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MStreva89
07-23-2015, 08:15 AM
Hey guys, been awhile since I last posted regarding a tier list for competitive DC DBG, but with the release of Teen Titans and Arrow: Crossover, I figured it would be a good time to drop some info I've gathered regarding the current state of my play group's meta. We use all Character cards at the moment, aside from Batman (15) and Joker (15) which we are testing for the concept of Confrontation only referring to when buying a Super-Hero/Villain, so at the moment they are not listed. (Note - Arrow: Crossover hasn't made it to any of our local stores yet, so this list does not have them listed as we haven't had the chance to test their true potential)

Tier 0: BANNED - No thought process required, these guys will win 95% of all games.

Cyborg (Crisis), Shazam! (Crisis)

Tier 1: Overpowered - Pick these guys as fast as possible, they are game changers.

Aquaman, Shazam!, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Harley Quinn, Kid Flash, Beast Boy, Batman (12), Indigo-1, The Flash

Tier 2: Set Dependent - Depending on the base set, each of these guys becomes Tier 1 or better.

Wonder Woman, Starfire, Bane, Lex Luthor, Bizarro, Deathstroke, Sinestro, Starfire (Teen), Wonder Woman (Crisis), Starfire (Crisis), Green Arrow, White Lantern Deadman, Saint Walker, Doctor Fate

Tier 3: Partner Dependent - These guys are great second picks.

Green Lantern, Batgirl, Black Manta, Black Adam, Batman (Crisis), Aquaman (Crisis), Red Tornado (Crisis), Joker (12), Animal Man, Constantine, Mr. Terrific, Joker

Tier 4: Luck Dependent - These guys hope for a good opener to start steam rolling.

Superman, Batman, Hawkman, Black Canary, Nightwing, Booster Gold, Red Robin, Wonder Girl, Superboy, Raven, Stargirl, Wildcat

Tier 5: Underwhelming - It's hard to play these guys, even in their preferred set.

Red Tornado, Blue Beetle, Superman (Crisis), The Flash (Crisis), Martian Manhunter (Crisis), Batgirl (Crisis), Hawkman (Crisis), Batman (9), Joker (9), Swamp Thing, Zatanna Zatara, Robin, Kyle Rayner, Power Girl, Jay Garrick, Alan Scott

Tier 6: Basically Useless - If you pick one of these, we got a problem.

Nightwing (Crisis), Green Lantern (Crisis), Black Canary (Crisis), Booster Gold (Crisis), Star Sapphire, Red Lantern Supergirl

LRoq617
07-23-2015, 09:01 AM
Harley also finally got a shot in the arm for 1-character play. In Teen Titans, her ability triggers whenever you discard an ongoing card from play, so she gets absurd value out of Molecular Vibration, Lady Vic, Detonator, Bumblebee, etc. Then there's also Inertia. It's a great set for her, and in 2-Character, I'm sure she's insane with Beast Boy, in addition to her previous cohorts like Batgirl and Green Arrow.

MStreva89
07-23-2015, 10:28 AM
Absolutely, Harley Quinn seems insane in Teen Titans for that reason, not to mention if your opponent wants to Jinx or Geokinesis you and discard your Ongoing? Draw a card for free.

Let's not even mention Beast Boy and Harley Quinn... my play group uses a banning draft system to select Characters. Harley Quinn and Beast Boy make it past picks and bans to get both? Someone lost their damn minds!

LRoq617
07-23-2015, 11:25 AM
Once I get ahold of Arrow, I'll most likely be posting a similar list for one-character, but Teen Titans has changed a LOT of things about how good a character can be. Most of the Teen expansion-based characters likely won't perform well in other sets due to the lack of the Ongoing mechanic in droves. Only Kid Flash and Beast Boy will really be able to overperform, at least on paper. Characters like Starfire (Teen) will likely suffer however, as her ability is harder to trigger than Green Lantern's in the other 3 expansions.

LexLuthorJr
07-23-2015, 02:51 PM
Sometimes it also has to do with the number of players. Sinestro, for example, is better with more players as his attacks are more likely to hit someone. He's not so good in a one-on-one game. Set also has more to do with it than you're taking into account. Superman and Batman, for example, started out lacking. They perform much better in later sets as the Super Powers and Equipment aren't as must-have as they were in the first set.

In our experience, Deathstroke isn't very good even in Forever Evil. You may have two or three decent turns with him, but that's it. He's not as consistent as some other characters with Power bonuses.

We've played Harley Quinn in several original set games and she just doesn't perform as well as she does in Forever Evil. Not sure why. Lack of cards that cause discarding/passing?

Red Lantern Supergirl is a beast in Forever Evil. Granted, she's a little lacking in other sets and we have yet to use her with Titans, but I wouldn't discount her completely.

Saint Walker is terrible. Even if you get lucky with a few destroys early in the game, his ability is hardly ever used later in the game because your deck is full of cards you don't want to destroy.

I would say The Flash is more luck dependent. Not good or bad, he just really depends on good cards. Gaining a draw Location early makes him a strong contender, but only getting simple draws like Kid Flash and Flight Ring don't really do it.

The4gotNdeath
07-23-2015, 04:14 PM
Although i feel like i dont agree with a few of these tier placements, the only argument ill make for now is superman being luck dependant. I just feel like a character whose ability is beneficial to stacking kicks early can hardly be called "luck". At the very worst possible scenario lets say the only super powers that are available to buy early are kicks, superman is still functional early game until his kicks buy him better cards.

destroth
07-23-2015, 06:44 PM
Although i feel like i dont agree with a few of these tier placements, the only argument ill make for now is superman being luck dependant. I just feel like a character whose ability is beneficial to stacking kicks early can hardly be called "luck". At the very worst possible scenario lets say the only super powers that are available to buy early are kicks, superman is still functional early game until his kicks buy him better cards.

His list is base on a 2 superheroes variant... That is u play as both characters instead of one... Those +1 power for each type heroes has less synergy in term of their abilities... Hence lower tiered

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 04:41 AM
Although i feel like i dont agree with a few of these tier placements, the only argument ill make for now is superman being luck dependant. I just feel like a character whose ability is beneficial to stacking kicks early can hardly be called "luck". At the very worst possible scenario lets say the only super powers that are available to buy early are kicks, superman is still functional early game until his kicks buy him better cards.

You are utterly correct on a 1 character style game. He is definitely one of the more universally good super heroes because of his interaction with kicks.

As destroth pointed out, his usefulness doesn't increase with another super hero. It stays about where it is. That being said, I wouldn't make a low tier description synonymous with "luck" as the OP did. Superman actually FORCES you to have good starting turns, for the reasons Ndeath stated. He might be lower tiered in a two hero setup, but he is the opposite of "Tier 4: Luck Dependent - These guys hope for a good opener to start steam rolling." Superman GETS the steam rolling.

