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poizonous
04-30-2015, 05:52 AM
Hey guys, most of you know me here as having very strong opinions and very competitive. This idea is something I have been working on for quite some time, it has made changes constantly and is still evolving. There are an abundance of free community run events out which could make this hard to start up but I am hoping that it can still find a way to work itself into the community.

The MLH could be the very first community driven Paid League format. I am not as fortunate as some of the other stream teams so I could not fund this event myself, so before you write this off and stop reading, at least hear my proposal.

32 players - 8 divisions 2 conferences

Every player plays
2 matches vs division opponents (6)
1 match vs 6 same conference opponents (6)
1 Match vs 4 out of conference opponents (4)

Pretty much the equivalent of an NFL schedule. Players would play 4 games a week and the season would take place over 5 weeks, with the 5th week being catch up time in case someone missed a game.

Playoffs will be the top 8 players in each conference, battling it out for the first ever Entrath Cup (considering actually buying a trophy and mailing it to the winner if there is enough support)

The Entry Fee would be 1000 plat, of which I will keep none of it and it will all go directly into prize support. Prize donations would be welcome and accepted graciously.

Guaranteed Prizes so far

1 Primal Pack to the top record in EACH conference

The format for this structure would be Standard, all cards legal and if Set 3 is released in the middle of the season than Set 3 would also be legal, barring any bugged interactions which would lead to specific cards being banned.

I hope you guys can tell I am passionate about this, and want to be able to run this for you guys, I have plenty of experience running League Events, but this would be my first in a TCG atmosphere. IF you guys are interested please let me know, I will be limiting the 1st of these events to NA only due to scheduling issues. I will be open to expanding this to EU in the future if it is proven successful

Also for those who dont know me, I stream under the handle kingc0bra84 and my IGN is AnomalyCobra

funktion
04-30-2015, 06:29 AM
Some notes:
-Calling the final trophy, "The first ever Shard Cup"... to put it nicely seems like not a good call. Pick a different name. Hopefully it is clear why, if not then say so.
-You want this to be successful and have strong players involved in it, but you also want there to be a somewhat high entry fee. In the future this might be possible but you're gonna have to make a name for yourself & get people to trust you / feel like that entry fee is actually worth it. You're going to have to make the prize pool attractive enough on your own so that it feels worthwhile for those players.

It is a cool idea but there are still quite a few details that need to be fleshed out I feel like. Hosting a successful tournament series is a lot of work, the only currently running series has a pretty large number of people working on it behind the scenes. Before you dive in just make sure this is something that you're committed to doing all the way.

Personally, without more info I don't think I would enter this. Though I'm at least interested.

poizonous
04-30-2015, 06:42 AM
Well considering i've streamed Hex since alpha and given away more stuff than my collection is worth currently (True story), if someone fails to trust me than I would say they have trust issues. I also have all the details worked out, I just didn't want to post them all on the thread in case people weren't interested. But thanks for the feedback Funktion, And yeah Shard Cup wasnt the name I was going for but I just winged something together, I will change that

Also, as I said I have been working on this idea for quite some time now, and knowing the paid entry would scare people away is the only reason I have held off on it for so long. I just feel like the community is getting so accustomed to free entry events, that paid events will never catch on and realistically paid events can have potential for more giveaways, just aimed at a different group

Zubrin
04-30-2015, 06:52 AM
The schedule of games, in both collegiate and professional football, are a really bad way to determine the best team in a season. The sample size is fundamentally too small and it only gives us a brief glimpse at a team's performance for any given time. The reason why the sample size is so small is really a negotiation between the players and the league; the risk of injury that ends a player's career is large enough that each game is a Russian roulette for career-ending injury that players negotiate to keep the number of games they participate in as small as possible. This contributes to stadiums being the public money pits they are (from under use) and Super Bowl winners are generally just on the good side of variance for their just over a dozen die rolls. In terms of knowing the best team, Baseball is a superior sport.

In the terms of hex, having more games would be better for knowing the best player, but for a new series, you do not want to make it seem too daunting to enter. One advantage you have over the NFL is that you have matches instead of one-shot games, which is much better. Will you be having a single deck for each player or at they free to vary their decks from match to match? Since it is a league, the latter might be better as it allows players to adapt to what they think their opponents will do.

Generally, Funktion's points are right (and more useful than my comments), but the part of having a group of people run an event is an important one. Some people can solo run an event (SilentSnake and Kroan do this), but it is a very taxing enterprise and I recommend getting more people on board when you can to increase what you can do (coverage, advertising, judging, etc.) and prevent burn out.

As an applied statistician, I felt compelled to share my dissatisfaction with American football.


The MLH could be the very first community driven paid event.

