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bootlace
06-16-2015, 05:38 AM
So Elders Scrolls announced a new F2P game that seems similar to Hearthstone.

Spellweaver just went to open beta, again heavy focus on F2P.

MTG is coming out with their F2P game next month.

Bunch of other projects on the horizon including some Stars Wars card game.

Obviously these games are shallow in comparison to Hex, but they're setting a dangerous precedent and expectation for the genre that the game needs to be totally F2P. Luckily (or strategically to give credit to the HXE team) Hex is getting a strong F2P component as well so it's not exactly without ammunition on that front.

What do you think of the increasing competition in the genre and the heavy focus on F2P? Good or bad for Hex, or not really a concern?

Hoping we get some strong patches in the next few months to establish Hex as the leader of the dCG genre and not the inescapable "Hex copied ___" from some random game that was able to execute the idea faster.

Undomiel
06-16-2015, 05:50 AM
Already some three or so years ago, I read some article analyzing the prospective market potentials for F2P and P2P MMOs. The conclusion already then was that F2P has already won and is only increasing further.

So I am not really expecting to see my good old subscription based or even one-off payment games much in the future. It is all going to to be free to play and pay for more, forever and ever ever ever... <_<

Axle
06-16-2015, 05:55 AM
Spellweavers - Dead on arrival. Despite new game hype, already had sub 100 players online.

Elder Scrolls card game - Obviously going to be a gimmick.

MTG F2P game - won't have full card pool, will still be restricting in some way. It's just another planeswalker game except they dropped the initial payment for packs with no trading.

We'll be fine.

plaguedealer
06-16-2015, 05:56 AM
If hex brings a deep pve experience with leveling and multiple dungeons, the competition does not stand a chance. I think the pve content really needs to start taking priortiy, it should after set 3 hits.

Spellweaver is an example of a game that is actually better then hearthstone, kind of sad so few people play it.

Salverus
06-16-2015, 06:04 AM
I think for now these card games can be an 'ok' alternative until HEX gets some more updates to kill the time. But once we finally have dungeons and such, they will be no competition. In fact, they might even attract more casual people into the tcg genre.

israel.kendall
06-16-2015, 06:30 AM
Spellweaver markets itself as a TCG but has no plans to implement trading. This is pretty dishonest to me. I haven't looked at the others really.

Qarnij
06-16-2015, 06:45 AM
I only see HEX stealing players from those other games. Not the other way around.

ossuary
06-16-2015, 07:28 AM
It's extremely unlikely that Hex will permanently lose any players to any of these games. On the other hand, it's entirely likely that people who dip their toes in the water of CCGs/TCGs as a result of any of those titles will eventually find their way to Hex, and realize how shallow and meaningless all those other CCGs really were.

This genre getting more attention can only be a good thing for Hex.

BlackRoger
06-16-2015, 07:28 AM
Well, the mtg origins game could be competition, but I doubt it since wizards wont want it to be good enough to compete with MTGO.

Spellweaver is so unnecesarily complicated... And from my expirience poorly balanced for now.
It will need much work and better turtorials before its worth my time.

Kami
06-16-2015, 07:30 AM
Wasn't there a rumour that WotC is bringing back Shandalar? If so, that would be HEX's biggest competitor.

Tazelbain
06-16-2015, 07:41 AM
I always thought the biggest enemy to Hex was time. CZE have a ton of talent and drive, but will they translate that into a functional game in a timely fashion? Back on late 2013, early 2014 I was really furious at the state of Hex. It felt like some serious wheel spinning. They lost a lot of time to problems with rewriting the client and back-end communications. And I still think think it's an open question today. WotC and Blizzard aren't going to stand idlely by and let Hex take over. They have the resource to move quick. And there is always a chance that a small agile indie come in steal their milkshake. Happens all the time in tech. Obviously Cory has chosen quality over time. One can only hope this a good move, but there is a reason very few companies choose that.

israel.kendall
06-16-2015, 07:53 AM
Well, the mtg origins game could be competition, but I doubt it since wizards wont want it to be good enough to compete with MTGO.



This would depend on WotC's ability to produce a digital product that isn't a complete terd. And I honestly don't know if they can accomplish that. But if somehow they could pull it off, I think it will either cannibalize their MTGO player base or alienate them, and bite them in the ass. Origins is the "New Coke" of WotC. But maybe I'm too old and no one else remembers New Coke...

nicosharp
06-16-2015, 07:56 AM
I always thought the biggest enemy to Hex was time. CZE have a ton of talent and drive, but will they translate that into a game into functional game in a timely fashion? Back on late 2013, early 2014 I was really furious at the state of Hex. It felt like some serious wheel spinning. They lost a lot time problem the rewriting the client and back-end communications. And I still think think its an open question today. WotC and Blizzard aren't going to stand idlely by and let Hex take over. They have the resource to move quick. And there is always a chance that a small agile indie come in steal their milkshake. Happens all the time in tech. Obviously Cory has chosen quality over time. One can only hope this a good move, but there is a reason very few companies choose that.
I agree with the above.
The biggest ah-ha of the entire HEX KS was that there is significant interest in this type of game.
Fast forward two-years.
We've given many Triple A developers time to sniff test what gamers want in a card game.
Luckily, I have more faith in Ben/etc. to design something immensely fun to play and well balanced more so than triple A developers can with cards.
It's just really rough that the programming expertise and large teams will push out quality work quickly, and before you know it, other companies are mimicking either the success HEX has, or the success HEX should have..

Mahes
06-16-2015, 08:06 AM
So the irony will be when The company controlling Hex has to sue other companies for copying their product?

