the new keywords over 4 months after the Set 2 release.

People backed the game in expectation of KS rewards and have been waiting patiently for just as long. Giving benefits to a certain group of backers for delays experienced by every backer is not ideal. A Collector backer has not had additional 'hardship' from these delays compared to a King or lower backer. This is approximately 36% of the $250 backers that are not Pro backers. This fact contributes to the idea that those who backed below $250 to get exclusive mercenaries/spectral lotus garden/etc. are less important or don't deserve consideration. This idea is not this update's intention, but it's not difficult to see how people could reach that conclusion.

I don't think hex in any way NEEDS free draft tickets to stimulate draft queues. I think that CZE knowing that set 3 is delayed wants to ensure that draft is stimulated. I'm sure that they will be planning to release sets a bit more frequently so the lulls are less noticeable. There is no way to completely eliminate the feeling of having too much time to play through a set without then making each set feel rushed. As for the reward, I think it's a matter of them prioritizing people who spent 4x more than the average cost for a new game, and the fact that they have the most amount of rewards that have yet to be fulfilled.




Also, the announcement would seem to suggest that those KS benefits are a long way from being realized.

I think it was also suggesting that most of the features we are hoping for will be out in 6 months.

BKCshah
04-17-2015, 01:50 PM
Assuming they don't have records of the emails sent to every backer, it would be difficult. However, it would be possible to simply look at any account with the Collector benefit. If there is a year draft benefit, the code expires as planned. If there is a year draft benefit on any account without raid leader, dungeon crawler or guild leader, that code could be allowed to expire as well. Those codes were purchased assuming it was a one-year benefit.

How practical is this? Perhaps it's not practical, but it could be done.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 01:55 PM
Assuming they don't have records of the emails sent to every backer, it would be difficult. However, it would be possible to simply look at any account with the Collector benefit. If there is a year draft benefit, the code expires as planned. If there is a year draft benefit on any account without raid leader, dungeon crawler or guild leader, that code could be allowed to expire as well. Those codes were purchased assuming it was a one-year benefit.

How practical is this? Perhaps it's not practical, but it could be done.

Actually, it probably can't be done because of the gifting and stacked tiers - someone who bought 2x collector and 1x guild leader can't just have all their draft codes shut off, and in the same breath, someone who got gifted a draft code from a collector would be able to cash in a code that should have been stopped.

There is literally no way to ensure it happens fairly, and I am sure they will have looked into every option available before deciding on this.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 01:56 PM
Putting thousands and thousands of more free packs into the economy just to make people happier?

I wonder if the amount of people paying for drafts is that low or if it's a sign that it will be at least another 6 months before we get any more significant content or Set 3.

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 02:00 PM
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/43266283.jpg

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 02:01 PM
Putting thousands and thousands of more free packs into the economy just to make people happier?

I wonder if the amount of people paying for drafts is that low or if it's a sign that it will be at least another 6 months before we get any more significant content or Set 3.

Actually, I think it is more a case of them giving out the year of drafts thinking the worst case scenario would be us having the codes expire just before set 4 launched - adding 6 months will probably land us just before, or just after set 4 lands. Sure, it is thousands more free packs, but it the impact will be more or less nullified by the time we are on a regular release schedule. And the benefit far outweighs the negatives (I mean, thousands of free packs may devalue the cards we get, but having cheap cards at the start of the rush for competitive constructed will draw in a lot of loyal customers that will appreciate the cheap buy-in.)

It isn't the most optimal situation, sure, but it isn't terrible or a sign of anything bad.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 02:06 PM
It isn't the most optimal situation, sure, but it isn't terrible or a sign of anything bad.

Even someone as generous as Cory isn't just going to randomly give out that many free drafts on a whim because he feels like it. Big impact or not that many more additional drafts has an impact on card value and people's collections which are topics Hex as been open about being extremely important to them. It's obviously damage control for something.

KingGabriel
04-17-2015, 02:08 PM
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/43266283.jpg
Watermarked....meme.... my one... weakness! *faints

Slamdancer
04-17-2015, 02:09 PM
I haven't used my draft code yet, so i'm a bit salty. Is there any process for us backers holding them back? I think i've read that question before in the thread, just wanted to bring it up once more.

Raith
04-17-2015, 02:24 PM
I'm in the same boat with a code I haven't redeemed yet, but I'm not too concerned. It seems like a good idea to find out the answer before getting upset. :)

Based on past Hex practice I assume even codes that have yet to be redeemed will still get 18 months. Even if they don't get extended, we delayed for own reasons so that's not on Hexent.

plaguedealer
04-17-2015, 02:28 PM
This extra 6 months is fair for the people who paid $100 extra bucks in the kickstarter for things that have not yet developed.

I am sorry for those that waited to use the perk, but you should not get another six months. This is absolutley fair since the point of the extra six months is because collectors and pros have been using the perk for awhile.

It also shows that we have a few more months before we see dungeons and raids.

Vorsa
04-17-2015, 02:29 PM
Huzzah; thanks for the free drafts! :cool:

zadies
04-17-2015, 02:36 PM
My Complaint is a little bit different than others. Set 3 was supposed to be the "beginning" of equal grounds in terms of collecting a set. Now with 6 more months these backers will have at least 4 months of free set 3 drafts building their collections easier. Not exactly cool but that being said I dont mind this too much, just kind of upset that 2 weeks have gone by without a set 3 spoiler

With the originally promised 4 months a set it would have been set 5 that should have been the begining of the equal grounds in terms of collecting sets.

I think the move is thought out, but it also makes me wonder if we will have raids by the end of the year.

Also this was mentioned in the something that could be done for the dc backers thread before Cory came out and apologized that there was a miss communication. I wonder if it had been thought of before that.

Also to the lower tier backers maybe they can just up everyones count of pve only cards that they actually are getting with their different tiers by 1(other then the lotus garden)

Turtlewing
04-17-2015, 02:50 PM
This extra 6 months is fair for the people who paid $100 extra bucks in the kickstarter for things that have not yet developed.

I am sorry for those that waited to use the perk, but you should not get another six months. This is absolutley fair since the point of the extra six months is because collectors and pros have been using the perk for awhile.

It also shows that we have a few more months before we see dungeons and raids.

But then they have to draw the line on how long you should have been allowed to wait before losing the bonus months.

It's easier to juts make them all 1.5 year's now than to pick a cutoff an invite argument over why that cutoff was a day/week/month to early.

Kramer
04-17-2015, 02:56 PM
As a Grand King and Pro, I am NOT in the least upset by this. It broadens the player pool for me to find someone to draft with and considering Raid Leaders and Guild Master's have not yet received their main draw reward, I think it was a brilliant idea. Nice Job Cory!

Phenteo
04-17-2015, 03:00 PM
I'm in the same boat with a code I haven't redeemed yet, but I'm not too concerned. It seems like a good idea to find out the answer before getting upset. :)

Based on past Hex practice I assume even codes that have yet to be redeemed will still get 18 months. Even if they don't get extended, we delayed for own reasons so that's not on Hexent.

It works exactly like you think. If you haven't claimed your code yet YOU TOO get the extra 6 months. We're not robots and we always try to do right by the players.

We took a look at the numbers and we felt this is a wise option to move forward with.

zadies
04-17-2015, 03:01 PM
At this point though maybe you should think about actually announcing a hard cut off on the use of those codes which we were told to expect some point in the future or even a marginally vague one like when set 4 launches due to no free packs begin generated when set 4 launches in the ks tiers.

MatWith1T
04-17-2015, 03:01 PM
It works exactly like you think. If you haven't claimed your code yet YOU TOO get the extra 6 months. We're not robots and we always try to do right by the players.

We took a look at the numbers and we felt this is a wise option to move forward with.

Robots could make far more interesting balloon animals.
Hey, can we look into some balloon animal robots for HexCon?

Raith
04-17-2015, 03:19 PM
Thanks Phenteo.

I'm also curious about the cutoff date to use the codes, but I expect it's difficult to have a hard date since it's likely tied to a certain number of features being in game (maybe even full release). It seems like a hard date is impossible to provide given potential delays. Regardless, I will probably use mine at the start of set 3 anyways.

majin
04-17-2015, 03:25 PM
after reading the comments, I now agree that pro player tier backers like me shouldn't receive it and it's fair.

this is really for RL and DC tiers (bonus for collectors) as their perks aren't in yet.

as usual, great move on CZE's part making them feel that they aren't forgotten

Phenteo
04-17-2015, 03:26 PM
Thanks Phenteo.

I'm also curious about the cutoff date to use the codes, but I expect it's difficult to have a hard date since it's likely tied to a certain number of features being in game (maybe even full release). It seems like a hard date is impossible to provide given potential delays. Regardless, I will probably use mine at the start of set 3 anyways.

Once a hard date is set, we will give everyone plenty of time to claim the code and try to contact everyone in as many avenues as possible.

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 03:32 PM
I don't really think there should be a cutoff date to use your kickstarter codes. I know it was announced that there would be one eventually, but I hope the devs reconsider. Unless there are major downsides that I haven't thought of the positives seem to far outweigh the negatives of allowing code redemption forever.

DocX
04-17-2015, 03:55 PM
To be honest, I am slightly annoyed. I'm a Grand King, so I have even more stuff I was promised and don't have yet than the $250 tiers, but I don't get any free stuff as an apology for the wait.

I'm not too upset though, since I usually don't have time to draft and just end up rare drafting my weekly draft for life half the time anyway.

I'm a Grand King and I'm happy to have more folks available in the Draft queues. And I tend to rare draft as well, but that's just because I'm not a good player :-)

negotiator
04-17-2015, 04:48 PM
This anouncement makes me wish i would have never spent money on this game so much more!!!! I ended up already spending about $200 on this game. I've been playing this game since right when i seen it come out over 8 months ago. If had known about the kickstarter when it came out i would have joined it. The problem i have is i have seen before many times backer rewards increaced. But because i and many others, did not see the kickstarter before it ended. We get nothing for our support. I started when darkspire AA's were available in tournaments yet. And it just makes it such an uneven playing field in constructed often because a lot who backed the game have so much for card choice now compared to me.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 04:52 PM
This anouncement makes me wish i would have never spent money on this game so much more!!!! I ended up already spending about $200 on this game. I've been playing this game since right when i seen it come out over 8 months ago. If had known about the kickstarter when it came out i would have joined it. The problem i have is i have seen before many times backer rewards increaced. But because i and many others, did not see the kickstarter before it ended. We get nothing for our support. I started when darkspire AA's were available in tournaments yet. And it just makes it such an uneven playing field in constructed often because a lot who backed the game have so much for card choice now compared to me.

Post-kickstarter, there has only been one notable 'increase' to backer rewards (this one, the 6 more months.) Everything else has stayed static, barring a confusing little period where DC was getting mixed messages (which turned out to be a mistake that was corrected, not a buff.)

I think you are exaggerating just a tiny amount about how much favouritism there is towards the KS players.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 05:02 PM
I think you are exaggerating just a tiny amount about how much favouritism there is towards the KS players.

They just handed roughly $200 to every Kickstarter backer at a certain level for apparently no reason. Slacker backers get nothing, players with Pro Player/GK are devalued for 6 more months, everyone below $250 tiers get nothing. Whether the intention or not, it will certainly appear that way to anyone who missed the Kickstarter. Just another blow of what they missed out on.

zadies
04-17-2015, 05:04 PM
None of the constructed decks cost more then 200 dollars... if your main issue was wanting to compete in constructed you could have just net decked and bought a competitive deck. The fact is people choose not to laser focus on a competitive deck in this game then attempt to say something else is at fault. More choices don't really make a better deck.

This is really just an admission that the year of free drafts were all the time they thought it would initially take for the pve rollout that people were paying for and now extending the time to actually match their new expected pve rollout.

Your did not support the launch of the game, your payments did not create this game... if kickstarter didn't happen you wouldn't have a game to be playing period.

If there hadn't been so many people that backed at high levels for the pve portion of the game it is likely it would have been placed even more on the back burner then it already had been.

Set 1 was released in beta a lot more then 8 months ago, you got what you paid for the moment you started to play, the kickstarter backers this is aimed at have not gotten what they paid for yet. The fact that they got a better deal for something that could have amounted at the time to vapor ware is why they as a whole got a better deal then you.

poizonous
04-17-2015, 05:05 PM
Yeah Xena, I normally agree with you but this extra 6 months is pretty much equivalent to 200 bucks extra to every 250 tier backer. I already stated my issue with the extra generous gift but i dont think there is much defending it. Shouldnt have been done

zadies
04-17-2015, 05:07 PM
It depends on why you think the initial 1 year of drafts was offered in the first place, if they were setting a timer on when they thought pve would fully launch with guilds/raids/dungeons it makes perfect sense to extend the pvp bonus until the other tiers are acctually fully online.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 05:07 PM
They just handed roughly $200 to every Kickstarter backer at a certain level for apparently no reason. Slacker backers get nothing, players with Pro Player/GK are devalued for 6 more months, everyone below $250 tiers get nothing. Whether the intention or not, it will certainly appear that way to anyone who missed the Kickstarter. Just another blow of what they missed out on.

