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darkwonders
05-18-2015, 05:23 PM
I honestly don't think there's anything more rude to tournament players than being one of those people who are performing other obligations during a tournament.

When I join a tournament, I want to play and enjoy a few hours doing so. The potential of winning $12 worth of packs is just a nice side bonus. I'm trying to give my full attention for the duration of the match. I'd expect at least the same courtesy. I know emergencies come up, especially when you have kids, but if it's something that requires long term attention, the timer will timeout after 5 minutes of inactivity anyways, so that doesn't bother me.

It's when you're away in short enough intervals that it won't time out, but long enough that I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for you to pass priority on a troop I play. When after the first game, you're under 10 minutes and I'm above 20, and we barely got through the deck, I'm not having fun anymore.


/rant

Phenteo
05-18-2015, 05:26 PM
Very sorry to hear about that. If you see this happening often with certain players, feel free to screenshot, take the tournament ID#, date/time and opponent name and send that into CS. We can keep track of users who may be trying to exploit the system.

darkwonders
05-18-2015, 05:32 PM
Very sorry to hear about that. If you see this happening often with certain players, feel free to screenshot, take the tournament ID#, date/time and opponent name and send that into CS. We can keep track of users who may be trying to exploit the system.

He wasn't. He was just at work, which seems like an odd time to try to play a potential 3 hour tournament. He has a 30 min clock, which a player is allowed to use. I'm just venting my frustration cause I really didn't get to play much that game.

I haven't seen anyone actually exploit it. Just people who try to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to playing in a tourney and attending to their other obligations.

Gwaer
05-18-2015, 05:34 PM
I've been on both sides of this problem, a lot of times I will play on my cellphones connection tethered to my ipad, which is remoted into my computer. Works great when I have good signal, can be quite a slog when my signal is spotty, and I really have no way of knowing how it's going to be. On the one hand, if it's too bad I will time out and lose, that's not fun for me or my opponent, but I think I should be able to attempt it whenever I think I can find the time.

hex_colin
05-18-2015, 05:36 PM
People get 30 minutes for their matches. They can use it as they see fit. I certainly wouldn't want to have action taken against me for using the time available to me.

Kami
05-18-2015, 05:39 PM
People get 30 minutes for their matches. They can use it as they see fit. I certainly wouldn't want to have action taken against me for using the time available to me.

Agreed but only in paid-entry situations.

There was so much abuse of this in the Proving Grounds during the 100 gold reward era. (And I have screenshots to prove it - including player confessions.)

Thoom
05-18-2015, 05:40 PM
Yeah, I don't think any action should be taken against slow players. It is literally the most frustrating thing in the world to lose to one, though.

Phenteo
05-18-2015, 05:46 PM
People get 30 minutes for their matches. They can use it as they see fit. I certainly wouldn't want to have action taken against me for using the time available to me.

If it is someone legitimately doing this on purpose to try to get other players to quit, then CS could look into it. Key is repeated offenses and not just one-off situations here and there. That being said, players are allowed to take all 30 minutes as they see fit.

Jonesy
05-18-2015, 05:54 PM
And here I thought this was going to be about the people who enter a draft, rare-draft, afk through the entire deckbuilding process, and then afk through their entire first match. Just save a deck and forfeit please. I don't think there's a forfeit option in deckbuilding, there should be, but just save, disconnect, and don't rejoin instead of wasting everybody's time.

darkwonders
05-18-2015, 05:58 PM
People get 30 minutes for their matches. They can use it as they see fit. I certainly wouldn't want to have action taken against me for using the time available to me.

Oh I know. I don't want them to be punished. Hence this is a PSA as a friendly reminder that there's other people's time on the line :)

darkwonders
05-18-2015, 05:59 PM
And here I thought this was going to be about the people who enter a draft, rare-draft, afk through the entire deckbuilding process, and then afk through their entire first match. Just save a deck and forfeit please. I don't think there's a forfeit option in deckbuilding, there should be, but just save, disconnect, and don't rejoin instead of wasting everybody's time.

That too. XD

There is a forfeit button in deckbuilding. I use it all the time when rare drafting.