I'd be much more interested in seeing LRoq617's single hero list when it comes out. My group used to play with two heroes from time to time, but we quickly learned to abuse all that extra power to the point where the games didn't take long enough to even justify setting the game up in the first place haha it works a little better with impossible super villains, but not much

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 04:49 AM
You are utterly correct on a 1 character style game. He is definitely one of the more universally good super heroes because of his interaction with kicks.

As destroth pointed out, his usefulness doesn't increase with another super hero. It stays about where it is. That being said, I wouldn't make a low tier description synonymous with "luck" as the OP did. Superman actually FORCES you to have good starting turns, for the reasons Ndeath stated. He might be lower tiered in a two hero setup, but he is the opposite of "Tier 4: Luck Dependent - These guys hope for a good opener to start steam rolling." Superman GETS the steam rolling.

I'd be much more interested in seeing LRoq617's single hero list when it comes out. My group used to play with two heroes from time to time, but we quickly learned to abuse all that extra power to the point where the games didn't take long enough to even justify setting the game up in the first place haha it works a little better with impossible super villains, but not much

Thanks for the props. I have a lot going on these days with GenCon coming up, so it may be a short while. I just picked up Arrow last night, and it's... different. The inherent mechanic of the set is definitely interesting, but I feel it could've benefitted better from a large expansion rather than a 14-card addition to the main deck. I'll have to see how some games go, but as of right now, all 5 characters appear somewhat underpowered compared to characters from other DC sets, at least on paper.

Diggle's ability is sweet, though.

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 05:30 AM
Also, no matter the variant, I honestly don't see how someone like Wildcat can be ranked that low. His draw power is among the best in the game. Not as consistent as someone like Cyborg, mind you, but I'd rank him slightly underneath Indigo-1. He's a very solid above-average character that has plenty of synergy.

And Black Manta, even at Tier 3, is overrated IMO.

MStreva89
07-24-2015, 06:01 AM
Well, I gotta back up my claims, so here goes:

1) Superman is more powerful in single hero, however even then he is outshined clearly by 1 guy, Cyborg. You can only benefit from 1 Kick and once you start loading your deck with them, it's not exactly giving you utility, combo, or presence, just power. He is referred to as Luck Dependent because you need Super Powers to show up and then you need to buy them over your opponent. Now what makes that Luck Dependent and someone like Batman (12) 2 tiers higher than him? Batman (12) can be combo'd with several other Characters to make him more consistent and when that occurs, he's going to be a force of nature as compared to Superman. I'll elaborate further down.

2) Wildcat is Luck Dependent for the reason of getting a Hero and/or a Villain early game. Granted, there are many of both types to benefit him, so if you combo him with someone for power or more utility, like Indigo-1, he's gonna be great. But you need those card types and you need those Punches. Sure he can have an amazing early game, but that's if he's constantly triggering his ability. Normally he will net you 1 card since you can't get both Hero and Villain early game. Now how does he compared to Starfire who has a higher chance to net 1 free draw every turn early game (Not in Classic due to high volume of 6-7 Super Powers), due to the lower count of Super Powers in the main deck since there are Kicks available. Eventually the dream is to rid yourself of Punches or at least bring the count down so you aren't drawing multiple in a hand, which then makes it even harder to trigger him as maybe that hand with a Punch doesn't have a Hero or Villain since you've flooded your deck with other power cards (Super Strength, Heat Vision, Power Rings, etc.). The basis here is that yes he's powerful, but if you don't get the right cards at the right time, he's a piece of cardboard.

3) Black Manta... Not in a million years would I pick him without a combo based partner, which is why he is Partner Dependent. Just last night, I picked Batman (12) and Black Manta in Classic. Opened with Nth Metal and Kid Flash straight to the bottom, which meant turn 3 I was able to trigger Batman (12) and use the Doomsday in the Line-Up, then buy said Doomsday. Major swing turn right there. Black Manta is absolutely amazing in helping other Characters, but overall he's not impressive on his own. He can stack the bottom with good cards to use them before shuffling, but only the Line-Up. Now when he's combined with someone who has a combo theme? He's going places and fast. Always remember with Black Manta that to really show his power, he needs someone to back him up, like The Flash does. The Flash doesn't generate much of a bonus, but his true power lies in going first and getting that first view of the Line-Up, 5 cards at his disposal. Black Manta is a combo catalyst, he just needs a combo based Character to hang out with.


Anyone else have any comments or questions regarding my list, I am more than happy to explain. I play weekly to bi-weekly against friends for dinner tabs (loser buys dinner). So I gotta be meta and good or I end up forking out dough.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 06:22 AM
1) Superman is more powerful in single hero, however even then he is outshined clearly by 1 guy, Cyborg. You can only benefit from 1 Kick and once you start loading your deck with them, it's not exactly giving you utility, combo, or presence, just power. He is referred to as Luck Dependent because you need Super Powers to show up and then you need to buy them over your opponent. Now what makes that Luck Dependent and someone like Batman (12) 2 tiers higher than him? Batman (12) can be combo'd with several other Characters to make him more consistent and when that occurs, he's going to be a force of nature as compared to Superman. I'll elaborate further down.

Cyborg is a better super than Superman, for sure. The main utility that Superman has is his option to buy +3 power cards turn 1. That makes his early game amazing. His late game lacks unless you've got super powers in your deck, but even then, so much of this game revolves around your early game that it doesn't necessarily matter. Given that information, Cyborg having the best of Superman's early game while also having late game combo potential with his command draw ability makes him one of the best heroes in the first set if not the best. Possibly the most underrated cards in this game are Kicks. Knowing when to grab one is one of the main differences between a very skilled and a less than very skilled player, so a super hero that can interact with those kicks is a force not to be reckoned with.

So, just to be clear, I agree with you that Superman CAN be argued to be more luck dependent in a two super hero game, he is very much not that in a single hero game.

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 06:23 AM
1) Personally, I would never argue Superman over Batman (12). Superman is consistent, but still only slightly above average. Batman (12) is insane, and easily one of the best characters in the game. His ability can be difficult to trigger, but the upside he gains is huge.

2) Valid I suppose, but it's been pretty consistent in most games I've played. Even if he's only getting one or the other, he's merely a slightly worse Cyborg, plus a lot of Heroes and Villains draw into the other cards you need to complete a set (Hero + Villain + Punch). Also, Starfire is still arguably worse in Forever Evil. Ultra Strength = hooooooooooooooooooosed.

3) I can see it, but remember, I've only had experience with 1-character games, which is where, as you said, he kinda blows. His upside is that he can have the best turn 3 in the game, but without a partner, he's usually not setting up anything, AND his ability can't store Kicks on the bottom which is a huge downside when compared to someone like Aquaman.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 06:31 AM
3) I can see it, but remember, I've only had experience with 1-character games, which is where, as you said, he kinda blows. His upside is that he can have the best turn 3 in the game, but without a partner, he's usually not setting up anything, AND his ability can't store Kicks on the bottom which is a huge downside when compared to someone like Aquaman.