Ertzi
06-16-2015, 08:11 AM
I did some quick research on all the games mentioned in the OP. Spellweaver was the only one that looked mildly interesting, mostly because of the unusual speed mechanic. The polish is sorely lacking at this time though. Elder scrolls CCG looks to be dead on arrival, and I know Wizards will not release a F2P Magic, ever. They will always be diluted versions, so HEX is completely safe from these games I feel. ...for the time being.

I agree that the biggest threat for HEX now is time. We need a robust PVE experience soon with dungeons and all the bells and whistles. We need to establish ourselves as the clear market leader for this type of game before someone else manages to do that and HEX will fall behind. HEX can become the default game for players who want a more engaging card game experience, just like Hearthstone managed to do with casual CCGs. We can still claim the entire genre, but there needs to be some PVE advancements soon. I would hate for some inferior product to establish a more commanding marketing position just because they got there first.

bootlace
06-16-2015, 08:26 AM
Well there's two big advantages as I see it from Hex's point of view:

1) It's a TCG where players' collections have real world value. All these other games are chasing the easy CCG F2P money. Players will hopefully see the huge distinction here and invest their time and money where its actually worth something.

2) These other games are very shallow and lack the framework to keep players' interest for too long. Even Hearthstone with all of its success and developer firepower is struggling to keep their game interesting, now resorting to reskinning their champions (heroes) and some weird deck-building mode.

Hex has supposedly hired the best in the industry to build complex systems and AI that they've been working on years to develop. I don't think even triple AAA studios could easily come and copy some of the frameworks they've been working on.


Elder scrolls CCG looks to be dead on arrival

We don't know anything about this game yet except popular MTG pros like LSV are on the dev team. There's literally one trailer of the game, some vague Fall release date and nothing else.

Zophie
06-16-2015, 08:38 AM
So Elders Scrolls announced a new F2P game that seems similar to Hearthstone.

Just wondering how you came to this conclusion? They've literally only told us the name of the game, as far as I've seen there are zero details about what the cards or gameplay will be like, or anything at all except for a name. The only thing I could maybe consider similar thus far would be that both games trailers happen to use animatics to show off various pieces of artwork...

I just think it's interesting because I've read lots of comments on blogs dismissing this game as a Hearthstone clone too, when they literally know nothing about it. Maybe they're right, but I just know this genre is wide enough that I don't think it's safe to assume which way they'll go until they actually give us some details. I do think it's a little lame for them to announce a new game title with no details and then expect us to get hyped about it simply based on the name alone, but I will reserve judgement until I get more info.

Thrawn
06-16-2015, 08:43 AM
Hex has supposedly hired the best in the industry to build complex systems and AI that they've been working on years to develop. I don't think even triple AAA studios could easily come and copy some of the frameworks they've been working on.


We've seen very little of this complex AI system. Currently someone just has to release something better than the Arena challenges and they can say they have a better system and superior PvE content.

Ertzi
06-16-2015, 08:49 AM
We don't know anything about this game yet except popular MTG pros like LSV are on the dev team. There's literally one trailer of the game, some vague Fall release date and nothing else.

Fair enough. I just did some quick googling, and the stuff I found looked really cheap and crappy. I just had a feeling instantly that this will not go anywhere. I might be completely wrong. I was very surprised to hear LSV is on board, which gives the game more legitimacy immediately in my eyes. I would not mind a good TCG in the Elder Scrolls universe, as I love Nirn as a setting (or Tamriel, if you prefer that). I think they will go the cheap route with this one, however. We shall see.

Shadowflame
06-16-2015, 08:50 AM
Fair enough. I just did some quick googling, and the stuff I found looked really cheap and crappy. I just had a feeling instantly that this will not go anywhere. I might be completely wrong. I was very surprised to hear LSV is on board, which gives the game more legitimacy immediately in my eyes. I would not mind a good TCG in the Elder Scrolls universe, as I love Nirn as a setting (or Tamriel, if you prefer that). I think they will go the cheap route with this one, however. We shall see.

Are you sure you weren't looking at Scrolls footage by accident? ;)

Ertzi
06-16-2015, 08:52 AM
Are you sure you weren't looking at Scrolls footage by accident? ;)

Honestly, I have no idea anymore :D I'm pretty tired after a hellish trip to Ikea (are there any other kind?) I better shut up now, because I clearly don't know what the hell I am talking about.

Svenn
06-16-2015, 08:56 AM
It's extremely unlikely that Hex will permanently lose any players to any of these games. On the other hand, it's entirely likely that people who dip their toes in the water of CCGs/TCGs as a result of any of those titles will eventually find their way to Hex, and realize how shallow and meaningless all those other CCGs really were.

This genre getting more attention can only be a good thing for Hex.
It's very naive to think that Hex is simply never going to lose players to another game, even less complex ones. Not everyone is looking for deep and complex games. In fact, the majority of players just want something simple and easy to play. This is why Blizzard is so popular, they cater to the people that want a simpler experience.

Path of Exile is a thousand times more complex and interesting than Diablo 3, but people still flock to Diablo 3 over Path of Exile because of the simplicity. Hex will experience the same thing. We'll lose people to Hearthstone, to Spellweavers, to whatever other card game. It's going to happen.

That being said, we will also get a lot of players from other games who ARE looking for something more complex and interesting. A boom in digital TCGs/CCGs is both good and bad for Hex. It means more competition, and more choices for consumers means people will be spread out across a lot of games rather than playing the few that are available. At the same time it means a larger potential customer base.

