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Teldil
08-07-2015, 10:05 AM
Was wondering if it is ok to buy Plat from sellers \ players outside of Hex, or is it against the terms?
Can you get banned for doing that?
Any further info on the subject would be appreciated.

Thanks!

zadies
08-07-2015, 10:10 AM
Given how much scamming is going on with people saying they are selling ks tiers I wouldn't try it atm buying from a scammer will likely get you reprimanded of some sort... now if you are sure the source didn't scam to get the plat you will likely be ok because they don't mind 3rd party things with cards but how can you be sure they didn't scam to get the plat which they have to come down hard on.

Assassine
08-07-2015, 10:13 AM
You are allowed to buy everything except Platinum and Gold and accounts for real money. However, you do so on your own risk, and will not be reimbursed if scammed.

So no, buying platinum for real cash from a source other than the official store is not allowed.

N3rd4Christ
08-07-2015, 10:51 AM
It's against T&C. Even when buying cards be very careful!

Kramer
08-07-2015, 11:03 AM
Buying gold or plat from outside the in game store is the fastest way to get a permanent ban in the game. If you want to buy cards/packs and then convert in AH for plat, then I believe that is the only legal way to get plat from an outside source. However, BUYER BEWARE, as CZE policy is not to get involved in outside transactions and the risk is very high that you will get scammed. Just buy from the ingame store and you will not have any problems.

Your other option is to send COD within the game for gold to plat or plat to gold depending on what you are looking for.

STAY AWAY FROM CURRENCY TRANSACTIONS OUTSIDE OF THE GAME!

Metronomy
08-07-2015, 12:21 PM
There's a pretty serious thread going on in the Bug forums that may or may not be related to this topic (some users report one possible cause, others a different one): http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=45223

At this point, I would strongly suggest NOT buying plat or gold outside of Hex.

Its not realted...dont do mail trading for now...

The only currency I got recently without trading was by speedlimit cause I won a draft set and in that draft set included were 100 plat. If that is the cause of this it would be hilarious...and sad.

Brewdinar
08-07-2015, 12:48 PM
Its not realted...


I'm not sure if you saw a few of the deleted posts or talked to some of the affected users that I have. As I said, there seems to be more than one cause for posting in that thread.

Metronomy
08-07-2015, 12:51 PM
edit: i decided to not talk anymore about this whole topic...i dont wanna risk causing more bad blood

DreamPuppet
08-07-2015, 01:42 PM
Was wondering if it is ok to buy Plat from sellers \ players outside of Hex, or is it against the terms?
Can you get banned for doing that?
Any further info on the subject would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Unless you're a well known streamer or personal friend of CZE i wouldn't risk doing outside the game transactions.

Yoss
08-07-2015, 01:47 PM
Unless you're a well known streamer or personal friend of CZE i wouldn't risk doing outside the game transactions.

Trading packs and cards is clearly allowed. There are officially HXE endorsed sites that buy and sell items (but not currencies).

Arveene
08-07-2015, 01:52 PM
Yeah, Five Shards and Hex Primal have stores to sell cards to players. They even will buy cards for plat from your collections. There's either a double standard here or these sites shouldn't allowed to be linked or advertised on the forums.

nicosharp
08-07-2015, 01:58 PM
There is no double-standard, and G2A.com is a partner of Gameforge. HXE is a partner with G2A.com by simple association.

What HXE was against is that G2A.com allow folks to sell on their site, and this is where scamming may happen. Either through the sale (which I haven't heard reports of), or through how the seller buys their Gameforge codes... (stolen credit cards/etc.)

Fiveshards and Hexprimal exist because there is a need for third party sales, and third party sales are a highly touted part of HEX through its design decision to have everything have a real-value / our collections have value / the economy is created and ran by the players. There are just a few funny rules in the TOS that make it so the way you go about selling third party is important, because the digital assets you can sell or trade, are different than the digital currency.

Svenn
08-07-2015, 02:31 PM
Yeah, Five Shards and Hex Primal have stores to sell cards to players. They even will buy cards for plat from your collections. There's either a double standard here or these sites shouldn't allowed to be linked or advertised on the forums.

Selling cards, boosters, etc is fine. Selling gold/platinum is not.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 02:44 PM
There is no double-standard, and G2A.com is a partner of Gameforge. HXE is a partner with G2A.com by simple association.

What HXE was against is that G2A.com allow folks to sell on their site, and this is where scamming may happen. Either through the sale (which I haven't heard reports of), or through how the seller buys their Gameforge codes... (stolen credit cards/etc.)

I think you meant to include this part in the other thread where G2A was being discussed. Either way, here's the relevant quote from Phenteo for reference:


Please be aware that we do not endorse that site. Also, there have been reports in other games that they used stolen credit cards to illegally obtain either virtual items or the games themselves.

Arveene
08-07-2015, 04:03 PM
Selling cards, boosters, etc is fine. Selling gold/platinum is not.

I don't see how there's any real difference, but I guess that's how they want to do things.

israel.kendall
08-07-2015, 04:12 PM
I don't see how there's any real difference, but I guess that's how they want to do things.

There is zero difference in regards to the ToS.

propagation
08-07-2015, 05:05 PM
ofc you buy from outside source

the rate are as today are 0.5/100 plat, why the hell you wanna pay $1/100 plat.

israel.kendall
08-07-2015, 05:15 PM
I think you meant to include this part in the other thread where G2A was being discussed. Either way, here's the relevant quote from Phenteo for reference:

Phenteo could make the same statement about eBay, and it hold true.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 05:20 PM
Phenteo could make the same statement about eBay, and it hold true.

I don't think HXE is in any position to endorse eBay either, not sure what your point is here, sorry

israel.kendall
08-07-2015, 05:22 PM
I don't think HXE is in any position to endorse eBay either, not sure what your point is here, sorry

With the whole "stolen goods" angle is what I'm talking about lol

Svenn
08-07-2015, 05:23 PM
ofc you buy from outside source

the rate are as today are 0.5/100 plat, why the hell you wanna pay $1/100 plat.

So you're admitting to buying plat from sellers outside of game? You realize that's an easy way to get banned, right?

Metronomy
08-07-2015, 05:35 PM
I never bought or sold any platinum...i did buy some cards from the fiveshards shop since I won a voucher as a doorprice in one of the cup tournaments....i realy want to know whats going on with the whole closing down of accounts....I know I said I wanted to let the topic go but they just closed the thread...this has me seriously concerned now...

Svenn
08-07-2015, 05:38 PM
I never bought or sold any platinum...i did buy some cards from the fiveshards shop since I won a voucher as a doorprice in one of the cup tournaments....i realy want to know whats going on with the whole closing down of accounts....I know I said I wanted to let the topic go but they just closed the thread...this has me seriously concerned now...

As far as I've seen, accounts aren't being closed, access to them is being temporarily disabled to investigate some stuff. Doesn't look like anyone was permanently banned from what I've seen.

Metronomy
08-07-2015, 05:46 PM
well...i thought i would try a last time to log in and gues what...it worked....Im sure it didnt work 6-7 hours ago...anyways...so i can calm down now....still...the whole process was communication-wise more than unsatisfying

NOBLEStarshield
08-07-2015, 05:47 PM
When posting on the forums please remember posts need to follow the HEX Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct can be found here > https://www.hextcg.com/code-of-conduct/.

