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WolfCrypt
09-26-2015, 10:42 PM
So besides the Panoramic we have had 100% nothing at all about PVE this month. Which really sucks for those of us like myself who joined only for PVE. I am a patient person at times but I hate that Campaign not at a position to spoil anything besides the two near end of last month... Now I know HEXENT probably wants to spoil and have campaign out as much as any pve goers but the fact still remains that if this month is any indication they still don't have any progress which profoundly sucks. I am very hopeful that campaign be out in November but maybe I'm too optimistic.

Barkam
09-26-2015, 10:53 PM
Expect campaign to be released end of February and you won't be disappointed.

WolfCrypt
09-26-2015, 10:58 PM
They promised this year :s

Elwinz
09-26-2015, 11:34 PM
Ozawa a lot playerbase joined becaise pf PVE they promised and we also want ot have it ASAP. But your posts doesnt change anything ... I dont find you as a patient person seeing how much you write about it &&. IT will come when it bwill come end of topic.

magic_gazz
09-27-2015, 12:03 AM
They promised this year :s

I don't think they did.

Promised and aiming for are not the same thing.

Erukk
09-27-2015, 01:02 AM
I don't think they did.

Promised and aiming for are not the same thing.

+1

When it comes to game development, and life in general, you should always hope for the best but plan for the worst. So I'm hoping for a late November or early December release, but I already made it a point to imagine and ingrain it into my brain the skies opening above Hex HQ to rain bugs down upon the patch and postponing it until January or so.

Thank RNGsus HoT is coming out next month. GW2 is going to be taking up a lot of my time again and keep be occupied until PvE gets released.

IronPheasant
09-27-2015, 01:10 AM
Expect campaign to be released end of February and you won't be disappointed.

Better adjust expectations to May.

You guys who've never been in office space before: nothing gets done in Dec and Jan. Or Nov. Or Oct. Or Feb. Or the first half of Mar.

Elwinz
09-27-2015, 01:13 AM
Hey Sw:tor release was on christmas ! it was horrible unplayable but they released it !

Assassine
09-27-2015, 01:43 AM
I expect Campaign to be a Christmas gift to us. And if it wont happen, i wont be disappointed, because ill still have Christmas gifts. :D

Vorsa
09-27-2015, 02:03 AM
I'm trying to adjust my expectations to late-February, but - with a week off in November and a fortnight off in December - it's hard not to hold on to some lingering hope. :)

Probably the most reasonable level of optimism is that something fresh may land this year e.g. being able to play (or play as) mercenaries in the Arena, getting to play around with character creation & a map or two on the test server.

I do share WolfCrypt's disappointment at the lack of PvE coverage though. :(
Totally understand not wanting to show dungeons in action if final level of polish still being applied, but it's hard to believe we're two months from when they aim(ed) to release and it's not possible to share information about:

* Player character art.
* How mercenaries will work.
* Basic overview of class charge powers.
* Race traits.

Stuff on the simple/non-technical end of the spectrum that doesn't even require in-game images, but which would be good for enthusing players and getting them planning their characters.
(With the goodness that accompanies that e.g. interest in lore/role-playing, forum/guild banter.)
Maybe even spurring in-game activity, as I for one will certainly be shoring up gaps in my collection and extending art if I fell in love with a character portrait/concept and so wanted to perfect my cards of x race.

I know articles-with-content do take staff time to write, but it would literally take us to the end of 2015 now 'just' to tease one of the following each week...
1. Here are race x's character portraits and race traits (the core ones, not the race class traits).
2. Here is a basic non-specific overview of class y - charge power concept and two main talent themes.

Addendum
Since we've yet to receive PvE campaign content, we don't know for sure where Hex Entertainment fall on the content spoilers vs "all a surprise!" spectrum with regards to it.
However; I've got to think it is quite reasonable to express this if their stance is not to give any previews and simply launch the content unseen - because the longer we go without previews & still anticipating them, the more credible estimates like May start to seem.
And once set 4 is announced - which will probably be soon - those PvE estimates are likely (rightly or wrongly) to be pushed back to 3+ months after set 4 launch, which will sadly be quite a momentum quasher for people who are just passing time till PvE.

Assassine
09-27-2015, 02:21 AM
Vorsa, we already know that campaign is the next big thing. Nothing big will happen before it, it will be 100% before Set 4.

WolfCrypt
09-27-2015, 02:44 AM
Wow thanks Vorsa for the support. I know I'm kinda annoying.. But I can be patient just sometimes I get antsy cuz I'm so excited. I have to agree with Vorsa why can't we get even rough drafts of classes? Or even races positions in the campaign? I find it weird it seems they talked more about pve before they even were near finalizing it..

Clawdius
09-27-2015, 08:41 AM
Wow thanks Vorsa for the support. I know I'm kinda annoying.. But I can be patient just sometimes I get antsy cuz I'm so excited. I have to agree with Vorsa why can't we get even rough drafts of classes? Or even races positions in the campaign? I find it weird it seems they talked more about pve before they even were near finalizing it..

That's because it was the bait on the end of their hook, they used commonplace words with generally accepted meanings and allowed audience inference to give the community the idea that they knew when we would see PVE, as well as using a ton of art assets in the Kickstarter video giving them a further impression of nearly being ready for a release. I mean, who sees "MMO" and "Beta" and thinks 'Ohhhh yeah this will mean like two years of development work with almost nothing to show for the aspect of the game I'm backing for!'. Not many for sure, an MMO Beta is generally accepted nomenclature for a game that is feature complete being bug tested. They further complicated matters, first by putting the Beta release date just a few months past the end of the campaign, further signifying a game that was very close to being feature complete. In reality, they couldn't even launch the "Alpha" "stretch goal" at their projected beta launch.

They gave us a ton of lore and interesting ideas and concepts and kept us awash in information the likes of which no other Kickstarter I have backed was able to do. Obsidian didn't have any freaking concept screenshots of Project Eternity, but composed a complete game lore and all in three years. It has been two years since the game was supposedly going to launch into Beta (which I recall a number of times that community members said PVE would come out at "some point in beta", and I don't think I was the only one who didn't anticipate multiple years of beta testing) and even if the core concepts for the game have been majorly refined, and PVE launches with "THE MOST ADVANCED TCG AI EVER CREATED" instead of an AI that routinely mills itself or otherwise commits suicide I'll still feel like Hex Entertainment LLC pulled a bait and switch.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that this had less to do with deliberate disingenuous behavior than being overly excited. I still can't help but feel like someone's Nephew fresh out of college made wild promises about what they could do to make an MMO in no time flat, and some software engineers with actual experience had to come in and clean up the mess. Maybe that's not the case, but it kind of makes me feel better. I prefer to believe it was foolhardy faith in someone filled with youthful naivete, rather than a deliberate act of malice by anyone trying to make the game appear far more ready for release than it actually was.

I just have to wonder, what has been the exact cause of this interminable period of seemingly no progress being made on PVE? Hex may wind up being a better game for it, but for most games feature bloat is the cause of a lot of their time management issues. I have to wonder if Hex isn't suffering from a similar phenomenon I'll dub "Feature Tapeworms" where they create and destroy and create and destroy new ideas and seemingly none of them fatten up the skeletal figure that is Hex. Where would Hex be if they hadn't gotten millions of dollars from their Kickstarter? If they had just barely passed their 300,000 dollar goal, when would they have run out of money? Would they have actually embraced a crowd-forward development aspect instead and released content instead of keeping it behind closed doors? I guess the really scary part for the Hex Entertainment crew must be that there is so much competition on the market now, if they announced almost anything that was unique and revolutionary but was several months from being tested it's possible that some other game would implement it before Hex.

I just want some answers, a few definitive answers. If we'll see PVE this year, or this winter would be a nice start. Is there a good reason that so many bugs don't get fixed in the current live version of Hex? Is living with known issues for a quarter of a year just something we should just accept, or will we see timely fixes after PVE launch? Did you and the necromancer required to raise Tito Puente so his zombie bones can sacrifice a virgin atop El Castillo in Chichen Itza during the Autumnal Equinox reach a deal before September 23rd or do we have to wait another year before we'll see the Dragon's Blood starter deck?

