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Sparrow
05-28-2015, 02:51 AM
I've come to the conclusion that AH boosters are overpriced by about 5 to 10%.

I bought 48 boosters earlier this week from the store @ 200 plat each. With those I received 2 primal packs, which I then sold on the AH for around 2000 plat each. So, the 48 boosters I purchased ended up costing me about 117p each. Even if I had just received 1 primal the price would have been 158p.

If the primal drop rate is 1 in 50, then that would work out to 160p, on average. I see no reason to buy boosters on the AH until the price comes down to below 160p.

Cernz
05-28-2015, 02:54 AM
ok :)

poizonous
05-28-2015, 02:57 AM
Well I have bought 100 packs from store with 0 primals, so i overspent by a ton, not everyone is so lucky with primal procs

Warrender
05-28-2015, 03:13 AM
If you feel the boosters are over-priced, you are more than welcome to list yours for the price you feel they should be.

Erukk
05-28-2015, 03:42 AM
Primals are a rare bonus to buying packs, but they aren't a given when buying them.

Though, feel free to buy the boosters straight from the store. Cory and the other devs would probably thank you for you investment in Hex.

Xenavire
05-28-2015, 03:44 AM
I've come to the conclusion that AH boosters are overpriced by about 5 to 10%.

I bought 48 boosters earlier this week from the store @ 200 plat each. With those I received 2 primal packs, which I then sold on the AH for around 2000 plat each. So, the 48 boosters I purchased ended up costing me about 117p each. Even if I had just received 1 primal the price would have been 158p.

If the primal drop rate is 1 in 50, then that would work out to 160p, on average. I see no reason to buy boosters on the AH until the price comes down to below 160p.

Are you factoring in the AH cut?

vulture27
05-28-2015, 03:56 AM
I just got a primal after going 208 packs without one. You got lucky. Its a gamble.

katkillad
05-28-2015, 04:11 AM
Too lazy to check the math, but yes a chance at a primal does have value. Last time I did the math I think it was 165p, but prices of primals and packs has changed since then. It is something a lot of people don't take into consideration.

Assassine
05-28-2015, 04:18 AM
If you think theyre overpriced, then dont buy them. Simple as that right?

tyra
05-28-2015, 04:29 AM
we don't know the spawnrate of Primals. I think somebody said it was around 2%, it might be wrong.
If we take the primal price as 2000p and the chance of one at 2%, 160p is the price in the AH.

So yes, AH boosters are overpriced, but only if you really get 2% primal chance and 2000p per primal pack... these are not for sure :)

Salverus
05-28-2015, 04:33 AM
in store:
100 packs @ 200 platinum = 20.000 platinum
2 primals as bonus can be sold for 2000 - 5% tax = 3800 platinum
gained 100 packs at cost of 16.200 platinum.

So to sell the packs on AH you need to get 162 platinum per pack, adding the 5% tax is 170.5 platinum per pack as AH price. Which is exactly what they are now.

Sparrow
05-28-2015, 04:53 AM
Are you factoring in the AH cut?
Yes, that's why I said around 2000. It ended up being 1900 and some change.

Didn't expect all the snarky replies, I have to say, but, hey, if you feel the universe is against you and you're fated to do worse than average on primals, please buy from the AH. Probably though it's sellers afraid it might be harder to gouge the clueless on price. :)

And, yes, it's true 2% hasn't been confirmed as the primal drop rate. If the rate is lower, then AH is the way to go right now.

@Salverus -- I sold my primals for 2049, so the cost came in below the 16.2 figure. Regardless, packs are above 170, so whether it's 5% or 3% or 2% too high, buying from the store is still the better deal, IMO. Even if it turned out to be no savings, I'd rather my money went to CZE anyways.

ossuary
05-28-2015, 05:02 AM
Once again, people, YOUR drop rate does not equal the GLOBAL drop rate. Many many players will buy 48 boosters and not get ANY primals, in which case their price per booster for that transaction would be the full 200p. In fact, there is a 37.92% chance statistically that buying 48 boosters will result in no primals (more than 1 out of 3 players). Additionally, the chance to primal is not the only factor in play moving the price of booster packs. There is also the supply and demand of the boosters themselves, the price primals go for, speculation on the chest contents, and a number of other variables that can move the price around at any given time.

