PDA

View Full Version : Kinda disapointed so far with opening my chest



wasichu
07-22-2015, 08:16 AM
For the gold cost to spend on lets take blue rare chest and opening them to get what seems to be same equipment that was in opening my common chest. I guess I was hoping rare chest would spawn more alt arts and some pve cards.

My only primal chest was the coolest one I have opened. Seems like gold would be better spent on buying the AA commons and extended arts

dogmod
07-22-2015, 08:43 AM
Given the fact we spend most of our time opening common chests it is disappointing that they have limited wow factor. I would have preferred a tiered approach with the sleeves at least with a common, rare and primal sleeve available in common/uncommon, rare/lej, and primal respectively. I have found opening uncommon and common chests to be a boring chore and even when I pull an AA from a common chest my excitement is pretty limited.

Alamand
07-22-2015, 08:45 AM
common, uncommon and rares all seem to be basically the same loot table, though I've actually gotten the best stuff from my common chests by a fairly significant margin thanks to the AAs.

Though I'm not a big fan of the chests in general, I dislike so much PvE content being locked away in what's essentially PvP content, though that's a different conversation and something that could change if they added chests or other ways to get the equipment in future PvE.

magic_gazz
07-22-2015, 08:55 AM
common, uncommon and rares all seem to be basically the same loot table, though I've actually gotten the best stuff from my common chests by a fairly significant margin thanks to the AAs.

Though I'm not a big fan of the chests in general, I dislike so much PvE content being locked away in what's essentially PvP content, though that's a different conversation and something that could change if they added chests or other ways to get the equipment in future PvE.

There are ways to get those things, buy them with gold.

Veetor
07-22-2015, 08:57 AM
I mean if you don't enjoy the chests, you can always send them all to me, I'll happily open them, you know all that free extra stuff you get.

dogmod
07-22-2015, 09:23 AM
I mean if you don't enjoy the chests, you can always send them all to me, I'll happily open them, you know all that free extra stuff you get.

That toy you get with your happy meal isn't actually free.

Jormungandr
07-22-2015, 09:26 AM
That toy you get with your happy meal isn't actually free.

True. But if you're happy enough paying the listed price for just the food, the toy can be considered a free bonus.

Turboflex
07-22-2015, 09:36 AM
Rare chests have to be the most disappointing considering it costs 8,000 gold or so to roll them (50% of the cost of a pack) and you're very likely to just get a piece of equipment you could get out of a common chest.

Veetor
07-22-2015, 09:38 AM
Pretty sure you can open them without rolling them, no? (save the gold if you like)

Vorpal
07-22-2015, 09:40 AM
Common, Uncommon, and Rare chests all operate on the same loot table, just weighted differently. It is entirely possible to pull a rare equipment from a common chest or to pull a common equipment from your 'rare' chest as its only item.

I do have to say the 'wow' factor of opening up a rare chest and getting a common equipment from it is not really that great. If it was a common piece of equipment you couldn't get anywhere else that would be one thing, but it's literally the same stuff I've been opening already in my common chests.

The exception seems to be pve cards and mercs, which do not seem to show up in common chests at all (or else have a tiny drop rate)

Lawlschool
07-22-2015, 09:41 AM
I'll say for sure the Rare chests are a bit of a disappointment, since I seem to get Rare equips at only a slightly higher rate than Uncommon ones. Would be nice if Rare chests had a noticably higher drop rate for the star dusts to compensate for what I assume are a limited number of Rare equips (hence all the extra Uncommons).

Also, keep in mind that rolling the WoF is a gamble. Most of the time you're wasting gold, but occasionally you'll get lucky.

All in all though, the chests are a pretty awesome bonus, no need to look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak.

BlackRoger
07-22-2015, 09:45 AM
I kinda agree with alamand.
Would be better if chests were the source of pvp equipment, and stuff like arena provided only pve loot.
Its weird to require so much AH work from f2p players from the get go.
Would also mean that arena loot will always be relevant to new players, unlike now, since in a few years set 1 equipment will be worthless (lots of set 1 equip being grinded vs no set 1 cards being opened)

RamzaBehoulve
07-22-2015, 09:46 AM
Rare chest is useless to spin at the moment. Just open or sell it.

BlackRoger
07-22-2015, 09:54 AM
Rare chest is useless to spin at the moment. Just open or sell it.

Well, technically, rare chest can still be upgraded to legendary or primal, so there is plenty of value in spinning them.

Mahes
07-22-2015, 09:55 AM
Rare chest is useless to spin at the moment. Just open or sell it.

If it doubles up too a Primal it can be nice. For the most part though, you are correct in that it does seem to be the worst of the chests for value.

Poetic
07-22-2015, 09:55 AM
Why? I rolled a rare last night for set 3 and it turned into a primal.

Xenavire
07-22-2015, 10:00 AM
Uncommon is actually the least valuable chest. Rare and Legendary are quite valuable due to primal chances. I would still try to roll everything, or sell the rolled ones.

knightofeffect
07-22-2015, 10:02 AM
Rare chests are indeed the worst to open. Some refactoring on the loot tables is definitely needed. In opening ~200 commons, ~100 uncommon, and ~50 rare, there wasn't a dramatic difference in the value of a rare chest verses a common. As a matter of fact, in opening up the rares last, I didn't get a single thing from a set 2 rare chest that I didn't already have multiples of from common chests.

That is a real problem.

Thand
07-22-2015, 10:03 AM
Rare chest is useless to spin at the moment. Just open or sell it.
I'm failing to understand why people are saying rares are useless to spin. If the rare contents are so bad, wouldn't you WANT them to be upgraded? Even if legendaries had the exact same loot table (and prize percentages) of a rare, the fact that it drops two items is enough to make it worth chancing the upgrade.

Vorpal
07-22-2015, 10:04 AM
It depends on what you are trying to do.

I wouldn't go buy rare chests on the AH, seeing as how the loot pool is largely the same as common
If you are trying to get better stuff OUT of chests, rolling commons is the pointless bit, as the best they can be is rare, which is essentially the same chest just with the loot percentages tweaked. Rolling uncommons and rares can get you legendaries and primals, which DO have unique loot
If you are just trying to hoover up all the WOF rewards economically, then rolling commons is the best bet.

knightofeffect
07-22-2015, 10:04 AM
I'm failing to understand why people are saying rares are useless to spin. If the rare contents are so bad, wouldn't you WANT them to be upgraded? Even if legendaries had the exact same loot table (and prize percentages) of a rare, the fact that it drops two items is enough to make it worth chancing the upgrade.

Exactly, I would say they have the highest relative value to spin as their content value is arguably the lowest

Erebus
07-22-2015, 10:04 AM
The point of spinning rare chest is the chance to get the double upgrade. Even a single upgrade doubles the number of items in the chest. The issue people are having is opening the rare chests which give 1 item, typically an equipment. However, people are able to open many more common chests then rare chests and are getting a skewed perspective.