So many Kickstarter projects run behind, but most of them adopt a community oriented approach where they're streaming development regularly and keep backers up to date with the latest information. The whole veil of secrecy is decidedly passť. With Hex I just have to imagine that a mad scientist has genetically manipulated leeches and infused them with bits of Giraffe and Horseshoe Crab DNA so armor plated bloodsucking 17 foot tall leech headed monstrosities are roaming the Hex Entertainment LLC offices and just keep devouring employees. In which case, I guess two years isn't really such a bad wait after all.

Svenn
09-27-2015, 09:07 AM
Giant wall of text

I've said it before and I'll say it again... developing PvE content is VERY time consuming. Far more time consuming than PvP because it needs all the core parts that are in PvP plus a TON of extra stuff (art, designs, story, scripting, etc) that means not only more time to develop but more time to test and polish.

Why did the Kickstarter make it seem like it was so close? A couple reasons. First, they are new to video game development and are used to board games. Second, they had the game development contracted out to another studio that basically died (massive layoffs then they got bought out). Crypto/HexEnt not being that familiar with game development thought the game was farther along than it was.

As for the Dragon's Blood starter... that is supposed to include a foiled Uru so we won't see that until foils are in.

Clawdius
09-27-2015, 09:46 AM
Condescending crap

Next time maybe actually take the time read a "giant wall of text" before you reply. I said everything your second paragraph said, and the foil bit about the dragon's blood starter is of course common knowledge. I'm sure they'd prefer not use any placeholder art and then have people whinge after they sold a clearly placeholder card for less than it became worth when they unveiled the actual foil art/effect, the entire bit about summoning a Zombie Tito Puente was probably a joke to add a little levity to an otherwise dour comment.

I very specifically said that I don't feel Hex Entertainment LLC was malicious in their intent. I'm not always bitter and resentful or anything, but a few times a year I might make a post that it would be nice to have a little more information with regards to where PVE is at. I probably have tens of thousands of hours connected to the Hex servers, and I've played through the arena probably more than a thousand times. I really don't think it's unreasonable to occasionally provide a contrast to all the regulars embroiled in their sunk cost fallacy, who feel that Hex can do no wrong. I myself have a lot invested in the game, but I try not to let anything make me blow smoke anymore. I was a member of the Elemental War of Magic forums during the beta tests, and made the mistake of trusting that the developers knew best and urging calm and patience on people with valid concerns.

Sorry, I've never been a member in an "MMO" community where the usual answer to threads about serious issues (I.E. non aesthetic, balance affecting issues) in the bug reports forum is "Yeah that's been a known issue for months now" and it wears on me. I know that there's probably even a reason for it, I just want to know what it is.

***Edit: This is the first I've read about anyone being contracted out, downsizing and being bought out. Got a link where I can learn more?***

Svenn
09-27-2015, 09:55 AM
***Edit: This is the first I've read about anyone being contracted out, downsizing and being bought out. Got a link where I can learn more?***

http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/15/jukebox-heroes-talking-to-hex-composer-michael-shapiro/


HEX has taken a twisty and sometimes dramatic road towards the public, and to some extent I've traveled along with it. I was brought aboard when the project was being developed by Gas Powered Games, and I was asked to write a relatively modest set of cues. After a while there was a publisher shuffle, and GPG was bought by another company.

And here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hextcg/comments/32jxmf/lawsuit_update_direct_vs_indirect_infringement/

Clawdius
09-27-2015, 10:14 AM
Interesting, I missed that interview and had never seen Gas Powered Games and Hex mentioned in the same breath before. That's information that isn't on the Hex Wikipedia entry (although that hasn't even been updated to reflect that the WOTC lawsuit has been settled) or the GPG wiki entry. Combing through Google I wasn't able to turn this up.

I guess their original projections must have been made based on the speed with which GPG was producing the game, as well as under the assumption that all of their original (admittedly less interesting) work on the talents etc on the PVE side would be implemented as it was designed.

Even so it doesn't change my opinion about post Kickstarter development much, other than giving me a better idea of why things wound up so skewed. GPG was bought out by Wargaming.net not long after the Wildman Kickstarter failed, months before Hex went to Kickstarter themselves. Thanks for the link though, it's interesting information. At the end of the day Hex may be better for being their own company and not sharing the rights with anyone.

Mahes
09-27-2015, 10:29 AM
Well, at least it is not as bad as Star Citizen. They are way behind schedule.

Lion_Slicer
09-27-2015, 11:09 AM
Anything they did release would likely be criticized and theory crafted 1000 times over. Then people would clamor for more updates on different things. And if anything changes between then and now with what they release, people would complain about that too. Waiting sucks, but it could very well be in their best interest.

Shadowspawn
09-27-2015, 12:49 PM
it is clear they are valuing the paying audience above PVE. business decision. I would expect very slow development on PVE until cash flow is positive. they clearly don't have the right/enough resources to move fast.

saffamike
09-27-2015, 01:21 PM
I wouldn't assume that at all.

magic_gazz
09-27-2015, 01:36 PM
it is clear they are valuing the paying audience above PVE. business decision. I would expect very slow development on PVE until cash flow is positive. they clearly don't have the right/enough resources to move fast.

How exactly is this clear? PvP HAS to come first as without that working there is no PvE.

Even if that was the case it would be hard to say that was a bad thing.

Scenario 1: They get PvP out the door first and get some money coming in, this allows them to develop a good PvE side to the game.
Scenario 2: The work on PvE, they release it and then go out of business due to lack of income.

Clawdius
09-27-2015, 02:01 PM
it is clear they are valuing the paying audience above PVE. business decision. I would expect very slow development on PVE until cash flow is positive. they clearly don't have the right/enough resources to move fast.

Okay but imagine this.

You go to a crowdfunding site, and see that a little Italian Ristorante wants to open up and you pledge your support. You know they haven't had a restaurant before, but they've been selling cookbooks for years and you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You do so primarily because you see that they'll be serving a bistecca con salsa delle erbe and since no one else is serving the kind of steak with herb sauce your heart desires you go ahead and back the restaurant generously specifically because of the steak. A lot of information about the restaurant is shared during the crowdfunding campaign, including pictures and descriptions of the steak you've been dreaming of, along with more steak dishes that look amazing that you had never even imagined.

Awhile goes by and the restaurant still isn't open, but you're aware of the possibilities of construction difficulties and the restaurant posts updates talking about how the entire subfloor of the building was rotting out and to pass inspection they had to do more work. Then the place opens up, and it's a pasta house. No steak on the menu, a lot of talk about upcoming pasta dishes but very little mention of any steak. You always knew there would be pasta, and while steak is still planned, when you go back and read carefully it says on the crowdfunding site that "Customers who want steak will have to wait until further in the future". Other customers in the restaurant act like you're being outrageous when you ask a server when you can expect steak to be on the menu. They tell you that clearly the profit margins on pasta are much better than those on steak, and many of the people who come for the steak may have the audacity to not even try the pasta. Entire tables full of people will probably come and not order pasta as soon as the steak is on the menu. This goes on for over a year, and even though you come by regularly for the pasta you still can't get your steak. You watch people who heard about the place come around, ask about the steak and leave. Do you have the right to be concerned that the steak you were promised still hasn't materialized? Eventually steak and farfalle gets added to the menu, but even so it's hard to even mention it when someone comes around asking about the steak, it feels like an afterthought and certainly doesn't resemble the steak you were promised. When anyone complains about the steak and farfalle they're usually told they know about the issue and will look into it. The best anyone can offer is that the next big thing the restaurant does will be to finally offer people the first taste of steak. No specific mention of how many steak dishes will be on the menu is being made, no specific talk of the date of the opening of the grill, neighbors with the inside track assure you that they've seen the grill being tested but it's just not ready for prime time. You're left with rumors and inferences, assurances that before they open another parking lot they will definitely be adding steak to the menu.

