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argentumDraco
06-28-2015, 06:11 AM
I give up on the arena being at all "fun."

5 of the last 6 arena runs I have run into Xarlox. The first 4 times he was the tier 2 or 3 boss. The 4th I got the tunneling challenge during Uzume tier 2 and lost in 3.

6th time I think I might have a chance at finally perfect clearing.
Nope, Xarlox gets a terrorantual off my first fucking card.


Could the arena just warn me ahead of time so I can just quit and not waste my time?

argentumDraco
06-28-2015, 06:19 AM
Vegeta, what does the scouter say about OP's saltines level?

It's over NINE THOUSAND!!!!

Showsni
06-28-2015, 06:29 AM
What decks are you using? You could try building a deck specifically to beat Xarlox; for example, Spellshield troops to thwart his Terrorantulas. Water Elementals work a treat.

Sparrow
06-28-2015, 06:43 AM
I struggled with Arena for a long while until I finally broke down and cribbed some decks people had posted. There's a mono ruby budget deck that runs Arena Commander that clears perfect about 60-70% of the time (higher, depending how far above budget you want to go) and can usually take out Xarlox if you meet him or it or her. There's also a fairly budget Saph/Ruby Dwarf/Bot deck that is reliable to finish Arena with, but doesn't have as high a perfect rate. Really, not to make you feel bad, but getting perfect right now on Arena is fairly trivial.

Both decks are posted on the forums somewhere multiple times, with multiple variants.

RanaDunes
06-28-2015, 07:31 AM
Arena is just a sequence of random AI with weird deck. There's no sense of progress and no sense of challenge. It's purely a grind and a boring one unfortunately.

I think we need to wait for the sense of progression (the might system? the RPG elements...etc).

Tinfoil
06-28-2015, 08:08 AM
look in the Strategy and decklist subforum. Plenty of good decks there that can beat anything in the arena :) (though RNG is always something you can lose to).

Lukezors
06-28-2015, 08:32 AM
You shouldn't expect the get a perfect clear on the arena all that often. Completing it most times(with some losses) is something attainable though.

DanTheMeek
06-28-2015, 11:46 AM
I feel like the topic creator may have unreasonably high expectations for his success rate. If arena was trivially easy to do perfect runs on with any decent deck, THAT is what would make it bad, because it would be a boring mindless grind. Granted, I think different players enjoy different gameplay elements more then others, I've always generally hated mindless grinds (its one of the main things that's kept me from ever really embracing most MMOs like my friends) but I do know friends who love them, and even I have those days after a mentally exhausting day at work where I don't want to be challenged, I just want to zone out, relax, and feel success, and for those type of days I can see the appeal of such a type of content.

Ultimately, right now, we're seeing a very VERY small piece of the hex pve pie, its very likely that there will be much lower difficulty dungeons on the horizon, but anticipate equally lower rewards as a trade off. Further, since we only have the one dungeon to keep us busy for the time being, I think having one thats on the upper end of challenging vs the lower was the right way to go. And as other posters have already noted, if your a power gamer and you want to grind as efficiently as possible, decks have been finely honed since arenas launch and posted on the forums which allow you to roll through xarlox and the arena with ridiculous consistency. But that is what I think you should have to do for a dungeon, either play a deck you enjoy but be willing to accept the occasional loss, or optimize your deck as much as absolutely possible for the dungeon, and while its possible the OP has just gotten unlucky, I think its more likely he has not done so based on his results.

And also, as a quick side note, if the arena is going to stand the test of time, it needs to on the higher end of difficulty, because the more cards and equipment we get access to, theoretically the easier all dungeons, arena included, will become.

For the record, I also hate Xarlox, and do kind of wish he was programmed to showed up a little less commonly, but gave slightly greater rewards for beating him, kind of inbetween Uruunnaz and a normal boss and still showing up in the boss slot, with the odds of him showing up anywhere but the final boss fight in particularly being quite low. But what I don't want is for him to be weakened because the terror he's had on arena goers is the sort of memorable thing I personally look forward to in gaming, it has lasting impact, is the sort of t hing I'll probably still think back on a year from now when I'm hopefully looking back at how far we've come in having so many dungeons when just a year ago we had only the one with the infamous Xarlox.

Flairina
06-28-2015, 12:20 PM
Wait, Xarlox gives better rewards for beating him? Since when? If that's so I take back some of my own complaints about him; that's at least some decent compensation.

Ertzi
06-28-2015, 12:43 PM
Wait, Xarlox gives better rewards for beating him? Since when? If that's so I take back some of my own complaints about him; that's at least some decent compensation.

He doesn't. I think that was speculative.

