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Drake6k
05-10-2015, 10:56 PM
I was looking at a City Skylines (great game) mod site and found some elaborate HEX advertising. Make sure you don't have any adblock stuff on. This seems pretty exciting. Has anyone else started a thread about this? What do you guys think of the ads, their timing, etc? Find any others?

Image: http://i.imgur.com/tVhshnY.jpg
Yeah, they wrapped up the whole site and even had a video ad popup.

Link http://www.skylinescity.com/

Khazrakh
05-10-2015, 11:21 PM
Mh, I have mixed feelings on the matter.
Personally I'd love to see Hex go big any day and I'm fully convinced that it's only a matter of time before this is going to happen.
Still I feel like it's way too early to start the hype train around the net.
We'd still need some crucial improvements to the game:

- The whole new player experience needs to be redone.
This includes the way you pick your starter deck, the tutorial and the starter trials.

- There needs to be more progression without using the auction house.
A lot of new players will play their first games, get beaten up by the Eternal Guardian several times, notice that they didn't get any new cards to improve their deck and never look back.

- There needs to be a better introduction to PvP and drafting especially. Most F2P players will have no experience with drafting and will probably get stomped once they try.

As Cory said before - you can only ever make a first impression once and taking everything into account - that first impression could still be a lot better.

strylght
05-11-2015, 05:48 AM
Mh, I have mixed feelings on the matter.
Personally I'd love to see Hex go big any day and I'm fully convinced that it's only a matter of time before this is going to happen.
Still I feel like it's way too early to start the hype train around the net.
We'd still need some crucial improvements to the game:

- The whole new player experience needs to be redone.
This includes the way you pick your starter deck, the tutorial and the starter trials.

- There needs to be more progression without using the auction house.
A lot of new players will play their first games, get beaten up by the Eternal Guardian several times, notice that they didn't get any new cards to improve their deck and never look back.

- There needs to be a better introduction to PvP and drafting especially. Most F2P players will have no experience with drafting and will probably get stomped once they try.

As Cory said before - you can only ever make a first impression once and taking everything into account - that first impression could still be a lot better.

I'm fairly new and had few issues getting into the game itself or even drafting BUT despite this I agree almost entirely with the sentiment of this post. The new player experience needs serious work before its first impression on a lot of people is wasted.
Look at Scrolls and its track record of retaining players and you'll see that, how ever many people you entice into giving the game a go, near enough that many could bounce right off it.

Thrawn
05-11-2015, 06:58 AM
As Cory said before - you can only ever make a first impression once and taking everything into account - that first impression could still be a lot better.

The outside advertising of the 100k tournament seems a bit off too considering how little we know about it. Someone reads about a big money tournament, but won't be able to find any info in regards to the format, when it starts, what the prize breakdown is, etc. etc. etc.

Steelio
05-11-2015, 07:28 AM
Pretty much agree, couple points:

1. Completing the starter challenges should reward another starter deck of a different type.

2. I named my account 'Rabbiton', because of the 'Lord of...' prefix. So that needs some kind of work, because I found it bloody confusing.

3. The starter decks should just hands down be better, and it should be possible to run the arena with them consistently [maybe to 15-3 or such... but again it should be possible to clear the arena with them.]

4. MTGO has a phantom drafting system for new players. So that might be worth considering.


Mh, I have mixed feelings on the matter.
Personally I'd love to see Hex go big any day and I'm fully convinced that it's only a matter of time before this is going to happen.
Still I feel like it's way too early to start the hype train around the net.
We'd still need some crucial improvements to the game:

- The whole new player experience needs to be redone.
This includes the way you pick your starter deck, the tutorial and the starter trials.

- There needs to be more progression without using the auction house.
A lot of new players will play their first games, get beaten up by the Eternal Guardian several times, notice that they didn't get any new cards to improve their deck and never look back.

- There needs to be a better introduction to PvP and drafting especially. Most F2P players will have no experience with drafting and will probably get stomped once they try.

