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AdamAoE2
07-01-2015, 09:01 PM
Hello Hexers!

I've been thinking about PvE lately and wondering how Hex plans to do classes. Being a huge supporter of talent trees and customization in general, I am hoping that Hex is able to create some truly engaging content for our champions. I want to be excited when I level up and unlock an awesome new ability, and I want to agonize over each grueling level up decision. When you picture leveling up in an MMOTCG - what would you like to see?

To that end, I've created a small mock talent tree structure to help foster discussion. And of course, I'm throwing in a small amount of prizes to make things exciting. ;)



Link to Mock Talent Tree (http://i.imgur.com/qSe5Kpz.jpg)


If you could only pick one talent per level, what would you pick and why?

I'll be giving away 3 draft sets and some other knickknacks - all you need to do to be eligible is simply:
- Reply to this thread and tell me what you would pick from the Mock Talent Tree, and why.
- Post how you would like Hex to handle leveling up your champion in PvE.

I'll randomly draw on 7/6/15 from everybody that replies by then and send the packs to everyone in-game.

Have fun! :)

Flairina
07-01-2015, 09:03 PM
I'll randomly draw from everybody that replies on 7/6/15 and send the packs to everyone in-game.


ON 7/6/15, or BY 7/6/15?

AdamAoE2
07-01-2015, 09:09 PM
I'll draw on 7/6/15 from anybody that has replied by then. Sorry for the confusion. :P

nicosharp
07-01-2015, 09:25 PM
If you could only pick one talent per level, what would you pick and why?
I feel like the entire right side of your Mock Talent tree speaks to me, with exception to Level 6.

Level 1 - Wall of Iron seems better to me than Leader of Armies - because I focus on defensive abilities in a TCG that is heavily based on RNG. Preventing damage when I do not have a great board-state is much better to me than dealing extra damage when I have a superior one. I'll be echoing this a lot as I go down your Mock Talent Tree.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer - Start with a free troop in play that is also listed as a Warrior - seems like a no-brainer - Combos with a lot of cards/troops and offers me a solid in-game wall. Creating cards without threshold requirements is nice for Master of Techniques, but still requires that I store up resources to play them.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude... Leaps and bounds above Tactician. Extra resource... and 24 life... OMG. That is broken. No contest.

Level 4 - Spell Reflection - This seems more abusive in PvE depending on AI programming. I may be persuaded to take Savage Blows if more AI opponents tend to use abilities that can not be redirected to champions or their troops. (a bit on the fence about this one - Master of Arms has a lot of application in any scenario)

Level 5 - Commanding Presence - While Master of Arms extra weapon seems nice, I much rather increase my decks combo pieces already using equipment to land in my hand more frequently - there is also great synergy with the lvl 10 talent.

Level 6 - The 1 and only talent I take from the left - Spoils of War - I find more value in gold rewards than I do in extended art. Especially when its across the board for dungeon rewards, and not specifically set to a completed dungeon and only common or uncommon cards. It's also just a chance, not a guarantee.

Level 7 - Retaliate - This is similar to the Level 1 talent - I rather get more benefits from being behind or losing board position, than having a superior one.

Level 8 - Call to Arms - Both of these talents are amazing, but I go with the one that benefits me for being behind or having bad RNG. Shared traits also helps with combos/deck-building

Level 9 - Undying - Again - Prioritize low-end being behind tactics - if it comes to that, regaining momentum helps in situations where everything else is going wrong. I also see this potentially comboing well with heroic outlaws.

Level 10 - Battalion - Seems a lot less conditional than Bloodbath and has a lot of synergy with Commanding Presence.


I'm not sure how Leveling will be handled for PvE, or how I want Hex to handle it. I've always liked the ding mechanic, and being prompted to look at the new stuff the level unlocks. Hopefully each level-up is "celebrated" and something is associated to it. Still unclear if leveling will be Champion specific or linked to the account. Either way I'm looking forward to a unique experience this offers to a TCG thematic, and the options that open up by talent trees.

Flairina
07-01-2015, 09:41 PM
Level 1: Leader of Armies. Wall of Iron is specifically for when YOU are dealt damage, and only takes a single point off. Not enough to invest in; seems better to run a swarm deck than bet on the othe rbeing all that helpful.
Level 2: I originally put Master of Techniques here. However, upon second consideration, the 2/4 defensive Loyal Retainer for two, which doesn't ever cost up and is RECURRING, does sure sound pretty awesome. And I DO tend to go for absolutes over chances... I suppose it depends on the kind of PVE cards opponents will be getting; whether there's a lot of passive powers on their troops or not. I think I've changed my mind to this one for now though, tentatively.
Level 3: Heroic Fortitude. Again, mulligan may be helpful, but even just the extra resource to start with is a HUGE advantage. The extra charge is cake.
Level 4: Savage Blow. Not only is this permanent, as opposed to the alternative, it's FREAKING CHEAP. With the amount of ways to gain charge we now have... wow, this is going to be VERY BROKEN if it stays as is (doubtful).
Level 5: Commanding Presence: Don't know enough about available equipment to say the alternative would be useful. But extras of the best cards that you ALWAYS want to see? Always good.
Level 6: Spoils of war. The value from the gold is EXTREMELY likely to outweigh the stardust reward from the other- not to mention, the other only procs 10% of the time? They made this prior to the stardust change, I take it.
Level 7: Retaliate. While the other seems useful for aggro decks, retaliate gives insurance, and I'm preferable to the option that gives better protection.
Level 8: Strategist. Oh, dear god. Are you kidding? Why would you NOT pick this? Who the hell- there's no way this is staying remotely similar in the final game. No. Way.
Level 9: Undying: Depending on the champs available I might change this, but Undying sounds like a way to make a comeback at what could have been endgame for you. I'll take that over other options right now, unless I plan to play ONLY one style of deck for forever.
Level 10: Battalion. How often are four troops going to simultaneously die in BATTLE? Cost down for shared troops is way better, especially with Commanding Presence.

As for how leveling will be handled... hmm. Probably not a good idea to only give "Experience" for completing entire dungeons, as that makes failed runs infinitely more frustrating. But honestly, I'm not certain how well giving experience for encounters and then just straight up leveling would work. They wanted to do something special here, so... well, I assume there's going to be a lot of depth to this system, but I've no idea how that's going to work. Maybe extra exp for accomplishing certain objectives in battle? Each encounter was going to be unique, so that sounds like something that should be easy to work around anyways.

The confusion between if leveling affects an account or a character- can an account have multiple characters? Are you locked in to things you chose if you screw up, permanently?- makes this even harder to articulate any real concrete thoughts on. I think we kind of need to know more about what actually is pinned down at this point to say anything about how it should be handled, as the leveling system will need to fit the rest of what they have planned. Since everything we know about it is still in flux... yeah, I guess I'm really unable to say.

Thoom
07-01-2015, 09:56 PM
Level 1 - Leader of Armies. That amounts to way more damage done than Wall of Iron is going to prevent in any game I'm not losing anyway.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer, no contest. A 2/4 for 2 that starts in play and recurs is crazy bonkers insane good.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude, again no contest. The main reason I'd mulligan is if I didn't have enough shards, and this not only fixes that, but ramps me.

Level 4 - Spell Reflection. This was a tougher choice, but I think dodging removal (and potentially making it into removal of my own if the power isn't nerfed to say "a different troop you control".

Level 5 - Commanding Presence. Consistency is more important than most equipment, though I could see myself regretting this one at some point if some really good weapons are printed. Also, I think Master of Arms should be renamed "Dual Wield". Or to be extra cheeky, Primal's Grip.

Level 6 - Spoils of War. 10% more gold is more flexible, and probably just flat out more value than what averages to be 200g/dungeon in the best case.

Level 7 - Retaliate seems better. It makes chump blockers really strong.

Level 8 - Super tough choice. Call to Arms could be interesting with the right troopless deck, but ultimately Strategist is solid, reliable value, so I think I'd go for Strategist.

Level 9 - Undying. I imagine a lot of PVE encounters where the enemy starts with significantly more health than me would make Intimidation pretty bad.

Level 10 - Bloodbath. Free masteries of time? Yes pls.

Edit: Missed the thing about how leveling should be handled. My preference would be quickly and painlessly. I'm not a big fan of leveling systems, because they tend to introduce grind and punish players for wanting variety. If it takes 50+ hours to level up a character to maximum, I'm much less likely to be inclined to try out a different race or class from my main. Guild Wars (1, not 2) did this really well, I think. The pre-max levels of the game were basically a tutorial, and in later campaigns you could hit the level cap in a matter of 3-5 hours on a fresh character and be ready to play the real game.

If leveling is going to take a while, then I'd like some benefit from gaining exp after the level cap (which is another cool thing Guild Wars did) so I don't feel like I'm wasting some value by playing a maxed character.