LordGorchnik
06-28-2015, 01:51 PM
The problem with arena is that even with a great deck or not, it's still a grind. The 6-7K gold you get from a full clear means you need to do a full clear 4-5 times to earn enough to purchase 1 AA card (assuming that's what you're going for) or 4-5 spins of normal rarity chests. People have thousands upon thousands of these chests and for some people it's just not "fun" anymore. Maybe others find the Frost Arena fun, but having cleared it now with 7-8 different decks multiple times I can quite honestly say I've had my fill and am definitely ready for the next PvE event/dungeon or whatever they are cooking in the oven.

Mejis
06-28-2015, 02:07 PM
I feel like the topic creator may have unreasonably high expectations for his success rate. If arena was trivially easy to do perfect runs on with any decent deck, THAT is what would make it bad, because it would be a boring mindless grind.

I would argue that it is trivially easy with any decent deck. I get perfect or near perfect runs every time (I don't consider myself that good a player/don't have that big a collection), and the only thing that may screw that up is Xarlox, and that's due to RNG of his deck. That's not a bad thing, I don't mind some hard-RNG decks thrown in for fun. I have laughed and screamed at Xarlox many times, but always enjoyed myself.
The reason the arena is so easy is because, frankly, the AI is pretty terrible still.

And yes, I know quite a few are getting burnt out on Arena because it has been out so long now and, for me at least, it is just a grind to get gold for those AAs at the moment. That means I'm mainly doing speed runs to increase the gold rate, but even then it is starting to feel like a bit of a chore, so I've dialled it back a lot lately and am mainly holding out for Gauntlet Sealed to fill my HEX time until we get the nice slice of PvE pie (and some better AI!!)

Voormas
06-28-2015, 03:15 PM
I'm certainly having less much fun because each time I start up a new run I'm like "okay, Uruunaz has to turn up now right I've done so many of these!" and then that doesn't happen

I have a full playset of the AA removal already and over a million gold, I don't need any more of this stuff I just need to fight (and win!) for those damned sleeves!

Flairina
06-28-2015, 03:37 PM
I don't understand how people can put themselves through the hundreds of runs necessary to get the full AA set/up to a MILLION gold. Like, even "speedrunning" the arena, meaning I win in 3-5 turns usually, it takes me over an hour. I get bored HALFWAY through the arena, how do you guys do it? Is it just powering through? Do you go in to some sort of zen state? What? WHAT?!

(Seriously, props to those who do that, I continue to have no idea how.)

Vorsa
06-28-2015, 03:41 PM
I'm surprised at my current capacity for arena farming (helps that I'm watching tv too in another window), but I expect it will be much fun soon with:

* An influx of new cards & equipment to experiment with.
* Immediacy of rewards with stardust dropping & smaller stardust transactions to spend on.

Compared to current situation where just amassing gold, it should become much more satisfying!

poizonous
06-28-2015, 03:48 PM
See Vorsa while I agree it might spark a little more interest in it, i just feel its a lost concept until the AI is much better. The original plan was for Tier 1 to be accepting of new players with the rest getting progressively harder. To me I see very little difference between Tier 2 and Tier 4.

My suggestion for this would be to lock specific AI champions to specific tiers. The randomness does little to help, and for anyone who has seen Zodiac Shaman even on tier 4, there is very little scary about that deck even with equipment.

New Champions would certainly spice it up but the AI needs to actually acquire the "I" in AI

IronPheasant
06-28-2015, 03:50 PM
I get bored HALFWAY through the arena, how do you guys do it? Is it just powering through? Do you go in to some sort of zen state? What? WHAT?

I think you're approaching the arena from a mistaken angle of it being a game. It isn't. Creating decks is the game.

The arena is a garnish for when you have podcasts (https://www.youtube.com/user/PatTheNESpunk/videos) or some other audio to listen to (tv/movies count too). Having a meal at hand helps, too.

If you see me talking way too damn much in chat (and I do do that), that's pretty much a sign I've run out of anything I feel like listening to.


Zodiac Shaman

Incredibly enough, I actually lost a game to this one once somehow. You might not know it from how he spends all his mana on creating resources from his Pacts of Lifes 99.999999% of the time, but his deck actually has one (1) threat in it: Ozawa.

Flairina
06-28-2015, 04:14 PM
I think you're approaching the arena from a mistaken angle of it being a game. It isn't. Creating decks is the game.

The arena is a garnish for when you have podcasts (https://www.youtube.com/user/PatTheNESpunk/videos) or some other audio to listen to (tv/movies count too). Having a meal at hand helps, too.

If you see me talking way too damn much in chat (and I do do that), that's pretty much a sign I've run out of anything I feel like listening to.