Thoom
05-18-2015, 06:14 PM
There's an incentive not to hit forefeit, because you might get a R1 bye. But that's no excuse to not save a 45 card deck with a random champion immediately.

magic_gazz
05-18-2015, 06:33 PM
He wasn't. He was just at work, which seems like an odd time to try to play a potential 3 hour tournament. He has a 30 min clock, which a player is allowed to use. I'm just venting my frustration cause I really didn't get to play much that game.

I haven't seen anyone actually exploit it. Just people who try to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to playing in a tourney and attending to their other obligations.

I actually play mostly from work. Most of the time its not a problem, only if I have to go move my car or someone comes to my desk and wont leave.

I understand this must be annoying for my opponent, but its annoying for me too. Im not going to not play though based on the fact some people might get upset about it. If I run out of time, you win the game.

katkillad
05-18-2015, 08:38 PM
Can we please go back to 15 minute deck building time :(

Thoom
05-18-2015, 10:01 PM
Can we please go back to 15 minute deck building time :(

Or maybe even 10 for competitive, reserving 20 for swiss? Now that I can basically build my deck using the bin while drafting, I rarely need more than 5 minutes.

Ariathor
05-19-2015, 02:55 AM
And here I thought this was going to be about the people who enter a draft, rare-draft, afk through the entire deckbuilding process, and then afk through their entire first match. Just save a deck and forfeit please. I don't think there's a forfeit option in deckbuilding, there should be, but just save, disconnect, and don't rejoin instead of wasting everybody's time.

Actually I prefer when they stay, because when there are two afks two people get a free round 1 win. When two people drop instead of afking though, noone gets a round 1 bye. And it's not like a round against an afk where you alt-tab will last longer than the other players playing the actual games. I do agree it would be nice if they saved their decks though. Or if deck-building time was lower, especially in competitive draft.

EDIT: I meant I prefer it when they afk instead of dropping, two round 1 byes are better than one round 2 bye.

poizonous
05-19-2015, 03:01 AM
Actually because when there are two afks two people get a free round 1 win. When two people drop instead of afking though, noone gets a round 1 bye. And it's not like a round against an afk where you alt-tab will last longer than the other players playing the actual games. I do agree it would be nice if they saved their decks though. Or if deck-building time was lower, especially in competitive draft.

I actually think 2 people getting a round 1 bye is better than 1 person getting a round 2 bye.

wolzarg
05-19-2015, 03:07 AM
I can shamefully admit i have done some rage stalls in my time on hex. But a combination of awesome community time better spent incentive (pve) and working on my anger issues has practically eliminated them. Nothing is an excusse for wasting other peoples time like that and in the end everyone loses. Lets all be nice to each other. :)

Ertzi
05-19-2015, 03:37 AM
I can shamefully admit i have done some rage stalls in my time on hex. But a combination of awesome community time better spent incentive (pve) and working on my anger issues has practically eliminated them. Nothing is an excusse for wasting other peoples time like that and in the end everyone loses. Lets all be nice to each other. :)

Very cool of you to admit this. Kudos. There is nothing more lame than disconnecting when I have a lethal attack on the stack, like in my last tournament. It was not you :)

The worst I have ever done is getting a cup of coffee (already made it though) and popping into the bathroom before clicking submit with my deck. I always make sure I have cleared my schedule before a draft so I can play continuously and without disruptions. I don't mind slow players or turns at all though, because I always have a good podcast on my laptop next to me on pause :) (Seriously, Dan Carlin's Hardcore History, check it out. Start with The Wrath of Khans. Thank me later.)

Standup is also a good choice, as that keeps me in good spirits.

Tinfoil
05-19-2015, 04:31 AM
Apart without trolling, bad connection and old computers downtime is still a real problem.

I have also been doing other things while playing tournys because I know I will have several long periods of waiting. I try to avoid this as I know it can be frustrating if the timing is bad, but so can starring at the screen for 3x15 minutes. Being able to do stuff in-game while waiting for the next game seems like an important priority.

ziggarius
05-19-2015, 06:51 AM
I admit when I have lost two games I say gg and wait maybe two minutes. I give that time not as a rage thing but due to the lack of notifications to battle chat.

I want to give my opponent the props they deserve.

