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Starving_Lich
04-20-2015, 03:41 PM
Hello there everybody. I recently joined this community and am uterly amazed, not only by the game which is making great progress ever since I first stumbled upon it, but also by the amazing community itself, which is more friendly, helpful and respecting than any other.

Well, as amazed as I am as sad am I to see that the biggest evil force in this games World seems to be a bunch of overpopulating and suicidal rabbits, that don't know their place, epic monsters such as the Starving Lich (my nr.1 favourite card next to the wall of corpses) don't see much action. In hope to change that I would love every living (or unliving) soul to think of the coolest and most horrifying undead monster or necromantic mage and maybe even a special power that this creature would have. In hopes that this thread migt inspire some creators or eventually will simply be fun.

Here are some of my Ideas:


Dracolich
3303
A dragon, which soul is trapped in a Phylacterie, no matter how strong you think yourself to be, this is the point where you piss yourself and start blabbering uncomprehensible nonsense as you go insane in fear.


Demi-Lich:
3301 this was ment to be 5 def, not 15 lol
A unimaginable old Lich. Its body made up of countless bodies bones and flesh alike. This creature has wandered the surface for aeons and has attaine undescribable power, there has yet to be a hero to stand before this monstrosity and survive.


Necrocraft:
3304
Combining ones workmanship with the art of necromancy does more than often led to grotesque sculptures made of the flesh of the dead, the part where they come alive is mostly unintended but definietly adds a certain amount of majesticity to the artform.

Corpse Combustion:
3305
A rather simple form of necromancy which imbues ones undead slaves with negative energy which, upon death, combusts into a wave of negative energy.

Phylactery:
3306
The item that contains a Lich soul. It revives their creator eternally, but once destroyed no magic in this world may restore the soul which is lost.

More to come, editing around atm.

Xavon
04-20-2015, 04:04 PM
When I saw the topic, I was thinking of some kind of undead key word. Like:

Ghoul: X if this goes to the graveyard from play, put it back into play X turns later.

AdamAoE2
04-20-2015, 04:05 PM
Incorporeal Spirit - :blood::blood: (4)
TROOP - Ghost
Lifedrain
2: Incorporeal Spirit becomes Ethereal (Ethereal troops receive and deal half damage from combat rounded down, and take double damage from actions and constants.)
2: Incorporeal Spirit loses Ethereal.
3/2
UNCOMMON
"'Tis an unseasonably cold breeze for Midsummer, right Dracus? ...Dracus?" - Last words of Argo Shieldhall, Border Patrolman

*****

Skull Horror - :blood::blood::blood: (3)
TROOP - Undead Horror
Flight
3, Exhaust -> Randomly create a Life Siphon, Terrible Transfer, or Withering Touch and put it into your hand.
1/3
RARE
When the most powerful necrotics perish, the energy of the hexing gems sometimes reanimates their skull as a horrifying Skull Horror, burning away what little flesh remained.

*****

Deimos, Lich Lord - :blood::blood::blood: (5)
TROOP - Lich
Lethal, Lifedrain
Actions in your graveyard have cost +2.
You may play actions from your graveyard as though they were in your hand. If you do, void that action afterwards.
1/5
LEGENDARY
"Death is no match for my ambition."

Starving_Lich
04-20-2015, 04:14 PM
i love the idea of ghosts as a subtype and the GHOUL special effect (b-)b keep it coming

Xavon
04-20-2015, 05:25 PM
Relentless Zombie - :blood::blood: (1)
TROOP -Zombie
Ghoul: 2


Once they get a whiff of your brain, they will never stop.
1/1

Necrotic Traitor - :diamond: (2)
TROOP - Human Mage
Ghoul: 3

If this Troop enters play under your control as a result of Ghoul it becomes Necrotic.

They betrayed their people in their first life, for a chance at an eternal one; not realizing their second life was not their own.
1/3

Necromancer of Naagaan - :blood::blood: (4)
TROOP - Necrotic Mage
Ghoul: 3, Defensive

When a Troop enters play under your control as a result of Ghoul, it gains Lethal and Lifedrain.