When does it become okay to ask about the steak? When does "further in the future" become disingenuous on the part of the owner of the ristorante? Why is it every time any customer mentions the word steak other customers bring up profit margins? You never made the owners promise you steak, all you did was back their project because you wanted the steak.

You'll find that in that hypothetical, as well as in Hex, none of those questions have right answers. They're all subjective, they're matters of opinion, and will never stop being so. Even if the community gets to the point where 95% of the community feels that PVE is taking too long, that will still not be the right answer.

People are quick to act like any criticism of a thing they love is somehow tearing it down. This is a rather silly viewpoint, the most poignant criticisms and the most impassioned diatribes in a community still come from people who enjoy the product and want to see it be better. People who don't care or actively dislike things just leave.

Gorgol
09-27-2015, 02:11 PM
When they announce set 4 before PVE is out, then its ok to ask. They've said their piece. next big patch will be the PVE campaign. If that doesn't come true, then by all means say/do what you want.

WolfCrypt
09-27-2015, 02:14 PM
Now when I made the thread my only concern was to wonder if Hex was a bit too busy with the lawsuit and all the tournies to have anything to do with PVE. Now if PVE isn't out till next year I might get annoyed.. But I understand they have a small company and trying their utmost best to get things done. But a simple exploration of concepts or some information would be nice. I'm more wondering why we have'nt had any info then anything else I can wait for PVE but what's bugging me is no spoilers at all maybe next friday?

AstaSyneri
09-27-2015, 02:19 PM
IMO it's fine to generally remind Hex that we have a sizable crowd of people who are waiting for PvE. It's easy for Hex / Cory to get caught up in the excitement for Limited Play, or that 100K thing. Those do not excite me, as an example - my life is determined by factors (aka family) that don't allow me to participate in any serious way (oh, those were the days, going abroad for tournaments :D).

We have a guild of now 200 members, including Vorsa and Assassine above, in which the majority confesses to lurking because there is no PvE yet. I went to gamescom to talk to Cory and he said he wants PvE to come out before end of the year. I believe that.

The technical term of course is that he "wants" it. Considering the little glimpses we saw, and the scope he lined out in broad strokes, it is clear that this might once more be a bit ambitious a time table. But I'd rather have the great campaign than some half-assed Hearthstone, so I am putting myself behind Hex here.

All that being said, I am totally with Wolfcrypt - I would very much like some more information, "proof of life" if you want, about PvE. I want the sausage factory ;-). if Wolfcrypt is impatient, I don't have to be :P.

madar
09-27-2015, 02:22 PM
The PVE is a lie.

hex_colin
09-27-2015, 02:26 PM
The PVE is a lie.

The PVE is not a lie. Check my posting history for all of the reasons why you're not going to see significant spoilers until it's almost ready - can't be bothered typing it out again. Nothing has changed. Significant progress continues to be made.

madar
09-27-2015, 02:33 PM
And btw i am totally with Clawdius. The bugs not patched, the PVE infos are not coming, not even in draft plans, like how the crafting would work, etc. Majority of the active community is smash you if you ask or comment thd lack of progress\info. They are not ready because the lawsuit. Because the unity upgrade. Because no profit. Because they busy with the hexcon. Because they had to rewrite the software. Because it's november. December. First half of marz. Because holidays. Give them time to be ready. Better to wait more than have a crap. Better to wait than have full with bugs. And so on...
And meanwhile the F10 go to end of turn still stopping at the combat phase.

AstaSyneri
09-27-2015, 02:33 PM
The PVE is a lie.

What a terrible thing to say. It may have been adjusted from the original vision, but it certainly is not a lie. That would simply be the worst marketing HXE could ever make. And now that the lawsuit has been settled, the future is so bright for this game, that you gotta wear shades!

WolfCrypt
09-27-2015, 02:42 PM
The future is so bright for this game, that you gotta wear shades!

Here comes the sun dododo.

madar
09-27-2015, 02:44 PM
The PVE is not a lie. Check my posting history for all of the reasons why you're not going to see significant spoilers until it's almost ready - can't be bothered typing it out again. Nothing has changed. Significant progress continues to be made.

I know Colin, i follow your posts, because the small info what can get, is coming from you. The last world of warcraft expansion were announced like 9 months before release, and the mmo-champion was able to give out some new info about every day. In half year, every day. Minor infos, but still. I got your point, if something details would be posted, there would be one million topics with ideas and suggestions to change and add featurex which they know already and woukd do anyway. But the solution is not to keep silent then. This game have a good fan base, and they care a lot. This have negative side too, yes. But then maybe need someone, who teling them, yes, we know this feature would be good, we planning, dunno when we have time. Yes, we know you are shard screwed sometimes, but we like this way. Will be 4 class now, and yes, we know 8 would be better, but now we have time for 4. Yes, we suck with the ah filtering too, but we focusing on other things now. And so on...

madar
09-27-2015, 02:47 PM
What a terrible thing to say. It may have been adjusted from the original vision, but it certainly is not a lie. That would simply be the worst marketing HXE could ever make. And now that the lawsuit has been settled, the future is so bright for this game, that you gotta wear shades!
It's a joke, based on the gamer sleng, which coming from the game "Portal": "the cake is a lie"

WolfCrypt
09-27-2015, 02:51 PM
It's a joke, based on the gamer sleng, which coming from the game "Portal": "the cake is a lie"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI

This cake is great!

magic_gazz
09-27-2015, 02:51 PM
Okay but imagine this.

You go to a crowdfunding site, and see that a little Italian Ristorante wants to open up and you pledge your support. You know they haven't had a restaurant before, but they've been selling cookbooks for years and you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You do so primarily because you see that they'll be serving a bistecca con salsa delle erbe and since no one else is serving the kind of steak with herb sauce your heart desires you go ahead and back the restaurant generously specifically because of the steak. A lot of information about the restaurant is shared during the crowdfunding campaign, including pictures and descriptions of the steak you've been dreaming of, along with more steak dishes that look amazing that you had never even imagined.

Awhile goes by and the restaurant still isn't open, but you're aware of the possibilities of construction difficulties and the restaurant posts updates talking about how the entire subfloor of the building was rotting out and to pass inspection they had to do more work. Then the place opens up, and it's a pasta house. No steak on the menu, a lot of talk about upcoming pasta dishes but very little mention of any steak. You always new there would be pasta, and while steak is still planned, when you go back and read carefully it says on the crowdfunding site that "Customers who want steak will have to wait until further in the future". Other customers in the restaurant act like you're being outrageous when you ask a server when you can expect steak to be on the menu. They tell you that clearly the profit margins on pasta are much better than those on steak, and many of the people who come for the steak may have the audacity to not even try the pasta. Entire tables full of people will probably come and not order pasta as soon as the steak is on the menu. This goes on for over a year, and even though you come by regularly for the pasta you still can't get your steak. You watch people who heard about the place come around, ask about the steak and leave. Do you have the right to be concerned that the steak you were promised still hasn't materialized? Eventually steak and farfalle gets added to the menu, but even so it's hard to even mention it when someone comes around asking about the steak, it feels like an afterthought and certainly doesn't resemble the steak you were promised. When anyone complains about the steak and farfalle they're usually told they know about the issue and will look into it. The best anyone can offer is that the next big thing the restaurant does will be to finally offer people the first taste of steak. No specific mention of how many steak dishes will be on the menu is being made, no specific talk of the date of the opening of the grill, neighbors with the inside track assure you that they've seen the grill being tested but it's just not ready for prime time. You're left with rumors and inferences, assurances that before they open another parking lot they will definitely be adding steak to the menu.

When does it become okay to ask about the steak? When does "further in the future" become disingenuous on the part of the owner of the ristorante? Why is it every time any customer mentions the word steak other customers bring up profit margins? You never made the owners promise you steak, all you did was back their project because you wanted the steak.

