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IzHaN80
06-01-2015, 07:06 AM
I bet this has been talked about before, but, there has been any evidence/proof of Bots sniping in the AH┐? Ok, i bring this out to the table, because, im just tired, of being outbid JUST in the last second, like exactly the second they outbid me, the item is gone, today it happened me like 15 times if not more. And don't tell me there is people out hitting the refresh button and counting the minutes, because that's what i do (except counting the seconds a item will last), because thats humanly impossible, to outbid you just 2-3 seconds before the item is gone. I mean, sure i have done it, perhaps 1 out of 50 times┐? But outbidding you over and over, 15+ items in a row┐? Just suspicious, because one thing is that someone is spamming the bid button, and other thing is you being the winner of the auction, and all of sudden in the last second, they outbid you.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 07:12 AM
Those are normal people who have had a lot of practice. The bot theory has been debunked several times.

Gwaer
06-01-2015, 07:13 AM
A few people spend a lot of time determining exactly when auctions will expire and bidding on them. I don't think there are any bots. Just some very dedicated people. The biggest problem in my opinion is that you can determine when an auction will expire exactly. That info isn't freely available, so the people who exploit the vulnerability of the time masking have an advantage over others. They will hopefully fix this sometime.

IzHaN80
06-01-2015, 07:18 AM
Well, as we speak, happened in my face with 4 items more... Seriously, patience┐? You can't tell when an item is going to end, i mean, how can you tell the exact second you need to bid on an item? There must be a script or something...

UPDATE: Counting and 8 items more... Sorry, it's hard to believe this is humanly possible.

IzHaN80
06-01-2015, 07:19 AM
A few people spend a lot of time determining exactly when auctions will expire and bidding on them. I don't think there are any bots. Just some very dedicated people. The biggest problem in my opinion is that you can determine when an auction will expire exactly. That info isn't freely available, so the people who exploit the vulnerability of the time masking have an advantage over others. They will hopefully fix this sometime.This is what i am talking about. There must be some kind of script or vulnerability. I been outbid on very interesting auctions and cards, of course, ONLY the very interesting cards, the crappy cards, no problem at all. Casuality? I don't think it is.

Gwaer
06-01-2015, 07:19 AM
You can tell exactly when they will end. That's what I just said. No script. The vulnerability is the implementation. You as a person can figure out the exact end time then come back to bid on it then. It's pretty trivial honestly. Just takes time.

alcide
06-01-2015, 07:20 AM
You seem to imply that there is a way to know when the auction will be over.Don't you?

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 07:22 AM
There is a very simple way to know when an auction is about to end, and sniping is ridiculously easy because of that. I do not condone sniping as the standard practice on the AH, so I won't spread it around (because sniping wars are not healthy in my eyes.)

I have attempted this once or twice out of curiosity and it does work. I also refuse to use anything other than buyouts these days.

IzHaN80
06-01-2015, 07:23 AM
You can tell exactly when they will end. That's what I just said. No script. The vulnerability is the implementation. You as a person can figure out the exact end time then come back to bid on it then. It's pretty trivial honestly. Just takes time.Ok, Gwaer, what you're implying is someone got powers, and knows EXACTLY when an auction did start and so they note up the moment the auction has been created (INFO that no one can know) and they come back and bid EXACTLY in the last few seconds before it ends. So tell me how this is not some sort of scripting or vulnerability because to know when an auction ends, you need to know when it begins, and the way the system is, if i put an auction that lasts 12 hours, it will show as <12 hours on the list, if it lasts 24 hours it will say 12-24 hours, etc...

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 07:25 AM
Ok, Gwaer, what you're implying is someone got powers, and knows EXACTLY when an auction did start and so they note up the moment the auction has been created (INFO that no one can know) and they come back and bid EXACTLY in the last few seconds before it ends. So tell me how this is not some sort of scripting or vulnerability because to know when an auction ends, you need to know when it begins, and the way the system is, if i put an auction that lasts 12 hours, it will show as <12 hours on the list, if it lasts 24 hours it will say 12-24 hours, etc...

You do not have to know when a auction started. Your assumptions are completely wrong.

Gwaer
06-01-2015, 07:25 AM
No, you don't need to know when it began, and no I'm not going to publicly state how to do it. It's bad enough that its being done at all. Hopefully HXE will get around to fixing it. Because until they do setting a low bid is a huge risk. As far as I'm concerned it's an exploit.

IzHaN80
06-01-2015, 07:28 AM
Well, then i hope you have reported this to the proper people, because you have me wondering HOW they do it without knowing when it began, because its just logic. I know when you press Time Left on your bids there is a queue showing you the priority of the items that are about to end their auction time, but still, you could have an item sitting on the 1st spot for hours, until the auction is over, so still you leave me wondering HOW without knowing when the auction began.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 07:29 AM
No, you don't need to know when it began, and no I'm not going to publicly state how to do it. It's bad enough that its being done at all. Hopefully HXE will get around to fixing it. Because until they do setting a low bid is a huge risk. As far as I'm concerned it's an exploit.

Something we think very similarly about. :)

IzHaN80
06-01-2015, 07:32 AM
Well i guess i will stop trying to snipe for auctions, i quit after this being my 25th item in a row, that was worth to get, and being outbid in the last second because some moron uses exploits sucks.

Gwaer
06-01-2015, 07:34 AM
Indeed. I also feel bad for the people who lose great items for 1plat because some people can essentially get them with no competition. Seems bad to me all around.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 07:35 AM
Well i guess i will stop trying to snipe for auctions, i quit after this being my 25th item in a row, that was worth to get, and being outbid in the last second because some moron uses exploits sucks.

It isn't an actual exploit, but it feels like one (it feels scummy even if there is no rule against it.) Anyone at all could do it, and it is ridiculously easy to do, although you may not always win the item. We just don't want to spread the method even further since it isn't a healthy behaviour.

I'd suggest dropping it for now, as the discussion isn't very helpful.

Gwaer
06-01-2015, 07:38 AM
simply adding a random amount of time after someone bids on an item would resolve the issue I think. It's a common way to combat bid sniping anyway.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 07:43 AM
simply adding a random amount of time after someone bids on an item would resolve the issue I think. It's a common way to combat bid sniping anyway.