This this this. I can't stress enough the importance of early game kicks. They can give you enough early momentum that you're opponent won't be able to catch up for the whole game. This is why Aquaman is far superior to Black Manta

MStreva89
07-24-2015, 06:52 AM
This this this. I can't stress enough the importance of early game kicks. They can give you enough early momentum that you're opponent won't be able to catch up for the whole game. This is why Aquaman is far superior to Black Manta

Well right in my Tier List it shows that Aquaman is a stand-alone Character due to his ability to stack things like Kicks, he's never going to have a bad opener, just not possible. There's no comparison between Aquaman and Black Manta, the issue is when Aquaman is used or banned, then Black Manta steps up to the plate to start setting up those grand slam turns. So no argument of Black Manta compared to Aquaman is necessary.

However, regarding Superman, you can't factor Kicks as the purpose of his being, doing so is saying that he with the most Kicks is the strongest, which just isn't true. Superman gets +1 per turn if he plays a Kick, that's nothing to brag about. Animal Man nets +2 Power with a Kick, Punch, and something else, not being reliant on flooding with Kicks, but instead can grab power cards from the Line-Up. There's too many good cards in most any set that out weigh buying a Kick. There are 2 reasons to buy Kicks in a 1v1 game:

1) There is nothing of value on the board.
2) You don't want to add a new card to the Line-Up by buying a card.

At the end of the day, each Kick is another Punch, just stronger and worth VP. But in Classic, Heroes Unite, and Teen Titans, which are all combo based games, there is no reason to flood your deck with a card that does not combo. I've had games where my opponent is snatching up Kicks and Super-Villains, keeping the Line-Up stale and making it hard for me to combo, but if I'm setting up a combo, just watch me pull a single swing turn and win the whole game because of it. How to do it?

Classic: The Riddler + any power boosting play (Man of Steel, Parallax, Clayface, etc.)
Heroes Unite: Kyle Rayner, World's Mightiest Mortal, Teleportation, Trigon (the last 3 can snag Sciencells or Saint Walkers off the top)
Forever Evil: Pandora's Box, Pandora, Royal Flush Gang, Shazam!
Teen Titans: Silent Armor, Teen Titans Go!, Vic Stone (less swing turn, more just high powered turns)
Any game Character cards: Kid Flash, Shazam!

Argument is that Superman yes can start a game off strong and do good things, but at the end of the day it's whether or not you can abuse that game's combos that allows you to win a game consistently. Not every game is gonna have a stale Line-Up that allows you to waste turns buying Kicks and that's what Superman needs.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 07:23 AM
Well right in my Tier List it shows that Aquaman is a stand-alone Character due to his ability to stack things like Kicks, he's never going to have a bad opener, just not possible. There's no comparison between Aquaman and Black Manta, the issue is when Aquaman is used or banned, then Black Manta steps up to the plate to start setting up those grand slam turns. So no argument of Black Manta compared to Aquaman is necessary.

However, regarding Superman, you can't factor Kicks as the purpose of his being, doing so is saying that he with the most Kicks is the strongest, which just isn't true. Superman gets +1 per turn if he plays a Kick, that's nothing to brag about. Animal Man nets +2 Power with a Kick, Punch, and something else, not being reliant on flooding with Kicks, but instead can grab power cards from the Line-Up. There's too many good cards in most any set that out weigh buying a Kick. There are 2 reasons to buy Kicks in a 1v1 game:

1) There is nothing of value on the board.
2) You don't want to add a new card to the Line-Up by buying a card.

At the end of the day, each Kick is another Punch, just stronger and worth VP. But in Classic, Heroes Unite, and Teen Titans, which are all combo based games, there is no reason to flood your deck with a card that does not combo. I've had games where my opponent is snatching up Kicks and Super-Villains, keeping the Line-Up stale and making it hard for me to combo, but if I'm setting up a combo, just watch me pull a single swing turn and win the whole game because of it. How to do it?

Classic: The Riddler + any power boosting play (Man of Steel, Parallax, Clayface, etc.)
Heroes Unite: Kyle Rayner, World's Mightiest Mortal, Teleportation, Trigon (the last 3 can snag Sciencells or Saint Walkers off the top)
Forever Evil: Pandora's Box, Pandora, Royal Flush Gang, Shazam!
Teen Titans: Silent Armor, Teen Titans Go!, Vic Stone (less swing turn, more just high powered turns)
Any game Character cards: Kid Flash, Shazam!

Argument is that Superman yes can start a game off strong and do good things, but at the end of the day it's whether or not you can abuse that game's combos that allows you to win a game consistently. Not every game is gonna have a stale Line-Up that allows you to waste turns buying Kicks and that's what Superman needs.

First, by no means does my saying you should buy early kicks with Superman imply that you should flood your deck with kicks throughout the game, because you shouldn't. The point is that you should prefer them over, say a weak +power card with more late game application like the riddler or a lasso of truth at such an early point in the game. By essentially buying early game Doomsdays for 3 cost, your deck has a higher potential of buying the strong 6-7 comboing heavy hitters that show up before the first super-villain is bought are both applicable early game and necessary late game. Superman wants that early start because he knows that he becomes slightly less relevant late game. I'd say 3-4 Kicks are the most you would want before the first Super-Villain is bought, and this also gives you a good chance to be the guy that gets that villain. It's likely, barring a long string of stale line-ups, that you should never have any more than those 3-4 Kicks at the end of the game. They are for getting that strong lead ahead of your opponents early enough that they'll never catch up.

That was a long first, but second: most heroes depend on the cards in their decks to make combos, not their abilities. Their abilities should structure a playstyle. The cards should drive most of those combos.

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 07:38 AM
For Arrow, on the surface, I feel like most of them are going to classify as "set dependent," because they're all clearly designed to synergize with this one Crossover pack. It's kind of a letdown after the JSA pack because those cards work well independently, whereas these cards really only interact well with each other.

I'll give some brief character breakdowns, however...

Oliver Queen: Probably the best for 2-character given a budding partnership with Harley Quinn, merely because his ability contains the phrase "you may discard a card." He also seems like he would work very well in either Classic or Teen Titans with discard pile interactive equipment like Bat Signal and Lasso of Lightning (Is that what it's called?).

John Diggle: He actually seems fairly good, though he definitely belongs in the Luck-based category. With Defense (much like Booster Gold or Stargirl), he's pretty crazy, and would be disgusting when partnered with either of them. Other than that, strictly utility, but completely worthless without Defense.

Sara Lance: Seems like the worst in the set on paper, as she's merely a slightly reworded Black Canary (Crisis). I'm sure there's more to her than that, but she may be a good partner for Wonder Woman depending on how the "under Super Hero to deck/discard pile" interaction works. If it counts as a gain, then it's a legitimate pairing. If not, she's fairly bottom.

Felicity Smoak: Certifiably bad without Arrow pack cards, and she's difficult to trigger anyway. Could possibly be a great combo with Martian Manhunter, or any other Hero-based character to a smaller extent (Luthor, Hawkman, Saint Walker).

