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bootlace
05-24-2015, 07:43 AM
UPDATE: Congrats to Rarlig for winning the challenge with a time of 31:55, his contest winning deck and tips for playing it can be found here: http://www.hexprimal.com/pve-deck-tech-arena-speedrun-challenge-winner/.

----------------------------

With gold being in high demand these days and for the foreseeable future, we’re sure lots of people will be thinking of diving right back into the Frost Ring Arena. To make the grind more interesting, HexPrimal is having a small contest that should make things a bit more challenging and hopefully fun.

The contest is simple: we’re looking for the person who can complete a perfect arena run (15-0) in the shortest time possible. Note that you don’t need to do the first tier and even if you manage to wipe a loss from your record it doesn’t count as a perfect run.

Everyone probably has a favorite Arena speedrun deck by now, but whose brew is the fastest/most efficient we shall find out. It should also add some adrenaline to your grinding sessions as you’re trying to play as quickly as possible (and earn gold as quickly as possible ;D ) without making mistakes and maintain that perfect run.

Prizes:
Fastest Time: 1 Buccaneer AA Sleeve, 4 Shattered Destiny Booster, 2 Shards of Fate Booster, 1 Buccaneer AA

2nd Fastest Time: 1 Xentoth’s Inquisitor AA, 4 Shattered Destiny Booster, 2 Shards of Fate Booster, 1 Buccaneer AA

3rd Fastest Time: 4 Shattered Destiny Boosters, 2 Shards of Fate Boosters, 1 Buccaneer AA

Submission Deadline:

11:59PM PST May 31st

Additional Rules:
-You must record your run in video format and have it viewable to the public (on YouTube, Twitch, etc).
-The video must have been recorded from May 24th to May 31st 2015 – old videos won’t count.
-Video must be minimum 30 FPS.
-The run must be one continuous, uninterrupted, unedited playthrough.
-Timer starts when you press “Battle Champion” against the first opponent and ends when the screen break effect occurs when you beat the final boss in tier 4. There is no pausing or taking breaks allowed (even between opponents), if you do so, the timer must be kept running.
-We’ll be looking at time stamps between the above mentioned start/end times to confirm your submitted time.
-One player can only win one prize (so only your fastest entry will be counted).
-Don’t cheat (we’re sure there’s a lot of ways but don't be that guy).


Submission Format:
Submit your entries right here in this thread by 11:59 PM PST May 31st . It should look something like this:

In-Game Name: ____
Completion Time: ____
URL to Video:____

What If I Can’t Record/Upload Videos?
There are free screen capture software available like OBS (https://obsproject.com/) and guides to use (https://oc.tc/forums/topics/531a511512ca956f8700a54d) them- and it’s really easy to upload to YouTube. Now’s a good time as any to learn these easy tools and start sharing your fun Hex playthroughs and as a result also help promote Hex.

If you’d like to donate to the prize pool, let us know and we’ll add it right in.

We’ll be updating this thread with the leaderboard as submissions come in so you can see how you’re doing. Tiebreaker in case of equal time is whoever submits first. Have fun and may Kismet bless you with fortune!

Final Leaderboard:


1) Rarlig (31:55)

2) Berkeley (32:10)

3) Boomer (32:30)

4) Disorder (36:52)

5) Cephied (37:00)

6) Mars (37:33)

7) dbug (40:25)

8) Brynhildr (43:15)

9) Omnipotence (56:51)

10) Mormont (57:23)

Kami
05-24-2015, 07:51 AM
Just a note, unless they have a timer on screen in the video, you may want to enforce a minimum FPS of the video.

Otherwise, cutting a video down to say, 25fps would yield a faster 'video time' than a video at 30fps.

bootlace
05-24-2015, 08:03 AM
Just a note, unless they have a timer on screen in the video, you may want to enforce a minimum FPS of the video.

Otherwise, cutting a video down to say, 25fps would yield a faster 'video time' than a video at 30fps.

Thanks, updated.

AdamAoE2
05-24-2015, 09:54 AM
I'll start us off. :-)

In Game Name: Brynhildr
Completion Time: 43:15 (Run Starts at 3:14)
URL to Video: Hex Primal Speed Run (http://www.twitch.tv/brynhildrtcg/b/662346902)

***

Notable Moments:
24:30 (17:25 in video) - Topdeck of the Century
31:59 (28:45 in video) - XARRRRRLOOOOOOXXXXX!!!
34:52 (31:38 in video) - I hate you so much Hogarth.

wolzarg
05-24-2015, 05:53 PM
Interesting time to bring out my speed deck and see if i can get under my previous record of 38min. Question tho do i have to have a clock visible at all times or is that just something fancy to make it look better?