One extension, as an apology to backers who aren't getting what they paid for in a reasonable timeframe, is a lot different to the statement that boils down to 'KS players keep getting more free stuff' - this is a one off.

As for how it is seen by non-KS players? Sure, it may sound bad, but considering the game wouldn't exist at all without us, I think things will be forgiven and forgotten when the game goes into full release. (And for the record, I am only a king backer, so my tier gains nothing from this. I was gifted a year of drafts, so it affects me anyway, but I would have supported this either way.)

Yoss
04-17-2015, 05:08 PM
I don't really think there should be a cutoff date to use your kickstarter codes. I know it was announced that there would be one eventually, but I hope the devs reconsider. Unless there are major downsides that I haven't thought of the positives seem to far outweigh the negatives of allowing code redemption forever.

I'm curious what the pro/con list is.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 05:11 PM
One extension, as an apology to backers who aren't getting what they paid for in a reasonable timeframe, is a lot different to the statement that boils down to 'KS players keep getting more free stuff' - this is a one off.

As for how it is seen by non-KS players? Sure, it may sound bad, but considering the game wouldn't exist at all without us, I think things will be forgiven and forgotten when the game goes into full release. (And for the record, I am only a king backer, so my tier gains nothing from this. I was gifted a year of drafts, so it affects me anyway, but I would have supported this either way.)

As an apology to SOME backers. You essentially just posted an argument saying it is favoritism, which you just said it wasn't a few posts up.

bootlace
04-17-2015, 05:12 PM
I was gifted a year of drafts, so it affects me anyway, but I would have supported this either way.)

I'm not sure you would have considering your past attitude towards higher KS backers and their attitude of always wanting stuff:


Would I like a higher tier? Sure. But I wouldn't even care about tiers if it wasn't talked about every freaking time there is an update coming. I am sick of hearing about it, OK?

zadies
04-17-2015, 05:14 PM
No thrawn the backers that aren't getting an apology are those that didn't specifically back anything to do with PvE so it is not favoritism it is an apology to those who backed for unimplemented features... you can't say that pvp isn't fully implemented even if the release schedule for sets isn't being hit.

For those backers I suggest uping the number of ks pve only cards they get when they are finally implemented :p

A number of pve 250 backers thought the 1 year draft was actually setting a timeframe for their tiers to be implemented, and no one has actually addressed this being a valid reason for the extension.

L1ght
04-17-2015, 05:15 PM
Thanks Cory - Not every day you get a $182.00 USD gift in the mail!

I've played just a little over 100 drafts so far, but it has been a while now since I last logged in. I also haven't redeemed my draft code yet either. Was going to wait till the game came out of beta, but might just redeem it now and get in on the action again!

Also definitely picked the right tier - Collectors *high five*!

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 05:16 PM
As an apology to SOME backers. You essentially just posted an argument saying it is favoritism, which you just said it wasn't a few posts up.

An apology to some players isn't the same as favouritism. Now, if they were to keep giving those players free stuff, with zero reason for it, then sure, it is favouritism.

As it stands, I said that there isn't a pattern of favouritism towards KS players (refuting what negotiator said.) If you would like to discuss a history of favouritism, then bring some proof that there has been a history of it - because one event that is essentially a public apology is not in any way favouring anyone - it is trying to make amends for a wrong.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 05:17 PM
I'm not sure you would have considering your past attitude towards higher KS backers and their attitude of always wanting stuff:

Actually, I would support it because I don't hate that I don't have those tiers, I hate the constant complaints. And this will stop most of those complaints. Perfect solution for me.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 05:17 PM
No thrawn the backers that aren't getting an apology are those that didn't specifically back anything to do with PvE so it is not favoritism it is an apology to those who backed for unimplemented features... you can't say that pvp isn't fully implemented even if the release schedule for sets isn't being hit.

Double backs, guilds, leagues, mobile, etc. I certainly could argue PvP isn't' fully implemented if that was at all what I was trying to say.

No where in Cory's post does it specify PvE.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 05:21 PM
An apology to some players isn't the same as favouritism. Now, if they were to keep giving those players free stuff, with zero reason for it, then sure, it is favouritism.

As it stands, I said that there isn't a pattern of favouritism towards KS players (refuting what negotiator said.) If you would like to discuss a history of favouritism, then bring some proof that there has been a history of it - because one event that is essentially a public apology is not in any way favouring anyone - it is trying to make amends for a wrong.

I never actually said it was favoritism. Just trying to point out, how is handing out such a large gift to a small percent of Kickstarter backers going to appear? But alas, I'm just going to stop posting since the entire thing seems very stupid to me for many reasons and the quickest way to a warning/ban around here is to disagree with someone with a title and/or very high post count.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 05:22 PM
I never actually said it was favoritism. Just trying to point out, how is handing out such a large gift to a small percent of Kickstarter backers going to appear? But alas, I'm just going to stop posting since the entire thing seems stupid to me and the quickest way to a warning/ban around here is to disagree with someone with a very high post count and/or title.

Well, I addressed the part where you said it would seem that way - and I believe that it won't matter after all the rewards are delivered and the game is launched. This event will be a blip on the radar.

Lukezors
04-17-2015, 05:24 PM
Double backs, guilds, leagues, mobile, etc. I certainly could argue PvP isn't' fully implemented if that was at all what I was trying to say.

No where in Cory's post does it specify PvE.

I agree. I know some of the 250 don't have their features, but one of the main reasons I backed was for double backs which isn't implemented either. I don't really feel like I deserve anything for having to wait for this but as a king backer I definitely feel left out/forgotten by this announcement.

zadies
04-17-2015, 05:25 PM
Thrawn the only people who have paid for anything that they haven't acctually gotten yet are the rl/gl and you can argue the dc tier... every other tier has had it's rewards fulfilled... if you can't see who is being apologized to you are blind.

Voormas
04-17-2015, 05:25 PM
Drafts continuing to fire frequently is great for everyone because drafting is awesome; it's a big plus to getting more players, which will eventually reach enough of a critical mass that free drafts will no longer be relevant to how often queues go off

I don't get any direct benefit out of this, but the indirect benefit is good (drafting whenever I have the time) and the overall benefit (attracting and keeping new players because they can have a go at this awesome limited format whenever they feel like it) is what everyone should want

I hope within the next 6 months we also get lots more PvE stuff to back up getting and keeping more players, I believe in you guys!

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 05:28 PM
I agree. I know some of the 250 don't have their features, but one of the main reasons I backed was for double backs which isn't implemented either. I don't really feel like I deserve anything for having to wait for this but as a king backer I definitely feel left out/forgotten by this announcement.

I feel the same about guilds (I would have backed grand king + collector, or guild leader + 2x collector if I could have afforded it), but my king tier doesn't count towards that. And I find that fair - I didn't pay an extra $130 to get a very specific perk that is completely useless right now.

In fact, there are tons of features I want to see but won't be 'compensated for' - if they turn around and give something you won't hear me complaining, but frankly I don't see that we need anything. I would rather just get a sweet anniversary package for every player (including new players coming in between now and the anniversary) as a general thankyou to everyone, than to emphasise KS players even more.

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 05:35 PM
Drafts continuing to fire frequently is great for everyone because drafting is awesome; it's a big plus to getting more players, which will eventually reach enough of a critical mass that free drafts will no longer be relevant to how often queues go off

I don't get any direct benefit out of this, but the indirect benefit is good (drafting whenever I have the time) and the overall benefit (attracting and keeping new players because they can have a go at this awesome limited format whenever they feel like it) is what everyone should want

I hope within the next 6 months we also get lots more PvE stuff to back up getting and keeping more players, I believe in you guys!

Ultimately this is the point I think, all of this stuff about apologizing for late deliveries and whatnot is a nice gesture and all, but the real meat is anyone who wants to draft is served by having drafts firing regularly, and until there is more stuff to draw new players they likely don't want to risk taking a hit in participation. The problem is we're still a very small game and very small community, and the features needed to pull in more players aren't really there yet. I'm hoping that in 6 months they expect to not need this crutch anymore.

Thrawn
04-17-2015, 05:47 PM
Then why not say "We are worried about drafts keeping firing with our limited beta community size, we're giving out free drafts to a bunch of people to make sure it keeps active."

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 05:51 PM
People will latch on and complain about either of those things. So they might as well go with the more positive message of extending people's free drafts for a year since they're running so far behind schedule. Every act does not need to be fully enumerated. Anything they will do will have wide ranging consequences. Those consequences for this act are positive in pretty much every vector. It was a good move regardless of how they message it to us.

zadies
04-17-2015, 05:51 PM
Because saying it the way that they did actually appeases a portion of the population that has been getting more vocal expressing thier discontent since the miss communication with the dc rewards while having that as an additional effect.

bootlace
04-17-2015, 05:59 PM
or if it's a sign that it will be at least another 6 months before we get any more significant content or Set 3.

Last concrete details we heard stated that Double Backs, Asynch, Crafting, 1st Dungeon, Keeps, Guilds, Two-Step Authenticator is expected within 1H of 2015. We have an update from last week that says 'everything is going smoothly and everything is great'. So unless I hear communication stating otherwise, I'm going to base my expectation on their last official communication. If it's not happening, then the responsible thing would be to communicate that to us and let us know what the new roadmap roughly looks like.

negotiator
04-17-2015, 06:01 PM
Well i don't see on the kickstarter page when it acually ended, I just know i started playing this game sometime around june 2014 and at that it was open beta so i and everyone else was asking how to get in kickstarter. My point is the rewards for kickstarter backers were extremely good discounts on packs and offered nice rewards. And it cost close to $80 just for 4 monsuun. So if i wanted some more high value legendarys to go with it i don't see how you can say my deck cost for constructed would only be 200 at most

zadies
04-17-2015, 06:07 PM
Kickstarter ended in June 2013 about a year before you even started playing.... it's actually a big green box on the updates page.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 06:09 PM
Well i don't see on the kickstarter page when it acually ended, I just know i started playing this game sometime around june 2014 and at that it was open beta so i and everyone else was asking how to get in kickstarter. My point is the rewards for kickstarter backers were extremely good discounts on packs and offered nice rewards. And it cost close to $80 just for 4 monsuun. So if i wanted some more high value legendarys to go with it i don't see how you can say my deck cost for constructed would only be 200 at most


Funded: Jun 7 2013

No-one could pledge after that point - except slacker backers which ended just before beta started last April. No tiers (even slacker backers) have been available since beta started, and the only things that have been given out so far are rewards for those tiers (and now this 6 month extension.)

zadies
04-17-2015, 06:11 PM
As to the four monsuun comment none of the undefeated vip decks run 4 most only run 2.

the most expensive vip deck was

Player: Erazor
Champion: Zared Venomscorn
Deck
4 Angel of Dawn 1,396p
12 Blood Shard
3 Crackling Rot 13p
9 Diamond Shard
4 Living Totem 238p
2 Meek 4p
3 Monsuun, Shogun of Winda’jin 1,755p
4 Murder 6p
2 Repel 6p
4 Shard of Retribution 22p
1 The Killipede 794p
4 Vampire King 1,491p
4 Wakizashi Ambusher 21p
4 Xentoth’s Inquisitor 198p

Using the average prices overall for the cards from hex price.com that decks main board was 196.06. Thus under 200.00 many of the decks were much cheaper then this one due to it running 3 chase rares.

Shivdaddy
04-17-2015, 06:33 PM
I hate to say it, but this pisses me off. Yes, im a little jealous. Im confused how this does not trickle down the Kickstarter backers at a prorated rate? I am a King backer and the main thing we have going for us is the Lotus Garden and we are still waiting. This really feels like the rich getting richer.

Mahes
04-17-2015, 06:35 PM
I am not sure how I feel about this.

I do find it odd that this does not affect Grand King+. They too paid for those benefits even if at a discount. Collectors made out like a bandit. Pro Players technically did not lose anything but I am pretty sure most of them were also looking forward to what the other tiers would bring too the game. I am not sure what the easiest solution is and this perhaps is the best solution. I do think though that the 500+ tier should also benefit as they too are waiting for the same thing that they paid for.

I am not sure if hi-lighting the kickstarter benefits all the time, is in the best interest of the game for drawing in new players. As a new player if I saw a group of players getting benefits even beyond what they initially paid for, it would have an effect on me. We just all got a free pack of cards. Now 3 out of the 4 $250.00 tiers just got an extension of free drafts for 6 more months. Say raiding or guilds do not end up getting thier benefits within the next 6 months. Does the process repeat?

I won't lie when I say there is a bit of confusion with "Everything is smooth and going great" and needing 6 more months of free drafts to keep certain backers happy. This implies that we are still a long ways off from seeing thier benefits?

These are just random thoughts I have...

For the record I am a Pro Player, not a GK+.

zadies
04-17-2015, 06:37 PM
I would really like to just see all kickstarter only PvE rewards just get doubled at this point:p but that really is just a pipe dream fantasy really don't see it happening at least not with the gardens but it would be so awesome if it did.

Xenavire
04-17-2015, 06:41 PM
I would really like to just see all kickstarter only PvE rewards just get doubled at this point:p but that really is just a pipe dream fantasy really don't see it happening at least not with the gardens but it would be so awesome if it did.

