PDA

View Full Version : Stress Test Tournament Rankings 6/20/2015



Phenteo
06-22-2015, 06:44 PM
Hey HEXers!

We wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who participated in our Stress Test tournament over the weekend. This tournament was definitely a long one and we admire all the patience and perseverance that we saw. Thanks to your participation, the engineering team gathered a lot of great data which will definitely help for the launch of Armies of Myth and bring us closer to launching no-player-cap tournaments! We know these tests can be frustrating at times, but they are extremely beneficial for the development and launches of new content. This test went was very successful as large-scale tournaments have come to the point where they can conclude— a momentous occasion. Even though the servers were shut down during the Top 2 finals (this was a staff communication accident, not a software failure), we are very happy with the progression of the tournament. We do know many players experienced issues either due to bugs or load balancing from the test server (the test server has significantly lower specs than the live servers) but everyone pushed through to help the team test and many new bugs were found.

With that out of the way, we can move on to the prizes! As a token of our gratitude EVERYONE who participated in the tournament on the Test Server will receive an Armies of Myth booster pack when the set launches. And, if you're interested, we listed the top 256 players from the tournament with their prizes. You can see the rankings here (https://www.hextcg.com/large-scale-stress-test-tournament-standings-6202015/). The prizing payout in the rankings table has been changed to factor in the participation prize. Prizes will be inserted into accounts after the launch of Armies of Myth!

Once again, thank you very much from everyone here at HEX. We have an amazing community and this test really shows that!

wolzarg
06-22-2015, 06:53 PM
Very generous as always good going hex and for anyone commenting on the fact that the top 8 got a lot lets face it they played for friking 13 rounds bugs or not. Would i also have done it if i was in a position to do so sure... but i wasn't so i caved around round 8 when it was completely unplayable.

Mahes
06-22-2015, 06:55 PM
Thank you

Fyren
06-22-2015, 06:55 PM
+1 pack for participation is entirely reasonable. Thanks much for it. ^.^

Here's still hoping for flaming hamster sleeves for the next one!

Incindium
06-22-2015, 07:02 PM
How were these standing figured? They don't match what the in game was showing... For example Mokag got ninth according to the client... he has a screenshot on Twitter. I also looked after it was over and it was reporting that I'd gotten 31st(I think) with my 7-3 record.

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 07:03 PM
Hey HEXers!

We wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who participated in our Stress Test tournament over the weekend. This tournament was definitely a long one and we admire all the patience and perseverance that we saw. Thanks to your participation, the engineering team gathered a lot of great data which will definitely help for the launch of Armies of Myth and bring us closer to launching no-player-cap tournaments! We know these tests can be frustrating at times, but they are extremely beneficial for the development and launches of new content. This test went was very successful as large-scale tournaments have come to the point where they can conclude— a momentous occasion. Even though the servers were shut down during the Top 2 finals (this was a staff communication accident, not a software failure), we are very happy with the progression of the tournament. We do know many players experienced issues either due to bugs or load balancing from the test server (the test server has significantly lower specs than the live servers) but everyone pushed through to help the team test and many new bugs were found.

With that out of the way, we can move on to the prizes! As a token of our gratitude EVERYONE who participated in the tournament on the Test Server will receive an Armies of Myth booster pack when the set launches. And, if you're interested, we listed the top 256 players from the tournament with their prizes. You can see the rankings here (https://www.hextcg.com/large-scale-stress-test-tournament-standings-6202015/). The prizing payout in the rankings table has been changed to factor in the participation prize. Prizes will be inserted into accounts after the launch of Armies of Myth!

Once again, thank you very much from everyone here at HEX. We have an amazing community and this test really shows that!

Gotta say, I'm pretty disappointed.
Some people receiving ~$100 of prizes, and some people receiving ~$2, purely based on whether they were lucky enough to have the server and client let them into their games? Once it was realised that half the players couldn't even connect, the prize structure should have been replaced with just simply giving everyone a sealed gauntlet entry to kickstart the new set.

As it stands, people that showed up, hit enter then logged off receive the same compensation as I received the for my 4+ hours of utter frustration prior to giving up in despair. There's people who have AFK'd their way to 5+ wins and multiple times the reward of others who slogged the entire 10 hours for zero wins due to never actually being allowed to join a game. Handing out prizes based on rankings in a tournament of pure luck is ridiculous.

Eetabee
06-22-2015, 07:05 PM
How do the tiebreaks work? The in game end of tournament message said I was 23rd but here I'm listed at 16th. Just wondering why there is a difference.

Mike411
06-22-2015, 07:06 PM
I guess it doesn't matter if you picked a different account name for the test server?

MasterN64
06-22-2015, 07:12 PM
I guess it doesn't matter if you picked a different account name for the test server?

I wouldnt see why as it uses your account login info and not your display name.

Gwaer
06-22-2015, 07:14 PM
Sealed was the perfect format for a thing like this. Sealed pools are incredibly random as is. The server screwing up is just another layer of variance. I got 3 packs I think for over 12 hours of sitting in front of a computer, but that was a decision I made going in. I knew it wouldn't be worth it from a $ per hour standpoint, even if I tied for second it wouldn't be worth it. So congrats to people who got a huge payout. It was well deserved.

Shadowflame
06-22-2015, 07:20 PM
How were these standing figured? They don't match what the in game was showing... For example Mokag got ninth according to the client... he has a screenshot on Twitter. I also looked after it was over and it was reporting that I'd gotten 31st(I think) with my 7-3 record.

You should be happy. I got 8-2, but I was ranked lower than you somehow. I guess they never bothered adding in the last match I played.

Phenteo
06-22-2015, 07:21 PM
Gotta say, I'm pretty disappointed.
I'm very sorry you feel that way. But these are tests. You're not doing it for the prizes but rather to help test the game to report bugs.


purely based on whether they were lucky enough to have the server and client let them into their games?
This statement is completely wrong. Yes, connection/client not hanging was a factor, but not purely based on. I understand you're frustrated but no need to throw out incorrect information to prove your point.

You're not required to participate in these tests. If hitting issues is a concern then you're welcome to abstain from future tests. We're still very extremely appreciative of everyone who helped to participate. Yes, we give out rewards, but the main focus is on helping to make the best experience as possible when it goes live.

Phenteo
06-22-2015, 07:24 PM
How were these standing figured? They don't match what the in game was showing... For example Mokag got ninth according to the client... he has a screenshot on Twitter. I also looked after it was over and it was reporting that I'd gotten 31st(I think) with my 7-3 record.

The rankings displayed in client were most likely showing false information. The rankings we have listed on the site are parsed from the tournament data we received.

MasterN64
06-22-2015, 07:24 PM
Cant say that any better. The rewards are just an incentive. The real reason to show up is to help the development of the game and anything extra is just gravy on top of that.

