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nicosharp
06-29-2015, 02:45 PM
So, as we are about to get hit with a huge content patch, have many people been thinking about Guilds more?
What features would you find valuable to have when Guilds go-live. What is essential vs. nice to have?

Here are some of my thoughts:

Tiers and permissions: Essential
Guild ranking system - Guild Leader could set. That has different permissions associated to different ranks.
Regarding Guild Invites / Ability to Rank other members / Ability to use Guild Bank / Ability to host guild events

Player-to-Player trade: Essential (in some form)
Before guilds it would be nice to have placeholder functionality for Player to Player trade.
This could be as simple as expanding C.O.D through mail to stand for Cards On Delivery. Where a player is able to set a C.O.D. not based solely on Plat and Gold, but on any item stash item etc.

The above lends itself to
Guild Banks: Essential
A place where players can dump extra cards or items
Records would be kept of transactions that take place in the guild bank
Authorization requests would be prompted for trades with the guild bank by higher level guildmates.
Threshold settings for withdraws/deposits.
Notation section or message section to explain functionality.

Guild Events: Essential (at some point)
Options to setup and host a guild event.
Prize distribution setting (or notation)
Fee to enter (or notation) (There may be a fee that goes to HEX for allowing these to be hosted within the guild)
Deckbuilding rules (if enforceable within the set parameters, great - if not, notation).
Format

Guild Banner / Logo - in-game / player acknowledgement: Nice to have
not much to say here, could be cool in-game options of a banner or logo - maybe additional options can be acquired through achievements or gold unlocks

Guild Calendar: Nice to have
Helpful tool to attach messages to days.

Guild EXP or Arbitrary unlock system: Nice to have
A way to have in-game acts contribute to guild XP, and some cosmetic rewards for "leveling-up".

Guild Chat

A lot of the above could have in-game fees associated to it being unlocked. Some may even have Plat fees like options to create and host inner-guild tournaments.

Original Request from Cory:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26820

Voormas
06-29-2015, 03:26 PM
I don't think that they are going to have a "traditional" guild-bank, which I kinda agree with because there is no real up-side (we can already trade player-to-player) and it would take a lot of work to implement / can cause HUGE amounts of drama / etc

As to things that I would like to see implemented (that haven't already been mentioned), I just want whatever XP system gets implemented to make people who backed the kickstarter at Guild Leader not feel like they made a mistake while also not making it essential to be in a guild that has a kickstarter as the GM - it's gonna be tough!

Salverus
06-29-2015, 03:33 PM
a lease function for the guild bank instead of a take / give bank would be nice.
And maybe the option for the guild leader to 'broadcast' a message to all guild members that are online, so they get a small pop up, just like the current broadcast that nobles can do.

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 03:33 PM
I don't think that they are going to have a "traditional" guild-bank, which I kinda agree with because there is no real up-side (we can already trade player-to-player) and it would take a lot of work to implement / can cause HUGE amounts of drama / etc


Guild bank would provide easier and faster access to guild resources. Every other MMO I've played also had player to player trading in addition to guild banks. Not sure what "traditional" is, but we need a guild bank with much of the same functionality that exists in many other MMO's.

Bombs
06-29-2015, 03:35 PM
One day.....in the far, far future.....Guild Sleeves?

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 03:36 PM
One day.....in the far, far future.....Guild Sleeves?

From guild achievements maybe? That would be sweet

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 03:51 PM
Guild bank would provide easier and faster access to guild resources. Every other MMO I've played also had player to player trading in addition to guild banks. Not sure what "traditional" is, but we need a guild bank with much of the same functionality that exists in many other MMO's.

The fact that this is a trading card games changes how items are viewed though, this isn't just loaning out some crafting materials. I'm just guessing but I would also be very surprised if we ended up with a guild bank that was as simple as loading it up with cards and members can borrow them when they need.

BKCshah
06-29-2015, 03:56 PM
Guild Decks for In-House Play/Testing -- Yes, liked the idea when it was pitched during an interview.