From some guild based testing we're seeing equipment C/UC/R drop from common chests at a ~65%/15%/5% rate, uncommon chests at a 20/55/10 rate, and rare chests at a 5/20/55 rate. With the remaining percentages to non-equipment drops. Obviously the common chest numbers are more accurate due to a larger sample size. However, if you open 500 common chests you'll probably get most if not all the rare equipment anyways. On the other side, we've had no mercenaries drop at common and uncommon levels, and no pve cards at the common level.

So it's about your priorities, if you don't care about mercs or pve cards, you're best off trading away your spun rare chests.

knightofeffect
07-22-2015, 10:24 AM
Thanks for the info Erebus!

Personally, I feel like the following loot tables changes are practical:

AA rares should be removed from the common and uncommon tables
All common-rare equipment and PvE cards available to common and uncommon chests with the percentages you outlined
All common and uncommon equipment and PvE cards removed from rare chest loot tables
Rare loot table consist of rare-legendary stardust, rare equipment and PvE cards, AA rares, and a couple of the less rare sleeves.



I think that would go a long way towards having a more rewarding distribution of chest loot. Currently getting a common equipment from a rare chest feels like getting an uncommon in HS from a chest after a 12 win run.

Thand
07-22-2015, 10:35 AM
So it seems that what is happening is most people on the forums have so many common chests that they don't need rare chests to get all the rare equipment. What a horrible problem to have! :rolleyes:

I think that the overlapping equipment loot tables is a bad idea. The rarity of the chest when generated is already random, plus spinning them adds a second layer of randomness to the rarity. We don't need a third layer of randomness in reward rarity. Can you imagine if booster packs didn't have a guaranteed rare? That's what this feels like.

RamzaBehoulve
07-22-2015, 10:37 AM
I'm failing to understand why people are saying rares are useless to spin. If the rare contents are so bad, wouldn't you WANT them to be upgraded? Even if legendaries had the exact same loot table (and prize percentages) of a rare, the fact that it drops two items is enough to make it worth chancing the upgrade.

Because statistics.

nicosharp
07-22-2015, 10:38 AM
They made primal chests pack amazing value. The % of greatness on everything below is truly dismal.

We should just send all of our unrolled Legendary Chests to Colin for prosperity.

DanTheMeek
07-22-2015, 10:58 AM
So maybe I'm just getting bad luck, but the legendary equips I've opened from high rarity chests and then tried to flip on the AH were going for 1 cent (plat) or 3 gold. I repeat, 3 gold, staring at one of them I'd like to flip (I have two of it) right now in painful disbelief. So it costed me 30,000 gold PER spin on that legendary chest to get it to primal, yet the legendary equips I got out of them seem to have 1/10,000th the value of even one of the likely many spins it took me to get them (I spun these months ago)?

I'm happy for extra value via chests, but I have to seriously question if chest spinning has been priced appropriately for the rewards therein after common. Maybe I've just gotten bad legendary equips, or the market will eventually settle down and these equips will have some value, but right now whether a chest gives me 1 thing, 2 things, or 3, the value of said things doesn't seem to be coming even close to compensating the cost of spinning the chests themselves, only spinning commons seems to make sense do to the potential rewards you can get from the wheel itself, other wise it seems like it makes much more sense to just buy the equips you want off the AH and use all that extra gold to buy packs or stardust or whatever interests you.

nicosharp
07-22-2015, 11:09 AM
I wouldn't worry much about anything set1 and set2 being priced low dan. Remember there is a huge % of the active playerbase that has a flood of this stuff they all opened yesterday. Prices will stabilize and value will start to be determined by set3 chests/equipment.

Equipment has rarely been super chasey. Chest roll equipment seems more rare than anything you could open in a chest (to some degree). There will be more value in obtaining both mercenaries and higher-end AA's for resale from these chests than any equipment piece can provide - Oh, and we can not forget the PvE cards!. The sleeves are what make the unopened chests (specifically primal chests) worth everything you spend to roll a legendary.

Once people start breaking PvE - and globally sharing those breaks - some equipment will become valuable and chase - there is just too much now to make every piece worth the playerbases time of day.

Xenavire
07-22-2015, 11:24 AM
So maybe I'm just getting bad luck, but the legendary equips I've opened from high rarity chests and then tried to flip on the AH were going for 1 cent (plat) or 3 gold. I repeat, 3 gold, staring at one of them I'd like to flip (I have two of it) right now in painful disbelief. So it costed me 30,000 gold PER spin on that legendary chest to get it to primal, yet the legendary equips I got out of them seem to have 1/10,000th the value of even one of the likely many spins it took me to get them (I spun these months ago)?

I'm happy for extra value via chests, but I have to seriously question if chest spinning has been priced appropriately for the rewards therein after common. Maybe I've just gotten bad legendary equips, or the market will eventually settle down and these equips will have some value, but right now whether a chest gives me 1 thing, 2 things, or 3, the value of said things doesn't seem to be coming even close to compensating the cost of spinning the chests themselves, only spinning commons seems to make sense do to the potential rewards you can get from the wheel itself, other wise it seems like it makes much more sense to just buy the equips you want off the AH and use all that extra gold to buy packs or stardust or whatever interests you.

I gotta say, Dan, I just checked the AH, and the lowest price for any chest Legendary equip is 25 plat, and several thousand gold. Still a little on the low side, but far from the figures you just listed.

The arena equips do go that low though, so maybe you just checked the wrong thing?

Vorpal
07-22-2015, 12:32 PM
So it seems that what is happening is most people on the forums have so many common chests that they don't need rare chests to get all the rare equipment. What a horrible problem to have! :rolleyes:

I think that the overlapping equipment loot tables is a bad idea. The rarity of the chest when generated is already random, plus spinning them adds a second layer of randomness to the rarity. We don't need a third layer of randomness in reward rarity. Can you imagine if booster packs didn't have a guaranteed rare? That's what this feels like.

Currently our chests are like the original engram implementation in destiny. RNG once to get the chest quality, then you open it, then RNG again to see if it actually gives you loot of that quality or not.

This implementation destiny was so bad and so roundly reviled and despised by the playerbase that it was changed long ago.

DanTheMeek
07-22-2015, 12:44 PM
I gotta say, Dan, I just checked the AH, and the lowest price for any chest Legendary equip is 25 plat, and several thousand gold. Still a little on the low side, but far from the figures you just listed.

The arena equips do go that low though, so maybe you just checked the wrong thing?

I suppose its possible, was just going through my legendary equips and AHing the extras so I assumed the extras were all from chests but might have been some arena ones from my arena grinding at +50% gold just prior to the patch, though I could have sworn I just pulled those from chests. Also possible I just checked at an unfortunate time when some one had posted a bunch of stuff up real cheap and it has since all been bought up to re-stablize the price? Either way, glad to hear that my experience sounds like its probably an exception.

dogmod
07-22-2015, 12:46 PM
Currently our chests are like the original engram implementation in destiny. RNG once to get the chest quality, then you open it, then RNG again to see if it actually gives you loot of that quality or not.

This implementation destiny was so bad and so roundly reviled and despised by the playerbase that it was changed long ago.

So much this

IronPheasant
07-22-2015, 12:53 PM
Kinda thought this would have been the kind of thing to really beta test for community feedback before launching. I dunno..


the value of said things doesn't seem to be coming even close to compensating the cost of spinning the chests themselves, only spinning commons seems to make sense do to the potential rewards you can get from the wheel itself

Yeah...