Diesbudt
05-24-2015, 05:56 PM
Interesting time to bring out my speed deck and see if i can get under my previous record of 38min. Question tho do i have to have a clock visible at all times or is that just something fancy to make it look better?

I bet clock all times show it can show the video was actually completed at the end of arena and no FPS manipulation to make it seem less.

wolzarg
05-24-2015, 07:40 PM
Well that was interesting doing good time then paladin chains eternal youth to 80 hp. "Oh well i can still do this no worries" Angel keeps dropping lifedrain troop after lifedrain troop. "ITS FINE I GOT THIS" Eldrithch dreamer buccaner x3 into timeripple x3 into tap all my creatures. "Well its possible i can still do this lets keep working."
Final boss xarlox chronic madness x2 right off the bat two spiders turn 2... end result 54 minutes and a horror show of a run to tell about.

bootlace
05-24-2015, 09:39 PM
Interesting time to bring out my speed deck and see if i can get under my previous record of 38min. Question tho do i have to have a clock visible at all times or is that just something fancy to make it look better?

Visible clock is a nice thing to have if you can put it on but we didn't make it a requirement as it can be difficult for people new to recording to do.

Cephied
05-24-2015, 09:51 PM
Ign: Cephied
Completion time: 37:00
Deck used: Mono Ruby Orcs

http://www.twitch.tv/cephied0/v/5418281

Don't have a timer running, but can check twitch video playback stats showing the 30FPS.

Got lucky never running into warbot, while paladin didn't take a diamond and Xarlox didn't proc an egg. Challenges were also tame (command tower, hidden traps, inferno).

(Sorry about the sound, some feedback that I noticed but didn't bother fixing since I already started the run)

CaravelBoomer
05-25-2015, 11:41 AM
Oooh challenge :)

Current best is around 50 minutes but that was for a video where I wasn't attempting to speedrun, this is gonna be gud :)

Is WSplit ok to use?

bootlace
05-25-2015, 11:56 AM
Oooh challenge :)

Current best is around 50 minutes but that was for a video where I wasn't attempting to speedrun, this is gonna be gud :)

Is WSplit ok to use?

You can use whatever program you want, just make sure it's min 30 FPS.

CaravelBoomer
05-25-2015, 12:31 PM
You can use whatever program you want, just make sure it's min 30 FPS.

Thanks, I record local in 60fps so it shouldn't be a problem, will check stream settings but 30fps should be easy

Mormont
05-25-2015, 04:04 PM
In-Game Name: Mormont
Completion Time: 57:23
URL to Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MxMb97ydQ

Lefto
05-26-2015, 11:16 AM
Nice contest ;) Here's my first entry:

In-Game Name: Omnipotence
Completion Time: 56:51
URL to Video: I hate you PALADIN OF NAAGAAN! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxbjUKal1oQ)

Edit: Made another successful attempt at 49minutes URL: https://youtu.be/RQoKz0oQAoU

CaravelBoomer
05-26-2015, 02:03 PM
ARRRRRRRRRRRGHHHH!!!

I had a sub-35 minute run going and Eurig dreamcrushed me at 14-0!! (Well more accurate my deck dreamcrushed me, my first 4 draws were shards and he turn 3 Ingenuity'd when I started the game at 32:00 dead pretty much)

For the moment though

In-Game Name: Boomer
Completion Time: 44:41
URL to Video: http://www.twitch.tv/caravelgaming/c/6748060

Back with more tomorrow!!

dbug
05-27-2015, 01:07 AM
Nice idea! Here is my try

In-Game Name: dBug
Completion Time: 40:25
URL to Video: https://youtu.be/hNkRRZyBXss

CaravelBoomer
05-27-2015, 02:48 PM
Improved my time tonight but may be reaching my competence limit

In-Game Name: Boomer
Completion Time: 40:47
URL to Video: http://www.twitch.tv/caravelgaming/c/6753142

MarS
05-28-2015, 11:00 AM
My best run so far...

In-Game Name: Mars
Completion Time: 37:33
URL to Video: https://youtu.be/sVUlbuy2yxk

12:00 Tier 2 finished
23:20 awesome Cory, +30 sec evil Cory
25:00 Tier 3 finished
37:33 Run finished

In the beginning I have some lag in the video, but it gets better.

Showsni
05-28-2015, 11:33 AM
I want to try, but I can't get halfway through a run without my computer crashing :(

wolzarg
05-28-2015, 12:57 PM
I'm having similar problems my loading times between things actually eat up enough time that placing in the top is unfeasible making me pass on this but wish everyone the best of luck and commending the top players.

