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View Full Version : PVE Slow vs. Fast Decks & Dungeon Rewards



hitchslap88
07-31-2015, 03:30 PM
I'm sure I'm not the first to bring this up, but I'm concerned that very few people will feel incentivized to play slower deck archetypes once main PVE launches. No one serious about making progress in the game brings a slow deck to Arena currently, and if the campaign does nothing differently, I can't see cards like King Gabriel, The Kraken, or anything higher than 4 cost ever making it into a deck. As much as I love Orcs and Dwarfs, I'd like to play something more involved without feeling like I'm robbing myself.

There could be many ways to incentivize slower decks. It could be done through Character Talents like the one we've just seen previewed today for the Orc Warrior. Instead of providing a passive loot benefit, though, it could be tied to playing more expensive cards. For example:

TALENT:Herald of the Mighty: Every time you play a card with cost 4 or greater in a dungeon, increase your loot by 1%

It could also be a Double-Back unlock. "Every time this card is cast in a dungeon, increase your loot by 1%." This should be a relatively rare effect, but if it's only found on high-cost cards it creates the proper incentive.

Simply put, if aggro decks are able to grind dungeons faster, slow decks need to get more loot per dungeon.

Do you agree? Are there more, better ways to do this?

Vorsa
07-31-2015, 03:50 PM
It is going to be a challenge to slow the game down, as you can't simply have the AI hose troops with cards like Sorrow & Heatwave - slow decks (e.g. Inspire, Shift) tend to rely on building up a foundation of squishy troops too.

However; I do expect that 'proper' PvE will be slower simply by virtue of alternative win conditions e.g. destroying 8 Kraken tentacles in the Kraken's Gold dungeon example - aggro decks presumably won't fare as well in protracted battles, where dealing 20 damage on turn 3-4 doesn't end the match.

Yoss
07-31-2015, 03:56 PM
I resonate with the complaint, but I do not have a solution.

My first guess is add a function of "if you win on Turn X, you get more loot than if you win on Turn X-1". Do not tie it to card costs. However, I would bet there's a way to abuse just about any system we invent.

ksetrat
07-31-2015, 04:05 PM
I tend to agree with the second paragraph for Vorsa. Those alt win cons are going to be a trick to get through.

Those alt win cons can have a large amount of flexibility. Ex; some B/R adept sorcerer who only has a 40 card deck compared to your 60, the wincon is to survive until he decks out.

my ruby aggro deck that i use in arena? would get decimated fairly quick i would assume as there aren't any big things in there to hold off larger attacks. my only hope would be the fact that i have 4 ragefire in there. hope to keep redrawing them. Specially if that same adept has a secondary power of 'can only draw one card on this champions turn, and not able to draw on opposing champions turns'. my psychotic anarchist can't help me thin down his deck, but would kill me in the long run. those ragefires are all i would have to keep me running.

Yoss is right, we would probably find a way around other systems fairly quick.

Tazelbain
07-31-2015, 04:16 PM
Seems a like no brainier that scale gold and loot based on amount time in matches with an upper cut off.

Xenavire
07-31-2015, 04:20 PM
I think the special rewards should be tied to dungeon story progression and boss fights (or, rather, alt wincons on bosses or hidden bosses.)

Using the Krakens Gold example, there was keeping the mayor alive as a optional task, as well as a hidden boss, and then the Kraken which had an alternate wincon. I can't imagine any aggro deck pulling off all of those conditions in a single run, so it would be a case of speed vs efficiency. And I think thats the way to go.

dogmod
07-31-2015, 04:45 PM
I think the special rewards should be tied to dungeon story progression and boss fights (or, rather, alt wincons on bosses or hidden bosses.)

Using the Krakens Gold example, there was keeping the mayor alive as a optional task, as well as a hidden boss, and then the Kraken which had an alternate wincon. I can't imagine any aggro deck pulling off all of those conditions in a single run, so it would be a case of speed vs efficiency. And I think thats the way to go.

Earth splits... I agree with Xena

Making arbitrary the longer it takes the more gold you get is a really poor way to incentivize players and is anti fun. The better way to do it is to put these types of alternate win cons in as well as put in incentives for beating a dungeon without a loss similar to how they already do that with perfect runs in arena.

I am all for them placing board wipes into dungeons that target low defense creatures to make aggro harder as well.

Mejis
07-31-2015, 04:57 PM
Earth splits... I agree with Xena

Making arbitrary the longer it takes the more gold you get is a really poor way to incentivize players and is anti fun. The better way to do it is to put these types of alternate win cons in as well as put in incentives for beating a dungeon without a loss similar to how they already do that with perfect runs in arena.

I am all for them placing board wipes into dungeons that target low defense creatures to make aggro harder as well.

Yep, I'm all for this variety in win conditions and requirements that may play out through a whole scenario.

I'm confident that we'll see a huge amount of variety in PvE though, such that there will be dungeons that favour aggro and others that favour control etc. Hopefully we might get some info about this from gen con.