Metronomy
08-07-2015, 05:51 PM
i know i was risking my post being deleted (altough i dont think it should have been)...you have to understand one thing though...this whole matter was and is far too serious to take lightly...its a very pressing issue for those involved and so far the only response was "do not discuss" and closing down a thread...well its resolved for me (altough i dont know when how or why)...but still...I have to be allowed to express my dissatisfatcion of this whole process

dmc349
08-07-2015, 05:57 PM
This used to happen to me a lot, but it was in the last months of last year. It would always happen to me around 23:00 GMT for some strange reason. I would not be able to log in for hours at a time, just stuck on full bar loading main menu screen.

dmc349
08-07-2015, 06:16 PM
Regarding the Rules of Conduct -

Illegal Drugs or Activities
Violations include both clear and masked language and/or links to websites containing such language or images which:
Reference to abusing illegal drugs
Reference to performing illegal activities

I find this interesting in an international forum, is there a particular host country's laws that we are basing this on?

Say for example Cannabis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country

In some its Legal, in a lot of others its not.


If someone did get banned, it would be kind of funny since you did give Cirouss Exalted status while he was wearing shorts with cannabis leafs plastered all over them at gencon.

Arveene
08-07-2015, 08:35 PM
As far as I've seen, accounts aren't being closed, access to them is being temporarily disabled to investigate some stuff. Doesn't look like anyone was permanently banned from what I've seen.

Accounts have been closed, there were some screenshots of support conversations up in the thread about the loading bar stuck at full. It seems like they've been removed since then.

To everyone that said selling cards for cash is okay, how do you interpret this quote from the ToS to get that idea?


6. No Exploitation for Commercial Purposes. You agree that you will not exploit any part of the HEX Game for commercial purposes, including (a) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the HEX Game, or (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the HEX Game.

Zophie
08-07-2015, 09:38 PM
To everyone that said selling cards for cash is okay, how do you interpret this quote from the ToS to get that idea?

Not to stop you, but I encourage you to read through some of the past discussions on the forums regarding the TOS and selling in-game items:

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40984 (Feb '15)
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39916 (Dec '14)
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=28099 (Oct '13)

Also note this quote from the Dec '14 thread in particular:


I will clarify a little more:

In any video game, you never have ownership of the content provided. You are given access by the company to play the game and utilize your account and anything on your account as long as you follow any policies set by the company. We also explicitly forbid the sales for real world cash, any currency in the game. To keep your value of your collection, you have the ability to sell your cards for real world cash outside of our forums/game, although we do not recognize these sales in cases of arbitration between you and the other party taking place in the transaction.

Arveene
08-07-2015, 10:26 PM
Not to stop you, but I encourage you to read through some of the past discussions on the forums regarding the TOS and selling in-game items:

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=40984 (Feb '15)
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39916 (Dec '14)
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=28099 (Oct '13)

Also note this quote from the Dec '14 thread in particular:

I saw that quote from the Dec '14 thread. I also noticed that in the Feb '15 thread after the ToS was changed, Phenteo refused to answer any questions asking for clarification on some of the sections. He even went so far as to say we should contact a lawyer to interpret it. Now I don't blame him for doing so, anything he says or gets wrong could lead to trouble. There's also a post by Data Dragon on reddit regarding the ToS change and how it affects RMT. He basically says the same thing Phenteo says in the Feb '15 thread. I won't link it because I don't know if that's allowed and would rather not have my posts be deleted.

Since the ToS update, there's been a lot of speculation from the userbase, but no confirmation from any Hex Employee on what is or isn't allowed. Now we're in a situation where it seems like a lot of players have had their accounts locked / banned and we're not 100% sure why.

Ditsch
08-08-2015, 01:44 AM
So I don't know if my cards have value or not as it might not be safe to sell them for real money, and I don't want to break the TOS and get banned. I wanted to buy a new VIP package when my VIP run's out so I would have to sell cards to get the money for the VIP. :(

zadies
08-08-2015, 08:08 AM
If they choose to ban my account for utilizing a feature on a site they endorse in any fashion that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen irregardless of any term of service update. They do endorse sites that allow for the purchase and sale of cards as can be seen through the newest Friday update with the fiveshards diamond cup with a direct link to that website. They seem to be playing multiple sides of an issue and it sickens me. They post a known re-seller of cards website and won't directly answer a question in regards to the resale of cards. So they want to encourage community growth while spreading massive amounts of fear mongering.

Stok3d
08-08-2015, 11:54 AM
Zadies, the only fear mongering I see is coming from you...

I'm at work now typing from my cell, but this question has been explicitly answered in the past. Essentially, platinum and accounts are prohibited from sales. You can sell cards, unused ks codes... buyer beware and cash sales can't be posted in these forums.

I'll dig up links and further explain when I get home.

Fyren
08-08-2015, 02:12 PM
Zadies, the only fear mongering I see is coming from you...

It's gotten to the point where I can form a reasonable, levelled stance on any argument in these forums by looking at one of Zadies' posts and finding the flaw in it.

Thrawn
08-08-2015, 02:20 PM
If they choose to ban my account for utilizing a feature on a site they endorse in any fashion that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen irregardless of any term of service update. They do endorse sites that allow for the purchase and sale of cards as can be seen through the newest Friday update with the fiveshards diamond cup with a direct link to that website. They seem to be playing multiple sides of an issue and it sickens me. They post a known re-seller of cards website and won't directly answer a question in regards to the resale of cards. So they want to encourage community growth while spreading massive amounts of fear mongering.

Your tinfoil hat is a bit too tight.

Metronomy
08-08-2015, 03:31 PM
its not all fear mongering..sadly..i cant say more...sadly..

Zophie
08-08-2015, 03:51 PM
It's gotten to the point where I can form a reasonable, levelled stance on any argument in these forums by looking at one of Zadies' posts and finding the flaw in it.

You know I ignored him on the forums a long time ago and can't really remember the original reason why, but every time someone quotes him I have no regrets.

israel.kendall
08-08-2015, 04:18 PM
Zadies, the only fear mongering I see is coming from you...

I'm at work now typing from my cell, but this question has been explicitly answered in the past. Essentially, platinum and accounts are prohibited from sales. You can sell cards, unused ks codes... buyer beware and cash sales can't be posted in these forums.

I'll dig up links and further explain when I get home.

This question was answered in the past with the caveat "for the time being" or something like that. The ToS has since been changed with no clarification to the new document. The comments you mention were in regards to an old version of the ToS.

BenRGamer
08-08-2015, 05:34 PM
To be honest, it's likely the case they can't clearly say you can, as advised by their lawyers.

zadies
08-08-2015, 05:49 PM
I think you missed the part where since the term of service update instead of answering questions if resale is permitted they refer you to lawyers see Arveene's post. You seem to be bringing resentment from arguments in a separate thread here and saying I'm fear mongering... sorry in this case you just have to look at what people are actually complaining about and the complete lack of response to the issue since the TOS update and realize the word was used just fine. The entire issue has come up due to the lack of clarity on why accounts are being locked down and CZE's lack of response on the issue. When you start to refer people to lawyers on topics that you had previously addressed directly there is something fishy going on.

israel.kendall
08-08-2015, 06:48 PM
I agree on the lack of clarity thing. This is because a new guy comes along, reads the ToS and sees that selling ALL items is in violation. This player then sees the HEX team advertise tourneys run by a site that sales HEX items. If the player was from say MTGO, they might understand the ToS is just a technicality, much like in MTGO. New player then thinks its OK to buy and sell HEX items. Player one day buys some plat and then?

