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Svenn
05-01-2015, 11:36 AM
https://hextcg.com/hex-update-unlocking-the-myth/

Discuss!

Shift looks awesome. Prophecy is cool. I'm intrigued at allegiance, but I wish tribal decks weren't so heavily pushed.

BKCshah
05-01-2015, 11:48 AM
Allegiance using the grip as well, I hate. It seems to be meant as a powerful bonus ability benefiting from synergy in the deck. However, using the grip removes some of the potential opponent interactions. Imagine how good rallying banner would be with allegiance instead. It's hard to say w/o knowing all the allegiance abilities, but on first glance, definitely not a fan.

Prophecy isn't very interesting to me. Maybe some prophecy effects are more cool/interesting. The one showed is pretty bland.

Shift is the most unique. It's essentially a one shot inspire at basic speed. Again, it's hard to really evaluate w/o knowing more of the abilities since it's a rare that's shown which means it won't impact limited much. Looks cool, will allow for some bombs, but probably not going to be as amazing as it looks.

nicosharp
05-01-2015, 11:50 AM
mind = blown

:( "These are only a handful of the over 200 cards you’ll be able to collect and use beginning this summer."
Hope summer begins in May?

Svenn
05-01-2015, 11:52 AM
Shift is the most unique. It's essentially a one shot inspire at basic speed. Again, it's hard to really evaluate w/o knowing more of the abilities since it's a rare that's shown which means it won't impact limited much. Looks cool, will allow for some bombs, but probably not going to be as amazing as it looks.

I'm imagining a Shift: Major Socket or something... shift that to Azurefate Sorc. ;) Something like that would be awesome. I dunno, I think there are a lot of cool possibilities in there.

Basic speed kinda sucks. Would be fun to be able to respond to a burn by shifting a power to another troop.

Svenn
05-01-2015, 11:56 AM
mind = blown

:( "These are only a handful of the over 200 cards you’ll be able to collect and use beginning this summer."
Hope summer begins in May?

First day of Summer is June 21st.

funktion
05-01-2015, 11:58 AM
I am EXTREMELY hyped off of this... yeah... more than a little giddy.

Looks like it is time for me to hurry up and finish my playset. Such a slacker.

NOBLEStarshield
05-01-2015, 11:58 AM
It was beautiful wasn't it?

Thrawn
05-01-2015, 12:06 PM
Not a big fan of Prophecy since it has so much RNG built into it (did you hit your big spellshield guy, or a weenie in a draft?), but could be worse.

Shift seems likely to be a lot of fun.

funktion
05-01-2015, 12:13 PM
Think of it somewhat like inspire (especially if you're in topdeck mode). In this case they they can't just remove your inspire dude to cancel the effect and also this plays somewhat better vs extinction than inspire might.

Aradon
05-01-2015, 12:15 PM
Shift is neat. I feel like it will be mostly a limited mechanic, since after you shift it looks like you'll be left with just a vanilla creature. It looks like it'll play similarly to Noble Citizenry, in that it fills out the board and buffs up a more capable troop. The most obvious application for it, though, is moving abilities to spellshielded troops to keep them safe from removal. Ironically, it's in every color except green, but there's room for potential.

I enjoy prophecy. The common they showed looks like a powerhouse in limited. I'd like to see more examples of what they do with it before making any guesses for constructed play. I'm hoping for an efficient creature that makes the next troop you draw cantrip. Also, here's hoping for cards that affect things besides troops. Being able to modify actions or resources would be nice, too, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.

Allegiance duals seem like they'd be awesome for all my themed arena decks. I'm surprised to see elves in red and green, though. I get the passionate side of them as red, but since we hadn't seen any in any other color besides green, I mostly expected them to stay mono green. If we get any more awesome aggro cards in those colors, I'll finally make that Gas Troll deck. I wonder if they're going to have more temporary resource generating effects, like Crimson Clarity. The elves seem to like making mana.

sukebe
05-01-2015, 12:15 PM
Not a big fan of Prophecy since it has so much RNG built into it (did you hit your big spellshield guy, or a weenie in a draft?), but could be worse.

Shift seems likely to be a lot of fun.

It doesnt really matter what it hits as I can't think of very few troops that would not benefit from +2/+2. The only thing that I think matters is whether or not you ever see the card it affected in the game you play it (as you may win or lose before you even draw the affected card). Still, as long as they do not increase a cards cost by too much for having this ability I think it will be worthwhile to use, though not to build decks around.

Edit: changed can to can't :-)

Thrawn
05-01-2015, 12:17 PM
It doesnt really matter what it hits as I can think of very few troops that would not benefit from +2/+2. The only thing that I think matters is whether or not you ever see the card it affected in the game you play it (as you may win or lose before you even draw the affected card). Still, as long as they do not increase a cards cost by too much for having this ability I think it will be worthwhile to use, though not to build decks around.

It will depend what other abilities we see attached to it and how strong they are. The +2/+2 is pretty even, but I'm assuming we will see a variety of things attached to Prophecy.

sukebe
05-01-2015, 12:19 PM
It will depend what other abilities we see attached to it and how strong they are. The +2/+2 is pretty even, but I'm assuming we will see a variety of things attached to Prophecy.

I sure hope so :-) and as Aradon said I am hoping to see some Prophecy effects that affect non troop cards as well. There are a lot of things that can be done with the ability which is one of the reasons I like it :-)

Thrawn
05-01-2015, 12:21 PM
I sure hope so :-) and as Aradon said I am hoping to see some Prophecy effects that affect non troop cards as well. There are a lot of things that can be done with the ability which is one of the reasons I like it :-)

Prophecy: When this enters play, the next troop in your deck gains Coyotle Allegiance: Shift:

vickrpg
05-01-2015, 12:41 PM
Prophesy: When this enters play, the next troop in your deck gains "Draw a card" and this Prophesy ability.

Saeijou
05-01-2015, 12:46 PM
Well... who wanted to go out in summer anyway? ;)

plaguedealer
05-01-2015, 12:55 PM
Prophecy might be a good anti bounce effect, hope we see some strong comes into play abilities in the future.