Roy Harper: Easily the most interesting ability in the set, but it requires further application. He's definitely the character that wants to utilize the "put under" mechanic as a way to pseudo-destroy cards, but probably isn't doing enough without it. Also, the inability to acquire big super powers like Super Strength and Shazam will hurt without the Arrow expansion, so he probably falls in line with Felicity to be committed as set-dependent.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 07:41 AM
However, regarding Superman, you can't factor Kicks as the purpose of his being, doing so is saying that he with the most Kicks is the strongest, which just isn't true. Superman gets +1 per turn if he plays a Kick, that's nothing to brag about.

I never implied that whoever has the most kicks is the strongest. That isn't the case. Consider a superman who buys a Kick in his first two turns vs. a player who bought a late-game-application card like the riddler and single draw card. After the shuffle, Superman has the max potential of 8 power on a single turn and also a potential of 5-7 power on TWO DIFFERENT TURNS, where the other player has the potential for a turn of 5 power max. Consider all the times a game-changing 6 or 7 cost card like heat vision or super strength pops up before the first villain is bought. Superman is a super hero with one of the highest potentials of snagging those cards. Along with Cyborg, Aquaman, etc.

Again, I'm conceding on his decreased utility as a part of a two super hero team and that there are super heroes that are better than him in both team and solo formats (Cyborg tromps him), but you can't ignore his strength in a standard game format and you can't ignore the importance of knowing when to buy a Kick early game and when not to.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 09:16 AM
For Arrow, on the surface, I feel like most of them are going to classify as "set dependent," because they're all clearly designed to synergize with this one Crossover pack. It's kind of a letdown after the JSA pack because those cards work well independently, whereas these cards really only interact well with each other.

I'll give some brief character breakdowns, however...

Oliver Queen: Probably the best for 2-character given a budding partnership with Harley Quinn, merely because his ability contains the phrase "you may discard a card." He also seems like he would work very well in either Classic or Teen Titans with discard pile interactive equipment like Bat Signal and Lasso of Lightning (Is that what it's called?).

John Diggle: He actually seems fairly good, though he definitely belongs in the Luck-based category. With Defense (much like Booster Gold or Stargirl), he's pretty crazy, and would be disgusting when partnered with either of them. Other than that, strictly utility, but completely worthless without Defense.

Sara Lance: Seems like the worst in the set on paper, as she's merely a slightly reworded Black Canary (Crisis). I'm sure there's more to her than that, but she may be a good partner for Wonder Woman depending on how the "under Super Hero to deck/discard pile" interaction works. If it counts as a gain, then it's a legitimate pairing. If not, she's fairly bottom.

Felicity Smoak: Certifiably bad without Arrow pack cards, and she's difficult to trigger anyway. Could possibly be a great combo with Martian Manhunter, or any other Hero-based character to a smaller extent (Luthor, Hawkman, Saint Walker).

Roy Harper: Easily the most interesting ability in the set, but it requires further application. He's definitely the character that wants to utilize the "put under" mechanic as a way to pseudo-destroy cards, but probably isn't doing enough without it. Also, the inability to acquire big super powers like Super Strength and Shazam will hurt without the Arrow expansion, so he probably falls in line with Felicity to be committed as set-dependent.

I played one game with this set and it was interesting. I was messing around with the idea of using the under super hero aspect as both a utility to grab cards that I needed when I needed them as well as kind of a second destroy pile that was easier to dump starters into. I'm gonna have to play around with this more, but I don't dislike the set.

One really useful tool I found was an early game purchase of that new card that allows you to put itself as well as the rest of your hand under your super if played first. Good way to "destroy" four starters in one pop.

destroth
07-24-2015, 09:34 AM
I never implied that whoever has the most kicks is the strongest. That isn't the case. Consider a superman who buys a Kick in his first two turns vs. a player who bought a late-game-application card like the riddler and single draw card. After the shuffle, Superman has the max potential of 8 power on a single turn and also a potential of 5-7 power on TWO DIFFERENT TURNS, where the other player has the potential for a turn of 5 power max. Consider all the times a game-changing 6 or 7 cost card like heat vision or super strength pops up before the first villain is bought. Superman is a super hero with one of the highest potentials of snagging those cards. Along with Cyborg, Aquaman, etc.

Again, I'm conceding on his decreased utility as a part of a two super hero team and that there are super heroes that are better than him in both team and solo formats (Cyborg tromps him), but you can't ignore his strength in a standard game format and you can't ignore the importance of knowing when to buy a Kick early game and when not to.

in the end it really depend on the situation.

For me I usually define the capability of a hero depending on the stages in the game (early, mid and end) as well as number of players in play.

Superman is strong early and could be an advantage of the line up has some good high cost card (6 and above) which most likely superman will be able to buy it in his third turn (assuming he bought 2 kicks, he has a potential to possibly build up to 8 power (2 kicks and 3 punches) not many character can do that. But if the line up sux, that it might not make much of a different. So we could say he can be slightly luck driven.

Another factor is the amount of players, aside from FE, the amount of super power in the other sets are scarce and in a 1 v 1 game, the line up proceed too slowly to push any other super power card out... Not to mention that most super power card are awesome that any other player would just buy them, who wouldn't buy super strength, shazam! Heat vision?
But in a 3-5 player game, superman is slightly
More powerful , as most good cards are quickly bought up by other player, superman still has kicks, the chances of him able to get one of the card he need is also slightly higher as the amount of player increaSes.

Overall I still like superman... He was the first character I use and won at it :) just because I manage to get an early super strength thx to my kick. It then kinda snow balled from
There as I end up buying most supervillian.

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 09:48 AM
I played one game with this set and it was interesting. I was messing around with the idea of using the under super hero aspect as both a utility to grab cards that I needed when I needed them as well as kind of a second destroy pile that was easier to dump starters into. I'm gonna have to play around with this more, but I don't dislike the set.

One really useful tool I found was an early game purchase of that new card that allows you to put itself as well as the rest of your hand under your super if played first. Good way to "destroy" four starters in one pop.

My dream scenario right now is to use the Arrow Super Heroes, main deck cards, and Super Villains to combine with the Street Fighter DBG. The mechanics seem like they would flow together very well, permitting you're allowing yourself to bend the rules a little bit.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 10:01 AM
My dream scenario right now is to use the Arrow Super Heroes, main deck cards, and Super Villains to combine with the Street Fighter DBG. The mechanics seem like they would flow together very well, permitting you're allowing yourself to bend the rules a little bit.

This was one of the first things I thought of when I saw the theme for the Arrow Crossover set. However, if you look at the stickied thread about card clarifications, there is mention of the cards that are sent under your super hero from the Atrocitous super villain. The ruling is that those cards are separated from the cards that are put under your super hero from anything in the Arrow set. This makes me think that cards like the USA location in Street Fighter would also be separated to prevent a constant stream of free cost cards.