I dunno, I think that wouldn't be a 100% flawless solution considering the common way to snipe... I feel there needs to be some kind of UX revision to make that a possibility (maybe any bid in the last 1m of the auction adds 5m and alerts all the other bidders? Can't snipe in a genuine bidding war. Could potentially unlist it from the normal AH and only allow bids from the 'my bids' tab.)

Still doesn't feel good though, but there must be a good method. Maybe just removing the source would do it, but that would make the AH less feature complete.

ossuary
06-01-2015, 07:50 AM
I'm frankly amazed that anyone is still responding to these threads.

stiii
06-01-2015, 08:05 AM
I'm frankly amazed that anyone is still responding to these threads.

Not sure if you mean the topic or OP, would agree in both cases.

MatWith1T
06-01-2015, 08:52 AM
We have to respond to these threads, or else the unsubstantiated consensus that the AH is being gamed by bots grows. Same with the 'the RNG is broken' style threads. You want to just throw your hands up and say you're done with this nonsense, but then the only voice being heard is the one spreading disinformation.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 08:53 AM
I want to add, this one is a lot less likely to be common knowledge, so a little bit of informing doesn't hurt.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 09:13 AM
I just have to say, if a card is ridiculously underpriced on a bid, and you bid +1p so you can try to get it dirt cheap, then you are leaving yourself open to getting sniped. Bid a card up to decent amount if you really want it and the odds of getting sniped are much less.

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 09:16 AM
I think the issue being addressed here is that to avoid sniping, it would be more wise to not have timers on auctions. The only individual that knows the timer would be the owner of the auction...

I honestly do not see the point of sorting by or sharing a timer with the bidders, but see the point of it being a time-based auction.

For many people, Ebay was the first to introduce the loathing of Auctions by time to a mass audience, and I'd love to see that done away with in HEX.

This would also not incentivize people posting items to take a I'll take "whatever" approach, and let the sharks fight in the water, but instead post auctions at more reasonably acceptable averages.

Tazelbain
06-01-2015, 09:21 AM
I like the adding of small, random amount of time to the auction for each bid.

Fyren
06-01-2015, 09:27 AM
It isn't an actual exploit, but it feels like one (it feels scummy even if there is no rule against it.) Anyone at all could do it, and it is ridiculously easy to do, although you may not always win the item. We just don't want to spread the method even further since it isn't a healthy behaviour.

I'll take a stab at what I think you're referring to, especially since it's elsewhere on the boards (And not, in your estimation, an exploit):

It doesn't display Time Left, but it sorts by actual Time Left if you click on it on the AH board. You will be able to see the next auction to expire, even if you cannot see exactly when it expires. By that method you can just keep looking at that for things to snipe.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 09:29 AM
I'll take a stab at what I think you're referring to, especially since it's elsewhere on the boards (And not, in your estimation, an exploit):

It doesn't display Time Left, but it sorts by actual Time Left if you click on it on the AH board. You will be able to see the next auction to expire, even if you cannot see exactly when it expires. By that method you can just keep looking at that for things to snipe.

Wow, thanks for sharing exactly what I was intentionally not sharing. *slowclap*

dogmod
06-01-2015, 09:35 AM
Wow, thanks for sharing exactly what I was intentionally not sharing. *slowclap*

The best way to get something like this changed is to make it so that everyone does it honestly. We should publish this information everywhere for everyone

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 09:43 AM
The best way to get something like this changed is to make it so that everyone does it honestly. We should publish this information everywhere for everyone

The problem is that people won't do it honestly, they will just do whatever is easiest. All it will do is promote the use of this sketchy practice.

Maybe that would be incentive enough for it to be dealt with officially, but I'd rather we didn't need to force their hands by being a less than great community.

dogmod
06-01-2015, 09:52 AM
The problem is that people won't do it honestly, they will just do whatever is easiest. All it will do is promote the use of this sketchy practice.

Maybe that would be incentive enough for it to be dealt with officially, but I'd rather we didn't need to force their hands by being a less than great community.

I would rather we didn't need to force their hands as well.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 09:55 AM
The problem is that people won't do it honestly, they will just do whatever is easiest. All it will do is promote the use of this sketchy practice.

Maybe that would be incentive enough for it to be dealt with officially, but I'd rather we didn't need to force their hands by being a less than great community.

Being a less than great community by pointing out the blatantly obvious "Time Left" sort in the AH? And calling it an exploit? This isn't super secret tech here, thread is pretty funny actually.

Superjuice
06-01-2015, 09:56 AM
I don't see how anyone could consider this an exploit, I always assumed it was common sense...

And fwiw there is no reason why people shouldn't be on a level playing field as far as bidding goes, this ultimately falls on cze to remove the timer option or add standard increments after a bid is received.

Yoss
06-01-2015, 09:59 AM
Those who want to snipe need only go to the AH subforum and look up the tutorial.

And I hope some day we no longer have auctions and instead have bid/ask.

Thrawn
06-01-2015, 10:02 AM
I've never been convinced that sniping is even a problem. Someone was willing to pay more than you, it's how auctions work.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 10:05 AM
I've never been convinced that sniping is even a problem. Someone was willing to pay more than you, it's how auctions work.

I think the problem is, that instead of bidding what they are willing to pay for a card, they are bidding +1p to get it as cheap as possible. If one were to bid a card to a reasonable price it would run off 99% of the "snipers" because the snipers are just surfing the AH for steals. The cheaper you try to get a card, the higher the odds of getting sniped.

poizonous
06-01-2015, 10:06 AM
I've never been convinced that sniping is even a problem. Someone was willing to pay more than you, it's how auctions work.

The problem is that they wait for the very end of the auction to do it and give you literally no time to outbid them.

I personally want a more common time increment with minutes and seconds remaining... that way everyone can literally know exactly when a certain auction will end

Showsni
06-01-2015, 10:14 AM
We just need commission bids to be implemented. Simply bid the maximum amount you'd be willing to pay, and then the auctioneer (or the game in this case) bids on your behalf just enough to win the lot, up to your maximum.

Cephied
06-01-2015, 10:25 AM
I think the problem is, that instead of bidding what they are willing to pay for a card, they are bidding +1p to get it as cheap as possible. If one were to bid a card to a reasonable price it would run off 99% of the "snipers" because the snipers are just surfing the AH for steals. The cheaper you try to get a card, the higher the odds of getting sniped.

Auction sniping complaints always come down to this.

TOOT
06-01-2015, 10:29 AM
If you want to spend time trying to snipe auctions, getting sniped yourself is the cost of doing business.

