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Salverus
06-02-2015, 04:45 PM
with the AI getting smarter and smarter due to the AI misplays being fixed, I was wondering if there are eventually also plans to make the AI easier over time to keep the same level of difficulty?
Because the Frost Ring Arena is out for several months now, but as far as i have noticed, no changes have been made to either the champions themselves or their special PvE cards. Only adding new ones and fixing the currently not working abilities (e.g. several champions never use their charge powers).
Or is the goal to have all PvE encounters at the highest difficulty rate possible? Since we only have one PvE area so far i always assumed it was supposed to be an entry level regarding difficulty, but imagine if for every match in the arena you are playing there was another human taking in control and making the decisions. The arena would then become much more difficult where only a top notch deck will be able to plow through. Because that will eventually be the same difficulty as if all AI misplays are fixed in the future.

(I know that it will take some time before this 'problem' becomes a real issue, but why not discuss about it now already?)

Gwaer
06-02-2015, 04:58 PM
There are plans for variable difficulty encounters. Also, for AI personalities. The frost ring encounters are supposed to be more difficult, and will only get more difficult. Though I expect there to be changes to decks, and new champions added over time.

Mejis
06-02-2015, 05:35 PM
I would love to say the arena AI has gotten better over the months... but I can't.

There's still so many bad plays. I really want good, solid AI with more PvE options more than anything, but I worry. I want Chris and the team to prove me wrong. I'd actually love for a Friday update to be all about AI implementation etc.

I want the AI to kick my ass to I have to sit theorising new decks and strategies.

katkillad
06-02-2015, 05:39 PM
They mentioned they could change the decks on a whim, if they just replace the cards the AI doesn't know how to play it would go a long way to make things more difficult.

Fyren
06-02-2015, 05:40 PM
Hell, I don't need it to kick my ass, I'd settle for it to stop Murdering its own troops when my only on-board troop is an artifact.

Yoss
06-02-2015, 05:54 PM
1. R&D designs the decks with human level AI in mind. Therefore, we can assume that Frost Ring Arena is currently much easier than it is supposed to be. In fact, Colin has explicitly said this in regards to Uruunaz.

2. Chris is building the AI to have both "personality" and scale factors for difficulty.

KingGabriel
06-02-2015, 06:14 PM
Also, they can nerf PvE cards/equipment although they haven't chosen to do so yet.

ossuary
06-02-2015, 07:28 PM
Also, they can nerf PvE cards/equipment although they haven't chosen to do so yet.

Yes actually, they have. Both Lightning Elemental and Water Elemental were changed from triggering on "damage" to "combat damage" shortly after public test realm access was made available, due to some degenerate possibilities.

Mejis
06-02-2015, 08:09 PM
Yes actually, they have. Both Lightning Elemental and Water Elemental were changed from triggering on "damage" to "combat damage" shortly after public test realm access was made available, due to some degenerate possibilities.

I wasn't aware of that, good to know thanks.

I actually meant to ask the other day, have any cards from PvP ever been changed once implemented? So far as I'm aware, they haven't, but wasn't 100% sure.

wolzarg
06-02-2015, 08:14 PM
What was the degenerate combo with lightning elemental?


I wasn't aware of that, good to know thanks.

I actually meant to ask the other day, have any cards from PvP ever been changed once implemented? So far as I'm aware, they haven't, but wasn't 100% sure.

Some cards have changed to work as intended.

ossuary
06-02-2015, 08:35 PM
I actually meant to ask the other day, have any cards from PvP ever been changed once implemented? So far as I'm aware, they haven't, but wasn't 100% sure.

PVP cards will not be changed after release, except in the case like Mejis pointed out, where a card that doesn't work the way they intended when they made it will be updated to work correctly. Other than that, PVP cards are set in stone once they are released. That's necessary to preserve the value of our collections. PVP cards will only be banned from specific formats as required, not modified or nerfed.

PVE cards, however, are fair game, as they are under no such promise. If something makes content too easy or otherwise causes problems, they may modify the PVE card (or its equipment, or something it interacts with, etc.) to make it more balanced.

Mejis
06-02-2015, 08:51 PM
PVP cards will not be changed after release, except in the case like Mejis pointed out, where a card that doesn't work the way they intended when they made it will be updated to work correctly. Other than that, PVP cards are set in stone once they are released. That's necessary to preserve the value of our collections. PVP cards will only be banned from specific formats as required, not modified or nerfed.

PVE cards, however, are fair game, as they are under no such promise. If something makes content too easy or otherwise causes problems, they may modify the PVE card (or its equipment, or something it interacts with, etc.) to make it more balanced.