You'll find that in that hypothetical, as well as in Hex, none of those questions have right answers. They're all subjective, they're matters of opinion, and will never stop being so. Even if the community gets to the point where 95% of the community feels that PVE is taking too long, that will still not be the right answer.

People are quick to act like any criticism of a thing they love is somehow tearing it down. This is a rather silly viewpoint, the most poignant criticisms and the most impassioned diatribes in a community still come from people who enjoy the product and want to see it be better. People who don't care or actively dislike things just leave.

Thanks, now I want a steak.

plaguedealer
09-27-2015, 03:50 PM
The last few weeks have been very important for Hex. I completely understand why no new pve info recently. By the end of October, I would hope to hear some more info on skill trees, etc.

There have been many people eagerly waiting for pve for years now so yea. Pve should be the next major content patch. Pve is more important then any tournament or new set imo.

Phenteo
09-27-2015, 04:14 PM
PvE is coming. Relax.

HEX is an absolutely huge undertaking and will only get bigger. We're working as hard and as diligently as possible to help satisfy both PvP and PvE players, and any other type of player in-between. It's our hopes that this 100K tournament will bring a lot of newer players who will also spend money. That money can then be used to hire additional staff to help design, engineer, and test future PvE and PvP content.

You will definitely see more PvE focused content coming out. ;)

Svenn
09-27-2015, 05:06 PM
It's not about PvP being more profitable. It's about the development necessary for each. PvP requires matches working, and some tournament support. PvE requires all of that (including tournament support for things like the arena dungeon) and then a shitload of content and extra programming on top of that. The actual content design, scripting, art, writing, etc is INCREDIBLY time consuming... far more than the PvP stuff.

PvE = PvP plus several thousand man hours of work. It's not physically possible for the PvE to exist without the PvP already being done.

TJTaylor
09-27-2015, 05:17 PM
Telling people to relax is all well and good but I honestly don't understand why you guys don't give the community regular updates and/or previews of small things related to PvE to keep people excited. The people waiting for PvE understandably get antsy if they go too long without some info. But just give them a little morsel and they are good for a month or so. Would it really kill you guys to throw people a bone once a month to keep the PvE people engaged? I mean you have to admit, these poor guys and gals really have been waiting a very long time and you can only grind the arena so much before you want to put your head through your monitor.

As a PvP focused player, I appreciate all the updates we get regarding that side of the game but I'm sure that can be frustrating to the people waiting for PvE when just about every single communication and development from you guys is for PvP. Third party testimonials don't count. Nobody cares if some guy posts "I saw it yesterday. It's real and it's awesome!" These people just want to see things for themselves so that they can get just as excited as that guy seems to be all the time.

Nothing major. Just little things. A piece of PvE art here. A champion ability there. A tidbit about a dungeon mechanic. Perhaps game lore? Release the Loregoyle! I'm sure he alone could keep these PvE hopefuls entertained with his word sorcery for years, let alone months until PvE was ready.

Sure some people will probably complain about stuff you might share. That's what people do when they dislike something. But we've definitely got people complaining about lack of info right now. IMO it is far better for people to express displeasure about some future feature they may not like, which will prompt constructive conversation about the game, than to express displeasure about getting no information at all. That is something that will only prompt these kinds of threads where people new the game read about how long things are taking with little communication from your company on the subject. To me, one is clearly worse than the other.

I also don't think that things being subject to change is a good reason not to provide this information either. Not when you could simply say that this is stuff currently under development and can change at any time. Yeah I know there will be people who will read "subject to change" as "we promise you will get exactly this, on pain of death should we not deliver" but it isn't like there aren't a mob of supporters to correct them for you the instant they cry foul.

I don't doubt your company's intentions. I know you guys mean well in every single thing you do. But I think your tendency to keep such a tight lip about everything PvE is misguided. It would be fine if things were being released in a timely manner on a consistent basis. But HEX is simply not at that point right now. Things get delayed. A lot. And we can go for long stretches with nothing new. And at the apex of that is PvE. This is not a criticism. I know you are doing the best you can with the resources you have. But people are less likely to be upset when things are delayed or just coming along slowly, if they are kept involved in the process rather than being left in the dark. Staying silent about stuff people are waiting desperately for is only going to make them lose interest at best or rage and badmouth it to anyone that will listen at worst.

You need to keep your PvE backers engaged and reproduce the magic that got those backers so excited for anyone new who comes along because this is likely to be the majority of your player base. If you want to do that, you have to continuously share your amazing vision for PvE in HEX and frequently back it up with evidence of your progress. "It's coming, we're super cereal", "Soon (TM)", or "Watch Cory's pitch in our two year old kickstarter video" isn't going to inspire confidence or raise morale.

mudgee01
09-27-2015, 05:33 PM
HEX is an absolutely huge undertaking and will only get bigger. We're working as hard and as diligently as possible to help satisfy both PvP and PvE players, and any other type of player in-between. It's our hopes that this 100K tournament will bring a lot of newer players who will also spend money. That money can then be used to hire additional staff to help design, engineer, and test future PvE and PvP content.

Surely the 100k could be better spent on the additional staff in the short term. I cant see how you expect new players to join to play in this tournament. Seems like a pipe dream. They won't have the cards to compete nor the experience.

dogmod
09-27-2015, 05:47 PM
Surely the 100k could be better spent on the additional staff in the short term. I cant see how you expect new players to join to play in this tournament. Seems like a pipe dream. They won't have the cards to compete nor the experience.

They are having a 100k tournament for which they will develop an ad campaign to advertise their game. This advertisement will hopefully be more enticing to Joe Schmoe on the Internet than your generic gif advertising. It will also hopefully reenergize some of the current player base who have become inactive.

parogui
09-27-2015, 05:48 PM
Surely the 100k could be better spent on the additional staff in the short term. I cant see how you expect new players to join to play in this tournament. Seems like a pipe dream. They won't have the cards to compete nor the experience.

Because I think it's obvious that spending those 100k is going to give them way more in the long run. Short term thinking won't get Hex so far. And it's not a pipe dream, many players will start investing in top tier decks as it's different to win an AA card in VIP or some boosters in community events to cash prizes. $$$$ is always a big drawer. I expect to see a stronger competitive OP in 2016.

Yoss
09-27-2015, 08:10 PM
pack of ravenous wolves

regomar
09-27-2015, 08:36 PM
it is clear they are valuing the paying audience above PVE. business decision. I would expect very slow development on PVE until cash flow is positive. they clearly don't have the right/enough resources to move fast.

I am absolutely sick to death of people claiming that PvE players are not a 'paying audience'. I backed at King level and have spent hundreds of dollars since and I'm a PvE player that barely touches tournaments and I'm FAR from the only one. Stop generalizing.

WolfCrypt
09-27-2015, 08:39 PM
Now I honestly believe that Hex will release PVE this year and I'm hopeful it'll be within next two months but my main concern is not when PVE is out but what progress is being made. Like several people mentioned earlier I'm more antsy the only thing we got regarding pve this month was an itty bitty panoramic. Heck we didn't even get information on how a panoramic will work! (I certainly never heard the word till Hex) I have faith in Hex and hope it'll become as popular as WoW but looking at Into Forest and Warrior's Got Talent so many times can only be fun for so long.

regomar
09-27-2015, 08:42 PM
Surely the 100k could be better spent on the additional staff in the short term. I cant see how you expect new players to join to play in this tournament. Seems like a pipe dream. They won't have the cards to compete nor the experience.

This is also my concern. With the increasing rarity and price increases of tournament staples like Vampire King, getting a good constructed deck is harder and harder, mostly because few people are opening up packs of set 1 and 2 where most of the staples are. Just watch the sales charts for the good cards. Prices are going up, up, up because there are so few new ones cracked since there's no reason to buy set 1 and 2 packs anymore for most current players unless they're just cracking them for the hell of it which is typically a losing game money-wise.

AstaSyneri
09-28-2015, 12:07 AM
I am absolutely sick to death of people claiming that PvE players are not a 'paying audience'. I backed at King level and have spent hundreds of dollars since and I'm a PvE player that barely touches tournaments and I'm FAR from the only one. Stop generalizing.