Audens
07-01-2015, 10:27 PM
Thanks for setting this up! You clearly put a lot of thought into these traits, and they're overall very well-balanced. There were many tough decisions here. Assuming it's one talent per level and you don't have to stick to just one side, I would go with:



Level 1 - Wall of Iron - Both of these are pretty situational, but Leader of Armies feels very much like a win-more ability, except in a certain subset of decks (e.g., Shin'hare swarm). Wall of Iron is not particularly powerful, but it can buy you some extra time to bounce back.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer - Starting with a 2/4, even a defensive one, in play is extremely strong against aggro decks. Being able to replay it if it's killed is icing on the cake.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude - Half the time when you're mulliganing you're doing it to prevent shard screw, so Tactician loses half its advantage right off the bat. Add to that the fact that Heroic Fortitude is ramp from Turn 1, and it's no contest.

Level 4 - Savage Blows - This one is complicated by the fact that the AI doesn't deal with double damage or with things like spell reflection very well. Assuming perfect play from the AI, I think I would probably go with Savage Blows. A lot of the negative spells in Sets 2 and 3 are conditional, which makes Spell Reflection easier to play around. And double damage for 3 charges is extremely strong.

Level 5 - Commanding Presence - I expect this answer might change over time, but based on the current equipment pool, having one more weapon slot doesn't strike me as all that strong. I frequently don't even need one weapon, let alone two. Having five of your key cards, on the other hand, can make your deck a lot more consistent, especially if it relies on combos.

Level 6 - Promote - Hard to say on this one. Since this doesn't have tactical implications, it would depend on which choice has the higher expected value, which turns on the amount of gold provided by dungeons compared to the market value of extended art cards. My impression is that extended art is going to be relatively difficult to unlock, so I guess I'd go with Promote, but in actuality my decision would probably be based on an Excel spreadsheet.

Level 7 - Retaliate - Overwhelming Assault feels very much like a win-more ability. If I'm dealing six or more damage in a single turn, odds are I'm doing pretty well. That won't always be true, but generally it will be. Coupled with the fact that I think Retaliate will do more damage in the average game (Overwhelming Assault is unlikely to be more than four damage, but it's relatively common for an opponent to use removal on troops with an aggregate attack of four or more), I would have to go with Retaliate.

Level 8 - Strategist - I'm torn on this one. Call to Arms gives you a free troop at the start of the game, which could be great or could be mostly irrelevant, depending on the RNG. You would have some control over what you get, due to the shared trait, but probably not enough to be able to give yourself a high chance of a useful troop. However, you would also potentially getting a free chump blocker every turn in the late game, which might be enough to help you stabilize. Giving your biggest threats Crush though is also incredibly strong and, ultimately, given the strength of having multiple swiftstrike defenders, I have to go with Strategist. Doubly so if the AI still doesn't understand swiftstrike.

Level 9 - Undying - One extra charge per turn when you're already ahead doesn't strike me as that strong. Undying is situational, but it kicks in in situations where you really need it. The life gain piece is pretty strong on its own (basically prevents you from being killed by less than four damage per turn, which applies to a lot of evasive damage sources), but adding in the card draw seals it for me. If Intimidation was a greater than or equal to thing I might be persuaded, but as it is, I would go with Undying.

Level 10 - Bloodbath - Even with five of each troop in my deck I would only expect to take advantage of this once or twice per game. And since I need to already have one of the card in play, it doesn't really act as ramp, unless I can cheat the first one into play. Bloodbath is pretty situational, but its effect is incredibly strong. You can do a full swing, forcing your opponent to block and trade, then use the extra turn to swing again against their now-depleted field or just to ready your troops to prevent a counter-attack. Or you can trade/chump against your opponent to meet Bloodbath's threshold and get a free turn. You could even combine the two to get three or more turns in a row. Even though Battalion is probably more consistent, the potential upside of Bloodbath wins it for me.




In terms of how leveling should be handled in PvE, I would prefer a system where you start at level 1 for each dungeon or raid, then level up as you progress. That removes any need to grind and lets you make very tactical decisions about what upgrades to pick at each stage of dungeon.

purehybrid
07-01-2015, 11:05 PM
Level 1 - Wall of Iron - the other one is not only "win more", but also easier to obtain from other cards.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer - free replayable 2/4 would single handedly make slower arena decks far more viable. Less rng reliant too.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude - Extra resource to put your slower deck ahead of the curve, makes control viable.

Level 4 - Toss up... Reflection would be amazing if it was quick speed, but I'm assuming it isn't... and the double damage is such a great finisher on an evasive troop, or combined with combat tricks. Would enable a lot of One Turn Kills.

Level 5 - Commanding Presence - Consistency for combo control perfect runs = gg.

Level 6 - Can't tell without knowing what EA's are worth. I'd imagine Promote will actually generate more income if you sell the resulting EA.

Level 7 - Retaliate - This one is just funny, and I'm sure it will cause havoc for the AI :D

Level 8 - Call to Arms - Free chumpers while I put together my combo? Yes pls.

Level 9 - Undying - As combo/control as I seem to be going... stabalising at mid hp is what I want... if they get through a little further than I'd like this will really help. I'd prefer it to be 6 or 7 hp threshold though.

Level 10 - Bloodbath - Trade some dudes = free turn? Done. If they ever introduce a quick speed board sweeper this will be godlike. The other one doesn't do much for the playstyle I've been talenting to, would be great for aggro though.

FlyingMeatchip
07-01-2015, 11:06 PM
Level 1 - Leader of Armies, my first TCG experiences were with Mono Green deck and getting as many troops out and just plain smashing face with em until victory.

Lvl 2 - Master of Techniques, While not relying solely on RNG based deck. Having a little RNG flavor can be fun and make for interesting matches.

Lvl 3 - Tactician, In my early FFA TCG days, a free Mulligan on all/no resource hands were considered appropriate. With all the broken/infinite combos everyone had it was almost required for a fair game. As set #'s increase I can see this as a way to level the playing field.

Lvl 4 - Savage Blows, this power goes hand in hand with Leader of Armies. Especially if those troops have Crush or Swiftstrike.

Lvl 5 - Commanding Presence, Having 5 of a single card in your deck gives your game and the combo you want to draw out a lot of consistency.

Lvl 6 - Promote, EA cards are where it's at. Myself and Fliperon stumbled on the EA feature in mid Alpha and the art work is amazing with some easter eggs of other cards in the same set. Stunning stuff

Lvl 7 - Overwhelming Assault, This is the finisher to the beat down deck no doubt. When you need that last little push to win you the game this trait will do the job nicely.

Lvl 8 - Strategist, Crush and Swiftstrike wins games. Especially when key words like Lethal are attached as well.

Lvl 9 - Intimidation, this trait promotes agro beatdown decks and early attack will only make decks that use this trait even stronger.

Lvl 10 - Battalion, just getting as many troops out with the least cost will overwhelm an opponent very quickly. Other than Extinction simple one troop removal just won't be enough for this trait.


I would like to see a basic progression to start out with, starting at lvl 1 in the beginning. I would like to see a quicker progression in levels when special events or certain scenarios in beating bosses are completed. For example like beating the Kraken level with a Sliver of the Immortal Spear hitting for 5000 damage.

Great topic and very interesting to think about.....Thanks!

Kaiba_Graysoul
07-01-2015, 11:35 PM
I'v decided on this being a Shin'hare deck and champ; the idea would be lots of troops in play some big mid game drops.

Level 1- Leader of Armies, this works super well with a legion of bunnies, with the right mix by turn 3 you could have 5- 2 2 or more sitting on the field

Level 2- Royal Retainer, Although not providing shin'hare it gives me a boost of troops off the back making the level 1 requirement a little easier to achieve.

Level 3- Heroic Fortitude, a free redraw could be important but that extra resource at the beginning mean I can go big faster doing so much damage that a turn 4 extinction wont save them, the extra health is just an added bonus.

Level 4- Spell Reflection, This was a tough one as a double damage rune commander could be sweet, but you need him on the field so being able to save an important troop with a bunnie sacrifice seems the best choice.

Level 5- Master of arms, no choice here so many times a crazy combo can be found if only you could equip 2 equipment in the same slot

Level 6- Promote, Just seems cool to have a card that put in some hard work get a reward for all that effort, makes becoming EA more memorable too.

Level 7- Overwhelming assault, This is all down to the fact that with the way shin'hare operate a sacrifice could be very costly to me hitting my own troops, bad plan, and Over whelming force used with a large troop body could just get you over the finish line

Level 8- Strategist, would help mitigate the weak defence of some bunnies + once they get buffed enough they become a game ending force. This was a very close call tho.

Level 9- Undying, no contest this could save you consistently giving you just enough to mount a come-back, I love the underdog.

Level 10- Bloodbath, another close call but with dispensable troops this could be super powerful, but could back fire badly if opponent used something like blinding light but waited for the second strike.

The Shin'hare will overrun!!!

There should be xp for win but I think certain abilities should be locked if you include cards that are not of that faction or tribe.

Edit: the xp should not go to champ but to the keep where you can spend it levelling any champion.

Mejis
07-01-2015, 11:37 PM
Great post and idea OP, thanks for the effort.

Unfortunately I don't have time to fill this out right now, but just reading your ideas makes me excited, and crave, for such things to be in HEX already!

EDIT: I will say that most of the right side appeals to me though. There's some insanely good stuff in there (e.g. starting with 1/1 resources, having 5 copies of a card in your deck).

