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RanaDunes
05-23-2015, 04:10 PM
That kickstarter tier is the biggest loser guys.
Even Guilt Master tier got their 90 Set 01 packs which is something... Dungeon Crawlers are using their bonus for more gold and loot from the Arena. Collector Tier is awesome and the backers are getting their rewards. Pro Tier as expected the best of all the tiers.

Anyone who chose this tier and is regretting it?
And to be honest even if their tier is working; I would say it's redundant. I am sure every content is going to be designed to be beaten without the Raid Leader Tier. There's a chance that PvE content is not going to be that hard to even make you think "Jees, I'm glad we had Raid Leader's blessing otherwise we'd have definitely failed!" I mean yeah it can help but how many times it's going to make a difference between Failure and Success? Since there's no reward in "over-killing" it I think? so all of this extra help might, and will, be just trivial and unnecessary.

The same applies to the +1 card advantage. The Raid Leader tier is only functional to a minimal part of the game. Just raids... I am sure dungeons and non-raid PvE content are going to take the majority of our PvE time while Raids are going to be something around the 10% range of our game-play time.

Aside from the "one free draft a week for a year" I think Raid Leader tier is the weakest.

What do you guys think?

israel.kendall
05-23-2015, 04:15 PM
I personally think patience is needed and believe all tiers will eventually get what they paid for, if not more.

nicosharp
05-23-2015, 04:18 PM
18 months of 1 free draft per week. Still can't complain really.

Ertzi
05-23-2015, 04:23 PM
I would not be surprised if Raid Leader ends up being one of the best tiers. Depends on how much more awesome the loot from raids is. A team of All-Raid Leaders with +3 cards is pretty bonkers in my opinion. And remember, everyone wants to play with Raid Leaders when they go for a raid. This alone is huge value.

Oroniss
05-23-2015, 06:17 PM
It's funny actually, but if you do the maths, collector tier is equivalent or even ahead of pro-player - you can sell the AAs for more than the cost of 1 draft per week, DC the value depends on how much arena you play but it is quite normal in 3-4 arena runs (i.e. 1 draft time wise) to get more than $4 worth of bonus loot/gold.

If the raid leader buff effectively replaces the need to buy an otherwise expensive consumable it could also end up being worth a lot, but we don't yet know enough about how they will implement it.

I actually like that the value of DC is based on how much PvE you play while the value of Collector and PP are fixed. If they make RL a time based thing I reckon it will all be good as well.

I do agree it is unfortunate that they haven't got their bonus yet, and I suspect that and GL are a big part of why they extended the free drafts.

Scammanator
05-23-2015, 06:34 PM
I'm a Raid Leader. I am not upset at all.

Pro players have not gotten a single thing that I haven't also received at this point.

And when Raids are available, I will have no problems finding people to play with. You can claim that any PvE content will be trivial all you want, but the nice thing about TCGs is that, with enough luck, nearly any deck can win. No one will be able to guarantee 100% win rate, and even if they somehow manage to get close, Raid Leader will help with the speed at which players can beat bosses.

People will always prefer a Raid Leader at their side, and that puts me in a prime position to make lots and lots of good friends. Everyone from top-level players looking for every advantage they can get, to newbies who could use a boost while they learn the ropes. People will want to play with me.

I didn't get the bonus for myself, I got it so that I could share it with others.

wolzarg
05-23-2015, 06:46 PM
I want to raid with you scammy! Make it so nr 1.

Yoss
05-23-2015, 09:01 PM
Pro Player is actually the worst so far. Their perk means nothing since everyone is still going on their 18 free months. Collector is the winner thus far.

Bombs
05-23-2015, 09:07 PM
As a Raid Leader backer, I am quite confident in the tier. By all reasoning, raids should hold the chasiest loot. Yes, raids will absolutely be able to be defeated through regular play. The Raid Leader tier brings a fun perk that will increase the probability of a successful run. In some cases, that perk will edge out a victory that would otherwise end in a loss. And in those cases, that's one more loot pinata thats cracked open for my friends and myself. If, for instance, items such as promo/AA star dusts only drop from from primal chests and raid bosses, I will be overjoyed with my decision. Plus, who doesn't like having more friends who want to raid with you?

magic_gazz
05-23-2015, 09:27 PM
Lowest value tier? Maybe

Still good value for what they paid? Very

Nothing more needs to be said.

nicosharp
05-23-2015, 09:46 PM
Pro Player is actually the worst so far. Their perk means nothing since everyone is still going on their 18 free months. Collector is the winner thus far.