People want these price equations to be simple, but the fact of the matter is they just aren't. It's a bit silly to make a single purchase and then decry the AH prices as out of whack as a result of that one transaction. ;)

Sparrow
05-28-2015, 05:31 AM
People want these price equations to be simple, but the fact of the matter is they just aren't. It's a bit silly to make a single purchase and then decry the AH prices as out of whack as a result of that one transaction. ;)
Oss, I'd like you better if your default wasn't often that the person you're disagreeing with is some kind of idiot. I know my experience is anecdotal. I have a degree in Mathematics. I understand how probability works. And yes, while there is a 38% of getting no primals when buying 48 boosters, there is a 62% chance of getting 1 or more.

If the 2% rate is correct, I see no advantage right now in paying 175p for a booster on the AH, which is what it was when last I checked. If that's an unhappy fact for the people trying to squeeze an extra nickel out of buyers, so be it.

OTOH, if I didn't have a steady source of income, paying a bit more than 170p on the AH would probably be palatable as it could take a long time to buy enough boosters from the store to see a primal.

chromus
05-28-2015, 05:49 AM
Is this an attempt to influence the booster prices on the AH? Nice experiment. :)

The market can and will eventually always adjust/correct itself so I don't see a problem.

Diesbudt
05-28-2015, 05:54 AM
No such thing as overpriced when capitalism of supply and demand exists. If people wouldn't buy the packs at X they would get cheaper.

ossuary
05-28-2015, 05:59 AM
If the 2% rate is correct, I see no advantage right now in paying 175p for a booster on the AH

Yes, I never buy packs off the AH (at least, I haven't since you could get them for 115p :D). But for people with very bad luck or who are only buying a small number, the immediate discount is often worth it. As in most things, the packs will be sold for whatever price the market will bear. If nobody is willing to pay 175, the price will come back down soon enough.

For the record, I think it's a bit harsh to translate me saying something is "a bit silly" into "the person I'm disagreeing with is some kind of idiot." However, if I offended you with my tone, I apologize, it was not my intent. I don't know anything about your degrees, I just know that your OP didn't make any mention of the fact that you knew it was anecdotal or that you didn't have enough evidence to support the claim, so I responded accordingly. :)

IndigoShade
05-28-2015, 06:05 AM
Plus as far as preferring your money go to CZE, where do you think the ah packs came from?

Tazelbain
05-28-2015, 07:16 AM
Plus as far as preferring your money go to CZE, where do you think the ah packs came from?I am sure most of the cards were hand-colored by Latverian war orphans.

dbug
05-28-2015, 07:20 AM
And don't forget, you also get a chest from a booster from store/prices. on ah you don't

edit: nvm you get chest when you open booster

Nero_Jinous
05-28-2015, 07:21 AM
I always buy my packs from the store even when only buying a few. When booster packs were around 154 I thought they were too high. The only reason people are probably buying packs this high is because they are using gold to get plat and have to save plat where they can. Obviously they do not have the luxury of gambling, but I see not reason why f2p players should be punished by greedy AH sellers. AH price should be less than the primal proc chance not equal to it. Putting packs cheaper is not the solution because it is more likely that a greedy person will just buy and resell the pack than someone who actually needs it will buy it.

Warrender
05-28-2015, 07:26 AM
And don't forget, you also get a chest from a booster from store/prices. on ah you don't

You get a chest when you open a pack no matter where you get it from.

RamzaBehoulve
05-28-2015, 07:27 AM
The math was done previously with a fairly sizable amount of data.

If booster price is at or below 160p, it's better to buy from AH. If it's higher than 160, there is a chance you'll get more value from the store due to a supposedly 2% primal proc rate. Just need to necro that thread if needed.

Of course if the devs told us exactly the proc rate, the prices would correct themselves immediatly, but at the same time it would give a hard maximum value to AH boosters and I don't think they want that.

Anyway, the AH itself is by nature unforgiving to players who don't take the time to analyze markets and that will remain true in any AH in any game. Just the same as Wall Street.

That said, I think F2P players really, really need to value their time better. Unless you are an absolute king of AH manipulation, the absolute and most time efficient way to get platinum is having a job that gives you more than 3$ per hour (give or take) after having paid all your bills and entertainment/hobbies of the month.

Even for top arena decks, it still takes about 40-45min for a 15-0 perfect run that yiells around 7000 gold. Hell, even a few websites pay you more per hour than the Arena just for watching some videos or answering polls.