HitoZ
07-02-2015, 12:50 AM
Level 1 - Leader of Armies. Great for the hot blooded, get in your face type of warrior.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer. Having a free troop in play is too good. Also makes Leader of Armies easier to proc.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude. Even if the penalty was -hp, the free resource more than makes up for it.

Level 4 - Savage Blows. While spell reflect is also nice it needs to take multiple things into account so you have to gamble which troop you want to protect. Warriors don't have time for that, warriors want a good bloody action which Savage Blows provides.

Level 5 - Master of Arms. I was always a fan of dual wielding so this was a no brainer for me. I'd really love something like this. Besides my personal preferences, having an extra equipment slot gives more posibilities when making decks.

Level 6 - Promote. It's quite a tough decision. I guess in the long run it would be better to have something to strive for than some extra gold. Especially if you farm dungeons with the same set of cards for 100th time.

Level 7 - Retaliate. While i expect my troops to be strong, they're also not tough so i need to have them give every ounce of their blood for my victory. Also goes well with the free troop from Loyal Retainer.

Level 8 - Strategist. Just too strong to pass up. Goes well with weak troops with rage at start and by the time they build up their attack they get crush which just obliterates every opponent.

Level 9 - Intimidation. There's no better way to win than to encourage your troops to hit the opponent and as a reward you even provide your troops with support (depending on champion power and the level 4 talent).

Level 10 - Battalion. While Blood Bath is very nice in the late stages of the game, or when you're fighting for board control, there is just nothing the opponent could do if you flood the board on turn 1. It also has great synergy with Heroic Fortitude. Coupled it with Loyal Retainer and Leader of Armies and you're an unstoppable force on turn 1.


Very fun, but the talents that i picked would make the game trivial in most cases? Depending on starting hand of course.

Leviling of my PVE champion. Quite simple the first stage anyway. I'm sure everyone has gotten the freeze bug and when you come back and reconnect to the game it says "blabla of guild"? That's not the point, the point is or rather are, the 4 circles below the champion. We could have access to extra charge powers, or we could pick from multiple talent skills like you provided and we'd be able to pick 4 of them, once we'd level the champion of course.

The equipment could at some point have a level requirement, nothing crazy high or hard to level. Unless the equipment would be way better than what we currently have.

Leveling of PVE cards when we use them, change their stats, cost, add a property(crush, flight etc.) or what they do (change their text)? Or rather since it's about champion leveling. Having access to different versions of a card with higher champion levels.

Having access to different dungeons/raids on leveling, this should be an obvious one.

Change the look of our champion, like every dungeon/raid gives a different kind of look for champions. It's also easier to do since it's only a picture.


@OP: Thanks for your topic, had fun going through the talents and making my picks. Thinking about what I want to see/get from champion leveling was also a fun thing to do.

Edit: fixed Royal > Loyal

Salverus
07-02-2015, 01:45 AM
1: wall of iron; because if you have 5+ troops on the board, you already have the upper hand, no need to make it stronger
2: loyal retainer: if opponent is a bit shard screwed, you can win the game by this single troop. Or if you are shard screwed it might save you to survive the first few turns.
3: Heroic fortitude, for the 1/1 resource alone i would pick it already, the 4 extra life is just bonus.
4: savage blows; this pick does not really matter, since i dont really see a situation where i would use either of these charge powers.
5: Commanding presence, increases odds to draw the proper card.
6: This is difficult to say, since we do not know how much gold a dungeon run will yield. a 10% chance to get 1k or 2k gold means if a dungeon yiels more than 2k gold as a reward, the 10% extra gold is nett better result, additionally you can chose yourself on what to spend the gold, so this looks like a no brainer.
7: Retaliate , good counter against extinction
8: Strategist, finally my brutal commanders will have permanent crush, for those times you dont draw crushing blow, also makes fights against war bot easier since you can now win with a single charge bot.
9: Undying; just in case of emergency, if you have more health than opponent, you are already winning and you dont need a bonus.
10: Battalian, this is insanen with a mono deck, all your troops will become free, all you need is draw power now.

Graydeath
07-02-2015, 02:34 AM
1 Leader of armies: i like more to hit than to get hit, so wall of iron is not for me

2 Royal Retainer: a free troop is Always good, one whith recursiono simple to strong to pass.

3 Heroic fortitude: not much a fan of the extra life but the extra resurce is verry sexy

4 savage blow: as for level 1, i like to hit the opposing champion hard, so what better then double damage?

5 this i don't know, i think that the chose depend on the deck i will play and how the weapon aviable will sinergize with the card i will play. If there will be good weapon aviable i'll go for master of arms

6 Spoils of war: the gold give me more freedom of chose and if i wont EA i Always can use the gold to unlocke it

7 Retalilate: i like it, Killing a troop could be verry painfull. but i have a doubt, what happen when you scarifice the troop?

8 Strategist: the right skill for the right troop, good.

9 Undying: free cards draw is Always good, in bad situation si even better. Self damage to draw?

10 Bloodbath: who don't like extra turns?


For the leveling question would like if the talents between you can chose are related to 3 things: your class, your race and your faction. It can be something like at every level you can chose between 3 talents, one given by your class one by your race and one by your faction. Or somethiong like at level 2 you have to chose a class talents, at level 3 a race talent, at level 4 a faction talent and so on... this way, for exemple, playing a dwarf warrior will be a wole differnet experience than playing a elf warrior

Kalemero
07-02-2015, 06:11 AM
Great topic and well-balanced talents for the champion.
I like playing different styles of decks to not get bored with just one type. As such I would likely want a well balanced hero with skills fitting most situations. As such his skills would be:

Level 1 - Wall of Iron.
As different decks doesn't always troop spam, being on the defensive is always a safe choice and always viable and playable

Level 2 - Loyal Retrainer.
Again, for my kind of playstyle and for different styles of decks I feel a defensive troop to ward against high aggro or the likes has a higher value than to kill off opposing troops. I also generally run with cards in PvE that either can crush through or not be blocked anyway.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude.
This is likely the most difficult choice. Although most times I mulligan my problem is too few shards to have a great playable hand. Thus a free mulligan is not required if I have that extra shard, as long as I have 1 shard in my hand, my hand should be somewhat playable. 4 extra life is always good to have too!

Level 4 - Spell Reflection.
Having double damage on a charge power is great for sure, but the utility of spell reflection feels a lot more valueable to me. I can secure my own troop's safety no matter if I'm on the offensive or defensive.

Level 5 - Master of Arms.
For versatility, which is my aim, a second weapon seems like a godsend. I can make many more fun combos with another effect for X troop, rather than have an extra of one troop or action.

Level 6 - Spoils of War.
While I do like the idea of extended art it's not my real goal of the game - I'd rather have more gold income so I can buy more cards or equipment and extend my collection rather than the art of my current one.

Level 7 - Retaliate.
Retaliate seems very powerful no matter what kind of deck you play. It's very versatile and don't have anything required to trigger other than a troop on the board, so the pick is clear.

Level 8 - Call to Arms.
While I like the versatility of crush and swiftstrike for all my troops I should have included win cons in my decks already. I feel more troops, which a chance of that "DAYMN!" by getting an insane legendary/rare troop that could turn the tide of battle or enhance your current hand greatly. Sounds like fun to me!

Level 9 - Intimidation.
I generally avoid getting down to 5 health of less unless I'm playing heroic outlaw. For the most part I try stay level'ed or a little ahead so intimidation seems like a winner to me since I can play more charge powers.

Level 10 - Battalion.
This is like ramp for all races - which is excellent no matter what stuff you play. Bloodbath is conditional. Ramp? YES PLEASE! :D

I'd think of level'ing being handled much like most MMORPGS - you get exp from what you're doing and eventually you will level up. Consecutive wins / Perfect clears providing exp bonuses while losses while giving less exp would still provide something so it's not a horrible grind to get some levels. However, the stronger talents are at higher levels so I'd expect the curve to rise and with the current talents selected throughout it should be easier to earn those extra bonuses.
I'd think that single player PvE would also provide less exp than multiplayer (raids, dungeons, etc) with the tougher the challenge, the more exp. Very typical and used system, but since it's used so much it also means it's something that definitely works!

Gattou
07-02-2015, 06:21 AM
1 Leader of armies: goes with level 2

2 Royal Retainer: a free troop and get you closer to 5 troops

3 Heroic fortitude: 1/1 can take you closer to the level 1 power

4 savage blow: i like it

5 Commanding presence: i'd like to use more than 4 cards in order to make more combos

6 Spoils of war: Goooooooold ! need to spin chests :)

7 Retalilate: because the other one is only +2dmg if you do 6min

8 Strategist: goes with the level 1 and level 2 skills

9 Intimidation: if you took too much damage to get you to 5, you are already in deep sh**, so +3hp and 1 card is not gonna save my ass ;)

10 Battalion: i'll need to put creatures for the level 1 and 8 skill

I expect Hex to put leveling like in MMOs :
- XP from quests/tasks (killing X targets, looting items, finding an NPC in a donjon, etc.)
- XP just from killing

AdamAoE2
07-02-2015, 07:21 AM
Great replies so far - it's interesting to see everyone's reasoning on their picks. Looks like most people are interested in an experience system like traditional MMOs. If they do decide to go this route, i hope they us a generous amount of character slots for various different characters to play around with. :)

Kalemero
07-02-2015, 07:26 AM
Or you could just level up your whole account in general and for every deck when you select the champion you can also set the talent tree at the same time. So the talent tree is only for the current deck, not for the champion by itself. It could be the 'easier' option instead of level'ing several champions and giving them different points. Would also prevent the need of a respec system

Fyren
07-02-2015, 07:41 AM
Let’s actually take this from the perspective of a Shin’hare warrior – let’s face it, that’s the race I’m going to be playing, optimized or no - and assume my choices are linked to Shin’hare strategy.

