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Zophie
06-18-2015, 10:14 AM
More info on the new Gauntlet mode:

https://www.hextcg.com/enter-the-gauntlet/

This is so great for people with limited time, thanks HXE!

Mokog
06-18-2015, 10:38 AM
I am going to spend way too much platinum on gauntlet. The stream will be gauntlet sealed gauntlet constructed and arena to spin chests. Rinse lather repeat. My free time to the Hex Primals I offer up for sacrifice. May the picks be good and the draws be better.

Jormungandr
06-18-2015, 10:41 AM
This seems pretty solid to me as a format. Upon first reading wasn't a huge fan of single game matches for either version, but I think it definitely makes it a small time investment sort of format, which is pretty great. And the variance will even out in the long run, especially with three losses to give each time through. Any idea on how long the clocks will be since it's a game clock instead of a match clock?

Yoss
06-18-2015, 10:43 AM
Asynch has arrived!

:) Oh yeah! :)

I'm curious if they used my proposed matchmaking algorithm.

Mahes
06-18-2015, 10:45 AM
I hope this does not degrade draft to a point of barely firing but only at certain times of the day. I would at least like to be able to play one per week.

ossuary
06-18-2015, 10:52 AM
Is it just me or do the payouts seem to be not very good? Sealed you have to win the entire gauntlet just to recoup your packs. Add in the 200 plat fee on top and it's impossible to go infinite without selling a bunch of the cards you open on the AH afterwards.

Constructed you need 3 wins just to beat store prices... not very enticing either.

It's certainly convenient, and we've been waiting for that very excitedly, but the prizes don't really call out to me at all.

Zophie
06-18-2015, 10:55 AM
Is it just me or do the payouts seem to be not very good? Sealed you have to win the entire gauntlet just to recoup your packs. Add in the 200 plat fee on top and it's impossible to go infinite without selling a bunch of the cards you open on the AH afterwards.

Constructed you need 3 wins just to beat store prices... not very enticing either.

It's certainly convenient, and we've been waiting for that very excitedly, but the prizes don't really call out to me at all.

Well for sealed you keep your packs you open of course, so you only need 1 win to recoup entry fee. But I agree Constructed fee seems a tad high for the payouts, but I guess being really convenient to play is a plus though.

Kamino72
06-18-2015, 11:02 AM
I have computed the following reward assuming the win ratio is 50% :
5 wins 22,66% 6 packs
4 wins 11,72% 4 packs
3 wins 15,63% 3 packs
2 wins 18,75% 2 packs
1 wins 18,75% 1 packs
0 wins 12,50% 0 packs
The average is 2.86 packs or 572 plats per gauntlet.

500 plats fee in construct, are you kidding ?

Kamino72
06-18-2015, 11:05 AM
500 plats fee in construct, are you kidding ?

Maybe not that bad considering you don't have to crack packs.

EntropyBall
06-18-2015, 11:10 AM
Is it just me or do the payouts seem to be not very good? Sealed you have to win the entire gauntlet just to recoup your packs. Add in the 200 plat fee on top and it's impossible to go infinite without selling a bunch of the cards you open on the AH afterwards.

Constructed you need 3 wins just to beat store prices... not very enticing either.

It's certainly convenient, and we've been waiting for that very excitedly, but the prizes don't really call out to me at all.

I agree that it seems a lot worse than regular sealed, but at least this sealed will fire. And regular sealed you have to go undefeated to get the top prize. This you can go 5-2 and still get 6 packs. I feel like there should be prizes for 6,7,8 wins though, since it's only single games.

Kramer
06-18-2015, 11:27 AM
This is the second best feature and probably the most fun feature in the next patch. However, nothing imo was more important than Authenticator.

kaiizza
06-18-2015, 11:31 AM
I agree that it seems a lot worse than regular sealed, but at least this sealed will fire. And regular sealed you have to go undefeated to get the top prize. This you can go 5-2 and still get 6 packs. I feel like there should be prizes for 6,7,8 wins though, since it's only single games.

What do you mean 6,7,8 wins? you cant get 6 wins as it stops at 5.

Kramer
06-18-2015, 11:34 AM
@Kalizza, EntropyBall was trying to say, he hoped it would go higher than 5. HS has Arena, a similar format that awards up to 12 wins. I agree with him and wish it awarded more than 5 wins and/or added Stardust to the prize rewards.

Drake6k
06-18-2015, 11:36 AM
This format seems genius to me. The only problem I see is the cost and HEX's need for more f2p options.

CaravelBoomer
06-18-2015, 11:38 AM
I have computed the following reward assuming the win ratio is 50% :
5 wins 22,66% 6 packs
4 wins 11,72% 4 packs
3 wins 15,63% 3 packs
2 wins 18,75% 2 packs
1 wins 18,75% 1 packs
0 wins 12,50% 0 packs
The average is 2.86 packs or 572 plats per gauntlet.

500 plats fee in construct, are you kidding ?

Why is needing a sub 50% winrate to go infinite a bad thing?

This seems perfectly costed to me

darkwonders
06-18-2015, 11:50 AM
@Kalizza, EntropyBall was trying to say, he hoped it would go higher than 5. HS has Arena, a similar format that awards up to 12 wins. I agree with him and wish it awarded more than 5 wins and/or added Stardust to the prize rewards.

A) You're stuck with the random cards chosen in Arena. No sideboard to tweak your deck.
B) You don't get to keep the cards you draft in Arena.

Tazelbain
06-18-2015, 12:19 PM
Constructed gauntlets will be degenerate without sideboarding.

Zophie
06-18-2015, 12:21 PM
Constructed gauntlets will be degenerate without sideboarding.

There are still reserves, they're just kind of moot since you won't likely face the same opponent in any other matches. You can still stick a bunch of cards in there to swap out mid-Gauntlet though if you feel you might want to tweak your deck as you go.


In Constructed, you will take a 60-card minimum deck with champion and reserves into the Gauntlet. In-between matches, you can adjust your main deck with reserve cards and change champions. Since it’s unlikely that you will play against your previous opponent in your next match and the format is single-game matches, you won’t be adjusting to your opponent’s deck. Many will find reserves useful when tuning their best 60-card build; put 15 cards that you may want in your maindeck and adjust with each match as you search for perfection.

Refugee
06-18-2015, 12:23 PM
If you make it any cheaper (constructed) it becomes extremely exploitable. If you price it at 400 plat you can pay 800, join with two accounts at the same time and forfeit to yourself. You get 2 packs guaranteed and play on two accounts that get to play until 4 games lost gaining about a pack per win. So if you go 50/50 at that point you end up paying 800 plat for 6 packs on average, or 1.33 per pack. At current prices the same scenario puts you at 1.66 aka the auction house price minus time investment.

Yes, maybe you get banned. Maybe eventually Hex puts in precautions. But why not avoid the entire situation by pricing at a point that makes such behavior unappealing?

There is nothing currently in place that stops this other than the fact that it isn't particularly profitable. I've already tested it.

Tazelbain
06-18-2015, 12:32 PM
There are still reserves, they're just kind of moot since you won't likely face the same opponent in any other matches. You can still stick a bunch of cards in there to swap out mid-Gauntlet though if you feel you might want to tweak your deck as you go.That may use the reserves but that's not sideboarding.

Malakili
06-18-2015, 12:34 PM
Yeah, it's unfortunate. If it were a best of 3 instead of single matches I'd be extremely happy to play it. As it stands I have to admit that I don't think I will bother. I prefer to play control decks, and they rely heavily on sideboarding for some matchups. I guess I could just try to build degenerate decks that prey on people not being able to bring in sideboard hate, but that's barely playing Hex anymore.

Zophie
06-18-2015, 12:43 PM
That may use the reserves but that's not sideboarding.

I get it, I just don't think that means "degenerate" decks will ruin the experience, you just need to decide what strategies you want to be strong against and go for it. Chances are that you're going to experience a decent variety of deck strategies as you play through the Gauntlet and it'll be pretty challenging finding an answer for everything anyway, even if there was sideboarding.

Malakili
06-18-2015, 12:46 PM
That's not good reasoning "Well you can't sideboard against everything anyway" isn't an argument against sideboarding being good in general. It also is to say nothing of the much higher variance you get in any given single game compared to the best of 3 which helps to mitigate variance to some degree. Add those together and it just does not strike me as a competitive format.

hex_colin
06-18-2015, 12:48 PM
That's not good reasoning "Well you can't sideboard against everything anyway" isn't an argument against sideboarding being good in general. It also is to say nothing of the much higher variance you get in any given single game compared to the best of 3 which helps to mitigate variance to some degree. Add those together and it just does not strike me as a competitive format.

It's not supposed to be a competitive format. It's a very casual format.

Shaqattaq
06-18-2015, 12:48 PM
Though players won't use reserves in the way that they're accustomed to, I'm not sure which degenerate decks players are referring to. The metagame shapes which decks people play in tournaments and which decks appear to challenge the established decks; that will happen in Gauntlet as well. You'll probably see a greater variety of decks in Gauntlet due to the format and great value for the entry fee. If a deck becomes very popular in Gauntlet, players will adjust their strategies and decks accordingly as they have throughout the history of TCGs. Players can even tweak their deck with the way that reserves work in Gauntlet as they go on, adjusting to the perceived metagame of that moment. As outlined in the feature article, it's also a great way to fine tune decks when you're trying to get your perfect 60-card build.

Zophie
06-18-2015, 12:49 PM
That's not good reasoning "Well you can't sideboard against everything anyway" isn't an argument against sideboarding being good in general. It also is to say nothing of the much higher variance you get in any given single game compared to the best of 3 which helps to mitigate variance to some degree. Add those together and it just does not strike me as a competitive format.

