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View Full Version : So set 1 and 2 packs will be useless now?



regomar
07-12-2015, 09:31 AM
Am I understanding this right? What is the point of this? I can't think of ANY other card game that makes the vast majority of its packs worthless that quickly. Not everyone has tons of free time every week. Not even Magic is close to this outright hostile to people who have paid for their packs. I mean,I understand using 333 for release week, but forever with no 123 queues? What the hell kind of insult is that?

In before people with infinite free time try to tell me that I should have somehow anticipated that Hex would make the vast majority of packs worthless and then magically manifested oodles of free time to draft all my packs before the blade comes down.

Refugee
07-12-2015, 09:37 AM
I am willing to give you 5 plat for each of your set 1 and 2 packs to ease the pain of their passing. As they are becoming worthless I'm sure you will find this to be quite the bargain. I do this only out of the good of my own heart knowing I shall take a substantial loss.

regomar
07-12-2015, 09:38 AM
I am willing to give you 5 plat for each of your set 1 and 2 packs to ease the pain of their passing. As they are becoming worthless I'm sure you will find this to be quite the bargain. I do this only out of the good of my own heart knowing I shall take a substantial loss.

As anticipated, a useless, sarcastic response.

Refugee
07-12-2015, 09:46 AM
You are a good haggler! 7 plat then. Final offer. I have a family to support after all. Go ahead and send CoD to Refugee.

Mike411
07-12-2015, 09:47 AM
Am I understanding this right? What is the point of this? I can't think of ANY other card game that makes the vast majority of its packs worthless that quickly. Not everyone has tons of free time every week. Not even Magic is close to this outright hostile to people who have paid for their packs. I mean,I understand using 333 for release week, but forever with no 123 queues? What the hell kind of insult is that?

In before people with infinite free time try to tell me that I should have somehow anticipated that Hex would make the vast majority of packs worthless and then magically manifested oodles of free time to draft all my packs before the blade comes down.

If you feel they're going to be worthless (they won't be, but this is topic is all about your feelings), sell them. You can currently list set 1 packs for 151 plat and set 2 packs for 171 plat and you'll have the cheapest buyouts on the auction house.

regomar
07-12-2015, 09:50 AM
You are a good haggler! 7 plat then. Final offer. I have a family to support after all. Go ahead and send CoD to Refugee.

Insults and sarcasm are the last refuge of an clueless individual with nothing to say. If this is the caliber of person defending the game I'm sincerely worried about Hex's future.

regomar
07-12-2015, 09:52 AM
If you feel they're going to be worthless (they won't be, but this is topic is all about your feelings), sell them. You can currently list set 1 packs for 151 plat and set 2 packs for 171 plat and you'll have the cheapest buyouts on the auction house.

Am I right to assume by this response that I am correct in my understanding that set 1 and 2 packs will no longer be usable for competitive play? I have searched all of the news articles and not seen confirmation of this. The main reason I'm so upset s because I didn't even know this until I saw people discussing it on the forums. Why would people pay so much for packs of cards that cannot be used for competitive play? Selling them for those prices at this point would be nothing short of duping people who don't know about the sword of Damocles hanging over those packs' value.

Grimshaw
07-12-2015, 09:53 AM
We've been playing 2-2-1 drafts for 8 months at this point. I don't follow Magic, but I do believe that the final set of a block is in their draft formats for less time than that.

People are still selling hundreds of packs on the AH each day, even with the new set coming in a few days. I don't consider 140-150p per pack to be worthless. There will be still be chase constructed rares and legendaries only available from sets 1 and 2 that the packs will retain some value, post set 3 release.

Svenn
07-12-2015, 09:54 AM
Set 1 and 2 packs will not be worthless. Set 1 and 2 will still be valid in formats outside limited (Constructed and PvE). There was also talk of opening up 2-2-1 drafts again in the future. I don't know if/when that would happen, though.

This is something we've known about for a very long time. It's nothing new.

Grimshaw
07-12-2015, 09:56 AM
Am I right to assume by this response that I am correct in my understanding that set 1 and 2 packs will no longer be usable for competitive play? I have searched all of the news articles and not seen confirmation of this. The main reason I'm so upset s because I didn't even know this until I saw people discussing it on the forums. Why would people pay so much for packs of cards that cannot be used for competitive play? Selling them for those prices at this point would be nothing short of duping people who don't know about the sword of Damocles hanging over those packs' value.

Limited tournaments will no longer use the packs from sets 1 and 2. Those sets will still be constructed playable for a long time to come. There may be rare special events in the future that will bring back old formats for something like a special weekend.

A number of the packs sold are bought by people looking to use them today. Another number could be bought by players who are speculating on their long-term value.

regomar
07-12-2015, 09:57 AM
We've been playing 2-2-1 drafts for 8 months at this point. I don't follow Magic, but I do believe that the final set of a block is in their draft formats for less time than that.

People are still selling hundreds of packs on the AH each day, even with the new set coming in a few days. I don't consider 140-150p per pack to be worthless. There will be still be chase constructed rares and legendaries only available from sets 1 and 2 that the packs will retain some value, post set 3 release.

When I played Magic, Standard was 2-years worth of sets. Perhaps that has changed, but I doubt it. And even then Magic has plenty of ways to make slightly older sets useful like Extended, Legacy, Vintage, and myriad other formats. I wouldn't care as much about this is there were any plans whatsoever to make set 1 and 2 packs useful again for anything other than opening.

israel.kendall
07-12-2015, 09:58 AM
Am I right to assume by this response that I am correct in my understanding that set 1 and 2 packs will no longer be usable for competitive play? I have searched all of the news articles and not seen confirmation of this. The main reason I'm so upset s because I didn't even know this until I saw people discussing it on the forums. Why would people pay so much for packs of cards that cannot be used for competitive play? Selling them for those prices at this point would be nothing short of duping people who don't know about the sword of Damocles hanging over those packs' value.

The cards from set 1 and 2 can still be used for competitive play, just not limited formats.

regomar
07-12-2015, 09:59 AM
Set 1 and 2 packs will not be worthless. Set 1 and 2 will still be valid in formats outside limited (Constructed and PvE). There was also talk of opening up 2-2-1 drafts again in the future. I don't know if/when that would happen, though.

This is something we've known about for a very long time. It's nothing new.

If it's nothing new, show me where it was announced. As I've already said, I scoured the news articles and there is nothing about this that I have seen. If I missed an announcement, I'd like to see it please. Not everyone spends every day on these forums and nobody should have to in order to know about something this major.

Mike411
07-12-2015, 10:04 AM
Am I right to assume by this response that I am correct in my understanding that set 1 and 2 packs will no longer be usable for competitive play? I have searched all of the news articles and not seen confirmation of this. The main reason I'm so upset s because I didn't even know this until I saw people discussing it on the forums. Why would people pay so much for packs of cards that cannot be used for competitive play? Selling them for those prices at this point would be nothing short of duping people who don't know about the sword of Damocles hanging over those packs' value.

