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Cernz
04-27-2015, 10:56 PM
didnt see it on the forums, so i just post it :)

http://www.mmobomb.com/video-interview-cory-jones-hex-shards-fate/

if it was posted already - sorry :P

Gwaer
04-27-2015, 11:21 PM
This might have been the best birthday present I could have gotten. I am very glad to hear him talk in depth on monetization.

Zophie
04-27-2015, 11:52 PM
"People are going to lose their minds." - Cory Jones

I seriously never get tired of hearing Cory talk about Hex. Or anything really. He really needs to start up a podcast or something :D

Cernz
04-27-2015, 11:56 PM
"People are going to lose their minds." - Cory Jones

I seriously never get tired of hearing Cory talk about Hex. Or anything really. He really needs to start up a podcast or something :D

good idea, even a BLOG would be nice :P :P :P :P :P .... :)

Assassine
04-28-2015, 12:23 AM
Honestly, watching them play made me cringe a little. That game could have been over by turn 6 :D

Interesting interview, thanks for the link.

xou
04-28-2015, 01:38 AM
why is no one excited that Cory spoiled one of his secret IGNs? don't know about you but I'll be looking for Skullzor in game from now on VERY HARD :)

Mejis
04-28-2015, 02:13 AM
Haven't got time to watch it just now but thanks for the link.

Can anyone confirm what the "new" stuff is that is in the description on the site? The author says it "might" be coming as early as June. Does that mean set 3?

FreezingPhoenix
04-28-2015, 03:04 AM
Have we heard about consumables before?

nickon
04-28-2015, 03:22 AM
Have we heard about consumables before?

I was wondering the same thing as Cory seemed to use the term as if it is already familiar for everyone

israel.kendall
04-28-2015, 03:32 AM
Have we heard about consumables before?http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38969&page=28&p=429812#post429812

hammer
04-28-2015, 03:35 AM
I was wondering the same thing as Cory seemed to use the term as if it is already familiar for everyone

These are the crafting consumables, this was in the kickstarter higher tiers (king+) as a stretch goal giving 1 of each respective crafting material.

"The Void Society has come to Entrath to gather raw materials for their war effort back home. They take cards and gear you donít need and, in return, give you items that can combine into new and unique PvE cards and gear. Players can gain access to these crafting cards and gear by turning the cards and gear they donít need into component parts, then assemble the crafting components into items. Unlock more powerful items and crafting recipes as you level your crafting skill".

Xenavire
04-28-2015, 03:38 AM
I don't think we heard anything new. However I am pumped to hear about the talents being amazing. Can't wait.

strylght
04-28-2015, 03:48 AM
A quick impression from the first few minutes:
I think its sad that he says story and card games has never been combined before. Personally I was deeply enthused by the stories in MtG as a teen.

israel.kendall
04-28-2015, 03:53 AM
A quick impression from the first few minutes:
I think its sad that he says story and card games has never been combined before. Personally I was deeply enthused by the stories in MtG as a teen.

I Dont think he meant it in the way MTG has a "story". Hex will have stories within the game itself, from my understanding.

Xenavire
04-28-2015, 03:57 AM
A quick impression from the first few minutes:
I think its sad that he says story and card games has never been combined before. Personally I was deeply enthused by the stories in MtG as a teen.

I don't think he means the books (which were kind of tacked onto the card game as an afterthought.) I think he means a rich backstory that feels like it is a living book, with characters and locations you will recognise.

I mean, we have quite a bit of lore. We know about the Orc leaders, Zoltog, Tetzot, etc. We have a location we can visit already in the Hyperborean mountains. We know how Giles and Gozzog are linked (I won't say exactly how, because spoilers) and so much more. And we don't have a single story-driven dungeon yet, so having this much richness so early is pretty amazing.

strylght
04-28-2015, 04:07 AM
I don't think he means the books (which were kind of tacked onto the card game as an afterthought.) I think he means a rich backstory that feels like it is a living book, with characters and locations you will recognise.

I mean, we have quite a bit of lore. We know about the Orc leaders, Zoltog, Tetzot, etc. We have a location we can visit already in the Hyperborean mountains. We know how Giles and Gozzog are linked (I won't say exactly how, because spoilers) and so much more. And we don't have a single story-driven dungeon yet, so having this much richness so early is pretty amazing.

I'm not talking about books either, never read a MtG book. MtG, though, felt exactly like a living book to me with characters and stories and lore intertwined among the flavour text and art of the cards.