Incredibly enough, I actually lost a game to this one once somehow. You might not know it from how he spends all his mana on creating resources from his Pacts of Lifes 99.999999% of the time, but his deck actually has one (1) threat in it: Ozawa.

Oh I know. But I'm not one of those players that has four of each legendary, so I don't have nearly as many options. I've used an orc deck, a wild buff deck, a sapphire control/fun deck (see below), a sapphire/blood mill deck, a diamond/blood lifegain-and-drain deck (which I made just before the frost ring came out, and was subsequently quite amused upon encountering paladin with it), a darkspire blood deck, etc etc etc. By this point I've grown very tired of it regardless of what I use though. God I can't wait for more pve, hunting for Urunaaz is soul crushing.

I once also ALMOST lost to Ozawa, playing my fun, fairly weak Holiday deck that was really really slow. He'd been using pact of life repeatedly, but I managed to get rid of it, though honestly I don't remember how (wasn't time ripple I don't think...). Ironically, that deck apparently isn't as weak as I thought, as I've gone perfect with it twice, having tried it... twice. :|

RamzaBehoulve
06-28-2015, 06:26 PM
If I spread it enough in the day, I can do 3x complete arena. More than that and I would kill myself out of boredom. It's horribly dull.

We are seriously missing 300-500g per win in random opponent proving grounds at the moment for variety.

Voormas
06-28-2015, 07:02 PM
I wish I could experiment with fun / zany decks, but what if that is the run where I finally meet Uruunaz and then I lose?

Kramer
06-28-2015, 07:50 PM
^^ I absolutely agree with Voormas' comments, I want to play fun decks but I refuse to until I see Urunaaz. At this point I just want to see him. Hopefully I can beat him.

Mejis
06-28-2015, 08:53 PM
^^ I absolutely agree with Voormas' comments, I want to play fun decks but I refuse to until I see Urunaaz. At this point I just want to see him. Hopefully I can beat him.

Yup, this too.

I have yet to see him, but I bet the one time I do I'll be playing some jank deck failure.

Voormas
06-28-2015, 10:46 PM
I almost saw him once (I saw his thing on the reward screen) when I was messing around with a new deck and wanted to change my equipment so I hit 'Withdraw' - this was when I was just starting with the arena so maybe 100+ runs ago and nothing since; I try not to think about it...

Mojumbo
06-28-2015, 10:58 PM
Arena is just a sequence of random AI with weird deck. There's no sense of progress and no sense of challenge. It's purely a grind and a boring one unfortunately.

I think we need to wait for the sense of progression (the might system? the RPG elements...etc).

Ya, progression would be great. Arena can get dull :(

ev1lb0b
06-29-2015, 12:16 AM
I give up on the arena being at all "fun."

5 of the last 6 arena runs I have run into Xarlox. The first 4 times he was the tier 2 or 3 boss. The 4th I got the tunneling challenge during Uzume tier 2 and lost in 3.

6th time I think I might have a chance at finally perfect clearing.
Nope, Xarlox gets a terrorantual off my first fucking card.


Could the arena just warn me ahead of time so I can just quit and not waste my time?

Arena is the first piece real of PVE we have seen and it's obvious that the poor AI is the reason we have such unbalanced and OP bosses such as Xarlox....without RNG deciding games/runs before the first card is dealt it would be too easy and we would all be complaining about a lack of 'challenge'.

I hope that the Arena hasn't set a precedent on what's to come PVE wise (poor AI reliant on 'cheating' to provide a 'challenge')

How long has HexEnt had to prove it has what it takes to create a decent AI now??

Khazrakh
06-29-2015, 01:32 AM
How long has HexEnt had to prove it has what it takes to create a decent AI now??

Hex is no CCG on rails where you only have that many possible interactions. The possibilities are endless, so creating a perfect AI (without creating Skynet) is next to impossible.
The AI will improve over time and it already did. I'm confident we'll see another step forward with the next PvE patch.

That said Xarlox won't be nerfed in any way, instead the other encounters will be brought to his level of challenge - something I'm really looking forward to.

Alamand
06-29-2015, 02:14 AM
Hex is no CCG on rails where you only have that many possible interactions. The possibilities are endless, so creating a perfect AI (without creating Skynet) is next to impossible.
The AI will improve over time and it already did. I'm confident we'll see another step forward with the next PvE patch.

That said Xarlox won't be nerfed in any way, instead the other encounters will be brought to his level of challenge - something I'm really looking forward to.

First off, CCG vs TCG has absolutely nothing to do with AI, unless they're going to suddenly release bots into trade chat I guess.

And I can definitely see why people would be doubtful about the AI of future encounters, it's not like the current AI problems are fringe cases that are hard to predict, but rather incredibly basic stuff like "don't use removal on your own troops" or "re-order blockers so you don't trade your 5/5 for a 1/1".