Tazelbain
05-01-2015, 01:06 PM
Prophesy: When this enters play, the next troop in your deck gains every inspire ability and is renamed the The Chosen One.

LNQ
05-01-2015, 01:51 PM
Prophecy: I shall draft away all the hours I never had to begin with when Armies of Myth arrives.

vickrpg
05-01-2015, 02:02 PM
Prophecy: Prophesy is a new Hex Meme

bootlace
05-01-2015, 02:06 PM
First day of Summer is June 21st.

They said on Twitter they're not using this definition of summer.

Saeijou
05-01-2015, 02:06 PM
They said on Twitter they're not using this definition of summer.

And usually when someone is saying "summer" he isn't meaning the first day of it ;)

RCDv57
05-01-2015, 02:09 PM
I wonder if you can revert cards to double up Shift effects?
Wouldn't be that great with Filk Ape, but there's plenty of single target reversion effects.
There could also be two target reversion cards in the set.

Mejis
05-01-2015, 02:10 PM
Amazing update. Wow.

Need to give it all some more thought, but i note the new top left symbol on the spider egg.

Saeijou
05-01-2015, 02:13 PM
Amazing update. Wow.

Need to give it all some more thought, but i note the new top left symbol on the spider egg.

I guess booby traps should get that as well.

Zophie
05-01-2015, 02:14 PM
And usually when someone is saying "summer" he isn't meaning the first day of it ;)

Technically the update just says we'll be having fun with the set in summer, so they are still free to launch set 3 pre-summer, I'm sure we'll still be having fun with set 3 in the summer even if they released it tomorrow ;)

Saeijou
05-01-2015, 02:15 PM
Technically the update just says we'll be having fun with the set in summer, so they are still free to launch set 3 pre-summer, I'm sure we'll still be having fun with set 3 in the summer even if they released it tomorrow ;)

Thanks for your optimism Zophie :) You are of course right! GET IT ON GUYS!!! :D

Yewstance
05-01-2015, 02:16 PM
Alright, so initial impressions:

Firstly, in regards to what this has implied (and confirmed) about the tribes and colors thereof. Like set 1 and 2, set 3 looks to be a reasonably tribal-heavy set. Well, a very tribal-oriented set by MTG standards. Unsurprisingly, Coyotle are still Diamond/Wild/Sapphire and Vennen are presumably still Blood/Sapphire.

Necrotic were always, in the lore, intrinsically tied to the Hexing gems, despite their skill with blood magic they'd been taught (and had somehow become their primary color. Never understood that). And of course they had 3 occurrences of a 5 color subtheme which I expect to continue. With that said, I'm still a little surprised that they're remaining split between all non-wild shards in this upcoming set - I'd honestly predicted a tribe wouldn't be printed far beyond three colors when supported by keywords/tribal-lords, and therefore I was expecting them to drop blood and take up the human colors to the letter.

(The whole "brought to life by hexing Gems/sentiences-within-them and don't consider themselves undead" and "primarily blood-colored" still bothers me, admittedly)

There's still space for them to back off on the tribal themes as prevalent as they were in set 1 and 2, but no real sign of it has been given, especially with Allegiance.

The real surprise is the all-but-confirmation that elves are a Wild/Ruby tribe, but it's still possible we'll see them as a mono-wild tribe with ruby supporting non-elves. A bit like how Dwarves support Robots, but the "robot" tribe is technically far more significant, there may be some ruby cards, trolls and such, that may explicitly gain allegiance or other benefits if you're playing elves - which will still only be wild.

We were lacking a ruby tribe (aside from a splinter of Necrotic) in the new race lineup, so the previously mono-colored Elves were of course prime suspects to add in some ruby cards, as well as supporting a new tribe color combination, but it's still going to be interesting how the race dedicated most strongly to Wild magic ends up associated with ruby hexing gems.

As for the actual keywords:

Shift: Hard to say. I'm not really blown away (save for the 'permanence' of card text changes, this could actually be done in a physical card game - just tie the effect to a named counter and have the ability to move it to another creature) but nor am I unhappy. Inspire requires dedication to the creatures you play, but Shift doesn't - in many ways, it turns a creature into an optional aura-like spell, blurring the lines between creature bases and noncreature support. It's a highly practical keyword that will have a high power level on specific rares/legendaries and will presumably be a major consideration in limited as well, much like Inspire, but themed towards a more voltron-like strategy rather than a token/weenie one.

Prophecy: Probably strongest in limited, the consistency may just not be there if the format is too fast. All but confirms Coyotle's "the deck matters" theme. I'm confident, though, that almost every single occurrence of this keyword will be far more powerful in draft than most people will initially predict - games like Solforge prove the importance of incremental value and 'investing' in what you're going to draw. Coyotle colors is a good choice for this effect - Diamond with lifedrain and steadfast, Wild with spellshield, crush and skyguard, and Sapphire and Diamond both with flight.

Allegiance: Honestly, though I'm wary of being burned out by Hex's dedication to it, I normally love playing tribes in limited, and Allegiance is no real exception here. Pretty much the most boiled-down essence as to what a very general tribe keyword would be - Allegiance can be turned into anything, but generally clearly serves to turn any sub-par creature into a slightly above-par creature. At least, mostly. I'm waiting for the Coyotle Allegiant troop that cantrips if you trigger it - it's largely inevitable.

Zophie
05-01-2015, 02:17 PM
Thanks for your optimism Zophie :) You are of course right! GET IT ON GUYS!!! :D

OR maybe they mean we can't have fun until summer. All Set 3 packs opened before June 21st must be done very seriously and no fun may be had by anyone. I MEAN IT STOP HAVING FUN THIS INSTANT.

Edit: Just realized they didn't actually say anything about having fun in the summer. That kind of ruins my silly joke but we'll just pretend it said that and giggle anyway, just do it quietly please, don't want Phenteo to catch us having fun.