With that said:

Level 1: Leader of Armies
If I’m Shin’hare, I’m doing it wrong if I can’t get 5 troops out.

Level 2: Loyal Retainer
Either my mass buff numbers as Wild Shin’hare are going to help that, or I’m going to be able to infinisacrifice it. It’s like having a Minion of Yazukan at start!

Level 3: Heroic Fortitude
The resource will often obviate the need for the mulligan, especially if I’m a mono-color deck.

Level 4: Spell Reflection
Being able to protect Rune Ears and Bucktooth Commanders is a very good thing. Even in the Blood Variant one is going to want to be able to cover Hop’Hiro’s fluffy ass, and Monsuun isn’t always going to have his back.

Level 5: Master of Arms
Without considering the specific equipment involved, the combo potential of having another equipment slot could be hilarious.

Level 6: Spoils of War.
On average and even assuming best-case uncommons scenario, Promote generates 250g/dungeon. Assuming Frost Ring levels of payout, not only is Spoils worth more money per run, but Promote will stop providing its benefit when the entire common/uncommon portion of your deck is Extended.

Level 7: Retaliate(Wild)/Overwhelming Assault(Blood)
If I’m primarily Wild bunnies, then Retaliate represents security from Extinction by causing the enemy to basically explode when he plays it. If I’m Blood bunnies, Retaliate is a liability; sacrificing any minion bigger than a Battle Hopper is going to murder the shit out of my own face.

Level 8: Strategist
An army of swiftstriking bunnies. Yes please.

Level 9: Undying
Neither bunny type is particularly hard aggro. In Wild Bunnies you’re trying to build up a board and you might take a bit of damage doing that; in Blood Bunnies chargegain isn’t >as< important and the comeback from behind could be huge, though a Tormented Ritualist aggro deck could get terrifyingly dangerous if you get a free charge every turn.

Level 10: Bloodbath
I can envision many, many turns where a Shin’hare deck is going to proc this one. :3


EDIT: As for levelling... Oh man. Where to START.

The keep concept does kind of imply that we'd be creating lots of characters. Honestly, though, fixed races/classes on characters isn't a bad thing; I don't think Hex needs to reinvent the MMO side of the wheel, just hybridize it properly with the TCG mechanics. There may need to be limited card pools or the like to give races/classes specific feels; perhaps characters unlock PVP cards for PVE usage as they progress. Perhaps race/class troops need to match the character's race or class, but not both - as in, a a Shin'hare mage could use a Launchpad Specialist(Dwarf Mage) and a Bucktooth Commander(Shin'hare Cleric) but not an Assault Technician(Dwarf Cleric.) Nor any Ardent troops.

I think this is one case where limitations can create diversity, much like the Alucard weekend speedruns.

I dunno, though. Much as I think about games I admit I'm at a loss for the proper design of this one, which is why I'm so eager to see the final design come to fruition.

Diesbudt
07-02-2015, 07:42 AM
Level 1 - Wall of Iron: I believe it is better to have slight protection from major blasts of damage instead of +1 to troops (unless I have heavy swiftstrike or working on aggro decks), as things we have seen in arena this is possible even under good defenses. It allows me a bit more time to play the long game for major game winning combos.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer: Having a 2/4 defensive at the start of the game can be a major advantage vs aggro decks, giving me time to set-up board state not having to worry about a loss in a few turns. Also the return to hand and bale to replay gives it so much major protection from non void removal, meaning it can hold the defense long enough for my major combos to work

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude: 1 Resource at the start of the game is a major advantage allowing a slightly better deck set-up and allowing for quick win combos faster (looking at you Brutal commander by turn 1 w/ crimson clarity)

Level 4 - Savage Blows: Easily double damage is more useful with decks I enjoy such as damage triggers or crush or brutal commanders / Gore masters.

Level 5 - Commanding Pressence: Works great for combo decks, aggro decks and cards such as ragefire that use escalation. Most weapons don't do enough or hard to put 2 different weapon cards in a deck that makes an actual impact in deck building

Level 6 - Spoils of war: Consistent 10% gold to be used on anything, would be more valuable to me than a chance to unlock a cheaper EA

Level 7 - Retaliate: Is there really another option? If I am already doing 6 damage in a turn, I do not need just a measly 2 more as I probably already have enough control to finish my opponent off. However giving it protection from removal else bad things happen? YES PLEASE

Level 8 - Strategist: 1) The name, that is what I strive to be, a great strategist. 2) Let us be real here... It is the only good option for level 8, the other option would be a better lower level option. Very few 2- cost troops are useful, especially limited to the same race, Humans and Orcs maybe...

Level 9 - Intimidation: In PvE I plan to always stay ahead of my opponent and rarely fall into a under 5 hp situation without knowing it is already over in situations like Xarlox.

Level 10 - Battalion: Why? Because I had to choose one and neither tickles my fancy enough to care which one I would choose over another. Rarely (in PvE) will I ever allow my opponent to have a position for 4 troops his & mine to die in a single turn without me absolutely meaning to for other reasons where the extra turn wont be that beneficial. Also unless I am playing aggro or a deck that likes multiples of the same troop in play at once, I don't really card if it costs 1 less resource as I only have 5 in the deck, and doesnt help unique troops very much.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For leveling up, I would like to see XP be generated by match statistics, all awarded at the end of the dungeon

Say:

[{X * (A.Hp Diff)) - (Y/2 * (A.Hp Diff))] * A = Z

X = Number of games won
A.Hp Diff = The HP differential of the winner and loser average of all wins and loses (winner - loser) maxxing out at 20. (No need to gimmick decks to get infinite HP and deal million damage for super xp)
Y = Number of games loss
A = Modifer of Dungeon Difficulty (0.80-1.20)

This way Xp is slightly more based on performance and difficulty level. And unless you lose twice as much as you win, you still get positive xp. Some kind of idea around this range. (Including Quest static Xp based on level and difficulty; and maybe special encounter XP)

EDIT: Added more parantheses just incase some people out there fail at:

P
E
DM (Left to Right)
AS (Left to Right)

Bararuku
07-02-2015, 08:27 AM
lvl. 1- Leader of Armies
This ability is really powerful in a power vamp deck because first strike will be a big thing in it and when playing with goremaster its one less card you will have to play to get him over that 1 power he has to kick it off faster or in a shin'hare deck the extra attack makes battle hoppers that much bigger.
lvl. 2- Loyal Retainer
This one was more because in decks that take advantage of troops dying, this card really boosts it because you can play it right after sacking it. its also a wonderful 2/4 for 2 which makes it pretty chunky.
lvl. 3- Heroic Fortitude
The life isn't really the big one for this but the 1/1 resource that comes along with it. Having a resource at the beginning of the game is extremely strong because you can take hands that have less shards in them and still be fine as well as speeding up the game for you.
lvl. 4- Spell Reflection
As always control is always great and this makes it that much more flexible. You are aloud to tap out and use charge power to safely do more things while keeping your important pieces on board safe. Just another great way to bounce spells to targets that don't matter as much as you kings and queens or to slay what your opponent has on the field.
lvl. 5- Commanding Presence
I picked this because having five of one important card is awesome when it really needs to show up more in your games, not only will it come up faster but it will just make it easier to plan around an extra copy of one card in deck building.
lvl. 6- Promote
This one was a little sketchy because I was unsure i extended art has more value but I figured if it hit a card that was already valuable it would just up the price and you could farther benefit from it.
lvl. 7- Retaliate
Imagine a world of revenges. Now when they die they throw swords at your chest. Now theres 20 of them that are all 2/2. Shin'hare for the win.
lvl. 8- Call to Arms
this one was just a great way to get troops early in game with a two cost.
lvl. 9- Intimidation
This was more for aggro because of the warrior class and it just benefits more from that kind of play.
lvl. 10- Battalion
This one was really good because you plus even if you don't have that many troops. Playing big troops for low cost is always awesome.

For me I'd like to see more class than the standard. Like warrior is a standard mmo class, but id like to see ninja, samurai, bard, and stuff that is also considered a class. Id also like to play multiple classes and not have to be tied down to one class. for one deck i might want to play a guardian thats meant to tank, for another id like to play an assassin.

Diesbudt
07-02-2015, 08:32 AM
For me I'd like to see more class than the standard. Like warrior is a standard mmo class, but id like to see ninja, samurai, bard, and stuff that is also considered a class. Id also like to play multiple classes and not have to be tied down to one class. for one deck i might want to play a guardian thats meant to tank, for another id like to play an assassin.

Personallty I would like to see no class name.

You get a class name based on the talents you choose.