As I said in the other thread, I wouldn't be complaining if they doubled the exclusive mercs+PvE cards (so we all have playsets + spare mercs), because that would really help everyone (and lower the prices just enough to give new players a decent shot of picking up some cool stuff.)

But I don't think the gardens should be doubled. I wouldn't mind having more, but the idea was for them to be limited enough to make the lotuses worth something. I am not sure they would be if we doubled them at this point. (Not that I would mind, having 2 gardens would allow me to burn a set every 2 days, if I felt like it.)

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 06:48 PM
Everything can be going very smoothly, and coming along nicely, but still be a long way off. I don't really think those statements are antithetical.

Yoss
04-17-2015, 07:13 PM
Then why not say "We are worried about drafts keeping firing with our limited beta community size, we're giving out free drafts to a bunch of people to make sure it keeps active."

You actually expect a company to come out and say that?

Xexist
04-17-2015, 07:23 PM
This remind of of way back when, when some people were miffed that one of the stretch goals was a year of free draft (essentially making the stretch goal really a let down for PP, and GK+).

If I recall the consensus back then, was that the whole reason they were giving the year of free draft, was to help sell all the other tiers which were underselling compared to PP/GK.

I admit I was one of those 'miffed' people, but I am well over it now, and am just happy for what I have and try not to concern myself too much with what other people are given.

http://sandysamra.finvasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Greedy4.jpg

Mahes
04-17-2015, 07:24 PM
Everything can be going very smoothly, and coming along nicely, but still be a long way off. I don't really think those statements are antithetical.

While it can be smooth, coming along nicely implies that everything is on schedule. If this were the case, there would not be a need to extend 6 months as the other stuff which is already behind schedule would be coming out within that time. I'm very sure that thier schedule did not mean for stuff to take this long.

zadies
04-17-2015, 07:32 PM
Raids and more then 1 dungeon which they could be counting the arena as weren't in the next 6 month schedule they laid out... and they can have in game guilds without the gl perk meaning squat just implementing it in the chat interface without any pve which was the main selling point of that tier.

So yes things could be going completely according to the most recently revised schedule and still be more then 6 months out.

Their original schedule when kickstarter was going on was probably to have everything raids/guilds/dungeons out before the 1 year was up, and it hasn't been but they can still be sticking to the most recently released schedule and go well that 1 year we bought with the free drafts... yeah that is out the window.

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 07:33 PM
While it can be smooth, coming along nicely implies that everything is on schedule. If this were the case, there would not be a need to extend 6 months as the other stuff which is already behind schedule would be coming out within that time. I'm very sure that thier schedule did not mean for stuff to take this long.

Seems like reaching to me. We have no idea what the schedule is, since the kickstarter schedule is busted. The fact that the schedule extends further out than this month, of even to the 6 month mark doesn't mean things on it can't be coming along nicely. Heck even if it extends to another year from today things on it can be coming along nicely. The phrase does not indicate timing. Just that there have not been any major hangups lately.

Edit: You've been remarkably calm and collected lately zadies. I'm really impressed by how much I'm enjoying reading your posts.

zadies
04-17-2015, 07:46 PM
I have opinions and don't mind being blunt and obnoxious... I'm sure the people that dissagree with me still think I'm a jerk which is why they don't really address what the main thrust of my argument is that this is a valid apology due to the fact when originally sold they expected all the niche tier stuff to be implemented in the first year thus the 1 year timing on the drafts could have just as easily been 6 months or 2 years when the kick starter was going on.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 07:48 PM
As a king backer I don't think it can be said that only the $250+ tiers have been waiting for their rewards. Most of the PVE cards, Blood Dragon deck, Mercs, and most of all the Lotus Gardens are still in limbo. I was hoping to have the garden supplement my drafting since at the time I couldn't afford the extra $130. I've been mostly patient (just a few bursts of rage) along with the rest of the KS but it does seem like $120 and below aren't getting the same level of love.

With all that said, HexEnt and Cory have always been very stand up with us and I can't be mad at them any more. Disappointed and jealous, but it what it is.

Gwaer
04-17-2015, 07:50 PM
I still hope we don't get lotus gardens until the last possible second. Preferably two or three seconds after the last possible second.

zadies
04-17-2015, 07:58 PM
I'm sorry but the king and below backers can't prove without reasonable doubt they backed specifically for the pve while the rl/gl/dc can certainly do so given they backed specifically for a niche reward tied specifically for that undelivered content...

It's easy to say I backed for something that everyone gets that isn't in yet while still completely enjoying everything that everyone gets that everyone backed for... prior to the arena there was 0 reason for someone interested solely in PvE to play this game at all, unless they wanted to do something with their draft tickets... and arena is going to get old if it isn't already probably before the rest of the PvE drops.

I'd love gardens now simply because I could make some incredibly interesting arena decks with them.

If they don't double them I'd love it if they doubled the output of them for the first 3 months that we had them.

BKCshah
04-17-2015, 08:00 PM
This remind of of way back when, when some people were miffed that one of the stretch goals was a year of free draft (essentially making the stretch goal really a let down for PP, and GK+).

If I recall the consensus back then, was that the whole reason they were giving the year of free draft, was to help sell all the other tiers which were underselling compared to PP/GK.


This was not a stretch goal, so the consensus makes sense.

From the KS Page: Note that we added 1 free booster draft a week for 1 year per account to the Dungeon Crawler, Raid Leader, Guild Master, and Collector tiers!

For the KS, it was successful. The initial benefit was more than reasonable when you consider what it would 'cost' a new player. It is easily 25,000 plat worth of value. This added 6 months is generous (additional 12,000 plat) , but it feels like a slight to other backers/players. The KS was great. However, Hex needs to more than the KS player base to survive. I would feel insulted by this great 'update' if I contributed at a lower tier or joined a little later as a paying customer.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 08:07 PM
I'm sorry but the king and below backers can't prove without reasonable doubt they backed specifically for the pve while the rl/gl/dc can certainly do so given they backed specifically for a niche reward tied specifically for that undelivered content...

It's easy to say I backed for something that everyone gets that isn't in yet while still completely enjoying everything that everyone gets that everyone backed for... prior to the arena there was 0 reason for someone interested solely in PvE to play this game at all, unless they wanted to do something with their draft tickets... and arena is going to get old if it isn't already probably before the rest of the PvE drops.

I'd love gardens now simply because I could make some incredibly interesting arena decks with them.

If they don't double them I'd love it if they doubled the output of them for the first 3 months that we had them.

That's not exactly a great litmus test as the same can be said of the rl/gl/dc backers who only backed at those tiers after pp was sold out. The boost wasn't given because PVE was expected to be delayed but because those tiers weren't selling.

zadies
04-17-2015, 08:12 PM
Actually it's a great litmus test for a lawsuit.

Are you sure those tiers weren't selling because there was no original timetable for the pve and with the announcement of a 1 year draft it could have been viewed as a timetable.

BKCshah
04-17-2015, 08:14 PM
The fact that it was added to collector tier as well would indicate that it was done as a selling point.

zadies
04-17-2015, 08:17 PM
Not necessarily given the fact it took 8 months to get the aa project off the ground for the collector tier rewards.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 08:20 PM
There was no real timetable for anything in this game at the time of the KS. But it was known that pp was the best tier value wise at the time with the info at hand. Either way, your argument is shaky considering that they never mentioned anything about PVE in the announcement. It's an assumption at best.

zadies
04-17-2015, 08:23 PM
Actually there was a time table... the time table was for the game to be fully released by now.

Given the 6 months was framed as an apology and the major portion of the game that is unreleased are the pve rewards and the fact that the majority of those benefiting from this are people who paid at pve specific levels saying that it is a shaky argument and dismissing it out of hand is rather odd.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 08:28 PM
Which is a fact that hasn't only affected the $250 crowd. Btw, I primarily backed for PVE too.

Xexist
04-17-2015, 08:28 PM
This was not a stretch goal, so the consensus makes sense.

From the KS Page: Note that we added 1 free booster draft a week for 1 year per account to the Dungeon Crawler, Raid Leader, Guild Master, and Collector tiers!

For the KS, it was successful. The initial benefit was more than reasonable when you consider what it would 'cost' a new player. It is easily 25,000 plat worth of value. This added 6 months is generous (additional 12,000 plat) , but it feels like a slight to other backers/players. The KS was great. However, Hex needs to more than the KS player base to survive. I would feel insulted by this great 'update' if I contributed at a lower tier or joined a little later as a paying customer.

Hmmm funny how time plays tricks on the mind. I remember it being a stretch goal, I guess I remembered wrong! Either way it did serve ist purpose because a LOT more tiers sold after they added the 1 year draft.

zadies
04-17-2015, 08:42 PM
HellFro it really doesn't matter what level you backed at when you fall into the categories of I get what everyone gets there is no real reason to compensate you as directly as the drafts. I'm sorry what you want isn't in the game yet, but really you didn't pay for it specifically, you can claim whatever you want but you can't provide direct correlation to what you backed at and wither or not pve is implemented.


I think CZE was a little too generous giving the bonus to the collector tier myself but it would be too much work not to.(depending on what kind of records they kept when the codes were generated it would be possible just take too long to really be worth while)

Instead of complaining about the compensation that the tiers that can provide a direct link between their backing and PvE perhaps you should think about what might be able to be done for the lower tiers once the PvE actually launched that actually has something to do with their tiers and PvE.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 08:57 PM
I'm not complaining. I haven't even said that I disagree with the decision. I'm jealous and that's my problem. But, to go with your argument the $250 PVE tiers have gotten what we've all gotten just as late as we had to wait. It's awesome that HexEnt is giving the bonus but they don't deserve more than anyone else.

Spectral garden is PVE specific too. King tier is where that reward started at. I backed as high as I could to get the PVE boost I could afford.

Again, not complaining. Just mentioning that us lower backers are waiting as patiently as the $250 group. I'm not asking for anything.

hex_colin
04-17-2015, 08:57 PM
It amuses me greatly that so many people thoroughly dissed the Collector Tier during the KS. All in on Pro Player. And then all in on Grand King (because many people just did it to get the Lifetime Draft Code). And then DC was big. And the finally Collector (which never sold out), but only because folks valued it more than RL and GM.

2 AA CMKs (and probably the Living Totems) and 6 months extra free drafts and folks are experiencing severe revisionist history...

It was almost no one's first choice. I'm really happy it worked out for the folks who did take the chance. :)

zadies
04-17-2015, 09:04 PM
My comment about the collector tier had nothing to do with the fact that it might be worth more then pro... only that it already got the niche item that was promised to it.

zadies
04-17-2015, 09:11 PM
I'm not complaining. I haven't even said that I disagree with the decision. I'm jealous and that's my problem. But, to go with your argument the $250 PVE tiers have gotten what we've all gotten just as late as we had to wait. It's awesome that HexEnt is giving the bonus but they don't deserve more than anyone else.


Ah but see the 250 tiers aren't compared to the other lower tiers in regards to late items you have to hold each of them to the standard of the pro tier which has been getting what it paid for since set 1 launched, the collector tier started to get what it paid for 8 months in, every single other 250 tier has not gotten what it paid for in the same time frame as the other two.

All the rest of the tiers are on equal footing when it comes to late/delayed items but there is disparity in timing for those 250 tiers... i'd be fine not getting free drafts after the year was up if they disabled the pro tier drafts and also stopped giving out collector cards until the rest of the 250 tier perks could be brought online.

hex_colin
04-17-2015, 09:15 PM
Also, and related, when I take stock of all of the free stuff that people have had access to over the past year (AA cards, sleeves, constructed and sealed tickets, packs, etc.) it blows my mind that folks would be feeling hard done to. :(

Xexist
04-17-2015, 09:18 PM
It amuses me greatly that so many people thoroughly dissed the Collector Tier during the KS. All in on Pro Player. And then all in on Grand King (because many people just did it to get the Lifetime Draft Code). And then DC was big. And the finally Collector (which never sold out), but only because folks valued it more than RL and GM.

2 AA CMKs (and probably the Living Totems) and 6 months extra free drafts and folks are experiencing severe revisionist history...

It was almost no one's first choice. I'm really happy it worked out for the folks who did take the chance. :)

The free drafts WERE my first choice, and pro player was gone, so in that sense, I didnt have a choice, but really though I backed GK because ALL the 250 tiers sounded so awesome and it was so hard to choose. It was one of those things like no matter what I picked I wouldnt be completely happy knowing that I was missing out on the other bonuses. GK was a no brainer for me. Like just about everyone else though, I regret not backing more :)

zadies
04-17-2015, 09:20 PM
I didn't touch the game for at least 3 months even after redeeming my free drafts because I don't give a wit about pvp other then to get a collection of a set... if sets were released on the 4 month schedule that would not have happened either... it is possible that cze had in mind that the 1 year free draft was going to cover a certain number of sets.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 09:20 PM
Um, no you don't. All the tiers were a gamble. PP was an obvious winner. Collector was as Colin just stated a big risk with a huge pay off. The other $250 tiers were weak until the 1 year free draft was added, under huge controversy I might add. It's great that the value was added with 6 extra months but don't try to frame it as if you're owed the extra boost and not the rest of us KS.