Yes, you won't be able to use them for draft or sealed unless they reintroduce them at a later date. They'll keep value for people that want to use set 1 and 2 cards for constructed play or PVE play or people that like to collect the packs/cards.

But in the end this is just my feelings on it which is why I recommended you sell them.

Refugee
07-12-2015, 10:04 AM
Insults and sarcasm are the last refuge of an clueless individual with nothing to say. If this is the caliber of person defending the game I'm sincerely worried about Hex's future.

I apologize. I thought it would be less offensive to be humorous than to outright call you either an idiot or intentionally deceitful. I see now that wasn't the case. So which is it? Are you too dumb to realize that the value of your set 1 and 2 packs has decreased by a small percentage or are you purposefully making statements too extreme to even be considered hyperbole?

Your packs are not becoming worthless. You know that. Either construct an honest argument or deal with being mocked. Here are some prompts to get you started:

"I'm disappointed I won't be able to draft set 1 and 2 anymore. I really enjoyed that format and would like to keep exploring it."

"It seems tedious to have to sell my set 1 and 2 packs to be able to fund my set 3 drafting. Maybe we should implement some sort of pack conversion mechanism."

"I think Hex should inform players more clearly about format changes before the purchase process. I wasn't aware of the upcoming changes and it feels unfair to me that I was able to make a purchase with incomplete information."

Claiming your packs are losing all value is ridiculous and makes you look like a troll or a nut. Either way my only interest in engaging with either class of people is through sarcasm.

Now see, I did have something left to say!

Grimshaw
07-12-2015, 10:10 AM
When I played Magic, Standard was 2-years worth of sets. Perhaps that has changed, but I doubt it. And even then Magic has plenty of ways to make slightly older sets useful like Extended, Legacy, Vintage, and myriad other formats. I wouldn't care as much about this is there were any plans whatsoever to make set 1 and 2 packs useful again for anything other than opening.

Standard is the constructed format though, right? The limited formats are done by block. In Hex, these first few sets will actually be constructed legal for greater than 2 years, so the best cards will continue to hold their value.

Looking back on it, I do agree that there should have been more front-page mentions of the fact the limited formats are transitioning to 3-3-3. I know it's well-discussed in the forums and on Twitch, but I can't recall seeing it in the News articles.

israel.kendall
07-12-2015, 10:12 AM
Really though, packs of current set in MTGO became so worthless that winning a tourney might let you break even value wise. While current set HEX pack prices have always stayed strong. I think you should be happy our economy is robust and not burning to the ground like MTGO.

eimerian
07-12-2015, 10:15 AM
I agree with Regomar that this should have been announced more clearly. I can't recall that the end of Set 1 & 2 limited was ever mentioned in a recent newsletter for example. (Or was it? Correct me, if I'm wrong!)

Just contrast this to the gold-bought AAs. We have been warned over and over again in several newsletters that they will be removed from the store "soon". That was communicated quite well, kudos CZE.

Hm, I wonder if there will be legacy limited tournaments in Hex's future :)

regomar
07-12-2015, 10:16 AM
I apologize.

Oh, well okay then, no worries! I'm so glad you didn't go on to add several ad hominem attacks and insults further proving how little how little you have to say on this matter.



I thought it would be less offensive to be humorous than to outright call you either an idiot or intentionally deceitful.

Oh.
Well thank you so much for thinking of my feelings and not wanting to offend me. My simple idiot brain simply cannot handle being offended by trolls on the Internet. See how much sarcasm adds to the value of conversations! We're being super constructive here!



Claiming your packs are losing all value is ridiculous and makes you look like a troll or a nut. Either way my only interest in engaging with either class of people is through sarcasm.

Now see, I did have something left to say!

I, like many, MANY other TCG players only open up packs via draft or sealed. If I cannot use them for the intention for which they were purchased, they have indeed become worthless to me. Either you're being deliberately obtuse or you're outright trolling me, in either case, consider this my last response to you. Don't expect me to take your bait again.

regomar
07-12-2015, 10:20 AM
I agree with Regomar that this should have been announced more clearly. I can't recall that the end of Set 1 & 2 limited was ever mentioned in a recent newsletter for example. (Or was it? Correct me, if I'm wrong!)

Just contrast this to the gold-bought AAs. We have been warned over and over again in several newsletters that they will be removed from the store "soon". That was communicated quite well, kudos CZE.

Hm, I wonder if there will be legacy limited tournaments in Hex's future :)

This. This is the issue. I would have been far less upset about this if we had received proper warning in the manner that we got for the alt art commons leaving the store. It's like they just forgot to mention it which is a rather huge oversight.

Mike411
07-12-2015, 10:27 AM
they have indeed become worthless to me

I wish you had added the 'to me' part earlier. That's totally fine that they're worthless to you. Luckily we have an auction house so you can sell them to people who don't consider them worthless.

Khazrakh
07-12-2015, 10:28 AM
I, like many, MANY other TCG players only open up packs via draft or sealed. If I cannot use them for the intention for which they were purchased, they have indeed become worthless to me. Either you're being deliberately obtuse or you're outright trolling me, in either case, consider this my last response to you. Don't expect me to take your bait again.

I don't really understand what you try to accomplish here.
We had 2-2-1 drafting for 8 months now and Set 3 is actually coming later than we expected some month ago so even without a lot of free time there was a rather large time span to open your boosters via draft. If you really bought more boosters than you could open that way in 8 months then you might consider buying less boosters up front next time.
If you won enough boosters to go (semi-)infinite then that's absolutely great and you actually gained value.
Either way you can easily sell your (by you) perceived worthless boosters on the AH and buy Set 3 boosters for the plat you made.

Refugee
07-12-2015, 10:29 AM
Oh, well okay then, no worries! I'm so glad you didn't go on to add several ad hominem attacks and insults further proving how little how little you have to say on this matter.




Oh.
Well thank you so much for thinking of my feelings and not wanting to offend me. My simple idiot brain simply cannot handle being offended by trolls on the Internet. See how much sarcasm adds to the value of conversations! We're being super constructive here!




I, like many, MANY other TCG players only open up packs via draft or sealed. If I cannot use them for the intention for which they were purchased, they have indeed become worthless to me. Either you're being deliberately obtuse or you're outright trolling me, in either case, consider this my last response to you. Don't expect me to take your bait again.

And yet, as I've attempted to simply demonstrate a number of times this is clearly untrue. If they were actually worthless to YOU you'd happily sell them to me for 7 plat each. You don't because you recognize the fact that you're lying. You know they have value to YOU because you can sell them for plat, which can be used to buy set 3 packs which can be used to draft! You go through unending logical contortions to avoid admitting this.

I also find it incredibly humorous how you attempt to make comparisons to magic based on woefully inaccurate premises. You compare the current draft rotation to constructed rotations (and legacy formats). Do you not understand the differences in these comparisons or are you again hoping to mislead people who don't know what you're talking about?

I'm also curious what games you've been playing where the packs you purchased never became ineligible for draft/sealed. I'd be interested to see how their economy held up and how quickly their queues fire.