People that get frustrated that they get outbid, use the BIN. The very reason they are bidding in the first place is cause they are trying to get a good deal themselves. How is there any reason to be angry? Just ignore bidding entirely, and go off the BIN.

I don't really understand the problem.

All that being said, a bid/ask market like yoss has been pushing a year+ now for, would be a welcome addition.

Sparrow
06-01-2015, 10:51 AM
I think the only way to get CZE to fix it is if everyone knows how to exploit it. By the same token, if everyone knows how to do it, the advantage going to the currently unscrupulous minority goes away.

Fyren
06-01-2015, 10:52 AM
Maybe that would be incentive enough for it to be dealt with officially, but I'd rather we didn't need to force their hands by being a less than great community.

Withholding information from people who ask sounds like a less great community than one that answers honestly.

ossuary
06-01-2015, 10:54 AM
All it will do is promote the use of this sketchy practice.

Why do you assume it's sketchy? That's disingenuous. You're attaching your personal feelings to this and labeling something as underhanded that isn't.

The Auction House intentionally orders the remaining auctions in exact time order if you sort by time. If the devs didn't intend for you to be able to see what was expiring next in the list, then the sort order beyond the time range would be random, instead of accurately arranged. It's not magic, it's not a trick, and it's not a cheat - it's by design.

On the subject of people sniping each other, well, that's just how the system we have works. If you want to try to pay far lower than the market value of something, you run the risk of losing the auction instead. If you don't like that idea, just buy one with a fair buyout price or bid higher instead of upping by 1p. And for players who don't like the idea of their goods going for "too low" a price, don't post auctions without buyouts, and don't post a low starting bid.

All of the problems that are being complained about here are either explainable or fixable with what we already have. Except for the nonsense about there being bots, that's clearly just lunacy brought on by lack of understanding or effort. :)

plaguedealer
06-01-2015, 11:00 AM
I am an idiot when it comes to computer things. But how would one even run a bot for the ah. Wouldnt someone have to be actively taking data from the ah that is not public information?

ossuary
06-01-2015, 11:04 AM
how would one even run a bot for the ah. Wouldnt someone have to be actively taking data from the ah that is not public information?

Yes. That's why it's laughable when people claim there "have to" be bots already. We don't have datastream access, or full realtime downloads, and any kind of rigged-up OCR solution would be laughably slow (7 entries at a time!). The very idea is ludicrous.

Thrawn
06-01-2015, 11:10 AM
The problem is that they wait for the very end of the auction to do it and give you literally no time to outbid them.

I personally want a more common time increment with minutes and seconds remaining... that way everyone can literally know exactly when a certain auction will end

Sure, but that's a problem with the AH interface and the way it works, not with the players using the system. None of the hate for "snipers" seems to have any solid basis other than people being upset they aren't the ones who got it.


All it will do is promote the use of this sketchy practice.

I don't see how bidding is a sketchy practice.

fido_one
06-01-2015, 11:15 AM
I'll take a stab at what I think you're referring to, especially since it's elsewhere on the boards (And not, in your estimation, an exploit):

It doesn't display Time Left, but it sorts by actual Time Left if you click on it on the AH board. You will be able to see the next auction to expire, even if you cannot see exactly when it expires. By that method you can just keep looking at that for things to snipe.

Just to back up the poster here as he took some fyre [ha!] on saying how to do AH sniping. What 'sniping' at the moment is (exploit/opportunity/poor-design/a-pony!) aside, hiding how to do it just makes anyone's grievances with its existence more pronounced. I do only buyouts but I'd absolutely want to know that A) this is being done and B) it is commonplace; because it directly influences, rather heavily, the cards that I sell and/or buy. The more people that know this, the better the market will adjust to become a fairer system.

Not to be critical of CZE, but to totally be critical of CZE - since this does ultimately effect card values, what is their official weigh in on this? I feel we need it at this point, as my AH sales have been crazy as I prep for set 3 and I want to know if they see this as part of the AH experience or something they need to fix for that set's release.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 12:01 PM
I'd say it has a very negligible impact on overall card values.

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 12:07 PM
After heavily weighing the pros/cons over-time of using the AH, and doing a bit of experimentation on min bids this weekend (with almost 0% success), I find that bid/ask is a better solution, but still have the included limitation of a 48hour timer, and do not make that timer known in the slightest to those bidding.

poizonous
06-01-2015, 12:11 PM
After heavily weighing the pros/cons over-time of using the AH, and doing a bit of experimentation on min bids this weekend (with almost 0% success), I find that bid/ask is a better solution, but still have the included limitation of a 48hour timer, and do not make that timer known in the slightest to those bidding.

I agree with most but I would just say give EVERYONE a more definitive time left, that way everyone can know exactly when an auction is ending

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 12:13 PM
I agree with most but I would just say give EVERYONE a more definitive time left, that way everyone can know exactly when an auction is ending

My suggestion is really to eliminate all possibility of "Sniping". I feel that people should pay what they are willing to, regardless of auction time left.

Also, players should be more inclined to only post auctions for what they are willing to accept as a minimum. Hopefully this helps both with pricing staying consistent, and players bidding more efficiently.

The inclusion of a timer in my opinion is more so for limiting the glut of cards on the market at any given time.

Salverus
06-01-2015, 12:16 PM
i think if the community grows, the problems with the AH will resolve itself.
Now you can relatively easily get a cheap card from the AH because no one else noticed it or didnt bother to bid on it. If the playerbase grows, more players will browse on the AH and bid, making it much more difficult for a card to sit unnoticed on AH for 48h


(Also with the current system i can earn tons of platinum, so i dont want it to change :p)

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 12:22 PM
Why do you assume it's sketchy? That's disingenuous. You're attaching your personal feelings to this and labeling something as underhanded that isn't.


Personal feelings aside, the devs specifically mentioned that they weren't going to make it easy for bid snipers because it wasn't something they agreed with. Therefore it isn't disingenuous, it is repeating something stated by the devs.

Tazelbain
06-01-2015, 12:24 PM
i think if the community grows, the problems with the AH will resolve itself.
Now you can relatively easily get a cheap card from the AH because no one else noticed it or didnt bother to bid on it. If the playerbase grows, more players will browse on the AH and bid, making it much more difficult for a card to sit unnoticed on AH for 48h


(Also with the current system i can earn tons of platinum, so i dont want it to change :p)
The reason people ignore it is there is no use to bidding without buying out because snipers with get it anyway so why bother.

