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EntropyBall
06-26-2015, 07:16 AM
When VIP was cancelled in Aug/Sept 2014, CZE said the tournaments would run until there were no longer enough players to support it and then some other sort of bonus would replace the tournaments. I'm sure an actual end date is available, but I'm curious if we can expect to see another 2 VIP tournies after this one. I don't play in the Construcuted one, so I'm wondering if VIP Sealed will cycle around again. I know there are people who were able to stockpile almost 2 years of VIP before it was cancelled, so there will be some people getting tickets for a long while.

"Q: What if I still can’t make it to any of the tournaments at the end of a specific month? What if the specific tournament I planned to attend does not happen because not enough people signed up for that tournament? Will you offer compensation?
A: We won’t offer compensation for players missing VIP tournaments as long as at least 1 VIP tournament successfully started for that month. In 2015 as we get closer to most VIP subscriptions expiring and VIP tournaments are no longer getting enough people to start, we will convert expiring VIP tickets into other event ticket types"

If you can clarify more about converting expiring VIP tickets into other event types, or what will happen to non-expiring VIP tickets, that would also be appreciated.

pjvedder
06-26-2015, 07:31 AM
If I remember correctly, you could still buy the VIP through Sept of 2014 (or so at least that's when i think I bought my VIP subscription), so there would have to be VIP tournaments for at least 1 year following the last date of VIP purchases, so we should still see VIP through Sept. There may even be another one or two more, depending on people's non-expiring VIP and as you quoted above, the # of people who are able to join them. And don't quote me on this, but for the kickstarter backers that got 1 month of VIP, there's a chance that some of those people may not have redeemed yet and still entitled to 1 month. So all of that may push the VIP tournaments out a little further.

Gattou
06-26-2015, 07:43 AM
there are still KS codes not redeemed, so i suppose there will be a problem with the tickets/ or if people can't manage to take a day off to do a tournament like me.

Thrawn
06-26-2015, 07:45 AM
there are still KS codes not redeemed, so i suppose there will be a problem with the tickets/ or if people can't manage to take a day off to do a tournament like me.

If you're talking about KS backer codes that haven't been used it doesn't seem like a huge issue to me 2 years after the KS. At some point it is perfectly reasonable for Hex to quit supporting those or even just disable unredeemed codes completely.

x78089
06-26-2015, 07:46 AM
I would bet on several more iterations as people expends unused permanent tickets and those who got 2 years continue to play. There is also the possibility that they replace the program and continue to sell the VIP tickets.

Poetic
06-26-2015, 08:05 AM
I don't see why they couldn't continue the monthly tournaments for AAs without the VIP tag. You'd get a bigger turnout for newer players who missed out on VIP. People with permanent VIP tickets could use them for that.

People love AAs, think the participation would be worth it.

pjvedder
06-26-2015, 08:08 AM
I would bet on several more iterations as people expends unused permanent tickets and those who got 2 years continue to play. There is also the possibility that they replace the program and continue to sell the VIP tickets.

When you say "2 years", do you mean people buying the VIP twice? If that's the case, I don't think it worked like that. If you bought two VIP subscriptions, they stack concurrently. So you'd be getting two packs a week and two tickets each month, rather than extending it out to 2 years.

Thrawn
06-26-2015, 08:10 AM
When you say "2 years", do you mean people buying the VIP twice? If that's the case, I don't think it worked like that. If you bought two VIP subscriptions, they stack concurrently. So you'd be getting two packs a week and two tickets each month, rather than extending it out to 2 years.

According to the client I'm a VIP member until 06/14/2082 and my next booster will arrive 01/01/0001.

Poetic
06-26-2015, 08:11 AM
Probably, I was getting 2 and 2 for a while from the one I purchased and the kickstarter.

Incindium
06-26-2015, 08:16 AM
When you say "2 years", do you mean people buying the VIP twice? If that's the case, I don't think it worked like that. If you bought two VIP subscriptions, they stack concurrently. So you'd be getting two packs a week and two tickets each month, rather than extending it out to 2 years.

You could buy a year of VIP before they removed it from the Gameforge site. Then when they offered VIP in the in game store that extended your VIP length to 2 years total... Yes that is how it worked and those of us who bought both have over a year left of VIP still.

pjvedder
06-26-2015, 08:22 AM
You could buy a year of VIP before they removed it from the Gameforge site. Then when they offered VIP in the in game store that extended your VIP length to 2 years total... Yes that is how it worked and those of us who bought both have over a year left of VIP still.

Well i stand corrected. Good to know, then. Thanks.

