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RobHaven
06-03-2015, 03:39 PM
Will there be a gold fee to break things down, or just to craft items?
What kinds of components will cards break down to? Equipment? Do they both break down into the same things?
Is there just one component per rarity per commodity, or will there be a few?
Will the card's set matter? Block?
What kind of ingredients will be in recipes?

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

ossuary
06-03-2015, 03:55 PM
At the beginning, I expect to be able to break down any card to get materials (otherwise, it's not a real sink for total cards in the system). This would include PVP cards. I doubt the sets will matter, we'll most likely get generic materials. You won't see this system letting you make PVP cards for free (too exploitable) except for a few minor exceptions, commons or staple cards or whatnot. Mostly it will be for making PVE items and equipment, consumable buffs, etc. Breaking cards down should be free, but there MAY be a gold cost to craft some items, that would be fine.

However, I also expect some really cool stuff, like only being able to make some items if you find a recipe for it, which will drop from high level encounters or as rare dungeon loot. Some of the better AAs could come this way, allowing the players who have put in the work to get a premium from other players who want the goodies.

thegreybetween
06-03-2015, 04:09 PM
While we haven't heard anything of substance on crafting aside from the general assurance that we will eventually have a system, it is definitely an area that is fun to brainstorm in terms of how it might work.

My prevailing theory is (and this is ALL unofficial conjecture):

- Crafting mats will exist per shard and per rarity, as well as a few "extra" ingredients that may spawn as loot to make special items. Therefore, we'll have +/- 24 "standard ingredients (Common Ruby material, Rare Wild material, Legendary Shardless material, etc) and some number of loot-drop-only materials to make the premium items.

- Crafting will require blueprints/recipes for most items, which will come as loot drops, chest loot, etc. So in order to brew a specific card or equipment, you will not only need to harvest the materials, but also learn the recipe. There may be a handful of mundane items, or possibly consumable items (daily buff items) that can be learned through experimentation.

- I do not expect breaking cards down into materials will have a Gold fee associated with it. However, we may have some sort of time gate related to crafting that might only allow us to break down/craft/research a specific number of assets in a given real timeframe.

- Depending on the particulars of the account-level system, crafting may very well come with an XP system and unlockable perks which are required to maximize the system. For example, with a perk system, you may only be able to craft common cards until you invest points into card crafting skills. One point gets you uncommons, two for rares, etc. With such a system, eventually working up to the ability to craft AA/special cards might require a fair investment, which would allow the crafting ystem to eventually produce valuable items without flat-out stalling the economy if such items could be instantly crafted by any player.

Obviously, depending on how things are finally implemented, many of the above items can get blended together. For example, a skill-perk system may make it easier to craft some items without recipes, or perhaps recipes cannot even be learned without the proper perks. Etc.

Anyway, just pure speculation on some possibilities. I am really looking forward to hearing more about the official system, and I do hope it is a fairly robust system that justifies some effort. MMOs with tacked-on crafting systems are a big bummer, IMO.

israel.kendall
06-03-2015, 04:13 PM
Well, Cory said crafting may allow the breaking down of "very limited" PvP cards, and then only commons and uncommons.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38969&page=28&p=429812&viewfull=1#post429812

But I am personally hoping they rethink the idea of allowing the breakdown of PvP cards at all, even commons. If there were no F2P players, then we would have a load of commons floating around that no one wants. But the F2P crowd puts extreme demand on some of our commons.

Crackling Bolt's average sale price the past 7 days was 17p. What would happen once set 1 is out of print, and everyone has been breaking all their Zombie Vultures for crafting over the years, then a zombie deck with vulture as a key card becomes the best deck for [insert raid / dungeon here]? Zombie Vulture could become insanely high priced. This problem would only be magnified if uncommon PvP cards are allowed to be broken down.

bootlace
06-03-2015, 04:49 PM
Crafting makes the most sense for things like consumables were you'll repeatedly need to craft more as all creations are eventually consumed and hence don't lead to saturation.

Stok3d
06-03-2015, 04:59 PM
I've heard a lot of theorizing by the community on raid buffs, AAs, etc, but haven't heard too much on the acquisition and possession of the recipes itself.

Imagine if this new RAID has a 2% drop rate on this extra rare recipe. The first lucky few who happened to get it could stand to make a fortune on the AH before it becomes widespread. Or, will the recipes be large gold sinks or tied to an achievement? Are the recipes to be sold on the AH or BoP? What if some of the recipes were BoP and only found in the primal chests?