1/5

Starving_Lich
04-20-2015, 11:06 PM
actually I must say, I think hex made a big mistake with Izydor, he pretty much limits the future of Zombies extremely as his mere existing makes every actually good zombie OP . . .

Undead are about swarming, dying and returning. Not about instakilling everything, like rabbits their strenght come in numbers, but not because they buff each other but their individual powers gets amplified by numbers. I think they'd rather need amazing action cards that buff them while there are few and amazing undead as well that might be much more expensive than the standard zombie but that for a reason.

So, here some non ridiculous cards unlike before xD i took a look at strong hexcards again and facepalmed myself seeing how i gave Dracolich 20 atk. . . should be like. . .10

Ghoul Hunter
3310
Savage braineating Ghouls. Surprisingly these are no necromantic creatures but naturally generated Undead that rise on graveyards seemingly at random. Although they are more frequent the worse the graveyards overal condition.

Also I think this is how tunnelig for yazukan should be handled. Only voiding stuff is a pretty damn counterplay for low level creatures. . .

Dark Apprentice:
3309 Dmg 0/2 Def
Studying his Masters' Tomes these fools have unlocked unspeakable powers, to bad they suck at using them

Tomb Crawler
3311
They don't only crawl through tombs thou, I promise.

Skeletal Champion
3314
Once these things have gone off into a rage they start mindlessly slashing away at every breathing creature in range and nothing can stop them. Like . . . literallly nothing.

Zombie Champion
3315
You can try killing one of these every day . . . nice try. Better luck next time

Starving_Lich
04-21-2015, 09:58 AM
I thought again, and I think GHOUL is actually no good. . . Undead shouldn't be about mindlessly returning time and time again, sure, some should, but just use the tunneling ability for that as the minion of yazukan does. I believe undead should be more about raising more undead, debuffing enemies and death effects, meaning utilizing powerful abilities that needs them to die.

Corpse tower:
3316
The undead have proven time and time again, that they do everything to reach their target and having no sense of self preservation they do tend to go to the extreme doing so. Even going as far as crushing themselves, building gigantic towers, which pretty much always crumble apart . . . nothing is more scary than raining zombies though . . .

Soul Sacrifice:
3317
What prices are you willing to pay?

Undead Horde:
3318
It is a strange phenomena but especially with human undead it can be seen quite frequently that these mindless creatures are found in packs. If an area has been infected by Zombies for to long it is quite common for them to have grown in number so rapidly that the once small packs now seem to be one gigantic horde of Undead, which rivals even small armies in numbers. It is impossible to fight these, and hiding is no option either. Your only hope of escape is running, although the mindless creatures do not have the speed to catch up to you, once your scent has spread through the masses they wont stop chasing after you . . . if one leads a horde towards a city, one might get chased away by the cities wachdogs as to lead the horde away again.

Fresh Corpse
3320
Because we undead apparently turn into ladies if we dont get our daily meals . . .

Fred
04-21-2015, 11:04 AM
Hello there everybody. I recently joined this community and am uterly amazed, not only by the game which is making great progress ever since I first stumbled upon it, but also by the amazing community itself, which is more friendly, helpful and respecting than any other.


Welcome aboard. We do strive to have a nice, respectful community in Hex, and according to your feedback, we seem to have succeeded in some level. Thanks.



Well, as amazed as I am as sad am I to see that the biggest evil force in this games World seems to be a bunch of overpopulating and suicidal rabbits, that don't know their place, epic monsters such as the Starving Lich (my nr.1 favourite card next to the wall of corpses) don't see much action. In hope to change that I would love every living (or unliving) soul to think of the coolest and most horrifying undead monster or necromantic mage and maybe even a special power that this creature would have. In hopes that this thread migt inspire some creators or eventually will simply be fun.


The number 1 reason why epic monsters such as Starving Lich are not getting played as much these days is the cost is too prohibitive in the current meta. It is an awesome card with a great effect, but a threshold of :blood::blood::blood::blood::blood: for a 2/2 troop forces you to play a mono-blood deck, and therefore greatly reduces the number of decks you can expect to see it in.