That really depends on how many times the Dungeon Crawlers hit Uruunaz. :)

RCDv57
05-24-2015, 05:47 AM
Oh its this thread again.

I don't understand why people keep on insisting that I should be disappointed, I've actually stopped using my cool Raid Leader sleeves as a result. Would I prefer one of the other tiers? Probably. But that doesn't mean that I'm not having fun with what I have.

Who knows, Cory might do something extra special for us Raid Leaders for being so patient.
Even if he doesn't it is still going to be really cool once we get our stuff.

KingGabriel
05-24-2015, 05:51 AM
So far seems a 100% contentment rate :P

RCDv57
05-24-2015, 05:56 AM
So far seems a 100% contentment rate :P

Wait no.

I am so mad right now.
I just ate a cow.

Showsni
05-24-2015, 06:45 AM
I use my Raid Leader sleeves pretty much every opportunity I can. Getting my money's worth!

RCDv57
05-24-2015, 07:08 AM
Wait no.

I am so mad right now.
I just ate a cow.

Like the whole thing all at once.
http://i.imgur.com/RnWTlWe.png

Assassine
05-24-2015, 07:50 AM
The cow looks pretty happy considering its beeing eaten right now.

wolzarg
05-24-2015, 07:52 AM
Like the whole thing all at once.
http://i.imgur.com/RnWTlWe.png
Clearly that is a bull as it has horns you pleb!:rolleyes:

Also i actually don't know what a pleb is so if that's too harsh let me know :p

Mr.Funsocks
05-24-2015, 08:07 AM
Honestly, as a raid leader backer, I'm a little disappointed with the pace we're getting for the huge perk I paid for (when all the others are active in some form at this point). I'm also a little... I dunno... worried? Something... about how it's going to actually manifest in actual raids. Not that I don't think they'll honor the tier with something valid and awesome, but that they may have no idea what the actual raid leader bonus will be. They've changed so much about how PvE will work since the KS, and I can only imagine how much more will change once they get to actually playtesting raids in the game with whatever leveling system they build. I don't imagine that that one perk they promised 3+ years before the first raid comes out will be the right one to give.

Personally I'm hoping they just cancel the tier and allow us to swap to something else (which is what I've always hoped for), or change the perk from a power-based one. Any exclusive buff significant enough to be useful is going to cause issues for the game as a whole, and they had promised it as an exclusive buff, one that consumables of any sort would not provide.

Of course, on top of all that, I'm fine with what I bought - CZE has shown that they're a pretty damn great company, and do right by players whenever possible, and have developed a game, as a whole, that I love already. I just wish they'd speed up a bit towards the part I really wanted to play.

Mr.Funsocks
05-24-2015, 08:08 AM
Clearly that is a bull as it has horns you pleb!:rolleyes:

Also i actually don't know what a pleb is so if that's too harsh let me know :p

Shortened from "plebeian", the Roman word for a commoner. Often used as a class-based insult. Not really harsh unless you're a wealthy politician saying it ;)

RCDv57
05-24-2015, 09:30 AM
Clearly that is a bull as it has horns you pleb!:rolleyes:

Also i actually don't know what a pleb is so if that's too harsh let me know :p

Cows can have horns you quab :p

Yoss
05-24-2015, 01:08 PM
all the others are active in some form at this point
Pro Player isn't active yet, not until the other $250 tiers run out of freebies. The 6 month extension effectively delayed activation of Pro Player by that same amount. If RL get their perk before the end of the extension (unlikely but possible), then PP will actually be the last one to gain benefit.


I'm also a little... I dunno... worried? Something... about how it's going to actually manifest in actual raids. Not that I don't think they'll honor the tier with something valid and awesome, but that they may have no idea what the actual raid leader bonus will be. They've changed so much about how PvE will work since the KS, and I can only imagine how much more will change once they get to actually playtesting raids in the game with whatever leveling system they build. I don't imagine that that one perk they promised 3+ years before the first raid comes out will be the right one to give.

Personally I'm hoping they just cancel the tier and allow us to swap to something else (which is what I've always hoped for), or change the perk from a power-based one. Any exclusive buff significant enough to be useful is going to cause issues for the game as a whole, and they had promised it as an exclusive buff, one that consumables of any sort would not provide.