Mejis
05-01-2015, 02:20 PM
Technically the update just says we'll be having fun with the set in summer, so they are still free to launch set 3 pre-summer, I'm sure we'll still be having fun with set 3 in the summer even if they released it tomorrow ;)

Worth noting the official contest rules for the Set 3 Flavour Text states that the closing date is 29th of May.

Zophie
05-01-2015, 02:27 PM
Worth noting the official contest rules for the Set 3 Flavour Text states that the closing date is 29th of May.

Good catch there, though technically they could still release without flavor text and patch it in after the contest, but end of May is still easier to wait for then late June so I'll take that too :)

Mejis
05-01-2015, 02:29 PM
Good catch there, though technically they could still release without flavor text and patch it in after the contest, but end of May is still easier to wait for then late June so I'll take that too :)

Actually there's more. It says winners contacted by June 8th... Hmmmmm.https://hextcg.com/s3aomft-contest-official-rules/

Phenteo
05-01-2015, 02:33 PM
If the contest ends after the release of Set 3. We will add the flavor text into a later patch.

Mejis
05-01-2015, 02:34 PM
If the contest ends after the release of Set 3. We will add the flavor text into a later patch.

Ooo nice Phenteo. Thanks.

Can you clarify the context is for US residents only? If so, that really sucks :(

Phenteo
05-01-2015, 02:39 PM
Ooo nice Phenteo. Thanks.

Can you clarify the context is for US residents only? If so, that really sucks :(

Unfortunately, we can only run it in US/Canada (Excluding Quebec and certain States in the US where VOID). Gameforge will be running this contest in their regions/territories in the near future. So stay tuned for that.

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 02:41 PM
Yeah, considering that a lot of players come from EU, and you are partnered with Gameforge, I will be supremely upset if I can't even enter.

Although if I were exempt because of my affiliation and position as a QA Volunteer, I can accept that.


EDIT: Ninja'd, and if Gameforge is running it themselves I may be ineligible. Oh well.

Vorpal
05-01-2015, 02:44 PM
What does Prophecy even do? Or is it a key word like 'inspire' that doesn't do anything on its own?

Shift and Allegiance do have meanings on their own.

I like shift and allegiance. The more tribal decks, the better. It gets really boring when all decks you face are using the same 'best of' cards in a completely non thematic deck (like Hearthstone)

The idea of putting together a viable multi shard necrotic tribal deck makes me very happy.

Will we see new starters for set 3?

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 02:46 PM
What does Prophecy even do? Or is it a key word like 'inspire' that doesn't do anything on its own?

Shift and Allegiance do have meanings on their own.

I like shift and allegiance. The more tribal decks, the better. It gets really boring when all decks you face are using the same 'best of' cards in a completely non thematic deck (like Hearthstone)

Prophecy is very similar to inspire, as far as we can see.

LNQ
05-01-2015, 02:49 PM
Eventually they might plan to move the long descriptions of Prophecy / Inspire to tooltips and just have the cards read:

Prophecy: +2/+2
or
Inspire: +1/+1

And when you right click to look at the card, you see the description for inspire / prophecy next to the card.

hammer
05-01-2015, 02:55 PM
If the contest ends after the release of Set 3. We will add the flavor text into a later patch.

Is this likely #hype!

Mejis
05-01-2015, 03:03 PM
Unfortunately, we can only run it in US/Canada (Excluding Quebec and certain States in the US where VOID). Gameforge will be running this contest in their regions/territories in the near future. So stay tuned for that.

Doh. Might be worth stating that in the update. I'd already started writing down ideas :-/

strylght
05-01-2015, 03:30 PM
I like shift and allegiance. The more tribal decks, the better. It gets really boring when all decks you face are using the same 'best of' cards in a completely non thematic deck (like Hearthstone)

I agree with this. I love tribal decks, always loved tribal decks in MtG and love that Hex is even more tribal focused.

Zophie
05-01-2015, 03:35 PM
I love the added synergy between troop types added by Allegiance. I still kind of hope that in the future we see some of the faction based deckbuilding keywords that WoWTCG had, but this is just as cool imo!

strylght
05-01-2015, 03:35 PM
Eventually they might plan to move the long descriptions of Prophecy / Inspire to tooltips and just have the cards read:

Prophecy: +2/+2
or
Inspire: +1/+1

And when you right click to look at the card, you see the description for inspire / prophecy next to the card.

I think this would definitely be good for Inspire but it may get confusing with Prophesy if we get effects which apply to non-troop cards too as well as effects which only apply to troops like this one.
I suppose it only would if they want to do things like next troop gets -1 cost and also, on a different card, next anything or non-troop gets -1 cost. Things like that you couldn't do without having the whole text on every card.

strylght
05-01-2015, 03:38 PM
I love the added synergy between troop types added by Allegiance. I still kind of hope that in the future we see some of the faction based deckbuilding keywords that WoWTCG had, but this is just as cool imo!

Will have to look up how that worked but yeah, I agree that more tribal stuff can only be good as it just strengthens a different way of designing decks.
Sure you can still just build a great deck with all the best cards or you can build a tribal deck that makes up in synergy for what it loses by not have those great off-faction cards.

Selanius
05-01-2015, 03:48 PM
Overall I like the new keywords and the update is great!

I have to admit I'm REALLY worried about how tribal focused HEX is. Set 1 was great because while there was SOME tribal focus (dwarves and shin'hare mostly) there was a lot of room for non-tribal decks. I feel like Set 2 has significantly constrained the deck building space of limited which makes it a less interesting set to draft.

Linear themes like tribal themes make deck building much more "obvious" and limit innovation, especially in limited formats. It also makes drafting less skill intensive because it is easier to get locked into a theme where a lot of your picks are negated if you are forced to switch.

I understand that HEX wants to define the races and create tribal synergy early in its life. I'm going to be very disappointed if this tribal theme continues after the 8 races have been fleshed out.

Zophie
05-01-2015, 04:03 PM
Just wondering, would replicas of troops that had shifted powers put on them also copy any shifted powers onto the replicas, or would they just remain copies of the original without the shifted power?