HellFro
04-17-2015, 09:24 PM
Also, and related, when I take stock of all of the free stuff that people have had access to over the past year (AA cards, sleeves, constructed and sealed tickets, packs, etc.) it blows my mind that folks would be feeling hard done to. :(

You're completely right. Which is why I can't even start to complain. But initial reaction is, they got extra free stuff for nothing, I didn't, hm...

zadies
04-17-2015, 09:26 PM
About a third of the dc tiers were sold before they added the 1 year free draft to them... and it's really up in the air if that tier is goign to pay off or not... but at the moment just with the gold exchange where it is it can keep up with the pro tier in terms of free drafts generated weekly if you acctually enjoy the arena.
People really do like to make revisionist history

theghost32
04-17-2015, 09:29 PM
i remember telling people during the kickstarter that i though collector was one of the best tiers because of the aas turns out i was right

hex_colin
04-17-2015, 09:31 PM
But initial reaction is, they got extra free stuff for nothing, I didn't, hm...

I'd have felt like that at some point in my life. You come to realize that someone is always getting more than you are. It's not worth worrying about. Best to focus on what you do have and the things you can control.

No matter what Cory did in this situation some constituency of users was going to complain - I know for sure he knew that because we talked about it a couple of weeks ago. The game is pretty healthy and getting more popular day-by-day. The draft extension isn't the perfect solution for everyone, but it does help everyone whether they believe it or not. Sure, there is inequality - welcome to real life...

Xexist
04-17-2015, 09:42 PM
i remember telling people during the kickstarter that i though collector was one of the best tiers because of the aas turns out i was right

To be honest, its not like we know how valuable the other tiers are yet.

PP is one that is easy to put an actual dollar amount on.

I would find it very amusing if after the dust settled PP turned out to be the least valuable. (as unlikely as that may be)

Xexist
04-17-2015, 09:47 PM
I'd have felt like that at some point in my life. You come to realize that someone is always getting more than you are. It's not worth worrying about. Best to focus on what you do have and the things you can control.

No matter what Cory did in this situation some constituency of users was going to complain - I know for sure he knew that because we talked about it a couple of weeks ago. The game is pretty healthy and getting more popular day-by-day. The draft extension isn't the perfect solution for everyone, but it does help everyone whether they believe it or not. Sure, there is inequality - welcome to real life...

I love you Colin. I really wish we could hang out sometime.
^(in not creepy way)

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 09:48 PM
To be honest, its not like we know how valuable the other tiers are yet.

PP is one that is easy to put an actual dollar amount on.

I would find it very amusing if after the dust settled PP turned out to be the least valuable. (as unlikely as that may be)
Quite improbable... If the PvE content is that popular that means the game has a big playerbase. If that is the case, PvP cards will still always be worth more than cards freely earned through PvE. There will never be a time where content is delivered so quickly that PvE players could not catch-up and were forced to purchase items to stay afloat.

zadies
04-17-2015, 09:50 PM
I'd have felt like that at some point in my life. You come to realize that someone is always getting more than you are. It's not worth worrying about. Best to focus on what you do have and the things you can control.

The question isn't if someone is getting more then you the question really is is someone exploiting you to make sure they get more then you.

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 09:55 PM
The question isn't if someone is getting more then you the question really is is someone exploiting you to make sure they get more then you.
If you are feeling oppressed, join a union.
It's done wonders for the US workforce....

Xexist
04-17-2015, 09:55 PM
Quite improbable... If the PvE content is that popular that means the game has a big playerbase. If that is the case, PvP cards will still always be worth more than cards freely earned through PvE. There will never be a time where content is delivered so quickly that PvE players could not catch-up and were forced to purchase items to stay afloat.

I guess I didnt just mean in the $ and plat sense. I am hoping the other tiers end up being valuable, in an 'invaluable' kinda way.

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 09:57 PM
I guess I didnt just mean in the $ and plat sense. I am hoping the other tiers end up being valuable, in an 'invaluable' kinda way.
I don't think the Guild Leader tier will ever feel that, but potentially Dungeon Crawlers and Raid Leaders.

Xexist
04-17-2015, 09:58 PM
I don't think the Guild Leader tier will ever feel that, but potentially Dungeon Crawlers and Raid Leaders.

Dont be a Negative Nico. Let this poor boy dream :)

zadies
04-17-2015, 09:59 PM
If you are feeling oppressed, join a union.
It's done wonders for the US workforce....

Nico I think you took that in the opposite context as I meant it really no one is exploiting anyone to get more in this particular case.

nicosharp
04-17-2015, 10:01 PM
Nico I think you took that in the opposite context as I meant it really no one is exploiting anyone to get more in this particular case.
I did. Good to know your meaning. Kind of hard to exploit anyone at this point. But I will enjoy the day I can charge for slots in my raiding party :)

ossuary
04-17-2015, 10:36 PM
Come on guys.

http://celebratemondays.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Neighbor.jpg

Xexist
04-17-2015, 10:50 PM
Come on guys.


Was totally looking for that img earlier :p

Fyren
04-17-2015, 11:06 PM
Come on guys.

I'd be lying so hard if said I didn't understand the pang of jealousy that comes with only having discovered this game after KS/Slacker Backer. I'd also be lying if I said some evil little part of me wasn't unhappy about the extension, just because of the nonlevel playing field it creates with the people who weren't there, so I understand kinda where the complainers are coming from.

But that's... Kickstarting. You back something untested, it bears fruit, you get rewards that are theoretically an excellent value for what you spent, y'know? That's basically the whole premise as I understand it.

I'm just going to have to ride the AH, drafts and giveaways that much harder.

magic_gazz
04-17-2015, 11:12 PM
This feels like a bad move.

I have read the thread and the people defending it do seem to be defending for the sake of defending. You guys need to realise that sometimes it is ok to find fault with things. Often people get called white knights on here and it is undeserved but we are getting pretty close to the line now.

Not sure who thought it was a good idea to reward a small percentage of players for seemingly no good reason.

There are many issues and I am not even sure I could list them off the top of my head. Here is a quick go.

(1) Giving out free drafts gives the impression that it is needed to keep the draft queues going. Yes drafts firing is a good thing, but if we are still having to give out free drafts a year down the line then the game is not healthy. This is my main concern.

(2) Non pro player tiers already got given a year of free drafts to make them more attractive. Giving them an extra 6 months of free drafts is a huge amount of compensation for missing features that they backed for. What about the value of cards that is being protected?

(3) What about the other people at lower tiers missing features? Why do they not get compensated are they less important? Does the amount of stuff they got seem comparable to what the $250 tiers got?

(4) We need to be removing mentions of kickstarter from the game, not bringing it up and giving them more. Kickstarter was great for funding the project but now new people are often put off when they see at as they feel they have missed out and/or cant compete with it. Now a new player will see this and wonder where their free drafts are and struggle when we try to explain cards having value and therefore not being able to give out free drafts.

(5) People that came after the kickstarter that have put in close to or more than $250. They kickstarters set up the shop, without them there might not be a game, most people are aware of this. The guys who turned up after though are the ones keeping the shop running. Where is the loyalty/rewards for them?

Yeah that's about it for now lol

katkillad
04-17-2015, 11:22 PM
People hand waving away players who are upset because "life isn't fair" is pretty silly.

CaravelBoomer
04-18-2015, 12:31 AM
I have to say i agree with gazz, I'm not thinking of overall fairness (hey you gambled $250, congrats you did good...I was happy enough getting in on Slacker Backer and the 12 month VIP deal) but the perception it gives to someone looking to try the game out.

New players are what is needed to grow this game as the straight and narrow is people quit games so need to be replaced at a faster rate than they quit in order for a game to grow.

Hex already has a ton against it in terms of growing (i.e. slow development, lawsuit which doesn't go to trial until 2016 so uncertain future, Powerful competitors who are developing all the time, Hearthstone just went mobile, and already very well established) so the last thing it needs is for a potential new customer to go "Oh I see, someone else's money is STILL worth more than mine 2 years later....I guess life isn't fair and I'll go and play a game where my money's worth the same as someone else's"

I was actually hoping when I saw the 6 month thing that HexEnt were going to announce that you could buy 6 months of drafts at a discounted rate, which I'd be all over but instead my reaction was "oh, ok". That's NOT the type of reaction you want from someone visiting your website for the 1st time to see what's up

Zomnivore
04-18-2015, 01:23 AM
I don't have a problem with it on the whole, but agree that it could be problematic to do more of this sort.

To me it seems like a strategy to get people back in and playing regularly because that mechanism isn't really in yet with the mmo portion the whole funding system is all in the pvp, an there are other competing products in that market, so its all kind of hard to say that its a bad deal for the game, for them to not try to draw people back in.

bleh I'm tired

in general I just think its an attempt to do something to revamp the kickstarters who're most invested and get them back in and spending, but if they feel tapped on the game then thats that, and its now a matter of figuring out where to get more money.

dogmod
04-18-2015, 01:55 AM
Does not speak well to the health of the game

Mokka
04-18-2015, 01:57 AM
This is a two-edged sword.

I love the fact that Cryptozoic cares about their userbase, and actually does something to ease the pain for the extra wait-time. However, it is to be expected that a lot of people who have been supporting the game just as long as the 250+ kickstarts, feel a tad left out. A line have to drawn somewhere, and in this case it makes sense to restrict the benefits to a smaller population of the playbase - my reasoning: many of the 250+ backers are stand-up citizens and are in my experience extremely kind, open and great at helping new players such as myself. By giving these guys extra there is a greater chance that they might let something slip through the cracks that might help us at the bottom. As soon as a game introduces a currency there will always be inaquality, which I think it totally fair given that they have made a bigger gamble. Life.


..also, as mentioned Drafts fires more often (even though that that will be with veterans in it - which might provide hardcore for new players). The only way I see having decreased the negative impact of this is by giving all backer a free draft, or something similar to remove the focus the gain of those who already gained a lot.

I believe the issue regarding new players lies in the mentioning of "Kickstarter" - so if a new player asks how, or why you have all those great cards. Try to avoid mentioning Kickstarter as that can be interpreted as they missed out of something and can't be part of the race :)

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 01:59 AM
LOL that's Louis CK so I'm guessing you're trying to make the opposite point of the picture.

Kramer
04-18-2015, 03:28 AM
I really do not understand what all the fuss is about. 1,907 kickstarters get $182 (less if one were to buy all entries packs on the AH) benefit in the game. Would you be equally upset if each of these players just got 2 CMK AA's? If you would not be upset about these players only receiving 2 cards then you shoud not be upset about this as those 2 cards would generate the same amount of platinum needed to get one draft a week for 26 weeks.

No doubt it is an advantage but these players did gamble $250 or more on a Kickstarter on an idea that this game would come to fruition which has allowed you the priviledge of playing this game that you would not otherwise have been able to do.

For those that contributed less during the KS, you had an option to spend more and chose not too. On the other hand, I do understand the point of view about those that were slacker backers wanting a higher tier and players that did not participate in the KS at all but have spent more than $250 to date but is it really something to get all worked up about as it is such a small percentage of the playerbase.

In theory, 1,907 players, probably less as some got more than one of these $250 tiers since the Pro Player and GK sold out early are getting an advantage. However it is less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the total number of players (as I do not know the actual percentage since I do not know how many active players Hex has) so in theory it really is not that big of a deal imo.

I just wish the players that feel slighted will realize that it benefits everyone as more drafts will fire and more packs will be available on the AH (probably for less plat so everyone will save more money).

poizonous
04-18-2015, 03:48 AM
In theory, 1,907 players, probably less as some got more than one of these $250 tiers since the Pro Player and GK sold out early are getting an advantage. However it is less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the total number of players (as I do not know the actual percentage since I do not know how many active players Hex has) so in theory it really is not that big of a deal imo.


You are claiming the game has 19,000 players??? If it did then we would not need to stimulate the tournament queues. I would go as low as saying that 1907 players is equivalent to almost 30% of the player base currently. I would like an official number to verify but that probably wont happen (but heres to hoping)

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 04:21 AM
You are claiming the game has 19,000 players??? If it did then we would not need to stimulate the tournament queues. I would go as low as saying that 1907 players is equivalent to almost 30% of the player base currently. I would like an official number to verify but that probably wont happen (but heres to hoping)

It is actually very likely that the game has over 20k registered accounts - we just don't know how many of them are active. We would need data on weekly unique logins to have a clear idea of how big the playerbase is, but I would guess the regular crowd is between 3-5000, with lots more coming in for event days.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:29 AM
I really do not understand what all the fuss is about. 1,907 kickstarters get $182 (less if one were to buy all entries packs on the AH) benefit in the game.


Did you do the math before making this comment?

That is a fair chunk of change to give out for free to a specific group who were lucky to be able to kickstart. Over $300k worth.

Lets stop acting like backing the game was some great skill people had. There were a ton of people that either (a) found out too late or (b) did not have the money during the window of time they knew about it that would have put in the same or more money.