Guild Bank for Loaning Cards -- Not a fan.

Players can manage that on their own through relationships they developed in the game. However, the drama that ensues when someone eventually runs away with the guild bank almost makes it worthwhile.

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 04:06 PM
Loaning cards in the guild bank? I'd like to be able to just give them away in there. If you are scared of having your guild bank robbed then use some of nicos suggestions, or don't use the guild bank with your guild.

Thrawn
06-29-2015, 04:14 PM
It's not about stuff being stolen, it's about the question of why would people need to buy cards from Hex anymore if they can just get in a guild with a big enough bank that allows loaning cards.

thegreybetween
06-29-2015, 04:21 PM
As part of a PvE guild, I'm hoping to see some features which streamline that content a bit:

- Some sort of raid coordination/promotion tool within the guild chat interface. I imagine it as a box that an online Raid Leader could check to ping online guildmates that they're looking to host a raid (it should be optional for the Raid Leader so that they don't get spammed for raid requests when they're not in that mood).

- Guild Keeps (for keep defense) with hopefully a robust system for management of it. Being able to easily delegate/assign deck-building, keep upgrading, and other functions to various members within the system would greatly mitigate the hassle of forum coordination/admin implementation.

- Guild Champions for PvE with enough slots to realize any given race/class option. This way, guildmates could "test drive" various builds - with proceeds going to the guild - while they're deciding how to commit their limited character slots with their own account.

- On a related note, it would be great if guilds could have a standing roster of Mercenaries that could be hired out to guildmates for gold, as a way to mitigate the bind-on-use restriction for chase mercs. Alternatively, provide an interface wherein any guildmate who has unlocked a given merc can "lease" it to other guildmates for some fee payable per run that hires that merc.

Those are just the first things to come to mind in addition to many of the (excellent) feature suggestions already posted.

israel.kendall
06-29-2015, 04:44 PM
It's not about stuff being stolen, it's about the question of why would people need to buy cards from Hex anymore if they can just get in a guild with a big enough bank that allows loaning cards.

Cool, then we just make guild banks that don't "loan cards".

Thoom
06-29-2015, 05:43 PM
One of the things Guild Wars 2 did right (though they implemented it poorly for the first 3 years of the game) was letting you join multiple guilds. Since I imagine guilds will be most people's primary social interaction with the game once implemented, it would be a shame if joining one guild cut you off from hanging out with other parts of the community that you also like.

Voormas
06-29-2015, 07:45 PM
One of the things Guild Wars 2 did right (though they implemented it poorly for the first 3 years of the game) was letting you join multiple guilds. Since I imagine guilds will be most people's primary social interaction with the game once implemented, it would be a shame if joining one guild cut you off from hanging out with other parts of the community that you also like.

This is pretty interesting and not something I had considered before; part of joining a guild is wearing that as like a badge so you would still need to have like a "primary" guild but the biggest part is the social aspect and sometimes you have friends who cant / wont join a certain guild but that doesn't mean you aren't going to hang out

Plus there are a ton of kickstarter Guild Leaders who would probably appreciate the ability to use their perk even if they choose to join a different "primary" guild

edit: plus that would be a pretty cool way to handle Alliances if there aren't already plans for that

RobHaven
06-29-2015, 08:01 PM
On a related note, it would be great if guilds could have a standing roster of Mercenaries that could be hired out to guildmates for gold, as a way to mitigate the bind-on-use restriction for chase mercs. Alternatively, provide an interface wherein any guildmate who has unlocked a given merc can "lease" it to other guildmates for some fee payable per run that hires that merc.

I understand why the suggestion was made, but I can't really get behind it. Why make mercs bind-on-use at all if they're just going to let you bypass the restriction by being in a guild? I like the idea of "chase" mercs and the fact that it will be impossible to have every merc on one account. I don't see the value in circumventing that.