What will matter is how well Hex can add the features that players are looking for and how well they can bring out new content to keep people interested.


1) It's a TCG where players' collections have real world value. All these other games are chasing the easy CCG F2P money. Players will hopefully see the huge distinction here and invest their time and money where its actually worth something.
There are a LOT of players who won't see this as an advantage, though. With f2p games you have about 1-5% of your players spending money, generally... the other 95% aren't going to look at Hex and go "I should go there!" Unless there is a good enough f2p experience with zero money spent. That's a lot harder to do in a game with real world value.

RCDv57
06-16-2015, 08:58 AM
Wasn't there a rumour that WotC is bringing back Shandalar? If so, that would be HEX's biggest competitor.

If that is true, and the game is not garbage, then I would buy it.
But lets be honest, it's gonna be garbage.

bootlace
06-16-2015, 09:33 AM
Shadowflame: Hah probably, now we know why Bethesda was suing Mojang for that Scrolls name.

Zophie: Yea was totally a guess it would be similar to HS based on it being a CCG. Hope they bring something new to the table.

Thrawn: I think we shouldn't underestimate all the investments and time Hex has spent just because their efforts has not come to full fruition yet. This new big tournament system for example has been in the works a long time and hopefully we'll get to enjoy it in the very near future.

Svenn: I don't know...even if the F2P crowd don't care about building a collection that has value, they'll surely appreciate making some real money playing a game.

Showsni
06-16-2015, 09:44 AM
Wasn't there a rumour that WotC is bringing back Shandalar? If so, that would be HEX's biggest competitor.

Are Wizards bringing it back, or are they letting another company do it? Shandalar was a Micropose game, after all, not a WotC one.

Interesting that Hasbro bought out both Micropose and WotC fairly soon after Shandalar was released... I guess that means Hasbro might own the rights to the original Shandalar game still?

Svenn
06-16-2015, 10:10 AM
Svenn: I don't know...even if the F2P crowd don't care about building a collection that has value, they'll surely appreciate making some real money playing a game.
My point may not have come across well. Some players will enjoy making money playing a game. My point was that everyone is different and is looking for different things in games. Some might like making money, others won't care. Some might like the complexity, others will be turned off by it. Hex might be the "better" game, but that doesn't guarantee that it's what everyone wants.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Hex and what they are doing (quite the opposite) but that we must accept that it will not be for every person (even people really into CCGs/TCGs, physical or digital). Some people will leave Hex for these other games, it's inevitable. The hope is that more people will come to Hex from the other games than people that leave to go to them. I think there's a good chance of that, but the more competition there is the harder it gets to keep players.

Thrawn
06-16-2015, 10:12 AM
Thrawn: I think we shouldn't underestimate all the investments and time Hex has spent just because their efforts has not come to full fruition yet. This new big tournament system for example has been in the works a long time and hopefully we'll get to enjoy it in the very near future.

When it comes to attracting new players, what is in a game and working is much more important than what might show up in the future.

katkillad
06-16-2015, 10:24 AM
I agree time is the biggest enemy here. I am actively looking for other games/tcg's to play due to the slow release of sets with Hex. Spellweaver was an ok distraction for a day or so, but nothing I would ever get serious about. I'm going to try the Elder Scrolls and Star Wars CCG's whenever they are released. I'm not expecting much from them either.

The point is something could come along though and once I move on from something I don't usually go back.

WolfCrypt
06-16-2015, 10:28 AM
I just think it's interesting because I've read lots of comments on blogs dismissing this game as a Hearthstone clone too, when they literally know nothing about it. Maybe they're right.

I don't see how anyone could say that I mean Hearthstone is "Play a bunch of ovals" there not that much stratagy sure they both have a lot of RNG problems but Hex is more complex like Yugioh or Magic or Netrunner anyone who thinks Hex and HS are similair cuz their online card games is a moron.

plaguedealer
06-16-2015, 10:32 AM
Calling people morons doesn't help your argument and only causes people to dislike hex. There are many people who will always argue the hex and hearthstone are similar. They have champ powers, pve, card leveling, etc. Obviously there are many differences and the similarities are not identical comparisons.

Hex needs asynch and a ladder system so there can be more comparissons.

What scares me a little is the press releases I see talk about hearthstone competitors, no mention about hex.

Zophie
06-16-2015, 10:37 AM
I don't see how anyone could say that I mean Hearthstone is "Play a bunch of ovals" there not that much stratagy sure they both have a lot of RNG problems but Hex is more complex like Yugioh or Magic or Netrunner anyone who thinks Hex and HS are similair cuz their online card games is a moron.

Uh, you took that way out of context, and edited in a period at the end of that instead of a comma. I wasn't talking about Hex at all, we're talking about Elder Scrolls Legends. Please don't do that.

My entire comment you quoted from was related to the fact that people are comparing Elder Scrolls Legends to Hearthstone when there is literally no information available about Elder Scrolls Legends and it's interesting that people are making this assumption without any details available.

WolfCrypt
06-16-2015, 10:40 AM
I wasn't exactly talking bout you but I felt that was a good point to make that there isn't much to 'match up' with Hex towards HS frankly I think HS is stupid and got bored of it fairly quickly.

Erukk
06-16-2015, 10:51 AM
If it's not Skyrim, I'm not trusting anything with the words "Elder Scrolls" in it's title for awhile. That franchise burned me with ESO.

Anything Wizards is going to put out is a trap, since they're never going to handicap their cash cow. They're games might be fun, but they'll always be limited, and their soul purpose in their creation is going to try and covert people to the real MTG or MTGO.