Like if X+Y combo - Spellblade
If all X - Warrior
If all Y - Mage

(etc. for multiple combos)

And I would like it if we cannot reset talents once chosen, so I can be forced to play multiple characters giving me even more reason to dedicate my soul to Cory... I mean to play more Hex!

LeMazing
07-02-2015, 08:34 AM
My choices are based on what would work best for my dino deck.

1 - Leader of Armies - Not too difficult to have 5 troops out at once with Pack Raptors and Savage Lord.
2 - Master of Techniques - Mmm, combat tricks.
3 - Heroic Fortitude - 2 Pack Raptors turn 1 is lovely.
4 - Savage Blows - Buffs.
5 - Master of Arms - A lot of good dino equipment. Tough choice though, and depending on deck changes this could change.
6 - Spoils of War - Most of the deck is rare/legendary.
7 - Overwhelming Assault - Tough choice, could change.
8 - Strategist - Unnecessary for the Raptors, but good for the rest.
9 - Undying - Don't need to win more, need some comeback assistance.
10 - Bloodbath - Battalion is really tempting, but Pack Raptors are already cheap enough. Would combo well with card draw though.


I'm hoping Hex sticks to something similar to its original plan of hero leveling being like traditional MMOs rather than the MIGHT system. I'm cool with some deviance from the original plan, but I really like persistent progress. Let mercenaries follow a MIGHT-esque system (which seems pretty in-flavor for their concept).

desk
07-02-2015, 08:56 AM
If you could only pick one talent per level, what would you pick and why?

Level 1 - Wall of Iron - the other one is seems to hard to achieve for most decks

Level 2 - Master of Techniques, free removal or combat tricks seems awesome for any deck

Level 3- Heroic Fortitude, this just seems so much better then the other choice, more health and ramp every game is insane.

Level 4 - Savage Blows, seems like it would have more uses long term then the reflection. and could help you end games faster. Currently almost all of the pve in arena is just a race to win before the ai deck gets to its crazy powerful but slow win con.

Level 5- Master of arms, this one is a real toss up for me but I think the extra equipment could be more powerful since the game wasn't balanced around it

Level 6- Promote, only if the extended arts are worth anything to sell

Level 7 - Retaliate -punish my opponent for using removal that seems really good to me

Level 8 - Call to Arms - love the value of free troops

Level 9- Undying, card advantage is king, and you could build a deck that does damage to you to take advantage of this.

level 10 - Battalion, seems like it will have more uses and be faster.

I am undecided on how it should work, I like to mess around with a lot of decks so don't want a system that is very binding and makes me grind when i change deck types and want be a diff class. I like how they showed it last time they talked about it where you level while in a dungeon so its not something you need to grind to switch decks.

jteldar
07-02-2015, 01:07 PM
Didnt make this list with a deck in mind... just the style of play I have.
level 1 - wall of iron: I like to play both aggro and control but it seems the "leader of armies" skill is too reliant on having a massive board presence which leaves little room for removal and combo cards. hence I choose Wall of iron
level 2 - Master of techniques: I would pick the sentinel against extreme aggro - but IF it is not telegrafed to the opponent what card I got from this skill to keep him guessing every time I get a card from it.
level 3 - heroic fortitued: lived learned to live with muliganing to 6 or 5 and having a bad game once in a while - Id rather have the extra resource... hell, with the extra resource I might not even have to muligan that much any more :P
level 4 - spell reflection: Better to protect a guy than gain double dmg. when it's not a quick action imo.
level 5 - commanding presence: Im not quite sure what the deck would look like but there are ALOT of cards I would like to see show up in greater numbers in my hand.
level 6 - spoils of war: to quote goldmember: "I love goooooooooooooold, the taste of it, the smell of it, the texture!"
level 7 - retaliate: even more removal? dont mind if I do. also it turns all spells that target my dudes into a much bigger deal for my opponent to consider.
level 8 - strategist: having alot of small swiftstrikers for defence and alot of big dudes for the beats? sounds better than getting a battlehopper at the end of turn.
level 9 - Intimidation: muuch more reliable than undying.
level 10 - bloodbath: seems like a good way to protect against boardwhipes.

exp. system: I cannot really imagine what the system should be like. A talent tree seems like the obvious way with some pretty standard "farm dungeons and arena to gain exp."-thing, like we've seen from other mmos. I dont really know what the alternative could be tho..
I did think of something else that might make sense when we are talking about Exp. Guild Experience or Guild achivements. Like; the guild defeated some dungeon or something for the first time? all players gets a boost to their gold income from dungeons. I dunno... that might be cool :)

IGN: Jteldar

Jormungandr
07-02-2015, 02:07 PM
Level 1 : Leader of Armies -- Great to ramp up a swarm strategy.
Level 2 : Loyal Retainer -- having a 2/4 blocker around to shore up the early game makes things so much better, especially if it returns to your hand when it dies. Great sacrifice fodder, and good for picking up inspire effects. (This plus mirror knight plus sac outlet is probably enough of a reason not to have this power)
Level 3 : Heroic Fortitude -- An extra 1/1 resources allows for an explosive start every game, which is very powerful. It also mitigates the need for mulligans on its own, since you (kind of) need one less shard in your opening hand to keep.
Level 4 : Savage Blows -- Double damage is pretty powerful, and always helpful if you're looking to deal any sort of troop based damage. Spell Reflection is a neat effect, but less universally useful. (Although it's got a much higher ceiling against the right decks)
Level 5 : Commanding Presence -- This would give the ability to build a MUCH more consistent deck. I feel like it would be busted, but I'd have to actually test it a bit. Definitely the one I'd go with, though, as being able to increase your chances to draw a key card in any given game is extremely useful.
Level 6 : Spoils of War -- 10% extra gold will give you more gold to buy stardust with. Also that gold can be used for other things instead. Especially since the Promote ability only affects common/uncommon troops, which are relatively cheap, gold-wise to buy the stardust.
Level 7 : Overwhelming Assault -- This one was actually pretty close for me. I think what put it over the top is that I enjoy decks with sacrifice effects, and I would take damage in that case. I do like the idea of punishing removal, though.
Level 8 : Strategist -- Swiftstrike on smaller troops is amazing for blocking. The free 2/4 I get at the beginning of the game now has swiftstrike... Also, Crush on large attack troops is really useful as well, especially if it kicks in when you use combat tricks.
Level 9 : Intimidation -- This one was pretty close as well. I think the main thing is that you have to hit between 1-5 life exactly for the other option to do anything at all. Granted, drawing a card and gaining life is pretty nice in that situation, but it's not going to come up that often. On the other hand, an extra charge or two is almost always useful to help get you into a position where you won't drop below 5 health.
Level 10 : Batallion -- Cost reduction is a very powerful effect, and any sort of aggro deck could be bonkers with this, especially with having 5 each of low cost troops in the deck. (drop 5 savage raiders for a total of 1 cost on turn 1, for example, in a perfect hand.)

Neat thought experiment, and it was fun to go through and evaluate these.

As far as how I'd like to level up a champion, I think just XP for dungeons and bosses where I use that champion makes the most sense to me. I could see quests and such as well, but the most straightforward way would be getting a bit of a level every time I use the champion in battle.

brater
07-02-2015, 04:46 PM
Level 1: Leader of Armies - It mainly just has more use than the alternative. I like the idea of taking the offensive more than the defense, so the proactive option would usually be better.
Level 2: Loyal Retainer - I can go full aggro while not having to worry about defense for the first few turns. It's not quite pro-active, but a chance to tank things for the first few turns is just too good to not pass up.
Level 3: Heroic Fortitude - This would benefit me in every game, not just the ones that I need to mulligan in. An additional 1/1 resource would just be an overwhelming advantage. I haven't yet lost a fight in the arena when that was the prize given to me.
Level 4: Spell Reflection - While not useful in every case, the idea of unleashing an enemy's spell on its own troops is just too much fun to not pass up. I will admit that Savage Blows is more useful, especially if you manage to stack it even just once on a troop.
Level 5: Commanding Presence - This one is just too good not to pass up. It would completely change the game.
Level 6: Spoils of War - Considering dungeons are the main PvE content that I'm aware of, this would just add up into a huge sum over time. Not to mention that gold can help fund EA's.
Level 7: Retaliate - This would double the effect of defending troops against really strong attackers. This would also count if I used more than one troops to block. Also, since I picked Loyal Retainer, that would just cycle back into my hand for more defense the next turn. This breaks the game, I think.
Level 8: Strategist - This is great for low attack troops that have special abilities that involve exhaustion, such as dwarfs/artifacts and other combos. Also, the AI can't really block Crush that well, so Crush is always good.
Level 9: Intimidation - As long as I am proactive and play aggro, then I can widen the lead with my charge power. This would have been even better if I picked Savage Blows, which would let me widen the gap even further.
Level 10: Bloodbath - Again, this works well with Aggro. Although, I suppose I would run out of card draw quickly.

For leveling up, I would have them give out xp points for successful encounter wins, along with a bonus for completing the dungeon. This way people have a chance to progress even if they suck, while still having to work for it.

Tinfoil
07-02-2015, 05:39 PM
Level 1 – Leader of Armies. Small synergy with my next pick and warrior wants to have many troops.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer. Start with a free recursive troop! Seems to have many combos in a troop focused deck.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude. Just so good under any conditions.