Stok3d
06-29-2015, 09:27 PM
Cory's Solicitation on Guilds (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26820) has some great ideas to reference as well.

nicosharp
06-29-2015, 09:30 PM
From Cory's Solicitation on Guilds (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26820)
No updates since then Stok3d?

Stok3d
06-29-2015, 09:35 PM
No updates since then Stok3d?

Last I remember on an update was a QA (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38969) via Cory last November with a nice summary of the 40x pages listed at Hex Primal (http://www.hexprimal.com/state-of-the-game-cory-jones-qa-summary/)

nicosharp
06-29-2015, 09:38 PM
Last I remember on an update was an interview via Cory last November at Hex Primal (http://www.hexprimal.com/state-of-the-game-cory-jones-qa-summary/)

I meant more along the lines of what you'd like to see. Have you considered adding to the list/modifying it?

Stok3d
06-29-2015, 10:09 PM
I meant more along the lines of what you'd like to see. Have you considered adding to the list/modifying it?

Honestly, I haven't really thought too much regarding guilds since. My mind tends to wander on ideas regarding:

Defend Your Keep (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26824)
Creating your own Raid Boss (Can't find the thread)
Chris Wood's next PVE creations

Xenavire
06-30-2015, 02:09 AM
I understand why the suggestion was made, but I can't really get behind it. Why make mercs bind-on-use at all if they're just going to let you bypass the restriction by being in a guild? I like the idea of "chase" mercs and the fact that it will be impossible to have every merc on one account. I don't see the value in circumventing that.

See, there are some of us that don't want bound mercs at all. If there could be a middle ground, that would make the majority fairly happy.

thegreybetween
06-30-2015, 09:50 AM
I understand why the suggestion was made, but I can't really get behind it. Why make mercs bind-on-use at all if they're just going to let you bypass the restriction by being in a guild? I like the idea of "chase" mercs and the fact that it will be impossible to have every merc on one account. I don't see the value in circumventing that.

To follow up on what Xenavire said, this is intended as some form of middle ground. And it doesn't need to be limited to guilds; it could be a general (even AH-supported) system in which a player with a bound merc could "lease" it to another player for an agreed-upon fee. In this way, the owner of the chase merc still gets to reap "value" in the form of hiring fees (and in truth it enhances the value in some respects, because a bound merc is a dead commercial opportunity) and unbound mercs will still retain the bulk of their value as players not only collect, but wish to avoid pay-on-demand for favorite mercs.

I see it as a way to avoid completely limiting access to some content to all players in a way that still provides a worthwhile incentive for the players who took advantage of the opportunity when it was available. What is better: A merc that you can sell one time for $50 that you'll never see again, or a merc that you can actually play with and gradually recoup gold/plat/loot over time that might only sell for $20? In a big-picture sense, leasing mercs is a potentially awesome compromise.

Plus it makes thematic sense, mercs being out for the highest bidder and all of that.

In general, I am a much greater advocate for the complete game experience. Economic policies that encourage us not to play with our toys ("MINT IN BOX!!") ruin games. I want to think of HEX as a game that I play with some value as a perk, not as a market to exploit that is sometimes entertaining. There is too much focus on value around here. Let's just play.

Thoom
06-30-2015, 12:03 PM
On top of that, if you can only lease your merc to one player at a time, then rare mercs are still going to be hard to come by. It's like having a rich friend and getting to drive their Bugatti once in a while. You get a taste of the experience, but it's very much not the same as ownership.

Ertzi
06-30-2015, 12:25 PM
In general, I am a much greater advocate for the complete game experience. Economic policies that encourage us not to play with our toys ("MINT IN BOX!!") ruin games. I want to think of HEX as a game that I play with some value as a perk, not as a market to exploit that is sometimes entertaining. There is too much focus on value around here. Let's just play.