Spellweaver I haven't heard much on, so I can't really say much.

Star Wars game might be just a tie in to the upcoming movie. Whether or no it is actually good, time will only tell.

WolfCrypt
06-16-2015, 10:55 AM
Frankly only card game I played online was HS and Infinity Wars but I stop playing both IW ticked me off beyond annoyance with "Well we made this faction specifically to be destroyed and mechanics wise we never intended to do much with them so its a natural fit we'll drop them first and possibly make more cards in future." That just made me quite right there... And HS just meh...

Mejis
06-16-2015, 04:08 PM
The only thing that worries me for hex is some of the uninformed, outside perception I have noticed on other forums. Whenever I have mentioned hex outside of these forums it has generally been shot down, people saying it's a ripoff, a scam, mtg clone, expensive, not f2p etc etc. I.e. all very sad and disheartening, but some of that is a sign of what the f2p HS market has created.
I do hope hex is bringing in lots of new players and retaining a lot.

I'm curious as to what TES Legends is going to be. So far there seems to be zero info, other than the mention of mtg pros being involved in development.

I'm very curious to see how much wotc can botch their new permanent Duels game next month.

Spellweaver is interesting. It has some nice ideas, but as said above it may be unnecessarily overly complicated. The UI needs a huge amount of polish, but now it's in open beta maybe that'll happen.

Hex is still miles and miles ahead of the competition, but I do feel there needs to be a pick up of pace. PvE and proper solid AI are my biggest concerns, alongside timely set delivery of course. I'm not knocking the devs in any way, I love you guys, but time is definitely of the essence in this era of card game frenzy.

EDIT: Duelyst is another hybrid CCG making an appearance too. Looks sorta like HS combined with Scrolls.

EDIT2: grammar/typos

Thrawn
06-16-2015, 05:13 PM
The only thing that worries me for hex is some of the uninformed, outside perception I have noticed on other forums. Whenever I have mentioned hex outside of these forums it has generally been shot down, people saying it's a ripoff, a scam, mtg clone, expensive, not f2p etc etc. I.e. all very sad and disheartening, but some of that is a sign of what the f2p HS market has created.

I ran into someone at work recently who said Hex was "That game that got shut down by Wizards of the Coast".

poizonous
06-16-2015, 05:29 PM
I ran into someone at work recently who said Hex was "That game that got shut down by Wizards of the Coast".

I hope you corrected him lol. But as for the OP, I dont see a game in the foreseeable future that will compete with Hex, as others have said, their only competition is themselves with time

Thrawn
06-16-2015, 05:34 PM
I hope you corrected him lol. But as for the OP, I dont see a game in the foreseeable future that will compete with Hex, as others have said, their only competition is themselves with time

I did, but most of the discussion after was just a bunch of questions about what is or isn't in the game yet with the answers mostly being "not yet" and him deciding it's not worth checking out still. :p

WolfCrypt
06-16-2015, 05:36 PM
I'm hopeful that PVE be this year once dungeons are out I think there'll be enough content to keep people amused for next update.

magic_gazz
06-16-2015, 06:47 PM
When I saw LSV was involved with a game my first thought was "oh I should check that out, if a MTG pro is behind it then its probably good".

Then I remembered last time I did that. Think I will not bother this time.



The more games that enter the market the better as they each attract a slightly different crowd. Eventually most of them will fail (based on the history of TCGS) and people will need a different game to go to.

As long as Hex is not one to fail, we will benefit in the end.

Mejis
06-16-2015, 06:52 PM
Then I remembered last time I did that. Think I will not bother this time.



Solforge?

Thrawn
06-16-2015, 07:08 PM
Solforge?

Could be Ascension as well, although not a TCG.

magic_gazz
06-16-2015, 07:25 PM
Solforge?

Indeed.

The game that still calls its self a TCG, even though there has never been trading and it has pretty much been scrapped as an idea.

They have a few whales keeping the game alive though, so I guess they are happy with that. Doesn't even work on a lot of tablets and they don't seem to care.

Mejis
06-16-2015, 07:39 PM
Indeed.

The game that still calls its self a TCG, even though there has never been trading and it has pretty much been scrapped as an idea.

They have a few whales keeping the game alive though, so I guess they are happy with that. Doesn't even work on a lot of tablets and they don't seem to care.

The issue I have with solforge, and many other ccgs, is the UI. Solforge's is especially bad, especially on PC. It just looks so ... Bad. Their deck builder is a joke.

wolzarg
06-16-2015, 07:49 PM
I want to like solforge but for one reason or another i just can't.

Gattou
06-17-2015, 02:56 AM
IMO Hex have nothing to worry about so far.
This game is amasing, it's a playable F2P, you can acquire cards very fast and you can acquire premium money.
I tried many F2P digital card games like DualOfChampion, Heartstone, solforge and all i can see is always the same "Digital, Online, nice animations" but you cannot trade with the community.
All the F2P community will be much more interessed by Hex than any other fake F2P game with no AH.
The more we have player/F2P player the more popular the game will be.
The more popular the game is -> Esport -> Events -> Prices
And so on

PS: sorry for my bad english

Ferezal
06-17-2015, 07:02 AM
Hey people, please dont worry i was reading about the new f2p mtg game and its economy sistem is truly bad: There is no market and no way to have the card u need, you have to buy the boosters (i read in mtg salvation 6 cards per booster, plus foils). When u have the 4 copies of a card that card stop from appearing plus the 4 copies of that card in foil (8 cards with the same name ;), completely useless). At least here u can buy something with gold in the market and in hearthstone u can make the card.
Just relax, hex will be fine

strawwmann
06-17-2015, 07:29 AM
Just relax, hex will be fine

"VHS vs Betamax" - the thought keeps popping up in my mind & leaves me with this strange uncomfortable feeling... although I can't really remember why, something in the dim distant past........

the_artic_one
06-17-2015, 08:25 AM
Nova Blitz is another one in beta. I haven't checked it out but it supposedly has that "smart shuffling" people are always talking about.