Cool, thanks guys, and of course makes sense re: collection value.

KingGabriel
06-02-2015, 09:02 PM
Yes actually, they have. Both Lightning Elemental and Water Elemental were changed from triggering on "damage" to "combat damage" shortly after public test realm access was made available, due to some degenerate possibilities.
That's not the same as a live nerf though.

Tazelbain
06-03-2015, 07:43 AM
I am petty sure they buffed cluckadon by making the battle effect optional.

EccentricFan
06-03-2015, 08:12 AM
I'm pretty sure I noticed some recent changes to the AI. It used to always be that when the headless executioner challenge came up, the AI loved to hold the card back from attacking to defend if its health was getting low.

Lately, it's always been aggressive with it attacking even on the cusp of its demise.

wolzarg
06-03-2015, 08:25 AM
Yep i have noticed the AI getting better over time. It is in small increments but it adds up. For example it now attacks with 0 power creatures with rage and doesn't hold back things that can't block to block with them. Also haven't seen warbot kill it self with droo's lately but that might just be my bad luck.

Sparrow
06-03-2015, 09:35 AM
Maybe I've been reading the wrong update notes or have missed some, but I've seen nothing about AI improvements. Certainly not noticing a difference in how it plays.

Saeijou
06-03-2015, 01:22 PM
Maybe I've been reading the wrong update notes or have missed some, but I've seen nothing about AI improvements. Certainly not noticing a difference in how it plays.

not recently... but with the backend updates we had for some weeks every tuesday

Sparrow
06-03-2015, 05:00 PM
not recently... but with the backend updates we had for some weeks every tuesday
Do they list the improvements somewhere?

strawwmann
06-04-2015, 02:47 AM
What was the degenerate combo with lightning elemental?


The original infinite combo with Azurefate Sorceress:

http://i.imgur.com/EmLUTbl.jpg
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40634&p=455328&viewfull=1#post455328

Xenavire
06-04-2015, 03:16 AM
There was no combo with Lightning Elemental. The combo used Water Elemental.

wolzarg
06-04-2015, 04:40 AM
There was no combo with Lightning Elemental. The combo used Water Elemental.
That's what i thought to bad the lighting elemental got the nerf for no reason then :#

RamzaBehoulve
06-04-2015, 05:11 AM
There was no combo with Lightning Elemental. The combo used Water Elemental.

Someone using Goremaster would disagree with that statement.

Also, I did notice the AI playing better in the last two weeks. Or mabye it's just me, I don't know.

Xenavire
06-04-2015, 05:49 AM
Someone using Goremaster would disagree with that statement.

Also, I did notice the AI playing better in the last two weeks. Or mabye it's just me, I don't know.

With swiftstrike, it buffs Goremaster anyway, but yeah, I guess removing the chance to toss does make sense.

Salverus
06-04-2015, 05:56 AM
this post was WRONG

Xenavire
06-04-2015, 06:55 AM
no, if it is blocked, you do not get a charge. Only if you damage the champion. Before it was a charge upon attacking.

It was? Interesting. I thought it always required damage to be dealt. I can see why they changed that then.

ossuary
06-04-2015, 08:44 AM
It wasn't. It was charge upon any damage to champion, as opposed to combat damage only - just like Water Elemental.

Also, for the record, I never said degenerate combo, I said degenerate possibilities, which is not necessarily the same thing. It's more like "this may cause problems in the future - we better change it now." :)

Salverus
06-04-2015, 08:57 AM
oh sorry for remembering it wrong.
I only know that i had seen a good deck with them, then tried to replicate the deck and it wasnt fully working anymore ;( Ill go back to lurking.

Fyren
06-04-2015, 11:40 AM
I said degenerate possibilities, which is not necessarily the same thing.

Worried it might get caught in a compromising position with a Mancubus, a Reactor Bot and a Wreckasaur?

ossuary
06-04-2015, 11:44 AM
I mean, who doesn't worry about that? Wreckasaurus has no peripheral vision whatsoever, and Mancubus is unscrupulous in the bedroom. You do NOT want to get caught in between them. And the Reactor Bot's place in all this is shocking, to say the least.

Fyren
06-04-2015, 01:15 PM
I mean, who doesn't worry about that? Wreckasaurus has no peripheral vision whatsoever, and Mancubus is unscrupulous in the bedroom. You do NOT want to get caught in between them. And the Reactor Bot's place in all this is shocking, to say the least.

Well. Played. Sir. :D