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View Full Version : Copy and Replication - with Sockets



nicosharp
06-25-2015, 03:59 PM
Is there any plan at some point to allow Copy's or Replication's to retain Socketed Gems of the original?
Would this be considered too powerful if so?
I think it could open up some interesting doors for deck building.

Ex: Dup Duke / Azurefate / etc.

Zophie
06-25-2015, 04:05 PM
I also think copy should mean exactly that: Copy. Complete with all socketed gems, shifted/inspired powers, and whatever other modifications are currently on it. It could definitely have potential of being overpowered, but it's more true to the word copy. For balance reasons I would be satisfied if they came up with a new term to accomplish this going forward, like "clone", and only use it on specific cards they are comfortable with power-wise. Likely only used on late game, high cost cards.

edit: nm copy does mean copy, see Oss below

nicosharp
06-25-2015, 04:28 PM
I also think copy should mean exactly that: Copy. Complete with all socketed gems, shifted/inspired powers, and whatever other modifications are currently on it. It could definitely have potential of being overpowered, but it's more true to the word copy. For balance reasons I would be satisfied if they came up with a new term to accomplish this going forward, like "clone", and only use it on specific cards they are comfortable with power-wise. Likely only used on late game, high cost cards.
The reason I am mentioning this, is that someone mentioned that Dup Duke is currently copying temporary buffs for the turn now too on the shifted troop. So, it seems more all-encompassing than the replication copying allowed prior. It's challenging to see the two as different mechanics..

Zophie
06-25-2015, 04:31 PM
The reason I am mentioning this, is that someone mentioned that Dup Duke is currently copying temporary buffs for the turn now too on the shifted troop. So, it seems more all-encompassing than the replication copying allowed prior. It's challenging to see the two as different mechanics..

Yeah I was always confused by those interactions, you bring up a good point there.

ossuary
06-25-2015, 04:56 PM
Replicas will always be "vanilla" versions of the troops, with no modifications applied. Copies are intended to be a 100% copy of everything that troop has right at that second, including temp buffs for the turn, previous modifications, etc. This should include gems applied as well, as far as I'm aware.

nicosharp
06-25-2015, 05:00 PM
Replicas will always be "vanilla" versions of the troops, with no modifications applied. Copies are intended to be a 100% copy of everything that troop has right at that second, including temp buffs for the turn, previous modifications, etc. This should include gems applied as well, as far as I'm aware.
Good to know. Thanks Oss.

Zophie
06-25-2015, 05:10 PM
Replicas will always be "vanilla" versions of the troops, with no modifications applied. Copies are intended to be a 100% copy of everything that troop has right at that second, including temp buffs for the turn, previous modifications, etc. This should include gems applied as well, as far as I'm aware.

Oh nice, that clears things up then, thanks for that :D

Yoss
06-25-2015, 05:20 PM
I've always been annoyed when "create" effects do not, at minimum, fill in sockets with random gems.

Xenavire
06-25-2015, 05:25 PM
Replicas will always be "vanilla" versions of the troops, with no modifications applied. Copies are intended to be a 100% copy of everything that troop has right at that second, including temp buffs for the turn, previous modifications, etc. This should include gems applied as well, as far as I'm aware.

You omitted an important fact - Replica's keep the socketed gems too. Gems are counted as part of the base card when they are added during deck construction.

selpai
06-25-2015, 06:01 PM
I've always been annoyed when "create" effects do not, at minimum, fill in sockets with random gems.

Seems like randomized transform effects should randomize the gem slot as well. But there are a lot of little things that Hex should be tweaking. The fact that there's no itteration in the form of patching and/or balance means that the game will never really grow or improve.

Queue fanboy defensive screaming and flailing. But seriously, what have they actually done in the past year? Is that all that you expect from an MMO? Admit it. Hex is basically Vaporware, with the odd set release piled on top of an ever rotting foundation.

Xenavire
06-25-2015, 06:11 PM
Seems like randomized transform effects should randomize the gem slot as well. But there are a lot of little things that Hex should be tweaking. The fact that there's no itteration in the form of patching and/or balance means that the game will never really grow or improve.

Queue fanboy defensive screaming and flailing. But seriously, what have they actually done in the past year? Is that all that you expect from an MMO? Admit it. Hex is basically Vaporware, with the odd set release piled on top of an ever rotting foundation.

Really now, HexEnt is pumping out content almost as fast as Blizzard does with a much smaller team. It is also relatively bug free, and there are often nice new features added to keep us entertained.