As Cory said before - you can only ever make a first impression once and taking everything into account - that first impression could still be a lot better.

Gwaer
05-11-2015, 07:49 AM
Pretty much agree, couple points:

1. Completing the starter challenges should reward another starter deck of a different type.

3. The starter decks should just hands down be better, and it should be possible to run the arena with them consistently [maybe to 15-3 or such... but again it should be possible to clear the arena with them.]



I completely and totally absolutely unreservedly disagree with both of these.

I mean, I can let the first one slide a little easier, more untradeable starter decks are probably okay, but I'd rather see letting people trade out their untradeable cards for some different ones at various times(not any time), also letting people test with the decks before picking.

but your point 3, that a starter should be able to beat the arena with no changes, I see nothing positive about that. It's entirely backwards. A starter should be able to get through tier 1 sometimes, maybe tier 2 on a perfect run, but no further. It should be a starter, not a finisher, they should be able to get through tier 1 somewhat reliably. But anything else should really be extremely unlikely. They can use the rewards from the first tier to improve the deck to more reliably get through it and the second, then use those rewards and so on. You shouldn't be able to beat the only piece of pve content out of the box.

Yoss
05-11-2015, 08:26 AM
+1 to Gwaer

israel.kendall
05-11-2015, 08:34 AM
There have been ads around for a while. But I personally think it's a waste of money to ignore SEO and concentrate on paid ads.

hex_colin
05-11-2015, 08:42 AM
but your point 3, that a starter should be able to beat the arena with no changes, I see nothing positive about that. It's entirely backwards. A starter should be able to get through tier 1 sometimes, maybe tier 2 on a perfect run, but no further. It should be a starter, not a finisher, they should be able to get through tier 1 somewhat reliably. But anything else should really be extremely unlikely. They can use the rewards from the first tier to improve the deck to more reliably get through it and the second, then use those rewards and so on. You shouldn't be able to beat the only piece of pve content out of the box.

+1


There have been ads around for a while. But I personally think it's a waste of money to ignore SEO and concentrate on paid ads.

You have no idea what their ROI on the ads are and/or what their future website plans are.

israel.kendall
05-11-2015, 09:30 AM
I Dont need to know specifics of ROI, it is pretty much impossible to beat money spent on SEO with traditional web ads.

Quantius
05-11-2015, 10:05 AM
I Dont need to know specifics of ROI, it is pretty much impossible to beat money spent on SEO with traditional web ads.

Well the value of SEO assumes that your potential customer know what they're looking for and that you're producing enough web content on a regular basis to maintain/increase rank. Not even MTG comes up under first page results for TCG or CCG. How many people are searching for TCGMMO or MMOTCG (for which Hex is #1 result)? SEO is more effective when you engage in a broad product category, it's not a one size fits all solution to marketing.

Targeted marketing is likely the best choice for Hex as they can invest a portion of their budget to place ads on known sites that have cultivated a viewer base of specific minded potential customers (gamers of various stripes) and possibly some level of viewer trust based on content and interaction on that site.

mmorpg.com recently had a small article about Hex the other day, not only is there a call to action at the end of the article (to visit the Hex website) but people who didn't quite understand the concept of Hex had some questions answered by community members and staff. That's worth quite a bit more than a lonely link on a search result page.

Look, I know SEO matters. I'm knee deep in it all the time but content creation sites (aka blogs/reviews/outlets) tend to dominate search results. If you type MMO or MMORPG not even World of Warcraft shows up on page 1. There is no way a product company can keep up with the tagged content that these sites churn out. That's who you will be competing against. So it's more likely that you will draw traffic from those sites by advertising, than someone punching in TCG and finding HEX.

plaguedealer
05-11-2015, 10:10 AM
Quantius' post was informative, I learned something today. Thank you. Back to topic, they need to advertise, but that big push should wait until pve is more fleshed out imo. I dont think we have seen the big push yet.

israel.kendall
05-11-2015, 11:03 AM
Well the value of SEO assumes that your potential customer know what they're looking for and that you're producing enough web content on a regular basis to maintain/increase rank. Not even MTG comes up under first page results for TCG or CCG. How many people are searching for TCGMMO or MMOTCG (for which Hex is #1 result)? SEO is more effective when you engage in a broad product category, it's not a one size fits all solution to marketing.