I probably would have stayed even if we didnt get any rewards for it.

BTW i placed #49

Incindium
06-22-2015, 07:32 PM
The rankings displayed in client were most likely showing false information. The rankings we have listed on the site are parsed from the tournament data we received.

Hey so another bug to add to all the other ones found via the test server :)

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 07:36 PM
I'm very sorry you feel that way. But these are tests. You're not doing it for the prizes but rather to help test the game to report bugs.
Agreed, and I was happy to spend my time testing back in alpha without any rewards offered. But, IF you're offering rewards, they need to be appropriate to the setting. A tournament where the rewards are essentially randomly handed out is silly; the reward structure simply isn't appropriate to how the day panned out.


This statement is completely wrong. Yes, connection/client not hanging was a factor, but not purely based on. I understand you're frustrated but no need to throw out incorrect information to prove your point. Ok then, if my exaggeration offended you, take out the word "Purely" replace it with "Almost entirely" and you have a statement you can't argue with. The connection/client not hanging was the MAJOR factor. By far. Rewarding based on that luck is ridiculous.

x78089
06-22-2015, 07:43 PM
Agreed, and I was happy to spend my time testing back in alpha without any rewards offered. But, IF you're offering rewards, they need to be appropriate to the setting. A tournament where the rewards are essentially randomly handed out is silly; the reward structure simply isn't appropriate to how the day panned out.

Ok then, if my exaggeration offended you, take out the word "Purely" replace it with "Almost entirely" and you have a statement you can't argue with. The connection/client not hanging was the MAJOR factor. By far. Rewarding based on that luck is ridiculous.

You might be right, except for the fact that the majority of the players who ranked in the top 32 are perennially winning tournaments. There is a reason they continue to win and it has very little to do with luck. You got compensated for showing up for a test. Be happy they decided to give you anything.

LookAtMyHooves
06-22-2015, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the opertunity to help test and, although I was fortunate, I hope next time all of us get to play all of our games. 10 rounds then a draft was a lot of hex for one sitting though :-D

Nero_Jinous
06-22-2015, 07:53 PM
I'll be converting all 51 of my AoM packs into draft packs(3 AoM 100plat) for 17 draft packs total to giveaway during the 2015 charity stream.

nicosharp
06-22-2015, 07:55 PM
I'll be converting all 51 of my AoM packs into draft packs(3 AoM 100plat) for 17 draft packs total to giveaway during the 2015 charity stream.
You sir, are a beast. (in the most awesome of senses)

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 08:04 PM
You might be right, except for the fact that the majority of the players who ranked in the top 32 are perennially winning tournaments.

Irrelevant... If half the best players got 0 wins due to client/server issues, and the other half placed in the top 32, it still shows you that the reward format was inappropriate for the test. They could've used this as an opportunity to get people invested in the new set with a free draft or gauntlet run to keep their mind on Hex instead of mtg:Origins. Instead they're just annoying those less invested.

I understand their team is much more focused on actual game design than it is on infrastructure or programming or business/marketing, but it is frustrating. I'm not being a crybaby because I don't like the game. I think it is great, and I want to see it succeed, which is why I'm putting the effort in to explain what I shouldn't need to explain; and why it is all the more frustrating to see how seemingly little thought is put into some of these things.


I'll be converting all 51 of my AoM packs into draft packs(3 AoM 100plat) for 17 draft packs total to giveaway during the 2015 charity stream.
Good form!

chromus
06-22-2015, 08:17 PM
Great to hear you're making good progress. Date of the next Test Server to further test Set 3/Big tournaments? Or are we getting the Set 3 release first? What's next?

IronPheasant
06-22-2015, 08:27 PM
I'm not being a crybaby because I don't like the game. I think it is great, and I want to see it succeed, which is why I'm putting the effort in to explain what I shouldn't need to explain; and why it is all the more frustrating to see how seemingly little thought is put into some of these things.

There's no reason to make a scene. You're not the only one disappointed, but that's life. You make a bad call, learn from your mistake, and don't repeat it next time. Next time you feel like you're performing an unpaid internship, walk the hell away.

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 08:40 PM
There's no reason to make a scene. You're not the only one disappointed, but that's life. You make a bad call, learn from your mistake, and don't repeat it next time. Next time you feel like you're performing an unpaid internship, walk the hell away.

Staying quiet and just not attending next time doesn't help HEX though. They have a chance to rectify any negative feelings now, or if not, at least learn from them for next time. They can't do that if the annoyed people don't explain what they're annoyed about.

IronPheasant
06-22-2015, 09:07 PM
I assure you, my pantaloons have been thoroughly rustled off all the way to some tree in Florida, to see less compensation from going through a nightmarish hell than I saw for logging on for 18 minutes in the last stress test.

It's never so cut and dry from their perspective. Granting a sealed gauntlet ticket like you've suggested incentivizes such sperginess in the future. Is that really something you want to do, have people make themselves miserable because of the possibility of :currency: ? And then they'd get it in the other ear from the sexy smart people who knew better to skip this one.

From the perspective of humanity in general, a 13 hour tournament was a bad idea. A reward structure that gives out less the more people there are who participate was a bad idea. Now we know, and knowing can save your sandwiches. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1BDM1oBRJ8)

fitzle
06-22-2015, 09:24 PM
That was a long day, and frustrating at times! I am very happy to hear it was a successful test for the team. Thanks for rewarding the testers, you folks are very generous!

asdf2000
06-22-2015, 09:29 PM
Irrelevant... If half the best players got 0 wins due to client/server issues, and the other half placed in the top 32, it still shows you that the reward format was inappropriate for the test. They could've used this as an opportunity to get people invested in the new set with a free draft or gauntlet run to keep their mind on Hex instead of mtg:Origins. Instead they're just annoying those less invested.

I understand their team is much more focused on actual game design than it is on infrastructure or programming or business/marketing, but it is frustrating. I'm not being a crybaby because I don't like the game. I think it is great, and I want to see it succeed, which is why I'm putting the effort in to explain what I shouldn't need to explain; and why it is all the more frustrating to see how seemingly little thought is put into some of these things.


Good form!


oh did you pay to enter this tournament?

it was my understanding it was a free tournament on a stress test server

it's funny because this stuff has happened before except it's normally not an entirely free tournament, that even had disclaimers beforehand that there would likely be problems.

how anyone can feel so entitled as to think they deserve something beyond the planned free prizes (even if it comes down to luck on whether or not you get there) is beyond me

x78089
06-22-2015, 09:43 PM
Irrelevant... If half the best players got 0 wins due to client/server issues, and the other half placed in the top 32, it still shows you that the reward format was inappropriate for the test. They could've used this as an opportunity to get people invested in the new set with a free draft or gauntlet run to keep their mind on Hex instead of mtg:Origins. Instead they're just annoying those less invested.