Svenn
08-08-2015, 09:25 PM
I think you missed the part where since the term of service update instead of answering questions if resale is permitted they refer you to lawyers see Arveene's post. You seem to be bringing resentment from arguments in a separate thread here and saying I'm fear mongering... sorry in this case you just have to look at what people are actually complaining about and the complete lack of response to the issue since the TOS update and realize the word was used just fine. The entire issue has come up due to the lack of clarity on why accounts are being locked down and CZE's lack of response on the issue. When you start to refer people to lawyers on topics that you had previously addressed directly there is something fishy going on.
I have a PM from Phenteo on 3/9:


Hey there,

We won't investigate sales of boosters or cards, but you can report gold/platinum sales to http://support.hextcg.com.

israel.kendall
08-08-2015, 09:34 PM
So every new guy is supposed to know that Phenteo sent a pm to this guy on the forum one time? This is the clarity issue illustrated rather well.

zadies
08-08-2015, 09:57 PM
The issue from that pm isn't that we don't currently have the right to ban people for buying cards only that we are currently choosing not to investigate the matter. Which leaves open the possibility that at some point in the future the way the ToS is currently written with no statements to the contrary that they can in fact ban you from buying cards a year from now someone they hire might not be aware of this and choose to enforce the ToS as written.... previously that wasn't an option because they had provided explicit clarity that it was allowed to sell cards since the rewrite no explicit statement has been made. There would be no recourse for the individual because as the ToS is written they are well within their rights to do so.

Yoss
08-08-2015, 10:16 PM
No matter what the ToS says (and I'm sure there are legal reasons why it must do so), it would be suicide for HXE to ban people over 3rd party sales. Without 3rd party sales, all your virtual goods are truly worthless in real money terms and you might as well be playing a CCG. Even just a couple stories of people banned would be heavily damaging, and even more if it happened to be someone who's well known in the community and also vocal about doing 3rd party trades (Svenn, any of the fiveshards.com guys, etc).

Go read the MTGO ToS. Then go read about all the myriad ways to cash out of MTGO without getting banned. Breathe.

zadies
08-08-2015, 10:21 PM
The issue Yoss is previously they had provided clarity and now are choosing not to provide such clarity it is quite easy to make assumptions based on well this is how it's been, but how it had been had been based on clarity that cze had decided to provide.

wolzarg
08-09-2015, 03:42 AM
Yep its super easy to make assumptions. My assumption is someone told them they can't publicly state that real money sales is allowed and now they have to stick with that.

This is exactly how it works for MTGO with the side note of the fact that you can buy and sell what is technically currency in the game.

israel.kendall
08-09-2015, 04:01 AM
No matter what the ToS says (and I'm sure there are legal reasons why it must do so), it would be suicide for HXE to ban people over 3rd party sales. Without 3rd party sales, all your virtual goods are truly worthless in real money terms and you might as well be playing a CCG. Even just a couple stories of people banned would be heavily damaging, and even more if it happened to be someone who's well known in the community and also vocal about doing 3rd party trades (Svenn, any of the fiveshards.com guys, etc).

Go read the MTGO ToS. Then go read about all the myriad ways to cash out of MTGO without getting banned. Breathe.

Funny you mention stories, because the stories are going around as we speak.

The_Lannisters
08-09-2015, 05:57 AM
People were playing online poker on Pokerstars in the US for years. The activity was not regulated and whether it was legal or not open to debate. However, the status quo lasted a long time.

One day things changed ... for ever. I can see why an US based company could get fidgety about a possible real currency income generation activity from a game of skill.

wolzarg
08-09-2015, 06:57 AM
The question with that is would the fact that gameforge handles all the money make it more or less screwy legality wise?

Falaris
08-10-2015, 12:07 PM
I'm also curious why it's not allowed to advertise that you're selling cards on ebay while at the same time HXE links prominently to sites that do. That seems like some pretty blatant favoritism to me.

Edit: I guess for clarity's sake I should say that I am not selling on ebay, as I'm not interested in possibly compromising my account. However, the double standard being applied to a select few groups is pretty annoying to say the least, given the fact that one of the driving points behind the kickstarter was that our collections would hold value. If you can't actually sell your cards, your collection is permanently worth zero. Might as well be playing a CCG.

zadies
08-11-2015, 10:00 AM
Falaris it is likely ebay reporting you for breaching the ToS to CZE and since CZE has to look like they are legally enforcing it your account gets banned. ebay tends to report those things to companies that have ToS saying that it is a breach of the ToS to sell things even if it is allowed by ignoring it typically... It would be more an issue if someone made a site like myhexsales.com and getting banned for it.

You really have an interaction between two ToS selling things on ebay.

Falaris
08-11-2015, 10:13 AM
Falaris it is likely ebay reporting you for breaching the ToS to CZE and since CZE has to look like they are legally enforcing it your account gets banned. ebay tends to report those things to companies that have ToS saying that it is a breach of the ToS to sell things even if it is allowed by ignoring it typically... It would be more an issue if someone made a site like myhexsales.com and getting banned for it.

You really have an interaction between two ToS selling things on ebay.

Ebay won't report for that. "The other game" has the same verbiage, and people buy/sell items on ebay from there all the time.

Stok3d
08-11-2015, 10:16 AM
To put the reason why Platinum is not allowed in sales, let me make up a hypothetical story. This ruling imo is essentially a safety net. I'm not going to use specific countries as to avoid potentially ruffling anyone's feathers.

Example:

While the default is still to keep packs at $2US, it's obvious that Earth has lots of different monetary systems that fluctuate on a continuous basis. As such, HexEnt/Gameforge has made adjustments to other curriencies to keep the exchange rate relatively 'fair'.

However, there is great news to be known! Hex has just broadened it's monetary base and has now recognizing an interplanetary "Solar(system) United Currency Kinship" (S.U.C.K.) monetary system. Currently the ratio for S.U.C.K. to USD is 1:1. Hex hopes to use this measure to penetrate into the untapped Martian Market on Mars.

As luck would have it, after a year or so there is a growing dissension originating from Earth that Pluto has a seat on the Solar System Committee and utilizes S.U.C.K. as their official currency. As such, there are rumors that a vote may make place to oust Pluto. Trying to head off this decision, Pluto is now refusing to pay or recognize it's tremendous amount of debt the country and banks hold. As such, the S.U.C.K. ratio is spiraling out of control. Each day that goes by, the value to the USD is splitting in half. After about a month, 1Billion S.U.C.K. is worth about $1 USD.