It's... obvious you're better off just spending the gold on buying boosters directly. A good implementation of this feature would have been rarity-specific cards, but that costs money to generate they apparently don't have the luxury to spend.

(Quite frankly I'd remove the entirety of the current equipment system if it meant the budget for a scarce 5 more cards added to the game..)

On the upside, the guys who wanted platinum to have a better ratio versus gold should be tickled pink.


some equipment will become valuable and chase

No equipment will come as close to the value of Tinkerer's Robes in the early days before the frost mines were tapped out and everyone had one.

That's because equipment does absolutely nothing on its own.* And there's no endless escalator of ascending power. The ceiling is reached very quickly, and with some cards.... does adding a couple sparklers onto the sides of a nuclear bomb really make it that much more fearsome?

Your Royal Falconer's have "target opponent must wire $5 to your bank account."


* Imagine how awful Diablo would have been if a sword dropped, but you can't equip it. And it's not just that sword, but everything flying out of the loot pinatas.

ziggarius
07-22-2015, 01:00 PM
* Imagine how awful Diablo would have been if a sword dropped, but you can't equip it. And it's not just that sword, but everything flying out of the loot pinatas.

For the longest time diablo 3 had that. Farm with my barbarian, get amazing sword.... With intelligence on it. Shame i don't have an int based alt i care about.

nicosharp
07-22-2015, 01:01 PM
Kinda thought this would have been the kind of thing to really beta test for community feedback before launching. I dunno..



Yeah...

It's... obvious you're better off just spending the gold on buying boosters directly. A good implementation of this feature would have been rarity-specific cards, but that costs money to generate they apparently don't have the luxury to spend.

(Quite frankly I'd remove the entirety of the current equipment system if it meant the budget for a scarce 5 more cards added to the game..)

On the upside, the guys who wanted platinum to have a better ratio versus gold should be tickled pink.



No equipment will come as close to the value of Tinkerer's Robes in the early days before the frost mines were tapped out and everyone had one.

That's because equipment does absolutely nothing on its own.* And there's no endless escalator of ascending power. The ceiling is reached very quickly, and with some cards.... does adding a couple sparklers onto the sides of a nuclear bomb really make it that much more fearsome?

Your Royal Falconer's have "target opponent must wire $5 to your bank account."


* Imagine how awful Diablo would have been if a sword dropped, but you can't equip it. And it's not just that sword, but everything flying out of the loot pinatas.
I wouldn't go that far. There is some scarcity involved, but it's true that obtaining 4x of a card, that has a legendary piece of equipment associated with it, will likely cost you more for the 4 copies of the card than the 1 piece of equipment.

Also, making something that is "meta-defining" for PvE, or specific to beating later dungeon/raid content at optimal speed could fetch higher prices. To your point though - PvE should be something achieved by many, coming from various angles and deck builds, and no one piece of equipment is necessary for PvE completionists.

TOOT
07-22-2015, 01:01 PM
The equipment should be cheap and easy to get for PVE/F2P players. With them appearing so frequently, it gives the PVE cards and AA PVP cards some value as being more scarce in these chests.

Rolling/upgrading chests is a huge expense which makes it worth it with the Primal chests containing items that will hold their value because it costs more than 30,000+ gold on average to possibly obtain one in the first place.

Chests don't have to be opened or rolled at all if you don't think it's worth it.

I think the whole system is fine.

plaguedealer
07-22-2015, 01:11 PM
I held my nose and bought some pve cards in the ah. Angel of forseight seems pretty strong. Soul devour, the blue legendary flier and the meteor card seem like niche cards, but may be very strong in a certain format. The other pve cards (even set 3 ones) seem to be on the weaker side.

It is real difficult to look at a pve card/equipment and say this is great when pve has not been fleshed out yet.

On a side note, I am fine with chest pve cards being hard to find. I think we need a better management system when it comes to equipment however.

nicosharp
07-22-2015, 01:15 PM
I held my nose and bought some pve cards in the ah. Angel of forseight seems pretty strong. Soul Devour, the blue legendary flier and the meteor card seem like niche cards, but may be very strong in a certain format. The other pve cards (even set 3 ones) seem to be on the weaker side.

It is real difficult to look at a pve card/equipment and say this is great when pve has not been fleshed out yet.

On a side note, I am fine with chest pve card being hard to find. I think we need a better management system when it comes to equipment however.
I was able to make a huge snap judgement call that paid off for PvE based on chest loots.. At least from a grinding and deck viability stand-point last night. It's not ready for prime-time yet, but it is amazing.

plaguedealer
07-22-2015, 01:18 PM
I was able to make a huge snap judgement call that paid off for PvE based on chest loots.. At least from a grinding and deck viability stand-point last night. It's not ready for prime-time yet, but it is amazing.

Dont be afraid to share at a later date :)

nicosharp
07-22-2015, 01:19 PM
Dont be afraid to share at a later date :)
Sure - let me corner market first :)

IronPheasant
07-22-2015, 01:31 PM
Tried to upload a screenshot of the Flame Cut Cuirass since I found it lulzy, but imgur is being frustratingly naughty.

It grants: Your Vanguards of Gawaine have, "Vanguard of Cerulea you control have Swiftstrike."

At least the two cards in question are commons.


For the longest time diablo 3 had that. Farm with my barbarian, get amazing sword.... With intelligence on it. Shame i don't have an int based alt i care about.

Hey you can equip it, it's just suboptimal like 99.9999999% of the things that drop. It's not the sword's fault no one on the dev team designed a system where some or all barbarians care about Int.

Lafoote
07-22-2015, 03:06 PM
Seems like PVE card drops are vastly inadequate.

thegreybetween
07-22-2015, 03:25 PM
I wouldn't go that far. There is some scarcity involved, but it's true that obtaining 4x of a card, that has a legendary piece of equipment associated with it, will likely cost you more for the 4 copies of the card than the 1 piece of equipment.

Also, making something that is "meta-defining" for PvE, or specific to beating later dungeon/raid content at optimal speed could fetch higher prices. To your point though - PvE should be something achieved by many, coming from various angles and deck builds, and no one piece of equipment is necessary for PvE completionists.

The problem here relates to that "escalator of ascending power" that IronPheasant was talking about. Chase equipment is chase specifically because everyone wants one. Everyone wants one because it is an important lynchpin in a key PvE deck.

But the nature of PvE is such that, if such a lynchpin piece of equipment arises, it is likely to get nerfed. Everyone runs Tinkers Robes? Nerf. Everyone runs Xocoy? Nerf.

The moment a piece of PvE gear becomes "meta-defining", the card is redefined and the meta marches on.

So even if you do manage to keep supply down on a chase piece of gear or PvE card, it will never retain a great deal of value in an environment where the utility of it is subject to change. The primary reason that the team refuses to modify existing PvP cards is exactly that - to protect value by making sure that the card always works the way it is supposed to. PvE is under no such constraint, and even in our minimal exposure to PvE content, we've already seen a few direct changes to popular (and thus most chase) PvE assets.