I look forward to you responding to, well any of my points, rather than snipping out the pieces of my responses that don't address the topic directly and attacking those.

Oli
07-12-2015, 10:34 AM
This is the issue. I would have been far less upset about this if we had received proper warning in the manner that we got for the alt art commons leaving the store.
Maybe they changed their minds about this.
We still have no "official" confirmation that 2-2-1 is leaving the draft and sealed tournaments so far and I can see an uproar if they remove these formates without a proper warning.

Fyren
07-12-2015, 10:40 AM
Arright, guys, just... chill. Be cool. The players are enthusiastic, but this community deserves far more respect than being referred to as mindless sycophants; Nor, conversely, do we need to be sarcastic long after it stopped being funny. This ain't EVE and we're ideally above responding to upset players by yanking on nipples for more tears.

Mahes
07-12-2015, 10:47 AM
They will never be worthless. If all you do is play Sealed and Draft then you could sell or take a chance and open the remaining packs and sell the contents. I did that with my remaining 5 set 1 and 4 set 2 packs, and got a Reese and guardian out of it. Also remember that chests are about to have a market value.

I hated drafting 221 and I know I am not alone. I have no problem transitioning to a 333 format. I will say that finally getting asynch sealed in, was another reason I opened the remaining Set 1 and Set 2 packs. I do want to have a large amount of Set 3 so that I can both draft and run Asynch.

Could they continue 221? They sure could, but the odds of it firing off are pretty rare. You might like the format but most players who see a new set are about getting all the new cards and thus the 221 format would be dead for a while. That is just the way it is. The cards can still be used(and will be) in constructed which is about to get a large boost when they start tournaments for larger prizes.

The short answer, it is the nature of this game.


Oh and 221 is gone. It will not come back for a very long time. The reason being is that it would not fire very often and so why split the population even more than it will be now. I would guess that at least 75% of the population that drafts would not touch 221 for a long long time. The format has been out for a while now and in my opinion was not the best anyways since playing with 3 heroes got old fast.

Mike411
07-12-2015, 10:48 AM
Maybe they changed their minds about this.
We still have no "official" confirmation that 2-2-1 is leaving the draft and sealed tournaments so far and I can see an uproar if they remove these formates without a proper warning.

I wouldn't say there will be a significant uproar, but yeah if I were them I would have mentioned that the current plan for drafting is to be set 3 only as part of the announcement of the set 3 release date. Maybe they're reluctant to do that as they could always just put in 2-2-1 drafting if there really is a significant demand? *shrug*

regomar
07-12-2015, 10:49 AM
Maybe they changed their minds about this.
We still have no "official" confirmation that 2-2-1 is leaving the draft and sealed tournaments so far and I can see an uproar if they remove these formates without a proper warning.

Hopefully it's all forum speculation, because no matter how long I look there has been NO announcement to this effect.

Svenn
07-12-2015, 10:50 AM
Maybe they changed their minds about this.
We still have no "official" confirmation that 2-2-1 is leaving the draft and sealed tournaments so far and I can see an uproar if they remove these formates without a proper warning.

http://2turnsahead.com/episode-50-conversation-with-cory-jones/

https://www.reddit.com/r/hextcg/comments/33osog/eta_for_set_3/

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39316

nicosharp
07-12-2015, 10:52 AM
Insults and sarcasm are the last refuge of an clueless individual with nothing to say. If this is the caliber of person defending the game I'm sincerely worried about Hex's future.
You know nothing Jon Snow.

regomar
07-12-2015, 10:52 AM
http://2turnsahead.com/episode-50-conversation-with-cory-jones/

https://www.reddit.com/r/hextcg/comments/33osog/eta_for_set_3/

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39316

None of those are official news posts. The majority of players never even visit the forums, much less listen to podcasts. It is extremely bad policy to not announce a decision like this in a news post. Are you seriously saying that all Hex players should be expected to listen to every podcast and subreddit just in case a major policy is announced there and not on the main page that's used for announcements?

nicosharp
07-12-2015, 10:56 AM
They need to say more, but with a $100,000 tournament coming up, and all sets being legal, it is pretty foolish to say set 1 and set 2 have no value.
What you really want to know is how will set 1 and set 2 packs make their way back to limited formats.
I think HEX has an obligation to do this over the long haul as the game is still in beta. As the playerbase increases, the demand for older in-print limited formats to be playable will be very high.

Svenn
07-12-2015, 11:01 AM
None of those are official news posts. The majority of players never even visit the forums, much less listen to podcasts. It is extremely bad policy to not announce a decision like this in a news post. Are you seriously saying that all Hex players should be expected to listen to every podcast and subreddit just in case a major policy is announced there and not on the main page that's used for announcements?

Not a news post, but the first post is an interview with official confirmation of 3-3-3. It's happening. And Colin is as close to official as you can get without being official.

I don't have time to dig up any old info, but we've known about the set rotations for years now. From official sources, I just don't remember where because it's been so long. I thought it was pretty common knowledge at this point.

Oli
07-12-2015, 11:05 AM
http://2turnsahead.com/episode-50-conversation-with-cory-jones/
https://www.reddit.com/r/hextcg/comments/33osog/eta_for_set_3/
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39316

These are all no "official" announcements. Official announcements use the proper channels and are translated to all available languages.

We have these kinds of information all the time and plans do change all the time too.
Initially it was commonly known that the extended-art was used by the doubleback feature, and the "official" announcement was quite different.

So as long as there is no "official" announcement it's not "official".

regomar
07-12-2015, 11:07 AM
These are all no "official" announcements. Official announcements use the proper channels and are translated to all available languages.

We have these kinds of information all the time and plans do change all the time too.
Initially it was commonly known that the extended-art was used by the doubleback feature, and the "official" announcement was quite different.

So as long as there is no "official" announcement it's not "official".

Exactly. It's surprising that this even needs to be said.

Biz
07-12-2015, 11:07 AM
it depends how many serious new constructed players the game gets

as long as there's a demand for OP set1 and set2 cards, the pack price shouldn't nosedive too much

Svenn
07-12-2015, 11:13 AM
Pretty sure it was 3-3-3 on the official test server as well. You can keep grasping at straws, but 3-3-3 is what it's going to be.

Fyren
07-12-2015, 11:14 AM
Pretty sure it was 3-3-3 on the official test server as well. You can keep grasping at straws, but 3-3-3 is what it's going to be.

I can at least confirm this. It was indeed 3-3-3 only on the test server.

Tazelbain
07-12-2015, 11:15 AM
Hyperbole aside value of packs of old sets are going to take a hit and they are going to take a hit because a decision HexEnt made to not support older limited formats. I am definitely going to be careful about the numbers of Set 03 packs I buy because they have a much shorter shelf-life than originally thought.

regomar
07-12-2015, 11:16 AM
Hyperbole aside value of packs of old sets are going to take a hit and they are going to take a hit because a decision HexEnt made to not support older limited formats. I am definitely going to be careful about the numbers of Set 03 packs I buy because they have a much shorter shelf originally thought.