Targeted marketing is likely the best choice for Hex as they can invest a portion of their budget to place ads on known sites that have cultivated a viewer base of specific minded potential customers (gamers of various stripes) and possibly some level of viewer trust based on content and interaction on that site.

mmorpg.com recently had a small article about Hex the other day, not only is there a call to action at the end of the article (to visit the Hex website) but people who didn't quite understand the concept of Hex had some questions answered by community members and staff. That's worth quite a bit more than a lonely link on a search result page.

Look, I know SEO matters. I'm knee deep in it all the time but content creation sites (aka blogs/reviews/outlets) tend to dominate search results. If you type MMO or MMORPG not even World of Warcraft shows up on page 1. There is no way a product company can keep up with the tagged content that these sites churn out. That's who you will be competing against. So it's more likely that you will draw traffic from those sites by advertising, than someone punching in TCG and finding HEX.

SEO is kind of the opposite, helping people find things they didn't know they were looking for. If someone is searching "mmo tcg", odds are they are already looking for HEX, and the search volume is under 170 searches per month in Google. HEX enjoys the top spot on that search basically due to lack of competition. HEX needs to be high in the results for searches like "digital tcg", "online tcg" and those sort of things. That is how people discover it organically.

On targeted marketing being the best choice, I am not saying to choose SEO and ignore targeted ads. I'm saying to use both. I'm not even saying to concentrate on SEO over targeted ads. I'm saying it is a mistake to ignore SEO. It would also be a mistake to ignore targeted ads, or valuable articles on gaming sites like you mentioned. From your comment it seems you think I am saying to ignore everything to concentrate on SEO, which is entirely not the case here.

HEXtcg.com recently has began being penalized in mobile search results for a problem with a very easy fix. I have seen hextcg.com drop multiple pages in some searches. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about being ignored. I talked about it on the mobilegeddon thread I posted.

And battling over top ranking for a search term like "MMO" is not at all what I am even talking about here. You are seeing like a tiny piece of the picture if that what you think SEO is all about.

Mokog
05-11-2015, 11:14 AM
.....
3. The starter decks should just hands down be better, and it should be possible to run the arena with them consistently [maybe to 15-3 or such... but again it should be possible to clear the arena with them.]


Nope. Nope NOOOOOPE.

The Orc Starter Deck can clear the arena as is.
The Dwarf starter deck can clear the arena with 2-4 changes in cards + 1 equipment
The Human starter just needs to replace guard dog and add 1-2 pieces of equipment
The Shin'hare starter just needs 4-10 cards replaced to clear arena + some equipment. (or as I call it. Hard Mode)

All of these have been proven by streamers live on twitch.

Also those cards swaps are for common and uncommon cards. As of the date of this post the starters do a damn fine job of taking a new player through arena with minimal edits using the starter gold granted to new players.

When the AI is tuned again and the arena champions begin using all of their abilities starter power will get tuned down to tier 1-2 completion average which is probably where it should be for a starter experience.

Just wait till the AI is fully tuned. The golden age of starter power will be but a glimmer of memory and we will be telling people to complete X number of dungeons for the PvE cards they will need to beat tier 3 Frost Ring. That day is coming.

plaguedealer
05-11-2015, 11:31 AM
When the AI is tuned again and the arena champions begin using all of their abilities starter power will get tuned down to tier 1-2 completion average which is probably where it should be for a starter experience.

Just wait till the AI is fully tuned. The golden age of starter power will be but a glimmer of memory and we will be telling people to complete X number of dungeons for the PvE cards they will need to beat tier 3 Frost Ring. That day is coming.