Thrawn
05-01-2015, 04:10 PM
Set 3 before June 21st confirmed - https://twitter.com/HexTCG/status/594204158024024065 :D

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 04:11 PM
Just wondering, would replicas of troops that had shifted powers put on them also copy any shifted powers onto the replicas, or would they just remain copies of the original without the shifted power?

As with inspire etc, only the base. It would not copy the shifted ability.

Zophie
05-01-2015, 04:17 PM
As with inspire etc, only the base. It would not copy the shifted ability.

Ahh okay, that makes sense, thanks

Bmon
05-01-2015, 04:18 PM
I like shift and allegiance. The more tribal decks, the better. It gets really boring when all decks you face are using the same 'best of' cards in a completely non thematic deck (like Hearthstone)

On the flip side, there are those of us like Selanius and I who dislike tribal for exactly the same reason you don't like non-tribal. Heavily tribal cards like pterobot, megahulk, and electroid can be used in exactly one deck - their tribal deck. Extending tribal to all cards limits the number of decks you can make to one per tribe, and it is really boring when it feels like Hex has made your deck for you. Tribal is a popular mechanic and has its place in tribal cards and tribal sets, but I really hope Hex doesn't make every set heavily tribal themed.

Shift, prophecy, and the vennen booby trap theme seem really interesting. I'm excited to see how they fare in both limited and constructed! You can probably guess why I'm not so hyped about allegiance though. ;)

Xavon
05-01-2015, 05:17 PM
Is there a chance Prophecy will (in some instance) hit mote than one troop? Like "Prophecy - When this enters play, the next 3 troops in your deck get +0/+1."

Sparrow
05-01-2015, 05:34 PM
Great weekly update this week.

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 05:36 PM
On the flip side, there are those of us like Selanius and I who dislike tribal for exactly the same reason you don't like non-tribal. Heavily tribal cards like pterobot, megahulk, and electroid can be used in exactly one deck - their tribal deck. Extending tribal to all cards limits the number of decks you can make to one per tribe, and it is really boring when it feels like Hex has made your deck for you. Tribal is a popular mechanic and has its place in tribal cards and tribal sets, but I really hope Hex doesn't make every set heavily tribal themed.

Shift, prophecy, and the vennen booby trap theme seem really interesting. I'm excited to see how they fare in both limited and constructed! You can probably guess why I'm not so hyped about allegiance though. ;)

Shift seems versatile enough to not be considered tribal. I am honestly not worried about things feeling 'too tribal'.

MugenMusou
05-01-2015, 05:43 PM
Hmmm... I'm a bit confused with what Prophecy really does. Are we now basically able to draw a card with Prophecy anytime by intention instead of random draw?

Svenn
05-01-2015, 05:50 PM
Shift seems versatile enough to not be considered tribal. I am honestly not worried about things feeling 'too tribal'.

Personally, I already feel like things are "too tribal". That's why Allegiance worries me a little. I hope they don't push too far into tribal.

funktion
05-01-2015, 05:51 PM
Hmmm... I'm a bit confused with what Prophecy really does. Are we now basically able to draw a card with Prophecy anytime by intention instead of random draw?

I read it as:
-When the card with prophecy comes into play it triggers
-The game looks at the top card of your deck, if that is not a troop it continues moving through the deck until it finds one
-That troop gets the buff
-The placement / distribution of cards throughout the deck do not change
-Unless the deck itself is shuffled or new cards are shuffled in the next troop you draw will have that buff (though that won't necessarily be the next card you draw)

MugenMusou
05-01-2015, 05:54 PM
I read it as:
-When the card with prophecy comes into play it triggers
-The game looks at the top card of your deck, if that is not a troop it continues moving through the deck until it finds one
-That troop gets the buff
-The placement / distribution of cards throughout the deck do not change
-Unless the deck itself is shuffled or new cards are shuffled in the next troop you draw will have that buff (though that won't necessarily be the next card you draw)

Thank you funktion.

It sort of make sense. It seems like they could have not even have the keyword, and just have the When this enteres play, the next troop in your deck gets +2/+2. and do exactly same...

funktion
05-01-2015, 05:59 PM
Aurora's Dawngazer
3 cost W / D
Troop - Coyotle Cleric

Prophecy - When this enters play, the next troop in your deck transforms into Angel of Dawn.
One shot, basic: At the end of target opposing champ's next turn, draw a card.

2/2

"In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight."

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 06:02 PM
Personally, I already feel like things are "too tribal". That's why Allegiance worries me a little. I hope they don't push too far into tribal.

There have been very few powerful tribal decks, and there are plenty of non-tribal cards, or tribal cards that are easy to mix into other decks. I mean, take a look at Reese - it has plenty of applications outside of a dwarf/robot deck. I think they have made the line between tribal and non-tribal nearly invisible and that lends itself to inventive deckbuilding (and very few cards actually require that tribe to function.)

I can see why allegiance worries you, but I doubt you need to be worried. Based on the currently released cards, the only tribe at risk of being 'too tribal' is probably Vennen (due to the heavy focus on spiders, and a lesser focus on vennen entering play and messing with the opponents deck.) Especially if it is modeled after Xarlox in the arena (which, judging by the new bane cards, seems likely.)

For the rest there is no reason to worry at this point, and it seems like Vennen will be the dwarf/robot tribal equivalent for set 3.

vulture27
05-01-2015, 06:26 PM
I'm surprised there is so little discussion of the duel shard..... because its the only thing in that post I can't stop focusing on.

I have a feeling this is as close to the MtG original duel lands that HexEnt is going to print for a while, and those go for a couple hundred dollars a piece now.

Assumptions:
W/B - Shin'hare
W/D - Coyotle
W/S - Coyotle
W/R - Spoiled, Elves
B/D - Necrotic
B/S - Vennen
B/R - Orc
D/S - Human
D/R - Human or Necrotic
S/R - Dwarf

The dwarf one would easily be the most valuable in the current meta, but impossible to say after the set is actually released.