In all this turmoil, there arose an opportunistic person person who makes a living with playing monetary markets (IGN: Hai) on Pluto. He noticed that the ratios of S.U.C.K. hadn't been updating on Gameforge and had used this to his favor. He found that he could buy Platinum with S.U.C.K. for next to nothing and then sell for USD on the grey market. As such, he created a website HaiSUCK.com and is selling platinum for 1 penny in bulk. It took Gameforge a month or so to catch on before dropping S.U.C.K. currency, but the damage was already done. Billions upon Billions of cheap currency already flooded into this game which essentially made our collections worth nothing and bankrupted HexEnt. I mean why would any gamer pay "any more than they had to" for platinum. If there was a source that was able to provide 'discounted' platinum, that is where we'd buy wouldn't me.

The only person who walked out a winner was Hai from HaiSUCK.com.

Thank you Hex for putting in these safety measures. There is no reason why you should be able to fund a third party to sell platinum at a continuous discount just because of currency exchanges. It hurts us all.

zadies
08-11-2015, 10:23 AM
Ebay won't report for that. "The other game" has the same verbiage, and people buy/sell items on ebay from there all the time.

CZE doesn't need any more lawsuits then it already has and ebay and wotc aren't going to throw money at each other, wotc on the other hand could easily fund an extra lawsuit from ebay against hex.

Stok3d
08-11-2015, 10:29 AM
Ebay won't report for that. "The other game" has the same verbiage, and people buy/sell items on ebay from there all the time.

CZE doesn't need any more lawsuits then it already has and ebay and wotc aren't going to throw money at each other, wotc on the other hand could easily fund an extra lawsuit from ebay against hex.


I presume you do realize that you cannot sell virtual Items on ebay? It has been like this for 8 years or so. This has nothing to do with Hex... it has to do with Ebay/Paypal. This is nothing new and should be no surprise--any Virtual Item of any game on ebay that gets reported will get the listing removed.

Buying / Selling Virtual Items on Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/gds/Buying-and-Selling-Virtual-Items-on-eBay-/10000000004609906/g.html)

Yoss
08-11-2015, 10:33 AM
@Stok3d:
Or Gameforge/HXE could just keep their currency system up to date instead of using a "set and forget" model.
Or they could force all sales to be in $US so that they do not have to worry with what the other "funny money" markets are doing.
Et cetera.

There are other solutions. People cash out of MTGO easy enough, regardless of what the MTGO ToS says. I don't see why Hex should be any different in that regard.

wolzarg
08-11-2015, 02:04 PM
they could force all sales to be in $US so that they do not have to worry with what the other "funny money" markets are doing.

I'm not saying your suggestions are bad but this solves literally nothing as a dollar changes in value based on who buys it. Based on my currency a dollar has been worth half of what it is now previously and could be worth double at some other point this would mean i play cheaply at times and expensively at times making the market weird for non americans.

Gwaer
08-11-2015, 02:13 PM
I'm not saying your suggestions are bad but this solves literally nothing as a dollar changes in value based on who buys it. Based on my currency a dollar has been worth half of what it is now previously and could be worth double at some other point this would mean i play cheaply at times and expensively at times making the market weird for non americans.

As many problems as I have with yoss suggestion this isn't one of them. When your currency is weak vs the dollar it should get you less plat in the current system. And more plat when it is strong. This is already true. The issue currently is that these things aren't being updated enough as is. Only being able to buy in usd would solve that. And it's one of the biggest problems in the market right now.

Yoss
08-11-2015, 02:29 PM
I'm not saying your suggestions are bad but this solves literally nothing as a dollar changes in value based on who buys it. Based on my currency a dollar has been worth half of what it is now previously and could be worth double at some other point this would mean i play cheaply at times and expensively at times making the market weird for non americans.

I agree that it's a Trade Study that would need serious consideration by people who are smart in these areas. There is likely a mixture of good and bad elements with any given solution.

Ban 3rd Party Sales, but don't enforce it (the MTGO policy):
Good: works wonderfully for the players and (I assume) for the company
Bad: there is a disconnect between law and enforcement, which fosters a general disregard for all rules, never knowing which ones are "real"

Ban 3rd Party Sales (and enforce):
Good: Law and enforcement are in harmony. Government taxation and ownership laws are held at bay.
Bad: Players truly own nothing, can't cash out. All the talk from Cory about "value" during KS turns out to be crap. Players wonder why they're paying TCG prices for something that's missing a key component of a TCG (value).

And so on. The above is far from complete. There are many factors to consider and probably more than just two options.

wolzarg
08-11-2015, 03:09 PM
Honestly the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that you can use things like discounted giftcards. I know that is a gameforge issue but honestly its a big issue to me and a reason i think that gameforge is not a suitable partner based on their involvment in shadey click for money sites, and stuff like that as well.

Gwaer
08-11-2015, 03:13 PM
The gift cards still aren't the problem. A much bigger discount is given to anyone who buys in euros right now, since the euro is much weaker vs the dollar than it was when they set the prices.

Yoss
08-11-2015, 04:14 PM
I don't know why they aren't updating prices at least monthly. Should really be checked daily.

Falaris
08-11-2015, 05:30 PM
I wasn't even aware the valuations weren't being updated monthly. This is legitimately a travesty. You mean people are paying half of what I am due to currency exchange fluctuations?

israel.kendall
08-11-2015, 05:40 PM
I wasn't even aware the valuations weren't being updated monthly. This is legitimately a travesty. You mean people are paying half of what I am due to currency exchange fluctuations?

About 30% discount last I checked.

plaguedealer
08-11-2015, 05:58 PM
Gameforge is based in Europe and the euro has lost value. That is life for companies that want to deal overseas. I am not a complete expert, but I have not seen many gaming companies say that they will have a floating value of their online currency in order to cover any fluctuations in the euro/dollar euro/pound euro/yen.

wolzarg
08-11-2015, 08:39 PM
The gift cards still aren't the problem. A much bigger discount is given to anyone who buys in euros right now, since the euro is much weaker vs the dollar than it was when they set the prices.
Then americans really need to get in on those subway giftcard deals or what ever that europeans can't access and it evens out.

sukebe
08-11-2015, 09:02 PM
Then americans really need to get in on those subway giftcard deals or what ever that europeans can't access and it evens out.

again, this is just not true as far as I can tell. the best discount I can find with any regularity at all is 15% off using sports authority gift cards. this comes at the cost of having a lot of gift cards with left over money on them that you cannot use as cards often have odd amounts of money on them.

Gift cards do indeed give a discount, but they take more work to get and are no where near what euro users are currently getting.

If you can prove me wrong, please let me know. I am on a fixed income and could really use the help stretching my meager games budget even just a little bit further.

Werlix
08-11-2015, 09:14 PM
If you collect in game items and sell them for real money you are breaking the TOS of the game, there is no way around that.


6. No Exploitation for Commercial Purposes. You agree that you will not exploit any part of the HEX Game for commercial purposes, including (a) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the HEX Game, or (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the HEX Game.

Seems to be nothing in there against buying it though I see.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 10:58 AM
If you collect in game items and sell them for real money you are breaking the TOS of the game, there is no way around that.



Seems to be nothing in there against buying it though I see.

Have you read the ToS for MTGO?

Hextra
08-12-2015, 01:11 PM
Then americans really need to get in on those subway giftcard deals or what ever that europeans can't access and it evens out.