I agree 100%. I have been preaching the same message from time to time. I am glad to know there are others who have a similar mindset. I would make every single thing in the game more available and/or cheap if I had the power. The more people that have all the toys the merrier. Dat value though.

selpai
06-30-2015, 01:20 PM
It's not about stuff being stolen, it's about the question of why would people need to buy cards from Hex anymore if they can just get in a guild with a big enough bank that allows loaning cards.

I thought about it for a minute, and i decided that a traditional guild bank simply wouldn't work in Hex. That doesn't mean that we can't have our own proprietary system for this game though. What about a system where you permanently dedicate whole cards to the creation of decks that you can loan out to guild members for PvE only? Like, cards would be permanently and irrevocably added to a guild card bank, and certain ranks within the guild could organize the decks to be loaned out for a time.

Am i the only one who doesn't like how casual guild systems are in most games? There should be some barrier for exit, or even a cost to stay (guild dues?). The options should be there. What about only being able to join one guild ever, until the guild is dissolved? They could be competitive. There could be tons of interesting features that make the Hex communities unique, if only HexEnt has the desire to innovate.

Xenavire
06-30-2015, 01:35 PM
I thought about it for a minute, and i decided that a traditional guild bank simply wouldn't work in Hex. That doesn't mean that we can't have our own proprietary system for this game though. What about a system where you permanently dedicate whole cards to the creation of decks that you can loan out to guild members for PvE only? Like, cards would be permanently and irrevocably added to a guild card bank, and certain ranks within the guild could organize the decks to be loaned out for a time.

Am i the only one who doesn't like how casual guild systems are in most games? There should be some barrier for exit, or even a cost to stay (guild dues?). The options should be there. What about only being able to join one guild ever, until the guild is dissolved? They could be competitive. There could be tons of interesting features that make the Hex communities unique, if only HexEnt has the desire to innovate.

People have to be able to leave when they want to, and there shouldn't be things to discourage people from joining a guild. The point of a guild is to be a group of people actively playing the game together, and any sort of punishment for doing that makes this a 1 player game, with at best only a tiny handful of massive guilds.

The game simply can't work that way.

I think the guild bank idea has to allow for the deposit and withdrawal of items as well as have the deck 'loaning' feature, but both should be behind restrictions of sorts. I mean, I would happily dump all my spare commons (barring what I might need for crafting) in order to entice new players to join The Lions Share - I often just give away cards, and if the guild interface could automate a lot of that I would be pretty pleased. That doesn't mean everyone will be getting rares and legendaries by the bucketload however.

The main reason to have it though is for crafting material, stardust, equipment... Things that one player may have zero use for and just wants to donate it. This could also lead up to having tangible prize pools for guild events through donations alone, and not having to ask entry fees. I think it would greatly help a guild feel more social when people have a way to communally share items, and honestly, not having a guild bank will just slow people down, not stop them. I already lend guild members cards (Black Roger actually took a Megahulk or two for his reserves in the shard cup and gave them back later) and I think thats great.

I am against just dropping in and having infinite borrowing among all members though, since all it would take is 1 playset and everyone could play for free.

selpai
06-30-2015, 01:45 PM
Not if you restrict guild size Xenavire, and have more and smaller guilds. I think you're just obstinate in regards to major change. The system that you outline doesn't seem particularly competitive or even engaging. Just more of the same old trash. I mean, i don't exactly expect innovation; not really. But it would be nice if they made the attempt. It's not so much about restricting player behavior as it is creating a system that incentivizes certain ones over others.

I imagine a system where there are a wide variety of rules and parameters to set for guilds and it's members. Having the ability to request guild dues for certain activities, or even as a recurring membership fee would be only a small part of that. The dues that are paid could go towards personal guild rank for access to guild owned card decks, upgrades to keeps/tiered-features/etc., and ultimately to the guild master and anyone of appropriate rank according the options set by each guild. There would be incentive for players to join and contribute to their own guild, competition for recruiting members, and all kinds of other neat micro-social implications. New players could join, create, manage, improve newer guilds with lower fees/dues; older/richer players could join guilds with more resources/benefits, but pay higher dues. It's just a thought, and definitely not as well thought out as it could be, but at least it's not the same boring trash that every other game has.

