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israel.kendall
08-17-2015, 09:37 PM
Someone asked for a Tribe Club discussion thread, so here it is! We'd love to hear any and all feedback on how the games are going and most importantly if you think the format is actually fun. Also feel free to talk with your fellow players here so we don't clutter the match reporting thread. Thanks everyone who entered this season and good luck!


http://i.imgur.com/k6Qj7X5.png

asdf2000
08-17-2015, 11:15 PM
Dinos are terrifying to play against if you don't have much strong removal.

Eierdotter
08-18-2015, 01:21 AM
would have been smart to ask people to make 1 post and edit in all theyr games into it.
currently i see some people playing 10 games on first day and posting 10 times flooding the thread, but fortunately i do not have to handle the data. :-)

YourOpponent
08-18-2015, 05:33 AM
would have been smart to ask people to make 1 post and edit in all theyr games into it.
currently i see some people playing 10 games on first day and posting 10 times flooding the thread, but fortunately i do not have to handle the data. :-)

I disagree actually. Yes when somebody floods with multiple matches it's annoying, but due to how the forums are it makes more sense to leave it as is. That way When the organizer is updating the lists this just have to click on "first unread" on the forums instead of having to go through pages of posts to see if any were edited (from the last time they edited and convert the forum time to their time to determine what's been edited since they last updated the list and what hasn't."

Also I was wondering if a link could be posted with current standings and points people have...possibly even complete with who they've played. That way it's easier to check out the competition and make sure you aren't accidentally challenging somebody that you played a week ago to match that can't count. Also if this gets done please post a link to it in your first or 2nd post of the other thread Israel so that some people don't accidentally miss it due to not reading this thread. Nothing personal it's just much less people read and do research on things such as strategy than there are that participate in tournaments.

israel.kendall
08-18-2015, 07:01 AM
Also I was wondering if a link could be posted with current standings and points people have...possibly even complete with who they've played. That way it's easier to check out the competition and make sure you aren't accidentally challenging somebody that you played a week ago to match that can't count. Also if this gets done please post a link to it in your first or 2nd post of the other thread Israel so that some people don't accidentally miss it due to not reading this thread. Nothing personal it's just much less people read and do research on things such as strategy than there are that participate in tournaments.

We were just talking about posting a standings. There are some negatives to it that were brought to my attention though. Negatives such as people checking other players records and not playing vs the top guys. I also see many positives to posting the rankings as well. So I'm really on the fence about it. I'd welcome any comments anyone has on this matter actually.

What do you guys think about the positives and negatives of us posting an updated standings page for the league?

pjvedder
08-18-2015, 07:09 AM
What if you do something in the middle ground, like show who you played, number of games, the week it was played, etc? That way there's at least a way to know that the games have been recorded. I definitely see what you mean about cherry-picking who you play based on standings/record, though, but I think there needs to be at least something that gives us some assurance we're getting proper credit (and our opponents are also posting the results).

YourOpponent
08-18-2015, 07:18 AM
We were just talking about posting a standings. There are some negatives to it that were brought to my attention though. Negatives such as people checking other players records and not playing vs the top guys. I also see many positives to posting the rankings as well. So I'm really on the fence about it. I'd welcome any comments anyone has on this matter actually.

What do you guys think about the positives and negatives of us posting an updated standings page for the league?

I see what you mean. That is definitely a pretty big negative and a good reason to NOT have a standings up then. I have no problem just writing down who I've played and when on a notebook instead then and agree that it's not right for some people to just decide to "not play somebody" just because they're near the top of the standings. I am also thankful that it's not required to say which Trait/Race type you and your opponent was using when the results are posted, because some people would use that information due to not wanting to go against a deck type they are weak against.


EDIT: Also I was thinking it would be cool if post-season the Top Eight's traits/races for both decks were listed...and maybe their deck lists if they're okay with that...I know I'd probably be fine with that if my decks made the top 8, because I'd just try to figure out what'd beat my deck for the next time around, but I know some people get mad when their deck's contents are revealed for the public to see.

asdf2000
08-18-2015, 08:18 AM
We were just talking about posting a standings. There are some negatives to it that were brought to my attention though. Negatives such as people checking other players records and not playing vs the top guys. I also see many positives to posting the rankings as well. So I'm really on the fence about it. I'd welcome any comments anyone has on this matter actually.

What do you guys think about the positives and negatives of us posting an updated standings page for the league?