Why do people keep saying that Europeans have a better deal? That makes absolutely no sense. Europeans are paid in euros so they don't see the effect of a euro devaluation. To take advantage of it, you need to exchange currencies. So really, the only players who can take advantage of it are Americans who can buy euros cheaper than before, and then spend that money to buy plat. The deal becomes even better if they can find discounted gift cards labelled in euros. Gameforge is simply not adjusting the EUR/plat exchange rate for fear of losing players in Europe, and they are probably right in that.

Also, Stock3d doesn't know what he's talking about: In his hypothetical scenario, Hai is pretty much the only one who can't take advantage of the devaluation of his own currency. Anyone paid in dollars can buy the devalued currency, and then spend it for plat at no risk. This means that Hai's margin cannot be greater than that of the exchange rate. Because Hai would be receive dollars for his plat and have to convert that back into his own currency, the scheme automatically becomes a money losing proposition



There are other solutions. People cash out of MTGO easy enough, regardless of what the MTGO ToS says. I don't see why Hex should be any different in that regard.

Whiat are those solutions? I don't think you can realistically expect Hex to buy your cards back from you. Sure, cards have value within the game, but assigning them a value outside would require clearing a legal minefield (security laws, gambling laws, money laundering laws, and probably others.) The best you can hope for, I think, is a bidirectional redemption system which would allow you to convert digital cards for some token (e.g. physical cards) and back. That would let you transfer ownership outside of the game using eBay for instance. Even then, you would only be able to get back a fraction of the value because such sales would be inherently riskier than in-game ones, and redemption wouldn't be free.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 01:23 PM
I think the g2a conversation is moot now. It looks like the they increased the price of the gift cards. There is a small discount. However, it is doubtful anyone in the us will use it.

I hope they put that kind of effort in banning third party plat/gold buyers/sellers.

Werlix
08-12-2015, 01:32 PM
Have you read the ToS for MTGO?

No

Yoss
08-12-2015, 01:59 PM
I hope they put that kind of effort in banning third party plat/gold buyers/sellers.
Why would you hope for this? If we can't cash out, then our collections have no value and a significant portion of Cory's vision for the game is crushed.


No
It's the same, more or less, as the one for Hex. And yet, RMT happens non-stop for MTGO. It's just not "officially" supported. I would expect the same here.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 02:36 PM
Why would you hope for this? If we can't cash out, then our collections have no value and a significant portion of Cory's vision for the game is crushed.

People were making a stink over a 30% discount (due to a devalued euro) and wanted it changed because it hurt the economy.

Being able to buy plat for 50 to 60% off (maybe more) is the real problem (also buying gold). Not sure why there is not more discussion on that being a major drain to the economy.

Xenavire
08-12-2015, 03:46 PM
People were making a stink over a 30% discount (due to a devalued euro) and wanted it changed because it hurt the economy.

Being able to buy plat for 50 to 60% off (maybe more) is the real problem (also buying gold). Not sure why there is not more discussion on that being a major drain to the economy.

It depends on the source of that plat. If that plat is coming from players etc, then that is perfectly acceptable, because it has been paid for. If they are using some kind of shady dealings, then that obviously needs to be dealt with.

thereck
08-12-2015, 03:54 PM
I think the g2a conversation is moot now. It looks like the they increased the price of the gift cards. There is a small discount. However, it is doubtful anyone in the us will use it.

I hope they put that kind of effort in banning third party plat/gold buyers/sellers.

just looking at it really quickly, I can use coupon codes on G2A to buy G2A gift cards in euros below exchange rates, I can buy gameforge giftcards cheaper then their face value with the giftcard and apply coupon codes again, and then I can use the gameforge gift card to buy form the store. it's ball park 30% cheaper this way then just buying plat for dollars. You can even link this further as they accept other gift cards to pay for things on g2a

TOOT
08-12-2015, 03:57 PM
It depends on the source of that plat. If that plat is coming from players etc, then that is perfectly acceptable, because it has been paid for. If they are using some kind of shady dealings, then that obviously needs to be dealt with.

It's not perfectly acceptable. At all.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 04:07 PM
It depends on the source of that plat. If that plat is coming from players etc, then that is perfectly acceptable, because it has been paid for. If they are using some kind of shady dealings, then that obviously needs to be dealt with.

The ability to easily buy gold from others will hurt hex's economy big time. You can use it to get plat. I have a feeling that is why some are selling plat so cheap.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 04:27 PM
It's not perfectly acceptable. At all.


The ability to easily buy gold from others will hurt hex's economy big time. You can use it to get plat. I have a feeling that is why some are selling plat so cheap.

One or both of you please explain the economic details of how 3rd party sales are a problem for the game, its economy, HXE, or the players. Right now all I'm hearing is "trust me, it's bad". I'd like to hear some reasons.

I can tell you some reasons why 3rd party RMT is good.
1) 3rd party RMT means our collections actually mean something. They have value as advertised.
2) It helps players spread currencies around more efficiently, reducing the cost of playing the game. (This is also in some sense a negative for HXE, but I believe it would be offset by pulling more players in with the lower costs.)
NOTE: All the plat being traded had to come from HXE at some point. There is no other source for it.

Some reasons why not having RMT would be bad (in addition to the negation of the above).
1) The most skilled players, who have "gone infinite" just pile up plat with no use for it. This means there's no way to move beyond going infinite into going professional with the game.

I'm sure I could come up with more if I spent more time on it.

Harwinne
08-12-2015, 04:33 PM
One issue that could arise is that it makes Hex a big target for hackers, say if some day comes and certain out of print cards are "worth" large sums of money. TOSes don't hold up in court most of the time when people are ripped off. CZE wouldn't have a means of protecting themselves from what could be an inevitable situation.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 04:34 PM
This is not mtgo, hex has a secondary currency which is gold. Gold is supposed to be a major currency since so few things will be sold directly by crypto.

If currency sellers farm gold and convert it to plat it does two things 1. Devalue gold 2. Devalue plat. In the long run plat will go back up in value because gold's value will be gutted. That is bad for f2p players, which is a major piece on whether hex will be successful.

TOOT
08-12-2015, 04:54 PM
I am not saying that it is my opinion that players shouldn't be allowed to buy/sell plat/gold. I agree with you in that I would prefer it be allowed.

I am saying that it is forbidden according to CZE. Selling boosters, cards, mercs, sleeves etc is fine. Selling plat or gold is not.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:18 PM
One issue that could arise is that it makes Hex a big target for hackers, say if some day comes and certain out of print cards are "worth" large sums of money. TOSes don't hold up in court most of the time when people are ripped off. CZE wouldn't have a means of protecting themselves from what could be an inevitable situation.

Good point. Security needs to be a major priority, no question about it. I do not believe it should deter the game from allowing gray market RMT. We now have Google Authenticator, which helps a bit.

I'm curious if MTGO has a problem with hackers? MTGO stuff obviously has RMT value.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:28 PM
This is not mtgo, hex has a secondary currency which is gold. Gold is supposed to be a major currency since so few things will be sold directly by crypto.

If currency sellers farm gold and convert it to plat it does two things 1. Devalue gold 2. Devalue plat. In the long run plat will go back up in value because gold's value will be gutted. That is bad for f2p players, which is a major piece on whether hex will be successful.

1. Farm gold.
OK, no problem there, so long as it's not a bot. Using a normal gold faucet does "devalue gold" but not in any way that is not intended by the economic model. Faucets inflate, sinks deflate.