The HexTechs open was community drive and paid. You should maybe to talk to one of their organizers to figure out if they had some sense what they could have done to boost attendance. They only asked for 500 plat, so you have also a steeper hill to climb.

poizonous
04-30-2015, 06:58 AM
@Zubrin The length of the season was something I had discussed with a fellow HEX friend and it was originally slated for 53, which would in his opinion be too lengthy of a time. I was in favor of a more lengthy season, and if the majority of people are okay with it, I can totally get behind a long season. Reasons for the shorter length of games is currently, time consumed for 1 season (53 games per player could last potentially 4 - 5 months), another reason being with an initial buy in entry, it would feel like a long time before being rewarded for your efforts.

That being said, if this does pick up and majority wants a longer season I can totally make that happen.

As for the paid entrys for HexTechs, I think I am aiming at a different group of players. This isnt exactly a "Tournament", this is more of a League that I would love to make a full year type of thing.

Edited OP to fix some issues.

funktion
04-30-2015, 09:24 AM
What I was saying about trust I think was taken incorrectly (easy to understand that happening). More along the lines of trust you / your team as a tournament host. Not because people are worried about being swindled but rather that it will be worth everyone's time and be an enjoyable event. Much of marketing is about building that type of trust.

Anyhow, I want nothing more than for there to be more community run events and tournaments. I just want to see them done right so that they add to the community in the best way possible. There's potential here, I had been pretty supportive of the Hextech's paid tournament on our webcast (w/ mokog) but also had been saying that for people to want to join a paid event they have to be excited about it. Obviously the necessary level of excitement doesn't just come out of nowhere. Even more so at the early stages, the prize support is going to have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than with free tournaments. The entry fees help with this but they can't be the only thing supporting it.

BKCshah
04-30-2015, 01:53 PM
Even more so at the early stages, the prize support is going to have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than with free tournaments. The entry fees help with this but they can't be the only thing supporting it.

Gotta say that I disagree with this. The free constructed tournaments commit people for a day. This is painful for most people. Most people wouldn't play a free tournament w/o prizes obviously. However, the Rock League has shown that people will play a fair amount at random times for relatively minor win potential. Obviously some level of 'overlay' will help with getting participation, but to say that it has to be significantly better than committing 8 hours on a weekend is comparing apples to oranges. Currently constructed is basically waste of time. Maybe the fee or number of matches isn't ideal, but it has potential for people that are interested in playing 'real' constructed.

Mokog
04-30-2015, 02:11 PM
Sometimes it is a good idea to start small, learn the ins and outs of the challenges you will face before launching something as big as a league. I would suggest talking to the community event organizers and learn from their progress to avoid reinventing the wheel. They are nice people.

Zophie
04-30-2015, 02:13 PM
Baseball is a superior sport.

So true. I'll take baseball over american football any day. Also I love hockey. And bacon.

Tinfoil
04-30-2015, 02:35 PM
I like the idea of a league, but probably wouldnt put down a 1000p unless it had a really good reputation or some serious marketing.

Also, the point about doing this with a group is an important one if you want to run a big league. Smaller things can probably be run by a single person.

TOOT
04-30-2015, 02:40 PM
Super Bowl winners are generally just on the good side of variance for their just over a dozen die rolls. In terms of knowing the best team, Baseball is a superior sport.

This is 100% wrong, but that's not really relevant to the topic on hand, so won't bother discussing it.

The schedule or league setup is fine, and really inconsequential. This league or any community ran event, will live or die based on how attractive the prizes are. aka.. if Colin decides to shower the prize pool or not.

If some tournament offered 1million platinum for the top 8 finishers, and your deck had to be 56 shards and 4 spirit oracles, it would fill up.

poizonous
04-30-2015, 03:30 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys, I am totally not afraid of running this thing by myself, I have run plenty of events before outside of online gaming, this wont be that bad for me, but yes I am always looking for help so that wont be an issue. I am working on finishing up the Rules and Guidelines for the event. I will consider dropping the Fee to 500 plat for the first season to see if it works out, I could only run this for free if I get huge prize support, and I dont really want to run another "Free Community Event". I understand they exist and are popular due to nice prize support from the community, I just want to open up a new aspect of the community, much more competitive than Free tournaments. Anyway, more news to follow possibly tomorrow while I finish up everything tonight.

Zophie
04-30-2015, 03:46 PM
For the record I trust you poizonous, I've known you for a while and I think you're a good dude, but I agree with others that you'll probably want to get some more people on board to help run this. Perhaps you already have plans for this, and I look forward to hearing more details :)

RobHaven
04-30-2015, 04:06 PM
I like the idea of a league, but probably wouldnt put down a 1000p unless it had a really good reputation or some serious marketing.

Agreed. For me, it's about follow-through. I would need to know that both the organizer(s) and players are all taking it seriously enough that it'll get played to completion. It's too easy for something like this to fall off the tracks because of the commitment it requires.

poizonous
04-30-2015, 04:16 PM
Agreed. For me, it's about follow-through. I would need to know that both the organizer(s) and players are all taking it seriously enough that it'll get played to completion. It's too easy for something like this to fall off the tracks because of the commitment it requires.