Salverus
06-01-2015, 12:28 PM
if there are uncommon cards approaching the end of the auction with a price below 100 gold, ofcourse they are going to snipe.
Just bid 500 gold or so and they ll leave you alone, while the lowest buyout for those uncommons is usually around 900-1000

If no one bids on the auctions at all, until there is less than a minute left, it is only encouraging the snipers to continue what they are doing. If you think the card is worth 500 gold, why not bid it? Worst case scenario you are outbid and you lose nothing, but then the sniper has to pay 10 times (literally 10 times) more for his card. Best case scenario, you get the card for the price you want.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 12:29 PM
The reason people ignore it is there is no use to bidding without buying out because snipers with get it anyway so why bother.

This is the real issue - bid on anything worth bidding on, and a sniper will take it. Bid on something overpriced, and you lose. The only way to win without sniping is to buy out - which is exactly what I do.

Anyone trying to defend sniping is defending a practice that the devs intentionally designed the AH to avoid, and is essentially defending an exploit. Bidding is meant to be a system where you bid an amount you are comfortable, and then compete with someone until you 'win' or decide it is too expensive. Sniping removes that competition completely by grabbing the item at the last possible second without raising the price by bidding early. It is using the system in a way it wasn't intended to be used.

Thrawn
06-01-2015, 12:36 PM
This is the real issue - bid on anything worth bidding on, and a sniper will take it. Bid on something overpriced, and you lose. The only way to win without sniping is to buy out - which is exactly what I do.

Anyone trying to defend sniping is defending a practice that the devs intentionally designed the AH to avoid, and is essentially defending an exploit. Bidding is meant to be a system where you bid an amount you are comfortable, and then compete with someone until you 'win' or decide it is too expensive. Sniping removes that competition completely by grabbing the item at the last possible second without raising the price by bidding early. It is using the system in a way it wasn't intended to be used.

Bidding on an auction ending soon to try and win said auction is now an exploit, good to know.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 12:37 PM
For every person who lost an auction in this thread there is another player who won that auction. What we have in this thread, is people who lose auctions complaining about losing. Wanting to change the entire system for the sole fact that they can't win.

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 12:38 PM
Bidding on an auction ending soon to try and win said auction is now an exploit, good to know.
I wouldn't go that far either. They did build in a time-based sort. Until it's removed, and time of auction left is no longer a data-point in the auction for bidders, we can't discredit the role snipers play in the market.


For every person who lost an auction in this thread there is another player who won that auction. What we have in this thread, is people who lose auctions complaining about losing. Wanting to change the entire system for the sole fact that they can't win.
I'm sure the majority have salty moments regarding their experience, but the fact remains that people are making sniping a game-within-a-game. I'm sure there are people that do this on Ebay, and in all things in life. Akin to an older post linking folks to looking for deals as bottom-feeders. They are, but it doesn't make them a problem.. It just means that there is some inefficiency with the system that allows some to profit off others "scraps".

KingGabriel
06-01-2015, 12:39 PM
Being a less than great community by pointing out the blatantly obvious "Time Left" sort in the AH? And calling it an exploit? This isn't super secret tech here, thread is pretty funny actually.

I should point out my new player guide literally tells people how to do this. :D

dogmod
06-01-2015, 12:40 PM
If the system was specifically designed to avoid this Xenavire then they did a poor job at it since it is currently the most efficient way to go about things. It also seems to me to be mind numbingly awful way to spend time.

Bid/Ask seems better and better.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 12:41 PM
I should point out my new player guide literally tells people how to do this. :D

And I commend you for it, information is power.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 12:43 PM
Bidding on an auction ending soon to try and win said auction is now an exploit, good to know.

I said 'essentially', not 'actually'. The devs response when they were asked to give more timers was that they left it vague to discourage snipers. It is not strictly against the rules (as I have said) but it certainly not looked on favourably by the dev team, or they would have made it easier when they were asked to.

I have not once said it was black and white, but it isn't being honest and fair either, and it certainly isn't using the system as it was originally intended.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 12:44 PM
I said 'essentially', not 'actually'. The devs response when they were asked to give more timers was that they left it vague to discourage snipers. It is not strictly against the rules (as I have said) but it certainly not looked on favourably by the dev team, or they would have made it easier when they were asked to.

I have not once said it was black and white, but it isn't being honest and fair either, and it certainly isn't using the system as it was originally intended.

Wait, its not intended to sort by time left? What is intended to happen when I sort that column?

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 12:46 PM
Wait, its not intended to sort by time left? What is intended to happen when I sort that column?

I don't know why that was included - don't ask me. I am repeating what the devs said when they were asked about the 12~ hour left timer and why they couldn't add more, low timers. Based on the dev wording and that aspect of the AH being designed that way, the intent is clear, however the interface seems to be confused. *shrug*

Thrawn
06-01-2015, 12:48 PM
I said 'essentially', not 'actually'. The devs response when they were asked to give more timers was that they left it vague to discourage snipers. It is not strictly against the rules (as I have said) but it certainly not looked on favourably by the dev team, or they would have made it easier when they were asked to.

I have not once said it was black and white, but it isn't being honest and fair either, and it certainly isn't using the system as it was originally intended.

You're someone with a QA forum title explaining how the devs intended something to be used and implying other use is an exploit.

I also haven't seen a post from anyone that explains how sniping isn't honest or fair. It sucks if you're on the losing end of it, sure, but if a truly no sniping system is what is wanted it needs to be a buyout only marketplace, not an auction house. That is not the fault of the people sniping auctions or their problem to worry about.

Sparrow
06-01-2015, 12:49 PM
I think the onus has to be on listers to put min bids on their cards they can live with. Blaming "snipers" is kind of backwards, imo -- people need to take the initiative and be responsible for their own happiness, rather than waiting for CZE to protect them.

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 12:54 PM
I think the onus has to be on listers to put min bids on their cards they can live with. Blaming "snipers" is kind of backwards, imo -- people need to take the initiative and be responsible for their own happiness, rather than waiting for CZE to protect them.
I agree. There is really only two sides to this discussion

1 - Sniping is fair, was intended, and people should bid what they are willing to pay.

2 - Sniping is a problem, was not intended, and HEX should remove time associations to auctions. People should post and pay only what they are willing to.