The cards you designed are cool indeed, and the R&D designers might use them as inspiration for something in the future. However, in their current state, your cards suffer from the same unplayability as Starving Lich. Dracolich has a cost of 20 (!) resources, with a threshold of 9. I'd say that about 90% of my games are over by turn 9, and 99% by turn 20. As awesome as the card is, it will never see play.

That is why card design for a TCG is such a hard and complicated task. On the one hand, you want cards that are just awesome and that destroy everything in a blink of an eye, but on the other hand, you want those cards to actually be playable while maintaining the balance between that awesome card and all the other cards that exist. It's easy to simply say "I'd like to have a 20/10 troop that can destroy any card in play! Just make it cost a lot so it's not overpowered." But then, by making sure it's not overpowered, you make it so it's unplayable.

There are already some such cards, and if they don't see play, it's not because they're not good enough, it's because the cost is prohibitive.

See:

Comet Strike (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/images/cards/big/CometStrike.jpg): Wipes the whole board and then some.

Argus, Herald of Doom (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/images/cards/big/ArgusHeraldOfDoom.jpg): A doomsday device that can void any card once a turn.

Resurrection (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/images/cards/big/Resurrection.jpg): Every turn, one troop comes back to life from your graveyard, into play, for free. It even gets +2/+2

Fred
04-21-2015, 11:05 AM
When I saw the topic, I was thinking of some kind of undead key word. Like:

Ghoul: X if this goes to the graveyard from play, put it back into play X turns later.

Such a mechanic already exists in the Minion of Yazukan (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/images/cards/big/MinionOfYazukan.jpg).

Starving_Lich
04-21-2015, 11:17 AM
of course i see your argumentation there, i also stated that the dracolich is simply ridiculiou but pls, just look at dat thing, you want it and you know it ;D as for my first post, it features lots of way to strong cards, like the demilih and stuff. Sure it would barely see play, but not like its a card you put 4 copies of into your deck. As for the bloodshardfocus, i think thats what undead should strive for, orcs focus strongly on red shards as humans do on white, yet there are a couple of blackshards of every race. I think undead should be limited to this and not as widespread as they currently are. Undead mixed together with other races just makes not much sense to me. Of course this would limit combinationability, but i think the right combination of undead and card synergy (which should be utilizable in more ways than: this and this is op so everybody play this) would make them more fun to play than simply being a hibrid inbetween card race for all to utilize to the max without sacrifice. Also Undead should combo with Necrotic cards just as archytectures do with dwarves and so on. Of course this is my oppinion, also i am still making more cards (takes lots of time as i wanna do this fancy looking ;D) the ones coming are all rather low cost and i hope i didnt went as overboard as before.

Starving_Lich
04-21-2015, 11:23 AM
not to mention, zombie deck. Mill ur hand, and resurect all the op high cost monsters in due time :D. Also the meaning of such a overpowered card is obvious to end the game in one quick go. High risk high reward. But in the end i just have a mighty man-boner for dragons, liches and undead so . .. meeeh

Fred
04-21-2015, 12:15 PM
You are right that anything Undead will primarily (or solely) focus on Blood magic. Maybe there's more Undead and Zombie coming up in future sets. Block 1 (sets 1 and 2) had their main focus on 4 of the main races (humans, orcs, dwarves and shin'hare). Block 2 (sets 3 and 4) is supposed to focus more on the 4 remaining main races (elves, coyotles, necrotic and vennen). While those blocks to get some cards for the minor races (undead, shroomkin, goblins, chaostouched), maybe we'll see a full set or even block more focused on those minor races once we have enough cards to support the lore.

And while it would make sense that Undead and Necrotic have some synergy, do not make the mistake of confusing the two. While both use flesh that "died and then came back to life" (at least by human standards), they have very different motives and interests. Undead tend to be mindless abominations that want nothing but kill and feed off of any living thing, whereas Necrotic are sentient beings, getting their energy from diamond hexing gems, who were happy minding their own business until the humans came poking at them and vowed to eradicate them.