And Xarlox isn't challenging, he either gets early spiders and wins or doesn't and loses, with a small variable on if he gets extinction or not to drag the game out further. I really hope that kind of gameplay isn't the goal of future PvE.

As for the main topic, I think almost all the problems people have with arena would be solved by the introduction of mercs. Not only would you be able to play more kinds of decks and not just auto-lose to warbot or xarlox, you'll also be free to play fun decks and not worry about wasting a shot at Uruunaz.

So I find it really weird that they're waiting so long to implement such a simple feature. The only real work involved in adding mercenaries is designing them, other than that they just have to add a button to arena labeled "summon mercenary" and bring up a deck selection dialog to pick from decks saved with a merc hero and load that deck for the next round.

Mejis
06-29-2015, 02:47 AM
Hex is no CCG on rails where you only have that many possible interactions. The possibilities are endless, so creating a perfect AI (without creating Skynet) is next to impossible.
The AI will improve over time and it already did. I'm confident we'll see another step forward with the next PvE patch.

That said Xarlox won't be nerfed in any way, instead the other encounters will be brought to his level of challenge - something I'm really looking forward to.

Whilst creating a perfect skynet ai may indeed be impossible and, more importantly, undesireable, creating an AI that quickly reads the current situation and plays out a decision tree of many many nodes of possibilities and rapidly picks the optimal decision has already been achieved -- to my knowledge this is how that other games' Duels AI work (pretty sure there are articles on the way it works). By no means incredible and unexploitable, it is very solid and can plays very well on the hardest settings.

ev1lb0b
06-29-2015, 03:54 AM
Hex is no CCG on rails where you only have that many possible interactions. The possibilities are endless, so creating a perfect AI (without creating Skynet) is next to impossible.
The AI will improve over time and it already did. I'm confident we'll see another step forward with the next PvE patch.

That said Xarlox won't be nerfed in any way, instead the other encounters will be brought to his level of challenge - something I'm really looking forward to.

I lol'd when I read this, thank you for putting a little sunshine in my otherwise dreary winters day ;>

Making ALL encounters in Arena a pure roll of the dice (which is exactly what Xarlox is) would turn away most new players and a lot of existing players looking for a solid, engaging and challenging PVE experience in Hex. The Xarlox encounter isn't fun (based upon personal experience & the shear amount of forum posts complaining about this boss) and if that's the way the Arena and future PVE goes then Hex won't be the huge success we all want it to be.

I've played and replayed the original Duels Of The Plainswalkers many times over the years and that AI was solid (fewer cards and way less complexity than Hex) way back in '97, how far have we come since then?

cehu
06-29-2015, 04:15 AM
Ya, progression would be great. Arena can get dull :(

They are just too lazy to create a ranking system or profile page to track some stats...spellweaver infiniy wars all the crappy games have a ranked system even Hs started with one...hs ladder is lame imo but it has one

Khazrakh
06-29-2015, 04:35 AM
First off, CCG vs TCG has absolutely nothing to do with AI, unless they're going to suddenly release bots into trade chat I guess.

CCG was just a way to group those other games out there like Hearthstone, Infintiy Wars, the M&M CCG and so on.
They all have a more or less capable AI but it's a lot easier to build it because there are a lot less possible interactions.

Duels of the Plainswalkers is more or less a fair comparison although it has a lot less cards and possibilities build in as well. Also most encounters are hard coded and easy to predict - they have the same draw every match and a very simple decision tree making it super easy to play around it once you know what they do each turn. So yes, the AI may seem to be good at fist glance but it really isn't.
I really hope Hex isn't aiming for a simple (and abusable) decision tree like that. Sure it will take a lot longer to have a competitive AI but getting one is worth the wait in my book.

Regarding Xarlox - personally I think the amount of whining is plain hilarious, but we already have that other thread to discuss it.

Poetic
06-29-2015, 04:43 AM
Unfortunately I feel encounters will have to be cheap/unfair to be challenging too. I think this is too complex of a game with alot of interactions to make perfect AI. My hope is that it will be good enough and fun to keep people interested.

Mejis
06-29-2015, 04:59 AM
Duels of the Plainswalkers is more or less a fair comparison although it has a lot less cards and possibilities build in as well. Also most encounters are hard coded and easy to predict - they have the same draw every match and a very simple decision tree making it super easy to play around it once you know what they do each turn. So yes, the AI may seem to be good at fist glance but it really isn't.
I really hope Hex isn't aiming for a simple (and abusable) decision tree like that. Sure it will take a lot longer to have a competitive AI but getting one is worth the wait in my book.