I have kind of wondered if people do this in rock league.

israel.kendall
08-18-2015, 09:24 AM
What if you do something in the middle ground, like show who you played, number of games, the week it was played, etc? That way there's at least a way to know that the games have been recorded. I definitely see what you mean about cherry-picking who you play based on standings/record, though, but I think there needs to be at least something that gives us some assurance we're getting proper credit (and our opponents are also posting the results).

Certainly is an option to discuss.


I am also thankful that it's not required to say which Trait/Race type you and your opponent was using when the results are posted, because some people would use that information due to not wanting to go against a deck type they are weak against.

I had brought up the idea of mandating reporting of tribes played and such (I was for it originally), but the point you just presented was also presented during our discussions on how Tribe Club would work. So this is the exact reason we don't require that information to be reported.

asdf2000
08-18-2015, 09:43 AM
Certainly is an option to discuss.



I had brought up the idea of mandating reporting of tribes played and such (I was for it originally), but the point you just presented was also presented during our discussions on how Tribe Club would work. So this is the exact reason we don't require that information to be reported.

I was actually pretty annoyed when my opponent posted the tribe I played into the thread(he was the only person who reported who did so). Didn't make anything out of it though, it's whatever lol

nicosharp
08-18-2015, 09:54 AM
I have kind of wondered if people do this in rock league.
Yes, they did, and they did it in the CBB tournament. So, much so that after a bit of rough analysis, it almost looks like some accounts were made to specifically trade wins.... But it could be hyperbole... I was clued into this by a few questionable posts from a forum user and when I looked at their post history, I noticed something peculiar. anyways, enough on that. The league format is cool for all player-types, but the current iterations with limited in-game control ran off the goodness of active community members, are still easily exploitable.

Thanks for the deck-list extension Torture, I may have time to brainstorm and get lists in yet!

israel.kendall
08-21-2015, 01:02 PM
I was actually pretty annoyed when my opponent posted the tribe I played into the thread(he was the only person who reported who did so). Didn't make anything out of it though, it's whatever lol

Perhaps this is something you could speak with your opponents about during your match. While we wouldn't want to try to control what people choose to talk about, we allow two decks in Tribe Club so your opponents still wont know exactly what they'll be matched up against if the word gets out about any players decks.

Halsey
08-21-2015, 11:16 PM
I was actually pretty annoyed when my opponent posted the tribe I played into the thread(he was the only person who reported who did so). Didn't make anything out of it though, it's whatever lol

That was me, sorry about that, and sent you a bit longer PM.


Perhaps this is something you could speak with your opponents about during your match. While we wouldn't want to try to control what people choose to talk about, we allow two decks in Tribe Club so your opponents still wont know exactly what they'll be matched up against if the word gets out about any players decks.

I was more thinking along the lines of you guys wanting to be able to verify to some degree that people were running the decks they had registered. After seeing asdf2000's post I'm thinking he's probably more right. I'm playing mainly for fun, if I win something great, if not, that's great too. So I wasn't really looking at it as a highly competitive environment to start with and it didn't even occur to me to try and scout favorable match ups. Now that I've had cause to think it through, yeah there are prizes on the line, some one is going to be that guy, and enabling them probably isn't the best plan. So unless you all, (the organizers), come out and say hey we want champs and tribes reported with the results, I'll stick with IGNs and results from now on.

israel.kendall
08-22-2015, 02:27 AM
As for verifying people are playing their registered decks, if anyone thinks something fishy might be going on just email screenshots to hextribeclub@gmail.com. we know its an imperfect system, and there is a bit of integrity involved. I doubt we will run into many problems with the HEX community in general though. If someone does send in screenshots it will be kept confidential.

Graydeath
08-24-2015, 01:02 AM
So what have you decided to do about current standings and points people have?

I do it for fun, but it's a bit odd to don't know how the it is going

Cowbot
08-24-2015, 04:14 AM
I oppose posting a standing. This at least makes looking for a beneficial matchup require much more effort. We could theoretically just look at the report page and tally it up for ourselves, but that is a significant time investment, so it likely reduces how many people would do it.

israel.kendall
08-24-2015, 06:15 AM
We definitely want to listen to the feedback and concerns of players in the league, and ultimately want to make the best decision for the health of the league. I'm really hoping to hear more feedback and arguments on both sides of posting standings, but for now we won't be posting them due to the possible exploitation that can arise with players choosing their own matches.