Starving_Lich
04-21-2015, 12:35 PM
I disagree, only the lowest and weakest Undead are mindless. Undead have great leaders and the like just as any other race, such as wights, Liches, shadows, vampires etc. in fact as the main force of negative energy aka.unlive Undead are a pretty big deal and their mindless kind only proves that, as the mindless creatures are slaves of the greater ones and merely slaves to them. Necromancers of course try to learn the art of unlive but only archieve greatness doing so by being exceptionally talented, guidance through undead creatures or becoming undead themselve. While undead of course feast of the living they are also able towork with them and vice versa. Of course the opposite is also an alternative.

Anyways, guy comon, show some ideas, you dont need to be all fancy, a simple rough description of cool effects or monsters in general is all im asking for. I can seriously be the only one dreaming of exploding undead and zombie apocalypses

ChosenUndead
04-21-2015, 01:37 PM
Call from Beyond - :blood::blood:
Instant

Find 2, 2 mana or lower Blood only creatures in your deck and place them into your hand. Each gets 0/-1
RARE
"Isn't it natural for all beings when covered in darkness to go towards a light?" - Necrotic Paladin

ChosenUndead
04-21-2015, 01:39 PM
Phylactery:
3306
The item that contains a Lich soul. It revives their creator eternally, but once destroyed no magic in this world may restore the soul which is lost.

I think it would be more fair if the item was a 0/5 troop with defensive, since newer players might not run void or destroy action cards.

You could also have it to were it must exhaust on the second turn for 1 mana, making it possible to counter for many diffrent decks.

strylght
04-21-2015, 01:52 PM
You are right that anything Undead will primarily (or solely) focus on Blood magic. Maybe there's more Undead and Zombie coming up in future sets. Block 1 (sets 1 and 2) had their main focus on 4 of the main races (humans, orcs, dwarves and shin'hare). Block 2 (sets 3 and 4) is supposed to focus more on the 4 remaining main races (elves, coyotles, necrotic and vennen). While those blocks to get some cards for the minor races (undead, shroomkin, goblins, chaostouched), maybe we'll see a full set or even block more focused on those minor races once we have enough cards to support the lore.

And while it would make sense that Undead and Necrotic have some synergy, do not make the mistake of confusing the two. While both use flesh that "died and then came back to life" (at least by human standards), they have very different motives and interests. Undead tend to be mindless abominations that want nothing but kill and feed off of any living thing, whereas Necrotic are sentient beings, getting their energy from diamond hexing gems, who were happy minding their own business until the humans came poking at them and vowed to eradicate them.

Would be interesting to see the humans maybe forced to up their necromancy game in future lore. Would be a no-brainer in a war against something like the Necrotic, right? Use their primary resource against them?

Starving_Lich
04-21-2015, 02:31 PM
hey totaly agree with the phylactery although i disagree on the exhaustion. A phylacterie needs to be destroyed to influence a lich, nothing else, it would already be super risky to make it that easily destroyable by making it a troop.

As for necros vs undead, humans definietly need to up their game. Humans may be able to create and control mindless undead, but they have big struggle going against inteligent undead, while undead have much up their sleeve, mind control being part of it. So besides having acces to the highest rank of necromancy, supernatural physique and other talents, as well as unlimited numbers, they have the ability to use the human/necromancers army against themself including submiting the necromancers to their will with magc, while being totaly resistanct vs mind effects themselves.

ChosenUndead
04-21-2015, 03:30 PM
Here's a aoe for sapphire decks, since they lack it early game.

Imploding Doom - :sapphire::blood: (1)
Basic Action

Deal 1-3 damage to all troops of a chosen type on the field.
RARE

"Why are you yelling at me, I'm not the one exploding am I?" - Human Scouting Party Leader

Starving_Lich
04-21-2015, 04:20 PM
that just gave me an idea:

Fear: :blood: (1x)
Quick Action

Send 1 Card with a Mana cost equal to X back into the Hand of its controller. It cannot be played again for X turns.

