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Tachi_The_Lion
05-13-2015, 03:33 AM
I like the weekly update spoiler very much, it's really well done as it presents the set step by step in an organized manner. But I was still a bit disappointed after set 2 spoiler season as many cards went unspoiled. The weekly update can present a couple cards that work well together, but at the same time I think one random card a day (I wanna see the zodiac shaman of set 3 already :D) would definitely make people come onto the website more. Maybe send some new cards out to streamers (like they did last time) and to fan websites (fiveshards.com) to spoil.

wolzarg
05-13-2015, 03:40 AM
I like spoilers and dogs. One of these i already have. Please complete my happiness HEX.

Diesbudt
05-13-2015, 04:55 AM
Personally I would like no more spoilers to come out. I like enough of they showed to see kind of what this set will have. But I'd love to go into set 3 with everyone blind on what cards are in set 3 as that to me makes the most fun of pack opening and drafting.

Poetic
05-13-2015, 06:35 AM
I prefer the MTG method of spoiling everything by the Monday of release week.

plaguedealer
05-13-2015, 06:49 AM
A somewhat slow churn of spoilers is beneficial to both the site and fansites/podcasts so they have something to talk about.

incitfulmonk21
05-13-2015, 07:04 AM
Personally I would like no more spoilers to come out. I like enough of they showed to see kind of what this set will have. But I'd love to go into set 3 with everyone blind on what cards are in set 3 as that to me makes the most fun of pack opening and drafting.

While a perfectly valid point this way only makes those that want surprises happy. If they release everything then those that don't want to look don't have to they can even give a spoiler warning :). Of course you will still have those that have to look that may wish to be surprised in order to keep the competitive edge but no group can always be happy.

I personally would love to wake up to a spoiled card every morning :). The biggest problem is that we have seen most of the cards in some iteration so only the new features of the set would be super exciting.

Gwaer
05-13-2015, 07:12 AM
Put me in the camp that prefers everything not be spoiled. That does work well for MTG, but this is another place where hex is not mtg. There's only one place where there are release events, and that's in client, don't have to worry about thousands of humans understanding cards, the client will play them how the client plays them, so most of the absolutely necessary reasons for full spoiler documents aren't around. I'd rather competitive deck building starts at release. Rather than the full spoiler. Tease a lot of cards. Hold back necessary pieces to get a complete picture. Keep people entertained, most people will be happy.

Xenavire
05-13-2015, 07:38 AM
Put me in the camp that prefers everything not be spoiled. That does work well for MTG, but this is another place where hex is not mtg. There's only one place where there are release events, and that's in client, don't have to worry about thousands of humans understanding cards, the client will play them how the client plays them, so most of the absolutely necessary reasons for full spoiler documents aren't around. I'd rather competitive deck building starts at release. Rather than the full spoiler. Tease a lot of cards. Hold back necessary pieces to get a complete picture. Keep people entertained, most people will be happy.

I agree with both stances - regular spoilers drives hype. But there is excitement in having things to discover. Both can be done, for a harmonious hype and excitement combo.

Svenn
05-13-2015, 07:41 AM
I'm with Gwaer. A spoiler here and there is fun, but I want the surprise and excitement of opening packs and seeing new things.

vickrpg
05-13-2015, 07:50 AM
The element of "Surprise" in a card game has no sway over me. I would rather have the full spoiler ASAP.

But since I'm not the only one who plays, I don't suggest they do that, despite how much I would like it (I'll seriously sign an NDA if anyone at CZE wants to send me one.) I don't think spoiling too much is good for the vast majority of people. Not everyone likes to read the book before they see the movie, and a lot of people think spoilers ruin their fun, so there needs to be a balance to appease the largest audience.

...

Snape kills Dumbledore.

EDIT: This was my opinion on Spoilers. On "Daily Splilers", I am neutral.

Khazrakh
05-13-2015, 08:02 AM
Snape kills Dumbledore.