Level 4 – Savage Blows. Let’s get some aggression going (or buffing my defensive troop). Allow me to play more troops and fewer buffs.

Level 5 - Commanding Presence. Opens possibilities for some nice strong synergies.

Level 6 – Spoils of War. The difference doesn’t seem that big, but gold is more flexible.

Level 7 – Retaliate. Remove my troops and suffer the consequences. Combos with Savage Blows.

Level 8 – Strategist. Again, this lets me focus on just playing troops and not worrying about keywords. The other one is also nice, but I don’t think it will save me if I am much behind.

Level 9 – Undying. Mostly because I don’t know how much life we can expect opponents to have.

Level 10 – Bloodbath. Very warrior thematic and goes well with a troop-heavy deck – as either finisher or recovery from wipe.

I don’t know how the level system should be, but these are nice ideas. Abilities that scale with level could definitely be a thing. Passive or active abilities that triggers at certain times would also be cool; “gain a temporary resource on turn 3”, “cast Mass Polymorf: Dingler on turn 10” etc. They could also create specific cards that scales with level or interacts with hero-classes. Ultimately, I think it is a pretty hard design challenge as Hex is a card game and champion powers should support this, not make the cards into stand-ins for crazy powers.

Assassine
07-03-2015, 01:54 AM
Personally, i would like to have two kinds of progression: One for your entire account, and one for a single character you play. Classic experience points are my style here, but im open for other systems as well.

Talent Choices:

Level 1: Leader of Armies - The best defense is a good offense, and i love swarm / weenie decks :D

Level 2: Loyal Retainer - Great ability that gives amazing protection from aggro

Level 3: Heroic Fortitude - The extra resource is far too valuable not to pick

Level 4: Spell Reflection - This could potentially nullify entire fight mechanics in PvE

Level 5: Master of Arms - Im sure there are some devastating combos with 2 weapons

Level 6: Spoils of War - Going by arena rates, this gains you more gold than the EA perk would

Level 7: Retaliate - Great ability that counters swiftstrike, and even more amazing comboed with Loyal Retainer

Level 8: Call to Arms - This was a hard choice, but getting a free 2-cost troop turn 1 as well as potentially after a boardwipe is very strong.

Level 9: Undying - Another hard choice. I think Intimidation is stronger here, but i chose Undying because in my playstyle im often on lower life than my opponent for the first 5+ turns

Level 10: Bloodbath: Free turn after an extinction? Yes please.

Strela
07-03-2015, 02:04 AM
Leader of Armies: while both of lvl 1 talents offer only fringe benefits (to be expected of a lvl 1 talent), the damage reduction talent just doesn't seem worth it. In addition, Leader of Armies can become a strong bonus in a deck built around tokens.

Loyal Retainer: both talent choices seem great, but personally I'd prefer the consistency of an additional troop. Also, makes it that much easier to activate Leader of Armies.

Heroic Fortitude: I'd take it over the other one if it was only +1/1, built in ramp? Sign me up. Free mulligan is neat and all, but from the my experience in Frost Ring so far is that I rarely mulligan. With this talent, unless you have crucial 1 drops in your deck, you can drop them altogether in favour of more 2s.

Spell Reflection: Amazing for saving your expensive/important troops, and you get to kill off an enemy troop to boot. Savage Blows might come in handy in raids, if it turns out it's beneficial to have different players play different tipes of decks (say, damage dealer, heal/control).

Commanding Presence: Fill your deck with the strongest/most important troops or tricks, dispense with the filler. Master of Arms might become better if amazing weapons get introduced one day (which I'm sure they will, over time).

Spoils of War: way less interesting or flashy than Promote, but I figure I'm going to be playing PvE with a few decks, so Promote would cease to do anything after a while (unless I change cards in PvE decks regularly). +10% gold is boring, but consistent. Although, depending on how well the EAs will sell, one could always swap non-EA cards in the deck, while selling the EAs.

Retaliate: Anti-swiftstrike, and more. Combined with Spell Reflection, it can greatly reduce the consequences of enemies' removal. Also, I find Overwhelming Assault to be...underwhelming. Like it's supposed to be at lvl 1.

Strategist: Free keywords, do want. Call to Arms would rarely be activated, although I suppose it could work well with a higher curve control deck, giving you access to blockers for the first few turns.

Intimidation: Again, I feel like Undying would rarely be activated (could save your skin once in a blue moon). Intimidation, on the other hand, works really nice with Spell Reflection for example.

Battalion: Chosen purely because I think Bloodbath is too situational. Cost reduction, even situational, can never go bad, and works well with Commanding Presence. Makes it possible to play 2 2 drops on turn 3, 2 3 drops on turn 4 etc.

On champion leveling, now there's a topic to think about. For me, the biggest wish is they don't make it too simplistic, I'd want the RPG elements heavily integrated in the whole deal. Having many talents would unlock tons of possibilities for different synergies, further expanding deck tinkering, especially in a raid environment Also, I wouldn't want max level being relatively quickly achievable, otherwise I'd feel the importance of levels would be greatly reduced (which would definitely be a plus for some people, but not for me).

I'd make exprience tied with the class you earned it on. Classes would have some talents supporting a certain archetype, and some that are more general (example: Leader of Armies heavily benefits token or swarmy decks, and Spell Reflection is a more general talent which would be useful in just about any deck).

An idea: as you level a class, you acquire multiple charge powers. At a certain (higher) level, the mechanics of using charge powers change so that each charge power gets it's own, separate charge pool. Gaining a charge increases the number of charges in each pool, but using a specific charge power would only deplete the charge pool tied with that power. At an even later level, you could unlock the possibility to use charge powers more than once per turn, or use them during an opponent's turn.
It's overpowered in the current environment, but I feel like having a broad range of power due to class leveling would feel right at home in PvE, leading to a natural progression from easier to harder content, like in RPGs.


IGN: Strela

wolzarg
07-03-2015, 04:25 AM
Leader of Armies . The offensive potential while hard to reach seems much more game changing than a damage reduction that only works if you are already taking significant damage and then doesn't really reduce it by much.

Loyal Retainer - good solid troop that makes it easier to enable Leader of Armies

Heroic Fortitude - if built around correctly makes for a faster and stronger deck than the alternative.

Spell Reflection - If your troops are dead them dealing double damage isn't relevant and i assume most warrior specific cards won't fly.

Master of Arms - Weapons are generally one of the more impressive slots and also consider that you now get 8 cards equipped with weapons as opposed to 5.

Spoils of War - This one is just a baseline increase whereas the other one caps out when ever common and uncommon is EA despite already being quite restrictive compared to a flat increase in gold that you can do anything with.

Retaliate - Making every creature removed by spells and effects do damage equal to its power is incredibly good against anything removal heavy and will let you completely flood the board with no fear of extinction as well as making Loyal retainer a infinite burn for 2 if i can get a sac outlet.

Strategist - considering the fact that i picked Loyal retainer previously call to arms isn't very good.

Intimidation - While undying seems incredibly strong considering i have Loyal Retainer, Retaliate, Heroic fortitude it seems unlikely i won't be getting a lot of charges out of this so it has to be my choice.

Blood Bath - This one just seems far superior as you are not very likely to have duplicas, it might have been more interesting if i picked to have 5 of a card and had a strong 1 drop but i didn't. This also opens up for more shenanigans with a sac outlet as i can sac stuff and gain a extra turn.



Fun contest and definitely some interesting and synergistic choices.

Cainhu
07-03-2015, 06:23 AM
Hi,

My choices would be :

Leader of Armies - It could be used for various troop based decks, and especially nice with token generators. Wall of Iron bonus seems too insignificant, and don't really help wth your board position.

Loyal Retainer - With that ability, a free defender is impossible to pass. The level 8. Call to Arms ability is the only thing which would make me switch to Master of Techniques with some decks. And the combo potential of a troop who almost always stays available is insane...

Heroic Fortitude - The 1/1 resources is a very good buff, even without the +4 life. Honestly, I mostly mulligan if I have too few shards, so not even a contest here. Maybe for some crazy combo dek, I would consider the mulligan option.

Spell Reflection - Defending a key troop seems to be more usefull, than buffing a troop who maybe get instantly Murdered. Especiall that it seems I can target opposing troops with Reflection.

Master of Arms - I thik the lvl 5 options are balanced, but I really like to play around with equipments.

Promote - Spoils of War seem to be better, as you may spend the gold any way you want, and it's much more reliable. On the other hand, Promote seems much more fun.

Retailate - It gives some extra value for your troops, and it's a nice defense agains Swiftstrike and similar abilities. Also, against mass removal it's maybe even too powerful.

Strategist - Hard choice. Offering Swiftstrike or Crush to all of your troops is insanely powerfull, AND is something you can plan with. Call to Arms is strong if you get the right troop, but the random factor makes it the weaker option in my eyes.

Undying - I feel that Intimidation is a win more ability, if you are already in a better shape than your opponent. Undying most likely will be rarely activated, but possibly can save you in those cases.

Bloodbath - This ability could win you games, while Batallion only helps you if you draw multiples from the same troop, and even then, it's mostly significant only in the early turns.