Warrender
06-17-2015, 08:37 AM
Solforge?

Urgh...don't remind me I actually sunk money into that game. Have they gotten around to a full-screen mode for the PC client yet?

WolfCrypt
06-17-2015, 09:53 AM
I tried Nova Blitz its incredibly stupid and not what I think when I hear "First ever real time card game where both players play at once"

superdax
06-17-2015, 11:53 AM
Spellweaver is very nice...but NOT a TCG.. but more a CCG...

the_artic_one
06-17-2015, 12:32 PM
I tried Nova Blitz its incredibly stupid and not what I think when I hear "First ever real time card game where both players play at once"
Actually my first thought when I heard that was "that sounds like a mess, I wonder how they worked it out". I should probably check it out myself some time.

Aradon
06-17-2015, 12:36 PM
Actually my first thought when I heard that was "that sounds like a mess, I wonder how they worked it out". I should probably check it out myself some time.

My imagination has it with each card having a time delay before coming into effect or taking effect, possibly with resources speeding up or slowing down the timers. Sources of damage would have to be shown as damage over time. It probably resembles something closer to an RTS featuring cards rather than production buildings.

Gwaer
06-17-2015, 12:40 PM
People that don't like random should really go try prismata. It wasn't for me, but it really seemed like it was an excellent implementation of limiting per player variance. While still keeping some globally random elements.

It's kind of like a chess-starcraft hybrid had a baby with a deck of playing cards.

Svenn
06-17-2015, 12:42 PM
People that don't like random should really go try prismata. It wasn't for me, but it really seemed like it was an excellent implementation of limiting per player variance. While still keeping some globally random elements.

Prismata is a lot of fun. The main problem is that it's not a CCG/TCG. It's more of a turn based RTS... (Yes, I know that doesn't make sense because it's turn based real time strategy... but that's the only way I know to describe it).

Ertzi
06-17-2015, 12:43 PM
Sounds horrible to be honest. I play TCGs precisely because there is no rush. When I want to play an RTS, I play a real RTS. Of course this is all speculation, but the thought of playing cards at the same time as the opponent is very off-putting to me.

EDIT: Double ninja'd. I am referring to the Nova Blitz with my comments, not this Prismata thingy.

nicosharp
06-17-2015, 12:44 PM
Prismata is great. It's not a RTS, its simply a Turn-Based Strategy game. With a Chess Clock.
I need to go check it out, its been a few months, and I guess they've made some substantial updates.

israel.kendall
06-17-2015, 12:45 PM
Sounds horrible to be honest. I play TCGs precisely because there is no rush. When I want to play an RTS, I play a real RTS. Of course this is all speculation, but the thought of playing cards at the same time as the opponent is very off-putting to me.

EDIT: Double ninja'd. I am referring to the Nova Blitz with my comments, not this Prismata thingy.

It offputs me as well, much in the same way I love playing chess, but hate speed chess with a passion.

Svenn
06-17-2015, 01:01 PM
Prismata is great. It's not a RTS, its simply a Turn-Based Strategy game. With a Chess Clock.
I need to go check it out, its been a few months, and I guess they've made some substantial updates.

I compare it to an RTS simply because of the structure of the game. It feels a lot like the base building aspects of an RTS to me, not the real time part. It's most definitely just a turn based game.

wasichu
06-17-2015, 01:08 PM
I think mtg duels Origins could be pretty darn good. If anything it will be a good filler game while we wait for content on Hex. I am so sick of grinding arena for a measly 6.8k gold and staring at finding player Que window hoping for a match. Hearthstone was a decent filer for a while but it gets stale quick. A new set will give another injection of fun for 6 months but Hex really needs it's pve flowing 2 years in.

magic_gazz
06-17-2015, 01:14 PM
I tried Prismata. Seems good if you like that sort of thing.

My brain is slow though so I need time to think and Prismata doesn't give enough of that for me. My reactions are very slow and I just couldn't keep up with it.

I would suggest giving it a try, I believe it is free.

wolzarg
06-17-2015, 01:53 PM
I tried Prismata. Seems good if you like that sort of thing.

My brain is slow though so I need time to think and Prismata doesn't give enough of that for me. My reactions are very slow and I just couldn't keep up with it.

I would suggest giving it a try, I believe it is free.
As much as i keep crying about to much rng prismata actually doesn't have enough variance for me and while it seems like a good game its not one for me.

nicosharp
06-17-2015, 02:46 PM
As much as i keep crying about to much rng prismata actually doesn't have enough variance for me and while it seems like a good game its not one for me.
There is a lot of strategy and variance in how you choose to tech based on the advanced options that are randomly generated for each match, but generally this game is probably closer to 95% skill/knowledge, 5% luck, vs. HEX, which can be argued at 80% skill/knowledge, 20% luck, or much closer to 50%/50%...

Gwaer
06-17-2015, 02:51 PM
I'd argue that prismata is 100% skill. No luck. The random things are still identical for both players, right? So it's just a matter of who utilizes them better.

nicosharp
06-17-2015, 02:57 PM
I'd argue that prismata is 100% skill. No luck. The random things are still identical for both players, right? So it's just a matter of who utilizes them better.
There is always a 5% chance you lucked out and your opponent is drunk, fell asleep, or runs out of time.