2. Convert gold to plat through the market.
No problem there either. If gold was devalued, it was from the prior step, not this step, so that's covered. Plat value is not affected by gold value (it's affected by real world currency rates, gift card deals, g2A, etc.) so it's not devalued. All Plat comes from HXE sales at some point; there is no secret faucet.

In other words, I don't think you have a valid point (yet). Please feel free to elaborate and explain what I'm missing here.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 05:29 PM
Good point. Security needs to be a major priority, no question about it. I do not believe it should deter the game from allowing gray market RMT. We now have Google Authenticator, which helps a bit.

I'm curious if MTGO has a problem with hackers? MTGO stuff obviously has RMT value.

You are forgetting about gold and how sellers hurt the value of gold and plat. I answered your question, unsure why you have not replied.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:32 PM
I am not saying that it is my opinion that players shouldn't be allowed to buy/sell plat/gold. I agree with you in that I would prefer it be allowed.

I am saying that it is forbidden according to CZE. Selling boosters, cards, mercs, sleeves etc is fine. Selling plat or gold is not.

I see. So we basically agree. For the sake of my arguments above, RMT on items only will suffice. It's annoying and awkward, but it still gets the job done with one extra step in the conversion process (plat to item to $US instead of direct plat to $US). Last I heard though, in the newer ToS thread HXE basically retracted the "items OK, currency not" statement and is now saying "please consult your lawyer" instead. Which is more or less the same line you can find from WotC regarding MTGO.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:33 PM
You are forgetting about gold and how sellers hurt the value of gold and plat. I answered your question, unsure why you have not replied.
I did. Post 86.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 05:35 PM
You are saying that it is ok for someone to farm gold and sell it to others. Or it is ok for someone to farm gold convert it to plat and sell it to others. All that does is devalue both currencies and encourages people to attempt to bot this game.

I am not sure why in the world you would want that.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:39 PM
You are saying that it is ok for someone to farm gold and sell it to others. Or it is ok for someone to farm gold convert it to plat and sell it to others. All that does is devalue both currencies and encourages people to attempt to bot this game.

I am not sure why in the world you would want that.

Gold farming devalues gold and only gold. I do not see how you get the connection to devalue plat. There is no way to farm plat. The only way to get plat is to buy it from HXE (or someone else who did so).

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 05:40 PM
A succesful bot will absolutely devalue plat.

Regardless of a bot, there will be a time where plat will be devalued, yes it will go back up. However, gold will be gutted. Gutted gold is BAD.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:43 PM
A succesful bot will absolutely devalue plat.

Regardless of a bot, there will be a time where plat will be devalued, yes it will go back up. However, gold will be gutted. Gutted gold is BAD.

I am not arguing about gold inflation here. For now just assume I agree with you that gold farming and bots that farm gold are both bad.

I am saying the plat is stable regardless of what happens to gold. Plat is controlled 100% by outside-the-game factors that have nothing whatsoever to do with gold farming. (Unless I'm missing something, which I'm hoping you'll point out to me and clarify.)

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 05:45 PM
Plat is not stable because there is a grey market not everyone is using. This grey market can convert both currencies. You can convert gold to plat easily right now. Looking at certain sites you can get huge discounts on plat, meaning it is already devalued.

The people selling it may not be from the US or Europe. I do not know where they are getting the plat. I suspect they farm gold or whatever.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:53 PM
Plat is not stable because there is a grey market not everyone is using. This grey market can convert both currencies. You can convert alot of gold to plat right now. Looking at certain sites you can get huge discounts on plat, meaning it is already devalued.

I think I see what you're getting at, and I'd like to challenge you to look at it differently. You're right in some sense. Players cashing out must always sell at a discount compared to the official store and must also undercut all other discount sellers (like fiveshards). That's basic economics. Risk has a cost. A private sale carries more risk than using an established 3rd party site and that likewise carries more risk than using the official channels. However, plat is not devalued in the way I think you're trying to imply.

Let me ask you this. You seem to be saying that preventing RMT will protect the value of plat. If you get your wish and it's impossible to convert your plat to $US, what is the value of plat (expressed in $US)?

Zero.

Falaris
08-12-2015, 05:55 PM
People arguing against being able to sell items/plat are glossing over one very important point:

This game basically EXISTS (imo of course) because of a stated promise from the outset that our collections would have value. People invested thousands of dollars (myself included) speculating that our risk was worth the reward of eventually generating value out of our initial investments. Sure, there are plenty of reasons people backed Hex. It had a great concept. A proven design/development team. A new approach to the TCG model. However, the reason a lot of people invested _thousands_ of dollars in the kickstarter is because of the hope that eventually our collections would be worth something. If we can never cash out our product that completely goes in the face of what was promised to us at the outset.

plaguedealer
08-12-2015, 05:57 PM
I hear what you are saying but plat is not the only currency. You cannot look at plat in a vacuum, you have to see the implication of rmt to gold.

Devalued gold is the ultimate conclusion to rmt. Also rmt flirts with the spectre of bots. I want people to cash out too. However, I think it should be by selling cards rather than selling currency. A f2p player who sees that grinding arena has no value could be devastating.

Yoss
08-12-2015, 05:59 PM
I hear what you are saying but plat is not the only currency. You cannot look at plat in a vacuum, you have to see the implication of rmt to gold.

Devalued gold is the ultimate conclusion to rmt. Also rmt flirts with the spectre of bots. I want people to cash out too. However, I think it should be by selling cards rather than selling currency. A f2p player who sees that grinding arena has no value could be devastating.

I would like to encourage you to make a separate thread to discuss gold inflation and protecting the F2P model. I actually am pretty sure I agree with you about it, but it's off topic from this thread.

Werlix
08-12-2015, 06:56 PM
It's the same, more or less, as the one for Hex. And yet, RMT happens non-stop for MTGO. It's just not "officially" supported. I would expect the same here.

Ok, but anyone in Hex that sells in game items/currency is still breaking the Terms of Service. You're effectively using the software in a manner that you agreed not to when you signed up.

Whether or not it's "supported" has nothing to do with my point. Running Hex so you can use your laptop as a thigh warmer also isn't "supported" by HXE, but you're not breaking the TOS by doing it.

DreamPuppet
08-12-2015, 10:42 PM
At this point i'm confused as to what is allowed and what is not.

-Selling cards for $ must be good because nobody from fiveshards is banned.
-Selling packs for $ must be good for the same reason as above.
-Selling/buying plat or gold for $ gets you banned or not??

Selling cards for plat or gold is allowed so trading someone a Wounded War Hero for 20000 platinum is therefore allowed right?

wolzarg
08-13-2015, 03:16 AM
At this point i'm confused as to what is allowed and what is not.

-Selling cards for $ must be good because nobody from fiveshards is banned.
-Selling packs for $ must be good for the same reason as above.
-Selling/buying plat or gold for $ gets you banned or not??

Selling cards for plat or gold is allowed so trading someone a Wounded War Hero for 20000 platinum is therefore allowed right?
The last one yes the other ones i lack the expertise to answer with full confidence. If i want to sell a shard of fate for 100000000 platinum i may do so and someone that wishes to buy at that price may do so.

Svenn
08-13-2015, 06:48 AM
At this point i'm confused as to what is allowed and what is not.