Absolutely. Why else would have a guild like TUC have 200 members - even though there is not the slightest guild support in the game yet? We have everything from new players to Kings, Raid Leaders, Dungeon Crawlers, Grand Kings. Few of those are PvP regulars.


This is also my concern. With the increasing rarity and price increases of tournament staples like Vampire King, getting a good constructed deck is harder and harder, mostly because few people are opening up packs of set 1 and 2 where most of the staples are. Just watch the sales charts for the good cards. Prices are going up, up, up because there are so few new ones cracked since there's no reason to buy set 1 and 2 packs anymore for most current players unless they're just cracking them for the hell of it which is typically a losing game money-wise.

Not an issue. When the price of the cards goes up, the incentive is there to crack packs and sell the cards. Economics 101.


PvE is coming. Relax.

HEX is an absolutely huge undertaking and will only get bigger. We're working as hard and as diligently as possible to help satisfy both PvP and PvE players, and any other type of player in-between. It's our hopes that this 100K tournament will bring a lot of newer players who will also spend money. That money can then be used to hire additional staff to help design, engineer, and test future PvE and PvP content.

You will definitely see more PvE focused content coming out. ;)

How about now? We know you have the art - just give us some AI-only PvE cards (one at a time every other day) and you can shut up all of us PvE gluttons ;-).

velk
09-28-2015, 03:51 AM
Why did the Kickstarter make it seem like it was so close? A couple reasons. First, they are new to video game development and are used to board games. Second, they had the game development contracted out to another studio that basically died (massive layoffs then they got bought out).

The 'dog ate my homework' excuse is met with some skepticism when it's current - two years after the dog died it's not compelling enough to even get eyerolls from teenagers.

A less trusting person might find it suspect that apparently none of the design for PVE is finalized enough to elaborate on it even now. I'd suggest anyone willing to swallow the idea that it was all pretty much done pending some programming implementation when the kickstarter launched might want to avoid sales pitches about famous bridges.

AstaSyneri
09-28-2015, 07:13 AM
It's not like they have delivered nothing. Hex as it is is a pretty compelling game. Am I having fun? Hell, yes. Trying to do 45 perfect runs with different champions does keep me quite busy, thank you.

The game is already very good and PvE can only make it better.

Silvanos
09-28-2015, 07:51 AM
Telling people to relax is all well and good but I honestly don't understand why you guys don't give the community regular updates and/or previews of small things related to PvE to keep people excited.
...
You need to keep your PvE backers engaged and reproduce the magic that got those backers so excited for anyone new who comes along because this is likely to be the majority of your player base. If you want to do that, you have to continuously share your amazing vision for PvE in HEX and frequently back it up with evidence of your progress. "It's coming, we're super cereal", "Soon (TM)", or "Watch Cory's pitch in our two year old kickstarter video" isn't going to inspire confidence or raise morale.

This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about it.

If you really just want the PVE in this game and don't care about PVP, just go find a different game to play and check in again in 2016. You will be happier that way. If you have the resources to do it though, give the PVP game an honest try. I backed this solely to play PVE, telling myself I wouldn't play PVP, and I found that I really enjoy draft and sealed. All my other friends backed for the same reason and never got into PVP, so they literally just ignore the game and occasionally ask me if anything is happening on PVE.

plaguedealer
09-28-2015, 08:33 AM
This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about it.

If you really just want the PVE in this game and don't care about PVP, just go find a different game to play and check in again in 2016. You will be happier that way. If you have the resources to do it though, give the PVP game an honest try. I backed this solely to play PVE, telling myself I wouldn't play PVP, and I found that I really enjoy draft and sealed. All my other friends backed for the same reason and never got into PVP, so they literally just ignore the game and occasionally ask me if anything is happening on PVE.

So basically what you are saying is that Hex should release more info about pve and pve players should not "check in" with Hex until 2016?

WolfCrypt
09-28-2015, 09:05 AM
If I do that I might forget bout Hex I have a profoundly short attention span.

Showsni
09-28-2015, 09:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPUNsN-0Lz4

Shaqattaq
09-28-2015, 10:35 AM
Ideally, we would've featured PVE content this past Friday. But, with two huge announcements coming at the end of the week in the lawsuit resolution and the $100K tournament dates, that PVE information probably would've played third-fiddle. Not even second fiddle! So, I'm trying to put something in within the next two weeks that showcases something PVE.

Trickling in PVE content-- incomplete content-- for the last two years would've been a disservice to the fanbase. To start, we had to complete the PVP portion of the game as a foundation before we could complete PVE. PVE doesn't really work if you can't play a game of HEX. As we've moved forward and could have shown in-progress features, players (and others) would form their opinions about the game before they're able to actually touch PVE. It would be all based on some panoramas without particle effects, PVE cards without the deeper equipment and card designs, systems like MIGHT that didn't even make it, etc...

And perhaps most importantly, PVE spoilers or web content wouldn't have made PVE happen sooner, but it could have pushed it further in the future. When we create content, it requires collaboration between departments and takes time from engineers, artists, and others who are specifically making PVE happen. An individual YouTube video or article is some small amount of time taken away from one or two of those team members, but then multiply that for how many articles or videos that players would've wanted since the Kickstarter ended and suddenly we're talking about a month or two worth of time.

Of course, there are instances where we showed in-progress work in respect to those who would like any sort of content, but those were all for respective specific reasons and usually overlapped with some other project to minimize time demands on team members.

As for the PVE launch content itself, players can expect a great amount of content across the web-- fansites, media websites, the HEXTCG.com page-- on multiple platforms. We're excited to get that out to you, and PVE will be the next major feature launched in the game. Once we can share that release date, you'll see a great amount of content so though this may seem like an empty platitude at this time, we have to ask for some patience as we work to finish this latest feature. And for that, we all greatly appreciate all the understanding our community has shown.

Vorsa
09-28-2015, 11:10 AM
Thanks, Shaqattaq. :cool:

WolfCrypt
09-28-2015, 12:30 PM
Oh well now I feel bad after reading Shaq haha sorry.

Phenteo
09-28-2015, 02:04 PM
Telling people to relax is all well and good but I honestly don't understand why you guys don't give the community regular updates and/or previews of small things related to PvE to keep people excited. The people waiting for PvE understandably get antsy if they go too long without some info. But just give them a little morsel and they are good for a month or so. Would it really kill you guys to throw people a bone once a month to keep the PvE people engaged? I mean you have to admit, these poor guys and gals really have been waiting a very long time and you can only grind the arena so much before you want to put your head through your monitor.
We did post some PvE content within the last month in our Friday Update - Sounds Good to Me. Yes, players have been waiting a long time for PvE, but you may be ignoring the fact that a small portion of PvE has been released already. Now, I understand that PvE players want new content. I want new PvE content to be available already. I play the arena very often and I am waiting for more PvE content as well. It takes a long time for additional PvE content to be designed, play tested, engineered, QA'd, art created, etc. We've also stated multiple times that, after set 3, our primary focus of development is on PvE. We know that PvE will drive a huge increase in activity for HEX. But please remember this is still a very small team. On a similar note, we give regular updates as much as possible but sometimes there is no further development on something we can talk about. I don't want this link to get burried, but this is a well done article on the gaming industry and communications: http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/126941182591/do-you-ever-feel-like-the-industry-is-too


As a PvP focused player, I appreciate all the updates we get regarding that side of the game but I'm sure that can be frustrating to the people waiting for PvE when just about every single communication and development from you guys is for PvP. Third party testimonials don't count. Nobody cares if some guy posts "I saw it yesterday. It's real and it's awesome!" These people just want to see things for themselves so that they can get just as excited as that guy seems to be all the time.
There will be times where PvE will be the main focus and not much will be said about PvP. It will be an ebb and flow.