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 11:39 AM
This was one of the first things I thought of when I saw the theme for the Arrow Crossover set. However, if you look at the stickied thread about card clarifications, there is mention of the cards that are sent under your super hero from the Atrocitous super villain. The ruling is that those cards are separated from the cards that are put under your super hero from anything in the Arrow set. This makes me think that cards like the USA location in Street Fighter would also be separated to prevent a constant stream of free cost cards.

Hence why I said "bend the rules." It's not something I would do on the constant, but it still bothers me because Street Fighter has SO many cards that are synergistic to the Super Heroes in Arrow, i.e. Red Cyclone, Sodom, Electric Thunder, etc.

I also wouldn't exactly allow players to buy cards underneath their Super Hero like they can in Street Fighter. I'm not exactly willing to go that far, lol. I just think Street Fighter is a natural fit due to the overall increase to the inherent mechanic of Arrow. Plus it just has really busted cards that I miss playing like Psycho Crusher, Seth, and Tandem Engine.

MStreva89
07-24-2015, 12:02 PM
I understand you're not implying to buy an insane amount of Kicks, but how can you compare a few good early game turns of Superman to any Character who can consistently snatch up a Super-Villain/Hero and more in mid-late turns? It's true that you can have a turn with up to 8 Power as Superman if turn 1 and 2 were spent buying Kicks, but let's be honest, what did you just let your opponent get from the Line-Up?

You mentioned a draw card (Kid Flash) and The Riddler. First things first, never pass up on The Riddler unless you're looking to get swiftly roundhouse kicked straight out of the game. I've LITERALLY bought the entire main deck with The Riddler by using a Parallax + Clayface turn. So let's never call The Riddler a card to sleep on, ever.

But if you're claiming that you can have up to 8 Power with Superman, what does your opponent have? You're just naming numbers and Superman without comparing him to your opponent's Character(s) at all. A Wonder Woman who bought a Poison Ivy turn 1 or 2 is better than a Superman netting a Kick turn 1-2, all day errrday. Now are you gonna let a Wonder Woman snatch up Ivy who can essentially ruin your early game completely by grabbing a Kick or are you going to cut her and not go towards your own Character by letting the beautiful (not always) 5 card Line-Up be an all-you-can-eat buffet for your opponent?

My point on this issue is that yes Kicks with Superman are good, but if you don't see other Super Powers, he is a +1 Character. Now you have decent early game power turns, but by doing so, you pass up on 1-2 turns of Line-Up cards. Just saying, there's a reason Line-Up cards don't have a stack, they are generally worth WAY more than a Kick ever will be.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 12:07 PM
I understand you're not implying to buy an insane amount of Kicks, but how can you compare a few good early game turns of Superman to any Character who can consistently snatch up a Super-Villain/Hero and more in mid-late turns? It's true that you can have a turn with up to 8 Power as Superman if turn 1 and 2 were spent buying Kicks, but let's be honest, what did you just let your opponent get from the Line-Up?

You mentioned a draw card (Kid Flash) and The Riddler. First things first, never pass up on The Riddler unless you're looking to get swiftly roundhouse kicked straight out of the game. I've LITERALLY bought the entire main deck with The Riddler by using a Parallax + Clayface turn. So let's never call The Riddler a card to sleep on, ever.

But if you're claiming that you can have up to 8 Power with Superman, what does your opponent have? You're just naming numbers and Superman without comparing him to your opponent's Character(s) at all. A Wonder Woman who bought a Poison Ivy turn 1 or 2 is better than a Superman netting a Kick turn 1-2, all day errrday. Now are you gonna let a Wonder Woman snatch up Ivy who can essentially ruin your early game completely by grabbing a Kick or are you going to cut her and not go towards your own Character by letting the beautiful (not always) 5 card Line-Up be an all-you-can-eat buffet for your opponent?

My point on this issue is that yes Kicks with Superman are good, but if you don't see other Super Powers, he is a +1 Character. Now you have decent early game power turns, but by doing so, you pass up on 1-2 turns of Line-Up cards. Just saying, there's a reason Line-Up cards don't have a stack, they are generally worth WAY more than a Kick ever will be.

I flatly disagree with most of your logic and feel you are looking past some of mine, agree to disagree, I'm sorry.

That being said, I would love to play with you if an online digital version of this game ever came out. One of the traits of a lesser known hard copy card game like this one is drastically different metas in different areas of the country. Our metas sound very different than each others' and I'd be very interested to actually compare the two someday

MStreva89
07-24-2015, 12:27 PM
I'd happily test my meta against yours. I would gladly put my money where my mouth is to show my confidence in my logic. Where you at regionally? South Florida myself. (Not issuing this as like a huge challenge or bet, just curious and claiming my stake :cool:)

I'll tell you this much, a lot of people think highly of certain Characters when looking to play against myself or some of my friends, but they quickly lose their mindset once a display of synergy is shown between Characters, cards, or sets.

LRoq617
07-24-2015, 01:50 PM
Ladies, calm down. You're both pretty. :D

I actually do have a legit question, since I haven't played 2-character variant before: Does Constantine pair well with anyone other than Shazam? I see he's ranked fairly high, but I can't think of anyone else that he would pair well with.

EDIT: I guess you can add Aquaman to that list as well, now that I think about it.

jakecav18
07-24-2015, 01:51 PM
Admittedly, most of the difference is likely from our game preferences. My usual games are 1v1 single hero in which we do not traditionally combine different large sets. This is a big reason why we really really liked Street Fighter. We've grown to understand our meta so much that the winner is usually decided by luck of the draw. Or whoever gets the Man of Steel type blowout card.

I'm in northern Ohio, no such luck

Also, to be entirely clear, Superman is not my Hero of choice, nor is he my favorite in the classic set. I usually just draw a random one, but some of my favorites for single play are Aquaman, Constantine, Starfire (Heroes), Bizarro, and Sinestro.

destroth
07-24-2015, 02:28 PM
I understand you're not implying to buy an insane amount of Kicks, but how can you compare a few good early game turns of Superman to any Character who can consistently snatch up a Super-Villain/Hero and more in mid-late turns? It's true that you can have a turn with up to 8 Power as Superman if turn 1 and 2 were spent buying Kicks, but let's be honest, what did you just let your opponent get from the Line-Up?

You mentioned a draw card (Kid Flash) and The Riddler. First things first, never pass up on The Riddler unless you're looking to get swiftly roundhouse kicked straight out of the game. I've LITERALLY bought the entire main deck with The Riddler by using a Parallax + Clayface turn. So let's never call The Riddler a card to sleep on, ever.

But if you're claiming that you can have up to 8 Power with Superman, what does your opponent have? You're just naming numbers and Superman without comparing him to your opponent's Character(s) at all. A Wonder Woman who bought a Poison Ivy turn 1 or 2 is better than a Superman netting a Kick turn 1-2, all day errrday. Now are you gonna let a Wonder Woman snatch up Ivy who can essentially ruin your early game completely by grabbing a Kick or are you going to cut her and not go towards your own Character by letting the beautiful (not always) 5 card Line-Up be an all-you-can-eat buffet for your opponent?