Of course, on top of all that, I'm fine with what I bought - CZE has shown that they're a pretty damn great company, and do right by players whenever possible, and have developed a game, as a whole, that I love already. I just wish they'd speed up a bit towards the part I really wanted to play.

I fully support these thoughts. The RL bonus has always bothered me as proposed in the KS. I hope Hex can find a way to make it awesome without being a direct and exclusive mechanical advantage in the game (change it to loot bonus, XP bonus, spawn consumables a la Lotus Garden, etc).

RCDv57
05-24-2015, 02:01 PM
... I hope Hex can find a way to make it awesome without being a direct and exclusive mechanical advantage in the game (change it to loot bonus, XP bonus, spawn consumables a la Lotus Garden, etc).

I'm hoping Raid leaders will get something cool with the "Play as the Raid Boss" feature that may or may not happen.

Xavon
05-24-2015, 02:28 PM
Where is the idea that Raid Leader only applies to Raids coming from? If there is a post to that effect, I missed it and would someone please point it out. Because the KS reward says "non-tournament PvE content". Which to me means all raids, dungeons, and potentially the Arena and the like, too. It might not have been added yet, like DC wasn't at first, but I expect to see it eventually.

Drake6k
05-24-2015, 03:18 PM
I guess raids are waiting on multi-player HEX games, something we've seen no previews of, right? They could temporarily activate the Raid Leader bonuses for single player PVE, but that would be pretty lame.

RCDv57
05-24-2015, 05:11 PM
I'm fairly certain that RL buff only applies to the actual raids themselves.
Thats how I remember it anyways.

Xavon
05-24-2015, 07:17 PM
I'm fairly certain that RL buff only applies to the actual raids themselves.
Thats how I remember it anyways.

Again, please provide proof, because the original description given is not limited in that respect.

Kami
05-24-2015, 07:22 PM
Again, please provide proof, because the original description given is not limited in that respect.

This is buried in the KS comments but basically a Q&A:

Q: Also, does the Raid Leader perk apply to dungeons, or only to raids?
A: Raid Leader perk does not apply to dungeons.

Xavon
05-24-2015, 07:25 PM
This is buried in the KS comments but basically a Q&A:

Q: Also, does the Raid Leader perk apply to dungeons, or only to raids?
A: Raid Leader perk does not apply to dungeons.

Ah, that sucks. Yeah, RLs definitely get the shaft, then.

Kami
05-24-2015, 07:28 PM
Ah, that sucks. Yeah, RLs definitely get the shaft, then.

Not necessarily. They've stated that some of the chasiest PvE stuff will only be available via Raids.

A lot of people underestimated Collector Tier too.

I suspect Guild Master tier will offer its own advantages as well.

Shivdaddy
05-24-2015, 10:18 PM
Anyone who has a kickstarter tier $250+ and complains about it, is ridiculous. The value is out of this world and we will never hear the end of it once the game goes full blown. We will have people posting about how its not fair for the REST OF OUR LIVES. I would rather have any of the other $250 tiers though :D.

Mr.Funsocks
05-25-2015, 12:43 AM
Anyone who has a kickstarter tier $250+ and complains about it, is ridiculous. The value is out of this world and we will never hear the end of it once the game goes full blown. We will have people posting about how its not fair for the REST OF OUR LIVES. I would rather have any of the other $250 tiers though :D.

Anyone who sees complaining here, is ridiculous. And apparently misuses commas!

Lafoote
05-25-2015, 02:02 PM
Not necessarily. They've stated that some of the chasiest PvE stuff will only be available via Raids.

A lot of people underestimated Collector Tier too.

I suspect Guild Master tier will offer its own advantages as well.

If GL xp counts toward your in dungeon perks, unlocking them even one encounter sooner could be quite powerful.

Aradon
05-25-2015, 08:04 PM
I don't think in-dungeon perks are a thing anymore. They reworked the might system, last we heard.

AstaSyneri
05-26-2015, 01:59 AM
I am a member of Raid Leader Anonymous. Yes, I'd love the RL tier to have any relevance right now, but that's primarily because that was a prime selling point for me. Set 3 previews just leave me cold, I am much, much more looking forward to dungeons and especially raids - they are the primary coop component of the game and that's what I like most.

Am I concerned? Not really. Cory has proven time and again that he is really trying to make the game fun and it's hardly likely that he'll forget the raid leaders. He'd be reminded in any case ;-).