Secondly, this point about Magic was my point exclusively. I am in NO WAY saying I think Hex's lore/story is sub-par for its age. In NO WAY! :)

Xenavire
04-28-2015, 04:10 AM
I'm not talking about books either, never read a MtG book. MtG, though, felt exactly like a living book to me with characters and stories and lore intertwined among the flavour text and art of the cards.

Secondly, this point about Magic was my point exclusively. I am in NO WAY saying I think Hex's lore/story is sub-par for its age. In NO WAY! :)

Hmm, maybe I just didn't like how the blocks cut the story up into tiny pieces, but MTG always felt lackluster in the story department. I mean, I found Ravnica to be a neat place, but it was so quickly abandoned. It was fun going back to ice age, but same deal - it was over very quickly.

So far in Hex it seems like we will be seeing one massive story fit together as more and more pieces are introduced, and that feels more natural to me. (Not saying I disliked how MTG made the worlds, just felt too small in scale. :p)

Aradon
04-28-2015, 04:12 AM
Yeah, MtG's lore is comparable with Hex's, so it's a bit of an odd comment. Stories and cards have been a combination ever since tarot was invented, and if we're looking exclusively at tcgs, most of them have themes and lore to varying degrees. Heck, I played a tcg inside Xenosaga. There's a combination of story and tcg if I've ever seen one.

Kroan
04-28-2015, 04:17 AM
I think he was talking about specifically being able to play through a story (PvE) with a cards that belong in that story.

strylght
04-28-2015, 04:18 AM
Hmm, maybe I just didn't like how the blocks cut the story up into tiny pieces, but MTG always felt lackluster in the story department. I mean, I found Ravnica to be a neat place, but it was so quickly abandoned. It was fun going back to ice age, but same deal - it was over very quickly.

So far in Hex it seems like we will be seeing one massive story fit together as more and more pieces are introduced, and that feels more natural to me. (Not saying I disliked how MTG made the worlds, just felt too small in scale. :p)


You're right about the blocks splitting the story. But characters coming back in later blocks and story ends being tied up was exciting. Perhaps I am suffering from some nostalgia bias.
Anyway, my point was simply that there has been story in card games before, not that those stories were great or that Hex's suck.

If Hex enjoys even a remotely similar lifespan to Magic then I do believe they can weave a more consistent and epic story and library of lore. But I do think they may need to up their flavour text game if they want to do this. I don't want my story drip-fed to me through PvE campaigns, I want it aloof and elusive, intertwined through the cards and their art. Both is good too though.

EDIT: I would like to add that, having listened to the whole thing, everything Cory said about Hex was fantastic and enthusing!

bootlace
04-28-2015, 06:17 AM
I don't want my story drip-fed to me through PvE campaigns, I want it aloof and elusive, intertwined through the cards and their art.

You indeed seem to be suffering from nostalgia bias . There is a whole new digital medium for them to explore and tell their story in engaging ways. Text on cards was the only way they could do it in the past so they did it, but by no means should HexEnt limit themselves to that limited space to tell their story.

They're going to have whole dungeons where you're playing out key parts of the story, there's going to be back and forth interactive dialogues, they're going to offer impactful choices that's going to determine how the dungeon plays out and what cards you're permanently going to be able to own. We won't only be hinted at parts of the story through cryptic bits of text but will essentially experience the story first hand. That has never been done in a TCG, at least on the scope that HexEnt are working on.

strylght
04-28-2015, 07:09 AM
You indeed seem to be suffering from nostalgia bias . There is a whole new digital medium for them to explore and tell their story in engaging ways. Text on cards was the only way they could do it in the past so they did it, but by no means should HexEnt limit themselves to that limited space to tell their story.

They're going to have whole dungeons where you're playing out key parts of the story, there's going to be back and forth interactive dialogues, they're going to offer impactful choices that's going to determine how the dungeon plays out and what cards you're permanently going to be able to own. We won't only be hinted at parts of the story through cryptic bits of text but will essentially experience the story first hand. That has never been done in a TCG, at least on the scope that HexEnt are working on.

I think you're right and this all sounds exciting, believe me.

What I am slightly sceptical of is, as is an issue with many MMOs, when the exposition of a story largely takes place during sequences of combat, that story consists very often of a lot of combat and not much else. Not saying its impossible for CZE to get around this and innovate; I certainly hope they do!

bootlace
04-28-2015, 07:14 AM
I think you're right and this all sounds exciting, believe me.