For leveling I have a few things I want :

-it should offer a lot of diferent options, so we could make different builds for our own playstyle
- reaching max level shouldn't be easy or fast, BUT even unsuccessfull runs should prvide some experience
- the abilities should be interesting and thematic, both for your and class. Also, the abilities should take some work to make the most out of them, so no straight easy to trigger "super-powers"

Also, it would be nice to have some abilities which are useful outside the actual games, like some scouting te dungeon ablility for rouges, or a necrotic ability to benefit from previously defeated enemies etc.

Xavon
07-03-2015, 08:34 AM
Level 1 - Leader of Armies - Most of my deck revolve around high numbers of troops, and either a strong defense or life gain.
Level 2 - Loyal Retainer - See above. This troop easily buys you to turn 3.
Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude - I try to avoid mulligans. Heck, even if this was just starting with one resource I would pick it over free mulligan.
Level 4 - Savage Blows - Neither particularly spark my game, but double damage is pretty sweet, while the other one would depend more on your opponent.
Level 5 - Commanding Presense - No brainer here, this makes it easier to get your killer troops.
Level 6 - Spoils of War - Again, neither interests me, but at least this one always fires off.
Level 7 - Retaliate - Another weak level. But Retaliate shuts down Extinction.
Level 8 -Strategist - This was a tough one, but this one ties in really well with Leader of Armies, Loyal Retainer, and Savage Blows
Level 9 - Intimidation - Get the lead, and it helps you keep the lead.
Level 10 - Battalion - Heck, I've already got five of each troop. Might as well make them cheaper to play.

Cephied
07-03-2015, 12:56 PM
Level 1 - Leader of Armies. I love my orc agro. This also applies to robots/dwarves and shinhare, and set 3 spiders!
Level 2 - Master of Techniques. While random, clearing the way for an agro deck is immensely valuable.
Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude. That 1/1 resource start is a huge boon.
Level 4 - Savage Blows. Pushing through more damage is better.
Level 5 - Commanding Presense. 5 copies of your best cards is better than an extra equipment.
Level 6 - Spoils of War. Less time grinding for gold.
Level 7 - Retaliate. Seems more useful than a win more other option.
Level 8 - Strategist. Crush for the win!
Level 9 - Intimidation. More reliable than going down to low life.
Level 10 - Battalion. Great for tribal agro options.

Leveling based on each individual champion you own would be what I would like to see. This would also apply to different copies of the same champion. You could have 10 different slamvolt builds!

Vrukiel
07-03-2015, 09:27 PM
Level 1 - I think I'd probably go with Wall of Iron here. Leader of Armies is powerful, but overall kind of conditional. Wall of Iron is pretty likely to proc at some point, even if the benefit is marginal.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer is far and away the clear pick here. It completely shuts down any aggro, and the troop itself is extremely powerful. 2 for a 2/4 undying blocker/chump blocker? Yes please.

Level 3 - I think I'd 100% have to go with Heroic Fortitude in all situations. The tempo from the 1/1 is so strong.

Level 4 - I think here I'd have to go with Spell Reflection. The pure card advantage that it could bring is absurd. Imagine using your opponent's murder on their own troop!

Level 5 - Both of these are kind of a deck synergy improvement. It really depends on what kind of deck I would be trying to run. It is neat, though, because it opens up some cool possibilities. Briar Legion with the 5-of would be amazing.

Level 6 - I think I'd probably personally go for the 10% gold since I don't particularly care about extended art that much. I'd have to really like the deck to use Promote, and even then would just use it until all of that deck's uncommons/commons are EA.

Level 7 - I'd have to go with Retaliate here. It's a reliable, flat bonus. It allows you to block, say, a 2/2 with a 1/1 and kill it outright, or a 4/4 with a 2/2. I think overwhelming assault could be good, but at the end of the day it's only 2 damage.

Level 8 - Strategist seems to be the clear call here. It straight up buffs 100% of your troops, rather than give you a random low drop. Sure, the low drop could save your life, but ideally you won't have 0 troops on the field unless you get extinctioned.

Level 9 - This kind of comes down to what kind of a deck you're running. An aggro, charge-centric deck could benefit greatly from Intimidation, but I think I would typically go for Undying just for utility and usability.

Level 10 - Once again, this tier really depends on the kind of deck you're running. They're both pretty strong, but I think Battalion is the go-to pick unless you're running some sort of sacrifice deck that can proc Bloodbath.

As far as how they do leveling, I think that after making a hero and choosing a class, that hero should be locked into that class, but have the ability to re-specialize at any point (i.e. change chosen levelup reward). This allows for more versatility, and quite honestly, I think it would feel quite tedious to level countless numbers of each class just to get each combination of talents that might be desired for a given encounter. I do, however, think that the player should need to level each hero individually. It gives replayability to the content and also gives each hero their own "identity" and progression. I think that heroes would feel sort of throwaway if each were to just jump to whatever current level the account has progressed through on any given hero.

IGN: Etruia

Prominis
07-04-2015, 02:16 PM
Hmm. This is interesting, although personally I wouldn't go for a warrior.
Level 1 - To be honest, I'd shoot for Wall of Iron, because it's just more useful in more scenarios. Although i'd love Leader of Armies for Shinhare and other swarm decks, Wall of Iron is in general, easier to utilize across all of my decks.
Level 2 - Here I might diverge from the right side and shoot for the left, for Master of Techniques. To be honest, I think Loyal Retainer is better, but if I keep level 8's call to arms in mind, Loyal Retainer would deny me a free turn one 2 cost troop since it's always playable.
Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude for sure. The only reason why I'd ever go for the Tactician would be if I was exclusively playing combo decks on the warrior character, which I very much doubt I would be.
Level 4 - Spell Reflection, because no one likes the murder or crackling bolt to the troop.
Level 5 - Commanding Presence, because having ones key cards is, in my opinion, more important than having another effect. For example, in a straightforward arena grinding sly huntress deck, having an extra sly huntress makes it all the more likely to get the combo going properly.
Level 6 - Promote, because those fancy arts are fancy. Although Spoils of War is arguably better in many respects, as I stated at the beginning of this post, I wouldn't want to main a warrior. Therefore, I probably wouldn't grind gold with the warrior, thus meaning it'd probably be more useful to just shoot for the chance of extended arts than to just get the gold bonus on a character I wouldn't really use.
Level 7 - Retaliate, simply because it's far more useful than dealing two extra damage when you do six or more. It's rather helpful against burn and other annoying killspells.
Level 8 - Call to Arms, for that wonderful two cost on every turn where I have nothing. As tempting as it was to take Strategist and Loyal Retainer, I think a random chance for a spell and random 2 cost would be more useful late game than a 2/4 with swiftstrike.
Level 9 - Undying, because it's just much more convenient. I can't count the number of times I just needed that one card in order to beat my opponent, or just a tad more health in order to survive the turn. Meanwhile, unless I loved to play charge decks (which I'm not very fond of, because crackling vortex is so expensive), I just don't think it's worth the extra charge.
Level 10 - Oh, this one's hard. Bloodbath has a much stronger effect, but the trigger is much harder to manage than Battalion. In this case, I'd go for the more generally useful one: Battalion. Bloodbath, as good as the extra turn is, just wouldn't activate enough, or so I assume. I would like clarification however: does bloodbath trigger when four troops are killed from combat, or in the combat phase? I'm also guessing sacrifice doesn't count towards the bloodbath, but that's another thing to consider.

As for leveling, I'm currently of the belief that it'll follow a traditional MMO system, with experience and levels unlocking certain content, areas, encounters, raids, and of course the talents. To be honest, I don't know how I would want Crypto to handle the leveling system, but I think that the typical system would work. There is room for innovation (as with everything), but like I mentioned just above, I wouldn't really know where.
So basically I'm expecting a traditional MMO's grindy exponential exp curve with unlocks on every level or so, with exp coming from playing the game.

edit: Oh and my forum name is the same as my keep name (Prominis).

Alamand
07-04-2015, 03:14 PM
I'm assuming future PvE will be similar to arena where in the end it'll all be about speedrunning the dungeons as fast as possible, so most of my choices reflect that line of thinking.

Level 1 - Leader of Armies: this one just seems like a no brainer, more attack lets you win faster, and the other ability only activates if the AI is attacking you with something with 4+ attack, which is fairly rare from what I've seen so far in arena.

Level 2 - Master of Techniques: While random, it lets you get damage through faster. A 2/4 defensive, while very nice, would only be useful if things have gone terribly wrong.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude: If arena has taught me anything, it's that 1 extra resource let's you win dramatically faster and usually snowballs the game out of the AI's control.

Level 4 - Savage Blows: The only spells I'm really concerned about the AI playing are board wipes, and the other talent does nothing vs them, not to mention double damage will let you win much faster and has some really nice combo potential.

Level 5 - Commanding Presence: Unless there's some cards that will have a really strong synergy based on both having their weapon equipment having a higher chance to draw your key cards seems far more valuable, though it would also probably make deck building more expensive, which would be a downside.

Level 6 - Spoils of War: Gold is just more useful overall, and if I want to I can even just directly spend that extra gold on the extended art I want of any rarity.