Nothing major. Just little things. A piece of PvE art here. A champion ability there. A tidbit about a dungeon mechanic. Perhaps game lore? Release the Loregoyle! I'm sure he alone could keep these PvE hopefuls entertained with his word sorcery for years, let alone months until PvE was ready.
We have been doing that. Our last PvE update was September 4, and the previous one was August 21st. You're giving ideas for content that we already release but are choosing to ignore somehow? At this point it really feels like the blame is being placed on the wrong reasons. Players who only care about PvE or those who really want PvE to be here will only be satisfied with actually being able to play PvE. Small tidbits of information, which we are releasing at specific time-frames and will get increasingly so closer to launch, isn't enough to satiate the desire to play and experience the content hands-on.


Sure some people will probably complain about stuff you might share. That's what people do when they dislike something. But we've definitely got people complaining about lack of info right now. IMO it is far better for people to express displeasure about some future feature they may not like, which will prompt constructive conversation about the game, than to express displeasure about getting no information at all. That is something that will only prompt these kinds of threads where people new the game read about how long things are taking with little communication from your company on the subject. To me, one is clearly worse than the other.
Actually, sharing something that causes complaints can be far worse and more detrimental than not releasing any information about a piece of content. Video gamers are very fickle when it comes to these things and, if someone decides to leave the game over something, then we lose out. There is a chance to re-gain that player, but that chance is small. They say bad news is better than no news at all... I don't ascribe to this and I've seen it hurt many other games (even movies). And, again, it's not like we haven't said anything about PvE or released anything about PvE in the last several months to a year.


I also don't think that things being subject to change is a good reason not to provide this information either. Not when you could simply say that this is stuff currently under development and can change at any time. Yeah I know there will be people who will read "subject to change" as "we promise you will get exactly this, on pain of death should we not deliver" but it isn't like there aren't a mob of supporters to correct them for you the instant they cry foul.
Actually, you bring up a very good point. Releasing something before its ready is HUGELY detrimental to a game. This includes information and content. It's not up until closer to release where things are finalized. William and I spend a lot of time finessing and gauging with what content can be released ahead of time in order to help keep the hype train running along. But many aspects are subject to change. One example is when we were doing card spoils, we were given the image and text of a few cards before set 3 launched which ended up changing (for the better usually). And, no matter how many CYA text blurbs you put, only a few will understand what they're looking at is a prototype. Also, if we start releasing content before it is ready, this is more of a disservice to the players and our community. William did a great job of explaining this:

Trickling in PVE content-- incomplete content-- for the last two years would've been a disservice to the fanbase. To start, we had to complete the PVP portion of the game as a foundation before we could complete PVE. PVE doesn't really work if you can't play a game of HEX. As we've moved forward and could have shown in-progress features, players (and others) would form their opinions about the game before they're able to actually touch PVE. It would be all based on some panoramas without particle effects, PVE cards without the deeper equipment and card designs, systems like MIGHT that didn't even make it, etc...


I don't doubt your company's intentions. I know you guys mean well in every single thing you do. But I think your tendency to keep such a tight lip about everything PvE is misguided. It would be fine if things were being released in a timely manner on a consistent basis. But HEX is simply not at that point right now. Things get delayed. A lot. And we can go for long stretches with nothing new. And at the apex of that is PvE. This is not a criticism. I know you are doing the best you can with the resources you have. But people are less likely to be upset when things are delayed or just coming along slowly, if they are kept involved in the process rather than being left in the dark. Staying silent about stuff people are waiting desperately for is only going to make them lose interest at best or rage and badmouth it to anyone that will listen at worst.
We arenít intentionally staying silent about PvE content. We know that PvE is absolutely vital to the game, but there is a lot more than goes into it than just being able to type a post and say itís easy to just release small tidbits about PvE or other in-development content.

Yuhan
09-28-2015, 02:16 PM
All this stuff about PvE and you guys not releasing incomplete content..

Great and all but you're just hyping us up for a letdown if you don't deliver.
Complete can mean anything. Does it mean you will add the campaign, mercenaries, equips, and talents?
Does it mean you're releasing co-op multiplayer content like dungeons and raids?
Complete can mean a lot or very little too.

Phenteo
09-28-2015, 02:22 PM
All this stuff about PvE and you guys not releasing incomplete content..

Great and all but you're just hyping us up for a letdown if you don't deliver.
Complete can mean anything. Does it mean you will add the campaign, mercenaries, equips, and talents?
Does it mean you're releasing co-op multiplayer content like dungeons and raids?
Complete can mean a lot or very little too.

We do show in-progress content. We did with the panorama and the talent tree. Both of those were not complete, but we're fairly certain that they will make it into the game and not require time for a dev to sit and explain why we talked about content and then had to remove it. That can be an even greater disappointment.

Clawdius
09-28-2015, 02:46 PM
I just want to point out that there's a lot of content that you guys produce that won't change. Art is a great example, the card text or cost can all be variable for balance reasons but the art isn't going to change. An explanation of what something is isn't even required all the time. Just dropping in some cool card art from the upcoming PVE content would be nice. Show us some art for the starting classes for all the races and if you do a Friday update a week and "spoil" that art you'd have enough of it to drop one in each article for nearly a year.

It's not that those of us who are vocal about wanting more aren't appreciative of what you folks at Hex Entertainment LLC do. Personally I just start to gnash my teeth when I see people's immediate reaction at the start of a thread like this is basically "quit asking about it, it's going to get here". I've watched so many games developed off Kickstarter funds taking on so much crowd support in the form of testing and seeing that Hex isn't outwardly already bug stomping like mad is disconcerting. Just recently I've watched Skyshine's Bedlam launch to mixed reviews on the back of spending a grand total of 5 days in "early access" that some backers effectively paid 5 bucks to be part of. Their feedback and actual time spent with it might have made a difference in the launch reviews and sales.

Perhaps instead of looking at trying to give us an exact timeframe to launch you might consider giving people an idea if or when the Test server will launch containing some PVP content. I love breaking things, finding solid repro on a bug is my idea of a good time. You wouldn't necessarily want to let us into the whole kit and caboodle, but some new AI to bash on and some character classes to advance might be nice for the community and helpful for you. After all, you've got 48 class and race combos, getting all that tested with every trait and keystone combo with private QA seems like it would be an absolute nightmare. Just keep us in mind, you've got a lot of fans who are willing to help and beating Cerebral Fulmination Xarlox just isn't doing it for all of us anymore.

Phenteo
09-28-2015, 02:55 PM
I just want to point out that there's a lot of content that you guys produce that won't change. Art is a great example, the card text or cost can all be variable for balance reasons but the art isn't going to change. An explanation of what something is isn't even required all the time. Just dropping in some cool card art from the upcoming PVE content would be nice. Show us some art for the starting classes for all the races and if you do a Friday update a week and "spoil" that art you'd have enough of it to drop one in each article for nearly a year.
Art actually does change. But art is easier to show than other pieces. We are planning on releasing more art and content though. These things take time and are much hard to schedule and plan and release than it is to just ask for it or say that we should post that. William pointed out that it takes time away from the designers or engineers and other team members to ensure things are correct or explained appropriately. We also have to coordinate and schedule with our business partners who need time to localize. We show have shown pieces of content or art that hadn't been finalized (even recently with the panorama).



Perhaps instead of looking at trying to give us an exact timeframe to launch you might consider giving people an idea if or when the Test server will launch containing some PVP content. I love breaking things, finding solid repro on a bug is my idea of a good time. You wouldn't necessarily want to let us into the whole kit and caboodle, but some new AI to bash on and some character classes to advance might be nice for the community and helpful for you. After all, you've got 48 class and race combos, getting all that tested with every trait and keystone combo with private QA seems like it would be an absolute nightmare. Just keep us in mind, you've got a lot of fans who are willing to help and beating Cerebral Fulmination Xarlox just isn't doing it for all of us anymore.
Unfortunately I cannot do that right now. And it's not because I don't want to, it's because I can't release timing for something like this without having other pieces set in stone. Also, if we release dates before we're ready to, we couldn't utilize the media to help spread information about the game as well.