Actually, in the 2015 version, you could build any deck you like and give it to the AI to play and it does a pretty impressive job of handling any deck. So no hard coding, or hard drawing, it's just a on-the-fly decision tree (or at least that's my understanding). It's about the one thing about the 2015 version that wasn't an utter mess.

Cainhu
06-29-2015, 05:58 AM
Hi,

There are many TCG's out there with somewhat competent AI, but that's not really a point. HEX AI strugles not only with the endless possibilities, but often with it's own deck. Just some examples of interesting plays from the AI I've seen in the last few days :

- buffing my unit with Incite Fury
- playing burn on a printed 3 toughness troop. Repeating the error 2 turns later
- Imp Hoodlums tries to gain control of artifact, already controlled by AI (another Imp played 2 turns ago)
- playing 2 burns and 2 ragefires on my attacking units in a single turn (and losing), instead of killing me with the same spells
- Inner Conflict on a troop, already under the effect of another Inner Conflict
- playing Volcannon and instanly exhausting about 8-9 robots/dwarfs... for no effect. (I guess all of them used for the ready Volcanon effect, without using the other) Leaving no blockers as result.

Also, the game has problems understanding abilities like first strike, invicible or the "-1/-1 if blocked" shard when blocking.

I think if an incompetent AI is only dangerous due to RNG combined with OP abilities then it won't offer a good experience in PvE for most of the playerbase. On the other hand, I'm sure the developers are aware of these issues, and hopefully AI will be more competent but less RNG/OPness in future PvE content.

Malakili
06-29-2015, 06:01 AM
That said Xarlox won't be nerfed in any way, instead the other encounters will be brought to his level of challenge - something I'm really looking forward to.

How many times do I have to say it: Xarlox isn't difficult or "challenging" he is an RNG that can screw you in some % of games. If that is the standard for "challenging" in PvE, it's just terrible.

Here's challenging: I lost a match in draft yesterday because a guy bluffed having a combat trick and I didn't block. I was playing around that combat trick, but the card he was actually holding was Stormcall and he was able to get in the next turn for exactly lethal behind tapping down my team because he had snuck through 3 extra damage the turn before. That's an interesting way to lose - getting out played or making a wrong decision.

That's just one trivial example from yesterday against a random guy in draft.

Losing because Xarlox milled 12 cards in the first 2 turns and all 3 Terrorantualas were there is not challenging or interesting. I don't care how difficult it is to make an AI that's actually interesting to play against, it's the weak link right now.

Khazrakh
06-29-2015, 06:54 AM
Losing because Xarlox milled 12 cards in the first 2 turns and all 3 Terrorantualas were there is not challenging or interesting. I don't care how difficult it is to make an AI that's actually interesting to play against, it's the weak link right now.

And I don't disagree with you, the example you gave above is exactly what I want the AI to be like in the future. But that will take time and a lot of iterations.

In theory Arena is about building a deck that can handle every encounter. Because of the poor AI right now it's just about building a deck that can farm Arena as fast as possible. Xarlox happens to be the one encounter that hoses those rush decks. Most control decks have no problem to deal with him but nobody would play them because it just takes a lot longer to clear the arena that way. I don't say Xarlox is super fun or interesting, but he's solid design, posing a certain challenge you'd have to consider when building your deck.

Vorpal
06-29-2015, 07:09 AM
^^ I absolutely agree with Voormas' comments, I want to play fun decks but I refuse to until I see Urunaaz. At this point I just want to see him. Hopefully I can beat him.

Same here. There are many 'fun' different decks I want to try but I can't, because that might be the single time I face Urunaaz.

Vorpal
06-29-2015, 07:13 AM
As far as Xarlox goes, it's really not a big deal in arena if you lose the occasional boss encounter here and there. You aren't supposed to have a 100% win rate. Xarlox is the only 'hard' encounter and that's due more to cheap tricks and cards than clever AI.

If we had mercs he wouldn't really be an issue to people, I think, or he would at least not rub people the wrong way so much.

Koz
06-29-2015, 07:25 AM
Hi,

There are many TCG's out there with somewhat competent AI, but that's not really a point. HEX AI strugles not only with the endless possibilities, but often with it's own deck. Just some examples of interesting plays from the AI I've seen in the last few days :

- buffing my unit with Incite Fury
- playing burn on a printed 3 toughness troop. Repeating the error 2 turns later
- Imp Hoodlums tries to gain control of artifact, already controlled by AI (another Imp played 2 turns ago)
- playing 2 burns and 2 ragefires on my attacking units in a single turn (and losing), instead of killing me with the same spells
- Inner Conflict on a troop, already under the effect of another Inner Conflict
- playing Volcannon and instanly exhausting about 8-9 robots/dwarfs... for no effect. (I guess all of them used for the ready Volcanon effect, without using the other) Leaving no blockers as result.