Fanboyism to the rescue or not, you are grossly misinformed and really should do a little research into the changes the game has undergone recently.

Fyren
06-25-2015, 06:25 PM
Seems like randomized transform effects should randomize the gem slot as well. But there are a lot of little things that Hex should be tweaking. The fact that there's no itteration in the form of patching and/or balance means that the game will never really grow or improve.

Queue fanboy defensive screaming and flailing. But seriously, what have they actually done in the past year? Is that all that you expect from an MMO? Admit it. Hex is basically Vaporware, with the odd set release piled on top of an ever rotting foundation.

That seemed a really odd logic distance from gem slot randomizing to "The game is collapsing and only fanboys will say otherwise."

nicosharp
06-25-2015, 06:28 PM
Seems like randomized transform effects should randomize the gem slot as well. But there are a lot of little things that Hex should be tweaking. The fact that there's no itteration in the form of patching and/or balance means that the game will never really grow or improve.

Queue fanboy defensive screaming and flailing. But seriously, what have they actually done in the past year? Is that all that you expect from an MMO? Admit it. Hex is basically Vaporware, with the odd set release piled on top of an ever rotting foundation.
I hope the lack of tangible progression is due to the large amount of work they are doing for PvE content. I feel your cynicism though. Some of it is fair. It boggles my mind how hard it has been for standard cards to be implemented without error, when countless months have passed between patches. However, I'm just some noob forum guy with very little programming background. Everything has a reason, and good things take time.

selpai
06-25-2015, 07:07 PM
I hope the lack of tangible progression is due to the large amount of work they are doing for PvE content. I feel your cynicism though. Some of it is fair. It boggles my mind how hard it has been for standard cards to be implemented without error, when countless months have passed between patches. However, I'm just some noob forum guy with very little programming background. Everything has a reason, and good things take time.

You don't really believe that though. There's no evidence to support the idea. There's no real work being done on Hex that i can see. An extra set isn't an improvement to the game, it's new content to sell, and new problems to be fixed. Not that they can be bothered to do that last part.

Have you heard the fanboys here? Their defensive flailing and screaming takes the form of viewing every basic function of the game (AH, Arena, Chat functions, Mail Storage, Etc.) as a monumental achievement within the industry. I'm just sitting here like, "there is nothing innovative or novel about these things" "they are basic, expected functions; like putting plumbing in your house.

Xenavire
06-25-2015, 07:17 PM
For a TCG, they actually are pretty innovative. MTGO lacks most of those, and Hearthstone lacks pretty much all of them.

Besides, building a sturdy base is important. Without a good foundation the game would fail anyway.

Fyren
06-25-2015, 07:21 PM
You don't really believe that though. There's no evidence to support the idea. There's no real work being done on Hex that i can see. An extra set isn't an improvement to the game, it's new content to sell, and new problems to be fixed. <snip>

People seem to view basic functions (AH, Arena, Chat functions, Mail Storage, Etc.) as a monumental achievement within the industry. I'm just sitting here like, "there is nothing innovative or novel about these things" "they are basic, expected functions; like putting plumbing in your house.

Fixed for the sake of reasonable discussion.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. You're not going to convince the 'fanboys' that no progress is being made - or of anything - by either A) calling them 'fanboys' or B) calling their arguments 'defensive flailing and screaming.' If you're right, then you're just going to push people in the opposing camp further into the opposing camp by making them defensive.

selpai
06-25-2015, 07:25 PM
For a TCG, they actually are pretty innovative. MTGO lacks most of those, and Hearthstone lacks pretty much all of them.

Besides, building a sturdy base is important. Without a good foundation the game would fail anyway.

That's fine and all, but their projections and hopes don't match the reality of the situation. Those other games are good because they are polished. Their content has been iterated upon time and again, until their rough stones shone. Hex is, by no measure of the word, polished. I don't see any steps being taken to improve the game rules, AI, UI, or the engine. There have also been no balance patches that i have seen. No matter what they promised, the idea of keeping the cards of each set the same forever is absolutely untenable. At some point they are going to have to go back and say, "now that we have more experience, money, and talent than we did when we first made this, we can go back and refine our vision" "our players expect higher quality now than they once did".



I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. You're not going to convince the 'fanboys' that no progress is being made - or of anything - by either A) calling them 'fanboys' or B) calling their arguments 'defensive flailing and screaming.' If you're right, then you're just going to push people in the opposing camp further into the opposing camp by making them defensive.