Ertzi
05-19-2015, 02:01 PM
I admit when I have lost two games I say gg and wait maybe two minutes. I give that time not as a rage thing but due to the lack of notifications to battle chat.

I want to give my opponent the props they deserve.

Same here. It drives me crazy to not know if my opponent didn't reply to the GG because they are rude, or if they just didn't notice the message. I know I have seen a friendly message after the match has already ended many times and then I am bummed I didn't notice it in time. I love to chat with cool people, even if I am getting crushed. But yeah, I definitely pause a bit after writing "good games".

Cephied
05-19-2015, 03:16 PM
Same here. It drives me crazy to not know if my opponent didn't reply to the GG because they are rude, or if they just didn't notice the message. I know I have seen a friendly message after the match has already ended many times and then I am bummed I didn't notice it in time. I love to chat with cool people, even if I am getting crushed. But yeah, I definitely pause a bit after writing "good games".

Given the current state of the chat client, the best way to chat in matches is using whispers. No need to wait on a concede that way either.

Ariathor
05-20-2015, 02:58 AM
Given the current state of the chat client, the best way to chat in matches is using whispers. No need to wait on a concede that way either.

Agreed, if I want to make sure my opponent sees something I always whisper. And I prefer that they do the same.

Brjuntinaar
07-13-2015, 10:03 PM
Very sorry to hear about that. If you see this happening often with certain players, feel free to screenshot, take the tournament ID#, date/time and opponent name and send that into CS. We can keep track of users who may be trying to exploit the system.

Hello, I just played a draft where, one round of which was a complete waste of time because my opponent (I believe intentionally, perhaps because he is one of the free drafters) was afk the entire time during both games. I won the match after waiting a total of 12 minutes or whatever (5 minutes per game plus 2 at sideboards), but I lost out on being able to play my game, and the whole thing was a massive waste of time. I mean, seriously, if you have the free drafts, fine, but don't waste my time idling in game...drop from the draft if you aren't going to play in it.

Can I report this player, and how do I "send this into CS" as Phenteo mentioned?

ziggarius
07-13-2015, 10:19 PM
Hello, I just played a draft where, one round of which was a complete waste of time because my opponent (I believe intentionally, perhaps because he is one of the free drafters) was afk the entire time during both games. I won the match after waiting a total of 12 minutes or whatever (5 minutes per game plus 2 at sideboards), but I lost out on being able to play my game, and the whole thing was a massive waste of time. I mean, seriously, if you have the free drafts, fine, but don't waste my time idling in game...drop from the draft if you aren't going to play in it.

Can I report this player, and how do I "send this into CS" as Phenteo mentioned?

Honestly this doesn't sound like a user trying to exploit the system. Probably just fell asleep waiting on queue to fire or something. If they tried to drag it out for the full 30 minutes they get with their clock THAT would be exploiting it.

Also obligatory

http://i.imgur.com/zad0137.png

Yoss
07-13-2015, 10:47 PM
Can I report this player, and how do I "send this into CS" as Phenteo mentioned?

support.hextcg.com

I wouldn't say AFK for the whole match is abusive, though.

Mandalore
07-14-2015, 12:25 AM
I am given 30 minutes per match. If I decide to spend 20 of those minutes running around and doing something else I should be able to. If I then spend 10 minutes and beat you twice, how is that abuse?

Ariathor
07-14-2015, 01:24 AM
I am given 30 minutes per match. If I decide to spend 20 of those minutes running around and doing something else I should be able to. If I then spend 10 minutes and beat you twice, how is that abuse?

Because you are not allowed to be running around for 20 minutes, you would get dropped due to being afk. If you're running around for 20 minutes and just making a move every 3 minutes to keep the game alive you are gaming the system. You are not only wasting your opponent's time, but also the other players' time that are waiting for the next round to start.

Arbiter
07-14-2015, 01:47 AM
Because you are not allowed to be running around for 20 minutes, you would get dropped due to being afk. If you're running around for 20 minutes and just making a move every 3 minutes to keep the game alive you are gaming the system. You are not only wasting your opponent's time, but also the other players' time that are waiting for the next round to start.