I don't think I ever said sideboarding wasn't good in general, it's just not entirely relevant to this type of asynch format. You will need to find a way to deal with the added variance in your deck building strategy in order to get the benefit of playing through a tournament in bite sized chunks like this.

Edit: Also what Colin and Shaq said :D

Axle
06-18-2015, 12:51 PM
It's not supposed to be a competitive format. It's a very casual format.

So competitive players are still stuck waiting hours for an 8-man to launch? :(

hex_colin
06-18-2015, 12:53 PM
So competitive players are still stuck waiting hours for an 8-man to launch? :(

Very soon you won't be waiting for 8 man queues to fire. I guarantee it... :)

But, yes, Gauntlet is very clearly not for the competitive folks - they're better served in other queues.

Zophie
06-18-2015, 12:54 PM
So competitive players are still stuck waiting hours for an 8-man to launch? :(

Either that or find a way to be competitive within the nature of the asynch format. It's a new thing and I'm sure we'll see a lot of different metas shake out of the Gauntlet, I think it's pretty exciting!

Malakili
06-18-2015, 12:55 PM
You will need to find a way to deal with the added variance in your deck building strategy in order to get the benefit of playing through a tournament in bite sized chunks like this.


But... why? I guess the idea is you don't have to commit to an hour to play a match this way. I get the appeal of that. If it's meant to be a casual format it's meant to be a casual format and I really have nothing more to say about it because I'm not looking for another casual constructed format. But I'd certainly like it if there could be a version of the gauntlet with matches instead of just games.

Thrawn
06-18-2015, 12:56 PM
Gauntlet is a tournament with an entry fee and prize payout. Why wouldn't it be filled with people running top tier competitive decks, best or three or not? It will only be casual in the sense that you can play when you want.

Axle
06-18-2015, 01:00 PM
Well it's casual in the sense that I'll never be able to test my deck for a real tournament. I hope Colin is right about 8-mans firing more.

Tazelbain
06-18-2015, 01:00 PM
Gauntlet is a tournament with an entry fee and prize payout. Why wouldn't it be filled with people running top tier competitive decks, best or three or not? It will only be casual in the sense that you can play when you want.Tryhard!

Thrawn
06-18-2015, 01:02 PM
Tryhard!

You bet, I hear something like "casual, fun environment" and the first thing I think is "sweet, easy pickings for free packs". :D

Valnir
06-18-2015, 01:07 PM
Ho-Ho-Ho!

Zophie
06-18-2015, 01:08 PM
You bet, I hear something like "casual, fun environment" and the first thing I think is "sweet, easy pickings for free packs". :D

Maybe, though I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of an overall MMR working behind the scenes when placing us in our next match, in addition to what your success is with the current Gauntlet run. The more successful you are over multiple Gauntlet runs the less likely it might be to get paired up with less skilled players. (this is pure speculation of course)

magic_gazz
06-18-2015, 01:09 PM
I will give this format a try.

Was hoping for something a bit different though (best of 3, more prizes), but I assume this was not aimed at me anyway as I often sit at my computer for long periods of time.

Colin, how soon will these constructed events start firing more often? Just a small hint please.

Malakili
06-18-2015, 01:13 PM
Though players won't use reserves in the way that they're accustomed to, I'm not sure which degenerate decks players are referring to. The metagame shapes which decks people play in tournaments and which decks appear to challenge the established decks; that will happen in Gauntlet as well. You'll probably see a greater variety of decks in Gauntlet due to the format and great value for the entry fee. If a deck becomes very popular in Gauntlet, players will adjust their strategies and decks accordingly as they have throughout the history of TCGs. Players can even tweak their deck with the way that reserves work in Gauntlet as they go on, adjusting to the perceived metagame of that moment. As outlined in the feature article, it's also a great way to fine tune decks when you're trying to get your perfect 60-card build.

I mean, maybe the word degenerate is going a little too far. You're right that people will straight up main deck fringe cards if they have to. But you have to at least admit that best of 1 is going to favor linear decks pretty heavily.

Shaqattaq
06-18-2015, 01:15 PM
Various features are going to appeal to different players at different levels. A format like Gauntlet has more evenly distributed prizes than say, a tournament that has more top-heavy prize support. Both may appeal to a large cross-section of players, but they're clearly trying to do two different things. Gauntlet's number one priority is to provide people a way to play small, bite-sized games while still having some structure and some booster pack rewards. It's a great way to introduce people to Constructed or Sealed and provide a good value for players who aren't going to 5-0 their run. There's clearly a demand for this type of feature and players expect it. If players desire more competitive, high-stakes matches, there are other options.

Thrawn
06-18-2015, 01:19 PM
Why not also have a best of 3 gauntlet then? Just worry about not having enough players in beta to keep both full and running for now?

TOOT
06-18-2015, 01:19 PM
Can't say enough how much I love this format. It's perfectly designed for those who don't have a lot of time to play in one sitting.

Gorgol
06-18-2015, 01:20 PM
Hooray!

Zophie
06-18-2015, 01:21 PM
Why not also have a best of 3 gauntlet then? Just worry about not having enough players in beta to keep both full and running for now?

Baby steps, don't want to add too many new queues all at once, etc etc. My guess is that we might see more variations like this down the road as the population grows and demands more. Let's just see how this cool new feature works out first and then they can add more like it later.

Shaqattaq
06-18-2015, 01:22 PM
Why not also have a best of 3 gauntlet then? Just worry about not having enough players in beta to keep both full and running for now?

It does increase queue times in players being split between the different formats as well as some confusion as to which one players should choose. Primarily, though, that format would significantly increase the perceived time commitment a player makes when entering the Gauntlet.

Thrawn
06-18-2015, 01:29 PM
Is gauntlet sealed six set 3 booster packs? Think I missed that if it was explained already.

hex_colin
06-18-2015, 01:30 PM
Is gauntlet sealed six set 3 booster packs? Think I missed that if it was explained already.

Yes

Shaqattaq
06-18-2015, 01:31 PM
Is gauntlet sealed six set 3 booster packs? Think I missed that if it was explained already.

Yes, it is six packs and Gauntlet Sealed will be whatever the Sealed format is at that time. In this case, it's six packs of Armies.

LNQ
06-18-2015, 02:09 PM
Loving it! Async sealed that is. Cant wait, and I have multiple potential new players that I will introduce to Hex once this is up and running smoothly. Playing only for 30 mins at a time is crucial to many of us.

Cernz
06-18-2015, 02:14 PM
Loving it! Async sealed that is. Cant wait, and I have multiple potential new players that I will introduce to Hex once this is up and running smoothly. Playing only for 30 mins at a time is crucial to many of us.

This :)

bootlace
06-18-2015, 02:17 PM
Love it. I can now uninstall Hearthstone from my computer xD

RamzaBehoulve
06-18-2015, 02:18 PM
Very interesting. I'll definitively test them out!

Thoom
06-18-2015, 02:39 PM
Yes, it is six packs and Gauntlet Sealed will be whatever the Sealed format is at that time. In this case, it's six packs of Armies.

What happens when the format changes and you're mid-run?

The page says you can wait "years" between games. Could I keep a 0-0 set 3 sealed pool in reserve and spring it on somebody during the 12-12-11 format?

Shaqattaq
06-18-2015, 02:58 PM
What happens when the format changes and you're mid-run?

The page says you can wait "years" between games. Could I keep a 0-0 set 3 sealed pool in reserve and spring it on somebody during the 12-12-11 format?

Yup. What a surprise for your opponent, eh? :)

Zophie
06-18-2015, 03:01 PM
Yup. What a surprise for your opponent, eh? :)

Gauntlet Sleeper Agents! :D

Thoom
06-18-2015, 03:04 PM
Yup. What a surprise for your opponent, eh? :)

Freakin' sweet. :cool:

I am totally doing this on my spare account.

Mejis
06-18-2015, 03:26 PM
I'm so excited for gauntlet sealed. Entry fee for constructed seems a little high imo, but for sealed I'm all over it. I'll finally be able to dip in and out of the competitive scene without having to devote hours at a time that I simply don't have.

Thanks HEX, awesome work.

Can anyone clarify that there's no time limit on deck building for sealed? I can enter, play around building a deck, save it mid way and come back the following week (extreme example) and continue tweaking said deck?

Shaqattaq
06-18-2015, 03:33 PM
There's no deckbuilding time limit. You don't enter the queue until you've saved your deck and hit "Play A Game."

EntropyBall
06-18-2015, 03:35 PM
I'm really looking forward to this format. I hope that we still get some Set 1/2 sealed queues at some point, I'd love to use this format to burn through my remaining packs.

Yoss
06-18-2015, 03:51 PM
For those who think the payout is bad, please help me figure out the math. It seems like the payout is actually amazing (considering all players, not just yourself). I posted my (maybe flawed) math over in the announcement thread.

nicosharp
06-18-2015, 03:54 PM
For those who think the payout is bad, please help me figure out the math. It seems like the payout is actually amazing (considering all players, not just yourself). I posted my (maybe flawed) math over in the announcement thread.

I'll work on this later.. Been a busy day, but your math looks way off in the other thread... at least based on your outcomes.

israel.kendall
06-18-2015, 03:57 PM
Just finished my first sealed gauntlet and I love the freedom to do other things and play on my time. Thx

Bmon
06-18-2015, 04:02 PM
The gauntlet is fantastic news! An asynch format for both limited and constructed with a short time requirement is pretty much exactly what Hex needs.