PS : everything I said above is of course null if you actually enjoy the AH minigame or arena.

MatWith1T
05-28-2015, 07:38 AM
Yeah, but that 'good chance' is the kicker... if you aren't willing to purchase 1000+ packs to get a large enough sample size to smooth out the varience, there's no 'guarantee' that you'll actually see any of that value. You can 100 packs and get 6 Primals, or you could get 0 Primals... over the long run, it will balance out if you spend enough money on packs. But when people are just buying a couple packs for a draft, the AH price reflects the fact that most people would rather take a small discount than pay the premium for the unlikely chance they will get a bonus.

It's a given in economics that consumers do not make 100% rational purchase decisions based on expected value, this is no exception. Most players prefer the 10% discount now over a theoretical 20% bonus that might exist in the future.

ossuary
05-28-2015, 07:51 AM
I always buy my packs from the store even when only buying a few. When booster packs were around 154 I thought they were too high. The only reason people are probably buying packs this high is because they are using gold to get plat and have to save plat where they can. Obviously they do not have the luxury of gambling, but I see not reason why f2p players should be punished by greedy AH sellers. AH price should be less than the primal proc chance not equal to it. Putting packs cheaper is not the solution because it is more likely that a greedy person will just buy and resell the pack than someone who actually needs it will buy it.

So you're saying that people (as a whole) are selling for what people (as a whole) are willing to pay. This is a problem how? :)

If the price were legitimately "too high," then we'd see the number of packs sold in the AH data drop off significantly, and people would start listing them for lower again because they wouldn't be able to sell them at the higher price anymore.

plaguedealer
05-28-2015, 07:56 AM
Alot of people only want 3 packs, it is much better to buy off the ah even if the price seems high.

nicosharp
05-28-2015, 08:01 AM
Primal packs was ingenious.
Everyone wins.
Ultimately you are buying merchandise or playing the game to win them directly from HEX.
You win in the value you obtain.
That value passes on to the players trying to acquire cards.

The only loser is a very minor trickle down effect that reduces the overall value of rare and legendary cards. Packs are already subsidized in cost when you buy them second-hand.

rjselzler
05-28-2015, 08:11 AM
So you're saying that people (as a whole) are selling for what people (as a whole) are willing to pay. This is a problem how? :)


Because we "greedy" sellers are taking advantage of the poor f2p buyers. ...I guess? That's the narrative, anyway.

The cost trends of regular packs on the AH are always* going to have an inverse relation to the cost of primals on the AH. Right now, because packs are relatively high, primal packs are relatively low (~170p for the former and 2000p for the latter). In a world of stable ~150p packs, we'd see primal packs at a cost of around 2700p. I would wager that we'd then see "primal packs are too expensive" threads crop up.

We'll probably also see pack prices trend down with the introduction of mass listing. Again, I predict that primals for the set of the time (set 3 when it launches, IIRC) will trend up as a result.

*I think that Set 1 breaks this rule, by sheer volume of product; that is, people aren't buying set 1 to proc primals in the way that they are with set 2 and beyond.

TL;DR: Just my two cents that the market is self-correcting. Nothing to see here.

Sparrow
05-28-2015, 09:23 AM
Just to be clear, I never said there was a problem with the AH or that the market was broken. Just making the point that if you're intending to play this long term and will be continuously buying new packs, it's best to buy from the store until the AH price drops a bit, even if you only need one, or two, or three packs at the current time.

@ossuary -- yeah, I over-reacted. Maybe I don't include enough rationale behind my points, but it's hard to judge the line between enough detail and condescension. I could have said in my OP: this is anecdotal, I don't think anything is broken, I realize other's experience may vary, there are a multitude of reasons one might prefer to buy from the AH, that I'm aware the projected drop rate is 2%, etc. I've found it's just easier to assume my audience knows those things and that my audience knows I know them, but maybe I'm being lazy in that regard. My profs always told me my proofs were a bit fast, so I should probably keep that in mind.