My point on this issue is that yes Kicks with Superman are good, but if you don't see other Super Powers, he is a +1 Character. Now you have decent early game power turns, but by doing so, you pass up on 1-2 turns of Line-Up cards. Just saying, there's a reason Line-Up cards don't have a stack, they are generally worth WAY more than a Kick ever will be.

Which is why I mentioned that it depends on the starting line up, what if your against batman and there is hero, villian and no equipment ? Or even there is , just lasso of truth? Same goes to Wonder Woman, what if there is just cheetah on the board Or Harley Quinn, clayface, penguin, riddler, even poison ivy may not be that good at the start 3-turns, but I do agree poison ivy is a nuisance !

In fact if there the line up was good , I as superman would probably buy it as well. What we are trying to argue is that if nothing else is available , we still have kick. I am sure we all have bought some kicks with Wonder Woman and batman.

Cyborg is definitely better that superman if kicks are the concern.

Aside that, you got to see pass the fact there are more playing style than just 1v1 ... The combos you mentioned is difficult to pull in a multiplayer game... The chances of you getting parallax, clayface and riddler ? In a 5 player game, that's like close to impossible!
Also in a single character game there is just more limitation to the things you can do... The amount of power you build up is less and lesser draw... Lesser power in general, doesn't give u the privilege to buy anything u want every turn. Missing +1 or extra draw due to having a second character, can result in not defeating the super villians and can also mean buying more rubbish into our deck.

destroth
07-24-2015, 02:34 PM
Ladies, calm down. You're both pretty. :D

I actually do have a legit question, since I haven't played 2-character variant before: Does Constantine pair well with anyone other than Shazam? I see he's ranked fairly high, but I can't think of anyone else that he would pair well with.

EDIT: I guess you can add Aquaman to that list as well, now that I think about it.


U should definitely try 2 hero variant , is fun... The game faster as well, more chances of combos, synergy.... I think Constantine can be good with mr terrific too, discard a punch draw an equipment, put a hero/super power/villian as the next card and destroy it with Constantine.

Alan scott maybe, draw the cost 0 card until u hit a wall then use constNtine to break through it. But for Alan Scott to be any good I think u need power of the red (crisis 1).

gerrymul
07-24-2015, 04:23 PM
I would venture Constantine pairs well with Deathstroke from FE

destroth
07-24-2015, 06:23 PM
I would venture Constantine pairs well with Deathstroke from FE

Bane can be fun :).

MStreva89
07-25-2015, 04:52 AM
I pretty much exclusively play 2 Character 1v1 since it provides a good game without hampering your games for having 1 bad Character.

Also, Constatine and Deathstroke does not work as the card is not destroyed until the end of turn.

Constantine has Shazam!, but he does work well with others on occasion. But just due to his Shazam! Partnership, he's too good. Same goes for Aquaman (Crisis) and Bizarro.

LRoq617
07-25-2015, 06:02 AM
I pretty much exclusively play 2 Character 1v1 since it provides a good game without hampering your games for having 1 bad Character.

Also, Constatine and Deathstroke does not work as the card is not destroyed until the end of turn.

Constantine has Shazam!, but he does work well with others on occasion. But just due to his Shazam! Partnership, he's too good. Same goes for Aquaman (Crisis) and Bizarro.

Bane/Constantine seems pretty sweet, actually. Also, yeah, I recall the Aquaman (Crisis)/Bizarro interaction. It's pretty degenerate once you have a destroy card.

So here's my question... how does the drafting system work exactly? I'm considering trying out the 2-character variant, but right now, my first instinct was to just give everyone 4 characters, just 2 of them for the best synergy, and that's your team. A draft variation would likely work out better, but I also want a viable option for when only 2 players get to play.

MStreva89
07-25-2015, 08:58 AM
My friend group exclusively plays 1v1 as we come from competitive scenes. Here is how we play 1v1 exactly:

1) Dice roll to determine who gets initiative.
2) Player 1 strikes a base set (Classic, Heroes Unite, Forever Evil, Teen Titans), then Player 2 strikes one.
3) Player 1 then picks one of the 2 sets to be played for Game 1.
4) Player 1 bans a Character from the pool of Characters. Player 2 bans a Character. Repeat step until both players have banned 4 Characters each.
5) Player 1 picks a Character. Player 2 picks 2 Characters. Player 1 picks his last Character.
6) Players roll for who goes first in game unless The Flash is present. If The Flash and The Flash Crisis are present, it becomes a dice roll again.
7) After Game 1, all Characters and base set used are now banned. The loser of the game becomes Player 1 and determines base set to be played for Game 2. Players then receive 1 ban a piece starting with Player 1.
8) Player 1 picks a Character. Player 2 picks 2 Characters. Player 1 picks his last Character.
9) Game 2 allows Player 1 to go first unless The Flash is present.
10) After the game, repeat same clean-up method for Game 1 and if Game 2 is necessary, repeat Step 7 thru 9.

LRoq617
07-25-2015, 09:07 AM
My friend group exclusively plays 1v1 as we come from competitive scenes. Here is how we play 1v1 exactly:

1) Dice roll to determine who gets initiative.
2) Player 1 strikes a base set (Classic, Heroes Unite, Forever Evil, Teen Titans), then Player 2 strikes one.
3) Player 1 then picks one of the 2 sets to be played for Game 1.
4) Player 1 bans a Character from the pool of Characters. Player 2 bans a Character. Repeat step until both players have banned 4 Characters each.
5) Player 1 picks a Character. Player 2 picks 2 Characters. Player 1 picks his last Character.
6) Players roll for who goes first in game unless The Flash is present. If The Flash and The Flash Crisis are present, it becomes a dice roll again.
7) After Game 1, all Characters and base set used are now banned. The loser of the game becomes Player 1 and determines base set to be played for Game 2. Players then receive 1 ban a piece starting with Player 1.
8) Player 1 picks a Character. Player 2 picks 2 Characters. Player 1 picks his last Character.
9) Game 2 allows Player 1 to go first unless The Flash is present.
10) After the game, repeat same clean-up method for Game 1 and if Game 2 is necessary, repeat Step 7 thru 9.

Sounds cool. Do you have a way to factor in smaller subsets like Crisis, Rivals, or Crossover similarly to the base sets? And how are Super Villains determined? Do you only use the SVs that correspond to the given set? If so, where does that leave Felix Faust?

Also, I'm still trying my damndest to figure out Kid Flash as a character per his strengths. His ability seems sweet, since he basically lets you play a better version of Ascension, but aside from Teen Titans, I'm not seeing any other great sets for him since it has so many cheap cards that can allow you to chain together so easily. Maybe the base set if you get a huge power gain card like Man of Steel or Parallax?

StormKing
07-25-2015, 04:15 PM
Sounds cool. Do you have a way to factor in smaller subsets like Crisis, Rivals, or Crossover similarly to the base sets? And how are Super Villains determined? Do you only use the SVs that correspond to the given set? If so, where does that leave Felix Faust?