This has already been taken care of, which everyone will notice when I reveal the Rules/Guidelines. Fair concern but already way ahead on the thought process

hex_colin
04-30-2015, 07:22 PM
The schedule or league setup is fine, and really inconsequential. This league or any community ran event, will live or die based on how attractive the prizes are. aka.. if Colin decides to shower the prize pool or not.

That certainly helps, but there are 2 other (and at least equally important) things in play: you have to invest now to make money in the future (i.e. juice prize pools, expecting folks to pay entry won't work... yet...) and you need to follow up on your commitments (on time, prizes delivered quickly, consistent schedule, etc.).


If some tournament offered 1million platinum for the top 8 finishers, and your deck had to be 56 shards and 4 spirit oracles, it would fill up.

Don't give me ideas! ;)

Malicus
04-30-2015, 08:19 PM
If some tournament offered 1million platinum for the top 8 finishers, and your deck had to be 56 shards and 4 spirit oracles, it would fill up.


That format sounds really interesting actually which champion do you go for? Flight - card draw - chump bots - poca seems like a good choice but actually matches up quite badly i think - do you go for a polonius or just hope to survive through life gain.

magic_gazz
04-30-2015, 08:49 PM
I like this idea.

If you can get enough people to play to make the prizes worth while im in.

Not sure how many people will be willing to put up that much for constructed though, lots of players seem scared of playing constructed.

strylght
05-01-2015, 02:38 AM
Well considering i've streamed Hex since alpha and given away more stuff than my collection is worth currently (True story), if someone fails to trust me than I would say they have trust issues.

So, telling people who don't trust you enough to hand you real money in good faith that they have psychological issues? I'm a new player. Maybe I'm not good enough yet to compete in your tournament but I've never seen you stream, never seen you give away a penny AND now you've just insulted me. Not a great start on the rep building, wouldn't you say?
You need to remember that Hex is growing and you have to appeal to more than the vanguard of backers and veteran players if you want longevity for your competition.

Well, maybe I'm wrong and there are enough old players who know you to make it feasible without putting any effort into attracting new players. But is this the kind of insular event you think will contribute to the development of Hex's community?

poizonous
05-01-2015, 03:54 AM
Wow first off I never insulted anyone, and having trust issues is not an uncommon thing, nor is it an insult. Sure, newer players dont know me but I have always been friendly and the newer players that know me, know that I am more than helpful with them starting up. This league might not be new player friendly but I dont want to encourage newer players not to participate.

vulture27
05-01-2015, 04:01 AM
That format sounds really interesting actually which champion do you go for? Flight - card draw - chump bots - poca seems like a good choice but actually matches up quite badly i think - do you go for a polonius or just hope to survive through life gain.

Bad news Malicus, the correct answer is Tetzot. And this format would be awful.

Malicus
05-01-2015, 05:48 AM
Bad news Malicus, the correct answer is Tetzot. And this format would be awful.

Of course - boring/lame - didn't go through the whole list in my head and missed that one.

strylght
05-01-2015, 07:06 AM
Wow first off I never insulted anyone, and having trust issues is not an uncommon thing, nor is it an insult. Sure, newer players dont know me but I have always been friendly and the newer players that know me, know that I am more than helpful with them starting up. This league might not be new player friendly but I dont want to encourage newer players not to participate.

Fair enough, I'm not saying you are not trustworthy or friendly to new players but blaming me for not trusting you when it is right and proper for me to not trust you without evidence of your trustworthyness IS insulting and pointless. My point is, you telling people that they have a psychological "issue" and that their rational and cautious frame of mind is wrong does not go any way towards encouraging people to trust you.

Anyway, you don't get to decide what other people are insulted by. No more than I get to decide what you may say even if it does insult me. Free speech means freedom to insult and freedom to be insulted, not freedom to choose what other people feel.
I'm not saying this site is necessarily a vehicle for free speech or that it has to be, but you still don't get to tell me what I may or may not be insulted by.

I feel I have made my point so I will do my best not to derail this thread any further.

Undomiel
05-01-2015, 07:27 AM
I find it always helps to see things from the other's point of view.

The reason I was not feeling insulted be the comment in question was because I could see from the line of argumentation that poizonous' point was that anyone who saw him give away all those things and do "community work" should know he is trustworthy.

So obviously if you have never heard of him (like me) he cannot expect you to trust him. This seems simply a matter of misunderstanding, and no insult was intended by anyone, right? :)

strylght
05-01-2015, 07:38 AM
You are welcome to your point of view and I am grateful you decided to add it to the conversation. I don't really believe that insult was intended.
But my point remains that by saying what she/he did using the wording she/he chose, she/he was blaming anyone's lack of trust on the fact that they haven't been around long enough to see her/him give away loads of shit.
How is this helpful? How is this attitude not excluding new players? How is the advice to build a reputation for being a trustworthy tournament leader before asking people for a fistful of real money bad advice?
Is diagnosing any subset of players with "issues" in an internet forum appropriate?

I don't believe that anything said was callous or mean, just silly and ill thought out.