CaravelBoomer
05-28-2015, 01:17 PM
I've gotta get those 17 seconds!!!

Then I'll concentrate on the 3 more minutes :(

HitoZ
05-29-2015, 07:12 AM
41:58. Won't upload just yet in case i get a better result (i also have a slow upload). I faced both Warbot and Xarlox which are both quite a pain for me like many others i'd asume.

Koz
05-29-2015, 07:32 AM
I can't compete in this because my game locks up every single time the AI plays a Crackling Vortex and then attacks on the same turn. Every time.

Xenavire
05-29-2015, 07:46 AM
I can't compete in this because my game locks up every single time the AI plays a Crackling Vortex and then attacks on the same turn. Every time.

Spacebar.

Koz
05-29-2015, 07:50 AM
Spacebar.

Does that work? Well hot damn!!! You just made my day!

Xenavire
05-29-2015, 08:01 AM
Does that work? Well hot damn!!! You just made my day!

Yep, Spacebar passes priority without needing to have a priority button on the screen. The F-hotkeys can also force the game to proceed. Check your options and set them to whatever buttons you want, and it will make life a lot easier.

Koz
05-29-2015, 08:07 AM
Yep, Spacebar passes priority without needing to have a priority button on the screen. The F-hotkeys can also force the game to proceed. Check your options and set them to whatever buttons you want, and it will make life a lot easier.

Thank you! Excellent info for a newer player, much appreciated!

CaravelBoomer
05-29-2015, 01:31 PM
41:58. Won't upload just yet in case i get a better result (i also have a slow upload). I faced both Warbot and Xarlox which are both quite a pain for me like many others i'd asume.

So much about getting a quick run relies on RNG in your favour:

Be it in the form of challenges which don't add 2 turns to the game, getting the "+1 Resouce" or "Arena Brawler" reward vs bosses, not having Xarlox Terrorantula your ass out of the game on turn 3

Had 4 runs tonight which all looked to be heading towards the 35 minute mark but got that ONE flood etc, which is actually what makes this challenge hard because you can see the awesome run but sometimes you just can't make it

Happy to say though just got one right and uploading now :)

Showsni
05-29-2015, 05:46 PM
Hey, I managed a non crashy run! Now to improve on it.

In-Game Name: Berkeley
Completion Time: 38:19
URL to Video: http://www.twitch.tv/showsni/b/664065830

CaravelBoomer
05-30-2015, 07:43 AM
Upload finally complete on Youtube, it'll be in HD soon I guess but it's playable now

In-Game Name: Boomer
Completion Time: 36:20
URL to Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEMKEx7ZZf4

Showsni
05-30-2015, 09:18 AM
Hey, I managed to improve it.

In-Game Name: Berkeley
Completion Time: 34:41
URL to Video: http://www.twitch.tv/showsni/b/664267483 (Video contains an abortive first attempt, too - real run starts at 4:58 in)

CaravelBoomer
05-30-2015, 09:36 AM
Me too :)

In-Game Name: Boomer
Completion Time: 32:30
URL to Video: http://youtu.be/JPJq7HHRKdA

Encoding atm but will be available soon, good comp this :)

bootlace
05-30-2015, 11:56 AM
Super impressive times guys, well done!

wolzarg
05-30-2015, 03:44 PM
Not calling anyone out on cheating here but boomer has noticeably faster animations than me on most things is that a hardware thing on my end or something else?

Diesbudt
05-30-2015, 03:47 PM
Not calling anyone out on cheating here but boomer has noticeably faster animations than me on most things is that a hardware thing on my end or something else?

Possibly. Does he have a clock ticking down? Regardless of systems that will time the same rate. So if he is timing it like that, then most likely legit.

CaravelBoomer
05-30-2015, 03:52 PM
Not calling anyone out on cheating here but boomer has noticeably faster animations than me on most things is that a hardware thing on my end or something else?

I have WSplit recording the time on the right hand side, even including split times where you can see my mouse move over to it, so it's totally legit

It was recorded using XSplit live and the actual video itself is shorter than 33 minutes without any cutting, there's no sound because I was watching/listening to a video live and didn't want it picked up because I was assuming this was going to take me a very long time to beat my original 36 minutes

Additionally it may look faster on Youtube because I recorded it at 60fps so it's a lot smoother than a 30fps video, especially on Twitch

As far as animations being quicker I do have a pretty good PC for recording this stuff on (FX-8350, GTX770, 16GB RAM etc) and I'm on a 40/10 internet connection so Hex runs as smooth as anything with absolutely no lag at all

It was a very lucky run, no Xarlox, no War Bot, Elf got mana screwed, only got mana issues once, got the +1 resource reward twice. Pretty much perfect (aside from a missed lethal which cost me 30 seconds and the fact that towards the end I knew I had a good time and misclicked on Brutal Commander twice)