Gwaer
06-17-2015, 02:58 PM
There is always a 5% chance you lucked out and your opponent is drunk, fell asleep, or runs out of time.

Hahaha. Fair enough. You win this round. =P

Jonesy
06-17-2015, 03:39 PM
Solforge was great at first...
then draft payouts got worse
then draft payouts got worse
then set 2 came out and draft payouts were packs of set 1 and 2 cards combined
then draft payouts got worse
then draft payouts got worse
then set 3 came out and draft payouts were packs of set 1 and 2 and 3 cards combined.
etc etc

But when it was just set 1 and draft payouts were good and you could draft into a playset I had a lot of fun and was willing to give them money.

Thrawn
06-17-2015, 04:26 PM
A lot of these games being discussed are still in beta or earlier. It doesn't seem fair to be completely judging where these games are at right now before release unless we do the same to Hex in comparison.

Erukk
06-17-2015, 04:30 PM
A lot of these games being discussed are still in beta or earlier. It doesn't seem fair to be completely judging where these games are at right now before release unless we do the same to Hex in comparison.

Well... To be fair, Hex is still "technically" in beta as well.

Xenavire
06-17-2015, 05:57 PM
Well... To be fair, Hex is still "technically" in beta as well.

Thats his point. He thinks it is two-faced to judge these other games while defending Hex with 'oh, but this upcoming feature...'

And he is right. But I would still say that Hex is better, right now, than a lot of competitors.

LunaPark
08-07-2015, 02:42 AM
Thanks for letting know about spellweaver. I did some digging a found the open beta.
I also looked for elder scrolls card game and only found the intro.
star wars digital card game i could'nt find anything.
i check kickstarter alot and came across nova blitz which you can play the alpha. Its kickstarter is still going.

MuffLord4
08-07-2015, 02:49 AM
The new magic f2p game on steam SUCKS hands down. It has an AVERAGE rating mostly held up by fanboys of the franchise on steam. Wotc should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Competition would be good for hex and the consumers in the long run, as I've said a billion times, there needs to be actual f2p PvP with progression to gain hearthstoners and the other PvP TCGers who want to earn cards by playing actual opponents and not bots.

Erukk
08-07-2015, 03:25 AM
The new magic f2p game on steam SUCKS hands down. It has an AVERAGE rating mostly held up by fanboys of the franchise on steam. Wotc should be unicornpooping ashamed of themselves.

Not all that surprising. We all know that any sort of f2p version of Magic is just a Trojan horse trying to hook players into switching to the real thing. They would never make the f2p version well enough where it might actually compete against the paid one. They would never risk the chance of self sabotaging themselves and accidently converting their own players to the free version. It would cut into their profits.


Competition would be good for hex and the consumers in the long run, as I've said a billion times, there needs to be actual f2p PvP with progression to gain hearthstoners and the other PvP TCGers who want to earn cards by playing actual opponents and not bots.

I would imagine they could do this once they finally get PvE up and rolling. If the "Chapter" PvE sets are big enough, this would encourage players to run the dungeons and raid to fill their collections. Then they can add a place/gladiatorial ring into the PvE map where players can compete using their PvE/Pvp decks (possibly minus the equips, because let's face it, those pve decks can be gross sometimes).

As for the rewards, maybe something like pouches of gold for winners of random matches (a la the Arena) and tokens or points to buy PvE cards and equipment only obtainable from the gladiatorial ring? That would encourage players to make use of the full extent of the PvE content, but it would also allow them to do Pvp style matches with a chance of rewards as well.

Quantius
08-07-2015, 04:49 AM
The new magic f2p game on steam SUCKS hands down. It has an AVERAGE rating mostly held up by fanboys of the franchise on steam. Wotc should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Competition would be good for hex and the consumers in the long run, as I've said a billion times, there needs to be actual f2p PvP with progression to gain hearthstoners and the other PvP TCGers who want to earn cards by playing actual opponents and not bots.

Yeah, MTG Duels is probably the worst incarnation of DotP yet. WOTC must be run by a bunch of octogenarians telling the internet to get off their lawn, because they can't seem to make a digital version of MTG to save their lives.

However, I would like to see more real competition in the CCG space because I think the pricing models are still ridiculous for randomized
packs of virtual cards. It's backwards, cards should be cheaper and easier to acquire so you have a thriving and healthy player base, then you create custom art, animations, sleeves, and other "status" items for cash. But it seems like CCG's want you to pay for cards and then just reward you the visual customization part for playing. Blizzard finally realized people will pay to have a different hero represent their class, it will print money. Basically, someone needs to apply the DotA2 model to a CCG. Massive tournament sponsored by a compendium which gives all sorts of limited time only exclusive visual rewards. People will pay for it happily. But constantly keeping up with every set just drains people until they decide they're done.

I've spent hundreds on HEX so far (yes, not a lot by comparison to others, but I do put my money where my mouth is and want to support HEX and see it grow), but I still feel the financial model is borked and will be the slow and inevitable downfall. It's a fast cash model which isn't sustainable - paper MTG being the exception because of it's long running incumbency.

MuffLord4
08-07-2015, 05:09 AM
Not all that surprising. We all know that any sort of f2p version of Magic is just a Trojan horse trying to hook players into switching to the real thing. They would never make the f2p version well enough where it might actually compete against the paid one. They would never risk the chance of self sabotaging themselves and accidently converting their own players to the free version. It would cut into their profits.



