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TheMoogleMan
11-30-2015, 08:27 AM
I very foolishly missed the kickstarter, which i shall forever hate myself for.
I have managed to buy a retailer copy (the one with the better ecto-1 and glow in the dark slimer). But would really like to get hold of all the other bits (the additional characters, ghosts, scenarios, boards, etc.).
Just wondering if they're staying as kickstarter exclusives (which i would totally understand, as the game wouldn't be here without those guys, they deserve it). Or if they will be released separately as an expansion or add on pack of some sort later on.

sara.miguel
11-30-2015, 11:27 AM
Hi there!

They will remain exclusive to Kickstarter.

Now, that's not to say if we happened to run another Kickstarter they may or may not show up... ;)

TheMoogleMan
11-30-2015, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the quick response,
now go quickly post the kickstarter for expansion 1 :P

Werechicken
12-01-2015, 10:17 AM
That being said, I know people ordered multiple copies, Moogle. You never know.

TheMoogleMan
12-01-2015, 12:45 PM
Yeah, have seen some sellers on ebay. 30 a piece for the packs, which dont seem to include the scenario cards (for the extra baddies as an example). But if I can get some extra money to the creators next time around, rather than the sellers now, i'll do that. that way we can get expansion 3 after :D

Werechicken
12-02-2015, 07:57 AM
Preach, Moogle, Preach!

Babylon1036
12-03-2015, 03:04 AM
Got the stretch goals and some add ons. was hoping to get the rest as expansions even if I had to get doubles and had to pay abet extra.

Werechicken
12-11-2015, 09:08 PM
Once everyone has their games, it will be interesting to see how many people will still care if they release them elsewhere. The game is being sold in retail, purchased by fellow fans, will lack of expansion packs hurt the game?

Babylon1036
12-11-2015, 11:52 PM
If they can roll out expansions like the gb2 or gb2016 or even an exgb thin the game could run for quite a long run look at flashpoint that was a big expansion game and I have work hard to pick up all the boards for that.

Werechicken
12-13-2015, 06:49 PM
Agreed, will the next kickstarter be for a GB2 expansion pack or an additional game?

That being said, I think your answer has been given.

As of now, they will not be released in retail, they MAY be released during the next kickstarter.

Werechicken
12-17-2015, 09:19 PM
Sara,
I promise I am not trying to start anything, I just had a thought.

The characters that were created as exclusives, you mention they may be available in a future Kickstarter.

Does that mean if it's an expansion kickstarter, that they could be added as retail releases in said expansion? Or does the wording 'Kickstarter' mean only available through kickstarter, never retail?

I'm sure you aren't allowed/don't have any idea regarding this...it was just a thought.

My two cents? I want them to be available in retail eventually. After all, by that time, we'll have even more exclusives we unlocked.

sara.miguel
12-18-2015, 01:10 PM
I can answer to the best of my ability :)

They are exclusive to Kickstarter. They will not be sold at retail. Whether they are sold in future campaigns is still undetermined. Despite mentioning the possibility numerous times during the campaign, there seems to be a growing voice of backers that would be upset if we brought them back.

MattMurdock
12-19-2015, 01:53 AM
As someone who missed out on the original campaign by mear days, I would be bitterly disappointed if they are not available in the future.

If it was me (and this may be my bias perception) this is how I would look at it:
Yes, they should not be sold at retail, as they are kickstarter exclusive.
But, as for not returing for future kickstarters, there are a few questions that should be asked.
Most importantly though, Is re-releasing them as a bonus (either included or to order as an addon) in a future kickstarter going to invalidate the enjoyment of the product of the original backers?
Even if I had been able to back at the time and had got the exclusives, I wouldnt be opposed to others being able to obtain them eventually, as they enrich the game and increase enjoyment of it - the more people who enjoy the game then the more copies that will sell and the better reputation it will have. The more copies that sell, the more chance of seeing a sequal or expansion packs - which would be a direct benefit to me.
Sure its nice to have something exclusive that others don't have, but there is a LOT of stuff that was made exclusive and without it the vanilla game does feel a bit bare after a few playthroughs. A lot of times that I have preordered things they have contained exclusives, but usually only for a limited time. You might find that after 6 months or a year, that people are not as bothered by the idea of some of these items being made available, or they might even want to order more themselves of things! (like impossible mode ghosts) I think a fair bit of angst might be coming from people who havent got their copies yet, or who have got broken bits (from comments I have seen), and once this is resolved maybe there might be more goodwill?

