PDA

View Full Version : Leader board? Ranking System?



RanaDunes
06-20-2015, 05:15 AM
I'm wondering how come we are missing this relatively easy to implement feature which would retain a lot of players? It would give us a reason to login and play to improve our ranking. Maybe give a reward to the highest ranked players and reset the ladder every quarter or something.

This would be really healthy to the game's population. It would give us a chance to test decks and find a competitive game to play without the need to wait for a constructed queue. While a tournament is still going to be a better option for reward and challenge.

Are there plans for a ranked match play? I think it would also be neat if players were categorized into separate leagues of skill so newbies won't be stomped by experienced players.

Diesbudt
06-20-2015, 06:22 AM
There are plans, but in tournament form.

Understand it sounds easy to implement but it really isn't. Do you go by player, so no matter what deck they use it counts? Thus they can not bring fun decks I risking losing a few games testing it.

Or by deck, thus locking them into a position where they can't even edit one card otherwise the ranking starts from scratch?

And they probably wouldn't give out prizes for free outside maybe sleeves. Ranking would end up being top X get the right to join a tournament. But what if some can't make it on the specified date?

While it seems easy to just add a leaderboard. ( and it is just for fun only) for what they are trying to produce as a game that relays as much on pve as pvp with pvp prizes being from a monetary input from the players, it no longer is as easy.

RanaDunes
06-20-2015, 07:27 AM
There are plans, but in tournament form.

Understand it sounds easy to implement but it really isn't. Do you go by player, so no matter what deck they use it counts? Thus they can not bring fun decks I risking losing a few games testing it.

Or by deck, thus locking them into a position where they can't even edit one card otherwise the ranking starts from scratch?

And they probably wouldn't give out prizes for free outside maybe sleeves. Ranking would end up being top X get the right to join a tournament. But what if some can't make it on the specified date?

While it seems easy to just add a leaderboard. ( and it is just for fun only) for what they are trying to produce as a game that relays as much on pve as pvp with pvp prizes being from a monetary input from the players, it no longer is as easy.

Just like every other game with a ranking system. Decks don't matter. You play a game and if you win/lose your ranking changes accordingly. I think it make sense for a PvP game to have that and I think it would add a lot of incentive to play. Especially if you don't have enough time to play a tournament you can play a quick ranked PvP game (10-30 minutes).

incitfulmonk21
06-20-2015, 07:36 AM
The whole point of this game is not to be like other games. I would much more perfer not to be punished for having fun. I actually think its very odd for any GAME to punish people for having FUN.

Xenavire
06-20-2015, 07:44 AM
Just like every other game with a ranking system. Decks don't matter. You play a game and if you win/lose your ranking changes accordingly. I think it make sense for a PvP game to have that and I think it would add a lot of incentive to play. Especially if you don't have enough time to play a tournament you can play a quick ranked PvP game (10-30 minutes).

We would absolutely need an unranked play area. If I was serious about getting into high level play I wouldn't want to screw myself over by unwinding with a fun deck. And I don't like competitive stuff enough to commit to only that for the entirety of a season/year without stopping for some fun.

KingGabriel
06-20-2015, 07:58 AM
Not mentioned in the OP, but if there's going to be PvE leaderboards raid leader benefits should be turned off if you want to qualify for them.

AdamAoE2
06-20-2015, 08:10 AM
I am strongly in agreement that there needs to be some form of Ladder implemented. Tournaments are all great and have their place in the game, but ladders are such a huge part of many games these days. After finishing my playset of set 2, I have no reason to log into Hex anymore except to participate in the larger tournaments like the Blood Cup. A ladder would give players more incentive to play, even if the prizes are purely cosmetic.

I have friends that like Hex that still play Hearthstone purely for the Ladder - they simply don't see Hex as being a competitive game right now.

Yoss
06-20-2015, 08:44 AM
Gauntlet covers the "bite-sized" PvP. Tournaments will cover rankings and qualifier points.

I also agree with Post 6 about PvE.

israel.kendall
06-20-2015, 09:57 AM
Something like this is highly needed, and I'm not sure how we even got this far without it yet. There is zero meaningful free PvP in HEX, and we need something to do with all these cards and decks. Tired of pushing the PG random opponent button and sitting there half an hour without a matchup.