What I am slightly sceptical of is, as is an issue with many MMOs, when the exposition of a story largely takes place during sequences of combat, that story consists very often of a lot of combat and not much else. Not saying its impossible for CZE to get around this and innovate; I certainly hope they do!

I don't know if you watched the interview Cirouss did with Cory last year about the PvE campaign but it gives us a great glimpse of what's to come (and much of the story seems to unfold inbetween fights, not during):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOplnMEvoac

strylght
04-28-2015, 07:16 AM
I don't know if you watched the interview Cirouss did with Cory last year about the PvE campaign but it gives us a great glimpse of what's to come (and much of the story seems to unfold inbetween fights, not during):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOplnMEvoac

I have not seen that, thanks for the link.

Xenavire
04-28-2015, 07:18 AM
I also remember hearing about dungeons that will be more puzzle solving than 'fighting'. So I hope to see those just oozing story. :p

ossuary
04-28-2015, 07:53 AM
Some interesting tidbits in this interview for people (like me) who are drooling over our chests:

chests can contain:
exclusive sleeves
exclusive mercenaries
equipment
PVE cards
PVP cards
booster packs

rarity dictates:
how many items
loot table (some crossover)

Also, he didn't specifically say so in the interview, but we've heard in the past that chests can also contain random amounts of gold. I doubt there would be any reason to take that out, it probably just wasn't smexy enough to mention specifically (or it slipped his mind). In addition, everyone expects the chests to contain AA cards (since they're already in the card manager and pool of random cards), but that wasn't called out either.

Some good info there!

hammer
04-28-2015, 08:03 AM
The economics behind, acquiring, opening and spinning chests is going to be quiet interesting indeed :D It will be interesting to see the impact on pack prices and gold to plat ratio's when chests are fully functional and the price that chests (spun and unspun) will reach on the auction house at each rarity.

Svenn
04-28-2015, 08:09 AM
Transcript, for those of us who can't watch it?

Vorpal
04-28-2015, 08:14 AM
rarity dictates:
how many items
loot table (some crossover)


thank goodness. I don't mind some crossover, but at one point the idea was bruited about that all chests would have the same loot table, with each rarity giving you one more item. This obviously would make the more expensive chests not really worth rolling for. Instead of spending 30k gold to try to upgrade your legendary to a primal and get one more item, you could just go buy another pack and get one more item and possibly more, guaranteed!

ossuary
04-28-2015, 08:21 AM
Yeah I don't know where that idea ever came from. ;)

Basically, as you go up rarity levels, some of the "crappier" low level items will drop off the list of possible items, and new "good" ones will be added, until you go all the way up to primal and get a couple of really awesome exclusives. Technically that would mean there are some items "exclusive" to common chests as well, just very low quality and easy to acquire ones. ;)

bootlace
04-28-2015, 08:23 AM
Are the WoF mercenaries (Ashahsa, Xorak, Puck, Slamvolt, Mother Dawnbreeze, Rakashani) also exclusive, anyone remember?

Jensling
04-28-2015, 08:23 AM
Regarding story in TCGs I feel compelled to mention Legend of the Five Rings (L5R) who integrates story, gameplay and even competetetive play all together... and has quite a lot of players whos main motivation in the game is the storytelling.

Vorpal
04-28-2015, 08:27 AM
You guys are confusing backstory to actual story mode in the game.

Yoss
04-28-2015, 08:29 AM
I don't think we heard anything new. However I am pumped to hear about the talents being amazing. Can't wait.

I heard that they're back to traditional MMORPG character/race levelling system. Very happy about that.

plaguedealer
04-28-2015, 08:58 AM
I would love to see a peek of the talent and consumable system, very exciting.

Jensling
04-28-2015, 08:58 AM
not really Vorpal, L5R competetive play (the "Koteis") is also the story mode of the game in a way (tournaments influence the official story).

strylght
04-28-2015, 09:13 AM
You guys are confusing backstory to actual story mode in the game.

Not confused, just voicing some minor concerns. What fun is a story mode if the backstory doesn't provide it with strong context? In my humble opinion the primary attribute of a story mode would be exciting and thematic exposition of rich backstory and the development of the characters and situations therein.