When that day comes I will be happy and scared at the same time.

strylght
05-11-2015, 11:58 AM
3. The starter decks should just hands down be better, and it should be possible to run the arena with them consistently [maybe to 15-3 or such... but again it should be possible to clear the arena with them.

As everyone has said before me, this is NOT the way to go about improving the new player experience. It needs to be made more convenient to learn a difficult game, the game does not need to be made easy from the get-go. That's another sure-fire way at failing to retain players, I'd imagine.

Khazrakh
05-11-2015, 12:08 PM
As everyone has said before me, this is NOT the way to go about improving the new player experience. It needs to be made more convenient to learn a difficult game, the game does not need to be made easy from the get-go. That's another sure-fire way at failing to retain players, I'd imagine.

Fully agreed.
You need to teach people how to play, how to improve their decks and what to look for to get better at playing and get better cards.
No way you need them to be able to clear the arena with what they start with.
I'd actually argue that the Arena is way too easy right now but I can accept it because a) it's because the AI has still a lot to learn and b) we don't have any other PvE right now.

Quantius
05-11-2015, 02:40 PM
SEO is kind of the opposite, helping people find things they didn't know they were looking for. If someone is searching "mmo tcg", odds are they are already looking for HEX, and the search volume is under 170 searches per month in Google. HEX enjoys the top spot on that search basically due to lack of competition. HEX needs to be high in the results for searches like "digital tcg", "online tcg" and those sort of things. That is how people discover it organically.

Right, that's what I said regarding SEO - it's not the opposite.



On targeted marketing being the best choice, I am not saying to choose SEO and ignore targeted ads. I'm saying to use both. I'm not even saying to concentrate on SEO over targeted ads. I'm saying it is a mistake to ignore SEO. It would also be a mistake to ignore targeted ads, or valuable articles on gaming sites like you mentioned. From your comment it seems you think I am saying to ignore everything to concentrate on SEO, which is entirely not the case here.

I was just responding to the idea that SEO would trump or as you said provide way better ROI. The main issue with SEO is that you can't find something organically if you can't keep up the page rankings. Content rich sites (aka non-product sites) generally have dibs on the best search result space because they crank out content and cross-link across the web and tag everything, that's how they pay the bills. I'm also not saying to ignore one for the other, good SEO is absolutely mandatory, but in terms of ROI, I'm afraid they would have to commit a lot of resources in terms of time to increase rankings. Time which is better spent developing their game. In this sense, money is better invested into ads. My recommendation would not only have them placing ads on popular blogs/forums but to invest in google adwords as those trump SEO ranks by automatically showing up at the top of search results (says 'Ad').



HEXtcg.com recently has began being penalized in mobile search results for a problem with a very easy fix. I have seen hextcg.com drop multiple pages in some searches. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about being ignored. I talked about it on the mobilegeddon thread I posted.

Yes, that is a problem. It's 2015 they definitely need a mobile compliant site (not just one that scales to screen size).



And battling over top ranking for a search term like "MMO" is not at all what I am even talking about here. You are seeing like a tiny piece of the picture if that what you think SEO is all about.

I was giving an example of how content sites dwarf product sites in SEO. World of Warcraft being a huge game with huge population is tucked away past page 10 (I gave up looking). Blizzard makes the game, so their website is limited to their product so it doesn't continually produce content. Whereas MMO-Champion a site that pretty much just posts about WoW stuff is the number 1 search result for MMO. This is because they're constantly back-linked by others and they post updates multiple times a day.

israel.kendall
05-11-2015, 02:59 PM
You can make it sound hard, but it is not. The #1 rank Google search result on desktop (for me, almost all search is personalized) for "digital tcg" is a game called Spellweaver that is in its infancy stages. HEX is #2. Repeat the search on mobile, Spellweaver is still #1, but HEX falls half way down the page, due to mobile ranking algorythms that they ignore. This is what I am talking about. And for the record, this forum is constantly churning out content in it's own right, which could be leveraged better SEO wise.