Actually they are allowed to do that. They paid there entry fee and are entitled to their thirty minutes just as you are. It is also likely that if you and your opponent finish in forty minutes, that there will be a match running longer than that - particularly in a large tournament. Your opponent gets the same time as you, unless he/she is exploiting something that is chewing up your time as well as there own there is nothing wrong going on, and you have nothing to complain about. Real life happens, don't assume the worst of the person on the other end and you won't get as mad. Getting annoyed just hurts you, potentially tilting you and putting you off your game in subsequent rounds.

ylhos
07-14-2015, 02:25 AM
Because you are not allowed to be running around for 20 minutes, you would get dropped due to being afk. If you're running around for 20 minutes and just making a move every 3 minutes to keep the game alive you are gaming the system. You are not only wasting your opponent's time, but also the other players' time that are waiting for the next round to start.

How is it gaming the system? There is absolutely no abuse in this. The system allows for players to use the provided time however they see fit. I know it's annoying having to sit around and wait for you opponent (or others), but that's just how the system works now. If you find he is doing it intentionally to piss you off, then he's an asshole. But be mindful there are many reason why people play "annoyingly".

Perhaps when the game becomes more popular, there will be other modes like a "turbo draft" or something.

wang801
07-14-2015, 05:12 AM
this happened to me a few months ago when set 2 was new. my connection to hex was so bad that my timer went down to 10 while my opponent got like 25 or more mins. sometimes its just connection problems though.

Xexist
07-14-2015, 05:15 AM
but I lost out on being able to play my game,


And were compensated with booster packs for moving to the next round.

I think there isnt a person in HEX who wouldnt find a trade of 12 minutes for 2 boosters one hellofa deal

darkwonders
07-14-2015, 05:44 AM
How is it gaming the system? There is absolutely no abuse in this. The system allows for players to use the provided time however they see fit. I know it's annoying having to sit around and wait for you opponent (or others), but that's just how the system works now. If you find he is doing it intentionally to piss you off, then he's an asshole. But be mindful there are many reason why people play "annoyingly".

Perhaps when the game becomes more popular, there will be other modes like a "turbo draft" or something.

Well Gauntlet will help in allowing people with limited time to play as it's BO1

MasterN64
07-14-2015, 05:48 AM
I have only once done anything resembling slow play. I had sat down to draft and shortly into round 2 i get a we need to move this old ceramic tub out of the bathroom like right now for the renovations. I apologized to the person i was playing against and explained then off i went to help remove the tub that weighed a few hundred pounds. Every couple minutes i would return to play a turn then off i went again. I ended up winning that tournament.

I felt bad so i sent the guy like ten thousand gold. I cant remember the exact amount.

ylhos
07-14-2015, 07:07 AM
Well Gauntlet will help in allowing people with limited time to play as it's BO1

Oh yea! Definitely one of the most exciting aspect in the upcoming patch for me :)

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 07:45 AM
I have on several occasions joined a draft, that I'm actually paying for, then totally forgot about it, and started doing something else, making dinner, reading forums, and looked into the client to see i'd lost 2 games and was out =P

In my experience it is not usually malicious, someone with bad internet, bad computer, hex related bug, or personal issue. Just get excited for them basically giving you a free draft next time where you have the opportunity to play 3 more rounds.

Xenavire
07-14-2015, 08:53 AM
Yeah, AFK is AFK, thats totally different from intended abuse (and they two will be obvious to anyone who has been on the receiving end of abuse.)

I'd say that this kind of abuse is actually incredibly rare, as I believe I have only encountered it once (ever) in all the time I have spent playing. AFK, on the other hand, seems to happen every other draft lately. ;)

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 09:01 AM
The only time abuse that is actually abuse is when they're exploiting a bug making your time run on their priority. Other than that people can use their time however they want. Even if that means passing one priority every 4.5 minutes until they run out of time. Slow play when they're on a clock where they lose to time is just not a thing. Slow play in something like the shard cup could be a thing since they aren't on a personal timer and could force draws.

darkwonders
07-14-2015, 09:17 AM
Yeah, AFK is AFK, thats totally different from intended abuse (and they two will be obvious to anyone who has been on the receiving end of abuse.)