Same here and I doubt we'll be the only ones after this.

regomar
07-12-2015, 11:17 AM
Pretty sure it was 3-3-3 on the official test server as well. You can keep grasping at straws, but 3-3-3 is what it's going to be.

Nobody's grasping at anything. I asked to be directed at an official announcement. There apparently is not one. Do you think the average player is on the test server when most don't even read the forums? The announcements page is there for a reason.

Fyren
07-12-2015, 11:26 AM
Same here and I doubt we'll be the only ones after this.

It'll be well over a year before Set 3 rotates out. With the next major content patch being PVE and then likely Set 4 after that, with Set 4 likely being around a good long while, you don't have to worry about the draft life of your packs just yet. Plus, you can still sell them for plat and then get the next set. So I don't see too much cause for critical concern re: the shelf life of your packs. The difficulty in acquiring set 1/2 cards thereafter is something that concerns me - which is why I'm drafting like I have a problem.


Nobody's grasping at anything. I asked to be directed at an official announcement. There apparently is not one. Do you think the average player is on the test server when most don't even read the forums? The announcements page is there for a reason.

Calm down, man. I know some of us in this chat have shown less than delightful manners, but double check where things are directed. I don't think he was talking to you; he was talking to the people who thought/hoped that 2-2-1 would still be a thing on the launch of Set 3 or the near future.

On that topic I hope it does return eventually, as I'm not quite done with the playsets.

Sparrow
07-12-2015, 11:29 AM
While I prefer 221 queues remain until both sets rotate out of constructed play, I understand the reasoning behind temporarily suspending them. Hex knows how many unopened set 1 and 2 packs are still in accounts of players that play limited and it's probably a non-trivial number. It makes sense from a $$ perspective to temporarily withdraw 221 so limited players get their fix by playing 333.

Some are saying 221 will never be back, others only for special events, but I think within a few months there will be regular 221 draft/sealed queues again.

Mike411
07-12-2015, 11:30 AM
I don't have time to dig up any old info, but we've known about the set rotations for years now. From official sources, I just don't remember where because it's been so long. I thought it was pretty common knowledge at this point.

If it's nailed down, they should put the info in https://www.hextcg.com/game/tournaments/ along with a note in the friday update.

That being said, if the argument is turning into 'I bought a ton of set 1 and 2 assuming I could always use them in limited' - yeah, that seems like a bad idea without some kind of indication that there's a guarantee of being able to use them when set 3 releases. Don't assume.

Sparrow
07-12-2015, 11:40 AM
As a quick note, briefly going back through the forum, October 2nd, 2013 was the first mention I could find of block 1 only consisting of sets 1 and 2.

As of September of 2014, there was no word on when 221 would be unavailable for limited. Got bored sifting through old threads, maybe someone else can narrow it down.

Search term: set rotation

Edit: Also, I thought I recalled an official announcement about it, but I can't remember if it was via an orange post or in one of the weekly updates.

PureVapes
07-12-2015, 11:47 AM
I bet there were furious IRL versions of this thread back when MtG started rotation. Imagine the fire selling of all those old cards and packs because people thought they'd be worthless!

OP and anyone else who has old MtG boxes you feel are worthless, feel free to PM me. I enjoy hosting the occasional throwback draft. :)

Gwaer
07-12-2015, 12:02 PM
There was an official announcement, it has just fallen off the front page of articles on Hextcg.com and is inconvenient for me to pull up on my cellphone because they gave so much warning. They could have mentioned it a few more times in official articles I guess. But like everyone else said set 1-2 are still constructed playable and won't rotate out of constructed until after at least set 6, probably set 7.

Sparrow
07-12-2015, 12:03 PM
I bet there were furious IRL versions of this thread back when MtG started rotation. Imagine the fire selling of all those old cards and packs because people thought they'd be worthless!

OP and anyone else who has old MtG boxes you feel are worthless, feel free to PM me. I enjoy hosting the occasional throwback draft. :)
Back then, WotC originally stated that Invasion (the first set available on MTGO) would remain on sale past the date they were ending paper sales for that set, as well as leaving the formats in place, because MTGO didn't go live until after all of IPA was released in paper, I believe. Then they reneged on that. As I recall there was some outcry about it, but people got over it fairly quickly. MTGO was really something special back then as there was nothing else like it and it was before the disasters that were version 2.doh, 3.0, and 4.0, so that probably had something to do with the disappointment being short-lived. I think the disappointment will fade quickly here, as well.

shocker455
07-12-2015, 12:57 PM
they announced multiple times that the blocks were going to be
1+2
3+4
then most likely switching to a 3set block format
5+6+7
8+9+10

Now granted their wasn't a reminder for new players recently.

Now i dont understand how you dont think other tcg do this, when this is the normal tcg model. You dont walk into a store and expect to draft an old block after a new block comes out.

Diesbudt
07-12-2015, 01:06 PM
They need to say more, but with a $100,000 tournament coming up, and all sets being legal, it is pretty foolish to say set 1 and set 2 have no value.
What you really want to know is how will set 1 and set 2 packs make their way back to limited formats.
I think HEX has an obligation to do this over the long haul as the game is still in beta. As the playerbase increases, the demand for older in-print limited formats to be playable will be very high.

Also, if they kept older draft sets, the prizes would have to be in the same packs. So players could not buy cheaper packs (1 & 2) to win set 3 packs. Because then the value will flucuate a lot and not be as stable an economy, especially since they already generate 150% +(any primal procs) of gold input, so they are already losing on pack prizes vs selling in the store. That cannot be degraded much more.

This even more so makes 2-2-1 less played, and thus rarely fires, thus making 2-2-1 packs less value all the same.

While I see no reason to get rid of it, it would only generate set 1/2 packs as it does now and wouldn't be very popular with 3-3-3 until many months down the line.

Diesbudt
07-12-2015, 01:08 PM
I bet there were furious IRL versions of this thread back when MtG started rotation. Imagine the fire selling of all those old cards and packs because people thought they'd be worthless!

OP and anyone else who has old MtG boxes you feel are worthless, feel free to PM me. I enjoy hosting the occasional throwback draft. :)

You just want a lotus don't you. :rolleyes:

katkillad
07-12-2015, 01:27 PM
When we are 7-8 months into Set 3 wondering when we will get Set 4, it will be a welcoming change bringing back 1-1-1 and/or 2-2-1.

Packs aren't worthless.

Fyren
07-12-2015, 01:33 PM
When we are 7-8 months into Set 3 wondering when we will get Set 4, it will be a welcoming change bringing back 1-1-1 and/or 2-2-1.

Packs aren't worthless.

Oooh. Actually, I >Like< that idea. People were complaining about getting bored of 2-2-1... So since Set 4 is 8 months away or so, I like the idea of reintroducing it to break up draft monotony some months down the line, especially with a smaller card pool than either 2-2-1 or 1-1-1.