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 06:43 PM
I'm surprised there is so little discussion of the duel shard..... because its the only thing in that post I can't stop focusing on.

I have a feeling this is as close to the MtG original duel lands that HexEnt is going to print for a while, and those go for a couple hundred dollars a piece now.

Assumptions:
W/B - Shin'hare
W/D - Coyotle
W/S - Coyotle
W/R - Spoiled, Elves
B/D - Necrotic
B/S - Vennen
B/R - Orc
D/S - Human
D/R - Human or Necrotic
S/R - Dwarf

The dwarf one would easily be the most valuable in the current meta, but impossible to say after the set is actually released.

I understand everyone getting hyped about tribal resources, but I truly think that the tribal feature will drop down the popularity and price quite a lot. If these end up being valuable, it will be because of people finding flavour of the month decks (which is understandable), or preconceived notions that cause people to overprice them (much like Vampire King, Angel of Dawn, Monsuun, and Master Moss - all of which have seen some competitive play, but not enough to warrant their incredible prices.)

My guess is that the prices will be a little lower than Crackling Vortex (since each and every one of the tribal resources are guaranteed to suffer from the focus on tribes, which means they are much less versatile). I don't see them being dirt cheap however, since they do add a lot of utility to those tribes (and like I said, any flavour of the month decks will cause these cards to spike in demand.)

If these weren't tribal and could fix while giving 1/1, then I am certain they would be very valuable, but I think people are just having a kneejerk reaction for now. I know in most decks I would still run the current dual shards, either instead of (most decks) or alongside of (my tribal decks) the new tribal resources.

The upside is they are playable without allegiance as a worse vortex, so there is only a small downside to running 4 in any pseudo-tribal deck that would run vortexes. I think for that reason alone they will have a stable price.

plaguedealer
05-01-2015, 06:54 PM
I was surprised to see more rare lands myself. However, I believe these will be more pve focused then pvp. Could be wrong, but it does not have the power level of a dual land in mtgo.

Bmon
05-01-2015, 06:59 PM
Prophecy doesn't feel tribal, and I am so looking forward to combining prophecy cards with murmurs. Or broodlord exarch and murmurs. Dang, murmurs is going to be working overtime for me in the Arena :)

Xenavaire the problem isn't so much with tribal dominating the metagame, it is just that highly linear tribal cards take up design space which other decks can't use. This is mostly apparent in limited. Ruby only gets so many cards in set 2 but has to support 3 tribes. Orc and human decks probably groan every time they see an overdriver or construct foreman since those are 2 cards which they can never use but take up design space in their shard. That said, tribal is popular, and the world doesn't revolve around us tribal dissenters. I don't mind tribal themes, and HexEnt has done a fantastic job making many cards which feel tribal but can be used in non-tribal decks such as Reese, minion of Yazukan, and Sight of the Sun. I just don't want to see 4 tribes which are all as linear as dwarf/robots.

Angmar, the catch with the shards is you need a troop of a certain tribe already in play to gain the threshold which really lowers the shards' overall usefulness. For instance, the RW shard won't help you much if you draw a bunch of ruby shards and wild troops. Second, you have to be pretty heavily invested in a tribe to make use of them. The R/S dwarf shard doesn't add much to gore feast since that is mostly a humans deck.

Xenavire
05-01-2015, 07:01 PM
I was surprised to see more rare lands myself. However, I believe these will be more pve focused then pvp. Could be wrong, but it does not have the power level of a dual land in mtgo.

My thoughts exactly - in tribals it is incredibly powerful. In anything else, its a worse Vortex, or a situationally better shard of whatever.

I like to see these sorts of interesting resources in the rare slot (since they are so niche) and hope to never see true duals in the rare slot (the set 2 duals felt perfect in the uncommon slot.)

plaguedealer
05-01-2015, 07:21 PM
Regarding tribal concerns, the age of limited dwarf/robot will be over when set 3 hits. I don't care what anyone says a great dwarf/robot deck will kill anything including humans. Having allegiance for certain races will not be a problem, imo.

Rycajo
05-01-2015, 11:05 PM
Prophecy doesn't feel tribal, and I am so looking forward to combining prophecy cards with murmurs. Or broodlord exarch and murmurs. Dang, murmurs is going to be working overtime for me in the Arena :)

Xenavaire the problem isn't so much with tribal dominating the metagame, it is just that highly linear tribal cards take up design space which other decks can't use. This is mostly apparent in limited. Ruby only gets so many cards in set 2 but has to support 3 tribes. Orc and human decks probably groan every time they see an overdriver or construct foreman since those are 2 cards which they can never use but take up design space in their shard. That said, tribal is popular, and the world doesn't revolve around us tribal dissenters. I don't mind tribal themes, and HexEnt has done a fantastic job making many cards which feel tribal but can be used in non-tribal decks such as Reese, minion of Yazukan, and Sight of the Sun. I just don't want to see 4 tribes which are all as linear as dwarf/robots.

Angmar, the catch with the shards is you need a troop of a certain tribe already in play to gain the threshold which really lowers the shards' overall usefulness. For instance, the RW shard won't help you much if you draw a bunch of ruby shards and wild troops. Second, you have to be pretty heavily invested in a tribe to make use of them. The R/S dwarf shard doesn't add much to gore feast since that is mostly a humans deck.

Actually, the allegiance triggers off of the type being in play OR in the hand. So if you are holding some wild elves and only have ruby shards and the Acorn shard, you are still good to go.

Erukk
05-02-2015, 02:17 AM
I can understand the tribal concerns, but tribal is kinda a given with sets 1 through 4 since they're building up the major races of this part of Entrath, their lore, and their card selections. The time to be cautious about the overuse of tribal themes will probably be during set 5's developments, which I'm sure they've already started, when they're suppose to be moving away and branching out into other designs.

bootlace
05-02-2015, 03:34 AM
Allegiance should be interesting in draft if theyre spread out over different colors, as they should be (necrotic are 4 colors while coyotle are 3 colors). This should make for more varied decks than the current 2 color fixed nature of tribes such as dwarves, shinhare, and orc. For example with the Necrotic alone you will be able to go 6 different combinations.