I've re-watched it back and it's weird how the repetition lead to shortcuts like knowing where to look for my Brutal Commander targets etc in the deck, getting thinking time as close to 0 as possible and there are definitely a few "F It!! F4!!" attacks in there as well

Before I did that run I thought 35 minutes dead would be about as fast as possible but now I'm actually thinking that absolute perfection would get very close to 30 minutes dead

Jemy000
05-30-2015, 08:41 PM
I also noticed the faster animations in some player's videos. I even ran a stopwatch on one to make sure their timer was accurate and it was. Unfortunately it seems that top end hardware is the most important qualification for this challenge. My computer is no slouch, but it is quite literally impossible for me to match the top posted times.

Showsni
05-30-2015, 08:45 PM
Managed a 33:51, including a turn 2 win on Cory. I think I might have to tweak my deck a bit to try and get some faster times...

Bloodslave
05-30-2015, 09:12 PM
I also noticed the faster animations in some player's videos. I even ran a stopwatch on one to make sure their timer was accurate and it was. Unfortunately it seems that top end hardware is the most important qualification for this challenge. My computer is no slouch, but it is quite literally impossible for me to match the top posted times.

I suspected this as well and can confirm. I'm running hex on an older lap top and even with spamming hot keys by the time i finish the second turn other players are already defeating the opposing champion.

edit: Just finished a 42 min run. It takes about 3-5 seconds longer for each of my games to start than it did in boomer's video. Add in small hang ups in rendering animations and I spent a lot of time just waiting after putting in a chain of commands.

CaravelBoomer
05-31-2015, 02:28 AM
Managed a 33:51, including a turn 2 win on Cory. I think I might have to tweak my deck a bit to try and get some faster times...

Best of luck, this has been a really good competition and thanks to the guys at Hex Primal as well

Showsni
05-31-2015, 01:14 PM
In-Game Name: Berkeley
Completion Time: 32:10
URL to Video: http://www.twitch.tv/showsni/b/664664386 (Last run on the video, starts at the 1:16:50 mark)

Phew, that took a while.

CaravelBoomer
05-31-2015, 01:20 PM
Congratulations, my screw up in missing lethal's cost me but well done

bootlace
05-31-2015, 01:22 PM
In-Game Name: Berkeley
Completion Time: 32:10
URL to Video: http://www.twitch.tv/showsni/b/664664386 (Last run on the video, starts at the 1:16:50 mark)

Phew, that took a while.

Well done Showsni. Were you even making use of the F10 end the turn button or was it pure clicking madness through the steps?? xD

Showsni
05-31-2015, 01:25 PM
Well done Showsni. Were you even making use of the F10 end the turn button or was it pure clicking madness through the steps?? xD

Clicky clicky clicky. :P F10 is too hard to reach! I did turn off most of the stops to make it quicker, but I don't think F10 saves much time, as I'm sure I'd mess up trying to move my hand between F4 and F10.

CaravelBoomer
05-31-2015, 01:29 PM
Would like to compare decks at some point :)

I'm pretty sure we were only about 2-3 cards off each other but would be interesting

HitoZ
05-31-2015, 01:45 PM
Me too :)

In-Game Name: Boomer
Completion Time: 32:30
URL to Video: http://youtu.be/JPJq7HHRKdA

Encoding atm but will be available soon, good comp this :)


Impressive, though i do have to say you could have been ~30 seconds faster. Missed lethal at 7:30 cost you 20 seconds, and indecisions what to take from brutal commanders in the last two games came close to 10 seconds.

Other than that, i don't see how anyone could get a faster result.

CaravelBoomer
05-31-2015, 02:01 PM
Impressive, though i do have to say you could have been ~30 seconds faster. Missed lethal at 7:30 cost you 20 seconds, and indecisions what to take from brutal commanders in the last two games came close to 10 seconds.

Other than that, i don't see how anyone could get a faster result.

Yeah that missed lethal was brutal knew it as soon as I'd done it, about 20 seconds gone, and it wasn't indecision, I just misclicked because I didn't see which Commander I was getting so yeah few seconds here or there but Showsni did beat me so grats to him

order
05-31-2015, 08:15 PM
Had to make an account for this!