I would imagine they could do this once they finally get PvE up and rolling. If the "Chapter" PvE sets are big enough, this would encourage players to run the dungeons and raid to fill their collections. Then they can add a place/gladiatorial ring into the PvE map where players can compete using their PvE/Pvp decks (possibly minus the equips, because let's face it, those pve decks can be gross sometimes).

As for the rewards, maybe something like pouches of gold for winners of random matches (a la the Arena) and tokens or points to buy PvE cards and equipment only obtainable from the gladiatorial ring? That would encourage players to make use of the full extent of the PvE content, but it would also allow them to do Pvp style matches with a chance of rewards as well.

You should really put that idea somewhere, I really love the PvE-PvP idea you just had.

PureVapes
08-07-2015, 05:19 AM
I don't think Hex has to worry about direct competition as long as CZE focuses on being reliable and consistent with the system that's already in place. There have always been flashy, trendy rivals to MtG but its stability and depth keep it alive, and Hex can be the dTCG genre defining game of that level.



I'd argue that prismata is 100% skill. No luck. The random things are still identical for both players, right? So it's just a matter of who utilizes them better.

There is a tiny bit of luck, because some units favor the player who goes first or second due to the efficiency of building them early. Only really applies to the very top tier of players though.

starwing
08-07-2015, 05:25 AM
If hex brings a deep pve experience with leveling and multiple dungeons, the competition does not stand a chance. I think the pve content really needs to start taking priortiy, it should after set 3 hits.

Spellweaver is an example of a game that is actually better then hearthstone, kind of sad so few people play it.

^This. I already feel the competition stands no chance, on the basis of creative design alone. What I mean is that the cards in HEX have a lot more personality/flavour/character than other digital TCGs or CCGs, which makes it a lot more fun to play already. Then you factor in the PVE experience, and HEX is already ahead of the competition there. The Arena is already pretty fun for PVE, but the future developments are going to be mind-blowing, I believe.

Xenavire
08-07-2015, 06:21 AM
I don't think anyone expected WotC to make a good digital free to play game, and they obviously didn't. If their paid ones were that bad, you had to realise anything the put out for free would have to be as bad or worse.

It's sad they don't value their customers or playerbase enough to put out quality products.

Ogodei
08-07-2015, 06:21 AM
Well, the main problem is and will be that packs are just too expensive in Hex. Nobody in their right mind spends so much money for virtual cards (it's already idiotic to invest a larger amount of money into paper cards). It's just not reasonable at all. I still do it myself though, but it always makes me feel like a moron.

But the amount of crazy people is limited, even on the internet. So I doubt Hex will ever appeal to the mass market. At least the PvP part, which is a shame.

And say what you will about MtG Duels: Origins their AI is miles ahead of Hex's. Funny thing is people are still complaining about its stupidity, lol.

Xenavire
08-07-2015, 06:35 AM
Well, the main problem is and will be that packs are just too expensive in Hex. Nobody in their right mind spends so much money for virtual cards (it's already idiotic to invest a larger amount of money into paper cards). It's just not reasonable – at all. I still do it myself though, but it always makes me feel like a moron.

But the amount of crazy people is limited, even on the internet. So I doubt Hex will ever appeal to the mass market. At least the PvP part, which is a shame.

And say what you will about MtG Duels: Origins – their AI is miles ahead of Hex's. Funny thing is people are still complaining about its stupidity, lol.

People pay for Hearthstone, which can be entirely free to play. It has earned millions. And that investment cannot ever be recouped.

And the Duels AI can only handle certain situations (finite options). The Hex AI is a wip that deals with every card combination in the game. It just needs time.

Lafoote
08-07-2015, 07:08 AM
It's a TCG where players' collections have real world value. All these other games are chasing the easy CCG F2P money. Players will hopefully see the huge distinction here and invest their time and money where its actually worth something.

This is a few pages back, but needs to be addressed to a degree. Don't talk to me about 'value' until Hex has a 'withdraw' button on the shop screen. Until it does, the average person is never going to get a 1 for 1 ratio. Hex Primal is set up for you to do it, but most people will take a dramatic loss cashing out.

MuffLord4
08-07-2015, 07:14 AM
This is a few pages back, but needs to be addressed to a degree. Don't talk to me about 'value' until Hex has a 'withdraw' button on the shop screen. Until it does, the average person is never going to get a 1 for 1 ratio. Hex Primal is set up for you to do it, but most people will take a dramatic loss cashing out.

+++

Also very tired of this argument, I even made cash on league of legends, there's no reasonable way to make cash on hex for me.

Svenn
08-07-2015, 07:23 AM
+++

Also very tired of this argument, I even made cash on league of legends, there's no reasonable way to make cash on hex for me.

Define reasonable. You are definitely going to take a hit cashing out (especially when people can buy gift cards/gameforge e-pins at a 30%+ discount) but if you can't find someone to cash out to then you aren't looking very hard. Just don't sell to shops like HexPrimal because they'll give you pennies for anything.

Ogodei
08-07-2015, 07:25 AM
People pay for Hearthstone, which can be entirely free to play. It has earned millions. And that investment cannot ever be recouped.

That's the point. But that's because of the sheer amount of players and mass market appeal (and IP of course). But I suppose it's pretty safe to say Hearthstone makes less $/player.

Well, I spent about 100 $ the last 2 weeks for Hex and I'm probably a pretty casual player and didn't even play much (but lost a lot). The average player just won't do that.