I was trying to research online if there were any sort of matchmaking services we could use but found nothing but dating sites =/ If anyone knows of a site that could queue players and match them up perhaps we could look into using it next season. Something like that would allow us to post standings without worry of exploitation.

On another topic, how are the matches going? And most importantly is this tribal format fun? Thanks for all the feedback!

CaptRalfio
08-24-2015, 07:48 AM
Hello,

Already a week over and I still do not know how this league should works. Last week, you posted a message that the inscription deadline was pstponed until last Friday. For me, that means, that the league begins on Friday. I really would have appreciatted an official post, startng the league, all the players that will participate, and an advise that be shall find each other to play against. If this information is somewhere written, for me is impossible to find it (except the players).

Anyway, I am somewhat dissapointed, I guess for me the league is over and have not even played a single match

Thanks anyway

Ralf

israel.kendall
08-24-2015, 08:02 AM
Hello,

Already a week over and I still do not know how this league should works. Last week, you posted a message that the inscription deadline was pstponed until last Friday. For me, that means, that the league begins on Friday. I really would have appreciatted an official post, startng the league, all the players that will participate, and an advise that be shall find each other to play against. If this information is somewhere written, for me is impossible to find it (except the players).

Anyway, I am somewhat dissapointed, I guess for me the league is over and have not even played a single match

Thanks anyway

Ralf

I'm really sorry about the confusion if you thought the season started Friday. We will try to present more clear communication in the future. All we did was extend the cutoff date for joining and submitting decks, but the league continued as normal. Why do you say its over for you? There are 5 weeks to go!

CaptRalfio
08-24-2015, 08:57 AM
Hello Israel,

Thanks for your answer. Although this is a league to enjoy and have fun, I would have liked to compete from the very beginning. First week, I have not play a single game, and this does not helps if you want to take the game a little serious. I was really waiting for a post from your side, advising the start, and maybe summaring the way to play against each other. I can understand, you have enough to do with the organisation, and I would like to thank you to take your time for making possible this league, however as mentioned above, I was really confused with the start and rules.

Reagards

Ralf

asdf2000
08-24-2015, 10:03 AM
Ralfio, the way I found games was to advertise in general chat, saying for people to message me if they wanted to play tribe. Then I was patient and waited for a message :P

It can take a while though.

funktion
08-24-2015, 11:02 AM
Regarding standings I think the best option based on what everyone has said in this thread so far is to post the standings as anonymous statistics like:

Overall entrants:
# of players with 3 wins
# with 2 wins:
Etc.
That way people can figure out how they themselves are doing but can't game the system by looking for weaker players specifically.

pjvedder
08-24-2015, 11:14 AM
Regarding standings I think the best option based on what everyone has said in this thread so far is to post the standings as anonymous statistics like:

Overall entrants:
# of players with 3 wins
# with 2 wins:
Etc.
That way people can figure out how they themselves are doing but can't game the system by looking for weaker players specifically.

I think that's a pretty great idea. Another reason some kind of standings would be helpful would be to determine if it's even worth it to play tiebreaker matches. Or, if you know you're in the top 5 or so, you can at least see what your direct competition is doing.

Chemosh
08-24-2015, 01:44 PM
allright ill work on that gimmie a bit

israel.kendall
08-24-2015, 03:24 PM
Yeah we talked about your idea function and something like that does sound workable.

Chemosh
08-24-2015, 04:48 PM
Standings Data:

59/70 entrants have played games
week 1 there were 10 3-0's (This is the fact out of memory i mentioned above)

now for the current data ( basically its gonna be number of people with a number of wins, the data wont be complete till the end of week 2 as some week 2 games have been played and some people have not played thiers:

6 wins: 0
5 wins: 1
4 wins: 0
3 wins: 11
2 wins: 18
1 wins: 18
0 wins: 11 ( with games played, did not coutn people with no played games)

asdf2000
08-24-2015, 06:42 PM
edit: oops nm

YourOpponent
08-24-2015, 08:15 PM
I was thinking in the future it would be fairer if people were unable to make a new deck or sign up after the season has already started. I can understand and definitely respect your reasoning for doing it this time around, but the thing is it gives players and advantage that haven't submitted a deck yet due to them being able to study the meta before signing up. I've noticed a significant increase in people that signed up later that have been using deck choices that seem centralized around doing well in the tournament based off of them reading the results people have posted in the thread.