TJTaylor
09-28-2015, 10:55 PM
Your recent efforts were nice and appreciated. They were also well overdue. I'm just saying more could be done on a regular basis to help keep the PvE folks interested.

How many PvP cards were spoiled that either were changed completely or never made it in at all? Was the act of spoiling those cards detrimental to the game? I don't see why PvE is any different.

Chadatog
09-28-2015, 11:51 PM
I thought the thread title was a play on the movie "A Day Without Mexicans"

AstaSyneri
09-29-2015, 02:36 AM
He, *sigh*, we of course knew that. We have been here before. While some of us "old hands" might want the sausage factory, we are not in fact the target group that has to be eyed. The "unwashed masses" out there are the ones that need to be drawn in, for the benefit of all.

THANKS for taking the time to explaining it once again. We do understand.

Now - can you give us the artwork of one of 'dem Gnolls?! :P :P :P

WolfCrypt
09-29-2015, 02:42 AM
Now - can you give us the artwork of one of 'dem Gnolls?! :P :P :P

Gnolls?? I wanna see some Champ artwork

rjselzler
09-29-2015, 09:56 AM
Gnolls?? I wanna see some Champ artwork

The gnoll request is likely in reference to the early spoil of the Junkyard Dog (https://www.hextcg.com/adventure-awaits/) map.

Note that the set 3 gnoll, Scraptooth Cackler (http://www.hexprimal.com/product/scraptooth-cackler/), is a member of the gnoll clan occupying the junkyard. There's some PvE some newer players may never have seen. ;)

zadies
09-29-2015, 04:05 PM
It's not about PvP being more profitable. It's about the development necessary for each. PvP requires matches working, and some tournament support. PvE requires all of that (including tournament support for things like the arena dungeon) and then a shitload of content and extra programming on top of that. The actual content design, scripting, art, writing, etc is INCREDIBLY time consuming... far more than the PvP stuff.

PvE = PvP plus several thousand man hours of work. It's not physically possible for the PvE to exist without the PvP already being done.

That was fine for the first set... and maybe the second. The line was crossed for me on the third and the development of the 100k tournament. I'm sorry but as I see it they pushed PvE to the way side to do all the massive server tests the tournament structure for 100+ people did not need to be in place for PvE and it shows specifically where the focus is.

Phenteo
09-29-2015, 04:11 PM
That was fine for the first set... and maybe the second. The line was crossed for me on the third and the development of the 100k tournament. I'm sorry but as I see it they pushed PvE to the way side to do all the massive server tests the tournament structure for 100+ people did not need to be in place for PvE and it shows specifically where the focus is.

For sake of clarity:

1.) Gameforge is the one who is producing the 100k Tournament not HEX. The tournament will not take away engineering resources from PvE.

2.) The large-scale test tournament was needed to ensure a smooth transition for the large tournament and did not take any, if at all minimal, engineering resources (still not from PvE).

3.) Several upgrades to Unity were made and we had to transition to the newer versions. These changes required extra work and pushed PvE back. It was easier to launch set 3 as we've already built a great foundation for releasing sets and we feel that we're getting more efficient at this process. Also, keeping card sets rotating in will keep the game fresh. Keep in mind, you CAN use PvP cards in PvE therefore enhancing PvE gameplay and various deck metas for PvE play.

Shaqattaq
09-29-2015, 04:38 PM
Your recent efforts were nice and appreciated. They were also well overdue. I'm just saying more could be done on a regular basis to help keep the PvE folks interested.

How many PvP cards were spoiled that either were changed completely or never made it in at all? Was the act of spoiling those cards detrimental to the game? I don't see why PvE is any different.

Ultimately, that content has real time costs as I mentioned in my previous post and the interest generated has nowhere to go because the feature isn't ready to launch. There isn't more that could have been done with all other things considered to keep people interested. The cards have the same issue-- I can show you cards, but they'll probably change in development. After the player sees the card, their excitement dissipates because there's nothing to channel it into like an upcoming date or the launch itself. Now we've begun to make that player numb to the content, and we don't have that content for the future when it would ideally be part of an entire PVE marketing campaign.

thegreybetween
09-29-2015, 05:42 PM
Now we've begun to make that player numb to the content, and we don't have that content for the future when it would ideally be part of an entire PVE marketing campaign.

Well said. I have become numb to hollow PvE spoilers. I am very, very much looking forward to PvE release, but frankly I prefer that you keep your spoilers under wraps until there is enough meat on the bone to let us chew some fat. Every time I open my stash and see dead-eyed mercenaries staring back at me, encouraging me to pour over two years of sparse, conflicting information about what they will eventually do, I become acutely aware of just how far we still need to go. Then I go and open a few chests, slap a piece of equipment onto my canned champion, and appreciate just how far we've come. PvE is coming, and it will be good - so it was written, so let it be done. But I've pulled the petals from my allotment of mental spectral lotuses while pining away for the idea of it, and have learned to keep myself busy with other pursuits while I nurse the flickering candle that will one day blaze in PvE glory.

When you *know* what mercenaries will actually do, please don't hesitate to let us know. But yeah, we really don't need more misinformation to obsess over for the intervening months. Feed us real stuff and let us learn to fend for ourselves if the scraps would starve us; imaginary cheeseburgers spoil just like the rest of 'em if they're left on the counter long enough.

Hatts
09-29-2015, 06:07 PM
My faith in PvE is a 2 year old McDonalds cheeseburger that refuses to spoil.

rjselzler
09-30-2015, 09:32 AM
Ultimately, that content has real time costs as I mentioned in my previous post and the interest generated has nowhere to go because the feature isn't ready to launch. There isn't more that could have been done with all other things considered to keep people interested. The cards have the same issue-- I can show you cards, but they'll probably change in development. After the player sees the card, their excitement dissipates because there's nothing to channel it into like an upcoming date or the launch itself. Now we've begun to make that player numb to the content, and we don't have that content for the future when it would ideally be part of an entire PVE marketing campaign.

I agree. Cards with zero context or deadline are wind. I mean, we have a ton of those from the Kickstarter already (Orson's Dream, Lotus, Scourge Knight, etc.). Of course we're all ravenous for PvE, but I think that CZE has also done a good job in holding off updates until they are sufficient enough to provide some real context. How cool would the warrior tree have been if we had only seen like two talents? That would have meant nothing, really! Instead, we get some context: the talent flow, costs, and overall trees.

I'm looking forward to a spoiler on the level of the Junkyard Dog spoiler from 2013, with pictures of dungeons, cards, and hints to mechanics. That would be meaningful for me. Simply showing me the art for a gnoll doesn't do much; not even chubs at that point.

Mike411
09-30-2015, 09:42 AM
Ultimately, that content has real time costs as I mentioned in my previous post and the interest generated has nowhere to go because the feature isn't ready to launch.

Exactly this. I hope they forget about previews altogether and just focus on making PVE a good experience when it launches.

WolfCrypt
09-30-2015, 12:19 PM
I'm hoping it comes out in November.

bwarner
09-30-2015, 12:22 PM
I'm hoping it comes out in November.

It absolutely won't. Hoping for this is just setting yourself up to be disappointed. There's an outside chance you'll have a test server in November, but not the released content.

Thrawn
09-30-2015, 12:26 PM
It absolutely won't. Hoping for this is just setting yourself up to be disappointed. There's an outside chance you'll have a test server in November, but not the released content.

Maybe he meant 2016. ;)

WolfCrypt
09-30-2015, 12:28 PM
They aimed for this year I'm being optimistic.

Zophie
09-30-2015, 02:13 PM
They aimed for this year I'm being optimistic.

November 196th, 2015

Tazelbain
09-30-2015, 02:23 PM
Without massive improvements to the AI, I can't must any excitement for PvE.

ev1lb0b
09-30-2015, 03:30 PM
Without massive improvements to the AI, I can't must any excitement for PvE.

I'd be happy (at this stage) to do something other than Arena with the same dumb AI....I'm running out of reasons to log on.

Why couldn't we just get a single dungeon to play before the campaign roll-out?