Essentially the people that missed out on already having a ton of value given to them are being told they are second rate customers.

New players are told they cant have free drafts to protect the economy (something I believe in) yet they see the old players rolling in free stuff ontop of the value they already got.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 04:34 AM
Did you do the math before making this comment?

That is a fair chunk of change to give out for free to a specific group who were lucky to be able to kickstart. Over $300k worth.

Lets stop acting like backing the game was some great skill people had. There were a ton of people that either (a) found out too late or (b) did not have the money during the window of time they knew about it that would have put in the same or more money.

Essentially the people that missed out on already having a ton of value given to them are being told they are second rate customers.

New players are told they cant have free drafts to protect the economy (something I believe in) yet they see the old players rolling in free stuff ontop of the value they already got.

Chill out. These people paid $130 for a perk (more than buying a second king tier) and they don't have anything to show for it (GL/RL have nothing, DC is extremely limited.) Due to the nature of the draft codes, collectors get hit with some free months too, but that is collateral damage that can't be avoided. It also only makes up a very small amount of people, since it was an unpopular tier.

BKCshah
04-18-2015, 05:05 AM
36% of the extended drafts were for Collectors. To pretend that the majority of these tiers were bought for the original perks is a farce. The year of drafts is what got many people to finally pony up for these tiers. It added over $200 in familiar value. It was very successful marketing. To say that these backers have received nothing above a King player for their extra $130 is a reach.

Might as well include the numbers for the specific tiers:

Guild Master - 118
Raid Leader - 151
Collector - 719
Dungeon Crawler - 1000

To say that it is collateral damage for an unpopular tier is false. It could be corrected. It would be a ton of work. Basically, I see this as a major public relations mistake. I'm glad that they made the announcement public, so this conversation could be had. I don't see how they can change their minds after this announcement.

poizonous
04-18-2015, 05:06 AM
Yeah Xena i really should have stated "Active" player base

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 05:10 AM
Chill out. These people paid $130 for a perk (more than buying a second king tier) and they don't have anything to show for it (GL/RL have nothing, DC is extremely limited.) Due to the nature of the draft codes, collectors get hit with some free months too, but that is collateral damage that can't be avoided. It also only makes up a very small amount of people, since it was an unpopular tier.

They already got 1 year of free draft. They have more than enough value already.

What about the fact that a lot of these people have probably not had to put another cent into the game while non $250 tiers and newcomers might have put in more? Is their money worth less than these guys?

Like I said, kickstarters opened the shop, but its everyone else who keeps the lights on.

Also if it really is "just a small number of people" then why cater to them anyway? What makes those 1,907 players so special that they get taken care of while everyone else has to just wait for the features they want?

The worst part is it makes it look like we are struggling to get drafts to fire without giving out free ones and that does not paint a positive image for the game.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 05:12 AM
And for what it is worth I personally don't want anything for free, just incase people think its a case of why them and not me.

AdamAoE2
04-18-2015, 05:21 AM
While I understand their reasoning for wanting to do something like this, (To do right by their kickstarters, which is admirable), I think it's time Hex started to think itself more as a community of TCG players and less like a community of kickstarters. The game is picking up new players every day, and the more you cater to the original group of players the more everyone else will feel left out.

I feel a better way to have gone about doing this would have been to introduce a new community event, so that everybody could participate. Perhaps there is a temporary "Free Draft!" ticket on wheels of fate, or maybe the PvE Arena bosses have a small chance to drop a draft entry ticket as loot. Anything you can think of that will get others excited to be doing the things they've already been doing for awhile.

WWKnight
04-18-2015, 05:43 AM
While I understand their reasoning for wanting to do something like this, (To do right by their kickstarters, which is admirable), I think it's time Hex started to think itself more as a community of TCG players and less like a community of kickstarters. The game is picking up new players every day, and the more you cater to the original group of players the more everyone else will feel left out.

I feel a better way to have gone about doing this would have been to introduce a new community event, so that everybody could participate. Perhaps there is a temporary "Free Draft!" ticket on wheels of fate, or maybe the PvE Arena bosses have a small chance to drop a draft entry ticket as loot. Anything you can think of that will get others excited to be doing the things they've already been doing for awhile.

Smartest post in this thread.

Mahes
04-18-2015, 06:11 AM
While I understand their reasoning for wanting to do something like this, (To do right by their kickstarters, which is admirable), I think it's time Hex started to think itself more as a community of TCG players and less like a community of kickstarters. The game is picking up new players every day, and the more you cater to the original group of players the more everyone else will feel left out.

I feel a better way to have gone about doing this would have been to introduce a new community event, so that everybody could participate. Perhaps there is a temporary "Free Draft!" ticket on wheels of fate, or maybe the PvE Arena bosses have a small chance to drop a draft entry ticket as loot. Anything you can think of that will get others excited to be doing the things they've already been doing for awhile.

That sums it up nicely.

The reason they did it the way they did was due to the simplicity of the programming. They had to figure out what would work best that would not involve more work than they are already dealing with. They really are limited in what they are capable of doing in an adequate amount of time.

katkillad
04-18-2015, 07:24 AM
Cryptozoic isn't EA. With other games, we have gotten used to other companies dicking over their consumers in numerous ways. It's obvious that Cryptozoic in the past has shown many times they care about everyone who plays Hex, which is why some people are taking this personally. It's kind of like showing one of your kids more attention than the other.

MatWith1T
04-18-2015, 07:25 AM
I'm constantly surprised how a community as friendly and generous as this one is somehow continually outraged by every single thing Hex does. And because of that, I don't know of any method to effectively spur draft queues for six months that wouldn't cause someone to cry foul. So in that light, congrats to those who got some free drafts... Please use them and keep queues firing.

Sparrow
04-18-2015, 07:36 AM
I can see how people could be upset, but I expect CZE has things in the works that will benefit everyone. They're too smart at what they do to ignore all the players that didn't KS at a high enough level. It wouldn't surprise me if they ended up giving everyone in beta free weekly drafts for a period of time.

nicosharp
04-18-2015, 07:37 AM
While I understand their reasoning for wanting to do something like this, (To do right by their kickstarters, which is admirable), I think it's time Hex started to think itself more as a community of TCG players and less like a community of kickstarters. The game is picking up new players every day, and the more you cater to the original group of players the more everyone else will feel left out.

I feel a better way to have gone about doing this would have been to introduce a new community event, so that everybody could participate. Perhaps there is a temporary "Free Draft!" ticket on wheels of fate, or maybe the PvE Arena bosses have a small chance to drop a draft entry ticket as loot. Anything you can think of that will get others excited to be doing the things they've already been doing for awhile.

Awesome idea, but from an economic standpoint, what they did is much more intelligent.

Basically, folks that already spent $250 on the game and a year of time have already invested.

There are a large number of F2P now, and other folks that are going infinite off grind and $5-$10 of startup money. I don't think people with such a small impact on HEX Ent's bottomline need to be offered more rewards for playing right now.

Of course it's not really about the money individuals spent, it's about a specific reward not even getting to cover a full 3 sets of drafting, which many players hoped and anticipated.

There will be future free tournaments, and offerings, but this extension is not about that. With all the goodies that are supposedly coming to the game in the next 6+ months, everyone with an early start in Hex should be very happy they chose to jump in when they did. Regardless of what they had to work for.

Fyren
04-18-2015, 07:47 AM
Also, to all those claiming this offering to the KS backers is 'a statement on the health of the game:'

I would posit that a better indicator of the 'health of the game' is the economic activity that occurs within it, and it seems like things have picked up since the Frost Ring launched:

http://www.hexprice.com/generalstats

zadies
04-18-2015, 08:18 AM
While I understand their reasoning for wanting to do something like this, (To do right by their kickstarters, which is admirable), I think it's time Hex started to think itself more as a community of TCG players and less like a community of kickstarters. The game is picking up new players every day, and the more you cater to the original group of players the more everyone else will feel left out.


If they are experiencing less then 20k daily logins this group that was targeted is not a small group of players and has already invested in the game so is more likely then not going to invest more due to not wanting their initial investment to go to waste... also 1 draft weekly is definitely not enough to get a play-set with a 4 month set release window unless your extremely lucky.... hasn't been enough to get a full set 2 even with trading up to this point.

The game is picking up new players due to viral word of mouth advertising, having a large portion of the player base that is pysced for pve going around badmouthing the company due to feelings that they are being abandoned by the amount of time it is taking to do things is very very bad for them as they attempt to ramp up for a pve launch.(while the posting online has stoped there has not been a reversal of CZE is the most wonderful company in the world from dc backers who posted not just here but elsewhere about the arena fiasco.)

Xexist
04-18-2015, 08:34 AM
They already got 1 year of free draft. They have more than enough value already.

What about the fact that a lot of these people have probably not had to put another cent into the game while non $250 tiers and newcomers might have put in more? Is their money worth less than these guys?

Like I said, kickstarters opened the shop, but its everyone else who keeps the lights on.

Also if it really is "just a small number of people" then why cater to them anyway? What makes those 1,907 players so special that they get taken care of while everyone else has to just wait for the features they want?

The worst part is it makes it look like we are struggling to get drafts to fire without giving out free ones and that does not paint a positive image for the game.

Maybe I'm just a bad player, but I'm a GK, and have put in hundreds of dollars over my kickstarter, and still don't have either set completed (set 1 is close though). So don't just assume we haven't put in more money.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 10:29 AM
Awesome idea, but from an economic standpoint, what they did is much more intelligent.

Basically, folks that already spent $250 on the game and a year of time have already invested.

There are a large number of F2P now, and other folks that are going infinite off grind and $5-$10 of startup money. I don't think people with such a small impact on HEX Ent's bottomline need to be offered more rewards for playing right now.

Of course it's not really about the money individuals spent, it's about a specific reward not even getting to cover a full 3 sets of drafting, which many players hoped and anticipated.

There will be future free tournaments, and offerings, but this extension is not about that. With all the goodies that are supposedly coming to the game in the next 6+ months, everyone with an early start in Hex should be very happy they chose to jump in when they did. Regardless of what they had to work for.

Would have been smarter to go by how much people have actually spent then in that case. I've dumped much more money into this game than the price of most kick starter tiers. But only being a slacker backer I guess I am at the bottom of the pecking order regardless of how much money I spend.

There are many in this community who agree with pretty much anything Hex does. I am not one of them, and this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

zadies
04-18-2015, 10:39 AM
I am sorry you feel that way you got what you paid for other then the collector tier that is getting this bonus the kick starter backers at that level haven't.

And other then whining the people with complaints haven't even attempted to address the fact that a number of the individuals who backed at the pve levels did feel that the 1 year of drafts set an expectation as to when the perks that were specifically being paid for would be made available.

MatWith1T
04-18-2015, 10:45 AM
Would have been smarter to go by how much people have actually spent then in that case. I've dumped much more money into this game than the price of most kick starter tiers. But only being a slacker backer I guess I am at the bottom of the pecking order regardless of how much money I spend.

There are many in this community who agree with pretty much anything Hex does. I am not one of them, and this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If Hex were to give free prizes to people solely on the basis of who gave them the most money, how is that not an even greater argument of favouritism, with the added bonus of pay-to-win accusations?

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 10:49 AM
If Hex were to give free prizes to people solely on the basis of who gave them the most money, how is that not an even greater argument of favouritism, with the added bonus of pay-to-win accusations?

That also would exclude anyone who has paid for their tier and hasn't played much, or hasn't had a reason to pay extra yet because of all the rewards, etc etc. It also makes all the F2P players feel even worse, since it would be given out to far more people than this specific situation.

In short, giving stuff to anyone is going to piss someone else off, but these people are the ones who deserve it (by and large.)

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 11:13 AM
If Hex were to give free prizes to people solely on the basis of who gave them the most money, how is that not an even greater argument of favouritism, with the added bonus of pay-to-win accusations?

It is not "greater" nor does it add any pay to win. It is already based upon money spent, this is the definition of a kick starter tier.

zadies
04-18-2015, 11:21 AM
No because when you currently spend money on the game you get exactly what you pay for the kickstarter tiers that get this apology are people who actually need to be apologized to because they have SPECIFICALLY paid for something that has not been delivered.
You can say well I backed for reason xyz but you did not put money up SPECIFICALLY for an unreleased feature like the 250 ks tiers did.

nicosharp
04-18-2015, 11:41 AM
The update was not intended to make everyone happy. Which, is not the first time, and will not be the last time.

No one has to agree with the decisions the company makes. The way to show it is to stop supporting it with dollars.

I don't think the game is even at the point yet, or the decisions are so impacting yet to take those drastic measures out of personal principals not grounded in logic.

funktion
04-18-2015, 11:47 AM
Some people got something. If you are not one of those people you are not any more worse off than you were before.

ForgedSol
04-18-2015, 12:47 PM
I agree that non kickstarter and lower tiers should still be acknowledged. Doesn't have to be everyone gets 6 months, but scaled according to backing amount, or everyone gets one free. I like the idea of adding a low percentage change of getting a draft in the wheel of fate so everyone can get the possibility of getting one.