This made me laugh a little more than it should have.
Anyway, +1 for Gwaer from me.

Saeijou
05-13-2015, 08:26 AM
Open the test servers for full spoilers! ;)

rjselzler
05-13-2015, 08:41 AM
Solidly in the "I like spoiler season"/"give me my set 3 fix" camp; I've been sullied irreparably by card games with less chivalry.

I get the opposite opinion, though. My knee-jerk reaction is "if you don't want to see, then don't look," but I know that, with things like Hextcgbrowser adding spoilers as soon as they come out, that probably isn't realistic.

Worst case scenario we get a full spoiler in the client the day of release. I'm okay with that, too.

Zophie
05-13-2015, 09:01 AM
I'm with Gwaer. A spoiler here and there is fun, but I want the surprise and excitement of opening packs and seeing new things.

I agree with Svenn's agreement with Gwaer.

chromus
05-13-2015, 09:03 AM
Personally, I'd like to see a full spoiler list at least 1 week before the release. This allows content creators (streamers, youtubers, websites, etc) to do their 'Preview/Set Review/Speculation' pieces which really help hype the release and its events. It also lets everyone go into it with a plan in terms of the decks they want to build and cards they want to target. We, TCG players, are strategists afterall aren't we? :)

Saeijou
05-13-2015, 09:22 AM
I get the opposite opinion, though. My knee-jerk reaction is "if you don't want to see, then don't look," but I know that, with things like Hextcgbrowser adding spoilers as soon as they come out, that probably isn't realistic.



You can't do that without falling behind... that's the problem

Diesbudt
05-13-2015, 09:30 AM
Solidly in the "I like spoiler season"/"give me my set 3 fix" camp; I've been sullied irreparably by card games with less chivalry.

I get the opposite opinion, though. My knee-jerk reaction is "if you don't want to see, then don't look," but I know that, with things like Hextcgbrowser adding spoilers as soon as they come out, that probably isn't realistic.

Worst case scenario we get a full spoiler in the client the day of release. I'm okay with that, too.

That's not the only reason I don't want spoilers. The first week of mtg and other cards games I have played, that first week or 2 after release being blind, drafts are chaotic and much more fun as NO ONE knows what cards are what. It makes drafting and sealing even more fun for me. Because I don't know what I may have to draft and I don't know what my opponents have those first few times.

It really makes drafting and sealed in my opinion much more fun. Showing it all prior to release means I already have the cards studied and have combos in mind going into draft. Still fun, but not as fun.

rjselzler
05-13-2015, 09:46 AM
That's not the only reason I don't want spoilers. The first week of mtg and other cards games I have played, that first week or 2 after release being blind, drafts are chaotic and much more fun as NO ONE knows what cards are what. It makes drafting and sealing even more fun for me. Because I don't know what I may have to draft and I don't know what my opponents have those first few times.

It really makes drafting and sealed in my opinion much more fun. Showing it all prior to release means I already have the cards studied and have combos in mind going into draft. Still fun, but not as fun.

Hence the "I get the opposite opinion" piece. ;)

I understand why you don't like spoilers, but I do. This is truly a zero sum game; for one of us to be happy, the other one must concede his happiness. It's not really a hill I want to die on, so I'm okay with the pseudo compromise we have now.

Honestly, you aren't going to get the chaos you desire, because we will all have a full spoiler in the client the day the set drops. Anyone can go and look at that. Gone are the days of no one knowing anything about a set at all, other than maybe a new keyword, for weal or woe.

Does my knowing about a set (say from the in-game card list) really detract from your fun on release day? I'm genuinely curious. Maybe it does. That sucks, if that's the case, because the only way to fix that would be to not allow people to truly see all cards not in their collect for the first week or so of release, and that may be a hill I would be wiling to die on...