Zophie
09-30-2015, 03:34 PM
Why couldn't we just get a single dungeon to play before the campaign roll-out?

Because there are a lot of systems involved in making the whole dungeon experience happen, they need to finish and polish all of those systems before they can even release a single dungeon. The good news about this though is that means once all this framework is complete and we finally get the campaign dropped on us, future PVE content should hopefully be released fairly regularly, similar to the PVP Set releases.

Yoss
09-30-2015, 05:57 PM
And (to follow on Zophie's comment) the PvE release needs to be Big News, not some little dribbles here and there. The launch of PvE will effectively mean the full launch of the game to many people. I hope HXE give the existing game the minimum hype required to keep the game alive while they work nights and weekends to push for a big PvE release as soon as humanly possible. As such, there should be no single dungeons or single race/class combos released just to tide us over. We all just need to learn to live with Arena and PvP (or other non-Hex games) until the time is ripe for Hex to take over the TCG world.

Mejis
09-30-2015, 11:19 PM
And (to follow on Zophie's comment) the PvE release needs to be Big News, not some little dribbles here and there. The launch of PvE will effectively mean the full launch of the game to many people. I hope HXE give the existing game the minimum hype required to keep the game alive while they work nights and weekends to push for a big PvE release as soon as humanly possible. As such, there should be no single dungeons or single race/class combos released just to tide us over. We all just need to learn to live with Arena and PvP (or other non-Hex games) until the time is ripe for Hex to take over the TCG world.

The latest RPS article posted by Vorsa is interesting in this regard. It gives a fair amount of Cory-hype to the forthcoming PvE experience. Hopefully that'll attract some fresh blood, thankfully coming in knowing it isn't quite here yet, but is incoming "soon".
I'm also hopeful for an interesting Friday update today (edit: I mean, err, when Firday rolls around) :D

WolfCrypt
10-01-2015, 04:40 AM
The latest RPS article posted by Vorsa is interesting in this regard. It gives a fair amount of Cory-hype to the forthcoming PvE experience. Hopefully that'll attract some fresh blood, thankfully coming in knowing it isn't quite here yet, but is incoming "soon".
I'm also hopeful for an interesting Friday update today :D

Um it's Thursday in America and they only update it on Friday's US time East and West Coast are only 3 hours apart so Friday is still Friday just it be midnight faster in Eastern states then Western. So sad to burst your bubble but we gotta wait longer then you think :s I wish it was Friday!

Mejis
10-01-2015, 04:45 AM
Um it's Thursday in America and they only update it on Friday's US time East and West Coast are only 3 hours apart so Friday is still Friday just it be midnight faster in Eastern states then Western. So sad to burst your bubble but we gotta wait longer then you think :s I wish it was Friday!

Oh yeah oops.
It's because tomorrow is a public holiday in Melbourne, Aus, and so my brain currently thinks it's Friday night (whoop! it's only Thursday) ...

Yeah, so... brainmelt on my part. But thanks for making me realise it's only Thursday ;)

WolfCrypt
10-01-2015, 05:00 AM
Oh yeah oops.
It's because tomorrow is a public holiday in Melbourne, Aus, and so my brain currently thinks it's Friday night (whoop! it's only Thursday) ...

Yeah, so... brainmelt on my part. But thanks for making me realise it's only Thursday ;)

No problem. And now that the lawsuit is settled and the 100k Tourney is finalized I think we can start expecting major news regarding PVE in the coming weeks. William/Shaq said he'd get a update down in coming days and Ben Stoll told me personally in a private mail that he and PVE team are trying to fix a few concerns (Wanting to be a Elf Warlock and there is only four pvp cards in respect to warlock elves) and they'll talk about the concerns in a pve update.

Thirsty
10-01-2015, 05:28 AM
Why would you play a TCG just for PVE?

WolfCrypt
10-01-2015, 05:39 AM
Why would you play a TCG just for PVE?

It's one of the key selling points of Hex. Not everyone who enjoys card gaming has the capacity to compete or desire to. I for one have a mental disorder which part of it makes me easily frustrated so playing against PVE where I'll have various powers and cards no one can use in PVP will be funner then dying faster then my deck can work. I don't get pvp it's too hard.. Sure the AI will be hopefully as smart as a human or like real pve in other mmos but with all the PVE only cards and skills I'll have I'll be able to be on same level with AI or well enough to kick it's butt. Besides a PVE in a card game sounds intensely intriguing wouldn't you wanna try it? Or are you the kind of person who thinks PVE is a moronic idea and will only do pvp? Just because you don't get why me and several hundred other people will only play PVE in this game doesn't make us any less of a player then you.

Thirsty
10-01-2015, 05:46 AM
It's one of the key selling points of Hex. Not everyone who enjoys card gaming has the capacity to compete or desire to. I for one have a mental disorder which part of it makes me easily frustrated so playing against PVE where I'll have various powers and cards no one can use in PVP will be funner then dying faster then my deck can work. I don't get pvp it's too hard.. Sure the AI will be hopefully as smart as a human or like real pve in other mmos but with all the PVE only cards and skills I'll have I'll be able to be on same level with AI or well enough to kick it's butt. Besides a PVE in a card game sounds intensely intriguing wouldn't you wanna try it? Or are you the kind of person who thinks PVE is a moronic idea and will only do pvp? Just because you don't get why me and several hundred other people will only play PVE in this game doesn't make us any less of a player then you.

No, I don't care what you do, just curious about it. I'm playing only PVE atm myself anyway. Just seems like you'd be missing some of the game without the interaction with other players. But I figure there will be PVE only guilds and what not too. I'm curious to see how Hex handles all of this and keeps PVE interesting. I only posted because I've never heard anyone talk about only PVE on a TCG.

WolfCrypt
10-01-2015, 05:53 AM
No, I don't care what you do, just curious about it. I'm playing only PVE atm myself anyway. Just seems like you'd be missing some of the game without the interaction with other players. But I figure there will be PVE only guilds and what not too. I'm curious to see how Hex handles all of this and keeps PVE interesting. I only posted because I've never heard anyone talk about only PVE on a TCG.

:s Sorry like I said I get emotional fast so I sometimes is quick to jump the gun.. Well like I said PVP is too brutal and with PVE I can enjoy myself.. I'm not very good at deck building and so PVE will help me a lot and I just like PVE more it was the only reason I joined Hex tbh

Clawdius
10-01-2015, 10:04 PM
No, I don't care what you do, just curious about it. I'm playing only PVE atm myself anyway. Just seems like you'd be missing some of the game without the interaction with other players. But I figure there will be PVE only guilds and what not too. I'm curious to see how Hex handles all of this and keeps PVE interesting. I only posted because I've never heard anyone talk about only PVE on a TCG.
Have you watched the Kickstarter video? The way some of the contents of the PVE are described there and Corey's enthusiasm for the subject are what sold me. Sadly at no point in the video did it say "We're still a couple years away from it, and will cease much of our discussion on the subject shortly after the Kickstarter ends". It's kind of a sore point for me, because I thought I was buying a Pizza for lunch. At no point do I recall being informed that I had to wait for the shop to be built, the employees to be hired, and the sandwich business to do well enough for them to install a pizza oven. But the time for pizza is nigh! I don't know what toppings they'll have, and they don't like the idea of discussing cheese options, but hey here's hoping there's more on the menu than sheep brains and Casu Marzu!

WolfCrypt
10-02-2015, 04:21 AM
Is everyone's favorite channel The Food Network I keep seeing food analogies constantly

Clawdius
10-02-2015, 06:04 AM
Is everyone's favorite channel The Food Network I keep seeing food analogies constantly

Most of them are probably me, and they're metaphors. If there was any merit to it, I'd argue my favorite channel was netflix. But, yeah I guess I do watch a lot of Food Network :rolleyes:

WolfCrypt
10-02-2015, 06:24 AM
I don't care really just saying lol.

malloc31
10-02-2015, 07:16 AM
I'm getting hungry ...

Phenteo
10-02-2015, 12:04 PM
And this thread is trailing off.