Note: I'm not saying this is a bad thing for the game. Quite the contrary. The nerfed items contributed to degenerate runs that trivialized the content, and while occasionally fun to exploit, did nothing but hasten the decline of the Arena as "fun" content as it was rapidly and repetitively strip-mined. The nerfs were good. But they set a precedent that will be catastrophic for PvE asset values - Is it worth spending resources to acquire an item that, due to its popularity, may very well be nerfed? When those resources equate to hard cash, the answer will likely trend toward "no".

Zophie
07-22-2015, 03:47 PM
The problem here relates to that "escalator of ascending power" that IronPheasant was talking about.

Just grab all the equipment you can and with some luck you'll get to the top, one way or another...

http://i.imgur.com/in0KBjC.gif

Mejis
07-22-2015, 03:51 PM
Seems like PVE card drops are vastly inadequate.

This might be the case. I've only had one pve card drop and that was from a primal chest. I've opened a lot of common and uncommon chests and 99% seem equipment. Don't get me wrong, the equipment is amazing and I love all the new variety it brings, but I would like to see some more pve cards from chests. Are they mainly aimed to 've garnered from spins instead?

thegreybetween
07-22-2015, 04:04 PM
I think that the logic behind chest PvE cards is that they want them to be rare. PvP players will have most of the chests, and not much gold. PvE players will want the chest loot, and have gold. So if PvE cards are exceedingly rare, they should, in theory, regularly fetch a decent Gold price so that both parties benefit. That assumes that the PvE cards are worthwhile and not subject to frequent changes, as noted above. But rare PvE card drops from chests makes sense in that regard.

Put another way: F2P players won't have many chests, so PvE card rarity in chests can be high without it being considered a "paywall".

I think the bulk of the accessible, farmable PvE cards will come with the next big patch, when "Book 1" of PvE really starts to take shape. If PvE card drops remain so scarce even then, then I imagine that there will be some heavy backlash from F2P players who cannot progress without insane RNG luck.

As for spins, there are only 3 PvE cards per set you can get from the Wheels, so I don't think they'll have much of an impact either.

hammer
07-22-2015, 04:24 PM
I am having fun with chests just completed the Mercenaries :D
http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/eternal_H/New%20Mercenaries.jpg (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/eternal_H/media/New%20Mercenaries.jpg.html)

thegreybetween
07-22-2015, 04:27 PM
Dingler merc?! Awesome!

Is that from Set 2 ("Donglesnoot", like the sleeve)? I need to track one of those down.

Erebus
07-22-2015, 04:50 PM
The Dingler King if I'm not mistaken

IronPheasant
07-22-2015, 06:10 PM
Just grab all the equipment you can and with some luck you'll get to the top, one way or another...

But you're already at the top right now.

Similar foreboding at how PvE will be implemented. If it's not an isolated, fresh card pool when you create a new champion, there will be scarce progression for players already invested.

Zophie
07-22-2015, 06:36 PM
But you're already at the top right now.

Similar foreboding at how PvE will be implemented. If it's not an isolated, fresh card pool when you create a new champion, there will be scarce progression for players already invested.

I dunno about that, the top of what? Frost Ring Arena? We still have a whole PVE campaign coming with quests, dungeons, raids, etc, and we don't really have the big picture of how the "progression" will play out in that campaign, and ones in the future. Champion levels, more PVE cards, more equipment, there will be lots of room for progression with these things. Not to mention the areas where equipment won't even be relevant, like on puzzles and other unique encounters we'll likely come across. I'm not worried about already being at the pinnacle of progression. We'll definitely have a leg up on newbies, but there will be plenty of room for all of us to get the enjoyment of progression with PVE.

bootlace
07-22-2015, 07:08 PM
I've always said that for equipment to have lasting value you're going to have to do 2 things:

1) Control supply somehow so that it doesnt swarm demand (by lowering droprates, making them tied to something finite like chests, or an attractive reason to salveage them in the crafting system).

2) Give people a reason to want to catch them all. Obviously its going to be impossible making each equipment required in an optimal T1 PvE deck but they dont need that. They can have dungeons/quests/dailies/achievement or difficulty modes with very niche conditions. For example a quest that requires you to build an all plant deck (at which point equipments which you never cared about all of a sudden gain value.)

In the end, the 'endgame' should be the chase of having all the cards and equips and mercs and consumables at your disposal so that you can be that all powerful lord ready to summon any mercenary in all the lands, cast the exact spells you need, and have a huge arsenal of equipment suitable for any occasion. Really hope the campaign manages to achieve that.

Mejis
07-22-2015, 07:54 PM
[snip]

2) Give people a reason to want to catch them all. ...[snip]...

In the end, the 'endgame' should be the chase of having all the cards and equips and mercs and consumables at your disposal so that you can be that all powerful lord ready to summon any mercenary in all the lands, cast the exact spells you need, and have a huge arsenal of equipment suitable for any occasion. Really hope the campaign manages to achieve that.

I think some of this comes down to implementing ways to view your collection/cards/mercs/equip etc.
It's cool to see my inventory fill up with equipment, but wouldn't it be awesome if -- in keeping with the new PvE designations -- we had books that we could open with little slots on each page showing all the equipment we had found and greyed-out/blank slots where stuff was missing. Then you could page through each one and see what you've found and what you're missing and really get that collector feeling.

As much as I grew bored of HS many many eons ago, the one thing they did well was paging through your collection as a book and (in crafting mode) being able to see what you're missing. That gives that nice feeling of "the hunt".

ziggarius
07-22-2015, 08:31 PM
Hey you can equip it, it's just suboptimal like 99.9999999% of the things that drop. It's not the sword's fault no one on the dev team designed a system where some or all barbarians care about Int.

Which is exactly like equipment here. :rolleyes:

You might not have the cards for it, but you can still use the equipment! It just might be suboptimal.

ryuukan
07-22-2015, 08:40 PM
dunno if its been posted but rare chests shouldnt have common equipment

Graydeath
07-23-2015, 01:58 AM
In my opinion there is a big mistake in the wole chest thing, you need only 1 copy of each equipment and 4 copy of each cards, but you found a lot of copy of equipment ad verry few copy of the cards.

Khazrakh
07-23-2015, 02:19 AM
I do enjoy opening my chests and I still think the basic idea is just brilliant.
That being said, I too feel that the way equipment is handed out sadly is a little off.

There are 2 issues I have right now:

- A lot of the equipment is just pointless. +1 Def for my Charge Bots? Ya well, 1/2 is better than 1/1 sure, but in how many games is that acutally going to matter? 1 out of 1000? So often times I open a chest, look at the equipment and go like "Great...never going to use that - next".

- Chests contain equipment far too often. I still have several hundred chests ot open but I already have 3-5 copies of some of the stuff.

Those both issues together make the chest opening rather underwhelming every now and then.

katkillad
07-23-2015, 03:03 AM
I thought about making an effort post thread, but I'll just put it here. Agreed with what some people are saying, none of this equipment really matters to me. It was always going to be a problem that there would be a handful of decks you will run 100% of the time due to being timely and efficient, unless you are playing a deck for fun.