If you guys want to keep things how they were next time around I'm okay with that too, but I just wanted to share my opinion.

israel.kendall
08-25-2015, 04:11 AM
I was thinking in the future it would be fairer if people were unable to make a new deck or sign up after the season has already started. I can understand and definitely respect your reasoning for doing it this time around, but the thing is it gives players and advantage that haven't submitted a deck yet due to them being able to study the meta before signing up. I've noticed a significant increase in people that signed up later that have been using deck choices that seem centralized around doing well in the tournament based off of them reading the results people have posted in the thread.

If you guys want to keep things how they were next time around I'm okay with that too, but I just wanted to share my opinion.

I understand what you're talking about, and it was a concern. There were just so many people wanting to join late that we felt it would ultimately be better to have more people so players could find games more easily. Next season there will be a firm cuttoff date set from the beginning.

Assassine
08-26-2015, 05:36 PM
How does the same-opponent limit work? In week 3, can i play people again that i played against week 1?

YourOpponent
08-26-2015, 08:41 PM
How does the same-opponent limit work? In week 3, can i play people again that i played against week 1?

I'm pretty sure that is how it works.

Eierdotter
08-27-2015, 12:57 AM
i would suggest next season to make the rules for deckbuilding a little bit stricter.
for example: you can not use race as a tribe, but only traits (like: Warrior, Mage, Cleric).
would create more different decks
instead of small modified decks like: Human Gorefeast, Coyotle Control, Elf Majesty, ...

Also regarding the abuse of seeking out "weaker" opponents
i am having a hard time finding anyone for a match during my time, i take whoever is up for a game^^

same opponent limit
i understood it as follows:
i can play vs the same opponent in Week1 and Week4 leaving two weeks between, so overall you can play each opponent only 2 times.

Edit: also i would suggest for everyone to copy the participant list and paste it into a excel file, to mark who you played, thats much more convenient then digging through the 40+ pages of reported games if you are not sure.

israel.kendall
08-27-2015, 01:29 AM
Yes if you play someone week 1 you can play them again week 3

And I was hoping it would be easier for people to find matches, I'm not sure how it is with rock league but they've had a few seasons to develop. Hopefully word will spread and we'll have more players next season! I haven't had much time in HEX lately, but if I'm online I'm usually up for a match and have a Tribe Club deck. Match wouldn't count for the league, but I'm always down for a friendly game lol

pjvedder
08-27-2015, 05:37 AM
And I was hoping it would be easier for people to find matches, I'm not sure how it is with rock league but they've had a few seasons to develop. Hopefully word will spread and we'll have more players next season! I haven't had much time in HEX lately, but if I'm online I'm usually up for a match and have a Tribe Club deck. Match wouldn't count for the league, but I'm always down for a friendly game lol

This could just be specific for me and the times that I play (around 10-midnight EST), but if I don't play my matches for both Tribe and Rock within the first couple of days of the start of a new week, it becomes a real struggle to find opponents. For example, on Monday I played 4 matches between Rock and Tribe. Last night (Wednesday), it took me an hour or more to finally play 1 match. I think the majority of the people just try to get their games in right away, and then it leaves a handful of people left to try to play their matches the rest of the week (at times that don't necessarily coincide). I don't know if anyone else is seeing this, or if that's how it seems with the games being reported as well, but it's just an observation I've had.

Chemosh
08-27-2015, 06:30 AM
I have noticed from recording matches it defiantly comes heavy at start of week and slows as week goes on

Assassine
08-27-2015, 07:01 PM
Im always up for games even if i have done my 3 for the week. If you havent played me last week and need a game, just contact me, ll be available :)

vickrpg
08-28-2015, 06:37 AM
Edit: also i would suggest for everyone to copy the participant list and paste it into a excel file, to mark who you played, thats much more convenient then digging through the 40+ pages of reported games if you are not sure.

or just have one big google Doc that everyone is allowed to comment on and "suggest" their matches in. Something like that would take at most 3 minutes to make and would be fairly easy to police:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1coyZvfchW0dcdEydvPkzx84lJv8566_uPG0njnS843k/edit?usp=sharing

YourOpponent
08-30-2015, 10:30 AM
or just have one big google Doc that everyone is allowed to comment on and "suggest" their matches in. Something like that would take at most 3 minutes to make and would be fairly easy to police:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1coyZvfchW0dcdEydvPkzx84lJv8566_uPG0njnS843k/edit?usp=sharing

That could work. I think the problem is the people that are doing well though DON'T want anybody besides the tournament organizers to know their record though or who they are. Still though I'll post my stats on your spread sheet for posterity sake.

vickrpg
08-31-2015, 06:26 AM
I just made it as an example. feel free to use it if you think it's useful, but It's probably easiest to track results individually.