Also, the game has problems understanding abilities like first strike, invicible or the "-1/-1 if blocked" shard when blocking.

I think if an incompetent AI is only dangerous due to RNG combined with OP abilities then it won't offer a good experience in PvE for most of the playerbase. On the other hand, I'm sure the developers are aware of these issues, and hopefully AI will be more competent but less RNG/OPness in future PvE content.

Yes, the AI, at the very least, needs to learn how to play its cards on a basic level. I'm not talking about complex decisions here, I'm just talking about actually playing the cards correctly or at least when they have valid targets. I laugh every time Seaweed Behemoth plays a Storm Cloud...and then immediately sacs it for zero effect. Every. Single. Time. Or when Construct Foreman uses Heat Wave on an empty board. Or when Eurig creates a 0/0 Tower Hulk. Etc, etc...

And why, for the love of god, did they put Trial of Faith in Avenging Angels deck? That card is so bad that the "misplay" is simply playing the card at all! It's an insta win every time!

Flairina
06-29-2015, 07:42 AM
Yes, the AI, at the very least, needs to learn how to play its cards on a basic level. I'm not talking about complex decisions here, I'm just talking about actually playing the cards correctly or at least when they have valid targets. I laugh every time Seaweed Behemoth plays a Storm Cloud...and then immediately sacs it for zero effect. Every. Single. Time. Or when Construct Foreman uses Heat Wave on an empty board. Or when Eurig creates a 0/0 Tower Hulk. Etc, etc...

And why, for the love of god, did they put Trial of Faith in Avenging Angels deck? That card is so bad that the "misplay" is simply playing the card at all! It's an insta win every time!

Not every time, honestly. If AA uses it just before using his charge power, and then plays the angel... well, I HAVE actually died to that before. That's probably how he SHOULD be using trail of faith honestly, every time.

Showsni
06-29-2015, 08:03 AM
I just had a match yesterday where Avenging Angel used Trial of Faith to negate my 6/7 triple damage Cabalist by getting rid of all the cards in his hand. Was probably more of a fluke than a good play, though.

Koz
06-29-2015, 08:13 AM
I think I've won the following turn after he plays Trial of Faith every time, even when he plays an Angel afterward, but I tend to run fast agro decks so he's usually almost dead by the time he plays the Trial anyway

Xenavire
06-29-2015, 08:36 AM
I just had a match yesterday where Avenging Angel used Trial of Faith to negate my 6/7 triple damage Cabalist by getting rid of all the cards in his hand. Was probably more of a fluke than a good play, though.

*Check the void*

Repel
Solitary Exile
Blockers


...Oops. :p

Tinfoil
06-29-2015, 09:15 AM
I don't understand how people can put themselves through the hundreds of runs necessary to get the full AA set/up to a MILLION gold. Like, even "speedrunning" the arena, meaning I win in 3-5 turns usually, it takes me over an hour. I get bored HALFWAY through the arena, how do you guys do it? Is it just powering through? Do you go in to some sort of zen state? What? WHAT?!

(Seriously, props to those who do that, I continue to have no idea how.)

Selling extras for gold helps if you also play PvP.

poizonous
06-29-2015, 09:23 AM
If you are winning on turn 3-5 consistently there is little reason for the arena to last over an hour. I can beat it consistently at 40 minutes max

Flairina
06-29-2015, 09:28 AM
If you are winning on turn 3-5 consistently there is little reason for the arena to last over an hour. I can beat it consistently at 40 minutes max

Yes, well, watching videos seems to indicate Hex runs faster on other people's machines than it does on mine as well. Which is bizarre, as there is relatively little installed on this PC, and it's only about a year old. Don't know why this is, but if you have any suggestions on speeding the client up (other than making the screen as small as possible, already did that) I will be happy to hear them. :|

hex_colin
06-29-2015, 09:34 AM
Yes, well, watching videos seems to indicate Hex runs faster on other people's machines than it does on mine as well. Which is bizarre, as there is relatively little installed on this PC, and it's only about a year old. Don't know why this is, but if you have any suggestions on speeding the client up (other than making the screen as small as possible, already did that) I will be happy to hear them. :|

Actually, counter-intuitively, making the window smaller doesn't necessarily help performance. Windowed mode for games is frequently more of a resource hog than the full-screen alternative.

Flairina
06-29-2015, 09:47 AM
Actually, counter-intuitively, making the window smaller doesn't necessarily help performance. Windowed mode for games is frequently more of a resource hog than the full-screen alternative.

