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View Full Version : PvP Set Release - Coincide with PvE Equipment Release



nicosharp
05-06-2015, 02:52 PM
The question is simple, but the answer may be complex. This is one thing I don't think was ever mentioned or addressed regarding the long-term vision of HEX.

When a new PvP set is released, in the future, will PvE Equipment release with the new PvP cards right away?

Will we ever see a day where a PvP set content is immediately influencing PvE content releases as well?

How will PvE equipment for new PvP sets be filtered into the PvE loot tables, if and when ultimately no new PvE zones/content are released? Will new PvE equipment be stacked on-top of old loot tables, and will old content need to be replayed to acquire it, or will there be other ways to release the future PvE equipment for new sets into the economy?

It would be great to hear about some design ideas in this space in a future update. The PvE Equipment roll-out for future PvP sets is something I've been thinking about for a long time, and I would presume its a very nice way to have shared interest in PvP set releases by both sides of the playerbase (PvP and PvE focused playerbase)

chromus
05-06-2015, 03:26 PM
It' be nice to get some official answers on these but my guesses are:


When a new PvP set is released, in the future, will PvE Equipment release with the new PvP cards right away?
No, at least not all of it. Cory will not want to delay a Set release due to equipment not having made it in time. They might release some easy-to-code equipment along with the new PvP Sets but I would guess not more than 1/4 of the number of cards (there are currently 172 equips and 615 non-promo cards in the game).


How will PvE equipment for new PvP sets be filtered into the PvE loot tables, if and when ultimately no new PvE zones/content are released?
There should always be new PvE content in the works.


Will new PvE equipment be stacked on-top of old loot tables, and will old content need to be replayed to acquire it, or will there be other ways to release the future PvE equipment for new sets into the economy?
I reckon new PvE equipment will be stacked on top of old loot tables in order to increase replayability/relevance of old PvE content. With that said, I doubt they will force players to have to play a specific piece of old content in order to acquire old loot. I think it makes sense to make everything have a chance to drop everywhere (or at least in some kind of rotation cycle similar to how PvP items work. Meaning for example, Equipment for Set 1-2-3 drop from Arena, Dungeon 1, and Dungeon 2).

Overall, I think PvE Equipment will be released in batches fairly independent of the PvP Set releases. I'm basing this largely on the current 'We've released all equipment, that work as intended, we've had time to code into the game' situation. For the moment, I think this is the right way to proceed as when it comes to releases, omitting any broken Equipment is perfectly OK while omitting a single card from a PvP Set release would just not work due to obvious reasons.

Yoss
05-06-2015, 03:56 PM
I agree this would be a fun topic for a weekly update. Seems like we hardly get any design notes any more. :(

Would be sweet to have something like this:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794/legacy-of-the-void-multiplayer-development-update-december-17-2014-12-17-2014

eimerian
05-07-2015, 01:04 AM
When a new PvP set is released, in the future, will PvE Equipment release with the new PvP cards right away?
I expect that this is their ultimate goal and will be the case, once they have established a working routine for set releases.

KingGabriel
05-07-2015, 09:38 AM
I expect that this is their ultimate goal and will be the case, once they have established a working routine for set releases.
Why would it not be based on new dungeons emerging instead?

nicosharp
05-07-2015, 10:01 AM
Why would it not be based on new dungeons emerging instead?

My only thought, from a financial standpoint (and it doesn't really matter either way, as both options drive financial impact) is that if you hype both PvE and PvP for a new PvP set release, you make money on both ends.

Ideally new PvP cards will have new PvE equipment obtainable when those PvP cards are released, so not only are you excited about collecting the card for PvP decks, but get excited about collecting them for your PvE decks as well.

KingGabriel
05-07-2015, 12:06 PM
My only thought, from a financial standpoint (and it doesn't really matter either way, as both options drive financial impact) is that if you hype both PvE and PvP for a new PvP set release, you make money on both ends.

Ideally new PvP cards will have new PvE equipment obtainable when those PvP cards are released, so not only are you excited about collecting the card for PvP decks, but get excited about collecting them for your PvE decks as well.
Why not both? More things to get excited around if it's segmented. Also you havent suggested a way in the way you're suggesting as to how they would be handed out. Added to pre-existing loot tables and having people complain how hard it is to get the one piece they need?

nicosharp
05-07-2015, 12:07 PM
This thread wasn't about making suggestions. It was about finding out intentions.