I understand their team is much more focused on actual game design than it is on infrastructure or programming or business/marketing, but it is frustrating. I'm not being a crybaby because I don't like the game. I think it is great, and I want to see it succeed, which is why I'm putting the effort in to explain what I shouldn't need to explain; and why it is all the more frustrating to see how seemingly little thought is put into some of these things.


Good form!

You are missing the point. You made an unsubstantiated claim and I provided counter evidence. You then countered my counter by making another unsubstantiated claim. Bottom line, it was a stress test. The goal was to break the test server and provide useful data to the developers. Mission accomplished, and we made it further than we have ever before. Nobody forced you to participate and there was no guarantee of anyone's ability to compete.

Cernz
06-22-2015, 09:47 PM
set3 packs yay thanks :)

Halsey
06-22-2015, 10:02 PM
I'll be converting all 51 of my AoM packs into draft packs(3 AoM 100plat) for 17 draft packs total to giveaway during the 2015 charity stream.

After the first few matches, most of my games kind of blur together, but I'm pretty sure you took out my BloodLegends.dec at one point. Glad to see it getting paid forward :-}

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 10:06 PM
You are missing the point. You made an unsubstantiated claim and I provided counter evidence. You then countered my counter by making another unsubstantiated claim. Bottom line, it was a stress test. The goal was to break the test server and provide useful data to the developers. Mission accomplished, and we made it further than we have ever before. Nobody forced you to participate and there was no guarantee of anyone's ability to compete.
I'm really not. Even if you sourced your evidence, and it was true, it still holds no weight, because it doesn't take into account all the players with proven track records that COULDN'T play their games. If the goal was to break the server, the reward system was a poor fit; that's all I'm saying. Again, this isn't me QQ'ing about getting 1 pack instead of 50 or something ridiculous. I did plenty of testing in alpha without reward. My problem is that handling it in this way ACTIVELY DISCOURAGES players from bothering to help with any more large scale testing.

israel.kendall
06-22-2015, 10:14 PM
I think these prizes have made people take this stress test way too seriously, as can be seen in this thread.

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 10:41 PM
I think these prizes have made people take this stress test way too seriously, as can be seen in this thread.

Yep. Once you change it from "Hey help us stress test and we'll give you some token stuff (or just let you see set3) for your time." into "Here's a tournament with free entry and big prizes for the winners", you're gonna annoy people. Most people that're annoyed won't bother posting to help out the dev's though... they'll just change their behavior.

It doesn't matter what the disclaimers are. It matters what the customers take away from the event (speaking psychologically here, not literally). Again, not trying to denounce the game, and not bitching and moaning for the sake of it, just trying to offer some insight.

dochound
06-22-2015, 10:47 PM
For me was a funny time in the tournament a lot people online at same time waiting every round and making a good time in chat, sorry for the people was having bugs o something like that i was have it too but this normal in this type of servers we join for help,
,, just grats to all people stays until the end and for the winnners too ofc ^^

Yoss
06-22-2015, 10:48 PM
As someone who ranted pretty hard against how a prior stress test was handled, I can say I'm a bit surprised to see such angst this time around. Everything went pretty much exactly as was advertised, with no secrecy or insults from the devs (which is what annoyed me so much that other time). All things considered, I'd say this one was handled very well by the HXE team. :)

purehybrid
06-22-2015, 11:23 PM
As someone who ranted pretty hard against how a prior stress test was handled, I can say I'm a bit surprised to see such angst this time around. Everything went pretty much exactly as was advertised, with no secrecy or insults from the devs (which is what annoyed me so much that other time). All things considered, I'd say this one was handled very well by the HXE team. :)

...and if everyone had the opportunity, like you did, to play almost the entire tournament without issues, I'd have no reason to open my mouth. But they didn't... and telling people they got "losses" and didn't rank, simply because they weren't allowed to connect will turn people away. The last thing hex can afford right now, with origins around the corner, is to turn anyone away.

Salverus
06-22-2015, 11:28 PM
went 3/2 at least, other matches I do not know, still not in top 256 wow...
ah well, thanks for the free pack, my first set3 pack, I will cherish it :)

magic_gazz
06-22-2015, 11:44 PM
We all knew what we were getting into when we signed up for a "stress test tournament".

If you were expecting to not encounter bugs in a stress test, I don't know what to tell you.

Don't look at as X hours for y packs, look at it as some packs for $0.

Fyren
06-22-2015, 11:45 PM
I think these prizes have made people take this stress test way too seriously, as can be seen in this thread.

On consideration, I think I agree with this statement. While I'm happy with what I received - hell, I'm ecstatic I didn't choke on my own deck, odd thing that it was - I can understand the frustration. In fact, the closer you actually were to the top, the more your frustration might be understandable.

I went 8-2. At no point did a bug cost me a match. If a bug had caused me to go 7-3, that would have cost me a pack, maybe 2. It happens. If a bug had been the cause of one of my two losses or had terminated a run at 7-0 or 8-0, then that bug, rather than shard failure or my own incompetence, would have robbed me of at least 10 packs, which would have been quite frustrating; you write angry tickets to support over less than that. I can see how encouraging people to shoot for the top would lead people to forget that this was, ideally, a stupid potentially bug-riddled marathon endurance challenge for fun and testing.

If you wanted to reward performance, some fixed ratio of packs to wins (1:1, 2:3, 1:2) would probably have chafed fewer spuds/eggs, and kept people who lost early around longer. If that was the data they were aiming for.



You might be right, except for the fact that the majority of the players who ranked in the top 32 are perennially winning tournaments. There is a reason they continue to win and it has very little to do with luck.

Really? Yeesh. I consider it a high honor/sign of Kismet's momentary favor to be sharing the same landmass, even in a bug-laden environment.

Dashgoor
06-22-2015, 11:46 PM
Hi there

For me the tournament was a good success for HEX, we are for sure some steps further compared to all other stress tournaments. After some rounds I faced the same problems as many others, to autolose first game because disconnect from client server (relogging after round did not help). So I stopped after 7 rounds, but it was still fun.

Just one wish for next stress tournament: the starting time was too late, only designed for US players. As living in Europe, this means I will never finish such a tournament except I dont sleep for the whole night.