Gwaer
05-13-2015, 09:50 AM
The first several drafts after the client comes up, is full of people that didn't look at the list of cards available in the client. So that experience absolutely can actually exist. While people who want the full spoiler can spend the first several minutes/hours/whatever looking at every card, making imaginary decks etc.

Zophie
05-13-2015, 10:01 AM
My favorite draft events I participated in with WoWTCG were the preview events that took place right when the new sets came out so everyone came into it fresh with almost no knowledge of any of the cards. Everyone got their chance to be surprised and discover all the new cards on the spot, and afterwards life went on and full card lists went up online and people did their blogging and strategizing and everything just fine.

rjselzler
05-13-2015, 10:24 AM
The first several drafts after the client comes up, is full of people that didn't look at the list of cards available in the client. So that experience absolutely can actually exist. While people who want the full spoiler can spend the first several minutes/hours/whatever looking at every card, making imaginary decks etc.

I'm totally cool with that. I was just pushing aback against the notion that we'd somehow have a day of uninformed chaos with no official spoilers. Some people like to shake the Christmas present and others like to be totally surprised. I get that and right now we have a compromise that satisfies both for the first few hours of a release.

bootlace
05-13-2015, 10:29 AM
Holding back spoilers: Some people get to have a few minutes of extra excitement as they see cards for first time as they're drafting.

Having a spread out spoiler period: Everyone gets bits and pieces of excitement spread out over days/weeks which also helps bridge the gap between content updates and keep people interested and thinking about the game (as oppose to being content AND hype starved which leads to people quitting/taking breaks). People who don't wish to be spoiled can still elect to not be spoiled - like I do by choosing not to watch any trailers of a movie I'm going to watch.

Gwaer
05-13-2015, 10:37 AM
It's not a one or the other, they can do both of those things. Also, not watching movie trailers isn't the same. You don't miss out on any competitive advantage for not watching the trailer.

Phenteo
05-13-2015, 10:38 AM
We have a list of cards that we are going to spoil as we get closer to the launch of set 3. We are also delivering exclusives to news sites as well as our partners who help publish the game.

You will see more cards, however, we don't want to spoil every card in the set. We need to leave some excitement when you see new cards for the first time. This also helps fansites that are able to spoil new cards from the set and get traffic as well.

Zophie
05-13-2015, 10:43 AM
Having a spread out spoiler period: Everyone gets bits and pieces of excitement spread out over days/weeks which also helps bridge the gap between content updates and keep people interested and thinking about the game (as oppose to being content AND hype starved which leads to people quitting/taking breaks). People who don't wish to be spoiled can still elect to not be spoiled - like I do by choosing not to watch any trailers of a movie I'm going to watch.

I think you're ignoring the points being made on the other side here that if you choose not to be spoiled you're at a disadvantage to those that do review the spoilers. Your movie analogy doesn't work here because this is an interactive medium, if I get a spoiled on a movie's ending before everyone else sees it that doesn't give me some kind of advantage in a competition. A lot of people simply enjoy the experience of getting an opportunity to come into a new set fresh and discover all the cards at the same time as everyone else playing with them, a shared experience where everyone is on the same level, and it tests their abilities to develop strategies on the fly.

Also just because we don't want full spoilers prior to release doesn't mean there can't be any spoilers at all. I think showing off a few cards each week prior to release is just fine, it builds hype, gets people thinking about possibilities, but the bulk of the set can still be left a surprise at launch. (Edit: Also what Phenteo said above me :))

rjselzler
05-13-2015, 10:51 AM
I think you're ignoring the points being made on the other side here that if you choose not to be spoiled you're at a disadvantage to those that do review the spoilers. Your movie analogy doesn't work here because this is an interactive medium, if I get a spoiled on a movie's ending before everyone else sees it that doesn't give me some kind of advantage in a competition. A lot of people simply enjoy the experience of getting an opportunity to come into a new set fresh and discover all the cards at the same time as everyone else playing with them, a shared experience where everyone is on the same level, and it tests their abilities to develop strategies on the fly.