I'm interested to see how this all plays out and believe the determined acquisition of the recipes itself to play a significant economic role on many levels...

magic_gazz
06-03-2015, 06:37 PM
This is a subject I have no idea whatsoever about. Its definitely an interesting one.

If I can do ANYTHING worthwhile with all the extra cards I have it will be a bonus.

I always like the idea of AA cards as it is an easy way to generate something of value without too much work.

I guess we are probably a fair way away from this feature and that is why we have not heard much more about it.

hex_colin
06-03-2015, 07:07 PM
Something on topic...

Ossuary - clean out some space in your PMs! ;)

Sorry for the interruption, please continue... :)

sukebe
06-03-2015, 07:11 PM
Well, Cory said crafting may allow the breaking down of "very limited" PvP cards, and then only commons and uncommons.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38969&page=28&p=429812&viewfull=1#post429812

But I am personally hoping they rethink the idea of allowing the breakdown of PvP cards at all, even commons. If there were no F2P players, then we would have a load of commons floating around that no one wants. But the F2P crowd puts extreme demand on some of our commons.

Crackling Bolt's average sale price the past 7 days was 17p. What would happen once set 1 is out of print, and everyone has been breaking all their Zombie Vultures for crafting over the years, then a zombie deck with vulture as a key card becomes the best deck for [insert raid / dungeon here]? Zombie Vulture could become insanely high priced. This problem would only be magnified if uncommon PvP cards are allowed to be broken down.

Cory said we could craft some common and uncommon pvp cards, nothing on that post said anything about breaking pvp cards down for components. I am fairly certain we will get to break down any and all pvp cards for crafting components.

RCDv57
06-03-2015, 07:41 PM
Ossuary - clean out some space in your PMs! ;)

Sorry for the interruption, please continue... :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P5qbcRAXVk

ossuary
06-03-2015, 07:50 PM
Ossuary - clean out some space in your PMs! ;)

Sorry for the interruption, please continue... :)

Space cleared. ;)

israel.kendall
06-03-2015, 07:54 PM
Cory said we could craft some common and uncommon pvp cards, nothing on that post said anything about breaking pvp cards down for components. I am fairly certain we will get to break down any and all pvp cards for crafting components.

You're right, I think I may have failed at reading comprehension on this one lol. Haven't slept in a couple days...

Voormas
06-03-2015, 08:45 PM
I expect that the crafting materials would be broken down by rarity (common, uncommon, rare, legendary, promo) and quality (so "regular" material and then a "superior" version with a lower drop rate)

To start with there will be a ton of cards getting broken down, plus one of the Kickstarter rewards was "1 of each crafting material" - so I expect that most recipes might call for some bulk amount of materials and then some might ask for one or two of the "superior" materials

I would hope we can create single-use items of some kind (maps to Uruunaz' lair / one-shot Charge powers / etc), cards (AA or otherwise), mercs, PvE equipment, STICKERS (never giving up on this idea), etc

Recipies for some things would be required but having a large pool of things that people can just start crafting from the word go would also be nice

ossuary
06-03-2015, 08:48 PM
As long as we can have a sticker that looks like one of those jagged comic book guy-getting-punched bubbles, with "Pew pew!" written in it, I will be happy (and attach it to every single dwarf and robot I own).

I am 100% serious.

sukebe
06-03-2015, 08:54 PM
As long as we can have a sticker that looks like one of those jagged comic book guy-getting-punched bubbles, with "Pew pew!" written in it, I will be happy (and attach it to every single dwarf and robot I own).

I am 100% serious.

I wasn't big on the sticker idea at first but this now seems worth doing...

LNQ
06-03-2015, 11:07 PM
What about breaking down equipment? Will equipment give the same materials according to the same rules as proposed for cards? Or will cards give 2x or 3x the amount but otherwise be identical?

Or a separate set of materials for eqs?

israel.kendall
06-03-2015, 11:16 PM
I wasn't big on the sticker idea at first but this now seems worth doing...

I think stickers are a mutilation of art.

sukebe
06-04-2015, 12:44 AM
What about breaking down equipment? Will equipment give the same materials according to the same rules as proposed for cards? Or will cards give 2x or 3x the amount but otherwise be identical?

Or a separate set of materials for eqs?

