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View Full Version : This game really need to do better work with mana fixer.



Altima
08-06-2015, 09:09 AM
Seriously, I cannot count how many time I lose in tournament because of mana screw.

It is safe for me to say that more than 50 % of my lost are because of mana screw.

Almost everybody play with 23 spells and 17 resource but why one player has mana screw and another hasn't.

Seriously, because your mana fixer is just beyond terrible. No dual resource and that artifact mana fixer is a joke but people have to use that terrible fixer because you do not give any other options.

Please fix this terrible limited format. I have play a lot of limited format in many games but I never be this frustrated before.

Erukk
08-06-2015, 09:36 AM
Oh look, this topic again...

To summarize a majority of all future post, random is random and the shuffler screws us all from time to time. This isn't like playing in real life, where we never actually truly randomize our deck when shuffling, true randomness from computerized shufflers are the great equalizer.

Malakili
08-06-2015, 09:38 AM
It is safe for me to say that more than 50 % of my lost are because of mana screw.


It's safe to say you're bad at evaluating why you lose games.

Trothael
08-06-2015, 09:39 AM
^

Everyone and their dog has taken a crack at this. If 17 shards isn't enough, bump it up to 18 or 19. Still having problems with screw? Scream at a d20 and hope RNGesus hears you.

Xexist
08-06-2015, 09:50 AM
No dual resource .

I think there is....

*edit*

Ah you mean one that does both, not one or the other?

Tirc
08-06-2015, 09:52 AM
It's a good thing this game doesn't use mana... So your right, there is literally no mana fixing in this game.

kaiizza
08-06-2015, 09:59 AM
Seriously, I cannot count how many time I lose in tournament because of mana screw.

It is safe for me to say that more than 50 % of my lost are because of mana screw.

Almost everybody play with 23 spells and 17 resource but why one player has mana screw and another hasn't.

Seriously, because your mana fixer is just beyond terrible. No dual resource and that artifact mana fixer is a joke but people have to use that terrible fixer because you do not give any other options.

Please fix this terrible limited format. I have play a lot of limited format in many games but I never be this frustrated before.

Bet you cant count how many times you have won because the other guy was screwed. Or how many times you won because everything went well, or how many times you won because of a skillful move you made, or how many times you lost to a mistake, or how many times you lost to time, or how many times you lost to that one card you hate, or how many times you won because you got the perfect hand to start, or how many times you lost because you didn't draw that one out.....you see what is happening here? You are remembering only one little thing that happens in this game. It hardly happenes and is not really a problem but you make it a problem in your mind.

Tirc
08-06-2015, 10:03 AM
^this, human flaws, we remember extremes a lot more than neutral results. Variance can throw things in the extreme in the short term. Also deck building goes into it as well. Without knowing your deck set up every time this is a worthless endeavor.

Vorpal
08-06-2015, 10:39 AM
I am guessing the OP just lost a lot of tournaments during the time limited event and is sad he missed out on 2013/14 packs. Entirely understandable.

I too get really unhappy when I miss out on time gated content because of RNG - and the time duration isn't long enough to recover back to the mean.

This game is using a 20 year old resource system, so there are going to be times you just lose due to shard/flood screw. As will the other guy. Just gotta hope it evens out in the end.

I will say that 50% seems high. Last time I was tracking, I or my opponent experience shard flood/screw in about a third of games, but it was not always the deciding factor, and often the screwed player would manage to win anyway.

noragar
08-06-2015, 10:56 AM
This game is using a 20 year old resource system,

So if you think it's bad now, just wait until next year when the resource system hits legal drinking age.

N3rd4Christ
08-06-2015, 11:21 AM
It's been 0 Days since the last Shard Screw/Flood post!

Thrawn
08-06-2015, 11:23 AM
These threads would just quickly drop off the front page if people wouldn't reply to them so much.

OP, if you wanted to do some reading on this topic you could start with -

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44814
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44312
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44106
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=44099
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=43345
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=42848
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=42576
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=42192
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38122
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40959
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40629
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40583
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40483
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40468
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40326
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39965
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39230
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39073
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38956
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38116
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=38039
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37054
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37233
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37132
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37024
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36956
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36704
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36444
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=35744
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36202
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36099
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=35769
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=33905
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34132
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=33956
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=33919
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=33885
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=33938
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=29508
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=32253
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31749
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31679
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31647
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31737
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31615
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31492
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31459
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31257
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31178
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=30481
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31028
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=30945
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=30814
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=30643
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=30728
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=28758
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=28448
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=28206
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=28468
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27276

plaguedealer
08-06-2015, 11:28 AM
I wonder what a true dual resource shard would be like in this game. Maybe it would not give you a resource for two turns, or at all; you would just get the thresholds.