Prophecy and Shift should also make drafts interesting with pretty much every troop (or maybe card if the keywords also extend to non troops) having the possibility to play out differently than the way it was originally intended with the default state of the card.

I feel the Legendary they spoiled isnt very good but its too early to say without seeing all the cards.

I hope with the pest like Shinhare and Robots out of the way there will be some more quality combat action going on instead of a lot of the chump block+ evasion tactics that became prevalent. I particularly enjoy when troops have abilities that impact the combat phase like Prairie Scout or Warrior of Andronicus so personally hoping to see more of that.

ossuary
05-02-2015, 05:02 AM
I agree about the legendary. A 1/1 that does nothing until you play some 5 cost cards (and you have to play them from your hand, not just have them enter play on your side) and then spend 8 resources on its ability is pretty crappy, and will just get killed before it ever manages to do anything impressive.

Then again, MOST of the cards they've spoiled for the previous sets ended up being junk cards once the actual set came out, they were just there to demonstrate new mechanics. A great deal of the legendaries in Hex are either complete junk or very niche... which is a shame.

Erukk
05-02-2015, 05:37 AM
Then again, MOST of the cards they've spoiled for the previous sets ended up being junk cards once the actual set came out, they were just there to demonstrate new mechanics. A great deal of the legendaries in Hex are either complete junk or very niche... which is a shame.

I've always been a bit torn on that issue. I don't like that some are a bit useless, but I do like how they're a bit niche though. If they become too powerful, or downright OP, they become staples in the current meta, and they swing the constructed deck prices into the "Let's see how much we can bleed our customers for" levels.

vulture27
05-02-2015, 05:51 AM
I understand everyone getting hyped about tribal resources, but I truly think that the tribal feature will drop down the popularity and price quite a lot. If these end up being valuable, it will be because of people finding flavour of the month decks (which is understandable), or preconceived notions that cause people to overprice them (much like Vampire King, Angel of Dawn, Monsuun, and Master Moss - all of which have seen some competitive play, but not enough to warrant their incredible prices.)

My guess is that the prices will be a little lower than Crackling Vortex (since each and every one of the tribal resources are guaranteed to suffer from the focus on tribes, which means they are much less versatile). I don't see them being dirt cheap however, since they do add a lot of utility to those tribes (and like I said, any flavour of the month decks will cause these cards to spike in demand.)

If these weren't tribal and could fix while giving 1/1, then I am certain they would be very valuable, but I think people are just having a kneejerk reaction for now. I know in most decks I would still run the current dual shards, either instead of (most decks) or alongside of (my tribal decks) the new tribal resources.

The upside is they are playable without allegiance as a worse vortex, so there is only a small downside to running 4 in any pseudo-tribal deck that would run vortexes. I think for that reason alone they will have a stable price.

I'm really not considering their use in tribal decks. All you need is to have one of the specific tribe in your starting hand with these. Later on in the game doesn't matter as much as you are likely to have your threshold base set up.

60 card deck / 7 card starting hand = 8.57
If you are playing more than 2 playsets of a tribe then on average these should be worth considering.

Reese, Mesmeric Hypnoscientist, Subterranean Spy, Fissuresmith, and Scraptech Brawler have all been used in versions of Gore Knights.

Paladin of the Necropolis, Subtle Striker, Mightnight Shepherd, Lixil, and Forgotten Monarch have all been used in various B/D/x decks.

I'm not going to bother listing all of the humans that see tier 1 play.

I very sincerely hope that after set 4 we don't see tribal again for 10+ years. That being said, they will still print cards for these tribes in most, if not all, future sets.

Aradon
05-02-2015, 06:56 AM
I think the best thing to say for tribal-fixing lands is that they can be used in deck building so that they're never dead. If your two-threshold cards are of the correct trait type, then you'll have it in hand when you draw your dual land and be able to play it right away. If you don't have it in hand, then the dual land still provides 1/1 immediately, and you didn't actually need the threshold fixing (yet). For many decks, you'll either get the tribal ability or not need it at the time. It also doesn't hurt to hang on to the land a little, in order to give yourself time to draw into a tribal enabler. Since it's 1/1, you don't need to get it out of the way early like you should with the current duals.

Good card, I can see these going for $10-15.

Bmon
05-02-2015, 08:39 AM
Oh wow allegiance works with cards in your hand. You are right Angmar, those fixing lands are going to be much better than I thought. For instance, I assumed you had to wait for turns 4-6 for a dwarf to untunnel to use the RS shard in gore knights.

ossuary
05-02-2015, 09:08 AM
If you look at the Acorn's allegiance options closely, you can see once again that CZE is being *extremely* clever with their design space. What's the problem with drawing a shard late in the game? It doesn't do anything for you. Well, with these, that's no longer true. Not only does it give you your 1/1 early in the game, it gives you fixing in the right deck. But on top of that, if you draw it LATE game, it still does something for you. Sure, it's only 3 health in this case, but that's a heck of a lot better than doing nothing at all for the turn, and that couple of extra health could be the difference between life and death in a close game, edging out a normal shard just that little bit to make it worth having in the deck, and further rewarding the player who commit themselves to the tribe.

ShaolinRaven
05-02-2015, 09:14 AM
Interesting ideas.

Prophecy: I hope they expand Prophecy to do some weird and fun stuff that can add things to resources, actions, constants, non-troop artifacts. Basically any card could be up for a Prophecy target eventually. With it being Coyotle focused I would expect either very few or no artifact interactions yet.

Shift: I could see Shift/Revert decks becoming something to watch out for depending on the shift abilities. So you are "refreshing" your shift cards so they can apply to multiple troops or one troop can get some big bonuses.