-Selling cards for $ must be good because nobody from fiveshards is banned.
-Selling packs for $ must be good for the same reason as above.
-Selling/buying plat or gold for $ gets you banned or not??

Selling cards for plat or gold is allowed so trading someone a Wounded War Hero for 20000 platinum is therefore allowed right?

Plat/Gold for real money can get you banned.
Anything else for real money is fine.

People can argue back and forth about the ToS and who said what and blah blah but I'm telling you I went straight to the source and asked and was told that only Plat/Gold sales will be investigated.

Hieronymous
08-13-2015, 06:51 AM
Plat/Gold for real money can get you banned.
Anything else for real money is fine.

People can argue back and forth about the ToS and who said what and blah blah but I'm telling you I went straight to the source and asked and was told that only Plat/Gold sales will be investigated.

Wait, I thought there was some way to buy discounted plat with gift cards that was kosher? I haven't actually done it, but thought it was common?

zadies
08-13-2015, 06:58 AM
Hier to use the gift card you have to make the purchase on the gameforge site. There are less scruoplious places where you can buy plat online it seems per this thread that is not buying it from the gameforge site that is linked to through the game where people will then mail you in game currency after you make a real world transaction on their site.

darkwonders
08-13-2015, 07:21 AM
I'm not sure where people are getting these discounts from.

I've scoured both G2A and Gameforge (I can't actually find a way to buy from Gameforge except through the Hex game) and haven't found a single discount. Currently the Euro to US ration on G2A is what Google says is the current exchange rate.

Hieronymous
08-13-2015, 07:23 AM
I'm not sure where people are getting these discounts from.

I've scoured both G2A and Gameforge (I can't actually find a way to buy from Gameforge except through the Hex game) and haven't found a single discount. Currently the Euro to US ration on G2A is what Google says is the current exchange rate.

Ahh, so the "discount" is just that the Euro's worth more right now, so European players can buy more plat per euro than Americans can per dollar?

First all the free health care and now this. It just seems so unfair!

darkwonders
08-13-2015, 07:27 AM
Ahh, so the "discount" is just that the Euro's worth more right now, so European players can buy more plat per euro than Americans can per dollar?

First all the free health care and now this. It just seems so unfair!

So being a US resident doesn't get my any "discount"? Cause right now it's 1.11USD:1 Euro, meaning they can spend 45 Euros to get 5000p if they buy it with USD, correct?

plaguedealer
08-13-2015, 07:28 AM
Ahh, so the "discount" is just that the Euro's worth more right now, so European players can buy more plat per euro than Americans can per dollar?

First all the free health care and now this. It just seems so unfair!

Actually the discount was because the euro was dropping in value. So effectively, the new gift card price is a price hike for non euro people. Foreign exchange markets is a complex subject.

Svenn
08-13-2015, 07:34 AM
I'm not sure where people are getting these discounts from.

I've scoured both G2A and Gameforge (I can't actually find a way to buy from Gameforge except through the Hex game) and haven't found a single discount. Currently the Euro to US ration on G2A is what Google says is the current exchange rate.
G2A was because of exchange rates. You used to be able to get 7k plat for $50 USD. I think they changed that finally. There are other places to get discounts via gift cards, but I don't know what the rules are regarding posting that stuff on the forums so PM me if you want to know.

Xexist
08-13-2015, 08:23 AM
Would ne nice if Canada rates didnt suck.

Kami
08-13-2015, 08:31 AM
Would ne nice if Canada rates didnt suck.

No kidding, we're paying about 30% more.

Thrawn
08-13-2015, 09:13 AM
People can argue back and forth about the ToS and who said what and blah blah but I'm telling you I went straight to the source and asked and was told that only Plat/Gold sales will be investigated.

Which also means it could change instantly with no notification on someone's whim.

Svenn
08-13-2015, 12:34 PM
Which also means it could change instantly with no notification on someone's whim.
And the ToS could change instantly too. It doesn't matter. People argue this shit all day, but if they decided to start banning people for real money sales of cards/boosters the game would collapse as everyone would have lost all their trust and people who are worried about the value of their collection would just cash out/quit.

If you're really worried about that, I don't know what to tell you. It would be an incredibly stupid move on their part that they have no incentive to do.

Zophie
08-13-2015, 12:56 PM
Every time this is explained people seem blissfully intent on ignoring it, but here goes:

1. You may not buy or sell currency (plat/gold) outside of the game from third parties. You will get banned if caught.
2. You may buy or sell cards/equip/mercs from your collection outside of the game from third parties, but do so at your own risk because HXE won't support you if you are scammed.

Simple as that. If anyone has a problem with this then just stop what you're doing and forget about outside sales altogether, it's safer that way anyway.

Gwaer
08-13-2015, 01:04 PM
Weird, there's no gif or image in that zophie post. He must have been hacked.

regomar
08-13-2015, 01:12 PM
No kidding, we're paying about 30% more.

Yeah, Canada's economy is sinking like a stone and our dollar is becoming more and more worthless. It's a damn shame, we were doing so well for a while.

Zophie
08-13-2015, 01:13 PM
Weird, there's no gif or image in that zophie post. He must have been hacked.

http://i.imgur.com/4fuqYvD.gif

DreamPuppet
08-13-2015, 03:27 PM
The fact is that all our collections are ultimately worthless.

It is just a matter of time before servers get shut down. It could be in 5 hours or in 50 years but it will nonetheless eventually happen.

I've always hated 1 thing about digital products and that is that you never actually own anything and they can take away your nothing whenever they want for whatever reason they choose.

So i guess all we can do is enjoy the fun game that they've made for however long they let us have it :)

Tazelbain
08-13-2015, 03:29 PM
On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

Zophie
08-13-2015, 03:31 PM
It is just a matter of time before servers get shut down. It could be in 5 hours or in 50 years but it will nonetheless eventually happen.

Just like the heat death of the universe.

Yoss
08-13-2015, 05:08 PM
50 years would be good enough for me.

Timlagor
08-13-2015, 05:13 PM
Plat is not stable because there is a grey market not everyone is using. This grey market can convert both currencies. You can convert gold to plat easily right now. Looking at certain sites you can get huge discounts on plat, meaning it is already devalued.

The people selling it may not be from the US or Europe. I do not know where they are getting the plat. I suspect they farm gold or whatever.

You keep talking as thought gold and plat can buy the same things.
While it's true that you can get cards/packs for either on the player economy, everything they buy from HEX is strictly one or the other: 100 plat will always pay for your draft entry fee (unless CZE change it deliberately: it's not subject to market forces).

Plat only enters the system when CZE 'print' it. Some of it may get sold at a discount but that's fundamentally under their control*.
Similarly cards enter the system through packs** which cost plat or are won through plat-costing competition (on average you get a better price there but there is still a plat price that simply cannot be paid with gold)


No amount of gold in the system can possibly make platinum less valuable: there might be a slight lag as people realise the plat/gold rate ain't what they thought it was but more gold means more gold/plat not cheaper plat prices. Wild fluctuations are certainly a problem for people who want to play HEX rather than market-speculation and CZE should try to defend against them but that's a different issue.

Moving Gold and Plat between players is just shuffling stuff around and doesn't affect the amount of gold, plat or cards in the system.