Barkam
06-20-2015, 11:00 AM
This is absolutely needed by the game. Just a ranked PvP leader board will go so far for the health of the game. The fact that PvP cards are required, it is not free even though there no entry fee.

asdf2000
06-20-2015, 01:12 PM
hey guys i know this is completely offtopic but i dont want to make my own thread
just a quick question because I haven't been around for a while
I see this test server for set 3. is the set 3 ETA very soon?

agree that a ladder is crucial btw

wolzarg
06-20-2015, 02:05 PM
I don't get why a ladder is so important?

asdf2000
06-20-2015, 02:10 PM
Well it's been discussed to death already why it's important, there's like a million posts about it on these forums.

wolzarg
06-20-2015, 02:30 PM
I still don't see the point so people want to see a arbitrary number go up. Take out a piece of paper and write down games played and your stats for the game.

israel.kendall
06-20-2015, 02:51 PM
I still don't see the point so people want to see a arbitrary number go up. Take out a piece of paper and write down games played and your stats for the game.

http://psychology.about.com/od/motivation/f/intrinsic-motivation.htm

DaethStaR
06-20-2015, 02:56 PM
I am sure they will have multiple queues for players. The only thing that needs to be ranked is tournament play. Casuals will have their own queues and such. Much like it is now.

If you want to play competitively, you will get a ranking. If you do not care about it, then it should not be an issue. IW had something similar. You could either play competitive or ranked. It was your choice. No one was forced to do one or the other.

The_Lannisters
06-20-2015, 05:06 PM
I still don't see the point so people want to see a arbitrary number go up. Take out a piece of paper and write down games played and your stats for the game.

Personally I'd like to play PVP decks in an environment that is challenging and does not cost me a penny. I'm happy spending P on drafts but they can get quite samey after a while. I'm not happy spending P in a constructed tournament cos I'm not confident enough.

A ladder would allow me to get better/more confident at constructed. Proving grounds is a JOKE.

Axle
06-20-2015, 05:13 PM
I still don't see the point so people want to see a arbitrary number go up. Take out a piece of paper and write down games played and your stats for the game.

But will I face better players as I win when I write my stats on that piece of paper?

israel.kendall
06-20-2015, 05:23 PM
But will I face better players as I win when I write my stats on that piece of paper?

We just post our papers to imgur for quality matchmaking, simple.

wolzarg
06-20-2015, 06:47 PM
Personally I'd like to play PVP decks in an environment that is challenging and does not cost me a penny. I'm happy spending P on drafts but they can get quite samey after a while. I'm not happy spending P in a constructed tournament cos I'm not confident enough.

A ladder would allow me to get better/more confident at constructed. Proving grounds is a JOKE.

Your experience in games may differ from mine but as far as im concerned you can very rarely get serious tournament practice when nothing is on the line. I really don't think a ladder would change that but if you feel that way keep pushing for it by all means.

Axle
06-20-2015, 07:05 PM
The problem is you're ignoring thousands of games that prove that your experiences aren't accurate. Including card games. The data is already there. If players don't play serious games in a ladder then they'll be knocked down by those who do, and eventually at the top you definitely will be playing serious competitive games.

asdf2000
06-20-2015, 08:20 PM
Your experience in games may differ from mine but as far as im concerned you can very rarely get serious tournament practice when nothing is on the line. I really don't think a ladder would change that but if you feel that way keep pushing for it by all means.

Well then your experience is very limited... even this games #1 online competitor has a very popular free ladder system. and while top pros might not use it exclusively like they used to, it still provides them with great practice. It also provides a great way for up and comers to "break through" and gain recognition.

A ranked ladder can also be a good system to provide a basis for invitation into other tournaments or events.

Chadatog
06-20-2015, 08:29 PM
while top pros might not use it exclusively like they used to

So the best players in Hearthstone have realized that the ladder system is a pointless grind, got it.

israel.kendall
06-20-2015, 08:39 PM
So the best players in Hearthstone have realized that the ladder system is a pointless grind, got it.

Well, I guess that is one step closer to the realization that the entire game of Hearthstone is a pointless grind. Baby steps. Despite this, I still would like a ladder in HEX.

asdf2000
06-20-2015, 08:54 PM
So the best players in Hearthstone have realized that the ladder system is a pointless grind, got it.

no, the fact that they are playing for a living has made them invest into systems that can offer more reward than the ladder.

meanwhile the other 99.999% of players still play the ladder because they are not on pro teams.


also what you said is just dumb. why is it a pointless grind compared to just, say, playing the game randomly? at least the ladder actually has a purpose. you know, some people just play games for fun - and some for competition - and a ladder offers both.