Allegiance: As others have said I'm not as fond of this one on the premise that is seems the most limited, but it depends on what they do with it. It could still be worth throwing some Allegiance cards into your deck if you are already running a decent number of those troop types, but I would expect it to see a lot more play in PvE then PvP.

Erukk
05-02-2015, 09:19 AM
Another thing I like about allegiance is that it gives knowledgeable players a bit of forewarning early in the game if they know the type of deck their opponent is running. If your opponent just played a dwarf allegiance card with no dwarves in play, but you know that type of decks rolls only one or two types of dwarves, you get a good idea of what might be lurking in his hand.

LunaPark
05-02-2015, 09:39 AM
how come i dont see this information on the the hex main page.

Svenn
05-02-2015, 09:49 AM
how come i dont see this information on the the hex main page.

It's there. Try and do a forced refresh (Ctrl + F5).

Vorpal
05-02-2015, 11:06 AM
Overall I like the new keywords and the update is great!

I have to admit I'm REALLY worried about how tribal focused HEX is. Set 1 was great because while there was SOME tribal focus (dwarves and shin'hare mostly) there was a lot of room for non-tribal decks.

I don't feel like any top tier tribal decks really existed in set 1. Even now, we certainly don't have top tier competitive tribal decks for every faction.


I feel like Set 2 has significantly constrained the deck building space of limited which makes it a less interesting set to draft.

More tribal cards makes the set more interesting to draft. Instead of cards having a constant value, tribal cards go up in value when you have more of them. Instead of everyone drafting the same cards all the time, you will end up with different decks.


Linear themes like tribal themes make deck building much more "obvious" and limit innovation, especially in limited formats. It also makes drafting less skill intensive because it is easier to get locked into a theme where a lot of your picks are negated if you are forced to switch.

I understand that HEX wants to define the races and create tribal synergy early in its life. I'm going to be very disappointed if this tribal theme continues after the 8 races have been fleshed out.

I actually think tribal decks make deck building much more interesting. Absent tribal limitations, you just make a deck by scooping in all of the best cards. If some cards are better only in the correct tribal deck - now there are trade offs and decisions to be made. Hearthstone was famous for all decks basically being built off the back of the same cards - they have since introduced a couple tribes which has really shaken up their deck building there. But before then, hearthstone felt SO bland and samey. Set 1 Hex drafting was starting to feel the same way.

Imagine if Zodiac Shaman had had some sort of nice tribal perk to make him actually work in a coyotle deck or maybe misfortune did something with zombies so they weren't just always auto skip in just about every situation.

And obviously, drafting a good tribal deck requires a lot more skill than drafting a good non tribal deck. You have to carefully weigh when it is appropriate to pursue a tribal route and not only worry if someone else is in your color, but also going after your tribe, and have back up plans in case it doesn't pan out - maybe you go after the less powerful tribal cards that don't lose quite as much of their punch if you can't assemble enough other pieces. There is a lot more to consider than "Boulder brute? TAKE"


Extending tribal to all cards limits the number of decks you can make to one per tribe, and it is really boring when it feels like Hex has made your deck for you.

This is in no way remotely true. You can make a ruby dwarf deck, a sapphire dwarf deck, and at least three different types of ruby/sapphire dwarf decks. We are very close I feel to being able to make a tribal ruby orc deck, a tribal blood orc deck, and a tribal ruby/blood orc deck. Besides, if you are worried about there being only one type of tribal deck, you should support more tribal cards to add more variety. I want to make a zombie tribal deck but I don't feel the support is there for it yet. More zombie cards please :)

Vorpal
05-02-2015, 11:17 AM
I agree about the legendary. A 1/1 that does nothing until you play some 5 cost cards (and you have to play them from your hand, not just have them enter play on your side) and then spend 8 resources on its ability is pretty crappy, and will just get killed before it ever manages to do anything impressive.

Then again, MOST of the cards they've spoiled for the previous sets ended up being junk cards once the actual set came out, they were just there to demonstrate new mechanics. A great deal of the legendaries in Hex are either complete junk or very niche... which is a shame.

That's actually perfect, IMO. It would be bad if every legendary was a 'must have' for your deck archetype. People cried incessantly over just angel of dawn.

sukebe
05-02-2015, 11:40 AM
If you look at the Acorn's allegiance options closely, you can see once again that CZE is being *extremely* clever with their design space. What's the problem with drawing a shard late in the game? It doesn't do anything for you. Well, with these, that's no longer true. Not only does it give you your 1/1 early in the game, it gives you fixing in the right deck. But on top of that, if you draw it LATE game, it still does something for you. Sure, it's only 3 health in this case, but that's a heck of a lot better than doing nothing at all for the turn, and that couple of extra health could be the difference between life and death in a close game, edging out a normal shard just that little bit to make it worth having in the deck, and further rewarding the player who commit themselves to the tribe.

It also gets +2/+2 each time you cast a 5+ cost card and keeps those pluses even if you use its power (which I honestly think will not end up being used all that often). If you are already making a ramp deck this would not be a terrible early drop. might not be the best early drop either but it is good to have options.

Steelio
05-02-2015, 11:43 AM
IMO, having cards which have the same kind of power level or impact as AoD is perfectly fine. The problem is that the card doesn't really depend on anything other than simply having one diamond threshold. To clarify, it has an effect which is pretty much irrelevant to the game state. If there was a clause which stated that if you had 1 diamond threshold and less than 10 health then you played AoD for free, or if the threshold requirement was two and not one, the card would be a lot more acceptable. Even having a requirement of 0/2 and a diamond threshold would be better, simply because their effect makes them an autoinclude in most diamond decks, and there isn't really a counterplay for some colours [thinking wild/ruby here.] I do like the card and I run it, but it is quite OP.


That's actually perfect, IMO. It would be bad if every legendary was a 'must have' for your deck archetype. People cried incessantly over just angel of dawn.

Seraph_Hex
05-02-2015, 12:30 PM
I don't feel like any top tier tribal decks really existed in set 1. Even now, we certainly don't have top tier competitive tribal decks for every faction.