I know currently it's a fine balance of getting new stuff out, aka money in, and delivering all the kickstarter promises. Hex is fun, and will continue to be so. In the meantime there is excellent other games to dig in (finally got some teeth into EU IV and Cities: Skylines).

RCDv57
05-26-2015, 05:47 AM
I am a member of Raid Leader Anonymous. Yes, I'd love the RL tier to have any relevance right now, but that's primarily because that was a prime selling point for me. Set 3 previews just leave me cold, I am much, much more looking forward to dungeons and especially raids - they are the primary coop component of the game and that's what I like most.

Am I concerned? Not really. Cory has proven time and again that he is really trying to make the game fun and it's hardly likely that he'll forget the raid leaders. He'd be reminded in any case ;-).

I know currently it's a fine balance of getting new stuff out, aka money in, and delivering all the kickstarter promises. Hex is fun, and will continue to be so. In the meantime there is excellent other games to dig in (finally got some teeth into EU IV and Cities: Skylines).

You could also try Etherlords (http://www.gog.com/game/etherlords_2) if you are really hungry for some PvE card action. It is fun, as you explore the world and find new cards to play with, and level up your hero and learn new skills. On the other hand the story is garbage, and it doesn't have any Co-Op. Also starting out a new campaign with the limited card pool is very difficult, while the bosses are pushovers once you've put your ultimate deck together.

Assassine
05-26-2015, 06:03 AM
It had its flaws, but Etherlords was fun.

RCDv57
05-26-2015, 06:36 AM
It had its flaws, but Etherlords was fun.

I remember making this really fun troopless Blue deck. I would play a card that made all the enemy troops attack, then another one where all damage I take gets reflected. All other cards were bounce spells or negate damage. It steamrolled through pretty much everything in campaign.

Assassine
05-26-2015, 08:37 AM
I dont even remember all of what i did, its been too long. I think my first playthrough i ran over everything with the huge troops that damage you as well (think Claw of the Mountain God). I also had one playthrough with a troopless deck that went for a Mind Blast(? something like that, deals damage depending on how many cards that target holds) oneshot.

Fred
05-26-2015, 10:00 AM
I personally think patience is needed and believe all tiers will eventually get what they paid for, if not more.

Patience is fine and all, however, there is a point where some people can run out of patience, especially given the initial promise:

http://i.imgur.com/vo5W1f0.png

This one line here is what irritates me the most. At one point, CZE thought they were months away from delivering a complete game, and started a Kickstarter campaign to fund it. 2 full years have passed since this moment and we have no idea how much longer we still have to wait until we see the original dream come to fruition.

That is the part that has me worried the most. It's one thing to miss a deadline by a couple of weeks or have a set delayed by a month, but targeting a release in 3 months, and then still being unable to deliver 2 years later, that's an order of magnitude more wrong. Heck, even the Obamacare website didn't get delayed that much.

It has me wondering... by the time we get the Dragon's Blood starter deck, will set 1 (where Uruunaz is featured) still be constructed legal?

Turtlewing
05-26-2015, 10:58 AM
This one line here is what irritates me the most. At one point, CZE thought they were months away from delivering a complete game, and started a Kickstarter campaign to fund it. 2 full years have passed since this moment and we have no idea how much longer we still have to wait until we see the original dream come to fruition.
legal?

Well, that in my opinion falls under the risk intrinsic to Kickstarter.

Hex is (as far as I know) CZE's first computer game, and being an online multiplayer game, it comes with a lot of complexity that's easy to underestimate. Their prior experience was with tabletop games, and they seem to have (like many first time entries into the major software product arena) assumed that the hard part was the thing they had a lot of familiarity with and that the software would be "the easy part" (or more precisely that development would be predictable and just a matter of hiring a few people with experience, not a source of countless unexpected issues to resolve).

It definitely sucks that this happened, and it is a failing of HexEnt's management. But it could have been a lot worse (they could have had to close doors on HexEnt when the KS funds ran out and there be no HEX today)

Gwaer
05-26-2015, 11:10 AM
Indeed, mistakes were made, especially about the predicted release time from the kickstarter. They've apologized for that. We're lucky so many people believe in this game, and have supported it through a development that has been so much more resource intensive than they imagined. Things are looking very good for this game to be released better than advertised, eventually, and that is much better than all of the kickstarter games that are funded but don't ever make it to release at all. Also, in an absolute sense, all of the $250 tiers paid for themselves even before their lifetime perks are activated, so it's very difficult to be upset about any of them.