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View Full Version : Expert Judge Test - woo yay



strawdonkey
01-15-2011, 05:53 AM
Great news - the Level 2/Expert Judge Test (http://worlds2010.wowtcg.com/articles/2011/01/14/online-expert-judge-certification) is now available online!

However, you're probably not allowed to take it just yet - you need a recommendation from an existing Expert Judge or a member of SI:7 (the meaning of which still hasn't been explained to the best of my knowledge; I know Simon Key and demonfae are members though).

This causes one or two logistical problems for some people. For instance, I'm in the UK, and in the UK I'm pretty sure there are no existing Expert Judges or members of SI:7. To get a recommendation, it is suggested "in most cases" you work an event or two with an existing Judge so they can make sure you're up to the task.

In some areas that's not feasible, but the restrictions are in place for a very good reason. What should the people with no local Expert Judges to work with or be recommended by be doing to further their judging careers?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on the quantity of judges in the UK, it was just used as an example :)

nekoangel
01-15-2011, 07:31 AM
well i spoke to a french judge that said he would recomend a friend of mine with sufficient evidence of his level of judging

demonfae
01-15-2011, 09:09 AM
Applying to work a larger event may be your best bet if there are no judges in your area with at least Expert certification. All DMF and higher level events will have someone who can recommend you to take the Expert test. You may also be able to get in touch with a high-level judge over on that side of the water who may be willing to work with you to overcome the distance obstacle.

martinezjkind
01-15-2011, 09:35 AM
Also remember that with higher level of judging , you need to keep up with requirements of types of tourneys you run .

Argynt
01-15-2011, 09:37 AM
Film an event you judged and provide that to them? Don't edit it in any way, though! I am sure it will mostly be boring to watch (second hand with no commentary such thing usually are anyway), but ask if any applicible Judges would watach and critique/recomend you. Just an idea.

Eigen
01-15-2011, 11:44 AM
Would an expert or higher level judge be able to give any insight into what makes these tests harder? I read the official documentation, and obviously it would be a breach of protocal to reveal actual questions. But are the questions more oblique situations, tricky, or just very specific? How would a wannabe Expert study or prepare for the test?

demonfae
01-15-2011, 11:52 AM
The questions on higher-level judge tests become more technical. Where the Journeyman test is about the basics of the game, the Expert test covers more detailed, or, if you prefer, "very specific" rules. Read over the comprehensive rules and tournament policy, including the various appendixes.

Zalmek
01-16-2011, 12:41 AM
Reading something and seeing it in events are two different things because the same ruling could apply (ect). As for me, I am a visual learner and I like to ask questions about something I am unsure on. Where I live, there are no level 2 or higher judges so it's hard to find someone to "study" with. The only place I will be able to take the test is at Realm Championships, but I'd rather play than shadow someone when i worked to get the points to get in. As for SI:7, it is a cult that meets at Simon's house for pizza and raids on undisclosed dates.

Patrigan
01-16-2011, 01:31 AM
Reading something and seeing it in events are two different things because the same ruling could apply (ect). As for me, I am a visual learner and I like to ask questions about something I am unsure on. Where I live, there are no level 2 or higher judges so it's hard to find someone to "study" with. The only place I will be able to take the test is at Realm Championships, but I'd rather play than shadow someone when i worked to get the points to get in. As for SI:7, it is a cult that meets at Simon's house for pizza and raids on undisclosed dates.

Even though level 2 judges in every region are needed, if you'd rather play than judge, then I'm not sure becoming an expert judge is something you should do. Especially Realm Championship events.

Gnimsh
01-16-2011, 07:35 AM
Even though level 2 judges in every region are needed, if you'd rather play than judge, then I'm not sure becoming an expert judge is something you should do. Especially Realm Championship events.

Passing Lvl2 test will require a person to have a good knowledge about the rules. If he passes that he will be marked as a person who can answer difficult rules questions. Even if such a person prefers playing in tournaments he can always be asked by the TO to help with the ruling, or situation. The final call will be up to TO. As mentioned on the other topic TO's might often be judge lvl 0, or judge lvl 1 and not an active wow player, so having a lvl2/3 judge on the board offering guidance will increase the standards on the event. Don't you think so?