I'd say that this kind of abuse is actually incredibly rare, as I believe I have only encountered it once (ever) in all the time I have spent playing. AFK, on the other hand, seems to happen every other draft lately. ;)

If you don't exit the tournament correctly as a Rare Drafter, I don't think it removes you from the queue. But they did implement a 5 min timer at the beginning of the match waiting for someone to connect if they disconnected.

Bombs
07-14-2015, 10:00 AM
Hey Brjuntinaar,

Given the time of your posting, I think I was your opponent in round one. I got pulled away from my computer during pack three of the drafting process and was unable to return. I totally didn't mean to afk-troll (is that a thing?); but I also didn't want to forfeit the draft when I could have still been able to come back during deck building, toss together a deck from my 35 picks and 10 auto-picks, and then played. I'm sorry for the inconvenience though. Enjoy those 2 round one victory packs!

Ariathor
07-14-2015, 10:04 AM
How is it gaming the system? There is absolutely no abuse in this. The system allows for players to use the provided time however they see fit. I know it's annoying having to sit around and wait for you opponent (or others), but that's just how the system works now. If you find he is doing it intentionally to piss you off, then he's an asshole. But be mindful there are many reason why people play "annoyingly".

Perhaps when the game becomes more popular, there will be other modes like a "turbo draft" or something.

First of all, people who replied to me incorrectly assumed I'm angry at slow players. I certainly find it annoying, but it has happened very rarely and would definitely not let it tilt me.

It is gaming the system though, because the system has a provision that if you are afk for more than 5 minutes you should get dropped. By coming back every 4.5 minutes the person is abusing the poor implementation of the system, tricking it into considering him as present, while in reality he is basically afk.

I'm not saying it is necessarily malicious, just that it reveals a flaw in the current system.

PS. Just to clarify, pure afk is perfectly fine, RL happens.

shocker455
07-14-2015, 10:28 AM
If someone wants to make a move every 4 minutes it's up to them and it's fair game. Gotta say it tends to put me in a bad mood, so when they only have 5 minutes left and I start doing the same thing back to them they can't complain.

Jonesy
07-14-2015, 11:57 AM
I am given 30 minutes per match. If I decide to spend 20 of those minutes running around and doing something else I should be able to. If I then spend 10 minutes and beat you twice, how is that abuse?

It's abusing the limitations of the online system...and it makes you an asshole. Try doing that in a live setting with someone and see how happy they are. Try it in a live tournament and see what the judge does. Don't be a dick, respect your opponent enough not to waste his time and jerk him around because you can't manage your time properly.

x78089
07-14-2015, 12:29 PM
It's abusing the limitations of the online system...and it makes you an asshole. Try doing that in a live setting with someone and see how happy they are. Try it in a live tournament and see what the judge does. Don't be a dick, respect your opponent enough not to waste his time and jerk him around because you can't manage your time properly.

We are not in a live setting.

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 12:38 PM
I've never played in a live setting with a chess clock on me, I'm not sure what their rules for what constitutes slow play is in that situation. Could anyone link me to some standardized rules for that situation?

poizonous
07-14-2015, 12:40 PM
I've never played in a live setting with a chess clock on me, I'm not sure what their rules for what constitutes slow play is in that situation. Could anyone link me to some standardized rules for that situation?

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/article/20070924a older article but i believe it still holds true

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 12:47 PM
That's in a standard tournament where each individual player Isn't allotted a set amount of time though, right? The key question is how they would handle players being in a chess clock. Imo that should completely remove slow play rules. Since all games have a maximum allotted time before an auto lose.

http://www.quora.com/Why-are-chess-clocks-not-used-in-high-level-live-Magic-The-Gathering-tournaments

This article is sadly more relevant. But we already have the nonstop slap fest downside. So we can make use of the upside. Which is no draws to time, set fair amounts of time allocated to each player to manage as they want, the slow play penalty here is a loss.

poizonous
07-14-2015, 12:52 PM
Im MtG you have a 1 hour round and being up in the match 1-0 would mean you win in the 1 hour allotted time if the time is met because you have a shared time, which is actually more relevant to slow play because 1 player can use 40 minutes of your shared hour. In HEX I am still not thrilled with the shared hour split into 30 minute timers each (Different subject) but yeah it should change the rule a little. I still disagree that someone should be allowed to use 4 1/2 minutes every turn without being punished for it. Yes he wont win but it is still very unsportsmanlike