Both sides of the discussion agree that people should pay what they are willing to, but only one scenario benefits those waiting to pay a minimum due to an opportunity.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 12:55 PM
I think the onus has to be on listers to put min bids on their cards they can live with. Blaming "snipers" is kind of backwards, imo -- people need to take the initiative and be responsible for their own happiness, rather than waiting for CZE to protect them.

It is also on the bidders who, rather than bidding a fair buying price, bid +1p then cry about getting sniped. When their bid wasn't a real bid in the first place, but a rather poor sniping attempt itself.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 12:55 PM
You're someone with a QA forum title explaining how the devs intended something to be used and implying other use is an exploit.

I also haven't seen a post from anyone that explains how sniping isn't honest or fair. It sucks if you're on the losing end of it, sure, but if a truly no sniping system is what is wanted it needs to be a buyout only marketplace, not an auction house. That is not the fault of the people sniping auctions or their problem to worry about.

Please don't make assumptions - the only time I have ever lost a bid to a sniper was when I was testing the 'trick' myself, and that was expected. I chose not to use the 'trick' because I felt it was a scummy thing to do.

To add to that, there has only been one dev response on the matter, and that response supports my side. I don't see how my title factors in at all when I am simply speaking the truth - the devs aren't happy with the idea of sniping.

Tazelbain
06-01-2015, 12:56 PM
"buyout only marketplace" which is essential what we have now. Except new players don't knows this and their ignorance is being taken advantage of.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 01:00 PM
Please don't make assumptions - the only time I have ever lost a bid to a sniper was when I was testing the 'trick' myself, and that was expected. I chose not to use the 'trick' because I felt it was a scummy thing to do.

To add to that, there has only been one dev response on the matter, and that response supports my side. I don't see how my title factors in at all when I am simply speaking the truth - the devs aren't happy with the idea of sniping.

Firstly, you want to change the system because you blatantly refuse to use the tools provided to everyone. Aslo, I'd argue that action speak louder than words, and the devs action of putting in a time sort shows that they deliberately provided tools to allow some amount of sniping in HEX.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 01:06 PM
Firstly, you want to change the system because you blatantly refuse to use the tools provided to everyone. Aslo, I'd argue that action speak louder than words, and the devs action of putting in a time sort shows that they deliberately provided tools to allow some amount of sniping in HEX.

I don't want it changed because I don't use it - I rarely use the AH at all, and snipers do not affect me in the slightest. I say it should be changed purely because the devs are not supporting it.

And secondly, the AH was a bit of a rush job, it isn't meant to be a permanent fixture, so it could have been something they tested and didn't take out due to time constraints. I honestly have no way of knowing why they included it though, but I don't think they intentionally added it to allow people to snipe.

Oli
06-01-2015, 01:08 PM
Maybe an eBay like system would help too. So you could enter your max bid and the system autobit till someone bit more.

IronPheasant
06-01-2015, 01:19 PM
It's extraordinarily annoying when it comes to commons and such. Hell, even rares that are only worth like $0.10.

Nobody puts that stuff up for 10 cents because of the price floors, so when they list it at the real price, it's the only damn copy on the entire auction house. Then, on top of that, you have increments that are basically nothing. $0.01 is nothing. 1 gold is $0.0001, which is even less than nothing. Of course that's going to artificially raise prices.

So you're almost never paying even a "fair" price on the auction hall. The only objects on there that are listed for their real price are chase rares+legends and booster packs. Just about everything else is overpriced.

Especially commons listed for gold. Good lord, people more than happy to spend more than $0.04 in gold at current ratios, to buy something listed at 4p buyout, when gold is primed to increase in value soon.

So yeah, it's pretty much designed to be a torture device currently. Maybe things will be a little more reasonable when it's possible to make full decks with PvE cards.

magic_gazz
06-01-2015, 01:19 PM
If you want to spend time trying to snipe auctions, getting sniped yourself is the cost of doing business.

People that get frustrated that they get outbid, use the BIN. The very reason they are bidding in the first place is cause they are trying to get a good deal themselves. How is there any reason to be angry? Just ignore bidding entirely, and go off the BIN.

I don't really understand the problem.

All that being said, a bid/ask market like yoss has been pushing a year+ now for, would be a welcome addition.

Exactly.

Use the buy it now and never get sniped.

The buy it now often reflects a more accurate price of the card anyway.

As for people complaining about explaining how the "snipe" works, its been said in almost every thread on this subject, so its not like it was a secret.

Sparrow
06-01-2015, 01:20 PM
It is also on the bidders who, rather than bidding a fair buying price, bid +1p then cry about getting sniped. When their bid wasn't a real bid in the first place, but a rather poor sniping attempt itself.
Snipers complaining about being outsniped is kind of ridiculous. OTOH, it shouldn't have been necessary for Xen and Gwaer to give hints for people to figure out how it works (even if it was already obvious to some/most). The system should be transparent. Hopefully it is more so now after yet another thread.

nicosharp
06-01-2015, 01:23 PM
Especially commons listed for gold. Good lord, people more than happy to spend more than $0.04 in gold at current ratios, to buy something listed at 4p buyout, when gold is primed to increase in value soon.
People that really want to make money playing Hex should just re-read the above over and over until you get it.

Sniping does not hold a candle to the above, and is frankly a waste of time and energy.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 01:27 PM
Snipers complaining about being outsniped is kind of ridiculous. OTOH, it shouldn't have been necessary for Xen and Gwaer to give hints for people to figure out how it works (even if it was already obvious to some/most). The system should be transparent. Hopefully it is more so now after yet another thread.

The only way to make the "time left" sort any more transparent would be to rename it "Snipe Sort".

IronPheasant
06-01-2015, 01:28 PM
People that really want to make money playing Hex should just re-read the above over and over until you get it.

* Buys every common at 4p
* Sells every common at 650 gold
* #winning

The (very visible) hand of the free market at work.

Malicus
06-01-2015, 02:54 PM
I don't really understand the people listing auctions for low bid, based on this kind of thread it seems unlikely they are getting anything near market value for their cards. That is the main reason I want a bid/ask system, since it makes the information on fair value of a card available and ensures everyone is getting close to that value.

As far as the sniping thing goes if the listers don't mind handing out the cheap deals then I don't see the point in complaining about who got the bargain.

TOOT
06-01-2015, 02:59 PM
I said 'essentially', not 'actually'. The devs response when they were asked to give more timers was that they left it vague to discourage snipers. It is not strictly against the rules (as I have said) but it certainly not looked on favourably by the dev team, or they would have made it easier when they were asked to.