EntropyBall
04-28-2015, 09:20 AM
"People are going to lose their minds." - Cory Jones

I seriously never get tired of hearing Cory talk about Hex. Or anything really. He really needs to start up a podcast or something :D
I'm glad Cory is using his talents for good. If he was selling timeshares or something, I'd probably own 6 vacation properties in Nebraska by now. Every time I listen to an interview I end up wanting to buy more cards and feeling like I'd be getting the deal of a lifetime.

Saeijou
04-28-2015, 09:32 AM
does anyone have a "to long and i'm at work" summary? ;)

Xenavire
04-28-2015, 09:57 AM
I heard that they're back to traditional MMORPG character/race levelling system. Very happy about that.

I was half asleep as I watched it, didn't he just say 'excited about the account and character leveling systems'? To me that doesn't explicitly exclude might or something similar.

I hope you are right though, I like permanency. :)

MatWith1T
04-28-2015, 10:00 AM
I think that was the best, clearest, most eloquent explanation thus far of how Hex is and isn't a free-to-play game. Now how do you distill that down to a concise paragraph that can be somewhere on the hex site or in the landing page for a first time player in-game?

Gwaer
04-28-2015, 10:04 AM
You should re-listen to it Xenavire, Yoss is right he explicitly said they've gone back to a more traditional mmo philosophy. Picking a character and leveling it with talents and all that jazz. I did genuinely like the might system when I playtested it and hope they iterate on that idea rather than scraping it entirely. But either way we're in good hands. Ben Stoll heading up the PVE design right now is amazing, the guy is legitimately a creative genius.

MatWith1T
04-28-2015, 10:08 AM
Ben Stoll heading up the PVE design right now is amazing, the guy is legitimately a creative genius.

I thought PvE was mainly Drew's domain.

Xenavire
04-28-2015, 10:08 AM
You should re-listen to it Xenavire,

Will do. Will help to be alert I guess. :)

Gwaer
04-28-2015, 10:11 AM
I thought PvE was mainly Drew's domain.

That's the last thing we heard before this interview.

hex_colin
04-28-2015, 10:14 AM
You should re-listen to it Xenavire, Yoss is right he explicitly said they've gone back to a more traditional mmo philosophy. Picking a character and leveling it with talents and all that jazz. I did genuinely like the might system when I playtested it and hope they iterate on that idea rather than scraping it entirely. But either way we're in good hands. Ben Stoll heading up the PVE design right now is amazing, the guy is legitimately a creative genius.

Ben talked me through an insane amount of design work they'd done last time I was there - it all looks really awesome. :)

There is going to be so much to do that I need to be able to retire before it goes live. I'm actually paying Cory to hold off releasing it at this point... ;)


I thought PvE was mainly Drew's domain.

Ben is the man now! :)

MatWith1T
04-28-2015, 10:16 AM
Ben is the man now! :)

Confirmed! Benn's Colossal Walker in Set 3 :p

AdamAoE2
04-28-2015, 10:44 AM
I'm really looking forward to the upcoming stuff - Should be a ton of fun and help revitalize the game a bit.

Yoss
04-28-2015, 11:20 AM
I was half asleep as I watched it, didn't he just say 'excited about the account and character leveling systems'? To me that doesn't explicitly exclude might or something similar.

I hope you are right though, I like permanency. :)

He explicitly said they're going back to a traditional style of character/race and gushed about how awesome the Talent system will be.

plaguedealer
04-28-2015, 11:27 AM
The fiveshards interview also talks about the fact that they either scrapped or greatly changed the might system for a more traditional rpg methods of gaming (i think it was scrapped, but dont remember exactly). I personally am 1000% happy with the change.

Tazelbain
04-28-2015, 11:34 AM
The thing I didn't like about the old, new system was how marginally Mercs were. So I hope the new, new system let us get our Merc on more often.

Gwaer
04-28-2015, 11:37 AM
Agreed about the Mercs. I also hope they change back to their original forms, In addition to being able to utilize them more frequently.

bootlace
04-28-2015, 11:43 AM
I think that was the best, clearest, most eloquent explanation thus far of how Hex is and isn't a free-to-play game. Now how do you distill that down to a concise paragraph that can be somewhere on the hex site or in the landing page for a first time player in-game?

Yea I was hoping to hear him address it on his blog but this was great as well. It was interesting to hear they really haven't mapped out a path for the F2Pers or designed the campaign for them in mind at all, so I think we're going to hear the F2Pers who get discouraged easy whine quite a bit. I don't think it would have been terrible to have some kind of progression path for them early on in the PvE campaign.