That said I 100% agree with Tazelbain that BO1 without reserves leads to a degenerate metagame. Keep gauntlet as it is as it needs the small time commitment a BO1 format offers, but please don't link qualifiers to competitive events to a casual format. Link the qualifiers to BO3 formats with reserves to help get those constructed queues firing. Based on hints from Colin it looks like this is already the plan though. If so, thanks and keep up the great work :)

Gwaer
06-18-2015, 04:20 PM
Ugh, now I have to enter the gauntlet on all of my kickstarter accounts so I can bust out the set 3 in sets 20 years from now.

Yoss
06-18-2015, 04:32 PM
Update regarding the math, Constructed Gauntlet pays out at 175p per pack (taken as an average across all players). I don't see why people are complaining.

EDIT:
With assumption that a pack costs 165p on the AH, Sealed Gauntlet pays out at 120p per open pack.
For reference, Draft pays at 116p per open pack.
8-man Synch Constructed pays at 160p per pack.

Mejis
06-18-2015, 04:55 PM
Just finished my first sealed gauntlet and I love the freedom to do other things and play on my time. Thx

Sweet.
Sucks that it's a work daytime in Aus. I wanna be test server bug squishing and gauntlet testing!

israel.kendall
06-18-2015, 05:20 PM
Sweet.
Sucks that it's a work daytime in Aus. I wanna be test server bug squishing and gauntlet testing!

I spent over 2 hours deck building sealed while doing crap around the house. It was glorious!

Scod
06-18-2015, 05:22 PM
Sweet.
Sucks that it's a work daytime in Aus. I wanna be test server bug squishing and gauntlet testing!

I was thinking the same thing until I was awake at 2:45 this morning and couldn't get back to sleep so I went on and played a few games, cracked some packs and will look at the gauntlet when I get home this arvo (If I'm still awake).

This mode is great as a lot of people have mentioned, as for me with a young child, I'm lucky to get anymore than 2 hours in at a time, so I love being able to possibly win packs without the investment of time a draft, yet not just cracking packs cold and gaining no benefit.

Yoss
06-18-2015, 06:41 PM
Either that or find a way to be competitive within the nature of the asynch format.

I'd say "this asynch format" since there are definitely other ones they could (and should) still do, like what the community outlined for converting the 8-man single elimination queue into asynch without changing anything else. This "Gauntlet" is great and all, but it did a lot more than just make it asynch. I still hope the 8-man Competitive Constructed gets converted to Asynch. The only things that should be Synch are Draft and Large Events.

Zophie
06-18-2015, 06:51 PM
I'd say "this asynch format" since there are definitely other ones they could (and should) still do, like what the community outlined for converting the 8-man single elimination queue into asynch without changing anything else. This "Gauntlet" is great and all, but it did a lot more than just make it asynch. I still hope the 8-man Competitive Constructed gets converted to Asynch. The only things that should be Synch are Draft and Large Events.

Yeah I agree, I mentioned that in another reply too, let's see how this one works out and I'm sure we'll see more asynch formats down the road :)

Xexist
06-18-2015, 07:14 PM
Gauntlets????

http://i60.tinypic.com/11vmqtu.jpg

Mejis
06-18-2015, 08:46 PM
I spent over 2 hours deck building sealed while doing crap around the house. It was glorious!

This. This is going to be me every weekend most likely. I will pour over my sealed decks in detail, over the course of tiny snatches of time.

PS please can we extend the test server time? Sucks that I'll wake up Sat morning and it'll all be over :(

IronPheasant
06-18-2015, 09:22 PM
Had a nice time with a couple games, lost the third one because I'm a derp master, they re-started the tourney server in the middle of that third one so it recorded me as 2-0, aaaand can't get another game in there to fire despite letting it wait for hours.

But it's a really nice feature once it gets worked out. Something that can be spread over days instead of a fat lump of 2 hours.

Harsgalt
06-18-2015, 10:20 PM
This format means I can play in tournaments much more regularly! Instead of blocking out a morning/afternoon/evening on the weekends, I can play a game (or two) every night after work and play a tournament a week!

ThomasHunter
06-19-2015, 08:34 AM
This seems pretty sweet to me! Can't wait!

Aside1 - Is this the new "leagues" or am I not remembering correctly that there will be leagues eventually? I'm in the same boat as a few others where having some sort of "flashback" league would be fun from time to time. It's always fun to revisit a format!

Aside 2 - This kind of blows me away. In some ways, this is league-type play is what I have been longing for! This is really a fantastic way to open packs and play. The pairing seems like it will encourage firing games often. Now, here's what blows me away: that "other" game has been trying to implement this (or have they!) for years and yet here Hex comes up with a nice, elegant game play style that fits "leagues". Wow, just wow.

Hex continues to chew up more and more of my gaming budget - and this isn't a bad thing at all!!! I have to start considering what this means for my 2016 budget! ;)

Happy gaming all!
Taleisin

Rapkannibale
06-19-2015, 10:10 AM
Yeah, it's unfortunate. If it were a best of 3 instead of single matches I'd be extremely happy to play it. As it stands I have to admit that I don't think I will bother. I prefer to play control decks, and they rely heavily on sideboarding for some matchups. I guess I could just try to build degenerate decks that prey on people not being able to bring in sideboard hate, but that's barely playing Hex anymore.

If it was best out of three it would not appeal to the people this mode is targeted at. This is for players that can't dedicate 1 to 3 hours to playing in a tournament. So that is why I will playing it because it lets me win some prizes and play the game with a small time investment.

Xzaron
06-19-2015, 10:28 AM
@Shaq or Colin From my initial testing it seems there was no matchmaking for gauntlet? Can you confirm/deny? I think the mode overall is great but if there is no MM i would be real hesitant to spend money playing it.

hex_colin
06-19-2015, 10:36 AM
@Shaq or Colin From my initial testing it seems there was no matchmaking for gauntlet? Can you confirm/deny? I think the mode overall is great but if there is no MM i would be real hesitant to spend money playing it.

It tries to match similar records. As matchmaking time progresses the criteria loosen for what's acceptable. On live I would expect the vast majority of matches to be against people with the same record. On test, it's probably a crapshoot since most would have been drafting.

wolzarg
06-19-2015, 10:41 AM
I'm so saving a set3 sealed and set 1,2,3 constructed deck for a fun surprise down the line. This format probably isn't for me but i know it will make a lot of people happy so good job guys!

israel.kendall
06-19-2015, 11:10 AM
Had a nice time with a couple games, lost the third one because I'm a derp master, they re-started the tourney server in the middle of that third one so it recorded me as 2-0, aaaand can't get another game in there to fire despite letting it wait for hours.

But it's a really nice feature once it gets worked out. Something that can be spread over days instead of a fat lump of 2 hours.

I also started having this problem. Just sitting there looking for games and it never finds me one. But pretty much impossible for me to tell if it's a bug or just a reflection of a low number of people playing gauntlet on TEST.

EntropyBall
06-19-2015, 11:22 AM
This thing is an even better entry point for new players than I originally realized. Being able to take as much time as you want to read all the cards and build your deck (in sealed) is great! And then being able to see what worked/didn't work between matches and have tons of time to adjust. Definitely the best way for new people to dip into PVP.

Rycajo
06-19-2015, 12:20 PM
This thing is an even better entry point for new players than I originally realized. Being able to take as much time as you want to read all the cards and build your deck (in sealed) is great! And then being able to see what worked/didn't work between matches and have tons of time to adjust. Definitely the best way for new people to dip into PVP.

I definitely agree. Was really odd (read: "very nice") that I wasn't being rushed with the new cards. And after my first match, I could completely revamp what I had made. I think this is the best way to play sealed.

knightofeffect
06-19-2015, 12:45 PM
I hope CZE really considers making a super casual gold-entry version for constructed.

I think that would really open the doors to the new player, really promote constructed play, and heck even help develop the meta.

The payout could simply be gold, or PvE-ish rewards: dust, PvE chests, cards, etc.

Zophie
06-19-2015, 12:52 PM
I think it'd be better if they just sold entry tickets for tournaments/gauntlet separately in the store for plat, and let them be traded/sold on the AH for gold.

Yoss
06-19-2015, 01:10 PM
I think it'd be better if they just sold entry tickets for tournaments/gauntlet separately in the store for plat, and let them be traded/sold on the AH for gold.

They already do, in the form of Plat and Packs, both of which go to the AH for trade.

Littlejon24
06-19-2015, 01:14 PM
one suggestion for Gauntlet format.

for those that wish for a more competitive format, is it possible to simply provide a small reward for going undefeated? perhaps sleeves, or Star Dust to unlock different versions of cards?

israel.kendall
06-19-2015, 01:14 PM
They already do, in the form of Plat and Packs, both of which go to the AH for trade.

Yeah because that's like just as easy as buying a ticket...

nicosharp
06-19-2015, 01:21 PM
Yeah because that's like just as easy as buying a ticket...
I don't think it's anyone's job to make F2P currency transactions to $ paid currency easy.

Tazelbain
06-19-2015, 01:26 PM
I don't think it's anyone's job to make F2P currency transactions to $ paid currency easy.More to the point Chark deliberate doesn't want it to be.

TOOT
06-19-2015, 01:30 PM
I hope CZE really considers making a super casual gold-entry version for constructed.

I think that would really open the doors to the new player, really promote constructed play, and heck even help develop the meta.

The payout could simply be gold, or PvE-ish rewards: dust, PvE chests, cards, etc.

I like this idea. Make it piddly enough so it won't detract from the main gameplay avenues of experienced players yet be viable for people with starter deck level collections to compete and sucked into PVP/competitive play.