Mokog
05-28-2015, 09:48 AM
Just wait till we stop using Set 1 and 2 for draft. I am curious to observe the effect on prices and see if they fit my expectations.

desk
05-28-2015, 09:51 AM
Just wait till we stop using Set 1 and 2 for draft. I am curious to observe the effect on prices and see if they fit my expectations.

what are your expectations?

nicosharp
05-28-2015, 09:53 AM
Just wait till we stop using Set 1 and 2 for draft. I am curious to observe the effect on prices and see if they fit my expectations.
That is my long term interest as well. Set 3 tournaments will drive their prices up slightly. Set 2 more so than set 1, due to those still sitting on KS reward packs. The long term value of set 2 and set 1 packs will not really be appreciated until 2 years from now when they actually go out of rotation, and are not purchasable in the store... however, who knows if those cards will ever be playable in Legacy formats :(.

Sparrow
05-28-2015, 10:05 AM
I thought set 3 drafts were going to be 333, since it's a new block? My thinking is that set 1 and 2 prices will really tank after set 3 release.

poizonous
05-28-2015, 10:12 AM
I thought set 3 drafts were going to be 333, since it's a new block? My thinking is that set 1 and 2 prices will really tank after set 3 release.

quite the opposite, because they wont be given out as rewards, so their value will rise

Mokog
05-28-2015, 10:13 AM
Mycurrent expectation is a dip for prices while AoM first releases with a rebound as the 100,000 tournament prelim begins. Demand should drop off initially and only the community events and the 100k tournament would induce mass purchases. Currently commons and uncommons can be purchased for gold to clear that glut of supply and the rares should bottom out till the 100k tournament as well (with notable bumps for the 5 shards events).

One caveat is that the 5 shards events might start a blaze for Hex E-Sports before Hex HQ is ready, driving an unexpected surge into the game that would counter balance the systemic effects of a new set's effect on the market. Slim but possible chance of that. Would I say it has better chances than getting a primal? Only Kismet knows.

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 10:13 AM
If you think theyre overpriced, then dont buy them. Simple as that right?

This. I always buy my packs off the official store. Maybe if people were selling them 125p or lower I'd buy on the AH. But that's just me.

nicosharp
05-28-2015, 10:14 AM
I thought set 3 drafts were going to be 333, since it's a new block? My thinking is that set 1 and 2 prices will really tank after set 3 release.
It's hard for me to see the above happening. Maybe in the first month, but after that:
#1 - A lot of new players will come to the game
#2 - There will still be a playable 2-2-1 format (as far as we know, they may change it to 1-1-2 - but it will be playable)
#3 - The majority of the playerbase will be playing the new format, so from a collection standpoint, set 3 cards and packs will be the ones with reducing prices over-time and the less likely to acquire set 1 and set 2 packs should see a price increase. This will mainly be due to players offsetting their limited play expenses by selling off their winnings, and all their winnings mostly being set3 packs.

Mokog
05-28-2015, 10:17 AM
quite the opposite, because they wont be given out as rewards, so their value will rise

I expect this when the packs come off the store. Demand for draft material seems larger than the desire to crack packs for rares.

Sparrow
05-28-2015, 10:20 AM
Hmm. Well, we'll see what happens. I think #1 will be the biggest factor in keeping set 1 and 2 prices up (or bringing them back up).

It's been a number of years since I played MTGO seriously (probably 4 or 5), but previous block secondary market prices were always significantly lower than current block, due to a decrease in demand.

As far as sets 1 and 2 not being given out as prizes causing the price to rise, I'm not seeing the logic there. I'm expecting a huge drop in demand as many people are bored of playing with sets 1 and 2.

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 10:20 AM
It's hard for me to see the above happening. Maybe in the first month, but after that:
#1 - A lot of new players will come to the game
#2 - There will still be a playable 2-2-1 format (as far as we know, they may change it to 1-1-2 - but it will be playable)
#3 - The majority of the playerbase will be playing the new format, so from a collection standpoint, set 3 cards and packs will be the ones with reducing prices over-time and the less likely to acquire set 1 and set 2 packs should see a price increase. This will mainly be due to players offsetting their limited play expenses by selling off their winnings, and all their winnings mostly being set3 packs.