Obviously i wasn't clear in how i detailed my thoughts. The system i have in mind is this. Guild members could permanently give the guild bank cards, and no one could have direct access to those cards again, or until the guild dissolved. Guild masters, or anyone of an appropriate rank could use those cards, in a custom card manager, to create and manage decks that the guild owns. Those decks in turn could be what guild members borrow out of the guild bank, for a period of time or number of PvE matches set by the guild options. Decks of this type could only be used for PvE content. Cards permanently donated to the guild could be a part of guild dues/fees (not every guild would have to have these), and giving a certain amount of gold/cards to the guild could be a part of a guilds requirements to gain certain ranks or advance.

nicetodd
06-30-2015, 01:46 PM
I would like guild features at this stage to be:

Create guild
Add members/officers
Get some use out of GM exp bonus, which isn't even clear what exp applies to anymore
Guild bank (simple WoW style fine for now)

I imagine we'll have this in two years time.

Thrawn
06-30-2015, 01:48 PM
Not if you restrict guild size Xenavire. I think you're just obstinate in regards to major change.

Major change to what? We currently have no guild system at all. Any discussion is just that, discussion. No need to immediately attack someone.

In regards to PvP at least they simply can't just allow full lending of unlimited copies of a card, it would have too large of an impact on card values. Even if you restricted to a smaller guild size, people would just make more guilds then.

nicosharp
06-30-2015, 01:51 PM
The Guild functionality and features need to be very broad and all-encompassing.
Really... until Raiding, there is not much besides a poorly functioning global chat to make this game stand-out as an MMO.
Guilds will really tie it together for a large demographic, and I hope they cram a lot of value into the guild experience.

selpai
06-30-2015, 02:44 PM
Major change to what?
To the typical guild system, that is boring, played out, and every single MMO has but refuses to innovate on. I still see a potential future for Hex, but i don't currently see a lot of innovation, or even development at all.

nicosharp
06-30-2015, 03:02 PM
To the typical guild system, that is boring, played out, and every single MMO has but refuses to innovate on. I still see a potential future for Hex, but i don't currently see a lot of innovation, or even development at all.
Lot going on behind the scenes. HEX is innovating. Innovators don't openly tout what they are doing, and don't openly let you stand behind the curtains.
Why?
Because that's how you get quick and cheap China knock-offs.

When it's ready, before it is released, we will get a good teaser.

I disagree with some comments others have made about Guild-banks. The guild set the parameters, but still, personal collections do not equal guild collections. Items that go into a guild-bank could have various limitations. Like Rares and Legendary cards have a 24 hour clear-time before they can be "acquired". Of course, permissions can be set that withdraws and deposits need to be accepted first. There could be global limits on withdraws per day/etc. I don't see the bank as a way to give players access to cards they would otherwise not have access to, but as an easier way to trade between guild-members, and a way to help new members that are starting out. Rarity and value will still define itself, whether or not the guild is tremendously wealthy, and most of those cards will remain in personal collections.

selpai
06-30-2015, 03:10 PM
I don't like the idea of cards being able to be withdrawn from guild banks at all. It has too many negative consequences for a CCG.

nicosharp
06-30-2015, 03:17 PM
I don't like the idea of cards being able to be withdrawn from guild banks at all. It has too many negative consequences for a CCG.
So, you prefer to continue to have a tedious system that force players to send mail to each other?
Added layers of complexity will still have players navigate around it to come to the same f'n conclusions.
I don't understand why we create artificial barriers to arrive at the same conclusions...
One glaring example is HEX choosing to make a stance against players that sell plat third party, but not against players that sell cards third party, and not against Gameforge for selling discounted plat to G2A.com...