I'd go with something like a 1k gold entry fee, and award the same prize logic as boosters but replacing a booster with 1k gold.

Tazelbain
06-19-2015, 01:46 PM
Not going to happen. There is a wall between PvE and PvP and player trading is the only way to cross it. HexEnt is hardcore about it.

israel.kendall
06-19-2015, 01:51 PM
I don't think it's anyone's job to make F2P currency transactions to $ paid currency easy.

This is an entirely different point than equating the selling of packs and plat to selling tickets. They are not the same concept. That is the entire point of my post, I really have no opinion on if it's anyone's job.

Mokog
06-19-2015, 01:55 PM
Real world MMO's have a correlation here, raiding. The meta game is the class and spec combinations for the raids. The raid size would be the level of seriousness.

Last I heard there wasn't a huge amount of variety in top end raiding or even casual raiding. Players pick the most optimal strategy and run with it.

So if a form of Meta works for the paying top end contenders, casual folks will mimic those decks and wreck face of the uninformed. No additional meta develops and the ones who would have loss due to ignorance still do anyway. Building restrictions like the Rock league promotes different meta games for players to adapt to. The prize structures and entry fees do not have the same impact by any measure.

nicosharp
06-19-2015, 02:05 PM
This is an entirely different point than equating the selling of packs and plat to selling tickets. They are not the same concept. That is the entire point of my post, I really have no opinion on if it's anyone's job.
Sorry, going back to the root - the "ask" was to allow folks to buy a ticket to enter these queues, and then sell the tickets for gold on the AH to players to join the queue.
You take the word "job" out of it, and it's still the same thing.
You are making a F2P currency transaction to paid $ currency transaction easier.

I believe there is a goal trying to be upheld here - Which is to not have a strong hand influencing the player economy. Especially when it comes to the two distinct currencies.

israel.kendall
06-19-2015, 02:22 PM
Sorry, going back to the root - the "ask" was to allow folks to buy a ticket to enter these queues, and then sell the tickets for gold on the AH to players to join the queue.
You take the word "job" out of it, and it's still the same thing.
You are making a F2P currency transaction to paid $ currency transaction easier.

I believe there is a goal trying to be upheld here - Which is to not have a strong hand influencing the player economy. Especially when it comes to the two distinct currencies.

Oh, I have no opinion on if it is good or not to sell tickets on the AH like that. I'm just here to read others opinions, but felt that the argument of "we already have tickets since we sell packs & plat on the AH" (which plat is not sold on the AH actually) was a poor argument, as the entire purpose of tickets would be to make the transaction easier and quicker for all involved.

nicosharp
06-19-2015, 02:28 PM
Oh, I have no opinion on if it is good or not to sell tickets on the AH like that. I'm just here to read others opinions, but felt that the argument of "we already have tickets since we sell packs & plat on the AH" (which plat is not sold on the AH actually) was a poor argument, as the entire purpose of tickets would be to make the transaction easier and quicker for all involved.
Gotcha. I believe Yoss was responding to the need/ask to "sell" tickets.
If you were not responding to that specifically, the comment was unnecessarily sarcastic :)
If you were - the Point of Sale for tickets can be argued much more important to maintain and keep standalone from tradeable/store bought purchases.

I really don't see the point in selling tickets, if there is a set plat value, and those tickets can be offset in some cases by packs owned by the player entering the tournament. Tournament "Entry Fees" do not need to be consolidated further.

Xexist
06-19-2015, 02:33 PM
This thing is an even better entry point for new players than I originally realized. Being able to take as much time as you want to read all the cards and build your deck (in sealed) is great! And then being able to see what worked/didn't work between matches and have tons of time to adjust. Definitely the best way for new people to dip into PVP.

New and old players alike, I think this format is going to be Fracking AWESOME

Yoss
06-19-2015, 02:59 PM
Oh, I have no opinion on if it is good or not to sell tickets on the AH like that. I'm just here to read others opinions, but felt that the argument of "we already have tickets since we sell packs & plat on the AH" (which plat is not sold on the AH actually) was a poor argument, as the entire purpose of tickets would be to make the transaction easier and quicker for all involved.

Go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say that plat is "sold" on the AH. I said plat and packs go to the AH for trade, which they do. Packs trade for plat or gold. Plat trades for everything except gold.

israel.kendall
06-19-2015, 03:01 PM
Go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say that plat is "sold" on the AH. I said plat and packs go to the AH for trade, which they do. Packs trade for plat or gold. Plat trades for everything except gold.

Yes I must have misunderstood your wording there. But still this does not equate to the concept of tickets, which is purely a convenience thing IMO.

Yoss
06-19-2015, 03:08 PM
Yes I must have misunderstood your wording there. But still this does not equate to the concept of tickets, which is purely a convenience thing IMO.

If Chark wanted convenience, he would have implemented the requested Currency Exchange. I really wish he did, but he's explicitly said he likes the extra "layer of abstraction" between the currencies. I still don't agree, but he's the boss, not me.

Zophie
06-19-2015, 03:22 PM
Go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say that plat is "sold" on the AH. I said plat and packs go to the AH for trade, which they do. Packs trade for plat or gold. Plat trades for everything except gold.

Yeah and I'm just saying use that same mentality for the entry fee for various tournaments. Make the entry free a tradable item instead a currency cost. People can still pay the currency fee at the door if they dont have the item, or they can stock up on the item by purchasing them directly from the store for $$$, or they can sell those tickets bought for cash on the AH for gold at whatever price they feel is appropriate. The players will set the gold price on how much they feel it's worth, not HXE, exactly the same as how it works with packs of cards right now.

I just think the benefit to this is that players will see those tickets are available for gold and it gives them a more direct goal to work towards and they can save up gold to buy it without having to figure out how to shuffle stuff on the AH to get plat instead, giving them a more positive experience when trying to get into drafts. After grinding gold to pay for some drafts they might decide they love drafts and just start paying for them with cash instead. On the other side of it this would also benefit paying players by giving them more options for "buying" gold by selling tickets instead of just packs/cards.

Just my thoughts.

Chark
06-19-2015, 03:25 PM
Yes I must have misunderstood your wording there. But still this does not equate to the concept of tickets, which is purely a convenience thing IMO.

The purpose of tickets is to allow us give out promotional and customer service recovery tournament entries that are account bound. So selling tickets would sort of break that.

nicosharp
06-19-2015, 03:26 PM
It just seems that gets really close to selling coins in wow for monthly subscription time...
Its a route many games are taking, but it is a lot more heavily influencing exchanges - vs. packs that can be won.. these tickets can't be won. They are the closest thing, if sold, to a direct intrinsic value of plat to gold.

israel.kendall
06-19-2015, 03:29 PM
The purpose of tickets is to allow us give out promotional and customer service recovery tournament entries that are account bound. So selling tickets would sort of break that.

If it breaks it that's good enough reason for me.

Yoss
06-19-2015, 03:42 PM
Yeah and I'm just saying use that same mentality for the entry fee for various tournaments. Make the entry free a tradable item instead a currency cost. People can still pay the currency fee at the door if they dont have the item, or they can stock up on the item by purchasing them directly from the store for $$$, or they can sell those tickets bought for cash on the AH for gold at whatever price they feel is appropriate. The players will set the gold price on how much they feel it's worth, not HXE, exactly the same as how it works with packs of cards right now.

I just think the benefit to this is that players will see those tickets are available for gold and it gives them a more direct goal to work towards and they can save up gold to buy it without having to figure out how to shuffle stuff on the AH to get plat instead, giving them a more positive experience when trying to get into drafts. After grinding gold to pay for some drafts they might decide they love drafts and just start paying for them with cash instead. On the other side of it this would also benefit paying players by giving them more options for "buying" gold by selling tickets instead of just packs/cards.

Just my thoughts.

Your idea is fine with me. I am neither for nor against it. (EDIT: Chark already answered above.)

If you know me, you know I'm all about market efficiency and efficiency in general. As such, I'd say a much better way to solve the problem you're talking about is to provide a direct currency market on the AH (market driven). Remove all the mystery and abstraction, just put it right out there. No more fancy formulas on fansites to try and figure out what the real trade rate is, no more of any of the problems you're talking about above. Simple. Efficient. Wonderful.

Chark
06-19-2015, 04:45 PM
It just seems that gets really close to selling coins in wow for monthly subscription time...
Its a route many games are taking, but it is a lot more heavily influencing exchanges - vs. packs that can be won.. these tickets can't be won. They are the closest thing, if sold, to a direct intrinsic value of plat to gold.

I mean the reasons to sell game time for in-game currencies is essentially to allow players to cross over into paid services with free-to-play currency and to allow customers to buy free-to-play currency. We already have that with one currency pegged against real currencies and with the market place that can facilitate the exchange between the free-to-play and paid currencies.

The other thing that I believe WoW sub sales aim to accomplish is to legitimize gold selling in the client and thus remove the need that third-part sellers were fulfilling. If there's a legitimate way to buy gold in the game, then I don't really need to go to a sketchy third party site. It's a bit more complex then the above statement (because the third party sellers can still compete on price and still make it a reasonable value prop to go with them over Blizzard, but in the end that eats pretty hard core into their profits and may make a bunch of their business models unsustainable).

Finally, I think the last goal is to regulate inflation in the game by setting a band for the in-game currency to RL currency exchange rate. I think it's a reasonable attempt and I trust that they have intelligent people looking at this. We do this too, but a little more indirect through the game's gold faucets and sinks. Interestingly enough calculating WoW's inflation as an outsider is a little difficult because there isn't a consistent basket of goods and services in WoW between Vanilla and now available to the outsiders. In fact, I can only think of one or two services that remained somewhat consistent. Admittedly, it's been a good 3 years since I played WoW and this may have changed.