funktion
05-11-2015, 03:47 PM
The outside advertising of the 100k tournament seems a bit off too considering how little we know about it. Someone reads about a big money tournament, but won't be able to find any info in regards to the format, when it starts, what the prize breakdown is, etc. etc. etc.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Not really saying that they should rush announcing things if they aren't ready to yet but that if they are going to display it so prominently in the ads that maybe it should at least have some sort of info. Even if it is just a disclaimer, given ads which I've seen for other games having outdated info it is entirely possible that some folks would be excited about the possible tournament and then think that it was already over since there wasn't much in the way of posted info.

Gwaer
05-11-2015, 04:21 PM
Everytime I see this thread title I think about how impressive it would have been if there actually were hex advertisements in The Net. Even if it was a terrible movie, it was a terrible movie in 1995. That's 20 years ago for people keeping score.

Zophie
05-11-2015, 04:33 PM
Everytime I see this thread title I think about how impressive it would have been if there actually were hex advertisements in The Net. Even if it was a terrible movie, it was a terrible movie in 1995. That's 20 years ago for people keeping score.

1995 was a great year for cyber movies (or terrible year depending on how you look at it): Johnny Mnemonic, Judge Dredd, Virtuosity, and Hackers all came out that year too.

I don't recall any HexTCG references made in any of those movies either, but I'll have to watch them again to be sure.

strylght
05-11-2015, 05:23 PM
1995 was a great year for cyber movies (or terrible year depending on how you look at it): Johnny Mnemonic, Judge Dredd, Virtuosity, and Hackers all came out that year too.

The correct answer is great.

magic_gazz
05-11-2015, 08:05 PM
Yeah these adds seem bad.

"check out the $100k tournament, click here"

They click and get no real info about the $100k tournament.

GJGE

dogmod
05-11-2015, 09:26 PM
I went to the website. Man is that ad super ghetto. Sigh.

The ad is bad enough but the website it takes you too is incredibly low quality.

Embarrassing.

israel.kendall
05-11-2015, 10:31 PM
HEX ads be crowdin' this MTG calendar lol

http://i.imgur.com/74h1XWj.jpg

JohnDruitt
05-11-2015, 10:37 PM
Ghost in the Shell came out in 1995, that was a great year.

Well honestly from my perspective it's to early to advertise 100.000$ tournament. We have close to none information about it.

dbug
05-12-2015, 12:52 AM
Another good option to advertise Hex would be to pay bigger Youtubers/Streamer to promote the game.

There is a german Youtube channel with Hex videos in which they said, this is a paid promotion. I am not sure, how expansive this is, but i can imagine, this is more effective than simple banner ads. Reading the comments, it definitely pulled people into the game.

Mokog
05-12-2015, 04:21 AM
Another good option to advertise Hex would be to pay bigger Youtubers/Streamer to promote the game.

There is a german Youtube channel with Hex videos in which they said, this is a paid promotion. I am not sure, how expansive this is, but i can imagine, this is more effective than simple banner ads. Reading the comments, it definitely pulled people into the game.

Depends on the Youtuber. They can go anywhere from $ 500-thousands generally. Audience size and type of sponsorship matter as well as if the youtuber believes in the game. In all honesty they could just send a tuber a king tier and say, hey try our game and they would get some video hits.

BKCshah
05-12-2015, 05:20 AM
I've always thought it would be amusing to see numotthenummy stream hex. However I can only imagine the fallout for him after such an event. Also there is way too much downtime. Mtgo used to have similar issues if I recall correctly. After those early articles from a few of the magic players, it has been dormant, likely for the most obvious reason.

Mokog
05-12-2015, 07:14 AM
Coverage similar to how the Fate Cup was covered I think works very well for TCGs. Just imagine when they have a budget and can pay out tournaments.