Currently it's:

1) Choose Starter Deck (confusing)
2) L2P using tutorial (super boring)
3) Few card upgrades through Starter Trials (boring)
4) Arena -> Semi-Paywall at 1st boss (frustrating)

The could have made it something like:
3.5) Arena Easy mode -> easily earn bunch of PvE cards/equipment to round out the starter decks (addicting)
4) Arena Normal mode -> Grindable for even better loot (satisfying)
5) First few easy dungeons -> Paywall or Grindwall (challenging)

Reason: If the F2P are supposed to get to enjoy a 'demo' of the game as Cory put it you really need to let them be able to beat some of the content and get addicted to that get loot/upgrade deck loop. Currently the paywall (even if it is a few dollars) starts too early on in the PvE campaign (pretty much the 5th fight).

TLDR: Not asking for them to design the whole PvE campaign with F2P in mind, but giving them some breadcrumbs at the beginning to get them addicted seems like a feasible and wise move.

vickrpg
04-28-2015, 11:47 AM
I heard that they're back to traditional MMORPG character/race levelling system. Very happy about that.
I had heard about this before, but it's awesome to get "confirmation".
I'm doing a happy dance. All the other Guild master backers are free to join me.

I'm actually paying Cory to hold off releasing it at this point... ;)
HOW COULD YOU I THOUGHT YOU WERE COOL?!
;)

hex_colin
04-28-2015, 12:05 PM
Yea I was hoping to hear him address it on his blog but this was great as well. It was interesting to hear they really haven't mapped out a path for the F2Pers or designed the campaign for them in mind at all, so I think we're going to hear the F2Pers who get discouraged easy whine quite a bit. I don't think it would have been terrible to have some kind of progression path for them early on in the PvE campaign.

Currently it's:

1) Choose Starter Deck (confusing)
2) L2P using tutorial (super boring)
3) Few card upgrades through Starter Trials (boring)
4) Arena -> Semi-Paywall at 1st boss (frustrating)

The could have made it something like:
3.5) Arena Easy mode -> easily earn bunch of PvE cards/equipment to round out the starter decks (addicting)
4) Arena Normal mode -> Grindable for even better loot (satisfying)
5) First few easy dungeons -> Paywall or Grindwall (challenging)

Reason: If the F2P are supposed to get to enjoy a 'demo' of the game as Cory put it you really need to let them be able to beat some of the content and get addicted to that get loot/upgrade deck loop. Currently the paywall (even if it is a few dollars) starts too early on in the PvE campaign (pretty much the 5th fight).

TLDR: Not asking for them to design the whole PvE campaign with F2P in mind, but giving them some breadcrumbs at the beginning to get them addicted seems like a feasible and wise move.

Have you actually played against Eternal Guardian with the Starter Decks? I've beaten him multiple times with all 4 decks and very few losses. You're not routinely going to get much further than early Tier 3 with a Starter Deck, but EG is not a paywall.

bootlace
04-28-2015, 12:21 PM
Have you actually played against Eternal Guardian with the Starter Decks? I've beaten him multiple times with all 4 decks and very few losses. You're not routinely going to get much further than early Tier 3 with a Starter Deck, but EG is not a paywall.

Well you're a veteran player so that's not exactly a fair comparison. You have to put yourself in the shoes of a completely new player who's pretty much played HS, then jumped in here and done the tutorial/starter trials and then tries to take on EG. I've heard many complaints of new players struggling early on with a starter deck in Arena - some even struggling mightily with the starter trials which really surprised me as well.

Elwinz
04-28-2015, 12:29 PM
Thats the thing. TCG newbies are getting destroyed by him. Any MTg veteran can breze thorugh whole arena with starter in few tries ( i have fruends who did that)

sukebe
04-28-2015, 01:35 PM
Well you're a veteran player so that's not exactly a fair comparison. You have to put yourself in the shoes of a completely new player who's pretty much played HS, then jumped in here and done the tutorial/starter trials and then tries to take on EG. I've heard many complaints of new players struggling early on with a starter deck in Arena - some even struggling mightily with the starter trials which really surprised me as well.

If a person is new at something, why should they expect to have an easy time of it? If the game was so easy that even a complete tcg newb could breaze through it (even just the first tier) with nothing but a starter I think it would get old and boring even faster than it already will (arena is a lot of fun but even I will get bored of it eventually).