Xexist
06-19-2015, 05:00 PM
it's been a good 3 years since I played WoW and this may have changed.

Thats weird, thats about how long youve been playing He....

ohhhhhhhhhh

nicosharp
06-19-2015, 05:25 PM
snip
Yeah, sorry, my post fell after your own, but it was completing a thought based on a post above it. I like the system HEX has now, and would not be a fan of adding additional ways for players to make these transactions easily.

Skirovik
06-20-2015, 03:50 AM
Oh man I'm so excited for Gauntlet! I'll be playing way, WAY more sealed than I ever had before. This feature is the one I'll be sharing with all my friends to get them (in some cases, back) into Hex.

darkwonders
06-20-2015, 09:31 AM
The thing about the WoW Coin Sub is that it is a one time deal. Paying Customer will spend $20 on a coin. Based on Blizzard's algorithm, it'll be worth X amount of gold. That person then places his coin in the selling queue and someone with that amount of gold buys it.

Once the coin has been sold once in game, it is soulbound, meaning players can't hoard coins bought with gold hoping to get a better deal with it later on. That keeps whatever Blizzard wants in check, in check.

Not saying that has any relevance to what's here. Just explaining how it's contained in another game.

regomar
06-21-2015, 09:29 AM
Sounds awesome, reminds me of 'Leagues' from the old, old version of MTGO. I was so sad when they did away with that format.

nickon
06-22-2015, 05:36 AM
This combined with tablet support is a match made in heaven! Can't wait for it!

Cernz
06-22-2015, 05:50 AM
gauntlet + tablet = nuts :) .... hi@ 2-3 gauntlet matches @lunch break ;D

incitfulmonk21
06-22-2015, 08:55 AM
This has been one of the two things I care about in Hex, PvE the other, I am elated with this announcement as I can finally start playing Hex for realzies. I never had enough time to do a tournament and am not a huge fan of draft but Sealed gauntlet is the answer to all my PvP questions!

Vorpal
06-22-2015, 09:57 AM
I don't see the reason for a 'best of 3' gauntlet. It runs completely contrary to what the purpose of gauntlet is, which is to give people who can't set aside a 4 hour block of time an entry point into tournaments.

Tazelbain
06-22-2015, 12:15 PM
Best of 3 doesn't take 4 hours. Solid one hour chunks is still more convent than 3-4 chunks.

It's perfectly fine that gauntlet isn't a competitive format. What's not so fine is competitive, outside of player-run tournaments, is dead. Hopefully gauntlets can help people get confidence to give competitive formats a try also.

But I won't pretend to hide my disappointment that gauntlets won't directly help the competitive situation.

hex_colin
06-22-2015, 12:19 PM
Best of 3 doesn't take 4 hours. Solid one hour chunks is still more convent than 3-4 chunks.

It's perfectly fine that gauntlet isn't a competitive format. What's not so fine is competitive, outside of player-run tournaments, is dead. Hopefully gauntlets can help people get confidence to give competitive formats a try also.

But I won't pretend to hide my disappointment that gauntlets won't directly help the competitive situation.

Again, qualifying for the $100K tournament will give true competitive play all the help it needs.

Tazelbain
06-22-2015, 12:29 PM
"In Cory, we trust"

Fyren
06-22-2015, 12:29 PM
But I won't pretend to hide my disappointment that gauntlets won't directly help the competitive situation.

It could indirectly. Sometimes you have to start out casual before you go hardcore, you know?

Werlix
06-22-2015, 12:50 PM
Best of 3 doesn't take 4 hours. Solid one hour chunks is still more convent than 3-4 chunks.

It's perfectly fine that gauntlet isn't a competitive format. What's not so fine is competitive, outside of player-run tournaments, is dead. Hopefully gauntlets can help people get confidence to give competitive formats a try also.

But I won't pretend to hide my disappointment that gauntlets won't directly help the competitive situation.

It will be competitive in its own right. Best of 1s are still legit competitive, it just requires different strategies. If people are running more of strategy X because of no sideboarding then just play the counter to X.

Axle
06-22-2015, 02:12 PM
So single format for casuals is going to be more expensive than bo3? Lol

Honestly I feel BO3 is best because these people who only have enough time to play ONE GAME don't exist the majority of the time. This is because HEX isn't on a tablet or anything yet where you won't be in front of your computer. Having one hour to play a match should be the normal amount a person short on time will have if they're in front of their desktop. Unless they're trying to get a single game before work starts or something which is silly.

incitfulmonk21
06-22-2015, 02:32 PM
So single format for casuals is going to be more expensive than bo3? Lol

Honestly I feel BO3 is best because these people who only have enough time to play ONE GAME don't exist the majority of the time. This is because HEX isn't on a tablet or anything yet where you won't be in front of your computer. Having one hour to play a match should be the normal amount a person short on time will have if they're in front of their desktop. Unless they're trying to get a single game before work starts or something which is silly.

I don't agree that they don't exist a majority of the time. While getting an hour isn't impossible some people are really quite busy or have kids to distract or only get a little time before bed to play. Again an hour isn't terrible but a thirty minute window is so much easier to guarantee.

Tazelbain
06-22-2015, 02:40 PM
Are the gauntlet timers shorter?

Rycajo
06-22-2015, 03:45 PM
Are the gauntlet timers shorter?

I don't think they were shorter, but they need to be. 15 minutes per player max. 12 is what I would like to see.

Yoss
06-22-2015, 05:57 PM
Again, qualifying for the $100K tournament will give true competitive play all the help it needs.
That depends on your definition of "all the help it needs." I agree that it will make the queue fire off. With that much prize on the line, they could have the format be anything and people would go for it, but that doesn't mean the format is ideal, nor that it will attract the maximal number of players. I still see zero reason to keep the 8-man Constructed queue in a Synch format. There is zero downside to making it Asynch while maintaining the exact same play and prize structures, including qualifier points (details in Features List in my sig).


Are the gauntlet timers shorter?
Good question.

sukebe
06-22-2015, 07:05 PM
So single format for casuals is going to be more expensive than bo3? Lol

Honestly I feel BO3 is best because these people who only have enough time to play ONE GAME don't exist the majority of the time. This is because HEX isn't on a tablet or anything yet where you won't be in front of your computer. Having one hour to play a match should be the normal amount a person short on time will have if they're in front of their desktop. Unless they're trying to get a single game before work starts or something which is silly.

Personally, I didnt think people existed who could not set aside 3.5 hours for a draft or other competitive event but the fact is, different people have different amounts of time for games. if you want a best of 3 event then we have had those this whole time, just join a tournament :-) Maybe once we get 100k+ active players we can start to afford to split the queues even further but I think this gauntlet they have planned will be great for now.

Tazelbain
06-22-2015, 07:33 PM
I don't think they were shorter, but they need to be. 15 minutes per player max. 12 is what I would like to see.
Seems important to make sure matches are actually bite size.

Mejis
06-22-2015, 11:11 PM
Personally, I didnt think people existed who could not set aside 3.5 hours for a draft or other competitive event but the fact is, different people have different amounts of time for games. if you want a best of 3 event then we have had those this whole time, just join a tournament :-) Maybe once we get 100k+ active players we can start to afford to split the queues even further but I think this gauntlet they have planned will be great for now.

This. I think we'll see a tonne of people playing gauntlet sealed, and I'm going to be one of them. Having bite sized competitive format (and yes I see it as competitive, even though it isn't Bo3) in sealed, where I can spend my own time crafting a deck and then do one match at a time at my own pace is an absolute dream. I'm sure there will be many more like me. I have already put in some fair $ to beloved HEX, but with this I'll be throwing money at it ;)

Cernz
06-22-2015, 11:16 PM
This. I think we'll see a tonne of people playing gauntlet sealed, and I'm going to be one of them. Having bite sized competitive format (and yes I see it as competitive, even though it isn't Bo3) in sealed, where I can spend my own time crafting a deck and then do one match at a time at my own pace is an absolute dream. I'm sure there will be many more like me. I have already put in some fair $ to beloved HEX, but with this I'll be throwing money at it ;)

this :D

OutlandishMatt
06-22-2015, 11:53 PM
Things I am saddened by:

1. No Set 1 & 2 Gauntlet. :-(
2. If you're throwing 500 platinum at a constructed gauntlet, you already know your deck is fine tuned and do not need reserves in best of 1 games. Therefor reserves are pointless.
3. For this to target a casual crowd it has a semi high entry point.
4. For this to have a semi high entry point it doesn't pay out as much as I would expect.

I think we will see a surge in sealed play when the patch hits but it will slowly diminish to a semi-steady pace with surges every expansion release. The real struggle will be to keep players in it.

I think constructed will need some tickets handed out otherwise we could see some unhappy players in a couple of months stuck in queues if the current prize support is the same.

I foresee AA promos for Gauntlet play.

Matt

Mejis
06-22-2015, 11:56 PM
Things I am saddened by:

1. No Set 1 & 2 Gauntlet. :-(
2. If you're throwing 500 platinum at a constructed gauntlet, you already know your deck is fine tuned and do not need reserves in best of 1 games. Therefor reserves are pointless.
3. For this to target a casual crowd it has a semi high entry point.
4. For this to have a semi high entry point it doesn't pay out as much as I would expect.

Matt

I agree that the constructed side isn't overly casual friendly in terms of entry cost, but the sealed side certainly feels fine to me.