Vorpal
08-06-2015, 11:38 AM
Well, what do we have...

+1/+1 one threshold one charge
+1/+1 no threshold two charges
+0/+1 any threshold you want, no charge
+0/+1 one of two thresholds, one charge
+1/+1 one of several thresholds with proper allegience, gain a charge

It seems like a dual threshold granting land would give no resource on the turn it is played and also no charge? That is strictly better than shards of fate, so presumably it would be a higher rarity. (in the right deck, the rare allegiance resources are strictly better than other alternatives as well)

Erukk
08-06-2015, 11:47 AM
I wonder what a true dual resource shard would be like in this game. Maybe it would not give you a resource for two turns, or at all; you would just get the thresholds.

Double penalty maybe?

0/1
Gain DR.
Gain 1 charge.
(You may not play a resource on your next turn.)

Pay the cost to fix your deck's threshold, but it can screw over tempo if played in a rough spot.

Xexist
08-06-2015, 11:59 AM
Perpahs there could be a dual shard resource that loses you charges

Aradon
08-06-2015, 12:12 PM
It'd probably be an uncommon cycle that gives both thresholds, no charge, and no immediate resource. It's not strictly better than Shards of Fate, because Shards can get any of five colors, while this card would only get two colors. You'd never play Shards of Fate over this one in a 2-color deck, but in a 3-color deck or more you would weigh your options.

Naldek
08-06-2015, 12:13 PM
Based on his last sentence, I think his complaint was for the limited format only.

To try to adress your complaint, the machine is not the only fixer available in limited although it is the only one available for all shards.

In Wild, you have Wratwood Larch who can help you get more resources or your wild threshold, and the Merry Minstrels to get your last resources.
In Sapphire, you have Arcane Focus, remember, even if it gives you no shard, your top deck is shuffled after that.
In Diamond, you have Shardcall.
I don't see any common fixers specific to blood/ruby.

And you should not underestimate the machine, sure it is far from being the best resource fixer ever created but it can help if enough of your cards require more than one threshold.

darkwonders
08-06-2015, 12:16 PM
Well, what do we have...

+1/+1 one threshold one charge
+1/+1 no threshold two charges
+0/+1 any threshold you want, no charge
+0/+1 one of two thresholds, one charge
+1/+1 one of several thresholds with proper allegience, gain a charge

It seems like a dual threshold granting land would give no resource on the turn it is played and also no charge? That is strictly better than shards of fate, so presumably it would be a higher rarity. (in the right deck, the rare allegiance resources are strictly better than other alternatives as well)

The proper Allegiance cards are amazing cause all you need is that allegiance in your hand!

Silk one is my favorite cause if I've already hit the threshold, that card becomes 3 more spiders!

Altima
08-06-2015, 11:55 PM
Of course, my complaint is only about limited format. In construct format I can add mana fixer as many as I want and there is less screw problem that way.

Mejis
08-07-2015, 12:22 AM
And you should not underestimate the machine, sure it is far from being the best resource fixer ever created but it can help if enough of your cards require more than one threshold.

Yep, this. ROID has been superb for me, setting up early thresholds and then allowing me some ramp later.

Mejis
08-07-2015, 12:27 AM
Of course, my complaint is only about limited format. In construct format I can add mana fixer as many as I want and there is less screw problem that way.

You should possibly reward your complaint to be at Set 3, as some may not understand you strictly mean limited, for this Set.

Also, I disagree. There is perhaps less fixing, but there are still options, as others have stated.

tyra
08-07-2015, 01:18 AM
the fixing is horrible, as I said before.

Yes, the system in itself is better than MtG's resource system, but the fixing is so inferior, it makes a big difference.

Following resources would not be over the top

Dual #1
1/1
Gain W and R.
Lose 1 charge

Dual #2
1/1
Gain W or R

Dual #3
0/1
Gain W and R.

Actually, I don't even want #2, I just want dual threshold resources. Otherwise, even with a superior system, MtG has less screws.

EDIT:
And I am strictly talking about constructed. Limited fixing is fine

Altima
08-07-2015, 02:55 AM
Most of my gauntlet tournaments are finished at 4-5 wins.

I know what I'm doing. I know this resource system is so terrible when I end up at 0-3 to 1-3 in gauntlet because of shard screw.

Yes, I also use that terrible machine as a fixer because there is no other choice. I also use other fixer as well if I have to but they are still terrible anyway.