A lot of people were not even kickstarting the non pro player/collector tiers until the year of drafts was added. If actual kickstarters knew it was going to be 18 months instead of 12, there would definitely be more people that would have backed at those levels. At the time, the value of those levels for a lot of people was for the drafts alone.

fitzle
04-18-2015, 01:09 PM
It does seem rather.. odd.. to give such a nice perk to the kickstarter tiers that have been living their greatest benefit already. You really want to thank some groups for their patience Cory and crew should thanking the poor Dungeon Crawlers, Guild Masters, and Raid leader tiers. Those poor SOBs have seen barely anything yet and probably wont for 6 months to a year or more.

Heck, I originally backed at Champion tier but later bumped myself up to King tier in no small part because of Lotus Garden. They've not even been able to get out the Dragon's Blood starter deck and I'm not sure what's taking even that small reward so long to fulfilled.

Anyway, no sour grapes for the Pro Players and above, it's awfully nice of HEX to do this at all so good for them! Like I said, it just seems a rather odd choice in the big picture of all the kickstarter backers out there.

Svenn
04-18-2015, 01:13 PM
Heck, I originally backed at Champion tier but later bumped myself up to King tier in no small part because of Lotus Garden. They've not even been able to get out the Dragon's Blood starter deck and I'm not sure what's taking even that small reward so long to fulfilled.

The Dragon's Blood starter comes with an already foiled version of Uruunaz. They can't release this until that tech is in. That requires double backs to be implemented. Double backs are not as high of a priority as some of the other features. This is why Dragon's Blood starter deck isn't out yet.

fitzle
04-18-2015, 01:15 PM
The Dragon's Blood starter comes with an already foiled version of Uruunaz. They can't release this until that tech is in. That requires double backs to be implemented. Double backs are not as high of a priority as some of the other features. This is why Dragon's Blood starter deck isn't out yet.

Oh I see, well that's going to be a good long while then.

zadies
04-18-2015, 01:17 PM
It does seem rather.. odd.. to give such a nice perk to the kickstarter tiers that have been living their greatest benefit already. You really want to thank some groups for their patience Cory and crew should thanking the poor Dungeon Crawlers, Guild Masters, and Raid leader tiers. Those poor SOBs have seen barely anything yet and probably wont for 6 months to a year or more.

The benefit given went to those groups in addition to the collector tier they were the only ones effected.

fitzle
04-18-2015, 01:21 PM
The benefit given went to those groups in addition to the collector tier they were the only ones effected.

Oh your right, I had to go back and look at those tiers to see that they get free drafts for a year. Well then scratch my complaints, I don't particularly mind about my King. I felt real bad for those other guys. Guess they don't need my pity as much as I thought. :o

Svenn
04-18-2015, 01:22 PM
The benefit given went to those groups in addition to the collector tier they were the only ones effected.

Yeah, the people benefiting from this are Guild Master, Raid Leader, Dungeon Crawler, and Collector. These are the only people affected.

KingGabriel
04-18-2015, 02:57 PM
Yeah, the people benefiting from this are Guild Master, Raid Leader, Dungeon Crawler, and Collector. These are the only people affected.
Unless you got the draft code separately e.g. Xenavire

Banquetto
04-18-2015, 03:12 PM
Serious question: I know that for a lot of people, it's very important that Hex has a functioning economy and that cards have real value. How should they maintain confidence in the value of cards if Cryptozoic are willing to dump ~200,000 free packs into circulation like this? Surely this is the equivalent of a government just printing money, it will devalue everyone's existing wealth?

poizonous
04-18-2015, 03:21 PM
Serious question: I know that for a lot of people, it's very important that Hex has a functioning economy and that cards have real value. How should they maintain confidence in the value of cards if Cryptozoic are willing to dump ~200,000 free packs into circulation like this? Surely this is the equivalent of a government just printing money, it will devalue everyone's existing wealth?

You're correct but no one will admit it, 6 more months of free drafts just devalues all the cards

Gwaer
04-18-2015, 03:23 PM
It is similar, however they aren't adding anything new here, they're extending a program that already exists. Card/pack prices are stable under this current regime, I doubt they'll destabilize because there are 6 more months coming. Also, set3 is the last set that kickstarters are getting free packs for. So as long as this doesn't happen again, and push free drafts through future sets you can already say that set 3 was going to be borked by the KS.

Hopefully in 6 months time we can have necessary features to onboard new players into the pvp events. The 100k tournament, ladders, short term goals, and rewards for those goals, perhaps a UI rework of the tournament area to make it more accessible and so on. Once new players can reliably and easily get into drafts and participation begins going up then we won't need this crutch to keep on demand queues firing regularly.

TOOT
04-18-2015, 03:25 PM
Some people got something. If you are not one of those people you are not any more worse off than you were before.


Serious question: I know that for a lot of people, it's very important that Hex has a functioning economy and that cards have real value. How should they maintain confidence in the value of cards if Cryptozoic are willing to dump ~200,000 free packs into circulation like this? Surely this is the equivalent of a government just printing money, it will devalue everyone's existing wealth?

There is your answer funktion.

It hurts people by devaluing what people have spent money on. If I chose to spend money on this game with the expectation that cards would hold a reasonable amount of value and they do not, then someone is effected. A non KS backer who has bought everything at retail price should have an even worse taste in their mouth than other KS backers that weren't in these tiers with 6 months added.

Hypothetically, if Hex decided to give everyone a playset of Set 1 then my own playset is worth WAY less in the secondary market than it would be worth if they didn't do that. Obviously this is an extreme example, but what happened is somewhere between 0 stuff added to the market and this extreme example, so it is a non-zero factor.

Obviously someone would be an idiot to assume 0 free stuff would enter the market via some kind of avenue (test tournaments, draft bugs, etc) but every time something like this happens, it has an adverse effect on the expectation that some people have that the stuff they bought would be worth X% relative to what they had spent.

If I knew a year ago how much free product has been added to the market as of today, I would have invested way less than I did in the game. Some people care more about this than others, but there is still a subset that is absolutely correct in being unhappy about it.

Svenn
04-18-2015, 04:05 PM
If I knew a year ago how much free product has been added to the market as of today, I would have invested way less than I did in the game. Some people care more about this than others, but there is still a subset that is absolutely correct in being unhappy about it.

While I can't say I'm super happy with how much free stuff has been added to the game... most things are still holding value fairly well. Packs are at a good price, good individual cards are at good prices, AAs have a ton of value.

MatWith1T
04-18-2015, 04:14 PM
It's odd how there was no devaluation outrage only a week ago when Hex mailed out free pack codes to every email address it had.

zadies
04-18-2015, 04:20 PM
The free drafts are currently the status quo when they fell off you would expect to see an increase in prices on the ah... it's not like they added drafts to people who weren't already getting them free.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:21 PM
The Dragon's Blood starter comes with an already foiled version of Uruunaz. They can't release this until that tech is in. That requires double backs to be implemented. Double backs are not as high of a priority as some of the other features. This is why Dragon's Blood starter deck isn't out yet.

I think this is the point some people are trying to make.

$250 tiers are getting 6 months of draft, the excuse being they have missed on on some stuff they backed for.

Other people missing out on stuff are getting nothing.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:25 PM
Serious question: I know that for a lot of people, it's very important that Hex has a functioning economy and that cards have real value. How should they maintain confidence in the value of cards if Cryptozoic are willing to dump ~200,000 free packs into circulation like this? Surely this is the equivalent of a government just printing money, it will devalue everyone's existing wealth?


You're correct but no one will admit it, 6 more months of free drafts just devalues all the cards


It is similar, however they aren't adding anything new here, they're extending a program that already exists. Card/pack prices are stable under this current regime, I doubt they'll destabilize because there are 6 more months coming. Also, set3 is the last set that kickstarters are getting free packs for. So as long as this doesn't happen again, and push free drafts through future sets you can already say that set 3 was going to be borked by the KS.

Hopefully in 6 months time we can have necessary features to onboard new players into the pvp events. The 100k tournament, ladders, short term goals, and rewards for those goals, perhaps a UI rework of the tournament area to make it more accessible and so on. Once new players can reliably and easily get into drafts and participation begins going up then we won't need this crutch to keep on demand queues firing regularly.

See this is just being dishonest. They are not adding anything? Really?

They adding packs and giving people entry into draft that they would otherwise have to pay for. Do they have such little confidence that any of those people would pay to do draft so they have to give them free?

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 04:25 PM
I think this is the point some people are trying to make.

$250 tiers are getting 6 months of draft, the excuse being they have missed on on some stuff they backed for.

Other people missing out on stuff are getting nothing.

They are missing out on something exclusive to them (barring the even higher tiers who have the completed parts already alongside lifetime drafting.) No-one King or below has a unique perk that they haven't gotten. It is really very simple.

TOOT
04-18-2015, 04:28 PM
It's odd how there was no devaluation outrage only a week ago when Hex mailed out free pack codes to every email address it had.

Unfortunately you get labeled as a troll or have 3 other people clamoring that you're crazy the moment you disagree with any decision made. It's not even worth posting about. I was merely addressing funktion's post.

Bringing up the devaluation every single time something like the free packs, or test server tournies come about is a waste of time. It obviously isn't going to change anything so why do it with how quickly people will jump to argue that you're being a negative nancy about the game.

poizonous
04-18-2015, 04:29 PM
Tons of Kickstarters even fail to launch after taking your money. They dont compensate, it is just reality. I dont think anyone needs more "Free" stuff because Hex is behind schedule. I would feel the same way if i was benefiting from this 6 extra months.

At least Hex actually launched and is looking bright for the future, if people are unhappy it is taking so long then they are just going to have to suck it up. I am not asking for the same compensation, i am just wanting there to be zero additional compensation, because none is needed. Nice Gestures dont have to Equiv-elate to 180 bucks additional to people who already got way more than they spent for

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:30 PM
It's odd how there was no devaluation outrage only a week ago when Hex mailed out free pack codes to every email address it had.

If everyone gets a free pack it actually does devalue everyones collection. You are right, people should have complained.

Its not quite the same as a subset of players being given what totals over $300,000 worth of benefits though.


The free drafts are currently the status quo when they fell off you would expect to see an increase in prices on the ah... it's not like they added drafts to people who weren't already getting them free.

This is not even logic. They are already getting free drafts so keeping the drafting for them free is fine?

It reduces the amount of money they need to further spend on the game.

Come on guys, you all need to stop defending this like it is a good thing, it is not. Right now people are coming up with some pretty terrible defence just to keep defending it.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:31 PM
They are missing out on something exclusive to them (barring the even higher tiers who have the completed parts already alongside lifetime drafting.) No-one King or below has a unique perk that they haven't gotten. It is really very simple.

They have been given way more than the $250 they spent. They don't need more.

It is that simple.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:33 PM
Unfortunately you get labeled as a troll or have 3 other people clamoring that you're crazy the moment you disagree with any decision made. It's not even worth posting about. I was merely addressing funktion's post.

Bringing up the devaluation every single time something like the free packs, or test server tournies come about is a waste of time. It obviously isn't going to change anything so why do it with how quickly people will jump to argue that you're being a negative nancy about the game.

Exactly.

I am not a fan of all the free stuff given out, even though I have received some. I would prefer nothing free for anyone.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 04:36 PM
They have been given way more than the $250 they spent. They don't need more.

It is that simple.

Everyone in the KS got more than they spent. These specific people have not gotten any of the content they payed an extra $130 for, and the added year perk was obviously always intended to span more than 2 sets. Your arguments are terrible.

You understand the reason, you just don't like it. No need to make a scene over it.

zadies
04-18-2015, 04:38 PM
Extending an existing program that has not expired is not the same as adding a completely new program the card values are holding steady currently with the free drafts, all that one would expect to really happen when they expired was that card values would increase this and increasing/decreasing value are BOTH not maintaining value just one is more favorable then the other if you already own something.

Given they backed a pve tier there is no guarantee at all they would log in without the free drafts with the lack of their SPECIFICALLY paid for backer rewards and content they can point to not actually being in the game.

Also due to not getting that reward cause a public relations nightmare through various means. They already had one fiasco with the miss communication about the dc and the arena release they don't need another fiasco with people taking the argument that no one has really tried to debunk other then using as much hand-waving away as others are complaining the defenders are using.

And to your other point magic about the other tiers getting nothing. CZE could easily do a number of PvE related things when the core campaign launches.

All your really doing is complaining about something that can't be changed without a huge scandal and not really suggesting what should be done to possibly compensate the lower tiers that actually has something to do with their literal tier.

Also while others address your concerns you really don't make any effort at all to address their arguments which just makes it look like your throwing a temper tantrum. You get labeled as a troll when you repeat the same stance again and again without addressing what others are saying.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 04:44 PM
You guys are becoming a joke. You should be given "HEX Public Relations" undertitles.

Im not going to bother to post any more about this, the flow of the thread is clear. Person makes unhappy comment, one of the same 5 or so people will jump in and defend. There are people who will not even bother posting because they know they will get shot down.


As long as those 2,000 customers and the forum police are happy, screw every one else right?

zadies
04-18-2015, 04:46 PM
This is not even logic. They are already getting free drafts so keeping the drafting for them free is fine?

It reduces the amount of money they need to further spend on the game.