I have not once said it was black and white, but it isn't being honest and fair either, and it certainly isn't using the system as it was originally intended.

Do you have any idea how often you do this in posts, and it is incredibly annoying to attempt to have a conversation where you can then argue semantics instead of the point in hand where we all know what you really meant?

Just some constructive criticism. As I'm sure others feel the same way.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 03:11 PM
I don't really understand the people listing auctions for low bid, based on this kind of thread it seems unlikely they are getting anything near market value for their cards. That is the main reason I want a bid/ask system, since it makes the information on fair value of a card available and ensures everyone is getting close to that value.

As far as the sniping thing goes if the listers don't mind handing out the cheap deals then I don't see the point in complaining about who got the bargain.

Information on card values is available in multiple places already.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 03:12 PM
Do you have any idea how often you do this in posts, and it is incredibly annoying to attempt to have a conversation where you can then argue semantics instead of the point in hand where we all know what you really meant?

Just some constructive criticism. As I'm sure others feel the same way.

It isn't semantics, I very clearly didn't say what was being implied. I wouldn't have even needed to clarify if people didn't love putting words in my mouth.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 03:15 PM
It isn't semantics, I very clearly didn't say what was being implied. I wouldn't have even needed to clarify if people didn't love putting words in my mouth.

It sounds more like you putting words into the devs mouths, honestly.

stiii
06-01-2015, 03:15 PM
* Buys every common at 4p
* Sells every common at 650 gold
* #winning

The (very visible) hand of the free market at work.

Seems like you'd need a bot to do this to make it worth the effort.

Thrawn
06-01-2015, 03:17 PM
It sounds more like you putting words into the devs mouths, honestly.

Which seems very dangerous. A new player browses the forums and just sees "Someone that works with QA said auction sniping is essentially exploiting since the devs don't want it".

But since the points I raised weren't actually addressed anyways I just quit replying.

Sparrow
06-01-2015, 03:18 PM
The only way to make the "time left" sort any more transparent would be to rename it "Snipe Sort".
I like it!!

I was thinking, though, more in terms of just a warning pop up that can be turned off from appearing again to make it more idiot-proof. Something like, "No whining if your item sells for close to the min bid you've listed."

But, yeah, there would still be complaints.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 03:26 PM
It sounds more like you putting words into the devs mouths, honestly.

I am repeating information - they don't support sniping. Take that however you want, but it came from a dev, with no other quote to disprove it.


Which seems very dangerous. A new player browses the forums and just sees "Someone that works on QA said auction sniping is possibly seen as an exploit to the devs".

I never said it was an exploit, I just said it was close, based on dev comments. If it was an exploit, people would be banned, and we all know that doesn't and probably will never happen. It doesn't change the fact that the devs have made comments about not wanting to support snipers.

If you want to drive a crusade against me based on your intepretation of my words, fine, be my guest. But I have said nothing wrong, have not been impolite, and have not spread misinformation, so you feel free to grasp at straws.

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 03:30 PM
You're not simply repeating information, you're spin doctoring it.

magic_gazz
06-01-2015, 03:33 PM
I don't really understand the people listing auctions for low bid, based on this kind of thread it seems unlikely they are getting anything near market value for their cards. That is the main reason I want a bid/ask system, since it makes the information on fair value of a card available and ensures everyone is getting close to that value.

As far as the sniping thing goes if the listers don't mind handing out the cheap deals then I don't see the point in complaining about who got the bargain.

You list with the lowest bid so your card is at the front.

If everyone is listing (for example) Vampire King with a bid of 1000 and a buyout of 1300, putting a lower bid makes your card first on the list and gives it more chance of being bought.

Often I see people listing packs with a bid of 1 (and I have done this), the packs get bought pretty fast for the buyout price anyway.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 03:34 PM
You're not simply repeating information, you're spin doctoring it.

How? If HexEnt doesn't condone sniping, how else can you express that they don't want people to snipe, without it being a bannable offense? They don't want to ban people over it, obviously, but they don't want to facilitate it. In short, it isn't an exploit, however it isn't a condoned action, making it pretty close to an exploit.

This is pretty simple logic, really. Use it if you want, but understand you were never meant to use the system in that specific way.

Thrawn
06-01-2015, 03:37 PM
If you want to drive a crusade against me based on your intepretation of my words, fine, be my guest. But I have said nothing wrong, have not been impolite, and have not spread misinformation, so you feel free to grasp at straws.

Take it personally if you chose but I would call out anyone with a title be it you, Ossuary, Colin, Gwear, whoever that started throwing around stuff like "devs intentionally designed" and "defending an exploit" in the same sentence to defend a side of a discussion. Having a forum title that implies you have some sort of connection to the company should hold someone to a slightly higher standard of posting.

magic_gazz
06-01-2015, 03:38 PM
Kind of off topic, but maybe people should not have undertitles that make them look more official than others.

People might think you are giving official word and as we can see here, it is something people are going to bring up.

They do not add any value, so probably better to get rid of them.

magic_gazz
06-01-2015, 03:40 PM
How? If HexEnt doesn't condone sniping, how else can you express that they don't want people to snipe, without it being a bannable offense? They don't want to ban people over it, obviously, but they don't want to facilitate it. In short, it isn't an exploit, however it isn't a condoned action, making it pretty close to an exploit.

This is pretty simple logic, really. Use it if you want, but understand you were never meant to use the system in that specific way.

Sorry but you are so far wrong here its not even close.

People using the sort feature EXACTLY as it has been designed can not be considered even close to an exploit.

If they don't want sniping, then they have done a bad job implementing that.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 03:42 PM
Take it personally if you chose but I would call out anyone with a title be it you, Ossuary, Colin, Gwear, whoever that started throwing around stuff like "devs intentionally designed" and "defending an exploit" in the same sentence to defend a side of a discussion. Having a forum title that implies you have some sort of connection to the company should hold someone to a slightly higher standard of posting.

And all I am doing is repeating information that was given. You are just choosing to intepret things in a way that you can use to sabotage my reputation. I have not insulted anyone, I have not given any incorrect information, and I never once absolutely claimed this was an exploit, however you choose to spin it.

Xenavire
06-01-2015, 03:45 PM
Sorry but you are so far wrong here its not even close.