and with all that said... I guess a Guild bank is just another artificial barrier.. LOL. :rolleyes:

selpai
06-30-2015, 03:21 PM
No, i already detailed the sort of system that i would like to see. It's a page back, here. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44100&page=3&p=501052&viewfull=1#post501052)

nicosharp
06-30-2015, 03:26 PM
No, i already detailed the sort of system that i would like to see. It's a page back, here. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44100&page=3&p=501052&viewfull=1#post501052)
Guild crafting through card destruction... There are a ton of different ways to achieve some sort of player input for the collective guild's interest - I guess it's just in how they arrange it. I'd much rather see cards and gold and plat input in such a way, that when the guild hosts a tournament it's divvy'd out accordingly. Lot of different ideas around this.. I'm not sure what will stick, but they will eventually have some sort of sink associated to guilds. I'd still like to see an application for guilds though that allow easier access to cards for newer players/guild-members

selpai
06-30-2015, 03:30 PM
No reason that they can't all be features. They don't exactly conflict with each other. I just don't want to see the same old crap that's in every other MMO. Crafting and construction, collective guild banks for deposit/withdrawal. By themselves that's what those things are, the same old stuff. Copy and paste.

I would like to add, that with restrictions/barriers on the number of members a guild can have, comes the necessity for a barrier on entry for the creation of guilds. A bazillion smaller guilds can be just as bad as only a few large ones.

Ertzi
06-30-2015, 04:46 PM
I really hope we will be able to switch between guilds, or have the option to be a 'guest' at another, or something like that. I have never even thought about creating a guild in any game, but with HEX I would like to create one small guild for me and my friends and still be able to interact with a larger guild, because my friends might not be as active as I will be. I usually always join a huge guild, which ends up being not too enjoyable for me, because I want to know everyone in my guild and actually chat with them and get to know them. There are always faster players in a guild as well, who then spoil pretty much everything cool about PvE in the chat.

With large guilds, the sheer number of players can be slightly off-putting to me as well. At least this has been the case in other games, when there are new recruits every day and most people are just names on a roster. On the other hand, raiding would be a lot easier with a large guild, and there would be a lot more fun events, so I hope we can somehow juggle guilds or do something similar.

I do not know if I am getting old or what, but a hectic guild with hundreds of players might not be for me anymore. But it could be cool to participate in their shenanigans from time to time. I need a tight group of close friends to go adventuring with in HEX (I will be very selective with recruiting, but all the members will be awesome). Who knows, with HEX there might not be any problems like I mentioned before, as the community is still relatively small. However, if there ever was a game I want to establish a guild of my own in, it is HEX. I have always wanted to try that. Therefore, if I have to choose I will just be on my own, but that would kinda suck too.

So please, HexEnt, do not force us into choosing a single guild permanently. I am greedy, so I want the best of both worlds. :)

Thrawn
06-30-2015, 04:47 PM
So please, HexEnt, do not force us into choosing a single guild permanently. I am greedy, so I want the best of both worlds. :)

I'm pretty sure that's not an actual worry. That would be a terrible decision with a lot of bad results.

Xenavire
06-30-2015, 04:55 PM
Not if you restrict guild size Xenavire, and have more and smaller guilds.

See, theres another terrible idea. What arbitrary limit would you set? 10? 30? 100? I think that guilds should have only a cap when it becomes a pain to track things (so maybe in the 300-500 range.) Because that is what is going to appeal to some people.

I want a feature that is appealing to use, not encourage guild masters to tax players, or force people to give up cards and then never see them again, etc. I am against all of your ideas not because I object to change, but because I actually want to have fun with my guildmates. I just don't see your ideas as fun.

selpai
06-30-2015, 05:36 PM
See, theres another terrible idea. What arbitrary limit would you set? 10? 30? 100? I think that guilds should have only a cap when it becomes a pain to track things (so maybe in the 300-500 range.) Because that is what is going to appeal to some people.