Of course there is always the type of backer who invests only to get multiple games and sell the product on ebay at an inflated price after it is released, and these people would be against anything that might stop them from price gouging by selling these limited items when supply dries up. But I have to say, from the passion that I have seen in the game, I get the perception that you folks arent just about putting profit first, and you really want people to have the best gaming experience possible, so maybe you find this idea as distasteful as I do.

So yes, my fingers are indeed crossed that these limited items will return in a future kickstarter - so that I can support you in making an amazing sequal (or expansion) and buy all of them! :D

Werechicken
12-19-2015, 01:17 PM
I fully believe they will be included in an expansion kickstarter.

While I think it would be fine if they were released a year or two later into retail, clearly the "votes" have spoken.

Infernodragon1
12-19-2015, 11:40 PM
I can answer to the best of my ability :)

They are exclusive to Kickstarter. They will not be sold at retail. Whether they are sold in future campaigns is still undetermined. Despite mentioning the possibility numerous times during the campaign, there seems to be a growing voice of backers that would be upset if we brought them back.

I feel that this is a huge mistake to not make these available at retail further down the road like 6 months to a year from now. Many would jump at the chance to get the exclusive ghosts and player characters especially those who could not afford them during the campaign or who missed the campaign entirely and didn't realize so many of the stretch goals were only exclusive to the kickstarter campaign. I personally could not afford to pre-order the game on kickstarter and by extension the exclusive ghosts due to financial issues at the time the campaign was going on. I had to save up just to get the retail version today. I'd love to run scenarios with Gozer and Sandman, and the Boogeyman, and Sam Hain and CTHULHU and the rest of the ghosts! I'd willingly pay another $84.99 or more for an expansion that included all the kickstarter grunt and boss ghosts and player characters and I'd even go as far as paying that same amount for the impossible mode versions of all the enemies too as a separate expansion.

Skyknight
12-20-2015, 05:40 AM
I feel that this is a huge mistake to not make these available at retail further down the road like 6 months to a year from now. Many would jump at the chance to get the exclusive ghosts and player characters especially those who could not afford them during the campaign or who missed the campaign entirely and didn't realize so many of the stretch goals were only exclusive to the kickstarter campaign. I personally could not afford to pre-order the game on kickstarter and by extension the exclusive ghosts due to financial issues at the time the campaign was going on. I had to save up just to get the retail version today. I'd love to run scenarios with Gozer and Sandman, and the Boogeyman, and Sam Hain and CTHULHU and the rest of the ghosts! I'd willingly pay another $84.99 or more for an expansion that included all the kickstarter grunt and boss ghosts and player characters and I'd even go as far as paying that same amount for the impossible mode versions of all the enemies too as a separate expansion.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I think the designers got a bit too excited and had gone overboard with the "Exclusive" stamp, even made additional packs of standard ghosts exclusive, which makes no sense at all. IMO it would have made more sense to save all the additional content for add ons and expansions to make more money and only make alternative colors or sculpts for certain characters as exclusives.

If you missed the campaign, you can try to get one over at BGG, some ppl there sell MH for way less than on ebay. I found one from a local seller for 60% of what the scalpers on ebay take. So if you're willing to pay more, but don't want to get ripped off, save the money for the retail and get one of those.

sara.miguel
12-21-2015, 08:58 AM
You two both make valid points, and as this was our first Kickstarter, there was definitely a learning curve. We're looking to improve for future campaigns.

That being said, we promised our backers that we would not release these to retail, and we gotta stick to that.

Infernodragon1
12-21-2015, 03:14 PM
and yet there are people on ebay selling the mass hysteria bonuses for outrageous prices ($250-500 per set of exclusives and $40-60 per piece for the individual boss characters.) from their pre-orders and you guys aren't seeing a cent of that. and people are buying from them just to get a hold of the stuff they missed out on during the kickstarter campaign. the demand is there, and scalpers are taking advantage of both you guys AND your customer base and its a problem because they're including the kickstarter version of the base game with the exclusives. that means less people buying the game from you guys or at retail and more going to these ebay scalpers.

I know you guys want to keep your promise to your kickstarter backers but when keeping that promise means scalpers taking advantage of your customers and your guys' trust and this promise hurting everyone in the long run(you guys, the other backers, the rest of your customer base, Ghostbuster fans, potential future customers) is it really worth it?