A way around this to get more use out of more decks and more equipment, when they release dungeons they could have shard restrictions on some of the dungeons so we aren't using a mono-ruby deck every time. Maybe that is a little extreme, in which case I would suggest challenges like each dungeon has "beat this dungeon with a deck containing wild shards", that way you need at least 3 different decks and using much more equipment if you want to beat the challenges.

Cainhu
07-23-2015, 03:30 AM
Many of the equipment useless out of the gate, since the bonus is minimal, or there are obviously better equipment in the same slot for the same deck archetype. And then you get multiples, what you can't use or even sell for a resonable price because everybody is drowning in equipment.

Oroniss
07-23-2015, 03:41 AM
The same can be said of most of the cards though.

A more varied PvE experience will likely greatly increase the number of cards, and equipment, that see play. If mercenaries can use equipment, that will also allow more niche pieces to be useful as counters to specific fights in a dungeon. A sideboard system would do the same thing.

In an ideal world we would get everything at the same time, but I'm not writing off the equipment until I have a full picture of where it could be used.

Ertzi
07-23-2015, 04:14 AM
I can live with the current system, but I would really prefer that every single piece of PvE content would be available for simply playing PvE. I initially thought this would be the case. I do not like PvE cards or equipment dropping from chests. PvP AAs and sleeves, sure! Just not anything that has an actual use in PvE.

This approach suggests that PvE players are required to buy packs to get chests. And do not forget the Wheel rewards. These require a chest as well, and the chance is so small that a player more likely needs dozens of chests just to get one good PvE card. If previous sets are anything to go by, the most fun and cool PvE cards are constantly priced well over 1000 plat (never with gold), which makes them pretty much unattainable for the newer PvE player who does not have too much money to spend. This, I feel, is a problem. These should all be grindable free somehow.

Remember, these are the players that should be able to play the game essentially for free. Now, you could say that one should just buy things with gold then, but there is nowhere near enough gold coming from PvE at the moment to buy any relevant items with gold, and, I reiterate, many of these items are so valuable that they are only listed with plat. This might change in the future, I am aware of that. But the current situation is not optimal.

I have no problems with any PvP content being hard to get or expensive. That is part of the PvP side of the game and I have jumped right into that as well, so I am constantly spending real money to get more stuff. I think this is fair, if you want PvP toys (even in PvE), you need to fork up the moolah. I just feel like some of the PvE cards are starting to become the most expensive cards in the entire game, which is, in my opinion, definitely not good for the side of the game that should be able to be enjoyed for free.

Salverus
07-23-2015, 04:25 AM
why not let arena drop common chests too instead of the equips directly ;)?

Stok3d
07-23-2015, 04:25 AM
I just feel like some of the PvE cards are starting to become the most expensive cards in the entire game, which is, in my opinion, definitely not good for the side of the game that should be able to be enjoyed for free.

This is a dream-come-true for PvE people and 100% opposite of what you stated. PvE has a high value which will easily allow the transfer over to PvP. I have never heard of a game where the payout is so high per hour of play. Enjoy it while it lasts as it will obviously become diluted as millions join for PvE.

L1ght
07-23-2015, 04:34 AM
Easy the most disappointing thing I've opened is my one and only Primal chest to see 3 equips, all of which I got already from lower rarity chests. Feels bad.

Ertzi
07-23-2015, 04:35 AM
This is a dream-come-true for PvE people and 100% opposite of what you stated. PvE has a high value which will easily allow the transfer over to PvP. I have never heard of a game where the payout is so high per hour of play. Enjoy it while it lasts as it will obviously become diluted as millions join for PvE.

I would agree, if you could attain Shiitake Chef and Water Elemental through playing PvE. How can a PvE player benefit from these being very valuable right now?

Kasbark
07-23-2015, 04:36 AM
I think Crypto made a few key mistakes with chests:

The Wheel of Fate is badly designed
The rewards when spinning, as well the the likelyhood of each result, is the same if you spin a common chest for 1100 gold, or a legendary chest for 30.000 gold. This means that when spinning an expensive chest, any result other than an upgrade (and perhaps the fabled tripple red results) is a 'loss'. Sure you might technically win something, but if that reward is a Slamvolt you've still thrown over 300 plat out the window.

This could be fixed by giving free re-rolls with rewards on the WoF, rather than paid re-rolls.

Mid tier chests are bad
Rare chests contain mostly the same rewards as common and uncommon chests. Sure the chances of getting rare equipment is higher, but since the loot tables are not that large, this does not matter unless you are opening very few chests. With a roughly 25% chance to drop common/uncommon gear, these chests feel terrible to open 1/4 of the time.

Chests should not contain gear 2 rarities below their level. Preferably not even 1 below their level, but certainly not 2.

L1ght
07-23-2015, 04:43 AM
Im honestly surprised CZE doesn't get in serious legal trouble with Wheel of Fate.

Think about it, you are literally gambling $3.00 US per roll. Even the poker machines don't cost that much.

Oli
07-23-2015, 04:46 AM
Easy the most disappointing thing I've opened is my one and only Primal chest to see 3 equips, all of which I got already from lower rarity chests. Feels bad.
+1

Cainhu
07-23-2015, 05:36 AM
This is a dream-come-true for PvE people and 100% opposite of what you stated. PvE has a high value which will easily allow the transfer over to PvP. I have never heard of a game where the payout is so high per hour of play. Enjoy it while it lasts as it will obviously become diluted as millions join for PvE.

This would be true, if said valuable PvE cards would be attainable by playing PvE, or at least easier attainable by PvE than PvP, but it's not the case.

Lafoote
07-23-2015, 06:26 AM
This is a dream-come-true for PvE people and 100% opposite of what you stated. PvE has a high value which will easily allow the transfer over to PvP. I have never heard of a game where the payout is so high per hour of play. Enjoy it while it lasts as it will obviously become diluted as millions join for PvE.

No, this is awful. I've already spent a slew of money on PVP cards, now I'm going to have to spend to obtain PVE cards as well? This is starting to feel like a gouge fest instead of a card game. Was Urunaaz responsible for PVE distribution?

plaguedealer
07-23-2015, 06:35 AM
I am not a f2p player, but I can see the argument that it is weird that pve cards come from pvp stuff. I honestly don't see how that benefits the f2p player.

However, a f2p player does not need all the pve cards. I see nothing wrong with expensive pve cards. There are a million ways to clear the arena and you don't need angel of foresight or air elemental (shitake chef sucks imo). Giving a paying player access to expensive pve cards is fine.

Svenn
07-23-2015, 06:37 AM
I am not a f2p player, but I can see the argument that it is weird that pve cards come from pvp stuff. I honestly don't see how that benefits the f2p player.

However, a f2p player does not need all the pve cards. I see nothing wrong with expensive pve cards. There are a million ways to clear the arena and you don't need angel of foresight or air elemental (shitake chef sucks imo). Giving a paying player access to expensive pve cards is fine.