Come on guys, you all need to stop defending this like it is a good thing, it is not. Right now people are coming up with some pretty terrible defence just to keep defending it.

Actually it was logic you just don't like it... extending the free drafts on less then 2000 people who may or may not have any interest in spending money on pvp more then likely causes more money to be spent because those 2000 people are incredibly unlikely to be drafting just with themselves and more then likely going to cause drafts to fire with additional people that may not have fired had those drafts not been there.

Shivdaddy
04-18-2015, 04:46 PM
Everyone in the KS got more than they spent. These specific people have not gotten any of the content they payed an extra $130 for, and the added year perk was obviously always intended to span more than 2 sets. Your arguments are terrible.

You understand the reason, you just don't like it. No need to make a scene over it.


Please stop saying things like this. People went King for the Lotus Garden. The free year of drafts that the $250 guys already got cover that $130.

zadies
04-18-2015, 04:48 PM
We don't know if cze is going to do anything with it when hey implement the lotus garden and really no one other then me has made any suggestions about it given it is not implemented they can't really do anything in regards to the fact you don't have it yet.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 04:50 PM
Please stop saying things like this. People went King for the Lotus Garden. The free year of drafts that the $250 guys already got cover that $130.

All I have to say is - so what? These people backed for something that isn't available to them, even now. Even if they used every single draft in that time, they still haven't been able to use the perks they paid for. And as it stands, even with the year of free drafts, they would still have been better off buying 2x King for value based on what is available in the game right now. Only the collectors got off easy (since pro was a gimme anyway), the rest have been severely shafted up to this point.

Or do we want to whip out the calculators and see exactly how much more they could have gotten with that $130?

Shivdaddy
04-18-2015, 04:59 PM
All I have to say is - so what? These people backed for something that isn't available to them, even now. Even if they used every single draft in that time, they still haven't been able to use the perks they paid for. And as it stands, even with the year of free drafts, they would still have been better off buying 2x King for value based on what is available in the game right now. Only the collectors got off easy (since pro was a gimme anyway), the rest have been severely shafted up to this point.

Or do we want to whip out the calculators and see exactly how much more they could have gotten with that $130?

All I am saying is that it should be prorated to all tiers not just the $250 tier. Everyone is waiting for stuff, not just Raid leader and friends.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 05:04 PM
All I am saying is that it should be prorated to all tiers not just the $250 tier. Everyone is waiting for stuff, not just Raid leader and friends.

But not everyone paid a LOT extra with zero payoff. Even the king tiers have the bulk of their exclusive non-PvE stuff already (we have all the AA's, all the sleeves, all the boosters except for the set 3 ones, and the only PvP related item really held up is the Dragons Blood deck.)

Kings did not pay $130 extra for anything. And just look at RL - the only boosts they have over king is the perk, a handful of stretch goal boosters, a sleeve, and the year of drafts. Even with the drafts for a year they barely break even for the extra $130 - with the extra 6 months they are ahead a little, but still essentially twiddling their thumbs.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 05:07 PM
Everyone who backed is still waiting on things that were promised. But a certain subset of players were cordially thanked for their patience and support and given free swag. This is what leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 05:10 PM
Everyone who backed is still waiting on things that were promised. But a certain subset of players were cordially thanked for their patience and support and given free swag. This is what leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

And those are the players being screwed over substantially more than everyone else. But I see missing out on free stuff robs people of any sympathy or compassion, huh.

zadies
04-18-2015, 05:13 PM
Oh they aren't missing out on free stuff there is a bunch of stuff given out for free from the higher level backers that they are quite happy to take advantage of.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 05:18 PM
And those are the players being screwed over substantially more than everyone else. But I see missing out on free stuff robs people of any sympathy or compassion, huh.

I'm not sure if anyone is being screwed over exactly, but surely they could have found a better system for deciding which players to reward, and which to snub.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 05:21 PM
I'm not sure if anyone is being screwed over exactly, but surely they could have found a better system for deciding which players to reward, and which to snub.

You say that, but have you really thought about it? Do you think they just pulled it out of a hat or something? This is the solution they came up with after a lot of thought. Maybe they considered doing in-game events, but that would delay the very features they need to get out for those backers. They could give a blanket apology, but there would still be inequality. I mean, really, without breaking any KS promises or adding development time, is there any other solution that is feasible, fair, and wouldn't either be inadequate, or worse, destroy the economy?

I highly doubt it.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 05:39 PM
You say that, but have you really thought about it? Do you think they just pulled it out of a hat or something? This is the solution they came up with after a lot of thought. Maybe they considered doing in-game events, but that would delay the very features they need to get out for those backers. They could give a blanket apology, but there would still be inequality. I mean, really, without breaking any KS promises or adding development time, is there any other solution that is feasible, fair, and wouldn't either be inadequate, or worse, destroy the economy?

I highly doubt it.

Solution to what exactly?

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 05:43 PM
Solution to what exactly?

To backers being upset about delays - specifically those who have tiers that relate to unreleased content. If you want to broaden it we could potentially include all KS backers, but really, the only ones in a situation where they may have paid for a content specific perk that is currently useless are GL and RL (and to a lesser extent, DC.)

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 05:52 PM
To backers being upset about delays - specifically those who have tiers that relate to unreleased content. If you want to broaden it we could potentially include all KS backers, but really, the only ones in a situation where they may have paid for a content specific perk that is currently useless are GL and RL (and to a lesser extent, DC.)

I never thought it was a problem that could be solved by anything other than patience and developing content. This entire thing is unneeded.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 05:56 PM
I never thought it was a problem that could be solved by anything other than patience and developing content. This entire thing is unneeded.

Obviously the devs think differently. And considering all the complaining that was going on by those tier players, something had to be done. (Also, my opinion on all the complaining is well known by now, and I am proven right in that HexEnt never intentionally screws anyone. I hope this just goes to show that people feeling like they have the short end of the stick should just be patient and calm, since it tends to work out better than anyone could expect.)

Sparrow
04-18-2015, 06:03 PM
Solution to what exactly?
The problem being solved is right in Cory's message: Only 20,000 drafts have fired (okay, he said over 20,000 but that's probably about what the total is). That's a fraction of the total # of free drafts that could have potentially fired and time is running out on the free drafting. I think there's a real fear that once the free drafts stop, the draft queue is going to dry up. Their solution to offer more free drafts staves off that potential disaster and buys them six months to work on more attractive features that will bring more players in.

While they probably should have been more inclusive with this fix, I think something more inclusive is coming. This obviously wasn't a deeply thought out solution, but a quick Band-Aid. I expect to see something more substantial in the next month or so.

bootlace
04-18-2015, 06:05 PM
I cant be the only whos really sick of this back and forth bickering. Every other thread these days seems to be an argument over who should get what, which feature should be worked over which, and of course the same rehashed speculation based on information thats nearly two years old by the same dwindling cast of 'good guys' vs 'bad guys'. I dont think I can take another 6 months of this.

And you know what? Its mostly HexEnt's fault for not properly managing this situation. People who've stuck around this long are understanding of the delays - but that doesnt mean you can go months on end without giving a single glimpse of whats going on and not trying to do anything to keep people interested and excited for what will come in the future.

Yea the teams busy and it takes time to provide updates but its mere breadcrumbs Im asking for here. Some fuzzy picture of a concept art for an upcoming dungeon, half of a text of an upcoming card, a list of names that were considered for some dragons we've seen...heck Id even settle for a Vine of some of the staff goofing around just to know they're alive and well and havent been forced by Cory to sell their kidneys to keep the lights on. Few months ago before Arena we were in the same situation, would it have killed to spoil a few more equipment in the many weeks leading up to it. Now you mention some major content patch is being worked on but we have no idea what that is and whether the current ETA is 6 days, 6 weeks, or 6 months. How are we suppose to evangelize/promote this game for you when you're being so secretive. Things change and things get delayed, most of us here are very understanding as long as its properly and honestly communicated, hope thats not whats holding you guys back so much.

I really believe you can do a better job in communicating with us, this community deserves it and desperately needs it. Just my own 2c.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 06:07 PM
Obviously the devs think differently. And considering all the complaining that was going on by those tier players. something had to be done. (Also, my opinion on all the complaining is well known by now, and I am proven right in that HexEnt never intentionally screws anyone. I hope this just goes to show that people feeling like they have the short end of the stick should just be patient and calm, since it tends to work out better than anyone could expect.)

The devs think differently? Oh wow I thought they accidentally did this.

Anyways, this "solution" leaves out everyone else who is equally waiting on different things in Hex. Who is not still waiting on things which are the reason they backed Hex?

Banquetto
04-18-2015, 06:13 PM
It's odd how there was no devaluation outrage only a week ago when Hex mailed out free pack codes to every email address it had.

That wasn't a very good idea. However I suspect the lack of outrage is because the devaluation was balanced against every single player getting an equal amount of free stuff, making it neutral for them. The only people hurt are the ones who aren't actually playing yet but might in the future. And they're not here to complain. :)

zadies
04-18-2015, 06:13 PM
There is a difference between half the freaking game missing which is the pve and the side content that is missing from pvp.

Also as stated previously the only kick starter tiers that are being apologized to are the ones that put their money where their mouth is when the kickstarter was going on in regards to the pve content.

It's easy to get in a jealous rage and say I backed for that reason to and want something and not really have any proof to the claim.

Also pick something that was actual in your tier to buff instead of saying but I want what they have when it was already part of their tier.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 06:16 PM
The devs think differently? Oh wow I thought they accidentally did this.

Anyways, this "solution" leaves out everyone else who is equally waiting on different things in Hex. Who is not still waiting on things which are the reason they backed Hex?

Again, not everyone who is waiting paid an equal amount, nor did they pay more for a specific thing that they DO NOT HAVE YET.

You keep acting like the KS tiers are equal because we all have to wait - well guess what, they are not. There are 5 tiers that were apart, and were meant to be mostly equal, and aren't even close - not because of the value of what they give, but because those things simply haven't been given to some, while others have gotten theirs already.

You may not want to accept it, but that is the reality - King and below, and Grand King and above are not being short-changed anywhere near as badly by these extended wait times.

Sparrow
04-18-2015, 06:26 PM
You keep acting like the KS tiers are equal because we all have to wait - well guess what, they are not. There are 5 tiers that were apart, and were meant to be mostly equal, and aren't even close - not because of the value of what they give, but because those things simply haven't been given to some, while others have gotten theirs already.
Personally, I think it is about time to think of all backers as equal. There was a time when I think the higher level backers had earned the right to act with a degree of entitlement, but as each month passes, that expression of entitlement is becoming uglier and uglier. I'm about at the point where I think that equality should be spread beyond backers in general to anyone that's spent money on the game.

That doesn't change the fact, however, that this six month extension isn't about smoothing things over for backers, but is geared toward preventing the draft queues from completely drying up once all those 1 yr drafts end.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 06:28 PM
Personally, I think it is about time to think of all backers as equal. There was a time when I think the higher level backers had earned the right to act with a degree of entitlement, but as each month passes, that expression of entitlement is becoming uglier and uglier. I'm about at the point where I think that equality should be spread beyond backers in general to anyone that's spent money on the game.

I don't disagree, in theory, but when something has been paid for (especially when it is double the amount of the tier below it) and hasn't been delivered, exceptions need to be made.

I hope this is the only time anything like this is needed, but it was very clearly needed.

dogmod
04-18-2015, 06:35 PM
I don't disagree, in theory, but when something has been paid for (especially when it is double the amount of the tier below it) and hasn't been delivered, exceptions need to be made.

I hope this is the only time anything like this is needed, but it was very clearly needed.


It should be obvious from the discussion that there is nothing "clear" about it. This is CZE both trying to keep their whales interested in the game and at the same time trying to keep their game appearing healthy with drafts firing for people. The fact that they felt the need to do this makes me concerned that they are not close to delivering on Set 3 or other new content or at least seem not to be confident in doing so soon.

Sparrow
04-18-2015, 06:36 PM
I don't disagree, in theory, but when something has been paid for (especially when it is double the amount of the tier below it) and hasn't been delivered, exceptions need to be made.

I hope this is the only time anything like this is needed, but it was very clearly needed.
I'm by no means against the extension. I think it's badly needed given development delays. And while it would have been nice to have given it to everyone, I know that's unrealistic. I know it's hard (believe me), but this is one of those times when patience is called for. I'm sure once they've fully thought it through, they'll come up with something that everyone will benefit from.

But in the meantime, it's important that the people that are unhappy express it (constructively). That's the only way Hex will know it has to do better.

Drake6k
04-18-2015, 07:09 PM
Instead of just extending the current free drafts another 6 months, what if they had done contests to win 6 months of free drafts? Maybe... even draft tournament contests? More people draft so they can win even more drafts. I think the new players and <$250 backers need some more excitement in their HEX lives. You can hand it out or you can turn it into a promotion.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 07:10 PM
Again, not everyone who is waiting paid an equal amount, nor did they pay more for a specific thing that they DO NOT HAVE YET.

