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YourOpponent
07-12-2015, 09:33 AM
What are your guys opinions about if Hex had something such as a "Deck Rental Service" that was available in game where the money from it went to Hex A friend of mine that plays MtG was telling me about it and it functions pretty much like Netflix, but with cards instead and a higher cost to rent the cards/deck depending on how long you want to use it and how expensive the cards are.

I suppose it could also work where the cards are rented from person A so that person A can't use the cards during that time meanwhile person B can during that time. While giving some of the money for renting it to person A and Hex getting a cut of the money though, but that sounds like a huge headache to code and I'm just trying to think of ways to help Hex get more money.

Also I might be trying to think of ways I could rent some Collector AA's for big competitive tournaments :P

nicetodd
07-12-2015, 09:38 AM
Seems like a very high admin low profit process, but no reason not to try individually. Don't think crypto would benefit much directly as they have a pretty solid model. Pack sales. Tourney entries.

Grimshaw
07-12-2015, 09:40 AM
They have definitely discussed something similar as a possible part of the Guilds function, where you could take out a specific deck from the Guild vault to test with. Those cards would only be available to one person at a time.

This would be a dream feature for those playing the game on tight budgets. I do think it's an interesting idea, but I can't see it being a priority right now.

YourOpponent
07-12-2015, 10:19 AM
They have definitely discussed something similar as a possible part of the Guilds function, where you could take out a specific deck from the Guild vault to test with. Those cards would only be available to one person at a time.

This would be a dream feature for those playing the game on tight budgets. I do think it's an interesting idea, but I can't see it being a priority right now.

I do remember them talking about allowing you to borrow cards from the guild vault for things that aren't competitive.

nicosharp
07-12-2015, 11:29 AM
I think they need to be very careful about ways to gain collections temporarily. It defeats a lot of the purpose of a "TCG", from a value standpoint, and creates a lopsided F2P userbase... Almost like a 3rd Currency.

Diesbudt
07-12-2015, 01:12 PM
I think they need to be very careful about ways to gain collections temporarily. It defeats a lot of the purpose of a "TCG", from a value standpoint, and creates a lopsided F2P userbase... Almost like a 3rd Currency.

This.

Could I see this being allowed in like guilds (for maybe a small charge of gold/plat) for PVE Use? That would be a great idea!

However, for any PvP or "proving grounds play" (Player run tournaments) this effectively defeats the entire purpose of the first letter in TCG.

Yoss
07-12-2015, 04:28 PM
We had a discussion back in 2013 about allowing rental of goods. Mostly it just seems too complicated to be worth it, at least until far down the road when they've got the game more fully featured. There are a ton of other features to get in that would take higher priority.

Stok3d
07-12-2015, 09:09 PM
Great idea at initial reading. However, when you consider the ramifications you may actually think differently.

To many, this would actually remove the need to own one's own cards. Why own assemble a collection when you could simply rent any deck you want for say 5000g/week? The AH activity volume would decrease and with lower demand comes lower value of cards. I don't believe this is a good thing what-so-ever.

As for officially lending completely unrestricted PVP decks from guild banks, this is also something I do not support for the same reasons above. Essentially, all someone would need to do is join a large guild and you never have to own a single card.

(Note that I say this when I am one with many many psets of both set 1 & 2 and I reside in the largest guild in members... Even though I could stand to benefit a great deal, it's a very bad thing for Hex.)

WWKnight
07-12-2015, 09:49 PM
I knwo Infinity Wars does free decks every week for use in non-ranked games. To help newer players get a feel for the different strategies.

Id like to see that here.

Gwaer
07-12-2015, 09:59 PM
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44254&p=503577&viewfull=1#post503577

ShadowIronblood
07-13-2015, 01:54 PM
This.

Could I see this being allowed in like guilds (for maybe a small charge of gold/plat) for PVE Use? That would be a great idea!

However, for any PvP or "proving grounds play" (Player run tournaments) this effectively defeats the entire purpose of the first letter in TCG.

how is the guild vault deck sharing system any different than one of our buddies making a bad ass decks and giving us it to use at a event? as long as the deck is limited to one person i dont see to much of a problem. Its pretty much like trading the other person every card they need to make the deck but this way the original owner still owns those cards just is now currently not using them nor can they use them while the deck is out of the vault. But seeing how this feature will more then likely be tied to guilds (which could require us to pay to make one and maybe even buy this said feature) its pretty early to rule anything out.

Gwaer
07-13-2015, 01:57 PM
I mean, it's really quite a bit different isn't it? Your friend doesn't have to worry about you losing cards, or damaging them. He can guarantee he gets his cards back so there is 0 risk, so really everyone might as well be everyone elses friend and lend cards/decks as needed. So instead of being an occurrence that happens between real actual friends, it just entirely lowers demand.

not that I'm against it, I'm just trying to answer your question.

Tinfoil
07-13-2015, 02:43 PM
It's a great idea and it is already possible, you can just do it, setting your own terms. Renting things out is profitable IRL and it could be in Hex as well. You can still only rent a card to 1 person at the time.

Granting more people better access to the game is a good thing - especially as more and more sets are released. Being a new player that enjoys competetive play becomes harder - maybe so hard they will stop before even trying. A lot of TCG content is hidden behind steep pay walls - why not lower the walls a bit?

How should it be done and how much support should there be in the client? These are practicalities and can be worked out (and it will be importeat to work them out well).