Diesbudt
07-12-2015, 01:44 PM
Oooh. Actually, I >Like< that idea. People were complaining about getting bored of 2-2-1... So since Set 4 is 8 months away or so, I like the idea of reintroducing it to break up draft monotony some months down the line, especially with a smaller card pool than either 2-2-1 or 1-1-1.

I think 3 months down the road is the right amount.

Sparrow
07-12-2015, 02:00 PM
I think 3 months down the road is the right amount.
Given the size of the sets I don't think 3 months is reasonable right now. If they end up going to a core set, with 2 smaller expansions then 3 months would be okay. I personally think 6 months is the right amount of time, currently.

Anyone know where the bottleneck is for introducing new sets? Is it trouble programming new mechanics? Getting the artwork lined up? Are original plans for the game needing to be reworked? Lack of play-testers to get new sets out in a timely manner?

Aradon
07-12-2015, 02:25 PM
Given the size of the sets I don't think 3 months is reasonable right now. If they end up going to a core set, with 2 smaller expansions then 3 months would be okay. I personally think 6 months is the right amount of time, currently.

Anyone know where the bottleneck is for introducing new sets? Is it trouble programming new mechanics? Getting the artwork lined up? Are original plans for the game needing to be reworked? Lack of play-testers to get new sets out in a timely manner?

I'm pretty sure the bottleneck is in technical implementation. Getting the coding to work right for the last 5% of the cards is very difficult, and often requires new coding in rules logic and such. Artwork hasn't been a time limitation in the past, I don't think, and they're pretty well ahead on set design itself.

magic_gazz
07-12-2015, 02:37 PM
Im still not really sure what the OP's complaint is.

He has some set 1 and 2 packs that he can sell for plat and is upset why?

Fyren
07-12-2015, 02:41 PM
Im still not really sure what the OP's complaint is.

He has some set 1 and 2 packs that he can sell for plat and is upset why?

It might be that once they're no longer being drafted it becomes more difficult to acquire playsets of them because there won't be as many in circulation. That's all I can think of, but I could imagine being a bit "Wait, WHAT?" if I hadn't basically been aware of how it was handled for the past several months.

The complaint about the 'packs being worthless' doesn't... make a ton of sense, I agree, though.

Sparrow
07-12-2015, 02:43 PM
Im still not really sure what the OP's complaint is.

He has some set 1 and 2 packs that he can sell for plat and is upset why?
He doesn't want to sell them at a loss, he wants to play limited after Set 3 release without having to lay out more money. I don't think that's unreasonable, though I understand the need to discontinue 221 right now.

I took his position to be fairly obvious, btw, so if my sarcasm detector failed to go off, apologies in advance.

magic_gazz
07-12-2015, 02:50 PM
He doesn't want to sell them at a loss, he wants to play limited after Set 3 release without having to lay out more money. I don't think that's unreasonable, though I understand the need to discontinue 221 right now.

I took his position to be fairly obvious, btw, so if my sarcasm detector failed to go off, apologies in advance.

He claims to have played other games though, so rotation should be something he is aware of.

If he is only buying packs to draft (as he claims), then there would be no reason to buy a large amount in bulk as you would not know how many you need.

To the OP, how many packs of each do you currently have?

Aradon
07-12-2015, 02:51 PM
Yeah. Complaint is that he has packs and wants to play limited, but will lose money right now selling old packs to buy new ones. Makes sense. 'Worthless' isn't quite right, but worthless in the perspective of just playing limited, yeah.

Sparrow
07-12-2015, 02:58 PM
He was probably expecting what MTGO does. The last two blocks have always been available for limited, at least as of a couple years ago. But then in MTGO, one block is a core set plus 2 expansions, so it's a different animal.

He really got off on the wrong foot by calling the packs worthless, since they're obviously not.

Edit: I wonder if 332 was considered?

Tazelbain
07-12-2015, 04:33 PM
I think 3 months down the road is the right amount.And I would be fine with that if they announced it so we can plan.

Gwaer
07-12-2015, 04:47 PM
And I would be fine with that if they announced it so we can plan.

There will be events that use older packs in the future, we don't need an exact plan, or timing. It will happen.

Thoom
07-12-2015, 05:07 PM
Now i dont understand how you dont think other tcg do this, when this is the normal tcg model. You dont walk into a store and expect to draft an old block after a new block comes out.

But you can get together with your friends and draft old sets, or cube draft using cards from those sets. Which is something you can't do in Hex, because you can't play 40 card decks outside of officially sanctioned limited tournaments.

I don't care quite so much about value (because I know my packs will eventually have enormous value when they go out of print), but it does make me sad that in the future I'll never/very rarely (barring a huge change of policy/plans) be able to play 1-1-1, 2-2-1, or 2-2-2 again. They're fun formats and don't deserve to to be relegated to the scrap heap like that.

Svenn
07-12-2015, 08:16 PM
But you can get together with your friends and draft old sets, or cube draft using cards from those sets. Which is something you can't do in Hex, because you can't play 40 card decks outside of officially sanctioned limited tournaments.

I don't care quite so much about value (because I know my packs will eventually have enormous value when they go out of print), but it does make me sad that in the future I'll never/very rarely (barring a huge change of policy/plans) be able to play 1-1-1, 2-2-1, or 2-2-2 again. They're fun formats and don't deserve to to be relegated to the scrap heap like that.

What they need to do (and I know stuff similar to this has been mentioned) is just allow player run tournaments (with no official prizing) in which you can set parameters like which set packs to use. Then you can set up 2-2-1 drafts, or wacky things like 1-1-3 or 7-2-13 or whatever.

Gwaer
07-12-2015, 08:19 PM
I'd totally run my own phantom drafts, everyone pays me gold, I let them open my packs and play with them, i get gold and cards back at the end. Bwahahaha!

Thoom
07-12-2015, 10:58 PM
What they need to do (and I know stuff similar to this has been mentioned) is just allow player run tournaments (with no official prizing) in which you can set parameters like which set packs to use. Then you can set up 2-2-1 drafts, or wacky things like 1-1-3 or 7-2-13 or whatever.

This, plus allowing 40 card decks in "friend challenge" matches would be awesome.

Sparrow
07-13-2015, 12:42 AM
What they need to do (and I know stuff similar to this has been mentioned) is just allow player run tournaments (with no official prizing) in which you can set parameters like which set packs to use. Then you can set up 2-2-1 drafts, or wacky things like 1-1-3 or 7-2-13 or whatever.
I like the idea but I don't think it could ever happen without a fee of some sort -- and probably not even then. By having something like this, Hex would open the door to allowing private parties the ability to offer events that compete with the existing queues. There are plenty of people, guilds, and online stores I'd trust to charge an entry fee, put on a private event, and then pay out prizes afterward.

If Cory has said in the past this might happen (I don't know if he has or hasn't) I've got to believe he's sobered up by now and realized the idea is a non-starter from a business perspective.