Also just because we don't want full spoilers prior to release doesn't mean there can't be any spoilers at all. I think showing off a few cards each week prior to release is just fine, it builds hype, gets people thinking about possibilities, but the bulk of the set can still be left a surprise at launch. (Edit: Also what Phenteo said above me :))

Yep, and I think that we pro-full-spoiler people are probably the minority, honestly. I think that, to use sweeping generalizations, Timmys like no spoilers, Johnnys prefer a few spoilers, and we Spikes like the set totally spoiled and every single arcetypal strategy analyzed, categorized, and optimized before we even set foot in a draft.

That is:
Timmy: "learning the cards and discovering things is fun!"
Johnny: "taking a single card that was spoiled and no one though was any good and making it rock is fun!"
Spike: "winning is fun!"

What they are doing now, while not totally satisfying any one demographic does a passable job of somewhat satisfying all three. Again, just my two pennies.

chromus
05-13-2015, 11:20 AM
We are also delivering exclusives to news sites as well as our partners who help publish the game.
You mean such as the exclusive AAs that were only given out through gaming sites for the Latin America garden? (=Paladin of Naagaan AA, Wild Child AA, Royal Herald AA, and Glimmerglen Witch AA. Card links here (http://www.hexla.com/noticias/gana-cartas-de-arte-alterno-en-evento-27-abril))

Saeijou
05-13-2015, 11:24 AM
Well... I would like to have all the spoilers, because I don't like being unprepared :D (yes, it takes the fun of the chaotic drafts, that's for sure!)

But I'm fine as it is... Who am I to question the mighty princess and herr dragons? ;)

Zophie
05-13-2015, 11:36 AM
You mean such as the exclusive AAs that were only given out through gaming sites for the Latin America garden? (=Paladin of Naagaan AA, Wild Child AA, Royal Herald AA, and Glimmerglen Witch AA. Card links here (http://www.hexla.com/noticias/gana-cartas-de-arte-alterno-en-evento-27-abril))

Pretty sure he's talking about exclusive spoilers, like different sites getting dibs on spoiling certain cards first.

Phenteo
05-13-2015, 12:00 PM
Pretty sure he's talking about exclusive spoilers, like different sites getting dibs on spoiling certain cards first.

This.

poizonous
05-13-2015, 01:40 PM
Every set release will have a thread like this, still think non full spoilers are silly since once the client patches we can see everything, spoilers can simply be not looked at if you dont want to see them. I know I wont dare go into a queue without knowing the potential cards I will face, and as for "Team Full Spoiler" I am not sure we are minority, we are just the vocal minority.

bootlace
05-13-2015, 01:54 PM
I think you're ignoring the points being made on the other side here that if you choose not to be spoiled you're at a disadvantage to those that do review the spoilers.

In your scenario someone will always be at a disadvantage. Even if you enter the very first draft you're likely playing against someone that's either checking out the card manager in another client simultaneously or you're playing against someone with better/worse levels of text reading/comprehension skills (sorry non-native speakers).

The only way to assure equality in knowledge is to release the cards in advance - which is what would be expected from a strategic and competitive TCG.

I'm not going to complain about it when it comes to PvP sets (let the "blind draft" fans have their fun for a few hours, no harm), but I really hope we haven't been kept in the dark regarding the game's many features for the last 2 years because they're over-focusing on delivering 'surprises'.

Zophie
05-13-2015, 02:17 PM
In your scenario someone will always be at a disadvantage. Even if you enter the very first draft you're likely playing against someone that's either checking out the card manager in another client simultaneously or you're playing against someone with better/worse levels of text reading/comprehension skills (sorry non-native speakers).

You're right it's not perfect in that sense, but those people checking out the card manager are also only just doing this right there at the same time as everyone else is. They don't get access to all that information until the day of launch, so they aren't spending a week or however long before hand thinking out strategies and prioritizing cards. It's just a blind draft on relatively equal ground as everyone else. Competition aside, it's just a fun experience to be a part of in general, and one that can only really be experienced once at the beginning of a set release.