Fyren
06-26-2015, 08:50 AM
I don't think they can remove VIP soon enough, frankly; The existing remnant is probably the single feature I feel most strongly negative about. A series of tournaments and events that new players cannot buy or work their way into is an inflamed vestigial organ on Hex at this point that creates a feeling among new players of being second class, and I don't think it can be doing more good than harm to remind them of that every month. It's Hex's appendicitis and needs to be removed.

See you for the one in an hour!

Thrawn
06-26-2015, 09:03 AM
If we allow just any random peasant to join the exclusive tournaments I won't feel like a VIP anymore.

Yoss
06-26-2015, 09:16 AM
If we allow just any random peasant to join the exclusive tournaments I won't feel like a VIP anymore.

Paying half price isn't good enough?

Elwinz
06-26-2015, 09:50 AM
If we allow just any random peasant to join the exclusive tournaments I won't feel like a VIP anymore.

Thats rough Elitism.

ossuary
06-26-2015, 09:56 AM
Thats rough Elitism.

It was also clearly meant sarcastically / tongue in cheek...

N3rd4Christ
06-26-2015, 10:53 AM
If we allow just any random peasant to join the exclusive tournaments I won't feel like a VIP anymore.

/Sign Petition

I dislike pheasants with a passion!

Xenavire
06-26-2015, 10:57 AM
/Sign Petition

I dislike pheasants with a passion!

Just wait, someone will cry fowl over the mistreatment of pheasants...

Zarien
06-26-2015, 10:59 AM
Speaking of VIP tourneys, i'm not home to check. Will the sealed tourneys this weekend use 3 packs of set 1, and 3 packs of set 2? or 6 packs of set 2? or 4/2? Wanted to confirm. Thanks for any responses!

Xenavire
06-26-2015, 11:04 AM
Speaking of VIP tourneys, i'm not home to check. Will the sealed tourneys this weekend use 3 packs of set 1, and 3 packs of set 2? or 6 packs of set 2? or 4/2? Wanted to confirm. Thanks for any responses!

This weekend? Set 1+2 as normal, because Set 3 isn't released yet.

KingGabriel
06-26-2015, 11:07 AM
Not sure but it'll be disappointing if we don't get at least 2 months notice.

katkillad
06-26-2015, 11:29 AM
Why would anyone want VIP to be discontinued? It's the only time we can officially get more than 20 people into a tournament with any regularity. The problem is they need to let more people in and it sounds like that's what they are planning to do. Shaqqattaq mentioned that in the June VIP thread in news/announcements.

I also only thought it lasted a year or would have bought an additional year, so hopefully they figure something out before my year ends.

purpenflurb
06-26-2015, 11:29 AM
I personally hope VIP in its current form ends sooner rather than later. As a fairly active player who started caring about the game too late to get into VIP, I find it extremely frustrating that there are huge events with lucrative prizes that I have no chance of being able to compete in.

I do think it is cool that they manage to get so many people around once a month for huge events though, and I would love to see something similar continued, but with actual avenues to get into it for newer players.

Fyren
06-26-2015, 12:00 PM
Why would anyone want VIP to be discontinued? It's the only time we can officially get more than 20 people into a tournament with any regularity. The problem is they need to let more people in and it sounds like that's what they are planning to do. Shaqqattaq mentioned that in the June VIP thread in news/announcements.

Did he now. That'd be entirely acceptable too. The exclusivity is the problem, not the idea of a monthly tourney weekend with AA prizes.

The_Lannisters
06-26-2015, 12:00 PM
They could get rid of the free pack per week and re-start some fashion of VIP program just for the tourneys.

nicosharp
06-26-2015, 12:12 PM
They just need to repackage these events so anyone can buy-in and play them. The trick is still finding a way to make the tickets exclusive enough per account, to still make the reward as cherished.

For example:
The store sells a account bound expiring ticket for VIP that can only be purchased once a month. 100-200plat range seems fair.
Or 200plat + 1current set pack + 1ticket

rjselzler
06-26-2015, 01:25 PM
They just need to repackage these events so anyone can buy-in and play them. The trick is still finding a way to make the tickets exclusive enough per account, to still make the reward as cherished.


This is what I always assumed they would do once they recognized the elephant in the room. VIP is cool, but unsustainable in its current form. VIP tournaments, however are ultra-great and totally salvageable. I trust HexEnt to do well by us and voodoo up a system that is worth it.

magic_gazz
06-26-2015, 02:32 PM
I have already solved this.

VIP for 500 plat per month, gives you new sleeves each month and entry into the VIP tournaments.

500 plat might be too expensive? Maybe?

I would pay it.