Patrigan
01-16-2011, 10:04 AM
Passing Lvl2 test will require a person to have a good knowledge about the rules. If he passes that he will be marked as a person who can answer difficult rules questions. Even if such a person prefers playing in tournaments he can always be asked by the TO to help with the ruling, or situation. The final call will be up to TO. As mentioned on the other topic TO's might often be judge lvl 0, or judge lvl 1 and not an active wow player, so having a lvl2/3 judge on the board offering guidance will increase the standards on the event. Don't you think so?

I disagree. In fact, I think the situation as you stated would downgrade the standards. Not having a dedicated judge in RQ and higher means that there's more downtime when a ruling has to be made. More downtime = low tournament quality.

There are plenty of knowledgeable persons out there that will probably never go above level 1 (even right here on this forum). Does that mean their input is invalid? Quite the contrary even.

The judge program is meant for actual judges, not for gouging knowledge. A CZE (or SI:7) member has already clearly stated that gouging knowledge is the wrong reason the do the level 2.



Expert judges are expected to work at least one qualifier-level or higher event every six months in addition to the journeyman judge requirements. Tournament organizers in the candidate’s area will look to expert judges when staffing sneak previews, qualifiers, and regional championship level events.

The fact that an expert is REQUIRED to judge at least 1 Qualifier level or higher is another proof that only people intending to judge should take the level 2. TOs need to be able to actually staff their events with expert judges. If an expert judge declines to judge, because he wants to play, then the TO should look for some other judge.

soulzek
01-16-2011, 11:55 AM
I have just recently helped judge a RQ in Feralas. I will also be attending DMF Orlando as a volunteer (judge/admini don't know yet). I am confident in my rules knowledge and would like to take the level 2 test. I am nearby LordMagnus but I do not know if he is still level 1 or 2, but I do know he judged the last realm champs that was at Cool Stuff Games. Would anyone be willing to recommend me for this online test?

Patrigan
01-16-2011, 01:01 PM
I have just recently helped judge a RQ in Feralas. I will also be attending DMF Orlando as a volunteer (judge/admini don't know yet). I am confident in my rules knowledge and would like to take the level 2 test. I am nearby LordMagnus but I do not know if he is still level 1 or 2, but I do know he judged the last realm champs that was at Cool Stuff Games. Would anyone be willing to recommend me for this online test?

If you are attending Orlando as a judge, ask the HJ (or another present level 2 or higher judge) to watch you.

demonfae
01-16-2011, 06:41 PM
If you are attending Orlando as a judge, ask the HJ (or another present level 2 or higher judge) to watch you.

This. There will be plenty of judges at DMF Orlando who can observe you and make a recommendation for the Expert test. Find me at the event and we can chat about it. Also, LordMagnus is at least Expert level, so if you've worked with him he might be willing to recommend you for the test before Orlando.

Toad
01-17-2011, 07:55 AM
This causes one or two logistical problems for some people. For instance, I'm in the UK, and in the UK I'm pretty sure there are no existing Expert Judges or members of SI:7. To get a recommendation, it is suggested "in most cases" you work an event or two with an existing Judge so they can make sure you're up to the task.
As I said the other day to another UK Judge/player, there are always ways to get recommendations even if you cannot physically judge with a level 2 or higher. If you are interested in testing for level 2, feel free to send me a PM where you describe your previous judging history and why would want to be a level 2 Judge (hint: "I want to evaluate my rules knowledge" is not a good answer), along with your mail adress, and we can discuss a bit.

If you can make it to the World Cup, you will also have plenty opportunities to test for level 2 here, and some of the level 5 Judges will be there.

Regarding UK specifically, if you were judging with UDE before, then you could talk with Rob Hooley. If Rob recommends you as a level 2, then you'd have my own recommendation on the website.