Did they confirm #2? The last official thing I heard on it was Cory mention (from twoturnsahead podcast) they would "try" to have a 2-2-1. But we all know how that goes, it was certainly not written in stone. Was it ever mentioned again from an official source?

stiii
05-28-2015, 10:21 AM
I'd guess that the 2-5% extra is from the effort of selling stuff. Putting packs pu one at a time take a while to do.

nicosharp
05-28-2015, 10:29 AM
Did they confirm #2? The last official thing I heard on it was Cory mention (from twoturnsahead podcast) they would "try" to have a 2-2-1. But we all know how that goes, it was certainly not written in stone. Was it ever mentioned again from an official source?
I'm not sure tbh. Maybe you are right. If that is the case, it just adds to the idea that set 2 and set 1 packs would be more valuable to the new playerbase. The only ways to acquire it then would be the auction house or store. They could plan to bring back old formats for limited times, like weekend events/etc. I like the idea of less queue saturation.

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 10:34 AM
I'm not sure tbh. Maybe you are right. If that is the case, it just adds to the idea that set 2 and set 1 packs would be more valuable to the new playerbase. The only ways to acquire it then would be the auction house or store. They could plan to bring back old formats for limited times, like weekend events/etc. I like the idea of less queue saturation.

Lol how could I be right, I was asking a question? Maybe I need more sleep.

Elwinz
05-28-2015, 10:37 AM
i still look forward for primal from store ... bught far more than 48 . ..

nicosharp
05-28-2015, 10:46 AM
Lol how could I be right, I was asking a question? Maybe I need more sleep.
I know. I was just saying, I am not the one with the answer, just going off super old info, so they either do or don't have the old format? We should find out soon.

RamzaBehoulve
05-28-2015, 10:50 AM
Once set 1 is removed from draft, the price will stabilize according to demand/offer. Which one will be highest and drive the price remains to be seen.

I don't think the price will change that much until set 1 is removed from store.

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 10:59 AM
I know. I was just saying, I am not the one with the answer, just going off super old info, so they either do or don't have the old format? We should find out soon.

Yeah, soon we will find out. had an idea I posted here a while back that I still think is a good solution. A custom draft queue where players could bring any in print set they wanted to the draft. A couple of different ways to go with it. One would be players could set it so everyone brings 2-2-1, or 3-2-1, or whatever they set it to.

The second and more interesting option could be to let any player bring any 3 packs from any currently in print set. One guy could bring 1-1-1, another guy brings 3-2-1, other guy brings 2-2-1, etc. Could make for some crazy drafts, not sure if it would work tho.

Koz
05-28-2015, 11:05 AM
It's hard for me to see the above happening. Maybe in the first month, but after that:
#1 - A lot of new players will come to the game
#2 - There will still be a playable 2-2-1 format (as far as we know, they may change it to 1-1-2 - but it will be playable)
#3 - The majority of the playerbase will be playing the new format, so from a collection standpoint, set 3 cards and packs will be the ones with reducing prices over-time and the less likely to acquire set 1 and set 2 packs should see a price increase. This will mainly be due to players offsetting their limited play expenses by selling off their winnings, and all their winnings mostly being set3 packs.

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the conversation going on, forgive my newness. What is all of this talk about 2-2-1 formats and such? I don't know what that means

hex_colin
05-28-2015, 11:08 AM
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the conversation going on, forgive my newness. What is all of this talk about 2-2-1 formats and such? I don't know what that means

Set numbers. So, 2-2-1 is a Limited Draft with 2 packs of Set 2, and one pack of Set 1, drafted in the order 2-2-1.

Warrender
05-28-2015, 11:08 AM
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the conversation going on, forgive my newness. What is all of this talk about 2-2-1 formats and such? I don't know what that means

The numbers refer to the set. So 2-2-1 means two set 2 boosters followed by a set 1 booster draft.

ossuary
05-28-2015, 11:08 AM
The last official thing we heard is that they were going to offer 2-2-1 (or some variant thereof) in addition to 3-3-3... however, they never said it would be available immediately. I think it's going to depend on player volume; it would probably be smart to expect at least a short period of time in which 2-2-1 draft is either not available at all, or just never fires because everyone wants 3-3-3.

As far as the older set pack prices go, there will probably be a certain amount of time early on where the prices tank (remember buying AoDs on the AH for 750p just after set 2 came out? :D) across the board, but over time that price will climb back up. As long as there are still strong cards in sets 1 and 2 for constructed play (and there absolutely are), the packs will enjoy a healthy resale value. Since tournaments either won't proc those packs any more, or will proc far fewer of them than set 3 packs, the overall supply of both packs and cards from those packs will steadily decrease in comparison to new players looking for those items.