IGN: Disorder
Time: 36:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSkInetiowI

essif
05-31-2015, 11:02 PM
Seems I went a different route than most of the orc rush decks :)

IGN: Rarlig
Time: 31:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw461cDhn_g

bootlace
05-31-2015, 11:29 PM
Last 30 minutes before an entry can be submitted.

nicosharp
05-31-2015, 11:59 PM
Seems I went a different route than most of the orc rush decks :)

IGN: Rarlig
Time: 31:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw461cDhn_g

Nice snipe Rarlig - good stuff!

dogmod
06-01-2015, 12:25 AM
Seems I went a different route than most of the orc rush decks :)

IGN: Rarlig
Time: 31:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw461cDhn_g

Very nice deck... xocoy and brutal commander what a wombo combo

essif
06-01-2015, 01:21 AM
Nice snipe Rarlig - good stuff!

I was a bit afraid to post it ealier. I believe it can do significantly better, properly in the 25-27 min range within a somewhat sane amount of tries.

I did not think about changing priorety stops, that could properly shave of 20-30 secs for no extra effort. My run also did not have many 1:30 wins, though I also avoided drawn out games (the xarlox first draw egg was scary).

If it has any interest I'll make a quick writeup of the deck. It is less consistent than the orc rush, and will get 15-0 less often, but it is fast as hell :)

dogmod
06-01-2015, 01:30 AM
I was a bit afraid to post it ealier. I believe it can do significantly better, properly in the 25-27 min range within a somewhat sane amount of tries.

I did not think about changing priorety stops, that could properly shave of 20-30 secs for no extra effort. My run also did not have many 1:30 wins, though I also avoided drawn out games (the xarlox first draw egg was scary).

If it has any interest I'll make a quick writeup of the deck. It is less consistent than the orc rush, and will get 15-0 less often, but it is fast as hell :)

I never thought I would need a fast computer for hex ;o... This feels a bit like the old days of UO where the faster your internet connection was the faster the game would play.

Weltenbrand
06-01-2015, 03:19 AM
I had a successful run in the 36 min range (with hotkeys), but OBS screwed it up. However in the end i felt i cant compete due to my bad latency here. A 2 min per game seems possible for me using all the tricks and with a close to server internet connection.

bootlace
06-01-2015, 05:37 AM
Hey everyone thanks for participating, the challenge is now over. Congrats to Rarlig for the 31:55 time and winning the first HexPrimal PvE Speedrun Challenge and taking home the Buccaneer AA Sleeve!

We appreciate everyone who participated and have sent something small your way for the effort you put in to take part.

Overall, the Xocoy/Brutal Commander deck seems by far the most popular/efficient for speedruns. We hope future dungeons or new cards/equipment or harder difficulty modes changes this trend somewhat as it's not exactly the most interesting PvE meta to just have one optimal deck. Also hopefully in the distant future there can be a timer in-game that ignores the sync/animations to help those on slower computer and allows people to save their times to some in-game leaderboard to make this kind of competition more accessible to everyone.

Hope you had fun and if you're still in search for a Buccaneer AA Sleeve lookout for future contests - we've just started a new one on our site that's much easier to participate...you can check that out here: Review Your Favorite Hex Cards Giveaway (http://www.hexprimal.com/review-your-favorite-hex-cards-giveaway/)

Showsni
06-01-2015, 06:02 AM
Wow, sweet deck rarlig! I just managed a 30:46 with it on my first attempt. Definitely a fast build.

essif
06-01-2015, 12:12 PM
I took the sleeves for a spin and managed 31:12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXcKpZo8QhU
Still plenty room for improvement though

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 12:28 PM
I took the sleeves for a spin and managed 31:12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXcKpZo8QhU
Still plenty room for improvement though

I know I've had a run sub-30mins. My PC is fast and I am super efficient now with both card selecting and hotkeys. I know because I've had to train myself to do arena runs with 1 hand, and typically 1 finger while feeding a baby in the other :)

Nice changes again Rarlig - I love the addition of Jags. My first run with your deck was a perfect (at least what I think your decklist was), I didn't watch the video before I made it, based it on our ventrilo convo. I think overall, it may have some more long-term inefficiencies, but Fiendish Cabalist change also helps you get to/through the late game.

Elwinz
06-01-2015, 12:30 PM
INterewsting deck can you post deck list Rarlig?

Diesbudt
06-01-2015, 01:47 PM
Hey everyone thanks for participating, the challenge is now over. Congrats to Rarlig for the 31:55 time and winning the first HexPrimal PvE Speedrun Challenge and taking home the Buccaneer AA Sleeve!

We appreciate everyone who participated and have sent something small your way for the effort you put in to take part.

Overall, the Xocoy/Brutal Commander deck seems by far the most popular/efficient for speedruns. We hope future dungeons or new cards/equipment or harder difficulty modes changes this trend somewhat as it's not exactly the most interesting PvE meta to just have one optimal deck. Also hopefully in the distant future there can be a timer in-game that ignores the sync/animations to help those on slower computer and allows people to save their times to some in-game leaderboard to make this kind of competition more accessible to everyone.