I am hoping it is not kept separate from the card crafting mats. I like the idea of having lots of different crafting though so I hope they at least give them a different "loot" table when it comes to mats so they have a higher chance of giving one type of mat and a lower chance of giving a different type of mat when compared to taking cards apart

szimek
06-04-2015, 12:50 AM
And there is also Star Dust. Can be from items/equipment, can bo for crafting. Maybe both.

Gwaer
06-04-2015, 01:06 AM
Instead of static stickers you could have effects you attach to cards when an event happens, like they say pew pew when they exhaust, or sparks fly off of them when they're damaged, but most of the time it's the standard art.

Salverus
06-04-2015, 02:02 AM
If they use the recipe system where you have to find the recipe first I wonder if the recipe is consumed upon crafting or can be used as many times as you want.
Because if the recipe is consumed, i do not think they will ever get sold for high prices, while if a recipe is permanent and rare to find, they will go for insane prices i imagine.

Also what if we can craft something that will change in which slot an item goes. E.g. you can make turn the exoskeleton chest piece from hornet bots into an exoskeleton gloves piece so you can equip it at the same time with the tinkerers robes.
Because right now its very difficult to find a deck where all 6 slots are being used. Mostly you cant use more than 3 because everything goes into the same slot.

ossuary
06-04-2015, 04:17 AM
Certain equipment goes into the same slot on purpose, to avoid making a specific set of cards too strong. Don't expect that to change. You'll always have to make hard choices about which cards to use in your deck, or which ones to buff.

nickon
06-05-2015, 05:56 AM
If they use the recipe system where you have to find the recipe first I wonder if the recipe is consumed upon crafting or can be used as many times as you want. Because if the recipe is consumed, i do not think they will ever get sold for high prices, while if a recipe is permanent and rare to find, they will go for insane prices i imagine.

I was wondering the exact same thing. I don't have any experience in MMO's, so I don't know how recipies generally tend to work;

do you need to own the recipe in your inventory
VS
is it sufficient to know which consumables to combine in which specific order?

would be nice to share recipies within your guild for instance, but even though owning it is required, this can be circumvented by putting it in your guild bank I guess

is it consumed upon usage
VS
can it be reused (possibly a finite amount of times)?

Raith
06-05-2015, 06:17 AM
In the MMO's I have played, the recipes are consumed on use. I'm betting it will be the same for Hex but it will be interesting to see if it's locked to characters or the account. However, this only really matters if items created are bound on pickup (locked to the character at the time the item is created). If the created item is not locked to the character then you just need 1 friend or guild mate to send the mats to and create the item for you. Of course, super rare recipes can be used to profit with on the AH since not everyone will know someone with the recipe.

Svenn
06-05-2015, 07:27 AM
I was wondering the exact same thing. I don't have any experience in MMO's, so I don't know how recipies generally tend to work;

do you need to own the recipe in your inventory
VS
is it sufficient to know which consumables to combine in which specific order?

would be nice to share recipies within your guild for instance, but even though owning it is required, this can be circumvented by putting it in your guild bank I guess

is it consumed upon usage
VS
can it be reused (possibly a finite amount of times)?
It depends on the MMO. In almost all games you need to own/consume the recipe. In some games, that adds it permanently to your recipe list and in others it consumes the recipe.

I'm really hoping the recipes are permanent if they exist. One time use recipes are basically just a single loot drop that requires extra work to be able to use.

My problem with the crafting in this is that this type of game doesn't lend itself well to the type of crafting systems I like (crafting one of a kind items using materials with random properties using generic recipes, a la SWG). I expect it to be closer to a WoW style crafting where it's more just a side thing for people to do to supplement your normal loot (which is fine, like I said, this type of game doesn't lend itself well to advanced crafting systems). I just hope they don't make it too annoying. Consumable recipes are definitely one of those annoying things, especially for collectors.

Tazelbain
06-05-2015, 07:46 AM
Given that they went so aggressive on the gold sinks, I expect them to be just as aggressive on the item and cards sinks. Fountain to sink ratios are how things have value in an MMO and Hex clearly wants the PVE rewards to have value. Crafting is that sink mechanism.

LNQ
06-05-2015, 07:57 AM
Crafting as a card / equipment / gold sink would need recipes to not be one time use only. Or then a single craftable item would have to be super expensive or recipes need to drop very often, neither of which being very exciting ideas.

Therefore i believe crafting will work like in WoW.