Also, I'm still trying my damndest to figure out Kid Flash as a character per his strengths. His ability seems sweet, since he basically lets you play a better version of Ascension, but aside from Teen Titans, I'm not seeing any other great sets for him since it has so many cheap cards that can allow you to chain together so easily. Maybe the base set if you get a huge power gain card like Man of Steel or Parallax?

He's very much meant for the player confident enough in their deck-building and decision making skills that they feel they don't need extra power/card draw/etc to go off. Just like you said with cards like Man of Steel and Parallax, there are definitely games where you have more power than you know what to do with. Even times when you have 6 power but you really want to buy that Nth Metal or Super Speed. Also, cards that outright gain like Orange Lantern Power Ring or Cheetah are great with him.

MStreva89
07-25-2015, 05:39 PM
Felix Faust is not included into any game as he's too powerful and didn't exactly land with a set. We use the Super-Villains per the base set. And no we don't use any non-base set cards when we play this way, but obviously do what you want with the idea.

MStreva89
07-28-2015, 07:53 AM
Funny comment here for jakecav18, 2 of the guys in my play group have been picking Superman and Suberboy in Game 3 (Generally ends up being the Heroes Unite game) as they want to grab an early Force Field and then spam Superboy every turn with a Kick that now draws a card and gives +2 Power (essentially).

So far, 100% of the games they attempt this, they get a Force Field in the first 10 turns without any chance of opposition to it.

jakecav18
07-28-2015, 11:23 AM
Funny comment here for jakecav18, 2 of the guys in my play group have been picking Superman and Suberboy in Game 3 (Generally ends up being the Heroes Unite game) as they want to grab an early Force Field and then spam Superboy every turn with a Kick that now draws a card and gives +2 Power (essentially).

So far, 100% of the games they attempt this, they get a Force Field in the first 10 turns without any chance of opposition to it.

One thing I've noticed is that if we ever play the first two sets now (they are probably our two most played sets because college ended right after college ended and we moved away from each other) they are usually blowout games due to one game changing card coming up in the lineup at the right time and getting immediately bought and then the landslide commencing. I usually get beat in FE because its so fundamentally different from the first two sets. My buddy came from a competitive card playing background, so he adjusted to it much more quickly than I did. I'm catching on with it though. Can't really tell who has the upper hand with TT yet.

We used to try two hero variants, but they never worked quite right. We tried just a base set and normal amount of villains, and that game just flew by way too quickly for us. Then we tried adding two stacks of villains together, and then most games just ended with the main deck running out. We tried two whole base sets and two stacks of villains then the games took way too long. We just kept Goldilocksing until we gave up with the concept entirely unfortunately. What we wanted was a similar game length of a single hero single game with occassional games in which the game ended by buying the whole main deck. Basically, the feel of a single hero single set 1v1 game.

LRoq617
07-28-2015, 11:33 AM
Funny comment here for jakecav18, 2 of the guys in my play group have been picking Superman and Suberboy in Game 3 (Generally ends up being the Heroes Unite game) as they want to grab an early Force Field and then spam Superboy every turn with a Kick that now draws a card and gives +2 Power (essentially).

So far, 100% of the games they attempt this, they get a Force Field in the first 10 turns without any chance of opposition to it.

Seems kind of unrealistic, but also fairly disgusting. Maybe try the same thing with Wonder Girl + Batman/Nightwing/Cyborg in Teen Titans with a Detonator? Too bad it wouldn't be as consistent as "dur dur, buy a Kick, hur dur."

LRoq617
07-28-2015, 11:42 AM
Sorry, double post. :(

MStreva89
07-29-2015, 08:37 AM
Oh, completely unrealistic! But somehow, that combo has won every single game lol.

SkyClawX
08-18-2015, 10:03 PM
Kid Flash!

BenJazz
08-19-2015, 06:39 AM
Where do people think Felicity Smoak is on the tier list?

LRoq617
08-19-2015, 11:13 AM
Where do people think Felicity Smoak is on the tier list?

She's definitely the best Arrow character, but may be a little slow to compete with some of the top tier characters like Aquaman or Cyborg. In 2v2, she's gotta have some insane synergy with characters like Indigo-1 and especially Martian Manhunter.

LRoq617
09-11-2015, 04:24 AM
I finally got to try the 2-character variation this past week with a friend of mine. It was... interesting. We ended up playing Heroes Unite. I ended up with Martian Manhunter/Indigo-1 and him with Cyborg/Nightwing. Very close game with him winning by only 2 points (made a minor play error + lost 2 VPs on an Amazo First Appearance). We played a few more games to try to get the hang of the draft system, and I feel like it works out pretty well for the most part. I'm also enjoying how conducive each set is to different strategies. For example, I'd still ban Harley Quinn in any set just due to character synergy, but Bizarro/Crisis Aquaman only seems truly absurd in Forever Evil due to the abundance of trash cards.

MStreva89, have you had a chance to try out Skitter or the Arrow characters with this variant yet?

MStreva89
09-11-2015, 06:52 AM
I finally got to try the 2-character variation this past week with a friend of mine. It was... interesting. We ended up playing Heroes Unite. I ended up with Martian Manhunter/Indigo-1 and him with Cyborg/Nightwing. Very close game with him winning by only 2 points (made a minor play error + lost 2 VPs on an Amazo First Appearance). We played a few more games to try to get the hang of the draft system, and I feel like it works out pretty well for the most part. I'm also enjoying how conducive each set is to different strategies. For example, I'd still ban Harley Quinn in any set just due to character synergy, but Bizarro/Crisis Aquaman only seems truly absurd in Forever Evil due to the abundance of trash cards.

MStreva89, have you had a chance to try out Skitter or the Arrow characters with this variant yet?

LRoq617, you are pretty spot on with the games and plays. Harley Quinn rarely makes it past the initial banning phase, but can if the game used has stronger Characters to be picked. And yes, Bizarro + Aquaman Crisis is really only a threat in Forever Evil, but Bizarro alone is too strong in that game so he generally eats the ban. (A friend of mine tried banning Aquaman Crisis thinking Bizarro wasn't strong enough... he hasn't made that mistake again.)

And yes a friend of mine got a Skitter off eBay and the Arrow Characters have been tested here and there.

Basically the only thing from Arrow is the Oliver Queen + Roy Harper combo in Classic and Forever Evil where you can have a HUGE early game upswing to start winning immediately. A friend of mine grabbed Constructs of Fear and Transmutation in the first 2 turns to basically seal the game. In Classic its for the Heat Visions and Super Strengths to get high power early on. The rest of the Arrow Characters are a bit underwhelming and don't provide enough power or scare tactic to get the game rolling.

Skitter is strong, but really only good in Teen Titans, but kinda not ban worthy since she does require more setup and not enough bonus.

LRoq617
09-11-2015, 09:45 AM
LRoq617, you are pretty spot on with the games and plays. Harley Quinn rarely makes it past the initial banning phase, but can if the game used has stronger Characters to be picked. And yes, Bizarro + Aquaman Crisis is really only a threat in Forever Evil, but Bizarro alone is too strong in that game so he generally eats the ban. (A friend of mine tried banning Aquaman Crisis thinking Bizarro wasn't strong enough... he hasn't made that mistake again.)