Hope you had fun and if you're still in search for a Buccaneer AA Sleeve lookout for future contests - we've just started a new one on our site that's much easier to participate...you can check that out here: Review Your Favorite Hex Cards Giveaway (http://www.hexprimal.com/review-your-favorite-hex-cards-giveaway/)

Problem is, when it comes to speed clearing, there will always be an optimal way or deck. So it shouldn't be surprised that once known everyone uses it. It will be the same forever. This is why I enjoy Alucards sunday arena runs where it is a race with wacky added deck building rules.

Halsey
06-02-2015, 12:15 AM
I didn't manage a sub 45 minute run, but want to thank you for the challenge anyway. Had a lot of fun attempting it, played with some decks I'd been meaning to try out and had a blast. I also learned a lot about how OBS works. I guess that means I could stream if I ever feel the need, but really I find it nice to know I can record the games easily now, with dates and timers, and other information if I choose.

bootlace
06-02-2015, 01:42 AM
I didn't manage a sub 45 minute run, but want to thank you for the challenge anyway. Had a lot of fun attempting it, played with some decks I'd been meaning to try out and had a blast. I also learned a lot about how OBS works. I guess that means I could stream if I ever feel the need, but really I find it nice to know I can record the games easily now, with dates and timers, and other information if I choose.

That's awesome to hear Halsey. Make sure to check out Alucard's race league (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=42445) if you ever feel the need to sharpen those new skills in a casual format.

bootlace
06-02-2015, 01:49 AM
Problem is, when it comes to speed clearing, there will always be an optimal way or deck. So it shouldn't be surprised that once known everyone uses it. It will be the same forever.

Figuring out the optimal deck today with a vanilla PvE experience we've had for 3 months, with mediocre AI, low difficulty, limited pool of PvE cards/mercenaries/equipment/gems might seem easy (although even now Rarlig's list seems different than most of the Orc rush decks I've seen) but it doesn't mean it's always going to be like this.

There's a ton that HexEnt could do (should do if they want their content to have longevity) to mix things up whether it be something as crude as a combo ban to something more elegant like boss phases to weed out 1 dimensional strategies. Today's meta is simply to find the fastest faceroll deck, in the future it will most likely be a much more complex problem for PvE deckbuilders to figure out.

HitoZ
06-02-2015, 02:13 AM
Figuring out the optimal deck today with a vanilla PvE experience we've had for 3 months, with mediocre AI, low difficulty, limited pool of PvE cards/mercenaries/equipment/gems might seem easy (although even now Rarlig's list seems different than most of the Orc rush decks I've seen) but it doesn't mean it's always going to be like this.

There's a ton that HexEnt could do (should do if they want their content to have longevity) to mix things up whether it be something as crude as a combo ban to something more elegant like boss phases to weed out 1 dimensional strategies. Today's meta is simply to find the fastest faceroll deck, in the future it will most likely be a much more complex problem for PvE deckbuilders to figure out.

If you're talking about mechanic wise then i think blizz did fairly good with implementing pve boss fights. Every boss has a different mechanic so you have to build your deck around it. Though in hex that could be a problem to do, at least in arena since you have a sequence of 15-20 bosses to beat with only 1 deck.

bootlace
06-02-2015, 02:56 AM
If you're talking about mechanic wise then i think blizz did fairly good with implementing pve boss fights. Every boss has a different mechanic so you have to build your deck around it. Though in hex that could be a problem to do, at least in arena since you have a sequence of 15-20 bosses to beat with only 1 deck.

The Hearthstone boss mechanics are certainly interesting the first time around as they require you to craft a very specific deck (and there's more than one way to beat the specific problem). For example the Emperor Thaurissan encounter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6wCaLyq4g) where you must keep his wife from dieing can be approached from numerous angles and it's interesting to figure that out (although heroic modes often boil down to getting the perfect opening hand RNG and that's not really fun).

These types of puzzles I imagine will be even more interesting in Hex since we have way more deck building possibilities/permutations when you factor in equipment/mercs/gems and of course cards. Obviously they can do this kind of stuff in raids, but even in dungeons they can have wacky bosses like this since we'll be able to swap-in a totally separate mercenary decks (if that's still the plan, things might have changed).

But as far as the speed run thing goes, I think it's more about having a smart AI, turning up the difficulty level, and having varied opponents. I don't exactly think the normal difficulty level should be balanced or built with speedrunners in mind but harder difficulty levels where the better loot rates will be (and hence grinders) should definitely take into account not providing one obvious strategy that provides best optimization. People grinding gold will always look for the most optimal strategy and you want there to be some thought/skill/challenge to achieve that high level of play.