Gwaer
07-13-2015, 01:19 AM
The product being opened for limited tournaments is still good for their business. It's harder to justify constricted but similarly to the shard cup driving up prices right before them popular this party tournaments should drive demands of their products. A 'kitchen table' option where friends can play how they want to play is similarly just required. Where the players can agree to take back moves or give one player a handicap of health or cards basically just let them use some cheats for fun / learning.

Valnir
07-13-2015, 03:32 AM
Am I understanding this right? What is the point of this? I can't think of ANY other card game that makes the vast majority of its packs worthless that quickly. Not everyone has tons of free time every week. Not even Magic is close to this outright hostile to people who have paid for their packs. I mean,I understand using 333 for release week, but forever with no 123 queues? What the hell kind of insult is that?

In before people with infinite free time try to tell me that I should have somehow anticipated that Hex would make the vast majority of packs worthless and then magically manifested oodles of free time to draft all my packs before the blade comes down.


I havent read the whole topic, but anyone mentioned, that they can be used in constructed, pve, PG, and meybe some other features in the future?
They can go down in price, becouse everyone want to make as much profit as he/she can before set 3 fires..
After the hype set 1 and 2 cant be obtained via draft so the production of these packs slows down. Set 1, 2 cards can be only obtained by opening the packs or AH..
The supply will decrease.. of course the demand will be lower too, but in rates with time the walue of these packs (and good, usefull cards) will increase..

But this is only my gues.. probably here are more players who wont agree with me.. it realy depends on how fast you want to make profit and how fast can you react to the changing of the market.
anyway good luck!

Sparrow
07-13-2015, 03:34 AM
@ Gwaer -- Can you name any other TCG's that have this feature for limited? I'd like to see a working example of it and investigate further.

RamzaBehoulve
07-13-2015, 03:51 AM
I don't see the issue. The value of cards inside s1 and s2 packs will increase over time after a while and thus the value of the packs themselves will increase.

Being disapointed about not being able to play 2-2-1 is one thing, but complaining about pack value at this point is indeed rather pointless (as it has been pointed out a few times already in more offensive terms).

L1ght
07-13-2015, 03:59 AM
I for one am already nostalgic for Set 1, 1, 1 draft - most well rounded draft experience in TCG history - no jokes.

Hope this gets added in as a legacy draft format soon!

Poetic
07-13-2015, 04:29 AM
I can dig that L1ght, I enjoyed 111 way more than 221.

propa
07-13-2015, 04:55 AM
Wtf you talking about op? I crack like100 pack this week cause people panicing and selling for lo0w price and I get profit like 10k plat, not counting chest. You should learn more before qqing pack are worthless

Svenn
07-13-2015, 06:34 AM
I like the idea but I don't think it could ever happen without a fee of some sort -- and probably not even then. By having something like this, Hex would open the door to allowing private parties the ability to offer events that compete with the existing queues. There are plenty of people, guilds, and online stores I'd trust to charge an entry fee, put on a private event, and then pay out prizes afterward.

If Cory has said in the past this might happen (I don't know if he has or hasn't) I've got to believe he's sobered up by now and realized the idea is a non-starter from a business perspective.

It wouldn't really cannibalize the existing queues because it's a net loss in terms of value. There are no prizes or anything. It's actually not a business issue, because packs would still be cracked. In fact, for HexEnt it's actually a bigger gain than the current queues because people still have to buy the 3/6 packs but no new packs would be generated.

Thoom
07-13-2015, 06:38 AM
@ Gwaer -- Can you name any other TCG's that have this feature for limited? I'd like to see a working example of it and investigate further.

Paper TCGs, around an actual kitchen table.

Sparrow
07-13-2015, 08:38 AM
It wouldn't really cannibalize the existing queues because it's a net loss in terms of value. There are no prizes or anything. It's actually not a business issue, because packs would still be cracked. In fact, for HexEnt it's actually a bigger gain than the current queues because people still have to buy the 3/6 packs but no new packs would be generated.
I slept on this and as long as packs are being consumed, I can see it doesn't really matter.

@Thoom -- as I lay in bed, falling asleep, I was asking myself if I specified digital TCG's and whether I'd wake up to my serious question being dismissed. I guess the answer to my actual question, though, is "no other games do it".

Gwaer
07-13-2015, 08:41 AM
Hex trying to do things no other games do is kind of the norm.

The_Lannisters
07-13-2015, 08:44 AM
I can dig that L1ght, I enjoyed 111 way more than 221.

221 got a bit samey fast. Funny that. In 221 it just feels that you have to go for one of clearly defined AqT's ... I'm super-hyped for 333 though. I really hope it does not get old way before set4.

Sparrow
07-13-2015, 09:24 AM
Hex trying to do things no other games do is kind of the norm.
Yeah, I know. Just wanted to find a working model for it somewhere.

Thoom
07-13-2015, 10:39 AM
I don't believe any other digital card games do it (though I believe a few RTSs do), but I think it's important for the value of our collections that we be able to do pretty much anything we could with physical cards, including breaking a reasonable amount of rules in private matches.

Crimguy
07-13-2015, 10:43 AM
I think I'm having a hard time with one issue - as the server generates tourneys all by itself, on a set schedule, why not have additional drafts for other set combos? Continue to offer up 2-2-1 drafts for those of us who are relatively new. Have 3-2-1 drafts, 3-3-2 drafts, etc. Just make them less frequent than the 3-3-3 drafts.

Additonally - when you click on a tournament, it should really show pack/set limitations in the rules tab. I have a feeling most noobs like me had no idea there were limitations on drafts.

ziggarius
07-13-2015, 10:44 AM
I think I'm having a hard time with one issue - as the server generates tourneys all by itself, on a set schedule, why not have additional drafts for other set combos? Continue to offer up 2-2-1 drafts for those of us who are relatively new. Have 3-2-1 drafts, 3-3-2 drafts, etc. Just make them less frequent than the 3-3-3 drafts.

Additonally - when you click on a tournament, it should really show pack/set limitations in the rules tab. I have a feeling most noobs like me had no idea there were limitations on drafts.

Playerbase is too low to split them up between 3-3-3 and 2-2-1 drafts at this time is what it boils down to.

Crimguy
07-13-2015, 10:49 AM
That makes sense. We need more people then :-D

x78089
07-13-2015, 11:26 AM
Well regomar, you are getting an extra week or so to expend those packs.

IndigoShade
07-13-2015, 12:29 PM
Your set 1 & 2 packs aren't worthless for maybe up to a whole more week now!

vickrpg
07-13-2015, 01:27 PM
I think player created queues are the solution. They should either free with no prizes, or paid with automatic prizes/entry fees that still go to CZE, or the ability to choose which one.

Eg.: Player creates 1-1-1 Draft, Free, no prizes (must bring own packs) fires when full.
Player creates 2-2-1 draft, 100 plat, (current prize support for 2-2-1 draft)
Player creates 3-3-3 draft, 100 plat, normal prize support, password protected.

etc.

nicosharp
07-13-2015, 01:29 PM
I think player created queues are the solution. They should either free with no prizes, or paid with automatic prizes/entry fees that still go to CZE, or the ability to choose which one.