When will it not be a good idea? There a probably some circumstances where it will be bad, like in the case of a small and non-growing playerbase, but that would also be bad for other reasons.

Turtlewing
07-13-2015, 02:50 PM
Isn't this what the guild bank is supposed to be?

You take cards in your collection and mark them as "in the bank" you retain ownership of the card but anyone in your guild can check out the card and use it in their deck. While checked out it's essentially a card in their collection much like if it had been mailed to them, but they don't actually own it so if they try to leave the guild or something the card goes back to it's rightful owner.

Presumably there would need to be a system for "calling in" cards that you put in the bank. And there may be an argument to prohibit bank cards from official tournaments other than the sparing queue. But for proving grounds/PvE/future guild driven private tournaments/community driven tournaments i think it should be fair game.

Gwaer
07-13-2015, 02:54 PM
Pretty sure the guild bank system was for full decks not cards, and they couldn't be edited, and you could only use the decks in limited places? I'm a bit fuzzy on the details it has been a long time since we've talked about it.

Turtlewing
07-14-2015, 11:29 AM
Pretty sure the guild bank system was for full decks not cards, and they couldn't be edited, and you could only use the decks in limited places? I'm a bit fuzzy on the details it has been a long time since we've talked about it.

That sounds sufficiently pointless to be unlikely.

As i recall the article where the discussed the motivation behind it was a description of a group of friends all putting their cards into a shared pool form which any of them could build decks.

Svenn
07-14-2015, 11:33 AM
That sounds sufficiently pointless to be unlikely.

As i recall the article where the discussed the motivation behind it was a description of a group of friends all putting their cards into a shared pool form which any of them could build decks.
No, Gwaer is right. You can check a deck in, not individual cards. Someone can check the deck out but can't modify it or use it in tournaments. That was the description we got a while back. I can't remember where that was, but that's what I remember.

There might be a guild bank like in your standard MMO where you can put your cards in and others can just take them instead of checking them out.

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 12:18 PM
Pretty sure the point at that time was for deck testing and tweaking, so your guild mates can check out your decks you're brewing and offer feedback on them, ways to improve them, what they're weak against, etc.

Turtlewing
07-14-2015, 02:04 PM
No, Gwaer is right. You can check a deck in, not individual cards. Someone can check the deck out but can't modify it or use it in tournaments. That was the description we got a while back. I can't remember where that was, but that's what I remember.

There might be a guild bank like in your standard MMO where you can put your cards in and others can just take them instead of checking them out.

Well I heard something a lot less stupid IMO. From the descriptions.

i mean:

Now that I致e painted that picture, I値l get back to what really got my attention at the presentation for HEX that Cryptozoic was kind enough to invite me to. Because Hex mixes everything players love about TCGs and MMOs, it痴 only natural that there will be Guilds. I値l be completely honest and say that I知 not a big MMO player, but I quickly recognized what they were building the Guilds to be. Guilds are going to work exactly like my current play group does. We値l be able to create a guild and share a pool of cards and deck in our Guild Bank just like we do now in real life!

We値l each buy or earn our fair share of boosters to get our drafts on like usual, playing together and even getting to compete with other players from around the world. The cards we collect after these drafts will be pooled together to let us build decks just like we always do. The Guild Banks will have our regular gauntlet of test decks and new brews of secret decks, without having to worry about scrambling to get all the cards. As members, we値l be able to check these decks out even if we don稚 have the cards in our personal collections to play against other Guild members.

http://www.hextcg.com/the-guild-experience/

Sounds to me like it would be most reasonably implement by a shared card pool. And shared deck lists. You chekc cards in and you save deck lists, then others can access the deck lists and if they lack cards that are in the bank they can check those cards out to complete the decklist.


Pretty sure the point at that time was for deck testing and tweaking, so your guild mates can check out your decks you're brewing and offer feedback on them, ways to improve them, what they're weak against, etc.

Like I said, that seems poorly thought out.

For example, if you put a deck up and I think it'll work better with a couple changes why should I have to put up the whole modified deck when you already put most of it in the bank? Why can't I check in the cards that differ and upload the list then anyone in the guild could check out my list and it'd compile that deck from the cards you and I put in the bank?

Further what if I don't own the cards I want to use to modify your deck but anotehr guild member has already checked them in as part of a different deck?

Ideally, checking out a decklist from the guild bank should build the deck from cards I own, and check cards out of the bank to fill in the gaps. That way the guild's veterans aren't needlessly locking up copies of cards they have in their personal collection when they check out a deck, and there's an incentive to check in multiple copies of staple commons/uncommons or even whole decks to make them available for the guild's noobs to play or experiment with.

Gwaer
07-14-2015, 03:57 PM
It may not end up being like it was originally pitched, but I very much doubt that it will be what you're expecting as well. We'll just have to wait and see and offer suggestions, maybe something will inspire an excellent middle ground, or new direction entirely.

Svenn
07-14-2015, 05:30 PM
Well I heard something a lot less stupid IMO. From the descriptions.

i mean:


http://www.hextcg.com/the-guild-experience/

Sounds to me like it would be most reasonably implement by a shared card pool. And shared deck lists. You chekc cards in and you save deck lists, then others can access the deck lists and if they lack cards that are in the bank they can check those cards out to complete the decklist.

That article is written by a random guy who got to visit the office over 2 years ago... not from someone at HexEnt.