EccentricFan
07-14-2015, 01:10 PM
Thankfully, I rarely run into players that are a big drain on time, but I think they could really speed up the match part of draft quite a bit with some simple changes. I'd love to cut time on deck building for drafts, but even if they don't, there are still options. Here are some options that could be at least considered as a way to speed things up:

1. If someone lets time expire and has the system pick their first two cards of the draft, they are considered afk. A notification pops up with an "I'm back" button. Until they press that, the system will auto-pick their card immediately each round rather than waiting for time to expire.

2. When deck building, if no changes are made to deck for a full minute, a warning will pop up. You have one minute to tell it you are still working or it will auto-save your current deck (or use the same logic as if you let time expire without saving a deck to save a valid deck.)

Given how many games start with less than a minute or so on the clock, I think a number of drafters make a deck, set a timer without saving, and go do something else, so the game will start at a set time rather then having to watch for it to start. This would make that too troublesome to be worth it for most of them. And also prevent needing the whole time with people who are completely afk.

3. Encourage people to save their decks sooner via some sort of carrot or stick measure. Some options:
a. A small gold reward for quick saves. Maybe 2X gold if you save a valid deck in under Y minutes or X gold for under 2Y minutes.
b. More likely to be given a bye if you saved sooner. (Could be a negative incentive for those who don't want a bye though.)
c. Maybe the first X minutes are free, but if you go beyond that, it starts eating from your game time in game 1.

However they address it, I really think it would make drafts a lot more appealing if they found ways to actually get us playing quicker once we sign up for a draft.

Showsni
07-14-2015, 01:27 PM
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/article/20070924a older article but i believe it still holds true

Doesn't apply to Hex other than for tournaments with a shared clock, like the Five Shards Cup series. Hex has a chess clock style. Each player has 30 minutes, and they can use them as they wish. Be glad there's a five minute inactivity timer at all! If someone wants to spend 4 minutes deliberating what to do every turn, then that's their prerogative.

Jonesy
07-14-2015, 03:26 PM
We are not in a live setting.

We're still people, sitting somewhere, playing a game against someone, and we still don't enjoy having to sit there while somebody does dishes or walks around for 4 minutes every turn instead of devoting their full attention to it and playing the game in a timely manner.

Xexist
07-14-2015, 05:24 PM
We're still people, sitting somewhere, playing a game against someone, and we still don't enjoy having to sit there while somebody does dishes or walks around for 4 minutes every turn instead of devoting their full attention to it and playing the game in a timely manner.

And some people dont enjoy playing a game if they cant multitask cooking dinner or taking piano lessons. Free drafts aside, everyone paid the same amount to draft, my 'dont enjoys' and your 'dont enjoys' arent any more or less important that anyone elses 'dont enjoys'

darkwonders
07-14-2015, 06:41 PM
*sigh* as much as I like venting, I was not expecting this to get necro'd.

Can a mod close this please?

Brjuntinaar
07-14-2015, 07:46 PM
Hey Brjuntinaar,

Given the time of your posting, I think I was your opponent in round one. I got pulled away from my computer during pack three of the drafting process and was unable to return. I totally didn't mean to afk-troll (is that a thing?); but I also didn't want to forfeit the draft when I could have still been able to come back during deck building, toss together a deck from my 35 picks and 10 auto-picks, and then played. I'm sorry for the inconvenience though. Enjoy those 2 round one victory packs!
Ah that is understandable...I've only drafted ~ 5 times now, and this has already happened to me twice, so I was thinking that this might be a larger issue.

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 07:51 PM
Ah that is understandable...I've only drafted ~ 5 times now, and this has already happened to me twice, so I was thinking that this might be a larger issue.

Thanks for coming back for a second post =)

Thoom
07-15-2015, 09:43 AM
And some people dont enjoy playing a game if they cant multitask cooking dinner or taking piano lessons. Free drafts aside, everyone paid the same amount to draft, my 'dont enjoys' and your 'dont enjoys' arent any more or less important that anyone elses 'dont enjoys'

Somebody else could "not enjoy" drafts unless they're flinging obscenities or playing multiple accounts in the same draft, and it doesn't make those behaviors any more acceptable. Intentionally slow playing is a jerk move no matter how you slice it.