If the best cards (Angel, Vamp, Reese, etc.) push up high enough in value with the lack of new packs on the AH to produce them, people will buy more packs from the store to cash in on the value of primal procs and cracking money cards. For at least the first couple of months, I expect the price of set 1 and set 2 packs to float in between 125 and 175... I doubt very much they'll go past either end of that range for anything other than extremely brief blips.

Koz
05-28-2015, 11:20 AM
The numbers refer to the set. So 2-2-1 means two set 2 boosters followed by a set 1 booster draft.

Thank you and the other poster for responding. Are they switching to the new format upon release of set 3?

Also, as a side question (but related), when will sets 1 & 2 rotate out? From my understanding it won't be until two sets after Armies of Myth correct? So there would be four full sets out, and then when the 5th releases the first two would rotate out. Is that right?

hex_colin
05-28-2015, 11:23 AM
Thank you and the other poster for responding. Are they switching to the new format upon release of set 3?

Also, as a side question (but related), when will sets 1 & 2 rotate out? From my understanding it won't be until two sets after Armies of Myth correct? So there would be four full sets out, and then when the 5th releases the first two would rotate out. Is that right?

Yes, 3-3-3.

I'd guess Set 7... ;)

poizonous
05-28-2015, 11:27 AM
Yes, 3-3-3.

I'd guess Set 7... ;)

Set 7? 3 Block rotation? Please tell me this is the first time you are wrong lol

RanaDunes
05-28-2015, 11:47 AM
OP's Primal Pack is overpriced. :p

RanaDunes
05-28-2015, 11:50 AM
Yes, 3-3-3.

I'd guess Set 7... ;)

Didn't they say Blocks will include three sets? That makes Set 6 is the release when Set 1 and 2 rotate out.
Because Set 3, 4 and 5 (that's block 2) then Set 6 (that's Block 3 starting, so block 1 is out).

I think 4 sets per block is too much?
Unless Set 3 belongs to the first block.

ossuary
05-28-2015, 11:56 AM
Block 2 will also be only 2 sets, so sets 3 and 4 will be the second block. It's not until set 5 that we'll begin the 3rd block, which should in theory be 3 sets at that point. Assuming nothing has changed or will change before then. :)

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 12:03 PM
I didn't think they ever really told us what a "block" is did they? Maybe I missed it.

poizonous
05-28-2015, 12:06 PM
I didn't think they ever really told us what a "block" is did they? Maybe I missed it.

Yeah Originally they specified the first few sets were really big so they would consist of 2 sets per block Set 1/2 + 3/4... Then we were supposed to go to 3 set blocks, last we heard

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 12:19 PM
Yeah Originally they specified the first few sets were really big so they would consist of 2 sets per block Set 1/2 + 3/4... Then we were supposed to go to 3 set blocks, last we heard

I see that it seems that way in regards to draft, but blocks will surely effect constructed formats as well. Will they also be blocked off in this manner in regards to constructed? Or possibly they could rotate sets in constructed and not even use a block system?

poizonous
05-28-2015, 12:22 PM
I see that it seems that way in regards to draft, but blocks will surely effect constructed formats as well. Will they also be blocked off in this manner in regards to constructed? Or possibly they could rotate sets in constructed and not even use a block system?

Constructed in the other game uses a 2 block cycle for constructed, which is what we originally were planning with this game as well, but there might be a hint at 3 block constructed (I personally hate this idea... the idea of a 1500 card meta sounds disastrous)

Ariathor
05-28-2015, 12:30 PM
Constructed in the other game uses a 2 block cycle for constructed, which is what we originally were planning with this game as well, but there might be a hint at 3 block constructed (I personally hate this idea... the idea of a 1500 card meta sounds disastrous)

In mtg there are 1472 cards (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?format=[%22Standard%22])that are standard legal. I don't think a 1500 card meta is that terrible. I would actually like it, right now it feels kind of stale and the deckbuilding options are quite limited imo.

EDIT: More on-topic, I agree with the OP and I actually hope the community becomes aware of that. Even if you buy only one pack it's theoretically better to buy from the store as long as pack prices are above 165plat. If more people are aware of that, it should drive AH booster prices down, to the point where it is worthwhile to buy from it.

poizonous
05-28-2015, 12:33 PM
In mtg there are 1472 cards (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?format=[%22Standard%22])that are standard legal. I don't think a 1500 card meta is that terrible. I would actually like it, right now it feels kind of stale and the deckbuilding options are quite limited imo.