* I think they should have an absolute commitment not to do that as it's far more damaging to collection value than almost anything else they can do.

** Also other ways and they could certainly damage the economy by flooding the system with say AA VKs if they were thoughtless but mostly the other ways cards come in are different cards (PVE) and/or very restricted quantities (AA).

Zophie
08-13-2015, 05:17 PM
50 years would be good enough for me.

In 50 years we'll all have our brains hard wired into a VR matrix and we'll be running drafts at Saint Cory's Universal Church of Hex. His teachings will have reached everyone in the world by then and tournaments will replace war, and famine and disease will be cured by PVE, and all of mankind will find eternal salvation in Saint Cory's loving embrace. Just saying.

sukebe
08-14-2015, 02:14 AM
In 50 years we'll all have our brains hard wired into a VR matrix and we'll be running drafts at Saint Cory's Universal Church of Hex. His teachings will have reached everyone in the world by then and tournaments will replace war, and famine and disease will be cured by PVE, and all of mankind will find eternal salvation in Saint Cory's loving embrace. Just saying.

I too had this vision. Surely, this is a sign.

EntropyBall
08-14-2015, 08:43 AM
To put the reason why Platinum is not allowed in sales, let me make up a hypothetical story. This ruling imo is essentially a safety net. I'm not going to use specific countries as to avoid potentially ruffling anyone's feathers.

Example:

While the default is still to keep packs at $2US, it's obvious that Earth has lots of different monetary systems that fluctuate on a continuous basis. As such, HexEnt/Gameforge has made adjustments to other curriencies to keep the exchange rate relatively 'fair'.

However, there is great news to be known! Hex has just broadened it's monetary base and has now recognizing an interplanetary "Solar(system) United Currency Kinship" (S.U.C.K.) monetary system. Currently the ratio for S.U.C.K. to USD is 1:1. Hex hopes to use this measure to penetrate into the untapped Martian Market on Mars.

As luck would have it, after a year or so there is a growing dissension originating from Earth that Pluto has a seat on the Solar System Committee and utilizes S.U.C.K. as their official currency. As such, there are rumors that a vote may make place to oust Pluto. Trying to head off this decision, Pluto is now refusing to pay or recognize it's tremendous amount of debt the country and banks hold. As such, the S.U.C.K. ratio is spiraling out of control. Each day that goes by, the value to the USD is splitting in half. After about a month, 1Billion S.U.C.K. is worth about $1 USD.

In all this turmoil, there arose an opportunistic person person who makes a living with playing monetary markets (IGN: Hai) on Pluto. He noticed that the ratios of S.U.C.K. hadn't been updating on Gameforge and had used this to his favor. He found that he could buy Platinum with S.U.C.K. for next to nothing and then sell for USD on the grey market. As such, he created a website HaiSUCK.com and is selling platinum for 1 penny in bulk. It took Gameforge a month or so to catch on before dropping S.U.C.K. currency, but the damage was already done. Billions upon Billions of cheap currency already flooded into this game which essentially made our collections worth nothing and bankrupted HexEnt. I mean why would any gamer pay "any more than they had to" for platinum. If there was a source that was able to provide 'discounted' platinum, that is where we'd buy wouldn't me.

The only person who walked out a winner was Hai from HaiSUCK.com.

Thank you Hex for putting in these safety measures. There is no reason why you should be able to fund a third party to sell platinum at a continuous discount just because of currency exchanges. It hurts us all.

This "metaphor" is pretty much exactly what currently happens, except there is one more step where the person converts it to packs, and I don't understand why you think its good or how you think Hex is helping you. The way it is right now just hurts US players at the expense of people who use the Euro. I just bought (like 5 min ago) 7000 plat from gameforge for the equivalent of $50 USD. How does that achieve the goal of keeping packs at about $2 USD?

malloc31
08-14-2015, 09:43 AM
or they could set the prices in only one currency and then use up to the minute conversion factors to tell you how much you are paying or getting in your currency, just like EBay does. Keeping prices current are not hard in the modern age, you can buy a 99 cent app on a 20 year old phone that could do it.

Falaris
08-14-2015, 10:46 PM
or they could set the prices in only one currency and then use up to the minute conversion factors to tell you how much you are paying or getting in your currency, just like EBay does. Keeping prices current are not hard in the modern age, you can buy a 99 cent app on a 20 year old phone that could do it.

I 100% support this. There has to be a way to just automate the conversion process.

starwing
08-15-2015, 02:16 AM
People in the euro zone have to suffer the euro zone and all that entails--so a slight discount on HEX means they can play HEX... unless of course you're xenophobic and would prefer having only Americans to play with.

Gwaer
08-15-2015, 03:21 AM
People in the euro zone have to suffer the euro zone and all that entails--so a slight discount on HEX means they can play HEX... unless of course you're xenophobic and would prefer having only Americans to play with.

Man. Just got done kudoing you in another thread. This I completely disagree with. They're getting basically a 40% discount. And that is just increasing as the euro continues to lose to the dollar. Everyone should be buying plat at the same rate 100=1USD

Elwinz
08-15-2015, 04:40 AM
I was always wondering why poeple say buying it form g2a is cheap ... if i selevct my country on g2a its more thna epxzensive thna directly from gameforge

Yoss
08-15-2015, 03:44 PM
Everyone just needs to always buy plat in the cheapest (legal) way available. Vote with your money. Money talks. Right now, everyone should be avoiding the $US Hex store since the Euro store is far under priced. When all the money is flowing through the best available currency, maybe HXE will decide that having pricing in multiple currencies without tracking exchange rates isn't good for their business.

Gwaer
08-15-2015, 04:12 PM
I can't imagine that HXE is happy with the exchange rate situation. I think maybe GFs payment system just isn't setup to enable what we need. Hopefully they're working on it.

zadies
08-15-2015, 04:16 PM
Unfortunately at this point Hex doesn't have any control of how plat is brought into the system other then to ban 3rd party sales. So really all you are doing is trying to get Hex to dump gameforge, and that is if they even see the data of how plat is entering the market. Your entire premise really only works if Hex was actually the ones in control of those transactions. All your really doing in the grand scheme of things is hurting their bottom line likely to know effect at all.

Yoss
08-15-2015, 05:41 PM
Unfortunately at this point Hex doesn't have any control of how plat is brought into the system other then to ban 3rd party sales.
I find this statement highly unlikely to be true. 3rd party sales do not generate plat, only HXE/Gameforge can generate plat.

zadies
08-15-2015, 06:46 PM
No Yoss I am drawing a massive distinction between HXE and Gameforge. You choose not to.

Yoss
08-15-2015, 07:17 PM
No Yoss I am drawing a massive distinction between HXE and Gameforge. You choose not to.

Even if you separate them, you can't call GF a "3rd party" without totally changing the meaning of the term as we commonly use it.

zadies
08-15-2015, 07:38 PM
Really depends on if you call CZE a manufacture and Gameforge a storefront... makes it quite easy.

Yoss
08-15-2015, 08:48 PM
You still haven't explained what I quoted in post 134.

zadies
08-15-2015, 09:10 PM
No actually you used your point to combine gameforge/hex to dismiss my previous point I treat them as separate entities. I am saying that Hex can't control anything other then 3rd party sales. Treating them as separate entities that is the case.