100% agree with this. On top of that, you can play PvE and convert stuff to platinum to buy it anyway.

propa
07-23-2015, 06:49 AM
10 primal guys 10 primal that cost me my tears,my joy, my pride and my manhood

and theres no sleeve to be seen, what worse they give me equipment that i found at lower level chest.

heh heh heh heh heh

*now i know the feeling of people saying theyre crazy after doing some irrational gamble and it didnt pay off*

RamzaBehoulve
07-23-2015, 07:06 AM
If you can't handle gambling, don't spin or buy chests. It's really as simple as that for now.

Vorpal
07-23-2015, 08:41 AM
Tried to upload a screenshot of the Flame Cut Cuirass since I found it lulzy, but imgur is being frustratingly naughty.

It grants: Your Vanguards of Gawaine have, "Vanguard of Cerulea you control have Swiftstrike."

At least the two cards in question are commons.
.

There is a companion piece for the Vanguard of Cerulea that gives the Vangaurd of Gawaine flight.

I want to run a tri shard human deck through arena now.

Vorpal
07-23-2015, 08:49 AM
It definitely would be nice of the pve cards were obtained in rough parity with their equipment, but such is not the case.

Maybe there will be a crafting system where you can melt down equipment to create pve cards.

Incindium
07-23-2015, 08:50 AM
The legendary equip for Savage Lord along with new Dinos in Set 3 makes for a pretty sweet dino deck to run in the Arena.

Selanius
07-23-2015, 10:09 AM
WoF spin costs are just too high relative to the value of gold and the rewards within the chests. Plain and simple. No one wants PvE cards to be going for 1000+ plat on the AH just for a small subset of perfectionists to buy them.

ghulzen
07-23-2015, 10:33 AM
The legendary equip for Savage Lord along with new Dinos in Set 3 makes for a pretty sweet dino deck to run in the Arena.

His equip with pack raptor (and equip) is a lot of fun. I don't even have crocosaur yet either.

IronPheasant
07-23-2015, 12:47 PM
Easy the most disappointing thing I've opened is my one and only Primal chest to see 3 equips, all of which I got already from lower rarity chests. Feels bad.

Anything short of a PRIMAL pack in a PRIMAL chest is gonna be not remotely worth spinning for it.

Please enjoy your 80% chance of receiving $0.00 instead.

Edit: Sorry, was lazy there. The actual chance of receiving $0.00 is 51.2%.


Im honestly surprised CZE doesn't get in serious legal trouble with Wheel of Fate.

Think about it, you are literally gambling $3.00 US per roll. Even the poker machines don't cost that much.

You're gambling when you enter a tournament, too.


http://i.imgur.com/R4Ml4.gif



Enjoy it while it lasts as it will obviously become diluted as millions join for PvE.

More diluted by card pool inflation. A nuclear bomb 3 drop is a nuclear bomb 3 drop, and a deck can only hold ~60 to 150 cards.

Mejis
07-23-2015, 01:08 PM
Easy the most disappointing thing I've opened is my one and only Primal chest to see 3 equips, all of which I got already from lower rarity chests. Feels bad.

I thought we were told a while ago that primal chests have their own exclusive loot table.
Also, wouldn't it make sense to have each chest rarity have it's own exclusive loot table, that way making each chest tier valuable and worth chasing?

Mahes
07-23-2015, 01:24 PM
Yes,

That would have made sense.

thegreybetween
07-23-2015, 01:31 PM
There are items which are unique to each of the chest rarities, but each rarity also has a bit of overlap with other loot tables. These are my own observations after opening 400-500 chests (all were spun chests, though I'm sure that doesn't matter):

We know sleeves are Primal exclusive. Primal chests also have the ability to spawn all of the upper-end equipment, mercenaries, AA cards, PvE cards, Stardust, and booster packs. I am not sure in there is a low-end cutoff for Primals, but there are certainly items in Primal chests that can spawn in lesser chests. I've opened seven, and got 4 sets of sleeves, three mercs, promo Stardust, several PvE cards, and each piece of equipment that I pulled was legendary rarity.

I've seen Legendary chests spawn most non-sleeve items, including booster packs. They favor rare-legendary rarity on items, but I have seen a few uncommon items drop. While there are a few disappointing results from Legendary chests, overall I feel like each one that I've opened has been pretty solid. Unlike...

Rare chests are usually a massive ball of disappointment. They drop one item that has a small chance of being legendary, but average uncommon-rare for drops. A depressing number of common equipment drops out of them as well. You can get mercs, PvE cards, AAs an a variety of Stardust from them, but the odds of a non-equipment drop are much lower than they seem like they should be. I've never seen a booster pack spawn from a rare chest, so I'm not sure if it is possible. Overall, rare chests are the biggest let-down of the crew (maybe this was intentional to encourage upgrade attempts?)

Uncommon chests are pretty solid. They have a lot of overlap with both Common and Rare chests, but have a noticeably better rarity average than common chests. AA cards are reasonably common from them, and they will (albeit very rarely) drop PvE cards. No sign of mercs or boosters from Uncommons yet. I haven't pulled anything of legendary rarity out of one yet, but it may be possible given that rare stuff can spawn in commons.

Common Chests run the gamut of common, uncommon, and rare equipment. Common and uncommon Stardust as well, and an occasional AA card. I have not yet seen a merc, PvE card, or anything above rare in terms of loot.

Zophie
07-23-2015, 02:13 PM
Items in chests should fit with the rarity of the chest itself. It's okay for a chest to have a small chance at a higher rarity reward, but it should never be the other way around. If I open a rare chest I expect a rare reward, anything less is just wrong. Sorry but I just can't understand why these loot tables were implemented the way they are and I have to agree with others it's a bit disappointing.

Mejis
07-23-2015, 02:15 PM
Items in chests should fit with the rarity of the chest itself. It's okay for a chest to have a small chance at a higher rarity reward, but it should never be the other way around. If I open a rare chest I expect a rare reward, anything less is just wrong. Sorry but I just can't understand why these loot tables were implemented the way they are and I have to agree with others it's a bit disappointing.

Yeah, completely agree. Slight chance of higher rarity is fine (or just a fixed rarity to the chest), but getting something lower goes against what feels right.

Ertzi
07-23-2015, 02:19 PM
Agreed. I just opened all my rare chests. It was horrible.

Oli
07-23-2015, 02:36 PM
The problem is: it's just unfun.
First you try to upgrade a legendary chest for 30000 (and get a merc you have already 10 of), roll a 2nd time without any luck and after this you open the chest to get 3 equipment you have already 3 from your uncommon chests.
Kills quite a lot of tension...
At least up the ratio of the PvE cards. I have soo many equipment, and so few PvE cards... But now that I opened all my chest it's not that important anyways...

thegreybetween
07-23-2015, 02:38 PM
Rare chests suck.

Every other rarity has performed well enough for me. I've had a few lackluster Legendary opens, but not enough to really sour me. Uncommon chests are relative champs in terms of their ability to recover a bad run.

But those damned Rare chests... Nothing like dropping 4,300G+ to upgrade from a Common only to open up another Barbaric Helm :mad: They were originally supposed to drop 2 items, but then got downgraded to only one. That didn't bother me, because I was under the impression that the loot drops would be worthwhile enough that limiting them was somehow important. But in practice, Rare chests are just lame.