Level 7 - Retaliate: I can very easily see the AI killing itself with a board wipe with this talent, whereas the other option only adds 2 damage no mater how much you actually do, so while it's possible it would give you that little bit extra you need most of my arena games have ended with tons of overkill.

Level 8 - Strategist: This one was actually really hard to decide, and If not for the extra resource earlier I would have gone with Call to arms since it would give you a free troop if you miss your 1 drops, however if you're starting with 2 resources it would be very rare for an agro deck to not have a troop to play.

Level 9 - Intimidation: You should be putting pressure on the AI early so this should trigger fairly often which will let you double damage your troops even more often.

Level 10 - Battalion: Just seems far more reliable than hoping troops die in combat, especially since the AI tries to avoid blocking unless absolutely necessary, at which point it's usually too late for the AI anyway.

As for leveling, I think I'd prefer it if they had an overall account level, which unlocks new dungeons and keep upgrades as it increases and then also have champions you recruit and level who have talent trees with a bigger impact on battles.

Olfff
07-05-2015, 03:50 AM
I'm a heavy mill player, so most of the red tree don't speak to me very much.

Playing a very defensive focused necrotic I would pick all the blue tree perks, with the exception of tactician for mulligans and Intimidation for early charge gain in conjunction with Heroic Fortitude, Loyal retainer would be the perfect staling troop in these first few turns.

Also I would pick Spoils of war over Promote because I feel a random chance to get a random common or uncommon extended at best is not worth the loss of gold it would be.

Call to arms would be just great to board wipe safely knowing you always will have a troop on the board. These are great perk ideas, I'd love to see your mock skill tree for other classes than warrior.

I hope each hero will have at least 2 skill trees, one for class perks, one for racial perks, who knows, even unlock a 3rd one at very high level, the epic skill tree.

That would be awsome to me.

Flairina
07-05-2015, 08:39 AM
(Psst, for anyone else posting, as a lot of people seem to be missing it- bloodbath says troops have to die DURING COMBAT in order to work. Saccing and boardwipes will NOT trigger the extra turn!)

wolzarg
07-05-2015, 10:11 AM
(Psst, for anyone else posting, as a lot of people seem to be missing it- bloodbath says troops have to die DURING COMBAT in order to work. Saccing and boardwipes will NOT trigger the extra turn!)

What do you base this on? It says during combat not to combat damage these are widely different things.

Still superior to the alternative in most troop based decks i would say unless the ai intentionally plays around it but then the talent is basically pointless instead.

pjvedder
07-05-2015, 10:38 AM
Level 1 - Leader of Armies -- I thought this may have been a toss up for a little bit, since both of them are very conditional. However if you cater your deck to being very aggressive with a lot of low-cost troops, Leader of Armies will work out better. Plus, you can't exactly make a take that will fully take advantage of an opponent needing to deal 4+ damage.

Level 2 - Master of Techniques -- Since we picked Leader of Armies, we're going to assume we're playing a troop-heavy aggro deck. having a defensive troop (albeit a great one) to start the game doesn't really help out our game plan. But the chance at any one of the cards from MoT would help push damage through.

Level 3 - Heroic Fortitude - The life isn't as important here as the 1/1 resources to start the game. In an aggro deck this could really help knock your opponent off-balance early.

Level 4 - Savage Blows - Sticking with our theme here, getting double damage on turn 3 from a possible 4-cost troop with speed (Lord Alexander on turn 2) could put the nail in the coffin early on.

Level 5 - Commanding Presence - This choice was tough, but assuming we have that 1 card that will make the deck work, it's always better to have an extra one to help out the chances of pulling it.

Level 6 - Spoils of War - The promote ability is great in the short-term, but if you're sticking with only 1 main deck, this ability may become useless for you once you unlock all EA for your cards in that deck. Sure you can cycle out decks, but an extra 10% gold may pay for the EAs quickly enough anyway (depending on gold drop amounts). I just think it's the more versatile choice here.

Level 7 - Retaliate - This is a great protection for some of your troops. Your opponent would now have to think twice before blocking with a troop that was previously safe from your attacking troop's damage.

Level 8 - Strategist - This is just not fair for the AI. No matter what, all of your troops are getting a major upgrade here. Your early-game troops are most likely safe from previously-lethal damage, and your later-game troops can really finish your opponent off.

Level 9 - Undying - While this ability may not be taken advantage of much, it is a nice safety net if all else fails.

Level 10 - Battalion - This won't really help you out if you have a bunch of Unique cards in your deck, but I feel this would be much more effective than Bloodbath. Anything you can do to help reduce card-costs is very helpful.


In terms of what I'd like to see from Hex's leveling system, I think it would be pretty cool if it was something along the lines of what you outlined here. Perhaps you can spend some gold to reset your choices if needed. I'd also hope in addition to some kind of tiered ability tree like this, there could be rewards to reaching certain levels. Perhaps there are PVE cards that are only available if you get to Level X with a certain character class, or something along those lines.

Thanks for doing another awesome, thought-provoking contest!

IGN: pjvedder

Goliath764
07-05-2015, 12:24 PM
Level 1 - Wall of Iron
Five troops or more isn't something that will happen on every game with different decks. Wall of Ironis far more consistent and can possible help me sustain extra turns for the comeback of a godly topdeck.

Level 2 - Loyal Retainer
An early 2/4 really helps the early game, especially when it can be reused. Master of Techniques is more fun though but 2/4 defensive is just super good.

Level 3 - Tactician
Time to go to the more offensive tree! While I really like the 1/1 resource of Heroic Fortitude. Having a free mulligan means I can offensively mulligan an okay hand( with fair ratio of resources and plays) to a potential better hand with much more exciting cards.

Level 4 - Savage Blows
I like to finish the game earlier if possible, no extra draw for my opponent.

Level 5 - Commanding Presence
I like the opporturnity to put 5 of the few core cards into my deck for extra consistency.

Level 6 - Spoils of War
Gold is super valuable and flexible and I can always grab the AAs with the extra gold I earned anyway.

Level 7 - Overwhelming Assault
When it's time to go in, let's go all the way in! While you can argue that why I don't pick "Leader of Armies" for level 1 if I really want to be so aggressive, sometime I think you can do 6 damages with less than five troops so level 1 isn't as needed. I can go all in and just take less damage due to Wall of Iron and continue to swarm my opponent if necessary.

Level 8 - Strategist
A bunch of lower ATK defenders with Swiftstrike is super awesome. That's like a godlike wall of...something. 4 ATK or more with Crush is super amazing too. It helps with Overwhelming Assault and Savage Blows.

Level 9 - Undying
Undying is super flexible. I can go all-in and let my opponent go all-in and proceed to last longer with Undying and Wall of Iron. The extra draw and longing power can also help in a long game where I am struggle to survive but not quite dead yet. Intimidation is more "live and die by the sword", which is only useful if I am "living". I can also control how my opponent got through me with Undying. I can just let 3 life go through to lower myself below 5, block the other attacks and proceed to regain HP AND a card in the next turn.

Level 10 - Battalion
Being quicker than the opponent is super good. Ramp for the win!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the leveling system, I think it's probably just the standard "play and earn XP" approach. I would like a bonus and penalty system to prevent players from farming the fastest dungeon over and over again. The core idea is that if you keep playing a single dungeon/arena/whatever, the XP of that specific instance will decrease, sort of pushing you to play other contents first. This will hopefully allow players to try all the things out there instead of going to the same dungeon over and over again because it's the fastest, forever.

Maybe when your hero level is high, you can change the hero power to another power. So, a hero can have like 4-5 powers and as you level that hero up, you have more flexibility as to what kind of hero power do you want to use.

Another idea is a little bit of import from MMORPG to a card game. In MMORPG, we have character slots that we make our characters with. Maybe we can have "hero card" here to be our character of the game. Everyone will get a free hero card at first and can buy or acquire extra in different ways. Our hero card starts at level 1 and slowly gains level and such through using it. On every level, there will be multiple choices on things to unlock so every "Level 5 Orc Warrior" hero card is different based on the player's choice on the various levels. Maybe higher level hero card would have different art as to showcase the growth of the hero in art.

IGN: Goliathus

AdamAoE2
07-05-2015, 08:17 PM
I had a blast reading everyone's posts, and will be posting the drawing winners shortly. :-)

AdamAoE2
07-05-2015, 08:30 PM
And the winners are...


http://i.imgur.com/H2o2ZUn.png


Congratulations to Wolzarg, Strela, and Goliath764!

You each win a draft set! I will mail these prizes out to you guys tomorow evening. Thanks again to everyone for their posts - it was fun to read!

Strela
07-05-2015, 11:23 PM
Woot! First win in a Hex giveaway. I bet AA CMK is just around the corner... Better enter everything from now on.

Cernz
07-05-2015, 11:59 PM
the one and only warrior for sure:

http://ringthedamnbell.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/the_ultimate_warrior_photo_by_windows8osx-d509ynp.jpg

wolzarg
07-06-2015, 07:24 AM
Ha i was looking at that list like aww I'm in spot 25 thats so far from nr 1,2,3. Then i read my name and go wooo!

Goliath764
07-06-2015, 01:38 PM
Woot woot, thanks for the prize, good sir.

purehybrid
07-06-2015, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the competition/opportunity... back to the arena grind I guess xD