For sure there is no starting time that fits for everyone, but I guess just starting the tournament 4-5 hours earlier would get the whole european market online, and US people could still participate (ok its early for west coast, but still ok I guess)

Greetings

Cernz
06-23-2015, 12:04 AM
i agree with dashgoor, it was way to late for european players, went to bed @ 8 am - after my wife + kids get up @ 7 am :D ... summary: the queen was not amused! ;)

Flairina
06-23-2015, 04:53 AM
I appreciate that everyone at least gets a pack, but I really would have preferred if the reward for trying to slog through the morass of bugs that was this test was something worth more than 200 platinum, like the repeatedly mentioned sleeve idea, or just some exclusive junk card related to the test. Packs are too easily bought for me to get terribly excited about it, and when a lot of us spent most of the day on this, even when it repeatedly froze and at points actually crashed the computer...

Ah well. At least it's something. More than was initially expected I suppose, so I can't complain too much.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 06:03 AM
I must have missed the part where we were all coerced to help out in test. Or, that we didn't know what the prize structure was ahead of time. Or, that it wasn't reasonable to expect that there would be problems with a test tournament or for the PDT developers of the game to test at times that are convenient for PDT.

So much unwarranted salt and complaining... :(

Reeplay
06-23-2015, 06:11 AM
I'm fine with what I got but I understand what other people are complaining about in the reward system. It rewarded the players who happened to not get hit by bugs as much as others in a tournament where bugs were to be expected.
Really for a stress test tournament the prize structure would of been better suited to being awarded based on number of rounds played because with the prize structure used some people effectively put in 10 hours with several bugs to earn a single pack.
Really there is no necessity to even offer prizes in a tournament like this but some people put in a whole day (or night in europeans case) to earn very little compare to others and that will always leave a bad taste in peoples mouths

Xenavire
06-23-2015, 06:16 AM
I must have missed the part where we were all coerced to help out in test. Or, that we didn't know what the prize structure was ahead of time. Or, that it wasn't reasonable to expect that there would be problems with a test tournament or for the PDT developers of the game to test at times that are convenient for PDT.

So much unwarranted salt and complaining... :(

To be fair, I wasn't keen on the prize structure even before the stress test. I joined because I wanted to help, but as time went on I felt worse about the fact that people were spending so much time with nothing to show for it.

I like that everyone is getting something, I just wish that had been the plan from the get-go. Would have made the whole thing a little more bearable. And keep in mind, I do plenty voluntarily, and even I got worn out from the 10 hour event.

Eetabee
06-23-2015, 06:23 AM
Everyone gets a better future game because of the time they put in Saturday/Sunday. That is the best prize of all.

poizonous
06-23-2015, 06:24 AM
I just suppose this comes down to the argument of "Why is someone else's time worth more than mine" There is arguably no way to defend that the top 8 EARNED their way there. I felt that when they seen the bugginess of the tournament that the original prize pool should have went out the window ( I also felt that way when they first announced the prize pool). Nero is a stand up guy and doing a nice thing with his prizes, but that still dont change my opinion that a fairer solution would have been to give everyone who stayed the duration of the tournament a draft pack.

plaguedealer
06-23-2015, 06:30 AM
I dont have a problem with how things went. The number of rounds were clearly discussed before the tournament. Nothing stopped anyone from dropping if they had one or two loses. Kind of surprised there is this much constranation. At the very least, I got to participate in a free tournament.

vickrpg
06-23-2015, 06:36 AM
First off, I want to thank CZE for beign generous and providing everyone with a free pack, this is awesome and absolutely the right call. Then, Grats to the devs! I've been through all the stress tests so far, and actually finishing the tournament is massive! Thanks for all your hard work.

And awesome for the people who will use the packs to give back to the community. You guys are pillars that keep the community great.

But then I've got to say, despite the attitude and whining above, they have a point. The prize structure for this stress test was WAAAY off. It was disconnected from the point of the stress test and causes people to take it too seriously, rewards players for the wrong reasons, and as people have pointed out, it is terrible marketing. But I'm not saying this because of how many packs I got or just to throw negativity around, and I don't think anyone else in this thread is either. So for next time, I have a suggestion for reward structure:

If the tournament is a stress test, then reward players not on performance, but on rounds played.
1 pack for participation.
+1 pack for every 3 rounds you stay in the tournament.
+1 pack(or a sleeve) for staying till the end.


This incentivizes players to participate in the stress test! Not rewards them for leaving once they're sure they can't win.
The prize structure used for this last one practically asks for people to complain about why they couldn't win, bugs, and to just take it too seriously. a top heavy prize structure is great for stable environments, but TERRIBLE for a stress test. I hope people can understand that these are valid critiques and we all have the same goal, to make Hex better.

Full disclosure: I didn't place, I got one pack only, and I'm happy to get just that. I played and won my first game. then my opponent DCed so I went 2/0 R1. The second round came up, I was DCed. I relogged, the second match up of round 2 came up, again i was DCed. The third round came up, I was DCed. I relogged the second matchup of round 3 came up, I DCed. I relogged. Round 4 came up, I DCed, left the Tournament and stated testing bugs vs the AI instead. in 4 rounds I played my deck once, for one match, and didn't think my in a queue waiting to DisConnect was helping hex nor my sanity. I would have gladly stayed, prizes or not, if I had actually gotten to play any games, but I would have definitely also stayed had there been any incentive to make it to the end at all.

Kami
06-23-2015, 06:39 AM
The way I would've set this up would be:

1. Everyone who participates gets 2 packs (roughly equivalent to what would've been given anyway in total).
2. Everyone who stays until the end gets an exclusive sleeve (cosmetic). Remember, the goal is to get people to stay until the end, not just to get people to join and quit. If they are already out of the running for Top 8 where the prizes all were, they do not have a lot of reason to stay unless they are there to help out. At worst, they'll AFK and still put some load on the server during the matchings.

The fact is, in either case, you will have people who join and then drop. However, this negates the "Why is someone else's time worth more than mine?" argument.

Elwinz
06-23-2015, 06:39 AM
Poeple are complaining lie it would be 100,000$ torunament. NOt a free stress test.

Staying to the end is way too hard for poeple outside of US time zones ... The blood cup times were much better for that

jonsnow2000
06-23-2015, 06:41 AM
I'm pretty sure that HexEnt could have promised 1 pack for every participant and 1 pack for every 2 rounds you stay afterwards (regardless of placing) and the turnout would have been the same or not much lower.

With that said, I'm super happy that this test was such a huge step forward - it feels like there are only minor adjustments needed on the engineering side so we can finally have large scale tourneys on the live server!

If possible, I'd like to see another article from the main engineer (forgot the name) responsible for the tournament coding like we got last time. How far are we from optimal stability?

Malicus
06-23-2015, 06:41 AM
We play a TCG where the other guy can open $60 worth of cards and we get junk rares - luck is a skill :P.