Ertzi
06-26-2015, 02:35 PM
VIP tourneys good, any kind of exclusive prizes bad. I'm not against significantly better prizes (more packs for example) in these tournaments, which would still give advantage to the VIP members, but I see no compelling reason to lock AAs behind VIP tourneys. I just won my first AAs of the weekend, but I still feel forced to play if I want them. Yes, I can always buy them, but of course I will try to win them first. I still hope the VIP program will be changed to only give fun, cosmetic stuff. I just want all tournaments to be something I can ignore, because they are stressful to play :P I will always draft from time to time, but I want to do it when I want, and never because I have to because of exclusive prizes. VIP schedule kind of forces me to play more PvP than I am comfortable with.

Let's not even do the philosophical "you don't have to" argument this time. I know I will survive without playing in the VIP tournaments or without having the AAs, but I feel like I have to, which is not always a fun feeling. This is just me though.

I would not cry if the entire concept of VIP would cease to exist. Even the name kind of divides players into two classes.

Man, I'm tired. Sorry if this post didn't make any sense :D

Ertzi
06-26-2015, 02:36 PM
I have already solved this.

VIP for 500 plat per month, gives you new sleeves each month and entry into the VIP tournaments.

500 plat might be too expensive? Maybe?

I would pay it.

I would pay it too, but I hope this will never become a thing. Exclusive sleeves would absolutely force my hand.

katkillad
06-26-2015, 02:42 PM
VIP tourneys good, any kind of exclusive prizes bad. I'm not against significantly better prizes (more packs for example) in these tournaments, which would still give advantage to the VIP members, but I see no compelling reason to lock AAs behind VIP tourneys.

The only reason I was interested and play in VIP tournaments is for the AA's. I'd rather keep the AA prizes and just make it more open to people. Once you start making a tournament worth more pack prizes, rather than an AA prize, then you start screwing with the economy and people would view the standard tournaments as less value and wouldn't play them as much.

hammer
06-26-2015, 02:43 PM
Sleeves a month seem excessive but sleeve per 4 month block using one of the AA arts sounds fun. 4 monthly blocks with 4 x 1 monthly tickets and a sleeve for 20USD sounds good to me ;)

Xenavire
06-26-2015, 02:50 PM
If they were going to give sleeves, I would prefer they kept the packs and made the price higher, and give the sleeves on the first purchase of a month in a given 4 month cycle. The buy-in to get the sleeves would be a lot lower (not giving people the feeling they are being forced into it) while still giving people incentive to buy in for a full 4 months (you get full price boosters 1/week + 4 VIP tickets + sleeves.)

Feels like a nice perk rather than a forced sale, since you get value and a bit, without going overboard. Also, giving it to the first purchase of a cycle doesn't punish people for buying in late.

rjselzler
06-26-2015, 02:56 PM
The only reason I was interested and play in VIP tournaments is for the AA's. I'd rather keep the AA prizes and just make it more open to people. Once you start making a tournament worth more pack prizes, rather than an AA prize, then you start screwing with the economy and people would view the standard tournaments as less value and wouldn't play them as much.

Same here. It works for That other Game™ every single Friday, so I've never been clear why an online game that is designed to be more flexible with schedules would only have exclusives once a month. If I ha my druthers, I would devise an AA system as follows:

-Scheduled Sealed and Constructed queues award an AA uncommon that rotates monthly. Players with three or four wins get one. Extras randomly distributed to the other( 0, 1, and 2 win) players at some sort of set ratio based upon attendance.

-Every regular (Sealed, draft, and constructed) queue yields 1 AA common that rotates monthly to first place and one extra randomly distributed to one of the other seven players that did not drop.

-VIP queues stay as they are.

-Uber tourneys (like the 100k hype one) have some sort of AA legendary attached. A man can dream, right? :D

wolzarg
06-27-2015, 12:27 PM
Isnt the problem that If anyone can join the A A lose value and then the whole thing is pointless?

Xenavire
06-27-2015, 12:46 PM
Isnt the problem that If anyone can join the A A lose value and then the whole thing is pointless?

The original VIP was going to be open for everyone. The fact that it is closed off and forcing the AA prices up is a byproduct of them deciding half price packs were too vulnerable - they didn't remove VIP to give the AA's more value.

I would be perfectly fine with having future VIP AA's having much lower value, but still, only so many are generated for so many players, so they will always be rarer than demand can supply. :p

N3rd4Christ
06-27-2015, 01:17 PM
I have already solved this.

VIP for 500 plat per month, gives you new sleeves each month and entry into the VIP tournaments.

500 plat might be too expensive? Maybe?

I would pay it.

They need to charge $5 not plat, Plat doesnt make them money. VIP should make hex ent money on a monthly basis.

N3rd4Christ
06-27-2015, 01:20 PM
$8 Per Month Gets You:
- 1 VIP Ticket
- 1 Pack Per Week
- 1 Exclusive Sleeve per 4 Months.

Boom, YOu get 4 Packs, You Get Tournament and You get A Sleeve. Thats only $96 Per Year which is not bad.