I would imagine additional gauntlet modes will come in time, including mash ups of different sets etc.

israel.kendall
06-23-2015, 12:21 AM
Paying 500p to compete in constructed is competitive by definition. There is nothing casual about it really.

darkwonders
06-23-2015, 04:55 AM
Honestly, Constructed Gauntlet should be BO3 while Sealed is fine the way it is.

With Constructed, you really do need a sideboard to make sure some decks don't run rampant. That's what makes constructed competitive because you're not only up against a deck, but whatever metagame counters said opponent has placed.

With sealed it's less of an issue because everything is so random.

Besides, I think people who have spent the money on constructed decks probably have more 1 hr chunks to spare than people who want to occasionally play sealed.

They're two very different demographics.

AstaSyneri
06-23-2015, 05:10 AM
I don't agree that they don't exist a majority of the time. While getting an hour isn't impossible some people are really quite busy or have kids to distract or only get a little time before bed to play. Again an hour isn't terrible but a thirty minute window is so much easier to guarantee.

Exactly this: It's rare that I can actually play a draft instead of just rare-drafting. Getting 30 minutes in between is much easier.

Once Set 3 hits I'll be playing a lot of Sealed Gauntlet. Constructed Gauntlet misses its target for me - I'd need to win at least 2.5 games per run to break even, not a situation where I want to take half-baked decks for testing. Which means only the very best tournament decks get entered into this queue, something I don't have (and I hate those slow Sapphire oppenent decks - I'd rather lose fast).

In Sealed nearly everybody wins, in Constructed not.

Poetic
06-23-2015, 05:28 AM
The turn off of the constructed one is definitely the 1 of matches as opposed to 3 games.

Even though I generally don't like sealed because pools are too luck based, its more appealing ATM.

aatttt
06-23-2015, 05:37 AM
Honestly, Constructed Gauntlet should be BO3 while Sealed is fine the way it is.

With Constructed, you really do need a sideboard to make sure some decks don't run rampant. That's what makes constructed competitive because you're not only up against a deck, but whatever metagame counters said opponent has placed.

With sealed it's less of an issue because everything is so random.

Besides, I think people who have spent the money on constructed decks probably have more 1 hr chunks to spare than people who want to occasionally play sealed.

They're two very different demographics.


+1

Thrawn
06-23-2015, 05:58 AM
If someone wants just one game of constructed, whenever they want, in a casual environment, isn't that what proving grounds already is?

darkwonders
06-23-2015, 06:10 AM
If someone wants just one game of constructed, whenever they want, in a casual environment, isn't that what proving grounds already is?

Yup.

Also, if you only play 1 game for Constructed Gauntlet, why are you locked into a deck + 15 card sideboard? You should be able to play any deck for all of your games.

Sideboards aren't meant to guess what deck you'll be playing once. They're meant to cover weaknesses that your deck may have to a certain type.

Axle
06-23-2015, 06:43 AM
This. I think we'll see a tonne of people playing gauntlet sealed, and I'm going to be one of them. Having bite sized competitive format (and yes I see it as competitive, even though it isn't Bo3) in sealed, where I can spend my own time crafting a deck and then do one match at a time at my own pace is an absolute dream. I'm sure there will be many more like me. I have already put in some fair $ to beloved HEX, but with this I'll be throwing money at it ;)

But I was talking about constructed =l. Sealed being bo1 isn't really a problem for anyone. Competitive PVP is the most dead format in HEX. Limited formats like Draft have many players, but comp PVP queues fire only a couple times a day and we now only have 1 major tournament a month.

Some thoughts:
- A competitive gauntlet would really help it. However having two entirely different metas with the single and the bo3 wouldn't as much. Decks that get destroyed by reserves do exist. These are specialized decks where in bo1 changing your main deck with dead cards "just in case you face them" won't really work. The meta between bo1 and comp tournaments will be different and it won't serve as easy practice for the comp players who only really get to play their deck for prizes once a month.

- It's nice that we have the 1v1 100p queue now but whether that fires will depend on if people think the payoff is worth it. At least you only need 1 other person to think it's worth it which is nice.

- While people who only want to play 15-30 minute games do exist, you're also alienating the rest of the constructed community by making this choice. Gauntlet is awesome, everyone wants it.

- Will the start of the 100k format make 8 man queues popular? Who knows.

Poetic
06-23-2015, 06:54 AM
It definitely will, just wonder if people would continue to play after they qualify or if it'll get harder due to less people playing as people qualify.

Tazelbain
06-23-2015, 07:31 AM
What about a compromise to that adding competitive Bo3 gauntlet with a clear warning take that its temporary and we'll get a one week notice when it goes away. So competitive players get something to chew on while Hex gets it competitive ducks in a row.

nicosharp
06-23-2015, 07:41 AM
HEX will continue to find Constructed Formats not as played as other modes.

Perhaps this point has not been driven in enough yet:
Players will find more value in obtaining something tangible for their collections when they play.
The bottom-line is that players paying platinum is what their real costs are associated with queues.

Paying 500 plat for a constructed queue vs. 200 plat and 6 packs.
500 plat lost vs. 200 plat lost and 6 packs worth of cards guaranteed.

Constructed needs more incentive outside of packs rewarded. I think there is still going to be a problem seeing these queues fire with the current reward structure, because the rat race wants tangible assets when sinking their hard earned $.

I would love to play constructed gauntlet, but even if I won, I would not open the packs won there. There are no tangible rewards for me playing this mode, and no way for me to truly build my playable collection.

superdax
06-23-2015, 08:11 AM
I would love to see extra rounds for perfect streaks (something like 6- 10,000 gold, 7- 20,000 gold, 8- 50,000 gold.. )

Tazelbain
06-23-2015, 08:12 AM
>I would love to play constructed gauntlet, but even if I won, I would not open the packs won there. There are no tangible rewards for me playing this mode, and no way for me to truly build my playable collection.

I don't get that. Does that mean that by the time you can profit competitive formats you already have a solid collection. Because I feel I have a solid collection, I still like winning packs to sell for plat towards a bank roll for Set 03.

nicosharp
06-23-2015, 08:23 AM
>I would love to play constructed gauntlet, but even if I won, I would not open the packs won there. There are no tangible rewards for me playing this mode, and no way for me to truly build my playable collection.

I don't get that. Does that mean that by the time you can profit competitive formats you already have a solid collection. Because I feel I have a solid collection, I still like winning packs to sell for plat towards a bank roll for Set 03.
The feature launches with Set3 - so, unless the majority of the community is set on just farming constructed lacking a set3 collection, you may have a hard time finding the constructed gauntlet firing off as much as you'd like it to.
This is exactly the point I am trying to make... If 90% of the community that pays to play, grinds for their collection through draft and sealed, because they actually can profit by opening packs there, the other 5-10% of the paying community that may have enough cards to play competitively, will be the only ones deciding if there is more profit in a constructed gauntlet, vs. the other modes of play... but accordingly to Yoss, the math shows that Sealed Gauntlet pays out better, and better yet, normal queues pay even better. You also don't do BO3 so that may turn off others.

I think there is a missing incentive piece to really make constructed take off. Gauntlet or not.

Axle
06-23-2015, 08:35 AM
Confidence is what we're missing. Not enough players thinking they're above the average. Obviously this wouldn't be realistic for everyone to be above the average, but that's not the point. You can lose some events but also win others and still profit. If we had more players with confidence the top heavy scheduled tournaments would fire...unfortunately everyone just wants safety nets for if they can only get 1 or 2 wins.

Vorpal
06-23-2015, 09:09 AM
bo1 for sealed is fine. If constructed is bo3, that is also fine.

All bo3 does for sealed is REALLY drive home who cracked the better packs :p

darkwonders
06-23-2015, 09:26 AM
BO3 on Sealed seems really unnecessary to me for Gauntlet. It is the most random of all the formats, and yes it really punishes people who don't get the best cards.

At least in Draft you can use denial drafting to keep bombs away from your opponents and actually have side answers based on what's been passed.

purpenflurb
06-23-2015, 04:25 PM
I actually think that sealed gauntlet is going to be one of the more lucrative formats. The big thing is time. In normal queues, you can spend a long time waiting. You can get through gauntlets much more quickly, and the payouts are pretty quickly profitable. And if hearthstone arena is anything to go by, good players should be able to get 5 wins almost every time. You may have to sell cards to go infinite, but you are effectively buying 6 packs for 200 plat.

Yoss
06-23-2015, 04:56 PM
...you are effectively buying and opening 6 packs for 200 plat.
FTFY. The fact that you must open them changes the value proposition a bit.

Jonesy
06-23-2015, 05:07 PM
Some of you guys are mistaken, constructed gauntlet isn't for casual players, it's for people who don't have 3+ hour chunks of available time and people who want to play NOW not sit in a queue waiting god knows how long to play. There is a difference. Yes Bo1 instead of Bo3 makes a difference, and yes it will have it's own meta if good, easily hated decks exist in the format, but that just makes it different, not casual.

Poetic
06-23-2015, 05:37 PM
It's not really a competitive format either as big tournaments, VIPs, and 8 man queues are BO3. You can't really prepare for the competitive meta if you're playing 1 ofs.

jonsnow2000
06-23-2015, 06:53 PM
About constructed: I just don't get why we are more than one year into the paid phase and there still is no 100P max tourney format for constructed. You want ppl aside from the hardcore PVP crowd to finally dip their toe into constructed? A 500P tourney where you have to win 3 games to make a slight profit is not the answer (regardless if you play BO1 or 3). Those who have been on the fence and didn't enter the current formats won't enter the gauntlets either for the same reason(s) - mainly fear of getting stomped by much better decks.

