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View Full Version : Suggestion for new tournament option



momaro
05-21-2015, 10:39 PM
I am a new player. I've been watching Alucards stream for about two weeks. In my opinion, and against that of the majority of the established community, there is not any good options for new players looking to learn and play the game:

-challenging the arena is not fun. the champion powers are very strong, and the AI is very not smart. without a constructed deck a new player doesn't get very far, and the journey is simply not fun.
-free to pvp constructed is again not fun without cards. not knowing the content of the game and playing against experienced players is boring for both participants.
-the draft costs 3 packs and 100 platinum and is simply too high an investment for a new player. 4 hours to play is also a large block of time that isn't always available.

so my suggestion is a new quick draft:

100 platinum entry for an 8 person draft.
nobody keeps their drafted cards.
players only play one set.
winner gets a booster pack.

for about a dollar, you get an hour of gameplay that isn't limited to your starter deck. you get experience with the draft, experience with other players, and you get to see and use a wide variety of cards. And when you lose, you can try again for about a dollar.

this is also a good option for players who want to draft but don't have the time or money to play a full draft.

Assassine
05-21-2015, 10:52 PM
The point against this is that it would allow players to have the fun of draft without the cost, thus removing most of the profit made on drafts.

Yoss
05-21-2015, 11:07 PM
I actually quite like the idea, other than the usual queue-splitting problem inherent in any new format being added (which is not to be downplayed).


The point against this is that it would allow players to have the fun of draft without the cost, thus removing most of the profit made on drafts.
What do you mean "without the cost"? The proposed queue actually has terrible payout relative to the other options (input is 800p, output is 4 packs), so it's not going to eclipse the "real" tournaments.

magic_gazz
05-22-2015, 12:33 AM
If you don't have the time or money to draft.......don't draft. Find other things to do.

Not sure what it is you are looking for though as you don't like draft (time and money), don't like PvP constructed (cant compete) and don't like arena (reasons).

They cant go round making game modes for every guy who turns up and says "I want x"

Assassine
05-22-2015, 12:41 AM
I actually quite like the idea, other than the usual queue-splitting problem inherent in any new format being added (which is not to be downplayed).


What do you mean "without the cost"? The proposed queue actually has terrible payout relative to the other options (input is 800p, output is 4 packs), so it's not going to eclipse the "real" tournaments.

Imagine youre at a fair, throwing darts at balloons. One go is 3$.
If the owner also offered you to play for 40 cents instead, but you could only win a very small price, which option would you choose? That depends on what you want. There would be people going for the prices and others just going for the fun of the game.
Would the owner be able to make a living from that second option? Probably not.

I know its not the best analogy, but it shows my thoughts. Im not an economics person and maybe im just wrong, but thats what i thought at the sight of this suggestion.

Oroniss
05-22-2015, 12:47 AM
This has come up a few times in the last year, and was actually something Cory addressed on his blog a while back:

http://coryhudsonjones.tumblr.com/post/76449580127/blog-post-number-2

Answer quoted here:

Question #6

Are there going to be a variety of different PVP options, including a budget friendly mode?

I think PVP will offer a VERY wide and enjoyable array of play options that don’t tap into spending money, not to mention simply playing constructed games with your buddies.

When it comes to limited play (draft, sealed, etc.) we have a pretty large number of formats and unique spins on it that we want to try (single elimination, marathon, asynchronous, etc.), but most revolve around actually purchasing cards. Currently we do not have a phantom draft in the plan.

We have tried to make this game actually have a free to play component that isn’t layered with invisible paywalls and other nonsense, but to make that work, a pretty traditional TCG business model is necessary when it comes to limited play.

End Quote.

That's not to say their thinking hasn't changed since then, but at the time it wasn't planned.

Yoss
05-22-2015, 09:40 AM
Imagine youre at a fair, throwing darts at balloons. One go is 3$.
If the owner also offered you to play for 40 cents instead, but you could only win a very small price, which option would you choose? That depends on what you want. There would be people going for the prices and others just going for the fun of the game.
Would the owner be able to make a living from that second option? Probably not.

I know its not the best analogy, but it shows my thoughts. Im not an economics person and maybe im just wrong, but thats what i thought at the sight of this suggestion.

Your example is very skewed to favor your viewpoint. It's more like, normal game is $3 and plays for 3 minutes, short game is $1 and plays for 1 minute. (Even that's not accurate, but is much closer to a correct comparison.)

NaryaDL0re
05-22-2015, 09:59 AM
Phantom events can work very well, as has been showcased in the past by other tcgs.

The questions are:

Are there better alternatives? Pve/pvp?

When is the playerbase big enough? (we are missing 8-4 drafts as well, but
currently you dont want to split the playerbase even further with too many formats)

Which formats should be phantom? You dont need one for every format, but it can work wonders for some.

How much do they actually cost? Enough to make it matter and incentives playing normal drafts.



If you I do a quick brainstorm I would expect/suggest something designed like this:

In the future when more than 1 block of limited exists and enough players play the game.
It makes sense to have rotating phantom draft formats as a gateway for new players / pve players,
as well as for the free to play / budget crowd that wants to slowly get into TCGs.