Packs are not discounted so that eliminates that, Sleeve and Tournament are the only reasons to buy this so cant be abused.

This way hex ent keeps a steady flow of cash.

I would even be ok With "Veteran" VIP Rewards. After 4 Months of paying you get X Sleeve, After 8 You get X Sleeve, After 1 Year of paying you get X Sleeve Etc.

Kami
06-27-2015, 02:02 PM
Not sure why when everyone starts suggesting VIP replacements, it's almost always PvP-orientated.

More PvE love please. :stormcloud:

Ertzi
06-27-2015, 02:05 PM
not sure why when everyone starts suggesting vip replacements, it's almost always pvp-orientated.

More pve love please. :stormcloud:

qft

Thrawn
06-27-2015, 02:05 PM
Not sure why when everyone starts suggesting VIP replacements, it's almost always PvP-orientated.

More PvE love please. :stormcloud:

VIP cost money, PvE is completely free, those two things don't mix.

Poetic
06-27-2015, 02:06 PM
What would be something they can add for PVE?

israel.kendall
06-27-2015, 02:08 PM
Not sure why when everyone starts suggesting VIP replacements, it's almost always PvP-orientated.

More PvE love please. :stormcloud:

I think it always PvP oriented because the major thing people want to salvage from VIP is the VIP tourney, which is PvP. I do agree though, there should be some sort of PvE oriented thing to balance it out. Gold loot boost could be something maybe.

israel.kendall
06-27-2015, 02:10 PM
VIP cost money, PvE is completely free, those two things don't mix.

PvE can be completely free, but that does not mean all PvE players are averse to spending money. Many people dropped large chunks of cash on the HEX kickstarter specifically for PvE.

Thrawn
06-27-2015, 03:55 PM
PvE can be completely free, but that does not mean all PvE players are averse to spending money. Many people dropped large chunks of cash on the HEX kickstarter specifically for PvE.

Unless I'm mistaken Cory has very clearly said he does not want to ever work PvE towards the micro-transaction crap most games have lately. Giving someone playing purely PvE any kind of advantage because they spent money on VIP would completely flies in the face of that.

Elwinz
06-27-2015, 04:00 PM
Kicstarter and Vip is not quite same. I have backed the game.I dont have VIP

Kami
06-27-2015, 06:35 PM
Unless I'm mistaken Cory has very clearly said he does not want to ever work PvE towards the micro-transaction crap most games have lately. Giving someone playing purely PvE any kind of advantage because they spent money on VIP would completely flies in the face of that.

That's because you're thinking of it from a PvP perspective.

There is no reason there can't be PvE aspects for VIP without compromising balance.

Weltenbrand
06-28-2015, 02:05 AM
I think many backers like me need some clarification. I m King Tier and according to Kickstarter i have 3 months VIP enrollment. In my account i have a VIP ticket. I dont even know how to use it. Is it one-time only or is it consecutive beginning with the first use?

Besides, why would i dare to use the VIP ticket now when Hex is still in Beta.

Sorry, but i didnt follow the development and some clarification is really needed.

NoahBuddy
06-28-2015, 02:27 AM
tournies like this should be a one time entry fee for each one not a subscription. i would love to participate in these but i work most weekends and between that and family i rarely have a chance. these tourney times don't work for a lot of people if you go by some of the complaints i have read.
tourneys=good
exclusivity=bad

hex_colin
06-28-2015, 06:05 AM
Any plans to ever make these open to people who missed VIP sign ups last year? These are scheduled tournaments that actually fire with a good amount of people and would be a lot of fun for everyone, not just those who were able to VIP. I don't even care about the AAs. I'd just like to be able to participate in the tournaments.


Yes, we are actively working on a solution to that problem. I can't say when we will launch that solution, though.

I know what the plans are so I've refrained from commenting in this thread. But Will's response above tells you a great deal without actually saying much. ;)

Incindium
06-28-2015, 06:29 AM
I think many backers like me need some clarification. I m King Tier and according to Kickstarter i have 3 months VIP enrollment. In my account i have a VIP ticket. I dont even know how to use it. Is it one-time only or is it consecutive beginning with the first use?

Besides, why would i dare to use the VIP ticket now when Hex is still in Beta.

Sorry, but i didnt follow the development and some clarification is really needed.

If you were a King backer and had already applied your KS code for King rewards to your account before Sept 2014 you would have gotten 3 month of VIP starting in Sept 2014. The VIP tourney tickets would expire each month but you would have gotten a pack a week added to your account for three months while VIP was active.

If you applied your King KS code later than Sept 2014 your 3 months of VIP would have started when the code was applied.

I'm guessing what is in your account is actually a bugged VIP program token that appears for some people and not an actual VIP tourney ticket.