Personally I really wanted to participate in the tournament but my body doesn't understand trying to go to sleep before 2am so getting up at 5:30am on a Sunday proved to be unattainable for me and I missed the start by 10 minutes. Really appreciate all the people who put in the work to test it though.

szimek
06-23-2015, 06:43 AM
I must have missed the part where we were all coerced to help out in test. Or, that we didn't know what the prize structure was ahead of time. Or, that it wasn't reasonable to expect that there would be problems with a test tournament or for the PDT developers of the game to test at times that are convenient for PDT.


+1

We all knew everything from the beginning, no one lied to us, prize pool was known. We even got more than we were said we will get.

and yes: I'm from Europe and played all 10 rounds (6:00AM HYPE!), i've lost more games because of bugs, than i've won due to them and i still can't see logical reason to be mad or salty. I knew what i was doing, no one forced me. I could drop from tournament in any moment, but i didn't. If i would like to blame anyone i would have to blame myself. But i don't. and i sleep better because of that :P

plaguedealer
06-23-2015, 06:55 AM
I am bad at math but if they gave 2 packs for every second round played (or something similar), then they would have given out maybe four times more packs then what they did. The prize pool was fine, it was a free tournament.

Kami
06-23-2015, 07:04 AM
I must have missed the part where we were all coerced to help out in test.

So much unwarranted salt and complaining...

I disagree with this in its entirety. I would've helped out regardless of prizing structure (proven by the fact I stayed until main tournament completion - i.e. Round 10; and the fact I don't need packs at all). Coercion had nothing to do with it. Yes, people could've abstained - but then what would've been the point of a stress test? Let's say only 200 people joined, then what? Would it really help the stress test more?

Now that people have gotten a taste of what a grueling stress test is like, you think you'll achieve the same number of testers next time? Doubtful.

To add: You think everyone joined only because they wanted to help? I'm probably the minority. The majority probably joined because of the chance of prizes. My point is that this will backfire for the next time around.

The problem is the mindset behind awarding prizes with this structure to begin with for a stress test. Because for those who stayed to help, it's a bit of a slap in the face. Somehow others who stayed to help just as long deserve more? Not to mention you could be automatically put out of Top 8 if you are unlucky via bugs/glitches.

That's where this 'salt and complaining' is coming from and yes, it is warranted.

Frankly, I don't care for the prizes myself because it won't affect me. 50 packs, 100 packs, 1000packs... I don't need'em. But I do want to address the problem with this type of structure for a stress test.

The dismissal of this issue is unwarranted.

Xzaron
06-23-2015, 07:42 AM
I really agree with Kami on this. I don't personally care about the overall prize structure because I was there to help. However I lost at least 2 games just from client bugs not letting me back in the game which would have put me out of the top whatever.

Giving everyone 1 pack is a great thought but imo having the super skewed prize structure on something i would think most people expected to be buggy and games not to finish is kinda strange.

While i believe quite a few people did show up just to help test especially for future tests peoples if you want people to show up peoples time really has to be considered. i.e. if i was to play on the live servers and done the arena for the same amount of time i could have farmed a full draft pack.

nicosharp
06-23-2015, 07:52 AM
It's not so much the fact that it was a test and we were helping, as it was a waste of time providing the commitment to help them for the duration they wanted us to test for.

I agree, they need to match prizes to the time-commitment, even if it's just a test.

I don't even see the draw of a tournament that requires this much time devotion... Wouldn't it be better to have a bunch of smaller cues for placement into a "top queue" tournament? Anyways, if this is the future of large-scale tournaments, its going to be hard to cater to competitive players with other real-world commitments. (Wait, I forgot, those types of people can't coexist.)

plaguedealer
06-23-2015, 07:58 AM
The main complaint I am seeing is the prize structure for such a lengthy tournament. It was clear how many rounds it would take including the fact that you probably would just get 2 packs. It was clear this was on a test server and there would be problems. Everyone got to participate in a free tournament and could drop with little reprocussions (unless you were 6-0 or something).

nicosharp
06-23-2015, 08:04 AM
The main complaint I am seeing is the prize structure for such a lengthy tournament. It was clear how many rounds it would take including the fact that you probably would just get 2 packs. It was clear this was on a test server and there would be problems. Everyone got to participate in a free tournament and could drop with little reprocussions (unless you were 6-0 or something).

Most players went Idle - I would not be surprised if several got top 256 as AFK's. I think they wanted to be sure it was working for the duration, so some people stuck it out for the duration.
I don't think many people had the expectation of winning more than 1 or 2 packs based on the tournament structure, even if they stayed the duration, but its no joke that if they spent that time farming Arena for free on the live server, they would have easily made 5x provided the same time commitment.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 08:05 AM
The bottom line is that folks knew the parameters well BEFORE the tournament started. If folks didn't like it, they could have abstained. If enough folks abstained, HEX might have needed to try another reward structure. Everyone has that same choice next time. I'd bet money that more than enough folks will show up anyway.


Most players went Idle - I would not be surprised if several got top 256 as AFK's. I think they wanted to be sure it was working for the duration, so some people stuck it out for the duration.
I don't think many people had the expectation of winning more than 1 or 2 packs based on the tournament structure, even if they stayed the duration, but its no joke that if they spent that time farming Arena for free on the live server, they would have easily made 5x provided the same time commitment.

So, farm the Arena on live then? ;) Everyone has free will...

plaguedealer
06-23-2015, 08:07 AM
I was actually playing drafts in live and also playing in the stress test.

nicosharp
06-23-2015, 08:15 AM
I was actually playing drafts in live and also playing in the stress test.
I guess that is the way to do it! I'm not bitter about the test. I'm giving another Lens into it. Some folks, myself included, spent a lot of time trying to reconnect to matches that were ultimately afk. We all knew what the structure was going in. I have to agree with others though, outside of helping them test, it was a large waste of time, and may be more discouraging to hop on and do in the future, mainly because of the resources it required from my PC, and how it slowed down my ability to do things on the side... I only own 1 PC, and the game on test was a resource hog.

Xzaron
06-23-2015, 08:15 AM
I can attest I won at least 2 while being at my computer not playing because my opponent didn't connect to the game. It would not surprise me if by sheer luck someone in the 750+ people won 6+ games because no opponent showed up.

It surely has more of a chance of happening than two of my games my opponent playing born of the flame and only getting set 3 drops on top of that BOTH times he played born of the flame he got a walking calamity......

Xzaron
06-23-2015, 08:20 AM
@Colin thats kinda a rough way to think about it. Telling people they could have abstained of course is the truth but a lot of people im not sure knew what they were in for. I personally was expecting bugs but not 80% coin flip on my end to whether or not I could connect to the game. I think a lot of us merely are just giving feedback on how another test of this magnitude might turn out. While I am all for helping out and testing im not sure I could do another 8+ hour marathon test.

As Kami suggested I was expecting a full crash rather than the randomness on getting into a game or not.