Really? That's odd, because windowed mode seemed to be a step up in speed from full screen. Weird... :?

thegreybetween
06-29-2015, 09:49 AM
I almost saw him once (I saw his thing on the reward screen) when I was messing around with a new deck and wanted to change my equipment so I hit 'Withdraw' - this was when I was just starting with the arena so maybe 100+ runs ago and nothing since; I try not to think about it...

Same here. Did a quick Tier 1 run with a deck to test some equipment, hit "withdraw" and had the Uruunaz screen. Last time I've ever withdrawn, LOL. Still waiting to actually encounter that damned dragon.

I have about 5 reliable Arena decks in my roster at this point, so I can keep up the variety a wee bit and still feel like I am not potentially throwing away an Uruunaz encounter. But generally, I agree with the sentiment that experimenting with purely fun decks is a bit too risky until the dragon has been slain. So it goes.

nicosharp
06-29-2015, 10:03 AM
I had a run last week that was just comical.
Ruby Orcs - consistent perfect runs, and I hit Malice Demon, Avalanche Giant, and Paladin of Nagaan in order T3, and they pummel me to death all by turn 4.
There is a huge level of variance in both your hand, and how the AI is able to perform with theirs, that the Arena is typically a unique experience everytime. While grinding can become quite monotonous and tedious, no run has been exactly the same.

I just wish Chark would make Uruu a set percentage chance per account, that increases over-time of not encountering him. While the uniqueness is fun to chase, it is also very frustrating to both folks farming, and folks that want the accomplishment for the first time.

fitzle
06-29-2015, 10:12 AM
I ran into Uruunaz on the test server before arena came out and haven't seen him since. The test server completely ruined my chances of ever seeing him again! :p

Vorpal
06-29-2015, 11:14 AM
Instead of hogarth giving you the +5 health bonus, have him make it more likely Uru appears in the current run.

plaguedealer
06-29-2015, 11:20 AM
If Uru is going to show up more hex is going to need to nerf the amount of gold he gives. I want gold to be valuable.

Salverus
06-29-2015, 11:23 AM
remove the entire 100k gold that drops from uruunaz, i dont care. I want to fight him.
Pretty sad that he is so rare many even doubt he exists in the first place.

nicosharp
06-29-2015, 11:43 AM
remove the entire 100k gold that drops from uruunaz, i dont care. I want to fight him.
Pretty sad that he is so rare many even doubt he exists in the first place.
If the % is well controlled, and increases per account until an encounter - the gold reward could stay. There could be a hard cap on where the % climbs to, and a reset after an encounter to prevent exploitation.

plaguedealer
06-29-2015, 11:47 AM
If the % is well controlled, and increases per account until an encounter - the gold reward could stay. There could be a hard cap on where the % climbs to, and a reset after an encounter to prevent exploitation.

Now we are talking about diablo 3's legendary drop rate. I am not a fan of that for hex. It might be ok for other encounters. However, any increase in a uru appearance would decrease the value of gold if the amount stays the same

poizonous
06-29-2015, 11:48 AM
How about he appears more often but everytime he does he drops 50% less gold and stays at 12.5k after 4 or more encounters so in other words 1st encounter win 100K 2nd win 50k 3rd win 25k and 4 or more 12.5k

nicosharp
06-29-2015, 11:52 AM
Now we are talking about diablo 3's legendary drop rate. I am not a fan of that for hex. It might be ok for other encounters. However, any increase in a uru appearance would decrease the value of gold if the amount stays the same
Yeah, that is true in a sense - like the paragon level thing? An increase per account does not have to "increase" his appearance rate, it just spreads the wealth across accounts, not limiting the appearance to a few lucky individuals, that may get 10 Uruu's before others see him once.

plaguedealer
06-29-2015, 11:55 AM
How about he appears more often but everytime he does he drops 50% less gold and stays at 12.5k after 4 or more encounters so in other words 1st encounter win 100K 2nd win 50k 3rd win 25k and 4 or more 12.5k

Value of gold decreases and so does burrowing leech, which may be a great card in the future. Any increase in drop rate with gold attached will decrease gold's value.

Poiz your system would also encourage people to farm on multiple accounts. It is against tos but there would be a incentive.

poizonous
06-29-2015, 11:58 AM
Incentive would be there but it isnt like he is going to show up frequent enough to make people want to do it, while he would show up more, i still expect the rate to be somewhere between 20-40 runs.

Salverus
06-29-2015, 11:58 AM
funny how all the people that have met him several times already (mostly in the first week of launch) keep asking to have him rare and comes up with literally every single reason they can think of.
While everyone else asks to increase his spawn rate.

plaguedealer
06-29-2015, 12:00 PM
funny how all the people that have met him several times already (mostly in the first week of launch) keep asking to have him rare and comes up with literally every single reason they can think of.
While everyone else asks to increase his spawn rate.