"Are you sure this is where you heard the screams? I can't hear anyth-" -Nightwatch Corporal Knob, Last Words

ChosenUndead
04-21-2015, 04:44 PM
Hmmm, feels a bit too op later on in the game, since exiles can be voided and inner conflicts can still activate their abilites.

Whye
04-22-2015, 09:29 PM
Undead Horde
Skeletal Champion[/ATTACH]


Be careful with where you are getting the art for these...

Starving_Lich
04-23-2015, 01:10 AM
I am googling them and if anyone complains i can either replace it or black it out

Saeijou
04-23-2015, 10:41 AM
really nice ideas :)

Whye
04-23-2015, 11:55 AM
I am googling them and if anyone complains i can either replace it or black it out

GIS for those two cards link directly to MTG cards.

Starving_Lich
04-25-2015, 05:51 AM
Just a general talk concerning what zombies are and what kind of zombies there are. It is wrong to determine a Lich being a sentient zombie, the only zombie with somewhat a scrap of inteligence are Ghouls, and parasyte infected zombies are also mindless, except the parasyte controlling them isnt.

Mindless Zombies: The standard mindless sort of undead with very limited strenghts. They are strong, stronger than they were in life, but the lack of weaponry or inteligence makes them just slightly stronger than ur average farmer most of the time. Yet, their sturdy dead bodies and the ability to ignore any wound makes them unkillable. Only holy purification can end a zombies unlife. Also these only sort of powers these have is reproduction through their bites and blood, there are certain zombies whose former living statue increased the compability of their bodies to their new form such as being formerly obese people, who as zombies get called "Bloaters" (a bloater is a big zombie rotten from the inside who upon destruction can explode or simply release his rotten insides, which are to high degree toxic and carry the zombie disease). There are also those few examples that have rotten to the very point that they can vomit their own insides at the enemy, these zombies are rare, as these are corpses just about to dissintegrate to nothing more than waste.
|
|-Ghouls: A Ghoul are not to be mistaken for Zombies, indeed they are pretty much the same thing, but Ghouls are of a higher 'evolutional' standard. They are what you would call an evolved zombie Also, all ghouls have some sort of special ability, most ghouls have claws to climb, the build to run fast on all limbs, are poisonous if not carrying a terrible disease and their recreational bite is said to be 3x worse than that of a zombie, not to mention it automatically causes the undead to be an ghoul, therefore a evolved version of its former body. Typically a ghoul is what most of you know as 'hunter' from left4dead.
|
|_ Parasites: The strongest, most gruesome and disgusting kind of "zombie"-like undead. While formerly a mere zombie or ghoul, these undead bodies have a mutated second life form housing inside, which controls the bodies movement. This is possible due to parasites living in the bodie in life, who in transmutated due to the zombie virus and took on gruesome shapes, as those of giant worms etc.. While in control of these bodies, sharing their zombie features, these parasites have the body gain additional abilities, due to their own interaction with prey, such as extending from the body, snatching prey (often mistaken for zombies with long tonuges) etc.

Don't forget, wether ghoul or normal zombie, the stronger the dead body, the stronger the zombie and everything of organic substance can become undead. The strongest known Zombie type of undead would be a Parasite infested dragon known as: Skincrawler. A horrific undead zombie dragon with millions of spiders crawling beneath its scales, these spiders never stop reproducing inside the dragons corpse and act as one, just like an ant army, making use of the dragons body who is partly Alive as well. These spiders can similary to a dragons fire breath, be sent at enemies, theyr sharp mutated legs burry into the skin and thei're physique makes it easy for them to bypass and fleshy surface and move through it. Imagine what a bunch of those crawling over you will do soon after, inside of you.

Xenavire
04-25-2015, 06:14 AM
Corrupted War Bot
Cost 4
Artifact troop - Robot Zombie
If this deals damage to another artifact troop, revert it and transform it into a Corrupted War Bot. Then there is a 50% chance you gain control of it.
3att/3def

strylght
04-25-2015, 09:26 AM
Starving_Lich, I am concerned that you are creating some kind of amalgamation of undead lore from across the horror and fantasy genres in general.
I think what you need to understand is that CZE could, and hopefully will do something different with the lore of undead in their world. Only they control what it means to be a Zombie, or a Vampire in the world of Hex and how necromancy works.