Oli
06-20-2015, 11:57 PM
I must say I really hate ladders, as I always feel I need to play the best deck with the best cards.
If I want to do some experiments with new deck ideas I feel like too much is on the line.
Even if there is a non-ladder-way to play I can't test competitive decks there as the decks played there are super-casual and I feel like I wasted my time.
I would say make it more easy to find an opponent that plays the same style (casual or competitive) and make a ladder only for tournaments.

Voormas
06-21-2015, 12:13 AM
I feel like when they introduce Guilds into the game that could help when people want to try out a risky deck archetype but don't want to play against casual decks (because those aren't the decks it would end up facing if it works out) - have a global ranking / ladder / whatever and an internal guild ranking / later / etc

The_Lannisters
06-21-2015, 02:54 AM
I must say I really hate ladders, as I always feel I need to play the best deck with the best cards.
If I want to do some experiments with new deck ideas I feel like too much is on the line.
Even if there is a non-ladder-way to play I can't test competitive decks there as the decks played there are super-casual and I feel like I wasted my time.
I would say make it more easy to find an opponent that plays the same style (casual or competitive) and make a ladder only for tournaments.

The idea is, they put a ladder in place, you can still play your messy decks in PG's if so you wish.

Poetic
06-21-2015, 04:36 AM
I'm down for limited ratings and constructed ratings via competitive queues and tournaments like MTG. If they still have that, think mtgo did away with it many years ago.

I wouldn't want a free ranking system with rewards as it'd take away from the tournaments and 8 mans. Player base isn't big enough ATM.

dbug
06-21-2015, 05:21 AM
I'm down for limited ratings and constructed ratings via competitive queues and tournaments like MTG. If they still have that, think mtgo did away with it many years ago.

I wouldn't want a free ranking system with rewards as it'd take away from the tournaments and 8 mans. Player base isn't big enough ATM.

I am very pro ladder. I would love to play more constructed in a ladder environment without have to pay and the above is the only real reason against a ladder atm.

But all the arguments "i dont like ladder because i want to play fun decks" is not an argument against a ladder. With or without a ladder, you can do that like you can right now.

dbug
06-21-2015, 05:24 AM
I would say make it more easy to find an opponent that plays the same style (casual or competitive) and make a ladder only for tournaments.

And one of this style would be a ladder

wolzarg
06-21-2015, 05:48 AM
Well then your experience is very limited... even this games #1 online competitor has a very popular free ladder system. and while top pros might not use it exclusively like they used to, it still provides them with great practice. It also provides a great way for up and comers to "break through" and gain recognition.

A ranked ladder can also be a good system to provide a basis for invitation into other tournaments or events.

I might be missing something but if you are talking about hearthstone saying a lot of people play ladder is pointless since you can either play ladder or casual. There are no real tournaments for random people in client so the options are so limited.

Invitations will be based on performance in actual tournaments and should never be based on ladder performance if there is an alternative.

The_Lannisters
06-22-2015, 03:51 PM
It'd be nice to, at least, get some comments from Cryptozoic on this subject.

Deathlock
06-22-2015, 05:15 PM
I think that ranking ladder system is absolutely needed in HEX. Sometimes I need more motivation to play a game or two...

Diesbudt
06-23-2015, 05:18 AM
My comments.

1) A ladder is needed. But it has to be separate of the proving grounds, and no prizes unless monetary input is a cost of the ladder. They are committed to not giving pvp stuff without some monetary input, as it influences the market. (Though sleeves or other non sellable things can be used

2) However the ladder will have to use some point system more than just W/L ratio because some players may get to a point and not find an opponent in their range of skill this they can still be matched up with much weaker/stronger players where an upset can really hurt/Help the players.

3) a limited matches per week needs to happen else people can get to the top and just sit, not really in the best mindset for competitiveness if one player can pull away early then just sit.

(Not as easy to build, reinforcing my original response)

That said, like real TCGs, the ladder shouldn't be used as a way to grab players into big monetary tournaments like that $100,000 one they announced. That will have to be based on tournaments on a point system however real TCGs do it.

The_Lannisters
06-23-2015, 02:09 PM
Well, with one new set every 8 months or so, something has to be done to sweeten the bitter pill ...