If I were a Robot or Dwarf I would be offended by this. ;)

whiteyzz
05-02-2015, 12:43 PM
Right now how I see it is.

Shift, Especially the card they showed Marrow mage could push out some great blue/green, blue/red (non dwarf) decks, some great draw. Heck he has a few cards he could attach to now.

Red:War Machinist, Kindling Swarn (he does more damage based off spells, and you draw more based off how much you pump him up), Arena Regular

Green: Jadiim

Black: Claw of the Mountain God

Artifact: Droo's Walker / Malfunctioning War Bot

Prophecy seems like a good effect in theory but it can also be garbage but I'm going to guess here are a rare or a legendary Prophecy

Blue Rare: The next card you has draw a card.
Blue Legendary: The next spell you draw has, copy this spell and put it into your hand (or play it)

Green Rare: The next creature you draw costs -2 less
Green Legendary: The next card you draw, gain resources based off it's resource cost (land = 0, X = 0). These extra resources cant be used to play this spell

White Rare: The next creature you draw has life drain and +2/+2
White Legendary: The next creature you draw gets +1/+1, and Prophecy: the next creature you draw get's +1/+1
The most you could honestly stacked this if you tried would be pretty hard but Replicators Gambit+Mimic+Mimeobot would make it take too long to drop but with a low cost it would act as a half decent permant +1/+1 to all your creatures.

The thing im most curious about is that resource card... are we going to see red elfs? (Guess green/red isn't a colour combo that has been done yet in Hex, I mean it's possible to do but there is no Racial. My honest question is how good are these Racials resources.

Will the 2 mana races get?

x/x/+Effect

Then the 3 mana races get

x/x/x

and the necrotic one would have to be 4 charges but no resource for that turn or it would be a pretty impressive fucking land

My guess for the lands will be

Human
Red/Blue/White
1/1

Necrotic
Red/Blue/White/Black
0/1
Gain a Charge

Dwarf
Blue/Red/ Create a 1/1 Worker bot (with defender)
1/1
Gain a Charge

Shin Hare
Green / Black / Create two 0/1 Shinhares
1/1
Gain a Charge

Orc
Red/Black/deal 2 damage
1/1
Gain a Charge

Vennen
Black/Blue/Target Player mills the top 2-3 cards of the deck or discard a random card
1/1
Gain a Charge

Coyote
Green/White/Blue
1/1

Bmon
05-02-2015, 02:54 PM
Also likely for design balance reasons they will make 10 rare dual shards with one for each color combination. For instance:

RS: Dwarf
RD: Human or Necrotic
RW: Elf
RB: Orc
SD: Humans
SW: Coyotle
SB: Vennen
DW: Coyotle
DB: Necrotic
BW: Shin'hare

LunaPark
05-02-2015, 04:52 PM
thx Svenn, ctrl-f5 worked

Rycajo
05-02-2015, 10:33 PM
Orc
Red/Black/deal 2 damage
1/1
Gain a Charge

That would be amazing. Can you even imagine the head games knowing your opponent is playing Orc, has 0 temporary resources, and is attacking into bad trades? ...bad trades unless they can still do 2 damage after the fact...

Even doing 1 damage, this would be a very good rare. And well worth running in Orc tribal. I'd like to see something like this, though I'm not sure if doing 1 damage is better or worse than 3 life (like the Acorn).

Erukk
05-03-2015, 01:37 AM
That would be amazing. Can you even imagine the head games knowing your opponent is playing Orc, has 0 temporary resources, and is attacking into bad trades? ...bad trades unless they can still do 2 damage after the fact...

Even doing 1 damage, this would be a very good rare. And well worth running in Orc tribal. I'd like to see something like this, though I'm not sure if doing 1 damage is better or worse than 3 life (like the Acorn).

I like the Humans, Necrotic, and Coyote's ideas, but the others, especially the Orc's, might be considered a bit too strong or just downright OP though. We have to remember that these are resource effects, and unless I missed something or they make it so these effects go on stack in the future, that means these would be 0 cost effects that we can't respond too at all.

I still like the idea of each one getting a unique effect corresponding to each tribe, but it's a delicate balancing act on the power scale for these resource cards. "Gain 3 Life" might just be a safe baseline.

bootlace
05-03-2015, 03:59 AM
It will be 1 damage to champion if anything.

ossuary
05-03-2015, 04:09 AM
I could actually see it being 1 damage to target troop, since making it target would make the resolution go on the chain (you wouldn't be able to counter it since it's a resource, but you would be able to use something to save the troop). 2 damage to anything is definitely WAY too strong for a resource effect, though.

RCDv57
05-03-2015, 03:08 PM
I could actually see it being 1 damage to target troop, since making it target would make the resolution go on the chain (you wouldn't be able to counter it since it's a resource, but you would be able to use something to save the troop). 2 damage to anything is definitely WAY too strong for a resource effect, though.

What if it was random damage?

Rycajo
05-04-2015, 10:03 AM
What if it was random damage?

Still very good. As we saw with the change to the major gem, random damage is still pretty powerful.

I could see it being 2 damage to champion, as that would still help the Orc player to finish off a weakened opponent. And two damage to champion much more comparable to 3 health gain. Neither affects the board directly.

Of course, if we see shards that create troops/constants/anything then no reason to say we couldn't see a shard that gives you direct, targeted damage.

Erukk
05-05-2015, 02:25 AM
I could see it being 2 damage to champion, as that would still help the Orc player to finish off a weakened opponent. And two damage to champion much more comparable to 3 health gain. Neither affects the board directly.


I believe the saying goes, "Gaining health might be a resource, but damage is a win condition."

If orcs were somehow able to get a "Deal 2 damage to target champion" on their potential resource, that means it's possibly for their decks to deal up to 8 damage, nearly half their opponents total life, with a good draw by simply playing their resources. That, plus orcs usually being an aggro tribe, is just too OP.

I'd rather it be something like, "Target troop can't block this turn". It isn't as deadly as DD, but it still has the potential to break up a stalled late game.