And yes a friend of mine got a Skitter off eBay and the Arrow Characters have been tested here and there.

Basically the only thing from Arrow is the Oliver Queen + Roy Harper combo in Classic and Forever Evil where you can have a HUGE early game upswing to start winning immediately. A friend of mine grabbed Constructs of Fear and Transmutation in the first 2 turns to basically seal the game. In Classic its for the Heat Visions and Super Strengths to get high power early on. The rest of the Arrow Characters are a bit underwhelming and don't provide enough power or scare tactic to get the game rolling.

Skitter is strong, but really only good in Teen Titans, but kinda not ban worthy since she does require more setup and not enough bonus.

That's pretty much what I figured with Skitter, but that also seems to be the case with most of the Teen Titans characters. The only exceptions to this rule are Kid Flash and Beast Boy, whom are good no matter what.

The Oliver/Roy combo does seem disgusting, and I hadn't thought about that. I was able to obtain similar synergy in a 1-character game of Heroes Unite where I was just playing Oliver after buying Collapsible Staff to stuff cards like Black Lantern Corps and Bronze Tiger under my Super Hero for access on the following turn.

I could also see Oliver + Sara Lance working in a similar fashion, though not nearly as effective since it takes up your entire turn, not to mention that it's arguably unnecessary based on the state of the game. Plus, Sara Lance is terrible.

MStreva89
09-21-2015, 12:40 PM
Yeah, the Oliver Queen + Roy Harper combo in our group is pretty much a threat worthy of ban in Classic, Forever Evil or Teen Titans. Just too many powerful Super Powers that can easily tip the game in your favor if snatched up for free.

We've been testing so many combos and synergies, that many powerful Characters have made it thru the banning phase.

LRoq617
10-12-2015, 04:28 AM
I just picked up Legion of Super Heroes this past Friday. We only got to play 1-character games, but I'm still going over the interactions and synergy for 2-character mode. Here are some obvious standouts:

Cosmic Boy / Saturn Girl: Both seem to combine very well with Batman-12 from Rivals 1. You only need one card type in order to snag other (assuming there's one in the lineup) and then your ability goes from there.

Lightning Lad: Similar to the 2 above, though without the Batman synergy and probably works better with someone like Joker-12 or Black Canary.

Phantom Girl: Probably the best character in the set as long as you're playing with the Legion of Super Heroes cards, and most likely a ban-worthy inclusion. She just does too many gross things for too many characters.

Chameleon Boy / Braniac 5: Both very solid, but they also have very obvious Harley Quinn synergy. She almost always gets banned anyway, so it's probably not incredibly relevant.

GuruGuru214
10-12-2015, 09:56 AM
I'll have to play a bit more before I can comment on the rest, but I do have one standout combo from Legion to mention.

My group has only played one two headed game with Legion so far, and DIsForDoom played Phantom Girl with Harley Quinn. He went first, and drew five Punches. He discarded one to activate Time Travel on Cosmic King from the Line-Up, then drew for Harley Quinn and got another Punch. Between the 2 Power from Cosmic King, 1 from Phantom Girl, and 5 from the Punches, he pulled 8 Power on the first turn of the game and bought the Super-Villain.

I couldn't keep pace with Cosmic Boy and Wonder Girl, while Chameleon Boy/Bizarro didn't do too bad.

MStreva89
10-12-2015, 10:45 AM
My playgroup doesn't incorporate the Crossover pack Main Deck cards at all, so Phantom Girl and Brainiac 5 are borderline useless in our games. Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lighting Lad have their uses of being able to ramp fairly quickly, while Chameleon Boy really can shine if allowed to keep access to certain cards in the Line-Up.

None of them feel overpowered however, but the Batman (12) concept has not be tested yet in our group. I can see it doing wonders in Classic.

LRoq617
10-13-2015, 04:43 AM
My playgroup doesn't incorporate the Crossover pack Main Deck cards at all, so Phantom Girl and Brainiac 5 are borderline useless in our games. Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lighting Lad have their uses of being able to ramp fairly quickly, while Chameleon Boy really can shine if allowed to keep access to certain cards in the Line-Up.

None of them feel overpowered however, but the Batman (12) concept has not be tested yet in our group. I can see it doing wonders in Classic.

Braniac 5 still has some use. There are plenty of bombs in Classic that his ability can pick up, i.e. Fastest Man Alive, King of Atlantis, Scarecrow. Also, in Heroes Unite, he's a heavy abuser of the Starbolt engine, as well as Power Rings.

MStreva89
10-13-2015, 07:07 AM
The issue with Brainiac 5 is that in comparison to Beast Boy, there's no comparison. You trade 2 cards for one, if that card isn't game changing, it's meaningless. Now in the event you get a boss card like Scarecrow or King of Atlantis in the first few turns, yeah he can easily win a game by non-stop playing it, but this is all luck based with the flop.

LexLuthorJr
10-13-2015, 02:42 PM
We played a game with Forever Evil the other day and Brainiac 5 won handily. I constantly used his ability to get back Royal Flush Gang and played multiple copies to rack up a ton of VP. Never even bought a Super Villain.

MStreva89
10-14-2015, 06:07 AM
Games like that will happen, but overall he's not to be considered a true threat since he's going to be luck based. I mean, an early game Transmutation can do the exact same thing and allow you to make an extremely overpowered deck, but it's too chancy to be considered a power Character.

LRoq617
10-14-2015, 06:20 AM
The issue with Brainiac 5 is that in comparison to Beast Boy, there's no comparison. You trade 2 cards for one, if that card isn't game changing, it's meaningless. Now in the event you get a boss card like Scarecrow or King of Atlantis in the first few turns, yeah he can easily win a game by non-stop playing it, but this is all luck based with the flop.

That's true, and you're right. There's no reason to compare him to Beast Boy, ever. But Beast Boy is also insane, arguably a top 5 in 2-character mode.

LRoq617
01-13-2016, 06:44 AM
Any updates to this list with the addition of Watchmen? My guesses are as follows:

Comedian: Probably the most overpowered character in the set, and downright gross if paired with someone like Martian Manhunter or Indigo-1. 100% ban worthy.

Rorschach: Solid griefing ability, but only exceptionally powerful when paired with Harley Quinn, who usually gets banned anyway.

Dr. Manhattan: Combos well with Superman to ensure the drawing of more Super Powers, but also a good dark horse partner for Deathstroke.

Ozymandias: I love this ability, but can't really determine great synergy with it without pairing him with someone who also struggles like Saint Walker.

Silk Spectre: Nice synergy with Red Tornado, but other than that, she's probably just a niche partner for Hero based characters like (the aforementioned) Martian Manhunter, Felicity Smoak, or Hawkman. Arguably the worst character in the set?

Nite Owl: Deck stacking for Equipment character partners... with not a lot else going on.