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WolfCrypt
06-07-2015, 09:11 AM
So what does this guy even do? You play him he summons the best troop in your deck to field and gives it 1def and then a random card in your hand gets plus one attack?

Thrawn
06-07-2015, 09:14 AM
The assumption is that when he enters play you gain life equal to the highest defense of the troops you have in play and you draw cards equal to the highest attack of the troops you have in play.

Bombs
06-07-2015, 09:16 AM
I think Thrawn's got it right. We can confirm it Soon™.

funktion
06-07-2015, 09:55 AM
thrawn is correct. Part of me spoiling the card was also getting the full run down on that.

WolfCrypt
06-07-2015, 11:39 AM
It was just so confusing I couldn't understand it.

Hellforge
06-07-2015, 04:07 PM
Only thing I needed confirming was whether or not 'your band' was in play or in hand.

This really is a game for people who like card games. So much fun on the table :D

kaiizza
06-07-2015, 04:13 PM
So what does this guy even do? You play him he summons the best troop in your deck to field and gives it 1def and then a random card in your hand gets plus one attack?

How did you come to that conclusion? Just asking cause it is wildly different from what the card does and nothing suggests it in the text of the card. Really interested in your response.

WolfCrypt
06-07-2015, 06:03 PM
'When Balthasur arrives on the field, He'll find the greatest troops amongst your band. A gift of health one troop's defense will yield, One troops attack will likewise fill your hand.' To me the He'll find your greatest troops. Says to me he'll summon cards to field and boost the card with highest defense and then randomly add a +1atk to a random troop in your hand. I find my interpretation to be very clear cut from the poem.

Xavon
06-07-2015, 06:16 PM
Not really, as your interruption ignores the possessive of attack and defense, and only accounts for 'gift of health' or 'fill your hand' if you seriously stretch 'health' to be the same as defense (when they are not and both words are used), and 'fill' to be 'increase standard value' (and again ignore the possessive).

wolzarg
06-07-2015, 10:20 PM
Lets not be argumentative the card isn't clear. Lots of people don't even understand what clear cards do. He misunderstood. You corrected with your best guess.

Erukk
06-07-2015, 10:31 PM
'When Balthasur arrives on the field,
(When Balthasar enters play)
He'll find the greatest troops amongst your band.
(The greatest as of yet undefined value amongst troops you control)
A gift of health one troop's defense will yield,
(Now defined, a gift(gain) of health(hp/life) equal to the greatest defense amongst the troops you control)
One troops attack will likewise fill your hand.'
((Fill your hand=)Draw equal to the greatest attack power amongst troops you control)

Unless it specifies otherwise, always assume that a card means only thing you control that are out on the field at the moment. Even on cards with funny rule text, they would have to be very specific when they are suggesting things not out in play.

Svenn
06-08-2015, 07:27 AM
Lets not be argumentative the card isn't clear. Lots of people don't even understand what clear cards do. He misunderstood. You corrected with your best guess.

It's really clear. Erukk posted a good description. I don't get how people can't figure this one out. It's like people see something that's not a perfect template and immediately go "Whelp, no one could possibly figure this out, I give up".

I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of text like this, but it's not hard to figure out.

WolfCrypt
06-08-2015, 07:29 AM
I find the card incredibly open to interpretation

Xenavire
06-08-2015, 07:34 AM
I find the card incredibly open to interpretation

Even if it was open to interpretation, we have clarification from the person who was given the spoiler - we know exactly how it works. Let's not argue over what-if's.

wolzarg
06-08-2015, 11:22 AM
It's really clear. Erukk posted a good description. I don't get how people can't figure this one out. It's like people see something that's not a perfect template and immediately go "Whelp, no one could possibly figure this out, I give up".

I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of text like this, but it's not hard to figure out.
I happen to like the card and how its worded differently so i don't appreciate the hyperbole. My only point is the card isn't clear, and it isn't. Band is definitely not clearly definable as creatures on your field. Its easy to assume because it would make sense in the context of the color and the cost of the card but its most definitely not obvious to everyone.

Aradon
06-08-2015, 11:38 AM
Also, the last line could be interpreted as "The attack value of one of your troops will become the attack value of each troop in your hand," since it's saying the attack will fill your hand. It really isn't clear. Yes, we can look it up, or just find out when you play it, but what are you going to do when drafting it and this is the first time you've seen the card, or your opponent plays it and this is the first time you've seen it? Do you pick it, or counter it, or kill one of their other troops?

I've always been in favor of knowing what a card will do just by looking at it.

poizonous
06-08-2015, 11:47 AM
As I said previously, I like out of template wording, I just think Balthasur went off the deep end

Aradon
06-08-2015, 11:50 AM
I can agree with that. I didn't really have any problems with Gortezuma, which only mildly deviated from typical template. There are just too many ways you could misread Balthasur for my liking.