It seems as though, given the loot table is as lackluster as it is, it would have been better to at least let Rare chests drop 2x items. That would mitigate the sting of a series of disappointing drops.

But yeah, sign me up for the petition to overhaul the Rare chest loot table to prevent common drops. Yuck.

TOOT
07-23-2015, 02:51 PM
Rare thru Primal chests still need to drop some "junk" in order to preserve the value of some chase things that are included in those loot tables. Rare chests have primal within reach from a single spin. Rare chest contents are fine considering how abundant they are to begin with.

The point of rolling chests are to obtain stuff on the spin loot tables, or to eventually upgrade to Primal where the valuable stuff is located due to it's scarcity, including the PVE cards. Everyone complaining it is too hard or not worth it would then be complaining that everything is worthless (like equipment) instead. You can just sell off your chests if you want no part of it, or adjust your expectations of being able to get a full playset of everything if you don't want to pay for stuff individually off the AH, or accumulate a huge pile of gold from whatever avenue.

I really see nothing wrong at all with how the entire system was implemented.

Xexist
07-23-2015, 02:56 PM
I got 2 items from a rare chest earlier I think...

Soken
07-23-2015, 02:58 PM
Opened 3 primal chest and got 3 trash items all 3 times. Rares are not worth opening at all. Commons and legendary are the only worth chest to open. Pretty disappointed.

BossHoss
07-23-2015, 03:12 PM
Items in chests should fit with the rarity of the chest itself. It's okay for a chest to have a small chance at a higher rarity reward, but it should never be the other way around. If I open a rare chest I expect a rare reward, anything less is just wrong. Sorry but I just can't understand why these loot tables were implemented the way they are and I have to agree with others it's a bit disappointing.

Destiny had this same issue with Engrams that they eventually patched due to depressing complaints... Every engram pretty much guaranteed an item of a lower rarity... It creates a horrible sense of disappointment every time. Rather than expecting equal and getting excited when you land a boosted rarity item.

L1ght
07-23-2015, 03:22 PM
You're gambling when you enter a tournament, too.


Tournaments are a game of skill - You have some control over the outcome.

Wheel of Fate is a game of chance - You have no control over the outcome.

It is straight up gambling and probably would require a gaming license. $3.00 per spin is not "fun throwaway money". That's serious casino dollars.

thegreybetween
07-23-2015, 03:27 PM
If it was $3.00 per spin, you'd have a point.

Just because Gold can be sold for Platinum and Platinum can be purchased for cash doesn't necessarily equate to Gold = Cash. Most Gold, and a fair amount of Platinum, exists in the hands of players who did not spend any actual cash to get it. These people risk nothing (from a gaming license standpoint) when they roll a chest.

Mejis
07-23-2015, 03:38 PM
Tournaments are a game of skill - You have some control over the outcome.

Wheel of Fate is a game of chance - You have no control over the outcome.

It is straight up gambling and probably would require a gaming license. $3.00 per spin is not "fun throwaway money". That's serious casino dollars.

But gold does not equal real money. sure some players trade that way, but for a lot gold = time. You are spending your time to spin chests.

the_artic_one
07-23-2015, 03:45 PM
Tournaments are a game of skill - You have some control over the outcome.

Wheel of Fate is a game of chance - You have no control over the outcome.

It is straight up gambling and probably would require a gaming license. $3.00 per spin is not "fun throwaway money". That's serious casino dollars.

If gaming licenses worked the way you think they do, most games would need them including WoW, TF2, Chuck-E-Cheese, and 99% of all mobile games.

Thankfully they don't work that way. As long as you don't win real money it's not gambling no matter how much you can spend on the game.

L1ght
07-23-2015, 03:59 PM
If gaming licenses worked the way you think they do, most games would need them including WoW, TF2, Chuck-E-Cheese, and 99% of all mobile games.

Thankfully they don't work that way. As long as you don't win real money it's not gambling no matter how much you can spend on the game.

You would be surprised.

I know Diablo III had serious troubles with their RMAH (Real Money Auction House) due to the fact that they essentially turned the RNG drops (legendaries, set pieces etc) into gambling.

In HEX's case sure you could say Gold is free. But it is also quite a liquid currency, which means it has value.

When 15,000 gold can buy a booster pack, and a booster pack costs 200 plat, and plat costs real money... Add in boosters are sold for IRL directly for $USD. I think your definitely in a gray area.

Anyway my point is the gold values to spin are ridiculous, getting to the point where I legitimately think they may run into problems with gambling licenses.

IronPheasant
07-23-2015, 04:02 PM
It is straight up gambling and probably would require a gaming license. $3.00 per spin is not "fun throwaway money". That's serious casino dollars.

It's gonna be $6 a spin soon enough.
http://i.imgur.com/R4Ml4.gif


You'll feel nostalgia for the days of lighting your tree fiddy on fire.

God knows there are... consequences if you don't have tree fiddy to give.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h_XfzsfLIag/U0lYLkSRgQI/AAAAAAAADxQ/FH_CV3veeyw/s1600/Spicer+Nessie+by+Gino+D%27Achille.JPG



Everyone complaining it is too hard or not worth it would then be complaining that everything is worthless (like equipment) instead.

I guess I can understand why gold isn't a drop from chests since they want a player's time into the game to be worth something.

This is a card game. We only care about cards and things that get us more cards. Ideally the garbage we'd be complaining about here would be jank commons. Yeah, it costs a lot of money to make more cards... But... Honestly..... wait for it.....

WHY AREN'T ORDINARY SINGLE PVP CARDS ON THE LOOT TABLE.

the_artic_one
07-23-2015, 04:13 PM
I know Diablo III had serious troubles with their RMAH (Real Money Auction House) due to the fact that they essentially turned the RNG drops (legendaries, set pieces etc) into gambling
They're the only ones who have ever gotten in trouble with that and that's because they would literally transfer cash into your bank account.

TF2 hats can be traded for cash-equivalent store credit (btw a roll on a TF2 crate is slightly under $3) but they don't get in trouble because there's no way to get steam to give you actual money for your store credit.

Kasbark
07-24-2015, 04:54 AM
I think there is consensus that chests containing items 2 rarities lower than their own rarity sucks. It's extremely annoying to open a rare chest and get a common piece of equipment.

I think there should be an overall lower dropchance of equipment from higher tier chests (and they should drop more stardust and PVE cards instead) and they should not be able to drop low tier gear at all.

Mahes
07-24-2015, 06:31 AM
Honestly I wish they would occasionally have gold in them. Have common chests give 500 gold, uncommon 1000 and rares 2000. It would help to offset the spins and differentiate the 3 kinds of chests.

Too late now though.

Vorpal
07-24-2015, 08:42 AM
Rare thru Primal chests still need to drop some "junk" in order to preserve the value of some chase things that are included in those loot tables. Rare chests have primal within reach from a single spin. Rare chest contents are fine considering how abundant they are to begin with

No, they do not need to drop items that are two rarities below the chest.

There is plenty of 'junk' of the appropriate rarity. Obviously not every piece of legendary or rare equipment is a chase item.

knightofeffect
07-24-2015, 09:27 AM
If it was $3.00 per spin, you'd have a point.