Erukk
08-07-2015, 03:48 AM
Perpahs there could be a dual shard resource that loses you charges

The lose of charges isn't much of a deterrent though. Especially with the crackling spells still floating around, a deck already at 0 charges, or for decks that aren't strictly built around their champions charge ability. In limited, it would simply be a must grab. Give up a single charge to stabilize your entire threshold base for the match and it gives you resources as well? It would make splashing in a third color extremely easy and a possibly a fourth color in the matches where you picked those up.

Pirx
08-07-2015, 07:54 AM
Oh look, this topic again...

To summarize a majority of all future post, random is random and the shuffler screws us all from time to time. This isn't like playing in real life, where we never actually truly randomize our deck when shuffling, true randomness from computerized shufflers are the great equalizer.

No, the shuffler does not screw all of us from time to time. There is variance. For everyone of us who got screwed almost all the time there are people who get screwed almost none of the time.

And, I believe, there is no such thing as "true" randomness especially not in a computer. :-D

For everyone that is not a true believer of Randomness I recommend reading some texts about the "Copenhagen interpretation". :-) And the Theory of Statistics is just that, a theory.

Vorpal
08-07-2015, 08:38 AM
The lose of charges isn't much of a deterrent though. Especially with the crackling spells still floating around, a deck already at 0 charges, or for decks that aren't strictly built around their champions charge ability. In limited, it would simply be a must grab. Give up a single charge to stabilize your entire threshold base for the match and it gives you resources as well? It would make splashing in a third color extremely easy and a possibly a fourth color in the matches where you picked those up.

It would be a must grab, but I'm not really sure that would be bad for limited. Dunno, maybe reliable 3 color decks would just be way too good compared to 2 color decks? But it's just one card in your deck...

darkwonders
08-07-2015, 08:41 AM
It would be a must grab, but I'm not really sure that would be bad for limited. Dunno, maybe reliable 3 color decks would just be way too good compared to 2 color decks? But it's just one card in your deck...

What if it prevents you from gaining charges for the rest of the game? If people are really that adamant at a catch-all resource fixing, it should come at a huge cost.

sukebe
08-07-2015, 12:39 PM
You think you have it bad OP? I have never drawn a single mana card even once in this game....


Sorry, had to do it. getting the terminology right is important both for helping new players use it correctly and it couldn't hurt to use the proper terms when it comes to the lawsuit either.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 12:43 PM
I really like that Super Nintendo game, Secret of Mana, but I haven't found a way to play it in the Hex client yet. I don't think this should be a priority in development at this time though.

IronPheasant
08-07-2015, 01:08 PM
Mana mana mana mana red white blue green purple black oregano.

Bmon
08-07-2015, 01:38 PM
You think you have it bad OP? I have never drawn a single mana card even once in this game....


Sorry, had to do it. getting the terminology right is important both for helping new players use it correctly and it couldn't hurt to use the proper terms when it comes to the lawsuit either.

Don't be so pedantic. The term "resources" is ambiguous since cards in hand, troops on board, untapped dwarf/robots, and life total can all be considered resources in addition to the thing used to play troops / actions. Calling the thing used to play actions / troops mana is less misleading and fits with the idea that it is mystical energy derived from the shards your champion employs. Mana is the term used for mystical energy in many video games and is in no way specific to one. If you want people to call it something else, come up with a better term than "resources" and start using that.

Aradon
08-07-2015, 01:42 PM
Don't be so pedantic. The term "resources" is ambiguous since cards in hand, troops on board, untapped dwarf/robots, and life total can all be considered resources in addition to the thing used to play troops / actions. Calling the thing used to play actions / troops mana is less misleading and fits with the idea that it is mystical energy derived from the shards your champion employs. Mana is the term used for mystical energy in many video games and is in no way specific to one. If you want people to call it something else, come up with a better term than "resources" and start using that.

Surely you mean un-exhausted robots.

But seriously, I lop this distinction in with my opinion against referring to MtG as 'That Other Game.' It's unnecessary, and always strikes me as slightly pretentious.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 01:46 PM
Don't be so pedantic. The term "resources" is ambiguous since cards in hand, troops on board, untapped dwarf/robots, and life total can all be considered resources in addition to the thing used to play troops / actions. Calling the thing used to play actions / troops mana is less misleading and fits with the idea that it is mystical energy derived from the shards your champion employs. Mana is the term used for mystical energy in many video games and is in no way specific to one. If you want people to call it something else, come up with a better term than "resources" and start using that.

I don't think he's being pedantic at all actually, using the term "mana" I think takes away from the more elaborate resource system that Hex has come up with. There are Resources, Thresholds, and Charges, all of which can be managed and manipulated in many varied and unique ways unlike other games with simple "Mana" resources. Using the term "Mana" just over-simplifies this and may even show a lack of understanding of how these systems work in Hex compared to other games, so it's an important distinction to make.