You can alleviate that fear in 2 ways - by leveling the playing field in terms of what cards can be used (Rock, Pauper) or by making the entry fee trivial. Sure, less entry fee means reduced payouts, but I would posit that as a good thing. The sharks wouldn't bother joining these queues (because it isn't worth their time) and everone else can just stop worrying about their profits, bring their fun decks and have a good time.

Mojumbo
06-23-2015, 07:58 PM
Cool. I like it :)

Bmon
06-23-2015, 08:01 PM
Kalassar the biggest issue with lowering the entry fee is that the rewards are booster packs, and boosters cost 200p minimum. This sets a high floor on the constructed entry fee unless HexEnt is willing to consider other types of prizes.

I know I've said this before, but I really want to reiterate that the BO1 constructed format seems to miss its target audience. I get you want to start with a quick, casual format in which case BO1 constructed matches make sense. It is just that the no-reserves format alienates constructed players, and the high 500p entry fee will scare away casual players. Booster packs costing 200p means you can't give them as prizes and charge a lower entry fee so you can't easily attract the casual constructed players to the format anyway. Why not just make it BO3 constructed so at least one side is happy? At least look at the data after a few weeks and if the constructed gauntlet numbers are low, please consider switching to a BO3 format. For me personally, I could play 1hr constructed gauntlets much more frequently than 3hr tournaments, but I will not touch a BO1 constructed format with at 10 foot pole.

Mejis
06-23-2015, 08:34 PM
Regarding constructed, what I'd like to see are some different formats. I'd be willing to go in to gauntlet constructed if there was e.g. a pauper format or rock format or similar. As is, my collection is still missing some staples that makes me feel I'm just not competitive enough deck-wise. (Sealed obviously eliminates this, which is why I'm so mega excited for sealed gauntlet).
Still, I'm keen to hear how gauntlet constructed fares in terms of participation once it is running.

Some alternatives for entry/prize (to get around the whole pack = 200p issue):
Award random card(s) from given pools? The higher you place, the more cards you win.
Have an additional gold entry and gold reward constructed gauntlet? I haven't given this any thought to consider if this would impact upon the PvE faucet(s) though.

I'm no economist, so I have no idea if any of the above would break the system, so please don't flame me if that's the case ;)

Yoss
06-23-2015, 09:08 PM
If you want lower cost, try elimination at 2 losses instead of 3 and pay out only 1 pack per win (no bonus for 5th win). Reduce fee to 300p. Price per pack would be 161.3p, which is still slightly worse than 8-man Constructed so it should be fine.


0,0
128

0,1 1,0
64 64

0,2 1,1 2,0
32 64 32
|
| 1,2 2,1 3,0
| 32 48 16
| |
| | 2,2 3,1 4,0
| | 24 32 8
| | |
| | | 3,2 4,1 5,0
| | | 16 20 4
| | | | |
| | | | 4,2 5,1 |
| | | | 10 10 |
| | | | | | |
| | | | | | |
| | | | | | |
| | | | | | |
V V V V V V V
32 32 24 16 10 10 4
0 1 2 3 4 5 5
0 32 48 48 40 50 20

Total packs out: 238
Prize packs per player: 1.859375
Fee: 300
Price per prize pack: 161.3445378

OutlandishMatt
06-23-2015, 09:16 PM
If you want lower cost, try elimination at 2 losses instead of 3 and pay out only 1 pack per win (no bonus for 5th win). Reduce fee to 300p. Price per pack would be 161.3p, which is still slightly worse than 8-man Constructed so it should be fine.

Get out of here, Math, no one wants you! ;-)

But seriously, 500 platinum entry just does not seem like a good price point for the format.

wolzarg
06-23-2015, 11:04 PM
I'm fairly sure the 100p entry 1v1 BO3 was up on the test server at one point but i could be wrong.

essif
06-24-2015, 12:10 AM
I'm fairly sure the 100p entry 1v1 BO3 was up on the test server at one point but i could be wrong.

I am 100% sure it was on the test server. I hope they didn't change their minds on that one.

jonsnow2000
06-24-2015, 04:39 AM
Kalassar the biggest issue with lowering the entry fee is that the rewards are booster packs, and boosters cost 200p minimum. This sets a high floor on the constructed entry fee unless HexEnt is willing to consider other types of prizes.


I don't see that as a big issue. You don't absolutely need to offer booster packs as rewards, or only booster packs. You can pay out lots of other useful stuff, like Dust for the Ea's, crafting materials, random cards, mercenarys, etc. As I explained, this wouldn't be a tourney where you necessarily expect huge payouts. You pay 100p, bring a deck you really like (instead of something you feel you have to play to be competitive) have some fun, get some experience, and if you do reasonably well, you get some small payout.

If they had something like this as their daily flagship event (8 PM CET for the euro crowd, then 6-8 hours later another one for the 'muricans) I would play it pretty much every day.

Warrender
06-24-2015, 05:11 AM
Confidence is what we're missing. Not enough players thinking they're above the average. Obviously this wouldn't be realistic for everyone to be above the average, but that's not the point. You can lose some events but also win others and still profit. If we had more players with confidence the top heavy scheduled tournaments would fire...unfortunately everyone just wants safety nets for if they can only get 1 or 2 wins.

Limited offers built-in safety nets in that you still keep the cards even if you don't win anything. I realize that the entry costs between Limited and Constructed are pretty similar from CZE's point of view. But from the player's, not so much.

Flairina
06-24-2015, 06:26 AM
Regarding constructed, what I'd like to see are some different formats. I'd be willing to go in to gauntlet constructed if there was e.g. a pauper format or rock format or similar. As is, my collection is still missing some staples that makes me feel I'm just not competitive enough deck-wise. (Sealed obviously eliminates this, which is why I'm so mega excited for sealed gauntlet).

Right. Most people don't have playsets of all the ultra-expensive cards, and that's what prevents a lot of people from even bothering to try constructed, since it's considered the territory of the people who do. I'm not stepping in there either unless something like the above idea is implemented; why would anyone deliberately throw themselves in to a lion's den unless they think themselves skilled enough to challenge one?

Axle
06-24-2015, 06:28 AM
The inexpensive Robot deck says hi while continuing to do well in tournaments.

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 07:25 AM
If I was Chark, I'd have entire Rock tier of inexpensive(50p - 200p) tournaments, gauntlets and a league that paid out in Rocks. Rocks would be redeemable for prizes include many Rock exclusives (PvE cards, AA commons, sleeves). This would be my gateway drug to the world of constructed PvP. No limited. Rocks would be untradable.

Basic example: Rock gauntlet pays out 1 rock per win costs 100p. AA corpse fly cost 20 Rocks. War machinist Sleeves cost 50 Rocks. PvP card Mini-Mega-Hulk mk III Home Edition* costs 30.

*Operating system not included. Please tunnel responsibly.

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 07:32 AM
The inexpensive Robot deck says hi while continuing to do well in tournaments.That is less expensive, but I wouldn't qualify it as inexpensive anymore. There are plenty of high quality games you can buy on steam for less than that deck.

Axle
06-24-2015, 07:42 AM
Maybe you shouldn't play card games if that is your logic for price. You don't even need to play Tetonic Megahulk to do well with it, considering it's a 2 max card and some players who top just omit it all together.

Thrawn
06-24-2015, 07:49 AM
A competitive pauper format drives up the prices of pauper staples and you end up making the game even more expensive to play.

Poetic
06-24-2015, 07:50 AM
TCGs are not easy to keep up with. The slow set releases has to be helping alot of people currently.

Edit: Thrawn is definitely correct.

Xenavire
06-24-2015, 08:02 AM
A competitive pauper format drives up the prices of pauper staples and you end up making the game even more expensive to play.

It does open up a new market though, as some 'useless' constructed commons become more playable. The price will rise on those too of course, but the jump won't be steep in all areas.

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 08:04 AM
Maybe you shouldn't play card games if that is your logic for price. You don't even need to play Tetonic Megahulk to do well with it, considering it's a 2 max card and some players who top just omit it all together.
Maybe your way at looking at things isn't the way everyone does.

Axle
06-24-2015, 08:06 AM
That is less expensive, but I wouldn't qualify it as inexpensive anymore. There are plenty of high quality games you can buy on steam for less than that deck.


Maybe your way at looking at things isn't the way everyone does.

"I can buy Dishonored for $5 on Steam so this deck is too expensive and not a cheap entry to constructed"

Hmm...who has the logic problem here?

Xenavire
06-24-2015, 08:09 AM
"I can buy Dishonored for $5 on Steam so this deck is too expensive and not a cheap entry to constructed"

Hmm...

Honestly, you should get both anyway. A good deck is always nice to have, and Dishonored is a great game. :D

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 08:28 AM
A competitive pauper format drives up the prices of pauper staples and you end up making the game even more expensive to play.We have seen this effect when the arena launched. Suddenly a boat load of commons and uncommon jumped from worthless to valuable. Its been a positive thing because it meant there was something engaging to do with them. And adding more engaging things to do with commons is net positive even it means a few chase commons have unusual prices.

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 08:35 AM
"I can buy Dishonored for $5 on Steam so this deck is too expensive and not a cheap entry to constructed"

Hmm...who has the logic problem here?You do. You are trying to apply logic to subjective situation like value of video games.

Axle
06-24-2015, 08:37 AM
You're the one who brought it up as something to factor the worth of a deck buddy. And you didn't speak of it personally for yourself, you spoke of it for the entire community by saying you wouldn't have me qualifying it as inexpensive because of this.

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 09:09 AM
Yes, I think there are significant number of people who are new to the game and look at spending $20 on Hex "just to try out" constructed see it as expensive. And one reasons it is because of the great games on steam they can buy for less. A good low-end format can help those people to see that $20 as reasonable.