MMO dungeons usually have some sort of 'tests' they put the player/group through where if you don't have enough DPS the boss enrages, or if you don't have a good tank/healer you can't proceed, and similar checks in Hex hard mode dungeons for players' decks could encourage more balanced and hence varied decks. Scripted boss phases which is already planned, definitely seems like the type of thing that will prevent you from just using some faceroll aggro deck.

Even having some cards/equipment/mercs that increased your drop rate at the cost of deck power could add much interesting gameplay (like D3 magic find gear) for players looking for optimal PvE grinding.

Diesbudt
06-02-2015, 07:11 AM
It doesn't matter how good the AI gets, how hard the PvE gets, how many new ideas or cards get added into the game.

When it comes to a single "encounter" there will ALWAYS be an optimum way to do things, just takes some time to figure it out. In Hex case, since you cannot change deck mid run or change cards out mid run (at least that's still the idea from what I heard) a whole dungeon should be considered as a single "encounter". So there will always be 1 deck that outperforms all others, whether slightly or vastly. There is a reason top guilds in WoW required 5 shamans in BC expansion. There is a reason early WoD a monk healer was required by top guilds. It is because there is always a "best" way to do something.

Difference with those other games though is you can change deck/setup in between fights / card matchs.

The only way to hold something like this and it be "interesting" is

1) Do it the minute something new comes out, as the best decks are still being explored so you will see variety as people look for that one deck.
2) Have submissions sent to you directly and not have videos posted to see what other players are using during the run timeline.
3) Make restrictions if #1 isn't adhered to. Like in this case, if you abolished the use of Ruby cards, there would have been a higher probability of different decks as no Ruby = no dwarve speed deck and no mono Ruby orcs.

The reason alucards thing works so well is it is a race at a single moment and the rules are displayed to everyone all at once at the start. So there isn't time to discover the best combos.

RamzaBehoulve
06-02-2015, 07:50 AM
I don't think it would be particularly difficult for HexEnt to add challenges to PvE, whether it is Frost Ring Arena or dungeons/raids. Random card bans, even more random enemy decks, more special challnges...

Just imagine the current Frost Ring Arena with 20 more different decks in the pool to combat. It would be almost impossible to find one deck that perfects it constantly. You'll need some luck to get a perfect. They also add hardcore modes, more tiers, whatever.

I'm really not worried about keeping PvE interesting. That's the easy part somewhat. What's challenging is keeping track of all cards and keep things somewhat well balanced all around.

bootlace
06-02-2015, 08:23 AM
It doesn't matter how good the AI gets, how hard the PvE gets, how many new ideas or cards get added into the game.

When it comes to a single "encounter" there will ALWAYS be an optimum way to do things, just takes some time to figure it out. In Hex case, since you cannot change deck mid run or change cards out mid run (at least that's still the idea from what I heard) a whole dungeon should be considered as a single "encounter". So there will always be 1 deck that outperforms all others, whether slightly or vastly.


There's way too many possible permutations and variables for us to easily determine the most optimal deck assuming good dungeon/game design. The difference can be so slight that you could min-max every single factor in your deck and perhaps playstyle and still not be sure what is the optimal deck because there's also too many variables in play to make accurate tests.

Even if you managed to do all this it would take loads of time and that's the fun of it anyways, to theorize/test/tinker and find what's optimal. If there's a clear winner they can ban a card or combo and then return the meta back to some grey area where you're not sure which deck is really optimal, similar to the PvP meta which itself takes weeks/months to shape.

There's so many things they could do to add even more variables and dynamic factors if they wanted to (like a boss' ability changing depending on what % of the last 100 players played a certain card/shard in their deck).

dogmod
06-02-2015, 09:41 AM
It doesn't matter how good the AI gets, how hard the PvE gets, how many new ideas or cards get added into the game.

When it comes to a single "encounter" there will ALWAYS be an optimum way to do things, just takes some time to figure it out. In Hex case, since you cannot change deck mid run or change cards out mid run (at least that's still the idea from what I heard) a whole dungeon should be considered as a single "encounter". So there will always be 1 deck that outperforms all others, whether slightly or vastly. There is a reason top guilds in WoW required 5 shamans in BC expansion. There is a reason early WoD a monk healer was required by top guilds. It is because there is always a "best" way to do something.

Difference with those other games though is you can change deck/setup in between fights / card matchs.