And you need to keep in mind that it's mostly the bad and average players like me who finance all the packs that hardcore guys like you win in tournaments (and who give you that feeling "oh it's not that expensive after all and so easy to get packs") ;-)

It's just a flawed system in my opinion and not very friendly for beginners and casual players. Gauntlet makes things even worse, I burnt through packs like nothing. But I just didn't have time for drafts and scheduled events. Again, it favours those who have the time, money and experience.

MuffLord4
08-07-2015, 08:31 AM
Define reasonable. You are definitely going to take a hit cashing out (especially when people can buy gift cards/gameforge e-pins at a 30%+ discount) but if you can't find someone to cash out to then you aren't looking very hard. Just don't sell to shops like HexPrimal because they'll give you pennies for anything.

So tell me then where can I cash out, I searched and found nothing that I as a german could use.

Playing League netted me 16bucks/hour, not bad considering I was basically self employed and just playing a game.

Tazelbain
08-07-2015, 08:36 AM
Game still has lots missing system. Hopefully this sort feedback will help them prioritize systems that help new/casual pvp players. But right now those players should definitely give the rock league a look which is starting soon.

Svenn
08-07-2015, 08:43 AM
So tell me then where can I cash out, I searched and found nothing that I as a german could use.

Playing League netted me 16bucks/hour, not bad considering I was basically self employed and just playing a game.
You didn't look hard then. A quick google search could find some places. I sent you a PM because I don't want to go promoting specific sites here.

sukebe
08-07-2015, 12:52 PM
Well, the main problem is and will be that packs are just too expensive in Hex. Nobody in their right mind spends so much money for virtual cards (it's already idiotic to invest a larger amount of money into paper cards). It's just not reasonable – at all. I still do it myself though, but it always makes me feel like a moron.

But the amount of crazy people is limited, even on the internet. So I doubt Hex will ever appeal to the mass market. At least the PvP part, which is a shame.

And say what you will about MtG Duels: Origins – their AI is miles ahead of Hex's. Funny thing is people are still complaining about its stupidity, lol.

seriously? you must not be a card gamer then because Hex prices are pretty amazing for the quality of TCG you get. It is likely due to me playing MTG for so long but Hex is half the cost of a pack of magic cards and comes with a chance to get a primal pack in addition to the normal pack. It is very well priced as far as I can tell and I have been playing TCGs almost since they were created.


Define reasonable. You are definitely going to take a hit cashing out (especially when people can buy gift cards/gameforge e-pins at a 30%+ discount) but if you can't find someone to cash out to then you aren't looking very hard. Just don't sell to shops like HexPrimal because they'll give you pennies for anything.

seriously, you keep saying this but I have never once found a place selling gift cards at this big of a discount. where do you find these? Or are you going off hearsay? I would love to know since I live on a fixed income and would love to stretch it just a little further on the game I love. So far though these deep discounts are just myths as far as I can see.

Svenn
08-07-2015, 12:54 PM
seriously, you keep saying this but I have never once found a place selling gift cards at this big of a discount. where do you find these? Or are you going off hearsay? I would love to know since I live on a fixed income and would love to stretch it just a little further on the game I love. So far though these deep discounts are just myths as far as I can see.

G2A gameforge e-pins are about 30% off ($50 for 7k plat, $25 for 3500 plat, $10 for 1400 plat). They are almost always available.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 12:58 PM
G2A gameforge e-pins are about 30% off ($50 for 7k plat, $25 for 3500 plat, $10 for 1400 plat). They are almost always available.

* Caveat: G2A has had reports in the past of shady activity and scams and the like, HXE has stated they do not officially support them so use them at your own risk. Your mileage may vary, buyer beware, etc...

Svenn
08-07-2015, 12:58 PM
* Caveat: G2A has had reports in the past of shady activity and scams and the like, HXE has stated they do not officially support them so use them at your own risk. Your mileage may vary, buyer beware, etc...

Except they are apparently officially partnered with Gameforge.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 01:00 PM
Except they are apparently officially partnered with Gameforge.

I know, but Phenteo has posted that HXE's stance is different than Gameforge with regards to G2A, so... just adding a disclaimer :)


Please be aware that we do not endorse that site. Also, there have been reports in other games that they used stolen credit cards to illegally obtain either virtual items or the games themselves.

trapline
08-07-2015, 02:17 PM
I think it's great all these games are coming out. Competition in this space is good for the gamers, that's where innovative design springs from.

Don't latch on to one product, a lot of these games offer different experiences that have their own merits, and since they are f2p you lose nothing but some time in testing the waters.

Too often we think our thing has to be better than their thing and get tribal about it, there is plenty of room to enjoy all the products and make the digital tcg genre thrive. In the end it's good for us and good for the Industry.

N3rd4Christ
08-07-2015, 02:22 PM
I think it's great all these games are coming out. Competition in this space is good for the gamers, that's where innovative design springs from.

Don't latch on to one product, a lot of these games offer different experiences that have their own merits, and since they are f2p you lose nothing but some time in testing the waters.

Too often we think our thing has to be better than their thing and get tribal about it, there is plenty of room to enjoy all the products and make the digital tcg genre thrive. In the end it's good for us and good for the Industry.

The issue is Time. Time is way more valuable than an F2P model. Id rather be able to spend money getting cards than have to waste hours upon hours to get the same card from a F2P only model.

the_artic_one
08-07-2015, 02:44 PM
G2A gameforge e-pins are about 30% off ($50 for 7k plat, $25 for 3500 plat, $10 for 1400 plat). They are almost always available.

They sold out for a while after set 3 released. I think as the population grows those are going to become less reliable.