Axle
06-24-2015, 09:17 AM
I was never talking about new players. That's what the free starter deck, Arena and tutorials exist for.

There's a difference between new players and the players who refuse to tip their toes into constructed. Which is a large portion of HEX players.

Tazelbain
06-24-2015, 09:29 AM
You were responding to a new player and they seam to think "free starter deck, Arena and tutorials" are inadequate to make the jump to constructed and I agree.

nicosharp
06-24-2015, 09:32 AM
There's a difference between new players and the players who refuse to tip their toes into constructed. Which is a large portion of HEX players.
This ^

I think I've already explained one of the major reasons why.
I could offer HEX ENT. suggestions, but it seems no matter what I come up with, they come up with something better. So, I'll let the masters, who get paid to do it, do it.

If they want Constructed to be a thing in any format, these are my suggestions:
#1 - Change the entry fee - let it be cheaper in "hard" plat than other queues (only factor plat for entry fee, as if packs have no value)
#2 - Change the reward structure - Constructed players don't "need" packs.
#3 - Offer variable formats - (mentioned above, rarity limitations/etc.)

I love Gauntlet, but will not be playing constructed gauntlet at all in it's current implementation, and many would consider me the ideal target for this mode. I am a "whale", have the cards, and enjoy constructed. I'm just not currently incentivized at all to play it.

poizonous
06-24-2015, 09:39 AM
Nico Im not sure I understand your argument about constructed players not needing packs. They cant hand out plat because that would reflect on gambling issues. New sets will always mean people need packs, so im not sure I see where you are coming from

Warrender
06-24-2015, 09:56 AM
Nico Im not sure I understand your argument about constructed players not needing packs. They cant hand out plat because that would reflect on gambling issues. New sets will always mean people need packs, so im not sure I see where you are coming from

How about a cheaper Constructed queue that rewards gold?

poizonous
06-24-2015, 09:59 AM
How about a cheaper Constructed queue that rewards gold?

Gold is never coming back to tournaments they have said this plenty. It is a PvE currency only and it should really stay that way unless they want to ruin Gold Prices.

Zophie
06-24-2015, 10:00 AM
Nico Im not sure I understand your argument about constructed players not needing packs. They cant hand out plat because that would reflect on gambling issues. New sets will always mean people need packs, so im not sure I see where you are coming from

I don't want to speak for Nico, but I don't think he means handing out plat as a reward, just not packs. Instead rewards could be things like AAs, or maybe even something like different rarity Chests as rewards depending on placement.

poizonous
06-24-2015, 10:08 AM
I don't want to speak for Nico, but I don't think he means handing out plat as a reward, just not packs. Instead rewards could be things like AAs, or maybe even something like different rarity Chests as rewards depending on placement.

Would you rather play a tournament that rewards chests??? Packs contain cards and Chests. I mean the AA thing is okay but I am a little annoyed with the amount of AA's in the game as they only ruin the non AA value of the card (outside of CMK and Extinction)

To me the best reward is simply packs, the primal chance alone makes it the best prize option

Zophie
06-24-2015, 10:13 AM
Would you rather play a tournament that rewards chests??? Packs contain cards and Chests. I mean the AA thing is okay but I am a little annoyed with the amount of AA's in the game as they only ruin the non AA value of the card (outside of CMK and Extinction)

To me the best reward is simply packs, the primal chance alone makes it the best prize option

Well I think the idea would be that instead of awarding packs and charging a higher entry free, they lower the fee significantly to just cover the chests instead. That way it might be more appealing for more casual/new players.

poizonous
06-24-2015, 10:18 AM
Well I think the idea would be that instead of awarding packs and charging a higher entry free, they lower the fee significantly to just cover the chests instead. That way it might be more appealing for more casual/new players.

I understand what you are saying but then what does that do to the competitive constructed players? We cant really afford to divide to constructed queues any more than they currently are as they rarely fire as it is.

I don't see a valid middle to make casuals happy and keep competitive players enticed to playing the queue. The truth of the matter is I fully understand that the casual player is the bigger side of the market lately, but you cant make a ESports scene out of competitive by making the competitive queue into a mode for casuals only

Zophie
06-24-2015, 10:21 AM
I understand what you are saying but then what does that do to the competitive constructed players? We cant really afford to divide to constructed queues any more than they currently are as they rarely fire as it is.

I don't see a valid middle to make casuals happy and keep competitive players enticed to playing the queue. The truth of the matter is I fully understand that the casual player is the bigger side of the market lately, but you cant make a ESports scene out of competitive by making the competitive queue into a mode for casuals only

I dont think anyone plans on making an ESports scene out of the Constructed Gauntlet. You gotta think differently about the Gauntlet, it's intended for a different audience. Sure it will still have competitive players. Those chests will have some good stuff inside that people will still want to go for, especially at the lower entry fee, but if you want bigger prizes and more competition you will be better served by the actual Cons/comp cons tournaments.

Barkam
06-24-2015, 10:23 AM
I understand what you are saying but then what does that do to the competitive constructed players? We cant really afford to divide to constructed queues any more than they currently are as they rarely fire as it is.

I don't see a valid middle to make casuals happy and keep competitive players enticed to playing the queue. The truth of the matter is I fully understand that the casual player is the bigger side of the market lately, but you cant make a ESports scene out of competitive by making the competitive queue into a mode for casuals only

By this logic, there can't be Esports for games like starcraft because their pvp games have no entry fee per match...

poizonous
06-24-2015, 10:26 AM
No Zophie you misunderstood me. The constructed queues are already not firing, with the inclusion of Gauntlet, the Competitive constructed queue may never fire again (Sadly). This is why I said that gauntlet becoming a mode for casuals would just even hurt the queue even more. If that happens, competitive constructed players have nowhere to go leading them to play the gauntlet with non competitive prizes, it just is a lose lose for them

Barkam, you cant compare a TCG to a RTS

Poetic
06-24-2015, 10:28 AM
It's going to take time, while the communy tournaments are awesome and those guys do an amazing job running them. People are getting to play for free and win stuff.

Doesn't help with the tournament queues, any serious play can just play test with their team and friends.

Once the plans for the 100k tournaments are in, and the player base grows enough to justify a "pro" type scene, people will get more interested.

People are just addicted to EV, and draft will always be better.

Kaiba_Graysoul
06-24-2015, 10:29 AM
The dilution argument has weight but the easier they make hex to get into the more people we will have, its a strategy of confidence from what I can see.

Zophie
06-24-2015, 10:31 AM
No Zophie you misunderstood me. The constructed queues are already not firing, with the inclusion of Gauntlet, the Competitive constructed queue may never fire again (Sadly). This is why I said that gauntlet becoming a mode for casuals would just even hurt the queue even more. If that happens, competitive constructed players have nowhere to go leading them to play the gauntlet with non competitive prizes, it just is a lose lose for them

You're making an assumption that at no point in the future will the number of concurrent players and frequency of constructed queues go up. Don't forget this game is growing and with some of the upcoming events and new feature releases we should be seeing a steady increase in our playerbase over time which will help with this greatly.

nicosharp
06-24-2015, 10:40 AM
I was not referring to plat as rewards at all.
My idea is simple - Give AA's - Give Constructed exclusive AA's. Make any constructed queue provide those AA's. Make the entry fee minimal - like 100plat. Still rewards packs - but make it very very low numbers based on the plat spent.

They could also reward other things I am not considering, like "Free Chest Spins" The rarity of the spin depends on how many wins you have. You would still need to acquire the chest to spin it, so it's essentially forcing you to use "Soft" gold on a chest.

And of course, finally, reward points/etc. for invites into end of the month/end of year tournaments / or simply ladder rankings.

For the things above, I would play constructed. As currently implemented now, I would not.

EntropyBall
06-24-2015, 10:47 AM
I think the Bo3 idea for constructed gauntlet makes a lot of sense, but I also think that CZE can just implement it as Bo1 first (since it sounds like its easier) and then try to make adjustments if the attendance is not high enough. I don't really play constructed though, since I don't have all the cards and prefer the more "level" playing field of limited.

Poetic
06-24-2015, 10:48 AM
And of course, finally, reward points/etc. for invites into end of the month/end of year tournaments / or simply ladder rankings.

For the things above, I would play constructed. As currently implemented now, I would not.

That's probably coming eventually, hopefully similar to MTGO's QP system.

Something to build towards monthly, maybe people who qualify get rewarded with a monthly AA.

I just hope the constructed queues receive more "points" than the limited queues to give an extra incentive. Draft will always be popular.

Barkam
06-24-2015, 11:38 AM
Barkam, you cant compare a TCG to a RTS

Why not? The only thing that makes something an Esports is large prize pools. Constructed queue tournaments even with only awarading first place is not Esports. Hex offering $100k is what makes it Esports.

AstaSyneri
06-24-2015, 12:05 PM
One of the reasons Constructed Gauntlet may not fire may be that the structure of our player community. If you look at the backers you'll find a lot of player with previous, sometimes very extensive, experience with TCGs. These are quite mature consumers, who know where a TCG can lead and act much more careful than they did 10 or 20 years ago.

The behavior described, where players enter the queues with (over-)confidence, would presumably be one where the average player is a lot.. younger ;-).

Axle
06-24-2015, 12:08 PM
So people who enter and travel to pro tournaments are young and inexperienced players? Because insulting players with confidence in themselves like you are is saying exactly that.

You admitted you don't care for PVP right now in the thread asking about dungeons, please don't try to find some crazy reason to justify constructed popularity just to make yourself feel better about your choices.