Well MtG has changed its pattern starting now, Standard Constructed will only consist of roughly 1000 cards once the sets cycle out to their new format. And I used 1500 as an estimate, im sure it will be closer to 1700

wolzarg
05-28-2015, 12:48 PM
That still seems like a weird reaction if they have been doing 14xx cards for the longest time and are just now going down and you make it sound like a similar pool size would be horrible?

poizonous
05-28-2015, 12:55 PM
sets in MtG have grown bigger over time, when i was on Pro Tour, sets were smaller and "Core" sets consisted of a huge chunk of the block with many of those cards having 0 impact on the meta, so realistically 6 sets had about 900 cards in the meta, but anyway, my problem with a 3 block meta is that each block will have little to no interaction with the next meaning that there will be little use in block 3 interjoining with sets 1/2, outside of an expanded format. I like to keep constructed tight and compact with tons of interactions.

A prime example of this is Yugioh... When EVERY set that is out is in the primary constructed scene, you eventually end up with "Cookie cutter" meta decks, the best cards in every set crunched together. By rotating sets out faster, you lose the chance of a cookie cutter deck forming.

And honestly who wants to deal with CMK for another 2 years??? lol

magic_gazz
05-28-2015, 01:08 PM
Yeah, soon we will find out. had an idea I posted here a while back that I still think is a good solution. A custom draft queue where players could bring any in print set they wanted to the draft. A couple of different ways to go with it. One would be players could set it so everyone brings 2-2-1, or 3-2-1, or whatever they set it to.

The second and more interesting option could be to let any player bring any 3 packs from any currently in print set. One guy could bring 1-1-1, another guy brings 3-2-1, other guy brings 2-2-1, etc. Could make for some crazy drafts, not sure if it would work tho.

I want this. Chaos draft is fun.

wolzarg
05-28-2015, 01:18 PM
sets in MtG have grown bigger over time, when i was on Pro Tour, sets were smaller and "Core" sets consisted of a huge chunk of the block with many of those cards having 0 impact on the meta, so realistically 6 sets had about 900 cards in the meta, but anyway, my problem with a 3 block meta is that each block will have little to no interaction with the next meaning that there will be little use in block 3 interjoining with sets 1/2, outside of an expanded format. I like to keep constructed tight and compact with tons of interactions.

A prime example of this is Yugioh... When EVERY set that is out is in the primary constructed scene, you eventually end up with "Cookie cutter" meta decks, the best cards in every set crunched together. By rotating sets out faster, you lose the chance of a cookie cutter deck forming.

And honestly who wants to deal with CMK for another 2 years??? lol
Fair enough with that very well formulated point in mind i fully agree.

magic_gazz
05-28-2015, 01:21 PM
sets in MtG have grown bigger over time, when i was on Pro Tour, sets were smaller and "Core" sets consisted of a huge chunk of the block with many of those cards having 0 impact on the meta, so realistically 6 sets had about 900 cards in the meta, but anyway, my problem with a 3 block meta is that each block will have little to no interaction with the next meaning that there will be little use in block 3 interjoining with sets 1/2, outside of an expanded format. I like to keep constructed tight and compact with tons of interactions.

A prime example of this is Yugioh... When EVERY set that is out is in the primary constructed scene, you eventually end up with "Cookie cutter" meta decks, the best cards in every set crunched together. By rotating sets out faster, you lose the chance of a cookie cutter deck forming.

And honestly who wants to deal with CMK for another 2 years??? lol

The problem with smaller formats though is that you are almost forced into certain decks.

Blocks are designed around certain mechanics and that often leads the some decks being "obvious". In small formats you don't have much choice but to play what are almost pre made decks (see current mtg and the megamorph and dragon decks).

This is why (almost) no one likes block constructed.

israel.kendall
05-28-2015, 01:21 PM
I want this. Chaos draft is fun.

Now that I think of it, why limit it to packs in print, why not any pack ever? Could be even more awesome and unpredictable while making a use for those old packs.

Tazelbain
05-28-2015, 01:30 PM
Hmm, a competitive draft queue that plays with packs from any set? Yes, please.

poizonous
05-28-2015, 01:31 PM
Gazz. I personally Enjoy block constructed, but I am a huge deck building fanatic, and can always find a way to break a meta :P