Eg.: Player creates 1-1-1 Draft, Free, no prizes (must bring own packs) fires when full.
Player creates 2-2-1 draft, 100 plat, (current prize support for 2-2-1 draft)
Player creates 3-3-3 draft, 100 plat, normal prize support, password protected.

etc.
Cool Idea - However, would need to have a stipulation attached to it, or financial disincentive to the creator, to control spam.

vickrpg
07-13-2015, 01:34 PM
Cool Idea - However, would need to have a stipulation attached to it, or financial disincentive to the creator, to control spam.

I would mitigate that by having player created tourneys in a separate tab, search and filterable, and let people spam them as much as they want.

EDIT: I would also make the system prevent non-password protected events from being created. so if You want a 1-1-1 free draft, and there's already one open, it puts you in that queue instead. but you could still create a 1-1-1 paid draft. or a 1-1-1 free PW protected draft, that wouldn't even show up on the list, you just tell 8 friends about it.

EDIT 2: This would also be an awesome way to implement guild tourneys and other filters for events. as you could say, run a rock league Gauntlet.

thegreybetween
07-13-2015, 01:40 PM
I really like the idea of password-protected player-created limited queues becoming available in the future. To facilitate them, require that all players currently own the requisite packs (i.e. no plat-only entry fee which covers packs). A nice way to handle prizing would be to allow the host/creator to assign prize brackets and fund them directly. Such queues would ideally be free to enter, but I could see a nominal plat fee for the convenience factor of tournament administration.

For example: A guild wants to run an in-house Sealed tournament. Set the queue to X players (where X is at least 8) with a password and build the prize brackets to offer specified payouts from assets held in the guild bank (or a guild admin's account). Players can enter if they have the necessary packs, the password, and whatever token fee HXE charged for access to the queue.

Down the road a ways, I'm sure. But definitely a feature that would see some use.

Xexist
07-13-2015, 01:42 PM
Let guild leaders (I dont mean the KS tiers) set prized etc so they can collect donations and run custom large tourneys within the guild

vickrpg
07-13-2015, 01:56 PM
Let guild leaders (I dont mean the KS tiers) set prized etc so they can collect donations and run custom large tourneys within the guild

That would work too, but I like the idea of a "paid on" mode which just uses official automatic prize support that was used in the past, as long as the set is still in print.

RanaDunes
07-13-2015, 02:56 PM
Playerbase is too low to split them up between 3-3-3 and 2-2-1 drafts at this time is what it boils down to.

Everyone who thinks that is stupid.
The only logical reason to stop 2-2-1 is to make people buy Set 3 packs only since market is flooded with Set 1 and 2.

If you really think removing 2-2-1 is because of splitting community then how do you explain Gauntlet? Or all those other formats. It is an insult of an excuse and only idiots would believe it. I love HexEnt but I HATE stupidity and I hate bullshit.

2-2-1 would NEVER split the community. 3-3-3 will fire too frequently because it's a new set while 2-2-1 will fire slower but hey... it's an option. I don't buy this bullshit.

RanaDunes
07-13-2015, 02:58 PM
Playerbase is too low to split them up between 3-3-3 and 2-2-1 drafts at this time is what it boils down to.

Everyone who thinks that is stupid.
The only logical reason to stop 2-2-1 is to make people buy Set 3 packs only since market is flooded with Set 1 and 2.

If you really think removing 2-2-1 is because of splitting community then how do you explain Gauntlet? Or all those other formats. It is an insult of an excuse and only idiots would believe it. I love HexEnt but I HATE stupidity and I hate bullshit.

2-2-1 would NEVER split the community. 3-3-3 will fire too frequently because it's a new set while 2-2-1 will fire slower but hey... it's an option. I don't buy this bullshit.

nicosharp
07-13-2015, 03:06 PM
Everyone who thinks that is stupid.
The only logical reason to stop 2-2-1 is to make people buy Set 3 packs only since market is flooded with Set 1 and 2.

If you really think removing 2-2-1 is because of splitting community then how do you explain Gauntlet? Or all those other formats. It is an insult of an excuse and only idiots would believe it. I love HexEnt but I HATE stupidity and I hate bullshit.

2-2-1 would NEVER split the community. 3-3-3 will fire too frequently because it's a new set while 2-2-1 will fire slower but hey... it's an option. I don't buy this bullshit.
I don't think it's "bullshit". It's a fair perspective that given more choice, it may take players longer wait times to have queues fire.

As you said yourself - "How do you explain Gauntlet?" They are adding more queues - with each new queue type comes more variety that split the playerbase up a bit into different preference buckets. This will obviously increase the queue times and fire times.

From a very simplistic perspective you have 16 players that want to play. If you had 1 8man queue all 16 may choose to play it. If you had 2 queues 12 may want to be in queue 1 format, and 4 might want to be in queue 2 format. Over time, players may shift from 1 queue to the other to get it to fire, but other players may be firm on the queue they want to play, and either not budge or log off if it doesn't fire.

In it's most simplistic form, more queues do 'split' the playerbase. (Of course examples like the gauntlet are less likely to split a playerbase - because the format is 100% different than the usual queue comparison to 8-man drafts).

TOOT
07-13-2015, 03:13 PM
All those other formats which you speak of, add to the problem of pulling people in too many directions.

Removing 2-2-1 as an option helps keep activity up on 3-3-3 and both gauntlets.

Guess you can add me to the idiot camp!

Yoss
07-13-2015, 03:36 PM
Also, Gauntlet brings in a large swath of new players that would otherwise not be playing tournaments because they cannot spend 2+ hours for a draft. So while it may (or may not) be splitting the base, it is also increasing the base at the same time.

Jonesy
07-13-2015, 04:07 PM
Even if 2-2-1 still existed it would never fire because the vast majority of people want to draft what's new. It's a waste of time for CZE to code it and it would be a waste of time for you to sit in the queue waiting. And even if I were wrong and there was a fair amount of interest well then you know how it sucks when there's four people in comp and four people in swiss and neither is starting? It's not going to be more fun to have two people in four different queues with none of them starting.

Gauntlet isn't pulling people away from draft, it's pulling in people who don't have time to draft.

Dorkelvania
07-13-2015, 04:35 PM
As someone who, up until Hex, last played TCGs an extremely long time ago (and even then only casually), I feel like this whole issue underscores one of Hex's biggest problems: There appears to be a widespread assumption by the game's developers that the player base is familiar with the ins and outs of how competitive TCGs work, so a lot of things go unexplained.

Things have improved a TON since Phenteo was brought on as community manager, but there's never been a clear explanation on official channels about what sets will constitute which blocks, whether set 1 and 2 packs will be able to be used for any kind of limited play once Set 3 launches, or really how any of the whole "block" stuff works on an extremely basic level. Most of what I know about this game I've learned from guildmates who are more experienced in the ways of TCGs than I am.

The messaging for casual players, many of whom I'm guessing got into the genre playing Hearthstone, leaves a lot to be desired. A FAQ a month or two before a new set or feature releases, pinned to the top of the official game website and the forums, and called out with an in-game message blast, would go a long way.