Saeijou
06-23-2015, 08:21 AM
well... i started the tourney, but after two rounds i just quit... it was no fun...
sure, 50 packs seem nice... but not worth 10 hours of what was going on...

instead of complaining, the people should know what they want...

Kami
06-23-2015, 08:21 AM
The bottom line is that folks knew the parameters well BEFORE the tournament started. If folks didn't like it, they could have abstained. If enough folks abstained, HEX might have needed to try another reward structure. Everyone has that same choice next time.

Agreed. However, this is the first stress test that has been this grueling. I'd wager the majority thought it would either not fire or it would fail shortly after as it did in the past resulting in a time deficit of a couple hours or so at most. Combine that with the chance of free prizes or generous compensation in case of failure, the expectation people had did not match reality.

As I said, this is a non-issue for this tournament, I don't expect them to change the structure - in fact, they already gave a pack for everyone who participated. Going forward is another story, now that people know how bad a stress test can be... I'm not as optimistic as you about the goodwill of others. :stormcloud:

Kramer
06-23-2015, 08:39 AM
Although I did not make the Top 256 since I could only play in 2 games and won both by opponent AFK, I was glad to help and happy about my 1 free pack. Wish it wasn't so buggy that kept booting me out, but hopefully with everyones help we can get closer to flawless large tournaments, like the KS Pro Player Tournament.

Raith
06-23-2015, 09:19 AM
All the stress tests have been frustrating in some aspect. I was happy to help and even got my wife to play even though the time commitment was much larger than previous tourneys. We both made it all 10 rounds playing about 6 matches each. She was actually 8-1 and played Nero in round 10. And in 2 out 3 games she had no hand and couldn't play. That was the difference between top 8 and top 20 or so. No big deal really since she won several rounds due to bugs.

What I can honestly say is that her pool of cards was decent but not really top 8 worthy. If everyone could have played bug free, it would have just changed the lucky top 8 from less bugged players to those with dream sealed pools. Getting to top 8 in a sealed tournament definitely requires some luck one way or another on the way through 10 rounds.

The positive outcome of the tourney actually reaching the end is a big step forward from previous stress tests. Hopefully, this test will allow them to work out the rest of the kinks and we will all have a better game going forward.

Elwinz
06-23-2015, 09:50 AM
As playing streess test and doing something in the same time, it was pretty rough becasue rame usage was heavy and both clients were getting not responding. I actualy tried to playt arena on live and tournament at once. but it was too troublesome.

Zophie
06-23-2015, 10:20 AM
I was late getting into the test due to internet connection issues, so I knew I wouldn't get any participation prizes, but I still spent whatever time I could to help keep morale up in general chat with many silly jokes and bad puns. Entertaining others is enough of a reward for me, I am not disappointed. :)

Eredyn
06-23-2015, 10:29 AM
I would have helped for free so the prize situation doesn't bother me at all.

Having said that, I know this isn't true for everyone. The only reason many came was down to the large prize on offer. This probably meant they dropped as soon as they lost a second game.

Since the point of the stress test is to keep as many people playing as possible, I'd have to agree the best way to handle this in future would be to tie a reward to the number of rounds someone sticks around for. The ultimate objective is to maintain as many people in the test as possible, and some just won't do that without a personal incentive.

I had fun though, despite the technical hitches. :)

EDIT: wanted to add that I think large events like this really need to start earlier. Starting in US Pacific time means that everyone other than Pacific residents had a pretty late night, even US Central and Easterners. It's better to give Pacific residents an early start than to make the Europeans stay up until the stupid hours just to help test.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 10:36 AM
Since the point of the stress test is to keep as many people playing as possible, I'd have to agree the best way to handle this in future would be to tie a reward to the number of rounds someone sticks around for. The ultimate objective is to maintain as many people in the test as possible, and some just won't do that without a personal incentive.

You can't reward that either. Folks will leave their client logged in, not actually do anything, and claim that there was some reason (bug) that they couldn't interact with the game if there's any hint they wouldn't get their "payout".

There is no perfect solution. Folks needs to help out because they want to help out, and maybe there is a side effect of winning some product. The problem is that there is a sizable constituency that views this all backwards - that it's a way to get free stuff and the testing is a side effect - that is not the case.

Eredyn
06-23-2015, 10:45 AM
You can't reward that either. Folks will leave their client logged in, not actually do anything, and claim that there was some reason (bug) that they couldn't interact with the game if there's any hint they wouldn't get their "payout".

That means they're still logged in stressing the server. It's better than them not being there at all.

Raith
06-23-2015, 10:47 AM
Not everyone has to stick around the whole tournament. In any large tournament with prizes weighted to the top X% of places, a lot of people will drop when they feel they no longer have a chance to place. People may have dropped sooner in the stress test than normal due to bugs, but it was probably still a decent simulation of an actual tourney with that prize setup.

Veetor
06-23-2015, 10:54 AM
How about 1 pack for every 2 wins... (or some such thing) keeps you in and trying to win, sure you may have lost the last 6 games, but you might win the next 2... and then some token prize for top 8, like 4 extra packs... who knows.

That would have certainly kept me playing slogging through the test.

dogmod
06-23-2015, 11:03 AM
You can't reward that either. Folks will leave their client logged in, not actually do anything, and claim that there was some reason (bug) that they couldn't interact with the game if there's any hint they wouldn't get their "payout".

There is no perfect solution. Folks needs to help out because they want to help out, and maybe there is a side effect of winning some product. The problem is that there is a sizable constituency that views this all backwards - that it's a way to get free stuff and the testing is a side effect - that is not the case.

Many people here care about the game. Perhaps not many quite as much as you.

The attitude that we should all help out from some pureness deep in our hearts is a bit naive I think. While we are all behind CZE because they are the indie developer trying to make good on a dream which many of us kickstarted and we want that dream to come true, at a certain point CZE can abuse that good will too much.

There is history of american (and maybe not american) companies using volunteers to accomplish for profit work. Beta testing games treads that line. The more onerous the demands are and the less rewarding or fun the testing is the more it falls on to the side of people doing a job for a company that the company has just found a way to not pay people for.

incitfulmonk21
06-23-2015, 11:14 AM
They have gone above and beyond being generous every occasion they can get. Honestly why people can't return the favor is confusing. I am sorry for people who saw it as a pack grab and not as a chance to help develop the game.

Kind of happy they didn't get what they wanted though because at least next time HXE asks us to help people will join to you know actually HELP rather then complain that they aren't getting enough!

IronPheasant
06-23-2015, 11:21 AM
I felt that when they seen the bugginess of the tournament that the original prize pool should have went out the window

They can't do that. When they say they'll do something, they have to ken as close to that as possible, even if it comes out deeply flawed in the end.