Indeed, CZE already have done something interesting with old undead tropes and the result is the Necrotic. The Necrotic are completely different to traditional undead in their lore and, while we know that the Hex world has undead which are not Necrotic, we shouldn't assume so much detail about said undead which may end up not fitting in with the lore.

Just some food for thought...

Starving_Lich
04-25-2015, 11:26 AM
You misunderstand greatly, I am not dictating any lore the way I want it, I was simply to lazy to think up any more cards and just gave a general description of zombies in the hope if anybody from the team actually comes here, reads this and thinks "yeh that might work" (as the idea of havin lichs be unkillable with teir mortallity bein in conjunction to their phylacteries). If some of those peps would actually come here, read the stuff thats writte, they might stumble upon the infested zombie and think: " WHOA NICU DESU NE, a zombie filled with a giant worm that can exhaust opponents by shooting out of the zombie and wrapping around the target. Or the ghouls being way more likely to have speed/ swiftstrike than a normal zombie. This is not lore, this is merely a bored me writing up stuff and if u can interpret it right u can think of nice ways to utilize this brainbrabbling in many ways and come up with ur own ideas.

Also pls, dont act as if u ont want that skincrawler, bitches love skincrawler. (b-)b

btw. while necrotic are just a combination of golems and undead i agree, they are pretty neat, i still can't see em as anything but undead. . . althou the energy type might be different since they live up on the shards in their eye sockets. Still, rotten dead body = undead so idcare.

Starving_Lich
04-25-2015, 11:33 AM
Also I highly doubt anything of what i write will have any impact whatsoever, I just hoped to gather some people to talk about undead and stuff since I like em and enjoy their presence in this game, which is something most games lack. But it seems I got my hopes up for nothing, although everybody wants to play zombies it seems, yet nobody even has the time to write a single card he would like to see. Except the few bunches who commented before . . . thanks to you guys (b-)b

so stry, go ahead actually leave behind an undead you would like to see.

strylght
04-27-2015, 11:46 AM
Hey, yeah sorry, didn't mean to shut you down or anything. Coming up with card ideas is fun and its interesting to see your ideas, so don't let me stop you! :D

What I wonder about is, would the Necrotic be able to claim dead bodies that have already been risen through other means? So, could you have a card that represents the insertion of gems that, for example, gives anything with a 'Zombie' or other undead keyword the 'Necrotic' keyword. That would be useful for affinity decks and Necrotic tribal effects. Perhaps it could even steal an opposing undead.
So...

Aggressive Reclamation
Basic Action
Take control of opposing [undead keywords] troop. It gains the Necrotic type in addition to all others.
(I feel fairly confident the Necrotic will have something like this that works on troops in graveyards anyway)

or

Chromatic Evangelist
Troop - Necrotic
Socketed Minor
Socketed Minor
Sacrifice Chromatic Evangelist - Target [undead keywords] troop gains the Necrotic type in addition to all others and all socketed abilities of Chromatic Evangelist.
(again, the Necrotic may well have something similar to this that raises troops in graveyards)


Names are placeholders, obviously. And sorry, not strictly undead ideas, but undead related.

israel.kendall
04-28-2015, 03:28 AM
I think it would be cool if in a future set zombies infested entrath and showed up in all the shards. Coyotle zombies, elf zombies, dwarf zombies, just zombies everywhere.

Erukk
04-28-2015, 04:54 AM
I think it would be cool if in a future set zombies infested entrath and showed up in all the shards. Coyotle zombies, elf zombies, dwarf zombies, just zombies everywhere.

Lore-wise, dwarves might have to just settle for just being corrupted, because I have a hard time imaging a zombie biting into their stone flesh or a necromancer reanimating them after they're broken down into rumble. :D

New card idea! Broken Tooth Zombies