Tch tch tch... That's half the fun though. This community is almost as fun to tweak as Poxnora was. And if you want a perfect example of how a game model like this can linger on as a twitching mass of misplaced hopes, kept alive only by the defiant resolve of a tiny community too invested to abandon it... well there you go.

israel.kendall
06-25-2015, 07:50 PM
Holy shit dude did you seriously just say MTGO has been polished?! Sorry, couldn't read past that line because soda is all over monitor now.

selpai
06-25-2015, 07:54 PM
Holy shit dude did you seriously just say MTGO has been polished?! Sorry, couldn't read past that line because soda is all over monitor now.

I meant hearthstone, and MMO's like it. MTGO is notoriously horrible.

israel.kendall
06-25-2015, 08:27 PM
I meant hearthstone, and MMO's like it. MTGO is notoriously horrible.

LOL yeah looked like you just said MTGO was polished til it's rough stones shown and it was hilarious. But in regards to the rest of this debate, my feelings are that the amazing game we were promised is being delivered. I've been involved in a lot of alpha and betas and I don't see anything here that causes me to have any doubts.

MasterN64
06-25-2015, 09:11 PM
Much of game development is like that whole swan analogy. It looks all calm and peaceful out front but in the back its a hell of a lot of stuff going on. Just simple things like changing the chat UI or make this card not crash the entire engine SEEM simple to someone that isnt diving into code. Demanding that things be done faster without any knowledge of exactly what is being worked on is like me handing a shovel to you and telling you to dig and construct a pool for me in a day.

This stuff is far more complicated than slapping art into a card frame and putting text on it. The guys at Crypto and HexEnt are fairly well known and have a reputation so they wouldnt sell or produce vaporware. Its coming and its being worked on. Just because you havnt seen it or held it doesnt mean that its imaginary.

RCDv57
06-25-2015, 09:17 PM
I just want to say that regardless of the current state of the game, it is an amazing thing that selpai has not been "burned at the stake" for his aggressive stanse towards many members of the community. Anywhere else and the response would have been a great deal more volatile.
This is probably why Cory always brags about us in all of the interviews I have seen.

wolzarg
06-26-2015, 10:00 AM
I just want to say that regardless of the current state of the game, it is an amazing thing that selpai has not been "burned at the stake" for his aggressive stanse towards many members of the community. Anywhere else and the response would have been a great deal more volatile.
This is probably why Cory always brags about us in all of the interviews I have seen.
*Putts away the pitchforks and torches* Yes.. what he said.

the_artic_one
06-26-2015, 11:01 AM
Tch tch tch... That's half the fun though. This community is almost as fun to tweak as Poxnora was.

Direct admission of trolling. At least he's honest.

nicosharp
06-26-2015, 11:03 AM
Direct admission of trolling. At least he's honest.
Yup, and I used to take him seriously.

DocX
06-26-2015, 07:28 PM
Tch tch tch... That's half the fun though. This community is almost as fun to tweak as Poxnora was.

Ahh, a troll. Good to know. *plonk*

selpai
06-26-2015, 08:19 PM
Direct admission of trolling. At least he's honest.

No, it's really not. And thank you.

bizznach
06-26-2015, 08:28 PM
sounds like this selpai guy is derailing a perfectly good convo about copies and replicating...guys hes pretty much a fart at the dinner table just ignore him and his bad smell will go away(also giggle that someone let one rip during dinner)

selpai
06-26-2015, 08:39 PM
Please, tell me more about the maturity and dedication that earned the respect of the lead designer. (https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.troll.me%2Fimages%2Fcreepy-willy-wonka%2Fplease-tell-me-more-thumb.jpg&f=1)

israel.kendall
06-26-2015, 09:33 PM
sounds like this selpai guy is derailing a perfectly good convo about copies and replicating...guys hes pretty much a fart at the dinner table just ignore him and his bad smell will go away(also giggle that someone let one rip during dinner)

https://www.hexprimal.com/wp-content/uploads/StinkTroll.jpg

Barkam
06-26-2015, 09:50 PM
There is an Ignore function in the forums. Click on their name. Click "View Profile". Click "Add to Ignore List" then make sure to accept it.

Ertzi
06-27-2015, 12:05 AM
There is an Ignore function in the forums. Click on their name. Click "View Profile". Click "Add to Ignore List" then make sure to accept it.

Thanks. Was just about to ask how you add someone to ignore list. This guy had the honor of being the first on my list. Having chatted with this person in game just yesterday, it all makes sense now why he/she was so negative about everything. Was very annoying then, and it is even more annoying now that I see all the forum posts. I am happy to discuss issues rationally and in good humor, but this is not it. Enjoy the void.