Lion_Slicer
06-08-2015, 04:59 PM
Regardless of how "omg obvious lol" this card may be to some people, this sets a bad precedent. One has to remember and consider the new player when it's not beta anymore. The fact that it has caused this much discussion here and on reddit with valid points about interpretation should highlight an issue (or a problem) regardless of how easy you personally may find the card understandable. Also, one should not have to go to a forum and find a thread/post in order to understand a card. Put this kind of thing in flavor text.

Thoom
06-08-2015, 05:07 PM
Regardless of how "omg obvious lol" this card may be to some people, this sets a bad precedent. One has to remember and consider the new player when it's not beta anymore. The fact that it has caused this much discussion here and on reddit with valid points about interpretation should highlight an issue (or a problem) regardless of how easy you personally may find the card understandable. Also, one should not have to go to a forum and find a thread/post in order to understand a card. Put this kind of thing in flavor text.

1) It's one card per set. It's not the end of the world.

2) There's an easy way to find out what it does -- play the card.

Aradon
06-08-2015, 05:36 PM
2) There's an easy way to find out what it does -- play the card.

This is a terrible argument. What if you're in a tournament, and your opponent casts this? Do you counter it? Do you need to burn their largest troop, or is it too late?
You find out quickly and easily, but something like this should be immediately clear.

Gwaer
06-08-2015, 05:43 PM
Work it out? Use your best guess? Don't join a tournament without researching to make sure you know all the cards you might see. That's kind of a cost of joining a tournament. I've seen even normally templated cards misunderstood every day. To me this is just as clear as those cards.

WolfCrypt
06-08-2015, 05:46 PM
I don't see how without War's explanation that anyone can get much outa that card. I think its a nice poem and a nice idea to have a card be a poem but I find it to be very open to interptation .

IronPheasant
06-08-2015, 05:59 PM
Disagree. The poem for the card you interpreted it to be in OP would go like this:

When Balthasur arrives on the field,
He'll find the greatest troops awaiting within the dark uncertain future,
He'll gimp its defensive might to one,
But in return increase by its might,
The attack power across your hand

Which doesn't rhyme at all but meets the functional spec you've designated.

Zophie
06-08-2015, 06:33 PM
I approve of the creative use of poetic mechanics found on the card in question.

Svenn
06-08-2015, 08:02 PM
I don't see how without War's explanation that anyone can get much outa that card. I think its a nice poem and a nice idea to have a card be a poem but I find it to be very open to interptation .

I got it just reading it the first time. It was pretty clear.

Thoom
06-08-2015, 08:16 PM
Yeah, I don't see how anyone whose first language is English could misunderstand what it does. Admittedly that does put non-native speakers at a very slight disadvantage, which is unfortunate, but I think the flavor is worth it as long as they keep this sort of thing as a once-per-set deal.


This is a terrible argument. What if you're in a tournament, and your opponent casts this? Do you counter it? Do you need to burn their largest troop, or is it too late?

You could ask your opponent, and if they're not a horrible person (and the chat interface is updated so that you have a reasonable expectation that your opponent will know they have a message) they would tell you.

Patrigan
06-09-2015, 12:22 AM
Seriously, the only players who might "suffer" from this are new players and idiots who don't research their cards before entering an actual tournament. New players will like the fun part, they're not yet interested in knowing everything exactly, they're still learning the basics. So please, for the love of Titania, stop speaking in the name of new players.

As for figuring it out, there's a really great Arena where you can try crazy decks as much as you like, with minimal repercussions. I'm also sure CZE will, in due time, foresee an option to "hide" the off-template texts. It's exactly the same as riot hiding the critters on summoner's rift because some pro-players find it distracting. To the rest of the world it's ridiculous but Riot (and CZE) is interested in pleasing everyone.

So, for now hakuna matata and be patient, like everyone is with new features. Eerything will eventually be good for all of you.

Gwaer
06-09-2015, 12:53 AM
Sorry but if this game is ever good for everyone I'm out of here. I'll have none of that.

Aradon
06-09-2015, 04:11 AM
In other words, if you draft without looking up every card in the set, you're an idiot? Because that's what I'm hearing, and I'm pretty sure CZE's mentioned before how much they like their surprises and all.

Thrawn
06-09-2015, 05:44 AM
Sorry but if this game is ever good for everyone I'm out of here. I'll have none of that.

So tired of seeing this message - "Sorry Gwaer is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her."

Certainly wouldn't expect a Hex admin to have that kind of attitude.

Malakili
06-09-2015, 05:59 AM
It's really clear. Erukk posted a good description. I don't get how people can't figure this one out. It's like people see something that's not a perfect template and immediately go "Whelp, no one could possibly figure this out, I give up".

I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of text like this, but it's not hard to figure out.

It's hard to figure out if English is not your first language, at the very least. Most of us who are against this kind of wording actually WERE able to figure out what the card does. But we should never, EVER, have to wonder if we got it right. Even as much as a mouse over that displays the properly templated card text would be acceptable.