People using the sort feature EXACTLY as it has been designed can not be considered even close to an exploit.

If they don't want sniping, then they have done a bad job implementing that.

What they have said supercedes whatever is implemented. If they choose to redact said comment, then the implementation is correct and intended.

But I can see all that will happen in this thread will be people trying to goad me into making a mistake, so I am going to step out.

Sparrow
06-01-2015, 03:46 PM
I enjoy sifting through any inside information non-oranges choose to share, but don't lend it that much weight. I don't think Xen committed any type of foul (or fowl, for that matter).

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 03:59 PM
How? If HexEnt doesn't condone sniping, how else can you express that they don't want people to snipe, without it being a bannable offense? They don't want to ban people over it, obviously, but they don't want to facilitate it. In short, it isn't an exploit, however it isn't a condoned action, making it pretty close to an exploit.

This is pretty simple logic, really. Use it if you want, but understand you were never meant to use the system in that specific way.

Your logic only makes sense if you ignore the fact that they built a sort column into the AH with the sole purpose of sorting auctions by time left (the existence of this column facilitates sniping). Your earlier response to this was just twisted logic that the sniper sort column was just kinda an accident...oops

I do know it was said that sniping puts a big load on the sytem, which is the reason given for not adding more exact auction closing times. But this is far from devs considering it scummy or exploitative.

Here is a link to a post on the matter from Chark: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36713&page=3&p=386733&viewfull=1#post386733

DocX
06-01-2015, 03:59 PM
I do not condone sniping as the standard practice on the AH, so I won't spread it around (because sniping wars are not healthy in my eyes.)


Wow, thanks for sharing exactly what I was intentionally not sharing. *slowclap*

Xen, even if you're not a fan of sniping, keeping the mechanics obscure is not going to prevent it from happening. I'd rather everyone work from the same starting point (as much as can be done in any economic model). Restricting information does not help non-snipers, it just makes the snipers job easier and promotes confusion by folks without all the data.


simply adding a random amount of time after someone bids on an item would resolve the issue I think. It's a common way to combat bid sniping anyway.

This is generally referred to as Overtime Bidding. Given the current AH implementation, it'd likely be easier to add on as a modification to the system. Doing bid/ask, like nico advocates, would be arguably better from an economic perspective, but would be effectively like implementing a completely new AH with all the resource necessities (programming, testing, qa, etc) that entails.


I like the adding of small, random amount of time to the auction for each bid.

If you're going to do Overtime Bidding, it's typically better from an implementation standpoint to have a fixed time increase. Let's say each bid adds 10 minutes to the auction. If anyone bids on an auction with less than 10 minutes left, the auction automatically adds 10 more minutes. In this scenario, there's not really a benefit to add a variable amount. Each bid triggers a time addition. The fact it's static or variable doesn't add any utility to the method, at least that I can see. I'm happy to be enlightened about something I've missed.


And secondly, the AH was a bit of a rush job, it isn't meant to be a permanent fixture, so it could have been something they tested and didn't take out due to time constraints. I honestly have no way of knowing why they included it though, but I don't think they intentionally added it to allow people to snipe.

Having the field in there and not being able to sort on it seems like intentionally hobbling the interface and breaking the UI expectations. "I can sort on every other field, why can't I sort on this field?" Besides, if they're providing time information (which they absolutely should because I'd like to verify I posted my auction for the length of time I intended), obfuscating that information or making it harder won't eliminate its use; it'll only make the barrier to use higher so those with more time/effort/expertise will be able to do things those with less time/effort/expertise. If the AH is intended to be a game in and of itself, then this can be seen as a skill test. . . . but as someone who typically prefers more information over less, I think it's an unnecessary barrier that won't apply relatively equally to all.

Zophie
06-01-2015, 04:30 PM
Xen, even if you're not a fan of sniping, keeping the mechanics obscure is not going to prevent it from happening. I'd rather everyone work from the same starting point (as much as can be done in any economic model). Restricting information does not help non-snipers, it just makes the snipers job easier and promotes confusion by folks without all the data.



This is generally referred to as Overtime Bidding. Given the current AH implementation, it'd likely be easier to add on as a modification to the system. Doing bid/ask, like nico advocates, would be arguably better from an economic perspective, but would be effectively like implementing a completely new AH with all the resource necessities (programming, testing, qa, etc) that entails.



If you're going to do Overtime Bidding, it's typically better from an implementation standpoint to have a fixed time increase. Let's say each bid adds 10 minutes to the auction. If anyone bids on an auction with less than 10 minutes left, the auction automatically adds 10 more minutes. In this scenario, there's not really a benefit to add a variable amount. Each bid triggers a time addition. The fact it's static or variable doesn't add any utility to the method, at least that I can see. I'm happy to be enlightened about something I've missed.



Having the field in there and not being able to sort on it seems like intentionally hobbling the interface and breaking the UI expectations. "I can sort on every other field, why can't I sort on this field?" Besides, if they're providing time information (which they absolutely should because I'd like to verify I posted my auction for the length of time I intended), obfuscating that information or making it harder won't eliminate its use; it'll only make the barrier to use higher so those with more time/effort/expertise will be able to do things those with less time/effort/expertise. If the AH is intended to be a game in and of itself, then this can be seen as a skill test. . . . but as someone who typically prefers more information over less, I think it's an unnecessary barrier that won't apply relatively equally to all.

Good stuff Doc, I agree that there's no reason to keep this basic info about how to use the AH's currently implemented sorting features a secret. The function exists in game quite clearly and there's no reason to hide this information from the general public when a subsection are already taking advantage it. Aside from that, I should also point out that just because this method exists doesn't mean it's a very good method. Even if you practice this method of sniping you still need to spend a lot of time just watching cards expire waiting for a good deal, and then you also need to know a good deal if you see one, and you have to be able to make that determination fairly quickly before it expires... so there's definitely a lot of luck, time investment, and skill involved in the whole process.

Also a fixed time increment in Overtime bidding sounds like it would work just fine, though I don't know how much of an impact overtime bidding in general would be on the servers themselves, so whether we get something like that would depend on whether the devs can support whatever additional server load it would take, especially considering the potential growth we get after set 3, dungeons, and official launch.