I do not want this game to become like so many other online games where they pander to the lowest common denominator. As it stands it will likely be a bit tough for someone completely new to tcg's but as long as they do not just give up at the first sign of difficulty I strongly believe they will learn quickly.

Zophie
04-28-2015, 01:45 PM
If a person is new at something, why should they expect to have an easy time of it? If the game was so easy that even a complete tcg newb could breaze through it (even just the first tier) with nothing but a starter I think it would get old and boring even faster than it already will (arena is a lot of fun but even I will get bored of it eventually).

I do not want this game to become like so many other online games where they pander to the lowest common denominator. As it stands it will likely be a bit tough for someone completely new to tcg's but as long as they do not just give up at the first sign of difficulty I strongly believe they will learn quickly.

In fairness, when the full dungeon/leveling/quests systems come out I think there will be plenty of room to pander to beginners at least a little - There will be so much content available there will definitely be opportunities to throw easy encounters at newbies to let them get their feet wet and comfortable with the systems, and then ramp up the difficulty as they progress further.

Chark
04-28-2015, 01:50 PM
We're looking at the new player onboarding experience very carefully. Some of the original systems that went into this were very medium-term solutions designed and implemented quickly. This time around we're going through and looking at the experience holistically. By the way, this is an advantage of having someone like Gameforge as a partner: they have experience with player onboarding, they take it very seriously and they have a ton of institutional knowledge that helps us make meaningful decisions.

hex_colin
04-28-2015, 01:54 PM
Well you're a veteran player so that's not exactly a fair comparison. You have to put yourself in the shoes of a completely new player who's pretty much played HS, then jumped in here and done the tutorial/starter trials and then tries to take on EG. I've heard many complaints of new players struggling early on with a starter deck in Arena - some even struggling mightily with the starter trials which really surprised me as well.

That's a different problem that no amount of money (from the player) can fix. Let's call it a "skillwall", but it's no paywall.

strylght
04-28-2015, 01:59 PM
That's a different problem that no amount of money (from the player) can fix. Let's call it a "skillwall", but it's no paywall.

Yeah, this.
If new players didn't get stuck at the first boss until they develop the skills to beat it, they'd end up stuck at the second until they develop the skills to beat it, then if that were easier, they'd moan about the third boss. Before you know it, PvE is a joke. I'm sure work is being put into the tutorial. Improving that is the answer, not pandering to new players with the PvE design.

Yoss
04-28-2015, 02:25 PM
We're looking at the new player onboarding experience very carefully. Some of the original systems that went into this were very medium-term solutions designed and implemented quickly. This time around we're going through and looking at the experience holistically. By the way, this is an advantage of having someone like Gameforge as a partner: they have experience with player onboarding, they take it very seriously and they have a ton of institutional knowledge that helps us make meaningful decisions.
Great to hear. I hope people get a chance to sample the starters before picking, for example. :)

Mokog
04-28-2015, 02:42 PM
Great to hear. I hope people get a chance to sample the starters before picking, for example. :)

When I picked my starter back in the day, I did not know what was in it. A card list interface for the starters would be nice. It is implemented on the web, so maybe at the starting experience too would be nice? :-P

CZE_Ty
04-28-2015, 07:27 PM
When I picked my starter back in the day, I did not know what was in it. A card list interface for the starters would be nice. It is implemented on the web, so maybe at the starting experience too would be nice? :-P

Hi Mokog,

When you are in the store, before you purchase a starter deck you can click the small info icon in the bottom right corner (a small yellow I in italics) to show all the cards in the starter deck. :)

Gwaer
04-28-2015, 07:34 PM
Hi Mokog,

When you are in the store, before you purchase a starter deck you can click the small info icon in the bottom right corner (a small yellow I in italics) to show all the cards in the starter deck. :)

It has been a long time since I've created a new account, is that same info available before someone selects a deck on logging in the first time?

Thoom
04-28-2015, 08:02 PM
Great to hear. I hope people get a chance to sample the starters before picking, for example. :)

Honestly, I don't see any huge reason the starter decks have to only be available for plat. I think it would be a smoother introduction to the game if completing one starter trial unlocked a new (untradeable) starter deck until you'd unlocked all of them. $10 for any of the starters from the store is a trap, and it feels like new players are punished for picking Shin'hare/Humans given how much weaker their starters are than Orc/Dwarf. All the more so since they have no way of knowing that those two are worse options unless they consult a veteran player before even making their account.