The only way to hold something like this and it be "interesting" is

1) Do it the minute something new comes out, as the best decks are still being explored so you will see variety as people look for that one deck.
2) Have submissions sent to you directly and not have videos posted to see what other players are using during the run timeline.
3) Make restrictions if #1 isn't adhered to. Like in this case, if you abolished the use of Ruby cards, there would have been a higher probability of different decks as no Ruby = no dwarve speed deck and no mono Ruby orcs.

The reason alucards thing works so well is it is a race at a single moment and the rules are displayed to everyone all at once at the start. So there isn't time to discover the best combos.

Everyone thought they had figured out the optimal deck. Then Rarlig iterated and won.

Xexist
06-02-2015, 11:23 AM
Everyone thought they had figured out the optimal deck. Then Rarlig iterated and won.

Since he posted that I managed to beat his time by almost 6 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

essif
06-02-2015, 12:12 PM
I totally clicked that link :)

Xexist
06-02-2015, 12:17 PM
I totally clicked that link :)

Sorry bro I couldnt help myself

Stok3d
06-02-2015, 04:44 PM
I'm telling a mod on you! (yep, I clicked it too)

bootlace
06-03-2015, 05:40 AM
Rarlig/essif was kind enough to share the secret sauce behind his competition winning deck, we've published it here for those interested:

http://www.hexprimal.com/pve-deck-tech-arena-speedrun-challenge-winner/

Salverus
06-03-2015, 05:50 AM
Thanks for the article

nicosharp
06-03-2015, 09:34 AM
Great article. Thanks Bootlace.

wolzarg
06-03-2015, 12:50 PM
Personally i run blood and while i wouldn't even bother trying to hit sub 30 with it, its absurdly consistent which i have to guess that blitz list isn't. So for this contest that list is probably optimal but if we are talking gold grind a more consistent list that does it in 35 or so seems like a better bet.

Congratulations to everyone for not only shattering my dreams of competing but also shattering speed records left and right. May the speed force be always in your favor.

Saeijou
06-03-2015, 01:20 PM
Personally i run blood and while i wouldn't even bother trying to hit sub 30 with it, its absurdly consistent which i have to guess that blitz list isn't. So for this contest that list is probably optimal but if we are talking gold grind a more consistent list that does it in 35 or so seems like a better bet.

Congratulations to everyone for not only shattering my dreams of competing but also shattering speed records left and right. May the speed force be always in your favor.

well... regarding consistency... make a speedrun with perfect 3 runs in a row... but i guess few people will participate xD

vickrpg
06-03-2015, 01:32 PM
Rarlig's deck is a lot of fun. I've run a good 7-8 runs with it now and the only thing that stopped me was Nelebrin's scout and his God draws. He did it to me twice in a row:

T1: Shard, Passive Power Procs. Chloro, Passive Power Procs . Chloro, Passive Power Procs. Howling Brave. Howling Brave.
T2:,Shard, Fist.
T3: Fist

At this point I already lost. One of the two times he gigantified one of his fists just to laugh at me.

Salverus
06-04-2015, 01:21 AM
whaha against blood sphynx i chose to double the crimson clarity if played (his passive).
Then on turn 2 played it, received 6/2 resources, played blademaster and brutal commander, turn 2 win :D

FoundInTheFlood
11-14-2015, 01:00 AM
Where are all the non-winner decks? Would have liked to check some out, but the videos on Twitch don't exist anymore (at least from deck 2)

HouseSteiner
02-04-2016, 02:21 PM
Was the winner's deck (http://www.hexprimal.com/pve-deck-tech-arena-speedrun-challenge-winner/#comment-27547) ever improved with the new PVE cards? And against the new AI? I guess for bad starts the new Adaptabot or what his name is would be good. Any chance on getting an improved version with the new cards?

nicosharp
02-04-2016, 02:24 PM
This challenge has lost a bit of relevance now, but Adaptatron might not be the best inclusion for a "speed-run" deck due to the activation time required to pump it.

Mono-Ruby Slaughtergear's is an exceptional deck, and I was clocking close to 20minute runs with it prior to the PvE patch. There are only a few new cards I would consider, and one of them is the new 2/1 burning guy. The new equipment for Crimson Clarity might be a hot one too.

Ditsch
02-04-2016, 02:28 PM
The equipment for crimson clarity doesn't work and always locks my match when I want to play it.

nicosharp
02-04-2016, 02:29 PM
The equipment for crimson clarity doesn't work and always locks my match when I want to play it.

Yeah, It's busted right now. Maybe it will work in 6 months though :)

Ditsch
02-04-2016, 02:34 PM
Thanks nicosharp so i don't need to find the problem on my side haha. :)

Yoss
02-04-2016, 02:54 PM
Yay for 8 month old threads?

NOBLEStarshield
02-05-2016, 12:18 PM
Please don't necro old threads.