Vorpal
06-29-2015, 07:20 AM
I know the plan was to continue VIP tournies for a while until tickets were used up and the population wasn't there to support them.

We may be fast approaching that point. I was shocked at how low, comparatively, the turnout was for this VIP - sometimes only about 80 people.

Back in the day not only was the tournament filled, but new tournaments for the same time slot were opened and almost filled.

Xenavire
06-29-2015, 07:29 AM
I know the plan was to continue VIP tournies for a while until tickets were used up and the population wasn't there to support them.

We may be fast approaching that point. I was shocked at how low, comparatively, the turnout was for this VIP - sometimes only about 80 people.

Back in the day not only was the tournament filled, but new tournaments for the same time slot were opened and almost filled.

You have to remember though that the old cap was 126 or so, and later they doubled that, meaning there is no need for overflow tournies anymore, so people aren't panicked about getting a spot at the time they want to go. Also, a lot of the 'demand' was from KS VIP (and those went side by side with normal VIP) and not the year buy-ins of VIP, so we have actually reached a more 'normal' amount. All in all, we still see a lot of activity and demand right now, but a lot of ticket sources dried up, as did the competition for time slots.

However... With the small amount of people that actually got 2 years, all we are going to see is non-expiring tickets and 2 year people, and thats going to be a lot less people than, so we will see in 2 months or so whether or not there will be enough people in attendance. I gotta say I agree with you that it seems unlikely to be enough people around to fill an acceptable number of slots, so I hope something is done soon.

jonsnow2000
06-29-2015, 09:01 AM
I think the current cycle of VIP tourneys will go through like usual, with September being the month where a change gets introduced. I hope that they keep the AA payouts and just simply find a way to give non-VIPs a way to get entry.

plaguedealer
06-29-2015, 09:05 AM
Honestly I didnt participate in this month's sealed because the rewards were set 2 packs. Not the best reason since thee aa was set 3. I will be hitting vip sealed up next month.

Xenavire
06-29-2015, 09:08 AM
Honestly I didnt participate in this month's sealed because the rewards were set 2 packs. Not the best reason since thee aa was set 3. I will be hitting vip sealed up next month.

I entered more than normal because I wanted to remove some old packs. I ended up winning most of them back, so I listed a few on the AH to make up for the plat entries. :p

hex_colin
06-29-2015, 09:15 AM
Honestly I didnt participate in this month's sealed because the rewards were set 2 packs. Not the best reason since thee aa was set 3. I will be hitting vip sealed up next month.

Next month will be constructed... With Set 3 eligible.

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 09:18 AM
Honestly I didnt participate in this month's sealed because the rewards were set 2 packs. Not the best reason since thee aa was set 3. I will be hitting vip sealed up next month.

Played once because I can't stand watching a ticket expire. The cards I opened and the cards I was beaten with only reaffirmed my strong dislike for sealed. Hoping to play at least 3 tournaments next month for Set 3 constructed.

ossuary
06-29-2015, 09:19 AM
Next month's VIP is going to be super interesting, because people will only have had about 2 weeks to play around with the final version of set 3, and it will be a big chance for the meta to get shaken up. I'll be very interested to see who tries to use unmodified versions of old successful decks, and who tries out something completely new, and how well each strategy does. :)

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 09:19 AM
So for me, I was not paying attention and didn't extend my VIP. But I still have 4 non expiring tickets. I didn't use them for the last VIP AA because I was holding out for better AA in this set of VIP. It sounds like I should try to use my tickets now rather than try to let them ride again?

hex_colin
06-29-2015, 09:22 AM
So for me, I was not paying attention and didn't extend my VIP. But I still have 4 non expiring tickets. I didn't use them for the last VIP AA because I was holding out for better AA in this set of VIP. It sounds like I should try to use my tickets now rather than try to let them ride again?

Why would you be in any rush to use them? See my earlier post in this thread where I quoted Will.

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 09:27 AM
So for me, I was not paying attention and didn't extend my VIP. But I still have 4 non expiring tickets. I didn't use them for the last VIP AA because I was holding out for better AA in this set of VIP. It sounds like I should try to use my tickets now rather than try to let them ride again?

Hard to say, we have pretty much no solid information about it that I'm aware of, just a lot of speculation.

hex_colin
06-29-2015, 09:32 AM
Hard to say, we have pretty much no solid information about it that I'm aware of, just a lot of speculation.

Will confirmed that VIP would return in some form, he just wasn't willing to commit to timing and/or exact implementation details. So, any speculation about VIP tournaments going away is moot. At this point valid speculation would probably be what it might cost and what you get as a "bonus".

strawwmann
06-29-2015, 09:51 AM
valid speculation.