Remember, the goal is to get people to stay until the end, not just to get people to join and quit.

As I mentioned earlier, incentivizing people to make themselves miserable is maybe not ideal. I joined to play and because they asked, stayed only because of my own self destructive sunk-cost fallacy sperginess. In retrospect I'd feel a thousand times better about that day if I'd just dropped and played sealed gauntlet when the madness began.

A lesson is learned.

Xzaron
06-23-2015, 11:23 AM
Kind of happy they didn't get what they wanted though because at least next time HXE asks us to help people will join to you know actually HELP rather then complain that they aren't getting enough!

We wont know until it happens but that point right there is what lots of us are saying. We don't think people will show up to the next stress test. Only time will tell and I would definitely do it again but we will see.

incitfulmonk21
06-23-2015, 11:51 AM
We wont know until it happens but that point right there is what lots of us are saying. We don't think people will show up to the next stress test. Only time will tell and I would definitely do it again but we will see.

I disagree most of the community will in fact still show because luckily most of the community wants HEX to be incredibly successful. The only people who won't are those that feel they were not rewarded enough for their time and that's perfectly fine. People should join for the purpose of the test not because they want lot's of swag for their time.

Flairina
06-23-2015, 12:47 PM
I disagree most of the community will in fact still show because luckily most of the community wants HEX to be incredibly successful. The only people who won't are those that feel they were not rewarded enough for their time and that's perfectly fine. People should join for the purpose of the test not because they want lot's of swag for their time.

I don't really think the complaints were because people want a lot of swag for their time- if the tournament had played out without bugs, I don't think there would be nearly as much frustration. I mean, obviously bugs were expected, but I don't think people expected it to continue when a great majority were unable to even PLAY in it. The free pack is little consolation when ten hours of computer hell were spent trying to make it work, during which nothing else could really be done because the client was taking up all resources (or crashing the computer). People feel it's unfair that the winners essentially got all those packs by doing very little besides being lucky enough to not experience huge bugs/freezing, and that they wasted their time since they weren't even to PLAY for the majority of the test. It's a mix of the large chunk of wasted time despite best efforts AND the "unfairness" factor- otherwise this would just be people pitching a fit over losing a tournament, which no one would be supporting.

mauPa
06-23-2015, 12:48 PM
I'm happy that my participation can possibly help the development of the game that i love so much...i won't lie about my participation motives, though:

I enjoy doing other stuff on saturday evenings/nights as well, espescially when having in mind that those test tourneys can be pretty stressful at some times (instead of providing the usual fun playing Hex). That's why prices have always been an additional factor for me when participating in past (and probably future) stress tourneys.

I'd never complain about the price structure being unfair, though...we aren't forced to participate and all of us should know about the "risk" that bugs might appear. I'm pretty happy how HXE has handled things so far. They are/were always generous and i'm really grateful for it. I personally consider the "bigger" prices as door prices...some get lucky...others don't. This time i was "more" lucky than others, but it happened to be different in the past as well. Still i'm grateful for all the compensations in the past tourneys.

To keep it short: Less QQ (even if you think you're not qq'ing)...if you don't like the giveaway structure, think of it as random giveaways with an even higher chance if you "luck-survived" the first rounds. :p


People feel it's unfair that the winners essentially got all those packs by doing very little besides being lucky enough to not experience huge bugs/freezing, and that they wasted their time since they weren't even ever able to reconnect with their client and TRY to play.
Btw. don't forget that most of the Top8 had issues as well and still won the games they were able to play. Not saying there was no luck...i had lots of it (just auto losing 1 round not being able to get out of stuck lobby and getting some free wins).

P.S.: @Nero/@Cernz: How have you been able to 'beat'/'lose with' that insane mono wild deck with Moss and Briggadon?! :rolleyes:

incitfulmonk21
06-23-2015, 12:56 PM
I don't really think the complaints were because people want a lot of swag for their time- if the tournament had played out without bugs, I don't think there would be nearly as much frustration. The problem is that a lot of people didn't even get to PLAY the tournament, and the free pack is little consolation when ten hours of computer hell were spent trying to make it work, during which nothing else could really be done on them because the client was taking up all resources (or crashing the computer). People feel it's unfair that the winners essentially got all those packs by doing very little besides being lucky enough to not experience huge bugs/freezing, and that they wasted their time since they weren't even to PLAY for the majority of the test. It's a mix of the large chunk of wasted time despite best efforts AND the "unfairness" factor- otherwise this would just be people pitching a fit over losing a tournament, which no one would be supporting.

So people are upset that they experienced bugs doing an event solely designed to find and detect bugs. From the people I have talked some matches were won and loss because of bugs but certainly not all of them. I am sorry you don't think things were fair or that you didn't have fun but blaming them on bugs at an event designed to have, find, and collect data on them seems a bit odd.

At least next time you know that you might not want to join a lets find the bugs event if you are going to get upset that bugs are going to play a role in what happens during the event! Rejoice you never have to help again!

Cernz
06-23-2015, 01:41 PM
I'm happy that my participation can possibly help the development of the game that i love so much...i won't lie about my participation motives, though:

I enjoy doing other stuff on saturday evenings/nights as well, espescially when having in mind that those test tourneys can be pretty stressful at some times (instead of providing the usual fun playing Hex). That's why prices have always been an additional factor for me when participating in past (and probably future) stress tourneys.

I'd never complain about the price structure being unfair, though...we aren't forced to participate and all of us should know about the "risk" that bugs might appear. I'm pretty happy how HXE has handled things so far. They are/were always generous and i'm really grateful for it. I personally consider the "bigger" prices as door prices...some get lucky...others don't. This time i was "more" lucky than others, but it happened to be different in the past as well. Still i'm grateful for all the compensations in the past tourneys.

To keep it short: Less QQ (even if you think you're not qq'ing)...if you don't like the giveaway structure, think of it as random giveaways with an even higher chance if you "luck-survived" the first rounds. :p


Btw. don't forget that most of the Top8 had issues as well and still won the games they were able to play. Not saying there was no luck...i had lots of it (just auto losing 1 round not being able to get out of stuck lobby and getting some free wins).

P.S.: @Nero/@Cernz: How have you been able to 'beat'/'lose with' that insane mono wild deck with Moss and Briggadon?! :rolleyes:

Well i did not have a single removal :) lost 1 game due to a cutblood and the other game he was to fast and removed all of my early stuff. :(

Fyren
06-23-2015, 01:44 PM
So people are upset that they experienced bugs doing an event solely designed to find and detect bugs. From the people I have talked some matches were won and loss because of bugs but certainly not all of them. I am sorry you don't think things were fair or that you didn't have fun but blaming them on bugs at an event designed to have, find, and collect data on them seems a bit odd.