KingGabriel
05-07-2015, 12:09 PM
This thread wasn't about making suggestions. It was about finding out intentions.
Considering the current policy seems to be adding the equipment on a dungeon-by-dungeon basis, those are suggestions, no?

nicosharp
05-07-2015, 12:13 PM
Considering the current policy seems to be adding the equipment on a dungeon-by-dungeon basis, those are suggestions, no?
I don't think any "policy" is in place.
A lot of the game concerning current roll-out has been based on what is ready. I don't see that ever changing.
This is about development intent down the road, regarding PvE content tied to specific new PvP cards.

Again, I thought it was clear, but apparently not - These are not suggestions.

Xenavire
05-07-2015, 01:36 PM
I don't think any "policy" is in place.
A lot of the game concerning current roll-out has been based on what is ready. I don't see that ever changing.
This is about development intent down the road, regarding PvE content tied to specific new PvP cards.

Again, I thought it was clear, but apparently not - These are not suggestions.

As far as I am aware, equipment will land as dungeons and raids are ready (with chests holding equips for that set being about the only ones tied to set releases.)

This is the 'intent' as I currently understand it, and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest they will do anything differently.

It does make sense, business wise - look at the explosion in popularity of some cards when arena landed, just because of the equipment. War Machinist especially is one of the most demanded uncommons in the game right now because of the timing of arena, yet it was barely worth anything beforehand (due largely to the amount of time it had been in circulation.) That means dropping equipment alongside of dungeons will reinvigorate interest in cards (much like the release of a set has people clamouring to get valuable cards) and having a good cycle of content means that when cards would normally start looking dull and boring, a dungeon or two drops and there is a flurry of activity that will coast the game through what would normally be a lull.

I think that holding off on some equipment and releasing it later is probably the best way to keep people from burning out on sets, and I think it makes sense from a development standpoint too, so I would be surprised if they decide it isn't the right way to go.

sukebe
05-07-2015, 02:22 PM
maybe I am just remembering wrong but didn't they say at one point that a lot of pvp card equipment will be found in the chests that are dropped from packs? It has been a while since I thought I heard this though so it may have been warped in my memory :-)

Putting some of the pvp equipment into pve dungeons isn't a bad idea as it gets people to want to buy those cards but I think having the majority of pvp equipment be found in chests from packs makes a lot of sense.

Xenavire
05-07-2015, 02:28 PM
maybe I am just remembering wrong but didn't they say at one point that a lot of pvp card equipment will be found in the chests that are dropped from packs? It has been a while since I thought I heard this though so it may have been warped in my memory :-)

Putting some of the pvp equipment into pve dungeons isn't a bad idea as it gets people to want to buy those cards but I think having the majority of pvp equipment be found in chests from packs makes a lot of sense.

Some equipment will absolutely drop from chests, but I doubt that anyone would consider it a majority. Thinking about this quickly, even half the potential equips for set 1 would give us close to 300 equipment dropping from chests (which is an insane number) and it wouldn't leave a whole lot to drop in dungeons.

I think we might be looking at a 25% (or less) chunk of the equipment in chests, and the rest in dungeons.

Tazelbain
05-07-2015, 02:29 PM
That's definitely one way to do it. But another perfectly valid option is spread the equipment out as new sets and PvP content comes out to maintain replayability. Hell, I'd probably randomize the loot tables for PvE content(special bosses and WoF excluded) once a quarter, but I am crazy like that.

plaguedealer
05-07-2015, 02:33 PM
Hopefully a new set will mean new dungeons/raids in the somewhat near future to acquire those items. I really don't want them to just expand the loot table of a preexisting dungeon.

Xenavire
05-07-2015, 02:42 PM
Hopefully a new set will mean new dungeons/raids in the somewhat near future to acquire those items. I really don't want them to just expand the loot table of a preexisting dungeon.