You keep acting like the KS tiers are equal because we all have to wait - well guess what, they are not. There are 5 tiers that were apart, and were meant to be mostly equal, and aren't even close - not because of the value of what they give, but because those things simply haven't been given to some, while others have gotten theirs already.

You may not want to accept it, but that is the reality - King and below, and Grand King and above are not being short-changed anywhere near as badly by these extended wait times.

The real reality is the one where you take the blinders off and realize that not all promises are tied to kick starter tiers at all. The reality of the massive features promised to ALL backers, that we do not have yet. Everything on that kick starter page that was NOT tied to a tier, but is still yet undelivered. It does not matter what tier you were to be promised raids, double backs, tablet support, etc. The main reason people were backing the game was the game itself, not the extras in their tier.

This is why I say everyone is waiting. The basic promises to ALL kick starter backers have not yet been delivered, but there is some reason this subset gets "bought off" or "rewarded" or whatever you would call it. Because their little perks haven't been delivered, while the game itself is yet to be delivered as promised to everyone.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 07:13 PM
The real reality is the one where you take the blinders off and realize that not all promises are tied to kick starter tiers at all. The reality of the massive features promised to ALL backers, that we do not have yet. Everything on that kick starter page that was NOT tied to a tier, but is still yet undelivered. It does not matter what tier you were to be promised raids, double backs, tablet support, etc. The main reason people were backing the game was the game itself, not the extras in their tier.

This is why I say everyone is waiting. The basic promises to ALL kick starter backers have not yet been delivered, but there is some reason this subset gets "bought off" or "rewarded" or whatever you would call it. Because their little perks haven't been delivered, while the game itself is yet to be delivered as promised to everyone.

Feign ignorance all you want, but that $130 does matter here, and that is why they are getting an extension. Those tiers aren't the only ones waiting, but the ARE the only ones that paid a premium and are seeing nothing for it yet.

nicosharp
04-18-2015, 07:20 PM
This is one time, I hope HEX / Phenteo doesn't feel like he needs to respond to the community. The backlash is pathetic at this point.

I understand the logic from both sides. No one "Deserves" anything. I've made a lot of posts already on this subject. I feel they have all been relevant.

You can only know what you know when you sit on the sidelines. Unless you work for HEX ENT., you will not know the future from their perspective. Again, support the game with your time and your dollars. If something kills that for you now, you gotta leave, at least for a little while, to clear your palette.

None of this is going to matter in 2 years. If the game is a failure, it will burn by then. If its a success, we will all feel like bumbling idiots for these kind of doom and gloom posts on decisions that hardly change anything.

TOOT
04-18-2015, 07:20 PM
Why are GM, RL, and DC backers being given PVP stuff anyway? Aren't these people, by definition more interested in the PVE side of the game?

Why wouldn't they all get an extra Lotus Garden or something that they'll actually want?

And I'll love to hear who argues that it will devalue them, yet that same argument is apparently invalid for all the extra draft tickets and PVP cards coming from those that will be dispersed.

Gwaer
04-18-2015, 07:27 PM
Instead of just extending the current free drafts another 6 months, what if they had done contests to win 6 months of free drafts? Maybe... even draft tournament contests? More people draft so they can win even more drafts. I think the new players and <$250 backers need some more excitement in their HEX lives. You can hand it out or you can turn it into a promotion.

This is another great idea, of which I have seen many, that is constrained by development time. Extending a current reward is a simple matter that can be done easily and instantly with no dev overhead. Creating random rewards that provide this benefit? Not so much.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 07:30 PM
Why are GM, RL, and DC backers being given PVP stuff anyway? Aren't these people, by definition more interested in the PVE side of the game?

Why wouldn't they all get an extra Lotus Garden or something that they'll actually want?

And I'll love to hear who argues that it will devalue them, yet that same argument is apparently invalid for all the extra draft tickets and PVP cards coming from those that will be dispersed.

There is a difference though - drafts are a common item (tickets). The gardens were KS only. Not to mention drafts are ready now and gardens are not.

As it is, drafts were diven due to the value disparity (in order to incentivise buying of tiers.) If the drafts suddenly end now, and pro continues to get drafts, those tiers will simply be left behind - whether it is for weeks, months, or (ugh) years, any amount of time where one perk is active and another isn't is just making one perk that much better or worse. The drafts aren't all being used as it is, so it is merely an offer of more value that is up to the individual to cash in on.

Sparrow
04-18-2015, 07:34 PM
Instead of just extending the current free drafts another 6 months, what if they had done contests to win 6 months of free drafts? Maybe... even draft tournament contests? More people draft so they can win even more drafts. I think the new players and <$250 backers need some more excitement in their HEX lives. You can hand it out or you can turn it into a promotion.
I like that. Or even just a lottery would have been fine.

Another possibility is they could offer to sell six month draft packages to everyone, rather than just giving away $200+ worth of merchandise each to a specific subset of players. For example, each player that's not getting the extension could for $100 buy six months of weekly drafts. or 3 months for $50.

This wasn't a very deeply thought out solution, but more like an "oh, s---, free drafts are almost up and the draft queues are going to grind to a halt, quick give away some more!" kinda thing.

zadies
04-18-2015, 07:34 PM
I disagree with you there xen... but then I was also arguing that when pve is released all tiers with pve only items should just have the cards doubled... perhaps not the equipment since one person only ever needs one of each equipment but all of the cards. If they just gave an extra lotus garden to the 250 tiers then the king tiers would actually have reason to be upset as well...

The thing is TOOT that giving a garden is great once they are implemented but I don't think they would be doing 6 months of drafts if they expected to have the pve experience ready in the next 6 months... if it was ready 2 months from now most of the 250 backers would be happy just to wait the 2 months and get everything but given this announcement that seriously doesn't seem likely.

Acutally the solution was probably well thought out....
if you agree that more drafts are needed
then CZE doing it as a stunt to make sure that a portion of the population that has the most reason to be unhappy that already had free drafts to begin with was an obvious outlet and could do it as an apology at the same time to keep that subset of the population quite for another 6 months.

The likelihood that this discussion will last 6 months vs the probability of the pve 250 backers continuing to post about how CZE has failed them... there really is no comparison.

As soon as more sets were released by cze for the pvp without an more progress on pve would have created a different issue that this resolves.

Also they are giving pvp players a chance to win something 100k is alot more then this giveaway to kickstarters is.

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 07:42 PM
I know I said I was done, but here is a question for the defenders of this.

If in 6 months time we have still got nowhere with the game other than the release of set 3, should people be given more free drafts?

Is it still just for those special souls who spent a whole $130 extra (a $130 that they have more than been paid back in value).?

zadies
04-18-2015, 07:44 PM
Magic if 6 more months pass and the only thing we have is set 3 we have much larger questions to worry about because the game will likely be dead at that point.

israel.kendall
04-18-2015, 07:44 PM
Feign ignorance all you want, but that $130 does matter here, and that is why they are getting an extension. Those tiers aren't the only ones waiting, but the ARE the only ones that paid a premium and are seeing nothing for it yet.

You are connecting a persons motivations for backing Hex to the contents tied to their respective kickstarter tiers. Focusing on small promises while ignoring the large ones. It is a rather convenient way to arrange the facts, to say the least. A $130 promise vs a $2 million promise....

magic_gazz
04-18-2015, 07:44 PM
Also what if this moves makes players who feel it was wrong draft less?

If those 2,000 players get a free draft a week, what if over 2,000 other players start drafting less, partly because of boreom with the set and partly because their customer loyalty was ignored?

ForgedSol
04-18-2015, 07:48 PM
Oh it absolutely feels like a way to keep drafts firing, which is fine as a goal because draft and arena are the two main things going on right now.

If it was only to apologize to the $250 backers, that fix us odd. If they wanted to apologize to RL, they didn't have to give them more drafts, just let them start with an extra card in hand against bosses in Arena. Let GM get 10 percent more gold across all fights in arena until the real experience system is in place. There's PvE content that's finally been launched. It didn't necessarily have to he 6 more months of draft, but it likely to keep that part of the game up and running, and that's why it feels like a odd fix.

If one of the core reasons was to keep that active, it could have been more inclusive to other people who have also spent money.

Xenavire
04-18-2015, 07:48 PM
You are connecting a persons motivations for backing Hex to the contents tied to their respective kickstarter tiers. Focusing on small promises while ignoring the large ones. It is a rather convenient way to arrange the facts, to say the least. A $130 promise vs a $2 million promise....

Be as stubborn as you like, but everyone is in the same position, except those who added MORE money and have nothing for it. It is like someone pledging 2x King, then HexEnt saying due to technical limitations those people couldn't use that second king tier for over a year. A small section of people have been put out far worse than the norm, and that is why those people are not being treated like everyone else.

It doesn't matter what anyone's motivations were for the pledge, it is all about the specific part of that tier not being delivered, and the extension being made to keep the value as close to equal as possible for those tiers.

Gwaer
04-18-2015, 07:50 PM
Yea, about giving more lotus gardens, I'll take that argument. Thinking that a one time creation of which there will never be more and only a set number is equivalent to a set that will eventually rotate out? These things are nowhere near the same. For the life of the game people will want these lotus petals to actively run content, that is not the case with any card in sets 1, 2 or 3. All of those will eventually go away. If there aren't enough they can reprint it. if there are too many the price will be a bit lower until there's a very high player population. So yea, I don't think those things are in any way equivalent. And giving away lotus gardens doesn't keep drafts firing.


In 6 months doing this again would be even harder to swallow. Once is unpleasant but understandable. Now they're aware of the issue, and need to be working on other solutions. If that's a lottery, or a draft competition or reward so be it.

zadies
04-18-2015, 07:52 PM
Oh it absolutely feels like a way to keep drafts firing, which is fine as a goal because draft and arena are the two main things going on right now.

If it was only to apologize to the $250 backers, that fix us odd. If they wanted to apologize to RL, they didn't have to give them more drafts, just let them start with an extra card in hand against bosses in Arena. Let GM get 10 percent more gold across all fights in arena. There's PvE content that's finally been launched. It didn't necessarily have to he 6 more months of draft, but it likely to keep that part of the game up and running, and that's why it feels like a odd fix.

If one of the core reasons was to keep that active, it could have been more inclusive to other people who have also spent money.

I think your missing the point that a number of individuals who backed at those tiers did so with the idea that the free drafts would a) cover 3 sets at a 4 month release window as discussed during the ks and b) the one year of free drafts set a timeframe for the pve to launch and should be extended to the point that the pve acctually launches.

Gwaer
04-18-2015, 07:59 PM
Also what if this moves makes players who feel it was wrong draft less?

If those 2,000 players get a free draft a week, what if over 2,000 other players start drafting less, partly because of boreom with the set and partly because their customer loyalty was ignored?

What if, what if, what if more people start playing because they see how much they care about meeting the expectations of their player base, what if martians attack because of the audacity of this move.

For certain, a percentage of players who have these free drafts for a year don't care, a percentage of them don't even use them, and let them expire. Another percentage only rare draft and drop, another percentage only even bother trying because they are free. All of the people in those categories that actually play would have immediately stopped queuing, we can debate the effect of that sudden loss of people being in seats when others who actually enjoy playing drafts try to enter and cannot, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption that it was a concern. This is the easiest solution, when expectations for a better new player experience were not met. They've basically set a 6 month upper limit on their 100k tournament, and pvp improvements. If they don't make it... Then they can't just keep extending this free draft period, I think most people can agree this is not an ideal solution, but it is a workable one that cost them no dev time, so they can not risk further delaying the actual solution that they can hopefully deliver in this 6 month window they've given themselves.

zadies
04-18-2015, 07:59 PM
Also what if this moves makes players who feel it was wrong draft less?

If those 2,000 players get a free draft a week, what if over 2,000 other players start drafting less, partly because of boreom with the set and partly because their customer loyalty was ignored?

The likely hood of that happening through a set launch is slim at best... and we should have at least 1 set launch hopefully 2 in the next six months if things actually start going according to plan.

zadies
04-18-2015, 08:01 PM
They've basically set a 6 month upper limit on their 100k tournament, and pvp improvements. If they don't make it... Then they can't just keep extending this free draft period, I think most people can agree this is not an ideal solution, but it is a workable one that cost them no dev time, so they can not risk further delaying the actual solution that they can hopefully deliver in this 6 month window they've given themselves.
I think they set a 6 month window on getting the pve released rather then on the pvp improvements tbh... I expect the 100k tournament and set 3 to launch concurrently in the next month though but I could be sadly mistaken about that.

Sparrow
04-18-2015, 08:02 PM
I think your missing the point that a number of individuals who backed at those tiers did so with the idea that the free drafts would a) cover 3 sets at a 4 month release window as discussed during the ks and b) the one year of free drafts set a timeframe for the pve to launch and should be extended to the point that the pve acctually launches.
I see what you're saying, but I think the only reason to do this, in this manner, is to keep drafts firing. 20,000 drafts firing in a year isn't a very inspiring # to me, especially with so many free drafts. One draft ticket translates into 1/2 to 2 free drafts if you assume any winnings fuel another draft (and the winnings from those drafts fuel another, etc.).

Plus it's easy to implement. It's for these reasons that I think it's not something that was considered for too long or too deeply.