Before anybody makes the claim that introducing so many copies of the starter rares would break the economy, I'd point out that the closed beta economy didn't exactly explode when all Kickstarter tiers were granted all 4 starters instead of the originally planned "1-3 of your choice depending on tier".

Svenn
04-28-2015, 08:38 PM
Before anybody makes the claim that introducing so many copies of the starter rares would break the economy, I'd point out that the closed beta economy didn't exactly explode when all Kickstarter tiers were granted all 4 starters instead of the originally planned "1-3 of your choice depending on tier".

And I will point out that Gorefeast, a Tier 1 card, has always been only about $1 because it's available in a starter deck.

Thoom
04-28-2015, 11:02 PM
And since it's the only tier 1 playable rare in any of the starter decks (at least until Prophet of Lodegan sneaks its way back into the meta), I think that's probably OK.

strylght
04-29-2015, 03:36 AM
It has been a long time since I've created a new account, is that same info available before someone selects a deck on logging in the first time?

Its not and, to be honest, would a card list really be enough information for a new player to make an informed decision? Sure they could go outside the client to look up the details of the cards or information about how the decks play but if you're going to require that of players then I guess just don't bother with the card list; they can look that up outside the client anyway.
I would think CZE wouldn't want new players forced to go outside the client before even making their first decision within the client.
I imagine we're looking at a work in progress though.

DocX
04-29-2015, 06:07 AM
I would love to see a peek of the talent and consumable system, very exciting.

More info here (when it is finalized from a design standpoint, even if implementation is still in progress) would be amazing and greatly appreciated.


I heard that they're back to traditional MMORPG character/race levelling system. Very happy about that.


You should re-listen to it Xenavire, Yoss is right he explicitly said they've gone back to a more traditional mmo philosophy. Picking a character and leveling it with talents and all that jazz. I did genuinely like the might system when I playtested it and hope they iterate on that idea rather than scraping it entirely. But either way we're in good hands. Ben Stoll heading up the PVE design right now is amazing, the guy is legitimately a creative genius.

I'm very much looking forward to persistent leveling instead of the temporary leveling the MIGHT system appeared to be. More details (again, when the system is finalized) will be most appreciated.

Also, Gwaer, I agree I thought the MIGHT system was cool, but not as a replacement for persistent RPG leveling. Taking that idea, iterating on it in a way that compliments the champion/keep leveling would be very cool (but definitely something that shouldn't be a gating factor for feature releases).


We're looking at the new player onboarding experience very carefully. Some of the original systems that went into this were very medium-term solutions designed and implemented quickly. This time around we're going through and looking at the experience holistically. By the way, this is an advantage of having someone like Gameforge as a partner: they have experience with player onboarding, they take it very seriously and they have a ton of institutional knowledge that helps us make meaningful decisions.


Its not and, to be honest, would a card list really be enough information for a new player to make an informed decision? Sure they could go outside the client to look up the details of the cards or information about how the decks play but if you're going to require that of players then I guess just don't bother with the card list; they can look that up outside the client anyway.
I would think CZE wouldn't want new players forced to go outside the client before even making their first decision within the client.
I imagine we're looking at a work in progress though.

The "new player experience" is something that, in the current incarnation of Hex, makes it obvious this is still a Beta product. For folks like me who are TCG veterans, MMO veterans and have worked with software that can be semi-stable at times, I am fine with figuring out the workarounds and dealing with the fiddly bits that need to get sorted. But I absolutely know this is not a game I'll currently recommend to non-TCG folks (and even to TCG folks who may not be computer savvy).

There is a level of polish yet to be applied to the game and this is where I believe Gameforge will bring the majority of its value (not that running servers, handling payment processing and dealing with release management isn't valuable, but there's dozens of companies out there who can do that but don't know jack about player onboarding and retention). I would absolutely expect another year or so (at least) of work to be done specifically around the new player experience to make this as frictionless as possible. Better tutorials, more information ahead of time to better choose your deck, more integration of story into the beginners experience (perhaps a mini-campaign where you try out the various starter decks in different scenarios, get some lore told from the perspective of the various races against bosses in mid-game ("We join this Human game in progress against the dreaded Uzume. Will you be able to Inspire your way through?") to show mechanics, keywords and get a flavor of how the decks play before locking yourself in. . . .or, hell, just give away the starter decks and not let them be traded because the cards are pretty worthless from an AH perspective anyway... but make it so players don't regret the choice they made because they made it knowingly with a reasonable amount of background and there's no perceived penalty for having picked the "wrong" deck). All of that is where Gameforge's experience with previous games will inform what Hex does going forward and is a large part of the value, I believe, they will bring. They're an outside voice with tons of experience who can tell HexEnt "You're doing it wrong and here's why" and they'll actually be listened to, unlike the folks (like myself) on the forums with enough knowledge to think they know what they're talking about :-)