Sparrow
07-13-2015, 04:43 PM
The only way having 221 is a problem (for those that don't want to play 221) is if it significantly impacts launch times for 333 drafts and 333333 sealed events don't fire because there are too many people sitting in the 222211 events waiting for those to fire.

I don't see how this could be a problem initially when everyone is primed to start playing set 3. It could be a problem down the road, though. It makes sense from a business perspective to just take 221 out now to A) Avoid waiting too long and having split queues be a problem and B) Force players that really, really want to draft right now to buy product from the store so they can get their fix, rather than relying on unopened set 1 and 2 packs that have already been purchased.

ziggarius
07-13-2015, 05:00 PM
Everyone who thinks that is stupid.
The only logical reason to stop 2-2-1 is to make people buy Set 3 packs only since market is flooded with Set 1 and 2.

If you really think removing 2-2-1 is because of splitting community then how do you explain Gauntlet? Or all those other formats. It is an insult of an excuse and only idiots would believe it. I love HexEnt but I HATE stupidity and I hate bullshit.

2-2-1 would NEVER split the community. 3-3-3 will fire too frequently because it's a new set while 2-2-1 will fire slower but hey... it's an option. I don't buy this bullshit.

Sure, I'll explain it very simple words for you to understand since you're throwing names around :)

Gauntlet doesn't target the audience that has 3 hours to draft. It's targeting the population of people that have 30 minutes to an hour to play a game, and come back later. This isn't "splitting" the existing drafters, it's bringing in people who currently do not play the game cause they can't with their time restrictions.

Was that simple enough for you? :D

Diesbudt
07-13-2015, 06:41 PM
Sure, I'll explain it very simple words for you to understand since you're throwing names around :)

Gauntlet doesn't target the audience that has 3 hours to draft. It's targeting the population of people that have 30 minutes to an hour to play a game, and come back later. This isn't "splitting" the existing drafters, it's bringing in people who currently do not play the game cause they can't with their time restrictions.

Was that simple enough for you? :D

And the fact gauntlet doesn't have draft.

Vorpal
07-14-2015, 09:34 AM
I don't like the set 2 packs being useless so soon after release.

As far as I am concerned, people can bring whatever packs they want to a draft. I feel like there were more viable deck archetypes in set 1 draft than there will be in set 2 draft (and than there were in 221 draft). All 222 draft was funny for about a week since there was basically no removal and really bizarre stuff could pull through as your win condition.

People might say "Oh, well, if you could bring whatever packs you want to a draft then people will just bring the cheapest pack". This is obviously self correcting.

Just having one 'bring whatever packs you want' draft format is better than trying to cover all the possibilities and permutations available.

Barkam
07-14-2015, 09:47 AM
It has been mentioned, but I'll say it again. This wont be a problem if the players/guilds can run their own limited tournaments in game (supported by the client) with the packs they have. These tournaments wont have prizes from Hex Entertainment.

Svenn
07-14-2015, 10:05 AM
I don't like the set 2 packs being useless so soon after release.

They aren't useless.

Also, it's been 7 months. That's not that soon...

magic1313
07-14-2015, 10:37 AM
I still have a ton of set 1 and set 2 packs but I think eventually there value will sky rocket. When the ability to get AoD, Vamp King, Reese etc., becomes limited to the AH and the supply of Set 1 and 2 packs starts to dwindle the demand will be far greater than the supply. Are MTG Alpha and Beta packs worthless?

Tazelbain
07-14-2015, 11:20 AM
Without the Power Nine, Hex's first two sets aren't going to appreciate like Magic's.

magic1313
07-14-2015, 11:56 AM
Without the Power Nine, Hex's first two sets aren't going to appreciate like Magic's.

Maybe not as much but I don't think the prices will crash either

Vorpal
07-14-2015, 12:15 PM
The price of set 1 went up as set 2 was released...but it was still being consumed in limited and no longer produced via VIP.

I don't know that the price of set 1 and 2 packs will go up after set 3's release as there will be no real demand for them. Perhaps certain rares will still be desirable for constructed and will help hold the value up.

Sparrow
07-14-2015, 12:23 PM
I still have a ton of set 1 and set 2 packs but I think eventually there value will sky rocket. When the ability to get AoD, Vamp King, Reese etc., becomes limited to the AH and the supply of Set 1 and 2 packs starts to dwindle the demand will be far greater than the supply. Are MTG Alpha and Beta packs worthless?
Does Hex have a reprint policy for individual cards in future sets? I know with Magic there used to be a reserve list (or some name like that). Any card on the list was supposed to never show up in a future set. At some point, Hex will need to re-use cards -- unless their plan is to have a bunch of cards that are identical in every way except for the name.

Yoss
07-14-2015, 01:33 PM
The MTG reserve list was one of the worst decisions/systems ever made, at least according to people who actually want to play the game rather than collect/speculate on value.

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 01:43 PM
Some of them. Most of the ones that want to just play the game just run proxies for ridiculous cards. And the collectors have done a great deal for magic.

Thoom
07-14-2015, 01:44 PM
We, however, do not have the option for proxies.

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 01:54 PM
We also didn't get power 9 equivalents in set 1. So it won't ever be as bad.

But I do think people should have some way to proxy in some cards eventually. Even if it's just a solo test mode.

Vorpal
07-14-2015, 02:04 PM
I thought guild banks would be the eventual solution for that.

Sparrow
07-14-2015, 02:06 PM
The MTG reserve list was one of the worst decisions/systems ever made, at least according to people who actually want to play the game rather than collect/speculate on value.
Most of the people I've known that play Magic have spent a lot of money on the game and want their collections to have value. The F2P aspect of this game clouds that issue here, I think, but it's still an important aspect. It's also a question that should be answered if it hasn't been already -- everybody should be able to make informed decisions and not be blindsided down the road.

Tazelbain
07-14-2015, 02:18 PM
Most of the people I've known that play Magic have spent a lot of money on the game and want their collections to have value. The F2P aspect of this game clouds that issue here, I think, but it's still an important aspect. It's also a question that should be answered if it hasn't been already -- everybody should be able to make informed decisions and not be blindsided down the road.How does F2P cloud value? The frost arena (the primal vehicle of F2P) has been a success at raising the value of our collections especially for commons and uncommons. Just look at pre-March 10th electroid versus post. Sure its not huge amount, but it pretty unambiguous that collections are worth more now.

Sparrow
07-14-2015, 03:13 PM
How does F2P cloud value? The frost arena (the primal vehicle of F2P) has been a success at raising the value of our collections especially for commons and uncommons. Just look at pre-March 10th electroid versus post. Sure its not huge amount, but it pretty unambiguous that collections are worth more now.
I didn't say they weren't. The issue that's being clouded isn't value, but whether people want a CCG or a TCG. There will be a lot of unhappy people, for example, if when set 7 rolls around it contains reprints of chase cards from set 1. OTOH, I don't doubt there will be happy people as well. CCG vs TCG.