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Sparrow
06-23-2015, 12:03 AM
Don't know if this has been suggested yet -- assume it has because it's really obvious, but thought I'd post just in case.

Arena PvP

Player #1 enters the Arena as normal
Player #2 plays the enemy deck in each round.

Gold awards each round to the winner. No equipment gains for either player (or you could award them, either way). Players are not eliminated for 3 losses (or, alternatively, they could be, but without equipment being awarded I see no reason to eliminate them). Bonus gold awarded under various circumstances.

Since the difficulty of this would be much, much higher than Arena currently provides, the gold rewards should be higher. X2 is my first arbitrary suggestion, though it would be easy to come up with a number of more interesting payout schedules.

This would be an awesome way to see these Arena decks played the way they were meant to be played instead of with the lobotomized AI we currently have. It would be a lot of fun and would breath a lot of life into Arena, making it effectively a brand new experience for everyone with much more replay value.

The only downside is players could cheat the system by cooperating, but that's already happening now in drafts and no one cares so this would be even less egregious. Perhaps each player would have to put up a gold stake each round with bonus gold being awarded by the system above and beyond what players bring to the table. Or not. Lot of options here.

EDIT: Exploitable issue addressed in post #21

Undomiel
06-23-2015, 04:50 AM
If you like to do things like that you can probably set them up yourself with a friend by imitating the arena decks and then playing in the proving ground. I don't see it becoming a supported feature for two reasons:
- Two human players makes it very easy to exploit the system to farm gold
- So far, HEX has not offered tournament formats where cards were provided to you for free, not even temporarily.

Guess that's why it's a TCG - you want a card to play with, you got to pay for it first. It's the one thing that annoys me most, but then I am a MMO player by heart, not a TCG player. ;)

ryuukan
06-23-2015, 05:07 AM
aka Gwaer's Wild West Cowboy Arena

located next to Gwaer's Coyotle Steakhouse, where the buffalo are fresh and frozen

NoahBuddy
06-23-2015, 05:18 AM
I thought that was chris wood's job. Doesn't he play all the opponent decks in arena? ��:p

Fred
06-23-2015, 06:27 AM
If you like to do things like that you can probably set them up yourself with a friend by imitating the arena decks and then playing in the proving ground.

Please tell me how I can imitate Xarlox' deck in the proving grounds...

vickrpg
06-23-2015, 07:05 AM
The biggest problem I see with this is that it is extremely exploitable, as someone pointed out. I would solve this by keeping the rewards consistent with arena gold drops, but actually requiring X gold to participate in this mode. That would create a new gold sync along with the new play mode.
But as Undomiel said, we have never had the ability to play with cards we don't own, even temporarily, and I don't think such a feature is announced. So it is unlikely that this would be considered seriously.

I personally would rather just see a mode where we can pvp with equipment, and possibly have a random arena passive power active. (for both players, in the case of boss powers)

poizonous
06-23-2015, 07:24 AM
But as Undomiel said, we have never had the ability to play with cards we don't own, even temporarily, and I don't think such a feature is announced. So it is unlikely that this would be considered seriously.

I heard there was a guild feature where you could loan a deck to a guild member, not entirely the same thing but I know it was talked about with the guild features

vickrpg
06-23-2015, 07:27 AM
I heard there was a guild feature where you could loan a deck to a guild member, not entirely the same thing but I know it was talked about with the guild features

That's still someone paying for it. and technically, you can do that right now. I can send you 60 cards, you play with them, then you send them back.


There are no ways to play with cards temporarily generated by the system that aren't payed for.

plaguedealer
06-23-2015, 07:28 AM
I think the idea would be awesome. One day we are suppose to have a loan card feature. Cory was talking about having players be a raid boss, the main problem they had is collusion.

Undomiel
06-23-2015, 08:30 AM
Please tell me how I can imitate Xarlox' deck in the proving grounds...

I think with the new set 3 vennen you can give it a good shot. :)

Vorpal
06-23-2015, 09:10 AM
Any competent player should be able to destroy with the overpowered cards and charge powers in the AI decks. The AI isn't as good as a human player, and you know their deck going in, so they need much stronger cards and charge powers to make the arena challenging.

Graydeath
06-23-2015, 10:24 AM
It would be bettere a special event, a 8 player turnamente in wich everyone got to play with one of the arena deck and champion chosed at random

Tazelbain
06-23-2015, 10:39 AM
I could see special dungeon or dungeon mode that has a few nodes in a dungeon path require ardent and underworld players to battle each other to continue.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 10:41 AM
I could see special dungeon or dungeon mode that has a few nodes in a dungeon path require ardent and underworld players to battle each other to continue.