Xexist
07-15-2015, 10:00 AM
Somebody else could "not enjoy" drafts unless they're flinging obscenities or playing multiple accounts in the same draft, and it doesn't make those behaviors any more acceptable. Intentionally slow playing is a jerk move no matter how you slice it.

Good point because those are the exact same thing!

nicosharp
07-15-2015, 10:03 AM
PrincessCory was AFK against me last night. I thought maybe there was an invisible Shrewd Manipulation in play....

Anyways, yes, it sucks to get AFK'd on, but there are many life commitments that make these longer tournaments challenging to complete without interruption. Perspective changes a lot once living circumstances and real-time unavoidable tasks suddenly pop-up.

Gauntlet will be a nice safety net for both players with increasingly demanding personal lives, and those that want to avoid unnecessarily long wait times. If.... you can stomach the EV, and challenge claiming "infinite" here.

Thoom
07-15-2015, 01:55 PM
Good point because those are the exact same thing!

They're all antisocial behaviors that are not currently explicitly prevented by the game engine.

Gwaer
07-15-2015, 02:02 PM
They're all antisocial behaviors that are not currently explicitly prevented by the game engine.

They are explicitely prevented by the TOS though. That's honestly just as good in the case of obscenities. I personally wouldn't risk my collections. While using your time is not antisocial in any way. It's just a necessity of the kind of clock we have and the pass priority system. People really just have to learn to roll with it.

Thoom
07-15-2015, 02:14 PM
"Using your time" is different from "intentionally delaying every action to maximally frustrate the other player". It's not a distinction the game can easily make, but it is one that reasonable humans can.

Gwaer
07-15-2015, 04:20 PM
"Using your time" is different from "intentionally delaying every action to maximally frustrate the other player". It's not a distinction the game can easily make, but it is one that reasonable humans can.

I disagree, sometimes things come up that take a large portion of your time, but will be resolved by the time the next round starts, so you're forced to take your turns very slowly. Sometimes you're just a very thoughtful person and use an obscene amount of time. But ultimately taking a very long time to 'frustrate' people is self defeating. They're going to lose on time eventually, you will win, even if you misplay or the game actually gets interesting they've shot themselves in the foot. If you're feeling frustrated maybe get up and take a walk yourself and use your own time to get some water and calm down. But no one can frustrate you but you. My trick is to imagine all sorts of scenarios where they have a reasonable excuse to play so slowly. I've imagined people dealing with a murderer killing all of their friends and family while sneaking around the house to hide from him, and coming back to make their moves whenever they have a moment. I've also imagined that the murderer is actually responsible for any decent plays they make, and they're the terrible one. I've imagined floods, where people are building larger and large towers to stack their computers on just so they can make it into the prizes, and fires, and any sort of terrible thing happening to the person on the other side... And then it makes it so much better when the thing they were clinging to to survive is snatched away from them as they lose to time, or just straight up lose. In the end, since I've come to terms with the fact that it's their time and they can use it how they want I've tilted a lot less from slow play, and become a better player by actually utilizing that time to think, so my own turns can do that much faster.

See earlier in this thread for example, there was a good reason that this guys opponent was playing slow, but the reasonable human he was playing assumed he was doing it to be malicious. It is not a distinction anyone can make except someone who is watching the webcam of the player.

wolzarg
07-16-2015, 05:24 AM
They are explicitely prevented by the TOS though. That's honestly just as good in the case of obscenities. I personally wouldn't risk my collections. While using your time is not antisocial in any way. It's just a necessity of the kind of clock we have and the pass priority system. People really just have to learn to roll with it.

I can vouch for this as i have been temp banned previously. People shouldn't be throwing insults at you and if they do simply report them and support will resolve the matter. In the long run it will be better for the community and some times for the individual as i managed to cut back on my rage significantly. None should feel they are being insulted when they are trying to have a good time and the ToS is there to protect you from that.

NOBLEStarshield
07-17-2015, 11:36 AM
Locking this necro'd thread.