Again, it's not about hard limits on player behavior or interaction. It's about incentivizing certain behaviors over others. I imagine a system where it is progressively more costly to increase the size of the guild, but that's hardly the only means that could be used and it's ultimately uninspiring. The question is, what sort of community do you want to see encouraged? A few large guilds can be anti-competitive and make the game less engaging, and too many small guilds can seem overwhelming.

No one suggested forcing guilds to tax players. What was suggested was giving guilds the ability and therefor the incentive to do so. You're so fixed up in hard limits and rigid systems. It's kind of tired, and a tiring attitude to engage with.

It would just be a real shame to see the same boring systems that every other MMO uses, be used in Hex. A big studio can't do it, they can't innovate like Hex can. They have investors, and bosses; tiers of management with their own rigid marketing and productions plans. Hex has the potential to be more than that, but i see people like you clamoring for the same old crap. You're so used to re-skinned engines and mechanics, that you can't imagine anything else. And you know what? I'm simply not satisfied with that.

Xenavire
06-30-2015, 05:50 PM
Again, it's not about hard limits on player behavior or interaction. It's about incentivizing certain behaviors over others. I imagine a system where it is progressively more costly to increase the size of the guild, but that's hardly the only means that could be used and it's ultimately uninspiring. The question is, what sort of community do you want to see encouraged? A few large guilds can be anti-competitive and make the game less engaging, and too many small guilds can seem overwhelming. It would just be a real shame to see the same boring systems that every other MMO uses, be used in Hex.

Any limits you put on will have implications. And what I envision is a similar system to what other MMO's have had, but iterated on in good, creative ways. I don't want to slap a bunch of arbitrary restrictions onto the design and call it 'innovative'.

Hex actually has some advantages over other MMO's, in that there is less of a focus on 'MMO' - dungeons are solo, raids are 3 players, max. And with no lockouts on content (as far as we know), that gives guilds flexibility that hasn't been seen much before - raiding guilds could have hundreds of active raiders that can help each other at pretty much any time, rather than one or two core groups raiding the content at set times during a week. This allows any kind of guild to be any kind of size - we could see 'hardcore' guilds that are only 10 people strong, and some that are in the hundreds. Casucal guilds with only 5 members, and others with 50, or 100, all that just play for fun.

What I am looking for is a system that scales nicely to any guild size. One that gives players a reason to log in and be social. One that can be engaging and at times challenging. I would love achievements and milestones. I would love cosmetics. guild competitions. What I don't want is to see guilds turned into gold-sinks, or be forced to be small, or be overly restrictive to create or join... The choice to join or create a guild should be completely up to the player, and the less restrictions for entry the better. The only real requirement for having a place in a guild is fitting in and getting the standard permission/invite.

selpai
06-30-2015, 06:00 PM
We're on pretty much the same page, however you're still focused on hard limits and what the game should allow. Ideally, i want to see players given the tools to do whatever they want and have the community sort the rest out. Barring the impossible however, i would like to see more freedom for the structure and function of guilds. Incentives for every sort of player behavior imaginable, and discouragement for the ones that detract or undermine desired behaviors and game functions. You know, i didn't like the plat floor in the Auction House, at first; but the more i engaged and the more that was added, the more i came to see the wisdom in it.

If you think about it for a while, i imagine that you will see how having a sort of barrier on entry for the creation of guilds would help to keep guilds meaningful, engaging, and competitive. Maybe a gold or plat fee? Size works in theory, but that theory has been time tested, time and again and found lacking.

Xenavire
06-30-2015, 06:06 PM
We're on pretty much the same page, however you're still focused on hard limits and what the game should allow. Ideally, i want to see players given the tools to do whatever they want and have the community sort the rest out. Barring the impossible however, i would like to see more freedom for the structure and function of guilds. Incentives for every sort of player behavior imaginable, and discouragement for the ones that detract or undermine desired behaviors and game functions. You know, i didn't like the plat floor in the Auction House, at first; but the more i engaged and the more that was added, the more i came to see the wisdom in it.