Nonono, you've missed the point. The core of the reasonable complaint is not that there were bugs in an event designed to detect bugs. You're correct that that would be stupid to complain about - so given that us Hexers are generally intelligent people, I believe it's not the complaint. The issue seems to be a heavily performance-oriented and very top-heavy prize structure in a long, grueling marathon event where a glitch could be the difference between you winning $100 worth of packs and you winning $10.

If you'd had no rewards at all, this thread monolith would not be here, but participation would have been lower and there would be less data generated. If you'd had a fixed 2-pack reward or a draft ticket, plus a cosmetic for playing all 10 rounds like Kami suggested (and which I liked), this thread monolith would not be here. The prize structure encouraged a competitive, reward-seeking mentality at direct odds with a desirable attitude for a test.

Let me posit a scenario: You go in, intending to help with the stress test with pure motives, but plan to stick it out as long as you can stand it - maybe 5 rounds. You're not really there for the packs, you tell yourself. And initually, you aren't. Suddenly, however, you realize you're 5-0 after a few good wins and an AFK or two, and you begin to start hoping that maybe, you can actually pull those 16-50 packs. You keep going, despite increasing exhaustion, and your reason for being there morphs from your charity to your prize... and make it to 7-1, and then a glitch kills a round and kicks you out of the top 8.

All that time you spent beyond what you intended feels like a waste.

I don't know about you, but I'd have been pretty salty about that had that happened to me.



At least next time you know that you might not want to join a lets find the bugs event if you are going to get upset that bugs are going to play a role in what happens during the event! Rejoice you never have to help again!

That's true. But that's the problem and the reason any of this is a remotely valid concern. If too many people feel cheated by the system, people won't help in future events and stress tests will generate less data.

Now granted, I think the test also includes player reactions to the prize structure and time commitment, so I believe that they'll learn from this and plan the next one accordingly.

magic_gazz
06-23-2015, 01:56 PM
You know one of the guys that won 51 packs is giving them all away right? Couldn't possibly be more fair than that.

So what are you really complaining about?

If you just missed on on top 8 due to bugs, you are not considering the fact that you only got that far due to luck and your luck ran out at the end.

What if you hadn't lost to bugs but to a better deck (that your opponent might have had, you just didn't see it). Would you complain then? Isnt them having a better deck in sealed luck too?

Cernz
06-23-2015, 02:03 PM
the tournament was great :) but if it would have started 2-3 hours earlier with 8-9 rounds of sealed + draft finals it would have been nuts ;) (prices aside, it was fun to play and talk with ppl in chat and on streams who love this game.... had a great time with shownsi, scyfang, yvel and many others who were as crazy as me to stay up that long)

Fyren
06-23-2015, 02:09 PM
You know one of the guys that won 51 packs is giving them all away right? Couldn't possibly be more fair than that.

So what are you really complaining about?

That the top-heavy prize structure in a potentially bug-riddled high-variance event with a substantial time investment was counterproductive to the magnanimous, we-want-to-make-Hex-better attitude that we should have had going in, and that a more participation-oriented structure would have generated the correct atmosphere.

Again, I'll state that I had fun, and that I do not regret my time there. But I am sympathetic to where the complaints are coming from.



If you just missed on on top 8 due to bugs, you are not considering the fact that you only got that far due to luck and your luck ran out at the end.

It wasn't all luck, certainly. But the variance was higher than usual and knowing that, a top-heavy prize structure conducive to a competitive atmosphere may have been a suboptimal choice.



What if you hadn't lost to bugs but to a better deck (that your opponent might have had, you just didn't see it). Would you complain then? Isnt them having a better deck in sealed luck too?

It is! But all sources of luck aren't the same, either in magnitude or from a psychological standpoint. TCGs have variance, but skill plays a factor as well - skill in your choices of what to do with that card pool, skill in your plays on the table; and a little variance isn't the same as turning the game into a coinflip. Some sources of randomness you absolutely accept going into a TCG. Some are, harder to swallow.

Flairina
06-23-2015, 03:15 PM
So people are upset that they experienced bugs doing an event solely designed to find and detect bugs. From the people I have talked some matches were won and loss because of bugs but certainly not all of them. I am sorry you don't think things were fair or that you didn't have fun but blaming them on bugs at an event designed to have, find, and collect data on them seems a bit odd.

At least next time you know that you might not want to join a lets find the bugs event if you are going to get upset that bugs are going to play a role in what happens during the event! Rejoice you never have to help again!

Woah, hey, no need to be nasty. I'm not particularly upset since I stopped trying after about 4 hours, after my computer went down twice and my client wouldn't even function. I was just trying to explain why people are upset at all. Please note I'm not saying the tournament was expected to be free of bugs, I'm saying that the fact that a tournament this broken still gave away prizes to people who simply lucked in to not getting bugged to the moon is what's making people upset. I didn't say I'm not going to try to help in the future either, though if it's as dangerous to my system as this one was then I'll probably bow out earlier next time.

Think I'll stop posting on this board. Too much vitriol for me; I wasn't even personally complaining.

IronPheasant
06-23-2015, 04:47 PM
lost 1 game due to a cutblood

Woo, I saw one of those, too! The debate to spider-stab it to death immediately only took me 9 seconds to resolve.

wolzarg
06-23-2015, 05:17 PM
They have gone above and beyond being generous every occasion they can get. Honestly why people can't return the favor is confusing. I am sorry for people who saw it as a pack grab and not as a chance to help develop the game.

Kind of happy they didn't get what they wanted though because at least next time HXE asks us to help people will join to you know actually HELP rather then complain that they aren't getting enough!
Here is the thing i would have been there even if there were no prizes, honestly. But when they putt a bunch of top heavy prizes on a client that is very very bugged it gets scewed. Becuase the only reward for quite a big time investment is now pack. someone at rank 500(Hypothetically) play 10 rounds all bug out he get nothing. While some other guy who won 8 out of 10 matches to bugs. gets 50 packs.(Hypothetical person) By that point you have one person getting infinity or 50 times the reward for the same time.

That is my problem with that prizing system. If its fair to assume things will bug that hard its wrong to have a top heavy prize pool. I'm still happy with my 2 or what ever i ended up with because i feel my time was appreciated and i will give them to people who are less fortunate than me. But the fact that i would participate in ever stress test i can for free or not or if i care about the packs doesn't take away my right to have an oppinion on the prize structure.

N3rd4Christ
06-23-2015, 11:17 PM
Geez, people complaining about free stuff... It was free, we all knew it was a stress test. If you expected smooth sailing you are one of Baby Yeti's Victims!

Phenteo
06-23-2015, 11:44 PM
Discussion doesn't seem to be progressing anymore. Closing thread.

Thank you everyone for your feedback! We will definitely talk about this for future tests.