Gwaer
06-01-2015, 05:00 PM
Whew, I went back to bed... So let me say that sorting by time isn't the issue i was talking about. There's a way to know the exact time an auction will end, not just looking at the auction that will end most recently. If there is a random amount of time added after every bid, the way to know the exact second that an auction will expire will be removed. I have no problem with people knowing generally that a particular auction of a particular item will be the next to end, just the exact second that will happen. If every single time someone bids an increment of time between 30 seconds to 2 minutes was added, it would be impossible to use the auction house tools to determine the exact moment an auction ends, though it might cause some auctions to be reordered when they're ending near one another, and you can make a guesstimate, adding on bids to the new lowest auction will also increase its time, that will at least allow people who are trying to snipe to drive the price up to something more reasonable, rather than being the person with the more exact known end time winning for +1p guaranteed.

Zophie
06-01-2015, 05:12 PM
Whew, I went back to bed... So let me say that sorting by time isn't the issue i was talking about. There's a way to know the exact time an auction will end, not just looking at the auction that will end most recently. If there is a random amount of time added after every bid, the way to know the exact second that an auction will expire will be removed. I have no problem with people knowing generally that a particular auction of a particular item will be the next to end, just the exact second that will happen. If every single time someone bids an increment of time between 30 seconds to 2 minutes was added, it would be impossible to use the auction house tools to determine the exact moment an auction ends, though it might cause some auctions to be reordered when they're ending near one another, and you can make a guesstimate, adding on bids to the new lowest auction will also increase its time, that will at least allow people who are trying to snipe to drive the price up to something more reasonable, rather than being the person with the more exact known end time winning for +1p guaranteed.

The method you're referring to of finding the time of expiry would always still be caught by the more luck based approach of sorting by time, so even if they didn't have the exact time of finishing there would still be others that would swipe it in the final moments just by chance. But yeah, your suggestion of overtime bidding add time to an expiry any time there is a bid (not just in the last 10 minutes before expiry) would definitely prevent this from being an issue at all. In fact it would actually encourage more expiring bid wars which would allow the auctions to get drawn out for a while until the card reaches an acceptable price, which would be a lot more interesting and better for the market than random sniping. I'm sure some will still slip through the radar and get sold for dirt cheap when no one is paying attention, but to be fair that's the seller's fault for setting the minimum bid too low to start.

TLDR: I like this idea of extra time added to auction expiration every time a bid is made.

magic_gazz
06-01-2015, 05:37 PM
Sort by time remaining, change it so the longest time is first, new listing appears, now you know in 48 hours the exact time it finishes.

Its not rocket science.

The more people doing this the better as it becomes a less profitable option.

IronPheasant
06-01-2015, 05:38 PM
I also have a crazy and radical idea: Instead of the auction hall being a torture device, we could... just list the time that an auction is going to expire?

Yoss
06-01-2015, 05:52 PM
Instructions thread:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36869

israel.kendall
06-01-2015, 05:55 PM
I also have a crazy and radical idea: Instead of the auction hall being a torture device, we could... just list the time that an auction is going to expire?

and what do you have against Torture devices may I ask?

KingGabriel
06-01-2015, 05:56 PM
Instructions thread:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36869

As I said, this is also covered in my new player guide. :P

RamzaBehoulve
06-01-2015, 06:28 PM
If there are bots, they suck, I win 80%+ of my sniping.

The thing is, sometimes there are 4-5 people at once sniping the same card, that's when it becomes a bit more about luck than anything else. However, when it's just you and 1-2 others, if you are fast, you'll win most of time.

When you see a rare coming you want to snipe, try to snipe a few common/uncommons earlier to try and gauge how many people are sniping. There are times of the day I'm pretty much the only one sniping.

ForgedSol
06-01-2015, 06:34 PM
I too agree that it's much better to just share the information. The sort by time button is a pretty straightforward feature. It's better to explain rather than imply there are hidden techniques and leave people wondering if bots and/or super secret exploits are around. Letting the information out there allows for discussion on alternatives if sniping isn't desirable. Regardless of what the devs intended, it's the system they've created.

I do think using the overtime bid system of resetting the clock to 10 minutes left if an auction clock is less than 10 minutes is a pretty simple solution to prevent sniping. Then we could just show the time auctions are going to end rather than make people have to figure it out with the Sort Time column. This will eliminate a lot of the confusion about bots and put an end to a lot of the sniping.

(If sniping isn't desirable.)

Turtlewing
06-02-2015, 10:49 AM
I don't know why that was included - don't ask me. I am repeating what the devs said when they were asked about the 12~ hour left timer and why they couldn't add more, low timers. Based on the dev wording and that aspect of the AH being designed that way, the intent is clear, however the interface seems to be confused. *shrug*

Here's what probably happened:

Corey decided to limit the user's ability to see when an auction ends to make sniping impractical, but the developer instead of doing a two layer sort by hours left then randomly simply sorted by milliseconds left and left the obscuring of end time to the presentation of the values in the table. It then takes a decently sized user base to reveal that you can in practice snipe with that system because you have to have a large enough volume of auctions that there are always some ending "right now". It's a really easy bug to miss.

As to why it hasn't been fixed, that's probably a manpower and priority issue. This is not a bug that prevents people form being able to use the AH or play the game, and it can be mitigated by setting staring bids, by bidding more than current+1, and by using buy it now. It will probably get fixed as part of a larger AH pass when said pass gets priority.

ossuary
06-02-2015, 03:13 PM
Or, Xenavire is taking a single comment from a single dev out of context and attempting to apply it to the entire system as a whole. But, you know, feel free to keep reading deeper meaning into single sentence responses to specific questions from over a year ago. :)

KingGabriel
06-02-2015, 03:15 PM
Or, Xenavire is taking a single comment from a single dev out of context and attempting to apply it to the entire system as a whole. But, you know, feel free to keep reading deeper meaning into single sentence responses to specific questions from over a year ago. :)

Half life 3 confirmed.

Tazelbain
06-02-2015, 03:21 PM
Or, Xenavire is taking a single comment from a single dev out of context and attempting to apply it to the entire system as a whole. But, you know, feel free to keep reading deeper meaning into single sentence responses to specific questions from over a year ago. :)
But there is certain logic to it: you don't go out of your way to obscure the precise time of auctions if you wish people to use the precise time of auctions.

Phenteo
06-02-2015, 03:23 PM
We monitor the auction house and have not noticed any abnormal activity requiring further actions. If/when there are issues arising we look into every situation.

That being said, sniping without assistance of other programs is not against the rules.

This conversation has devolved from the original intent. Closing thread.