Just because Gold can be sold for Platinum and Platinum can be purchased for cash doesn't necessarily equate to Gold = Cash. Most Gold, and a fair amount of Platinum, exists in the hands of players who did not spend any actual cash to get it. These people risk nothing (from a gaming license standpoint) when they roll a chest.

The opportunity cost of a legendary spin is in fact $3. I don't know why people got all involved in a discussion about the complexity of real money trading/gambling in video games when the opportunity cost of 30,000 gold is the point.

Any user that has the inclination to purchase a pack through any method available to the game experiences a realized cost equal to the opportunity cost of the 30,000 gold, which in general terms = $3.

I think most people would agree that there is a better way to do the chest loot tables than is currently implemented. Here is one idea http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44740

nicosharp
07-24-2015, 09:38 AM
The opportunity cost of a legendary spin is in fact $3. I don't know why people got all involved in a discussion about the complexity of real money trading/gambling in video games when the opportunity cost of 30,000 gold is the point.

Any user that has the inclination to purchase a pack through any method available to the game experiences a realized cost equal to the opportunity cost of the 30,000 gold, which in general terms = $3.

I think most people would agree that there is a better way to do the chest loot tables than is currently implemented. Here is one idea http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44740
I like to equate the cost to time as well.
Sure it's $3 at a 100:1 ratio, but we seem to be at a lower ratio still - so its a bit more than $3. Also, a lot of completely rolled legendary chests come with the assumption you will need to re-roll... Maybe closer to 45,000gold per chest (if you are lucky)

I equate this to 4 to 5 hours of time commitment in the game, or the equivalent cost that individual is willing to pay for those 4 to 5 hours of time commitment to roll their chest

I envy those that have the time and energy to successfully play the market on the AH, and make this an easy write-off regarding flat costs.

thegreybetween
07-24-2015, 12:12 PM
In any event, my point was that you will not run up against gambling laws when users are wagering their opportunity costs. I agree that rolling a high-tier chest is very expensive regardless of the metric you use to define cost. But it will never be construed as proper "gambling" (in the legally enforceable sense of the word) under the current system.

knightofeffect
07-24-2015, 12:38 PM
@thegreybetween I understand what you are saying, I just dont agree in sidetracking the conversation with a discussion about gambling laws, when its really about the player-realized cost investment into the value of a legendary and/or primal chest. (not saying you side tracked the conversation, I was just targeting that whole aspect)

@nico I was mainly responding to the point of view that the investment into legendary chest spinning should be considered less than a flat $3 opportunity cost. Honestly to me, a time investment of 3 hours is significantly more than $3. However, the time investment aspect is a more subjective measure as, I personally quite enjoy running arena, not to mention the additional loot gained from arena during that time (sadly very negligible currently).

elfstone
07-24-2015, 12:47 PM
As I keep saying, we need more friggin Faucets. We have half a dozen sinks, and 1 faucet. Give us another way to gain gold for crying out loud. Then mebbe it won't be quite so ridiculous

Svenn
07-24-2015, 02:10 PM
As I keep saying, we need more friggin Faucets. We have half a dozen sinks, and 1 faucet. Give us another way to gain gold for crying out loud. Then mebbe it won't be quite so ridiculous
That's the PvE. That's where all the gold will come from. And now it's the next major patch. When there's a bunch of dungeons and stuff then faucets won't be a problem.

HexEnt is developing for the long term. It's all coming together, albeit slowly.

velk
07-24-2015, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE=knightofeffect;509412]The opportunity cost of a legendary spin is in fact $3. I don't know why people got all involved in a discussion about the complexity of real money trading/gambling in video games when the opportunity cost of 30,000 gold is the point. /QUOTE]

Lines are far too blurry with games for things like that to make any sense.

You could as well say that the opportunity cost of playing an arena match is $50 because you could have done an hour of overtime instead.

Or that the opportunity cost of playing an arena match is negative $20 because you didn't go and see a movie.

Pretty much every single person playing Hex is completely irrational actor from a strict economics standpoint, trying to apply simple calculations is futile.

Soken
07-25-2015, 10:33 PM
Did i just get really unlucky with my 3 primal chest. Why do they go for so much x.x cant believe i threw away 60$

spankydonkey
07-26-2015, 03:14 AM
I don't feel Primal chests have anywhere near a good enough loot table, I only got 2 sleeves & 1 descent AA card from 7no chests.
When you consider how much they cost to get.
I think that's very poor. :(

Has taught my one thing, don't spin any chests higher than a common, just is not worth it.
I now just open them.

Lafoote
07-26-2015, 12:20 PM
That's the PvE. That's where all the gold will come from. And now it's the next major patch. When there's a bunch of dungeons and stuff then faucets won't be a problem.

HexEnt is developing for the long term. It's all coming together, albeit slowly.

Still, we didn't really need the AA cards to soak up so much gold right before chests went live. We needed a 10x gold event and maybe we'd have enough collectively just to catch up on all the set one chests we have laying around.

MatWith1T
07-26-2015, 12:48 PM
That's the PvE. That's where all the gold will come from. And now it's the next major patch. When there's a bunch of dungeons and stuff then faucets won't be a problem.

HexEnt is developing for the long term. It's all coming together, albeit slowly.

IIRC though, the PvE content isn't going to have a much higher gold earning rate/hour than arena. Will certainly be nice to have the variety, but still will be hours of grinding to roll an upper tier chest.

Soken
07-26-2015, 01:28 PM
I don't feel Primal chests have anywhere near a good enough loot table, I only got 2 sleeves & 1 descent AA card from 7no chests.
When you consider how much they cost to get.
I think that's very poor. :(

Has taught my one thing, don't spin any chests higher than a common, just is not worth it.
I now just open them.

Atlest you got something to show for it lol. I think it should give you atlest 1 primal only loot drop or something. Opening 3 and getting 6 legendary equipment and 3 blue mercs totaling 80 plat values is incredibly low. I Barely made 1% of my money back, with no sleeves x.x

Vorpal
07-26-2015, 02:15 PM
Having chests of any level be dropping gear that drops in lower rarity chests is brutally unfun and bad design. Make them drop on tier stardust instead.

Destiny had the exact same system, everyone absolutely hated it, they quickly changed it. Actually, Hex's is even more unfun, because people pour hundreds of thousands of gold into getting the top tier chest, which represents pretty significant real $$. In Destiny they just ran a nightfall or something in 30 minutes.

wolzarg
07-26-2015, 07:13 PM
I have yet to find a booster in a chest but just that being possible is super cool to me. That said yes the common from rare is a punch in the gut i would like to see chests go up and down a maximum of one step. Commons-uncommon common-uncommon-rare Uncommon-rare-legend rare-legend-primal(no sleeves) legend-primal With the chance of either a up or downgrade being in the low end random number pushing 10% so a rare has a 10% chance to take from the uncommon pool and 10% from the legend pool leaving 80% for rare. This also serves to hold back commons and improve primals. Common has 90% chance to be common and 10% to be uncommon while primal has 90% to be primal and 10% to be legend. No chest should ever go bellow or above a single rarity difference honestly.