Jemy000
09-08-2015, 06:42 PM
I think 6 weeks may have been too long for a season. Participation is definitely dropping off, and I think this post shows why.


sorry about npot posting last night kinda passed out but yea gl in week 4 all!

recorded/updated

players with wins:

9 wins: 1
8 wins: 2
7 wins: 2
6 wins : 4
5 wins: 5
4 wins: 3
3 wins: 9
2 wins: 8
1 win: 18
0 wins: 4

The players that do poorly drop out, and the ones with good records are left scrambling for opponents. Obviously it cant be changed now, but it's a good thing to keep in mind in the future.

pjvedder
09-08-2015, 07:02 PM
oh wow.. i completely forgot it was 6 weeks. Thanks for the reminder.

But yes.. i completely agree. And I'm wondering what everyone else's thoughts are in terms of having it coincide with Rock League (or any two community-run leagues that run at the same time). I love these community-run leagues, and I appreciate what the organizers do to run them and take charge. However, I wonder if there's a bit of league-fatigue setting in as well? Having to find opponents for 6 matches or more in a week (especially if you're like me and you can only play at a certain time of the day) becomes very hard, and as Jemy pointed out, it's almost impossible to find opponents as the weeks go on, and as the week itself goes on.

I don't really have any suggestion other than maybe the 3-match-a-week system needs to go, and perhaps replaced with something a little more flexible? For example, if we're assuming 18 League-eligible games in the season, why not just say... you have 6 weeks to play 18 matches. Anything after that is a tiebreaker. I really don't know if that solves the problem, though, just a suggestion.

Again, I love these leagues. They're definitely more my speed and something i love participating in since I can't commit a whole Saturday or Sunday to a proper tournament a la Fiveshards or ESL. I just wish it were easier to find matches so i'm not sitting in front of my computer all night waiting for someone else to also need to play a game.

Cuzbot
09-09-2015, 04:09 PM
The players that do poorly drop out, and the ones with good records are left scrambling for opponents. Obviously it cant be changed now, but it's a good thing to keep in mind in the future.

I want to echo this as well. I have been losing a lot of games in this and that's fine. I built my decks for fun, I didn't realize that there would be such awesome decks in this. That was my fault. I'm sticking it out until the end, but this isn't as fun as I would have hoped.

I think you might want to consider letting people change their decks once per league, so that if they find their deck isn't performing how they thought they might have something else that could work.

YourOpponent
09-09-2015, 11:03 PM
I do have to admit that I like it how each game that counts for points (besides Tie Breaker points of course) counts as 1 entry into the raffle for door prizes...that way if you miss out on a few matches due to work or whatever...or just get tired of losing...you still have a chance to get some prizes. I agree though in the future 4 weeks would be nice. I enjoy the change in format but I think even I'll start to be tired of finding matches 2 weeks from now, but then again I usually just rack up the Tie Breaker points to help people find matches whenever I see somebody looking and I have time to kill.

Graydeath
09-10-2015, 01:38 AM
I didn't have much time to plaly this week and the last so i stuck at the games i didi the first 2 week, i'm sad for that because i like a lot this format.

Chemosh
09-17-2015, 12:31 PM
yea, we may be brainstormign a new format for future seasons, feel free to drop ideas... but a couple of the ones ive thought of are:

weekend meetups where we hold a bracketed tournament with different placements givign varying amount of points towards the league for x weeks. ( this one is pretty demanding as it makes it a particular timeslot rather then play when you want :/ so leaning away)

find a chat program for people to join and search for matches activly on ( would force peopel to use a program or site to participate but overall may be a good idea? )

pjvedder
09-18-2015, 05:10 AM
find a chat program for people to join and search for matches activly on ( would force peopel to use a program or site to participate but overall may be a good idea? )

I feel like this wouldn't work simply because if people can't currently use the custom chat room feature within Hex, they're going to be less likely to install a third-party program and check for active gamers.

asdf2000
09-18-2015, 12:56 PM
I did drop out and I am sorry, it's not really because I was doing badly, it's because life took over and I didn't have time for all the leagues and stuff I was trying to play.