I love that expression - my new favourite of the day :)
It resolves soooo many unnecessary arguments :)


"Noone expects the 'valid speculation'!" - with apologies to Monty Python

"I reject your invalid speculation and substitute my own!" - with apologies to Adam Savage

hex_colin
06-29-2015, 09:53 AM
I love that expression - my new favourite of the day :)

"Noone expects the 'valid speculation'!"

It resolves soooo many unnecessary arguments :)

"Reasonable" might have been a better word. ;) My point was that speculating on something we'd already been provided an answer to is beyond pointless. :)

strawwmann
06-29-2015, 09:59 AM
"Reasonable" might have been a better word. ;) My point was that speculating on something we'd already been provided an answer to is beyond pointless. :)

The expression is coined, there is no uncoining it now!
It is a great expression, take credit where it's due :)

RCDv57
06-29-2015, 11:00 AM
I would guess that it would have a similar price point, and maybe give a draft ticket and a constructed Gauntlet ticket.
Maybe a new mini pack of cards that is worth <100p as it doesn't garentee a rare, can't drop legendaries, and can not be used for tournament entry. I don't think something like that would affect the price of packs on the AH. But it could cause a great deal of confusion for new players.

Vorpal
06-29-2015, 11:09 AM
Played once because I can't stand watching a ticket expire. The cards I opened and the cards I was beaten with only reaffirmed my strong dislike for sealed. Hoping to play at least 3 tournaments next month for Set 3 constructed.

I had one 0-4 run that was pretty crazy like that.

I lost to someone who went something like pyro -> jags -> huntress -> sniper of gawaine to wipe my entire board. Then I lost to someone who had both monsuun windajin AND zombie plague out in the first few cards of his deck.

I kept marvelling, as I racked up loss after loss, that the decks I was playing against got more and more ridiculous.

Kinda wish it was draft rather than sealed.

the_artic_one
06-29-2015, 12:13 PM
Next month's VIP is going to be super interesting, because people will only have had about 2 weeks to play around with the final version of set 3, and it will be a big chance for the meta to get shaken up. I'll be very interested to see who tries to use unmodified versions of old successful decks, and who tries out something completely new, and how well each strategy does. :)

If history is any indication, old decks with a couple new cards thrown in will do the best.

Thoom
06-29-2015, 12:44 PM
Will confirmed that VIP would return in some form, he just wasn't willing to commit to timing and/or exact implementation details. So, any speculation about VIP tournaments going away is moot. At this point valid speculation would probably be what it might cost and what you get as a "bonus".

And whether the fact that nu-VIP will be open to all means the newer VIP prizes will be less exclusive and thus less valuable, making it important to use non-expiring tickets now. The fact that we're probably not going to get information on this until after we've missed a good chunk of our window to spend tickets on the current VIP AAs is mildly frustrating.

wolzarg
06-29-2015, 01:00 PM
And whether the fact that nu-VIP will be open to all means the newer VIP prizes will be less exclusive and thus less valuable, making it important to use non-expiring tickets now. The fact that we're probably not going to get information on this until after we've missed a good chunk of our window to spend tickets on the current VIP AAs is mildly frustrating.
You mean kinda like how investing in the VIP was in the first place? We had no clue the VIP tournaments would be anything big to celebrate about and we still subbed, or at least i did.

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 02:43 PM
Why would you be in any rush to use them? See my earlier post in this thread where I quoted Will.

Because of the exclusivity of the prizes. If the program is revamped to be more inclusive then those AA prizes will be a lot less rare than current prizes.

hex_colin
06-29-2015, 02:49 PM
Because of the exclusivity of the prizes. If the program is revamped to be more inclusive then those AA prizes will be a lot less rare than current prizes.

That's only relevant if their monetary value has any meaning - I could care less. Lots of folks just want a playset.

Everyone makes their own value judgement. It's blatantly obvious what folks who are interested in making money from AAs should do if they have spare tickets laying around.

Xenavire
06-29-2015, 03:23 PM
That's only relevant if their monetary value has any meaning - I could care less. Lots of folks just want a playset.

Everyone makes their own value judgement. It's blatantly obvious what folks who are interested in making money from AAs should do if they have spare tickets laying around.

I gotta +1 the playset thing. I have never sold an AA so far, and the only ones I traded off were a few from the wheels and a couple of Darkspire Punishers - the rest I gave away to family or are still in my collection until I can figure out what to do with them.

I don't actively aim for more than 4, but I do try to make the most of any opportunity that gets me a chance at an AA, because I am very fond of them. :p (I still feel sad that I will never be able to just have the collector perk (or x2) for life, because having 4x all of those automatically would give me a warm fuzzy feeling. :D)

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 03:26 PM
That's only relevant if their monetary value has any meaning - I could care less. Lots of folks just want a playset.