I'm not going to complain about it when it comes to PvP sets (let the "blind draft" fans have their fun for a few hours, no harm), but I really hope we haven't been kept in the dark regarding the game's many features for the last 2 years because they're over-focusing on delivering 'surprises'.

I wouldn't look at it as an "over-focus" but they definitely do seem to like the idea of surprising us with a big huge "content dump" when the dungeons are finally released, at least from what I've heard Cory say in his interviews. I'm sure we'll still get some previews before hand, similar to what we're getting now for new set previews, but I'm guessing we'll have a ton of new stuff to discover on our own when it all finally lands in our laps.

vickrpg
05-13-2015, 04:11 PM
Yep, and I think that we pro-full-spoiler people are probably the minority, honestly. I think that, to use sweeping generalizations, Timmys like no spoilers, Johnnys prefer a few spoilers, and we Spikes like the set totally spoiled and every single arcetypal strategy analyzed, categorized, and optimized before we even set foot in a draft.

That is:
Timmy: "learning the cards and discovering things is fun!"
Johnny: "taking a single card that was spoiled and no one though was any good and making it rock is fun!"
Spike: "winning is fun!"

What they are doing now, while not totally satisfying any one demographic does a passable job of somewhat satisfying all three. Again, just my two pennies.

Definitely a sweeping generalization. I'm a Johnny all the way. I want to see the full spoiler because I will spend the first week making imaginary decks. I would even draft (much) if not for my free ones.
Winning is okay, but Victory isn't everything.
Making decks is more fun with more pieces.

rjselzler
05-13-2015, 04:49 PM
Winning is okay, but Victory isn't everything.


As an unrepentant Spike, I wholeheartedly disagree. :D

Rycajo
05-13-2015, 07:01 PM
IMHO, PvE is the perfect ground for surprises. PvP is a great place for knowing in advance.

PureVapes
05-13-2015, 07:21 PM
When set 2 was released, I hadn't really kept up with the spoilers, but I just looked at the cards using the in game 'show all items' filter before I went drafting anyway. Doesn't matter to me (and probably to most people) to what degree they release spoilers.

Kolokee
05-14-2015, 12:34 AM
I would like the spoilers to come all at once by way of a blind pre-release weekend celebration.

Not knowing a single card or new mechanic, and knowing no one else does either, until we all open our packs for that first time together in a presumably massive tourney seems like a good moment to experience and a true test of skill.

DoctorJoe
05-14-2015, 04:17 AM
I'm in favor of full spoilers for PVP. I agree with Rycajo that PVE is a great place for surprises.

Seeing new cards for the first time in draft *is* exciting, and I have done "blind" drafts in paper TCGs where other drafters had more information. Evaluating a card in a vacuum on a shot clock is not really skill based because you don't have the information you need to do the evaluation.

As for competitive advantage for full spoilers vs no spoilers players, I think it varies some from set to set. The more intuitive the draft strategies are, the smaller the advantage. 1-1-1 drafts felt pretty intuitive and were more of a "good stuff" format. 2-2-2 and 2-2-1 drafts feel a lot less intuitive because there are several very strong strategies that outclass typical "good stuff" deck building. In the former, the advantage is pretty low. In the latter, it can be pretty frustrating to play against fully spoiled drafters.

I can still get my full spoiler prior to doing my first draft by spending some time in the client. This is a huge advantage of the digital format over paper TCGs. I imagine TCGbrowser will have everything loaded up pretty quickly after set release too, so if I have to work on release day, I can probably check out spoilers on my lunch break. I'd rather be drafting, but reading new cards is fun to me too.

As a side note, set 2 release was a great time for sealed, which I think is what I'm most excited for about set 3. Mmmmm release sealed.