Thoom
06-09-2015, 06:08 AM
Even as much as a mouse over that displays the properly templated card text would be acceptable.

I'm certainly not against that. I don't think it's necessary, but I wouldn't object either.

ziggarius
06-09-2015, 06:18 AM
It's hard to figure out if English is not your first language, at the very least. Most of us who are against this kind of wording actually WERE able to figure out what the card does. But we should never, EVER, have to wonder if we got it right. Even as much as a mouse over that displays the properly templated card text would be acceptable.

I understood it and fully support cards like this. Can set 4 be exclusively like this? :D

Kami
06-09-2015, 06:41 AM
So tired of seeing this message - "Sorry Gwaer is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her."

Certainly wouldn't expect a Hex admin to have that kind of attitude.

Except he's not a moderator nor admin, to clarify.

Beyond that, please keep this thread civil.

Patrigan
06-09-2015, 09:42 AM
Sorry but if this game is ever good for everyone I'm out of here. I'll have none of that.

But in this case, they can please everyone, without detracting from other player's their fun. I see nothing wrong with that. Like I said, it's very similar to the option Riot Games provided where pro-players can disable the critters. It's just an option, it didn't affect anyone else.

And Aradon, that's not what I said, if you want to play serious games for winning, without the least amount of preparation, then, yes, you are an idiot. Reading all cards once to make sure you understand them is required if you want to have a good shot at winning. If you refuse to do that, you can't expect to win. That is the simple truth of it. If I ever come across a player that tries to play to win, but without any idea how Balthasur works, I will not be able to contain my laughter. And as previously shown, for new players this doesn't matter.

So yes, basically this thread is a non-issue. CZE will eventually have a solution in place for the few persons that are actually "affected" by this.

Gwaer
06-09-2015, 12:47 PM
Sorry, I guess I forgot that thrawn exists. That thing about leaving if the game was good for everyone was obviously a joke. =P it doesn't make any sense. I like absurdist humor and that was just too ripe of an opportunity to pass up. =)

Patrigan
06-09-2015, 12:49 PM
Sorry, I guess I forgot that thrawn exists. That thing about leaving if the game was good for everyone was obviously a joke. =P it doesn't make any sense. I like absurdist humor and that was just too ripe of an opportunity to pass up. =)

Poe's Law, look it up :p

hex_colin
06-09-2015, 12:49 PM
Sorry, I guess I forgot that thrawn exists. That thing about leaving if the game was good for everyone was obviously a joke. =P it doesn't make any sense. I like absurdist humor and that was just too ripe of an opportunity to pass up. =)

Dammit, I wanted your stuff! ;)

Xenavire
06-09-2015, 12:53 PM
Dammit, I wanted your stuff! ;)

(Said by possibly the only person ever that doesn't need any of it.)

Still, made me laugh :D

Gwaer
06-09-2015, 12:54 PM
Dammit, I wanted your stuff! ;)

Funny story, I updated my will and included a copy of a sheet of paper with all of my unredeemed codes, prices I expect they could go for and contact information to get in touch with you.


And I'm suddenly realizing that I should include another set of higher totals if my death is under 'questionable circumstances'.

Xenavire
06-09-2015, 12:56 PM
Funny story, I updated my will and included a copy of a sheet of paper with all of my unredeemed codes, prices I expect they could go for and contact information to get in touch with you.


And I'm suddenly realizing that I should include another set of higher totals if my death is under 'questionable circumstances'.

I'd comment with a joke here, but I fear that anything I say would be misconstrued. Including this. Damn, I'm obviously being framed! Arrrrgh!

Zophie
06-09-2015, 12:59 PM
Sorry, I guess I forgot that thrawn exists. That thing about leaving if the game was good for everyone was obviously a joke. =P it doesn't make any sense. I like absurdist humor and that was just too ripe of an opportunity to pass up. =)

I totally got it, but why the hell do I need a fridge if I can already see in the dark?

Gwaer
06-09-2015, 03:40 PM
I totally got it, but why the hell do I need a fridge if I can already see in the dark?

That's the first sensible thing anyone has said all day.

BossHoss
06-09-2015, 06:04 PM
I have this stuck in my head now....


http://youtu.be/oGUMsxVt4YU

Some hope translation's on the double back,
Because they don't understand the front
I think it is brilliant breaking template for just one,
others just argue that it's not, not fun


Balthasur
Balthasur, Balthasur

WolfCrypt
06-09-2015, 06:08 PM
I'm not saying I hate it I just don't get it.

Zophie
06-09-2015, 09:35 PM
Some hope translation's on the double back,
Because they don't understand the front
I think it is brilliant breaking template for just one,
others just argue that it's not, not fun


Balthasur
Balthasur, Balthasur

I see what you did there, and I like it.

also thanks for getting this stuck in my head too now :p