Everyone makes their own value judgement. It's blatantly obvious what folks who are interested in making money from AAs should do if they have spare tickets laying around.

Or people looking to complete personal playsets as economically as possible also.

Thoom
06-29-2015, 05:34 PM
That's only relevant if their monetary value has any meaning - I could care less. Lots of folks just want a playset.

Monetary value can be put toward future playsets of other cards.

Elwinz
06-30-2015, 08:07 AM
Punisher was not Vip exclusive card and its wroth much less then the VIP AAs tough

EntropyBall
06-30-2015, 09:57 AM
That's only relevant if their monetary value has any meaning - I could care less. Lots of folks just want a playset.

Everyone makes their own value judgement. It's blatantly obvious what folks who are interested in making money from AAs should do if they have spare tickets laying around.

I think this a really self-centered way of looking at this question. You have both a large Hex budget and tremendous future knowledge of what will happen in the game. Surely you can see how those of us with only 1 or neither of those would want to have more info about how VIP will progress.

And I don't think it's blatantly obvious what people should do to make the most money from AAs, because the cards from the VIP tournaments will get increasingly more rare. Yet at some point they might just convert our VIP tickets to something else. And that something else might be far less valuable if its an entry into a more inclusive AA tournament.

hex_colin
06-30-2015, 11:13 AM
I think this a really self-centered way of looking at this question. You have both a large Hex budget and tremendous future knowledge of what will happen in the game. Surely you can see how those of us with only 1 or neither of those would want to have more info about how VIP will progress.

And I don't think it's blatantly obvious what people should do to make the most money from AAs, because the cards from the VIP tournaments will get increasingly more rare. Yet at some point they might just convert our VIP tickets to something else. And that something else might be far less valuable if its an entry into a more inclusive AA tournament.

How is it self-centered? I presented my view of what was important and then very specifically said that everyone needs to make their own value judgement. I'm not making that judgement for anyone else. Lots of people care about making cash - great for them. That's just not MY motivation.

If you'd read the rest of this thread it should be obvious. I'll spell it out though.

Current AAs are pretty rare. But... Will stated that they're looking for ways to make VIP available to everyone else again (without committing to timing, cost, etc.). So, that makes 2 things reasonably apparent. One, VIP is probably not going away (no ticket conversion). And, two, the VIP population will likely substantially increase at some point - there are many more folks playing now than there were last time it was offered. Assuming those 2 things are true, future VIP cards are likely to be more abundant (downward pricing pressure). But... spread across a larger player base (upward pricing pressure).

Knowing all of that... I'd likely burn tickets now, mostly because I know I can probably get them in the future anyway.

Raith
06-30-2015, 11:52 AM
Very good summary of the current situation.

Regardless of what it does to the value of future AA's, allowing more players the chance to join in will be welcome. Based on how things worked out with the VIP, it feels like the program is arbitrarily exclusive.

EntropyBall
06-30-2015, 12:29 PM
How is it self-centered? I presented my view of what was important and then very specifically said that everyone needs to make their own value judgement. I'm not making that judgement for anyone else. Lots of people care about making cash - great for them. That's just not MY motivation.

If you'd read the rest of this thread it should be obvious. I'll spell it out though.

Current AAs are pretty rare. But... Will stated that they're looking for ways to make VIP available to everyone else again (without committing to timing, cost, etc.). So, that makes 2 things reasonably apparent. One, VIP is probably not going away (no ticket conversion). And, two, the VIP population will likely substantially increase at some point - there are many more folks playing now than there were last time it was offered. Assuming those 2 things are true, future VIP cards are likely to be more abundant (downward pricing pressure). But... spread across a larger player base (upward pricing pressure).

Knowing all of that... I'd likely burn tickets now, mostly because I know I can probably get them in the future anyway.

I said it sounded self-centered (probably not exactly the right word choice, sorry) because several of your posts in this thread have combined your knowledge of what is going to happen with a vague post from Will, and then questioned how anyone could even wonder what the final outcome is. Yet you've also made a post that questioned why anyone would be in a rush to use their tickets now, and then followed it up with "I'd likely burn tickets now". israel.kendall was asking a question from a value standpoint, and for those people who "just want a playset" the monetary value still has meaning, because a playset is easier to acquire if the cards are cheaper.

Will's post that you quoted is vague enough that it could be answering any number of questions that Eetabee asked. I don't read that and conclude that they are definitely adding back some sort of VIP and not converting future VIP tickets.

Thanks for spelling it out for me, this is pretty much exactly what I wanted to know when I started this thread.