Yeah, I see it as old content will still drop the same items, while a new set launches, then about 2 months later new dungeons and raids drop with a whole host of new drops - driving both progression and interest. A win for PvP players because any surplus of cards they have spikes in value (plus they can get gold a lot easier) and a plus for PvE players because they have new commodoties, as well as new ways to gear up for old, difficult content.:p

Tazelbain
05-07-2015, 02:50 PM
Feels like a recipe for old content to be completely ignored.

nicosharp
05-07-2015, 02:53 PM
Feels like a recipe for old content to be completely ignored.
Luckily, we are 2+ years from this being an issue, and 2+ years likely from this thread being addressed :)

Xenavire
05-07-2015, 03:25 PM
Feels like a recipe for old content to be completely ignored.

They have mentioned that they would like to slowly remove outdated content. I hope they don't, because that was one of the things I liked about WoW (sure they removed or updated a few things years later, but there was plenty you could go back to) and being a TCG, more options makes for a lot more fun, and I could see myself going back to specific dungeons years later with new decks just for fun.

strylght
05-07-2015, 03:43 PM
They have mentioned that they would like to slowly remove outdated content. I hope they don't, because that was one of the things I liked about WoW (sure they removed or updated a few things years later, but there was plenty you could go back to) and being a TCG, more options makes for a lot more fun, and I could see myself going back to specific dungeons years later with new decks just for fun.

I really hope that they wouldn't remove old dungeons. Playing new cards/decks against old dungeons is still new content as far as I'm concerned, that's the beauty of a TCG! Who cares if the loot is useless?

nicosharp
05-07-2015, 03:47 PM
I really hope that they wouldn't remove old dungeons. Playing new cards/decks against old dungeons is still new content as far as I'm concerned, that's the beauty of a MMO! Who cares if the loot is useless?

Fixed ^ :)

strylght
05-07-2015, 04:06 PM
I really hope that they wouldn't remove old dungeons. Playing new cards/decks against old dungeons is still new content as far as I'm concerned, that's the beauty of a MMOTCG! Who cares if the loot is useless?
Fixed ^ :)

Re-fixed. ;)

Turtlewing
05-08-2015, 12:44 PM
Some equipment will absolutely drop from chests, but I doubt that anyone would consider it a majority. Thinking about this quickly, even half the potential equips for set 1 would give us close to 300 equipment dropping from chests (which is an insane number) and it wouldn't leave a whole lot to drop in dungeons.

I think we might be looking at a 25% (or less) chunk of the equipment in chests, and the rest in dungeons.

An item being available in chests doesn't preclude the same item also being available in dungeons/raids. Nor does it have to be likely to get a specific piece of equipment via chests.

It seems to me chests are the most obvious place to distribute equipment for PvP cards. Whether they are the only place to get those equipment items is an unrelated matter.

Xenavire
05-08-2015, 01:01 PM
An item being available in chests doesn't preclude the same item also being available in dungeons/raids. Nor does it have to be likely to get a specific piece of equipment via chests.

It seems to me chests are the most obvious place to distribute equipment for PvP cards. Whether they are the only place to get those equipment items is an unrelated matter.

Actually, having too many faucets of any given item just increases the odds of it entering the economy, and as a result devalues it. I very much doubt that there will be any crossover at all - maybe between individual dungeons, but not chests/dungeons.

Tazelbain
05-08-2015, 01:36 PM
Not really, five dudes with squirt guns is no match for one dude with a fire hose. But as it right now, volume coming the arena is so great, it drown out the volume coming out the chests.

Makes me think the stuff coming out of chests is going to be really valuable. If that crazy extinction equipment is legendary chest, its price could dwarf aqua mask.

Xenavire
05-08-2015, 01:39 PM
Not really, five dudes with squirt guns is no match for one dude with a fire hose. But as it right now, volume coming the arena is so great, it drown out the volume coming out the chests.

Makes me think the stuff coming out of chests is going to be really valuable. If that crazy extinction equipment is legendary chest, its price could dwarf aqua mask.

And that is what people are hoping for - a reason to actually roll chests for upgrades. If legendary/primal chests have chase items, the devs have done their jobs.

Just for the love of god don't make the sleeves too freaking rare. I get whipped enough by RNG already.

Yoss
05-08-2015, 01:58 PM
0.01% drop rate on Primal sleeves confirmed. ;)