What happens at times when no Ardent or no Underworld players are online? :(

I guarantee we'll never see PVE content gated by the availability of other players (other than needing 3 folks for a raid).

ossuary
06-23-2015, 10:51 AM
Even then, weren't we told at one point that you could ATTEMPT a raid with fewer than 3 players, you just shouldn't expect to have any chance in hell of actually winning? Or have those plans changed since last discussed (he says, fishing)? :)

Tazelbain
06-23-2015, 11:24 AM
What happens at times when no Ardent or no Underworld players are online? :(

I guarantee we'll never see PVE content gated by the availability of other players (other than needing 3 folks for a raid).
If they wait too long, either you force them fight AI instead or let them choose an alternate path instead depending on needs of the story.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 11:34 AM
If they wait too long, either you force them fight AI instead or let them choose an alternate path instead depending on needs of the story.

Then people complain about "progression" and not having a consistent experience and having to wait and a hundred other things... :(

poizonous
06-23-2015, 11:44 AM
Then people complain about "progression" and not having a consistent experience and having to wait and a hundred other things... :(

Without complaints, think about all the complaint departments that would not be needed. Millions of people could lose their jobs Kappa

Tazelbain
06-23-2015, 11:46 AM
Then people complain about "progression" and not having a consistent experience and having to wait and a hundred other things... :(People always complain. MMOs aren't a business you get into you don't want to hear complaints.

Anyway they should try it out in the Frost Arena. You can fight Xarlox or another player; your choice.

Barkam
06-23-2015, 12:11 PM
While an interesting proposition, this will have to be absolutely at the bottom of the priority list for HXE.

Sparrow
06-23-2015, 01:06 PM
As far as it being exploitable goes, like I said in my OP players could bring their own gold.

It would work something like this. Cost of entry 10,000 gold per player, putting 20,000 gold in the pot. Each win awards 1000 gold. The game itself could kick down some extra gold in certain situations, but it's not needed for this to work. Hogarth could even take a rake for himself, making this a gold sink.

Entry amount could be tweaked or made customizable. Gold awards could be tweaked as well. Not seeing a downside beyond time to program. I think the upside is Hex would be creating a feature/format that will be incredibly popular to play and a potential gold sink. It's also an awesome way to blend PvP and PVE aspects of the game.

LNQ
06-23-2015, 01:18 PM
Skipped right to the end to reply after skimming through the first post. Hearthstone has the tavern brawl format where you play with a premade "boss" deck with special rules.

It would be very much fun to have an occasional chance to play with a special boss deck against another boss deck like that in Hex.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 01:26 PM
It would be very much fun to have an occasional chance to play with a special boss deck against another boss deck like that in Hex.

Come to GenCon! :)

Mejis
06-23-2015, 02:10 PM
Come to GenCon! :)

Colin, whilst you're here ... ;) ... do you happen to know if any major AI changes are coming with the Set 3 patch? Or are these things that are trickling away and being updated in the background all the time?
Not heard much about the AI for a while.

hex_colin
06-23-2015, 02:12 PM
Colin, whilst you're here ... ;) ... do you happen to know if any major AI changes are coming with the Set 3 patch? Or are these things that are trickling away and being updated in the background all the time?
Not heard much about the AI for a while.

Not sure about specifically with the next major patch, but definitely after that. :)

Mejis
06-23-2015, 02:14 PM
Not sure about specifically with the next major patch, but definitely after that. :)

Sweet thanks. Look forward to hearing about it in the near future.

Sparrow
06-23-2015, 02:29 PM
The AI patch will come either before or at the same time as the rumored largish PVE update coming at some point. Poor AI has really hurt the Arena experience, imo, so I don't think they'll make that mistake again.

Now, back on topic!

I think it's to Hex's benefit to blur the line between PVE and PVP as much as possible. Getting PVE "only" players to participate in something that is almost identical to PVE, but is actually PVP is a great way to do that.

LNQ
06-24-2015, 10:55 AM
Come to GenCon! :)

Long way from Finland, unfortunately. :)

EntropyBall
06-24-2015, 11:00 AM
They could make it a lot less exploitable by hiding player names (so they can't PM each other) and randomly assigning people to a game/AI champ. If lots of people were controlling AI bosses, it'd be hard to set up a win with your friend. The best solution is still just a better AI, since they need that for everything else anyway.