I just dont want the pve economy to be uterly destroyed.

poizonous
06-29-2015, 12:01 PM
@Salverus Ive seen him twice, but i still think he could use an increase in sightings.

The logic behind both arguments are simple
The people who have killed him want their stuff to stay valuable and that only happens if he stays as rare as he is
The people who havent seen him want to stop using the best decks so in case they see him they dont have to worry about playing a bad deck

nicosharp
06-29-2015, 12:06 PM
As a rough example:
Let's say right now Chark has Uruu Appearance rate set to 0.1% per encounter after T1. Across the board. He is evil, and that is probably a damn-near accurate %.
If you switch this to account based it could start at 0.05% per encounter.
After an arena clear with no Uruu sighting and a successful T4 boss kill, it ticks up to 0.06%.
This could raise to lets say 5% before it hardcaps.
That is 95 T4 Boss clears before you hit a 1% chance per encounter after T1...
495 T4 Boss clears before you hit the 5% hardcap. Happy hunting.

Voormas
06-29-2015, 03:05 PM
I would pay 200,000 gold for a map that guaranteed an Uruunaz encounter

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 03:52 PM
I would pay 200,000 gold for a map that guaranteed an Uruunaz encounter

At this point I'm inclined to agree. Pretty burned out on Arena, but still poke through it occasionally just because I've never seen Uruunaz.

Phenteo
06-29-2015, 05:26 PM
At this point I'm inclined to agree. Pretty burned out on Arena, but still poke through it occasionally just because I've never seen Uruunaz.

You quit out of an arena run early in the recent past where he was in play. :(

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 05:36 PM
You quit out of an arena run early in the recent past where he was in play. :(

Noooo, I almost never quit early. It must of been the run where I grabbed the wrong deck and/or didn't like the new one I was trying. That's just mean Phenteo.

But to be fair, I haven't played arena NEARLY as much as others who haven't seen him.

Voormas
06-29-2015, 06:19 PM
You quit out of an arena run early in the recent past where he was in play. :(My in-game name is Helekar in case you want to confirm that I'm not just stirring unicornpoop

Like I get why it has to be a low percentage rate right now but it's just brutal

Mejis
06-29-2015, 06:39 PM
You quit out of an arena run early in the recent past where he was in play. :(

Any chance you can see whether I've done the same Phenteo? ign: mejis

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 06:44 PM
You've opened the flood gates now Phenteo, serves you right.

Diesbudt
06-29-2015, 07:55 PM
I would be surprised if I didn't miss an appearance from quitting early. With all the deck testing I did. Lol

Flairina
06-29-2015, 10:17 PM
I never quit early because I haven't tested a deck in forever. So I've just never seen him period.

Parzival
06-29-2015, 11:48 PM
Uruunaz is not a destination, it's a journey.

Phenteo cannot show you Uruunaz , you must experience it.

:cool:

thegreybetween
06-30-2015, 10:02 AM
Nice, Zee...But somehow I doubt "Buen Camino" is the platitude we dragon-starved are seeking :p

EntropyBall
06-30-2015, 02:09 PM
I think I've won the following turn after he plays Trial of Faith every time, even when he plays an Angel afterward, but I tend to run fast agro decks so he's usually almost dead by the time he plays the Trial anyway

Avenging Angel trolls me in what seems like 50% of my games by getting a free Guardian Angel on t2.

Phenteo
06-30-2015, 02:29 PM
You've opened the flood gates now Phenteo, serves you right.

<3

Flairina
06-30-2015, 02:43 PM
Avenging Angel trolls me in what seems like 50% of my games by getting a free Guardian Angel on t2.

Yeah, those are pretty much insta death unless you went first or are playing control (Sapphire is nice against him, particularly Time Ripple). I rather appreciate when his power hits his AoDs, since they would've gotten played for free anyways and he gets no extra benefit.

Jonesy
06-30-2015, 03:15 PM
Like Nico said, could move to a system like Dota has--http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Pseudo-random_distribution--in which the overall percentage is unchanged there are just less success and failure streaks and the more runs you do without Uruunaz the more likely you are to see Uruunaz in the next one.

Warrender
07-01-2015, 03:16 AM
I must be approaching near 100% certainty now under that system.

I propose a hybrid system. Until a player gets an Uruunaz kill, their percentage to meet him goes up incrementally. I would cap that chance to be the same as a hard boss appearance like Xarlox in order to not dissuade players who are not ready for such a challenge. After they get the kill, it can go back to whatever flat percentage it is now.