They should be non profitable or less profitable than other drafts/sealeds, so that the only incentive
is to get the "gameplay" experience for "cheap". So they cost something, but not a lot and reward nothing.

As long as its better "value" to play normal drafts, this is just a nice bonus options for people that strictly
prefer the limited experience without the high risk/reward/collection strings attached to it.

thats just a rough sketch, but I assume crypto has a much more thought out approach to this question.

Diesbudt
05-22-2015, 10:33 AM
Phantom events can work very well, as has been showcased in the past by other tcgs.

The questions are:

Are there better alternatives? Pve/pvp?

When is the playerbase big enough? (we are missing 8-4 drafts as well, but
currently you dont want to split the playerbase even further with too many formats)

Which formats should be phantom? You dont need one for every format, but it can work wonders for some.

How much do they actually cost? Enough to make it matter and incentives playing normal drafts.



If you I do a quick brainstorm I would expect/suggest something designed like this:

In the future when more than 1 block of limited exists and enough players play the game.
It makes sense to have rotating phantom draft formats as a gateway for new players / pve players,
as well as for the free to play / budget crowd that wants to slowly get into TCGs.

They should be non profitable or less profitable than other drafts/sealeds, so that the only incentive
is to get the "gameplay" experience for "cheap". So they cost something, but not a lot and reward nothing.

As long as its better "value" to play normal drafts, this is just a nice bonus options for people that strictly
prefer the limited experience without the high risk/reward/collection strings attached to it.

thats just a rough sketch, but I assume crypto has a much more thought out approach to this question.

Problem is even if it isnt profitable, if it is cheaper, it will pull away from the actual draft queues hurting it.

As posted before a few posts up, no plans to do this and probably will not be happening.

Yoss
05-22-2015, 03:20 PM
Problem is even if it isnt profitable, if it is cheaper, it will pull away from the actual draft queues hurting it.

As posted before a few posts up, no plans to do this and probably will not be happening.

If Hex had a billion players, we wouldn't worry about hurting the normal queues (just picking a huge number for illustration purposes). Post 8 actually lays out the trade space pretty nicely. It's not a slam dunk to do phantom events, but they should definitely be on the table for consideration with the right parameters in place.

Zophie
05-22-2015, 03:39 PM
Imagine youre at a fair, throwing darts at balloons. One go is 3$.
If the owner also offered you to play for 40 cents instead, but you could only win a very small price, which option would you choose?

Depends on how big the stuffed animal is that I can win.

http://i.imgur.com/fWln2IX.jpg

DoctorJack
05-22-2015, 04:00 PM
-challenging the arena is not fun. the champion powers are very strong, and the AI is very not smart. without a constructed deck a new player doesn't get very far, and the journey is simply not fun.
-free to pvp constructed is again not fun without cards. not knowing the content of the game and playing against experienced players is boring for both participants.
-the draft costs 3 packs and 100 platinum and is simply too high an investment for a new player. 4 hours to play is also a large block of time that isn't always available.

so my suggestion is a new quick draft:

100 platinum entry for an 8 person draft.
nobody keeps their drafted cards.
players only play one set.
winner gets a booster pack.
You have my vote, I actually suggested something very similar HERE (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=43234&page=5&p=487366&viewfull=1#post487366) before reading this.

N3rd4Christ
05-22-2015, 04:02 PM
Yeah, we've heard this idea before. Phantom Drafting.

Yoss
05-22-2015, 05:29 PM
Yeah, we've heard this idea before. Phantom Drafting.

I've never heard this particular flavor of it, but yes, the general idea has come up before.

momaro
05-24-2015, 06:42 PM
I'm new to trading card games, so i didn't know it's called a phantom draft. thanks for politely informing me :)

I do not "dislike" draft because of time or cost. I very much enjoy draft having spent $40 on it in 2 weeks. this suggestion was intended to provide an opportunity to allow people to play during the week if they have limited time to play. i can't be the only person with responsibilities that limit free time.

The fair analogy works if you go to the fair specifically to play darts, not to receive rewards at all. if the cheap dart game gave no reward, and the more expensive one gave rewards then sure.

This tournament wouldn't take away draft as the only way to add value to packs that you already have. spending packs to keep the contents as well as a chance to win more is obviously more value than just opening packs.

It is also good to remember that hex makes money off the sale of platinum. they don't make money when you open a pack, and they don't even make money when you trade. (they make money off the platinum that they take during trades, certainly. but this is beside the point). looked at from CZE perspective, they make 400P per player every time a draft fires. (24 packs in 12 packs out and 800p spent to participate, divided by 8.) "Going infinite" is possible when the market buys and sells the rewards. but this has literally nothing to do with CZE income. those 12 packs that are not created during the draft HAVE to have been paid for elsewhere. "going infinite" merely means somebody else is paying real money for you to be able to play.

it therefore makes no sense to suggest that if a method of spending platinum was popular that CZE would lose money because of it.

All of this doesn't matter though, since someone already said they aren't really intending to make a phantom draft. thanks for all the polite responses though :)