Elwinz
04-29-2015, 07:24 AM
We're looking at the new player onboarding experience very carefully. Some of the original systems that went into this were very medium-term solutions designed and implemented quickly. This time around we're going through and looking at the experience holistically. By the way, this is an advantage of having someone like Gameforge as a partner: they have experience with player onboarding, they take it very seriously and they have a ton of institutional knowledge that helps us make meaningful decisions.


Many poeple stay away from games with gameforge mark this days. They screwed up a lot of titles. Dont give them too much authority :)

Incindium
04-29-2015, 08:43 AM
Ha I played Skullzor the other day. I thought it probably was Cory. He had me beat in the finals then he conceded to give the packs. Also he played a nice Mimeobot copy of Starving Lich which was a combo I hadn't seen played before.

bootlace
04-29-2015, 10:28 AM
Glad to hear the new player experience is getting an overhaul, here are some thoughts:

Starter Deck:
The current problem with making players choose a starter deck is not that the decklist isn't listed or whatever. The real problem is that they have to make an irreversible choice before even stepping foot into the game. If games do this without providing detailed info it usually means that your starting choice isn't of importance or that you can simply go back and reroll, but in this case it is a very important and lasting decision.

Therefore I'd like to see perhaps a 4 part tutorial series where the player gets to experience a bit all four starter decks and THEN is asked to commit to one. It leads to a more informed decision, a decision that really feels like a fun RPG commitment, and removes the need to alt-tab out of the game to ask people which to pick before they even start playing. We see plenty of people whining that they would have picked Deck X if they knew what kind of playstyle it offered.

Starter Trial Rewards
In theory these rewards are great but I believe the execution can be better implemented for newer players. Instead of throwing 3 cards at a new player and essentially telling them to blindly put it into their deck 'just because', wouldn't it be better to ask players to choose? Each choice can have some subtext as to the benefits of adding that specific card in their deck so you would be simultaneously educating them in the process in a fun way. For example:


Congratulations on beating the first starter trial! Please choose the reward to be added to your Orc Starter Deck:

3x Burn
This ultraflexible and cheap card can be both devastating on offense as it can be on defense. You can use it to clear the way for your troops to deal damage on offense or you can use it to kill those pesky opposing attackers that you have otherwise no way of dealing with. You can even direct it straight at the face of your opponent, but only do so as a finishing move!

3x Crushing Blow
If you hate seeing your high attack Orcs get chump blocked by small puny troops, then we have great news for you: meet Crushing Blow! Not only will your low health Orcs get to stay alive in combat, but the Crush ability will ensure most of the damage will get through!

3x Ruby Aura
How does a permanent upgrade to one of your troops sound? Ruby Aura not only boosts a select troop's attack by 1 permanently but giving it Swiftstrike means that it will always deal the first blow and not take any damage back as long as it does enough to kill the blocking troop. Your bloodthirsty Orcs will surely appreciate that, won't they?

This sounds like a fun RPG-esque upgrade to me.

Arena Rewards:
Also I hope that there will be plenty of PvE CARDS that will be handed out in Arena (or whatever the first introductionary dungeon is meant to be for newer players) that are specifically designed to upgrade starter deck. Forcing totally new players to become Auction House sharks from the get-go is not a good progression path for them (especially when key pieces they need are inflated in price). PvE cards can be more freely given out without impacting the economy or the revenue model.

These are just some initial thoughts based on the current system but I guess if there's going to be significant changes then there might be better ways to do stuff I've mentioned.

Vorpal
04-29-2015, 10:41 AM
And I will point out that Gorefeast, a Tier 1 card, has always been only about $1 because it's available in a starter deck.

Hey, I guess the price went up! I remember rounding out my playset of it for 30p a pop way back in the day. Is Benjamin in the human starter? I seem to recall him also being above 30 plat.

But not much of the others, for sure. That's ok though, there are plenty of other crap set 1 rares (trial by faith, etc) that you can't offload for anything.