What I don't get is why you want to put dues into the client. People can do that outside of the client through 'contracts' etc - it doesn't need to be enabled in-game. Depending on how things were set up, dues could turn into the worst kind of pyramid scheme (I saw similar behaviour in WoW when a guild leader would just up and take all the banked gold, items, etc, and then disband or sell the guild.)

I'd rather discourage that sort of behaviour, and I think allowing it outside of the client features would still achieve what you want.

I definitely don't agree about trying to encourage smaller guilds as the norm either. I don't want a big guild, nor be part of one, but it would be a pretty sad game if we could have one or two mega-guilds.

selpai
06-30-2015, 06:23 PM
What I don't get is why you want to put dues into the client. People can do that outside of the client through 'contracts' etc - it doesn't need to be enabled in-game. Depending on how things were set up, dues could turn into the worst kind of pyramid scheme (I saw similar behavior in WoW when a guild leader would just up and take all the banked gold, items, etc, and then disband or sell the guild.)

I'd rather discourage that sort of behavior, and I think allowing it outside of the client features would still achieve what you want.

I definitely don't agree about trying to encourage smaller guilds as the norm either. I don't want a big guild, nor be part of one, but it would be a pretty sad game if we could have one or two mega-guilds.

Works for me, freedom necessitates at least the potential for abuse. Just look at EVE Online. Of course, there need to be systems in place to discourage the worst abuses, and not every guild needs to be setup to engage in every mode of behavior or utilize all functions. That said, i did imagine that guild dues or fees could be used to enrich members of certain rank, which would be incentive to create, maintain, and manage the guild in the first place. Oh oh oh! Maybe they could even be traded! We could chair each others guilds, and trade stock in their profits, and and and... It's a dream anyways, though i certainly would like to see the potential for it laid out. Certainly wouldn't stop smaller or free guilds from functioning.

How to stop guild masters from cutting and running though. Pyramid schemes are bad news. I already suggested that cards granted to the guild bank be the property of the guild and not individually accessible to anyone, even the guild master. Those cards would be become available to the player that donated them to the guild bank upon dissolution of the guild, or that member leaving/being expelled. That might necessitate a barrier on exit to be meaningful. There could be a filter selection for each players card collection, that shows greyed out cards that are unusable because they currently belong to the guild.

Remember that these are just idle thoughts, and they deserve to be discussed on their own merits alone. Unless you're a developer, or someone employed at HexEnt, you simply don't have a direct say in how the game is developed. It's nice to dream though.

Thoom
06-30-2015, 06:48 PM
Personally, I would rather not lock too many great features behind a guild wall, so to speak. A guild might have more convenient access to some features due to its structure, but a player shouldn't have to join a guild just to get basic quality of life stuff. So when thinking of features, I'd prefer to think of a version everybody can use, and then think about how that could be made even better for guilds.

For example, loaning decks. Ideally I'd like the ability to loan a deck to another player with the ability to bring it back to my collection unilaterally. While the deck is loaned out, the cards would be greyed out in my collection and unable to be used. There are a bunch of details that need to be fleshed out (do they get the sleeves? what happens if they're in a tournament when I want it back? should loaned decks be allowed in tournaments at all, or just in proving grounds? What about PVE?), but they're unimportant for the purpose of this example.

Now we have guild loans. They work exactly the same, except instead of loaning the deck to a player, I loan it to the guild, and anybody with "deck library permission" (including me) can check it out and use it for as long as they'd like. When they log out, it automatically goes back into the guild pool for anybody to play with.

selpai
06-30-2015, 07:22 PM
Guild Loans. Instead of loaning the deck to a player, I loan it to the guild, and anybody with "deck library permission" can check it out and use it for as long as they'd like. When they log out, it automatically goes back into the guild pool for anybody to play with.

Ooooh. I rather like this idea. A convenient time/engagement-based ceiling for decks loaned out of guild storage. Easy way to prevent abuse and frustration, right there.