Not trying to start a fight, and I think you're a great person for what you do in this community, but I also think you sometimes lose sight of how little the rest of us know. Vague hints on the forums seem more obvious when you know what they are actually referring to, and I'm sure it's nearly impossible to evaluate it all from an outsider's perspective. There have been several uproars here from people reading too much into a statement from CZE about some future feature and then later finding it out it wasn't what they had assumed, so I don't think it's safe to say people should be extrapolating too much.

hex_colin
06-30-2015, 05:27 PM
Yet you've also made a post that questioned why anyone would be in a rush to use their tickets now, and then followed it up with "I'd likely burn tickets now".

To be fair, I only asked a question. There was nothing else implied. You've tried to add additional meaning to my post where there was none. Besides, those are entirely consistent. There is no real impetus to burn tickets because they won't be transformed into something else if VIP is hanging around. They'll still be good. But because there is a likelihood of being able to get more, no real reason to keep them either - I like playing so burning them is a good idea. I can still believe that it's fine to burn them whilst not being worried if I can't for whatever reason.

Also, there was only 1 question in the post Will replied to. You don't have to guess what he was answering.

You should never read too much into anyone's comments ever. The only constant is change. But my comments in this thread are easily extrapolated from things that have been posted on these forums irrespective of what else I might know. And, like everything else, it might change tomorrow for 100 good reasons...

EDIT: Actually, it's not vague at all... It's particularly clear. Just because it doesn't spell out the plan, doesn't make it vague:


Any plans to ever make these open to people who missed VIP sign ups last year?


Yes, we are actively working on a solution to that problem. I can't say when we will launch that solution, though.

AstaSyneri
07-01-2015, 02:49 AM
What? Let the unwashed masses enter the VIP? What has the Empire come to?

James? The tea, please! James? JAAMEEEEES...

Oh well, I was hoping the VIP would run out at some point, with the VIP leftover tickets being burned in a final rush of glory on some really nice AA cards. I don't like the pressure VIP tournaments put on me and my family. Right now I'd rather play the Sealed rather than the constructed ones. But as usually I will probably find that CZE will come up with a good solution to this.

malloc31
07-01-2015, 06:14 AM
There is no real impetus to burn tickets because they won't be transformed into something else if VIP is hanging around. They'll still be good.

I feel like from just the fact that some form of VIP will be around in the future, there is no way to infer that the exact VIP tickets we have now will always be able to be used. To me it seems if any major changes to the pricing or structure of VIP are made it would not make sense for them to allow old (VIP 1.0) tickets to be used to new (VIP 2.0). So unless you have heard this from the developers I do not see why you would make this assumption?

Yoss
07-01-2015, 08:25 AM
VIP Gauntlet, anyone?

TOOT
07-01-2015, 08:31 AM
everyone :)

Xenavire
07-01-2015, 09:04 AM
VIP Gauntlet, anyone?

I'd rather not unless they heavily modify the prize structures. I like having Bo3 and the current gauntlet queues are not going to be Bo3. Also, going to 5 wins (especially if it is match wins) is going to be difficult and again, the prize structure needs to reflect that.

I know it won't be the most popular opinion, but unless VIP gauntlet was heavily modified compared to the upcoming version, I would much rather have the 4-5 hour block of time. It isn't convenient for me, but at least I have a moderate amount of confidence that I won't be completely blown out by RNG.

malloc31
07-01-2015, 11:13 AM
there is no reason they couldn't have a VIP gauntlet be Bo3. I understand for normal gauntlet it is so you can do something in a small time period, and I am all for that. But for a VIP gauntlet if you had to have ~45 minutes per match I can't see people complaining much.

israel.kendall
07-01-2015, 11:18 AM
I don't think a VIP gauntlet would even be possible. What happens when the last 4 guys in the VIP gauntlet all live in different timezones with completely incompatible schedules?

Yoss
07-02-2015, 05:27 PM
I don't think a VIP gauntlet would even be possible. What happens when the last 4 guys in the VIP gauntlet all live in different timezones with completely incompatible schedules?

They get paid out for their current quantity of wins, or the system coin flips the remaining games when the event closes. The percentage of players caught in this situation would be incredibly small.

wolzarg
07-02-2015, 08:43 PM
They get paid out for their current quantity of wins, or the system coin flips the remaining games when the event closes. The percentage of players caught in this situation would be incredibly small. As a person that works weekends and has a really really hard time making any of the vip preset times i would love me some asynch vip. The only problem i see which may or may not be a problem is that people could technically enter more events than intended in a specific week. This is obviously still limited by tickets so shouldn't be an issue but it could be i guess.

Yoss
07-02-2015, 10:20 PM
As a person that works weekends and has a really really hard time making any of the vip preset times i would love me some asynch vip. The only problem i see which may or may not be a problem is that people could technically enter more events than intended in a specific week. This is obviously still limited by tickets so shouldn't be an issue but it could be i guess.

Something tells me that having "too many" people join is a problem HXE would love to have. :)