Look, I understand not wanting them to make them available so soon after retail release of the base game, that would be a betrayal of trust between you and your backers, I completely understand that. However, to NEVER make retail versions of those exclusives could be seen as a slap in the face to the rest of your customer base as well as Ghostbuster fans in general who want to play out encounters from the movies and cartoon with the boardgame like the climactic rooftop battle with Gozer, Zuul, and Vinz Clortho or the showdown with Cthulhu and his Cthulhu spawn, or the Halloween ghost swarm brought about by Sam Hain, or the battle with the Gray Lady from the videogame. to say that the majority of us who wanted to wait for the retail version to come out, for whatever the reason may be, can NEVER experience these scenarios solely because we missed the kickstarter just feels wrong somehow.

I truly think no one would be upset with you guys if you made them available for retail later on, like maybe a year from now or closer to the retail release of the Ghostbusters 2 themed expansion with Vigo and the Scalary brothers you guys were thinking about making. I think both backers and the rest of your customer base would be okay with having the kickstarter exclusive ghosts and characters from the first campaign available at retail after enough time had passed.

Werechicken
12-21-2015, 03:31 PM
Sara,
I respect the promise made.

To everyone else, I'd like to point you to GBfans.com's shop, where they are only being sold for maybe 5-10 dollars more than the kickstarter.

I am normally a complainer of GBfans, but I will say that this time, they are doing the right thing.

Skyknight
12-22-2015, 03:32 AM
Sara,
I respect the promise made.

To everyone else, I'd like to point you to GBfans.com's shop, where they are only being sold for maybe 5-10 dollars more than the kickstarter.

I am normally a complainer of GBfans, but I will say that this time, they are doing the right thing.
Yes, they got the best prices of the resellers. But it only makes sense for US customers. For everyone elsewhere in the world, the shipping costs kills it. I've done the math and just 5-6 of the packs with shipping and import tax would have cost me almost as much as a complete MH from a scalper in my own country and still be missing things compared to the MH. So it made no sense to me and when I found one for sale at BGG from a fellow german at 60% of the price the ebay scalpers her in Ger take, I didn't think twice and bought it. Still paid more than the people on KS paid, but not nearly as much as some people would've loved to take from me.

@Sara
Like I said before, I appreciate that you ppl at CZE take your promise seriously. Shows us all that your word is worth something after all. I just think the promise was given too fast and without putting too much thought into it beforehand and has put more stones in your way than it helped you!

sara.miguel
12-22-2015, 11:05 AM
Inferno, just out of curiosity, have you participated in Kickstarters? I only ask because I know for a fact backers will be incredibly unhappy if we release this content at a later date. They have voiced that opinion publicly and privately (private messages on KS, etc.).

I'm not saying your wrong either, but we made a promise.

Infernodragon1
12-22-2015, 08:10 PM
Inferno, just out of curiosity, have you participated in Kickstarters? I only ask because I know for a fact backers will be incredibly unhappy if we release this content at a later date. They have voiced that opinion publicly and privately (private messages on KS, etc.).

I'm not saying your wrong either, but we made a promise.

I am unable to participate in kickstarters because of my personal financial situation. even if I could participate I'd probably only be able to donate the bare minimum to a project and still be able to skirt by on the amount I have to set aside for food, gas, and bills each month. which means I STILL wouldn't have been able to pre-order the mass hysteria bonuses even if I did have enough to donate to the base level of the campaign. I had to save up and set money aside just to get the retail version. I was really hoping those extras would be made available at retail later on so I could save up and buy them to play those scenarios with my friends.

I respect that you guys are willing to stick to your guns but I want to know one thing before I have to make the walk of shame and tell my friends and my local game store owner the bad news.

exactly how many of the backers complained to make you guys promise not to make the exclusives available at retail? I'm not asking for names or anything like that, I just want a number. of the 8,396 backers how many complained?

MattMurdock
12-22-2015, 11:00 PM
I think they should come back for the next kickstarter, but any new special items should be 'exclusive' for the first 12 months after release. Then they should be available for all to purchase.

The_Xavious
12-24-2015, 02:02 AM
I have to say, it bums me out that the bonus characters are all locked out for non-KS people. I think they add a lot to the game, and you pretty much covered every single character that's ever donned a proton pack outside of Louis and Slimer, so it seems like your only room for expansion that way is through the new movie(s), variants of the existing characters or possibly through equipment. I guess there is Extreme Ghostbusters too, though one of them is already added.

Most of the other things, like ghosts and map tiles, there's still a lot of options you can add to through the GB Cartoon, GB2, the new movie, and there's still some stuff you can get out of the first movie (though you seem to have already used the majority of the toughest ghosts for scenario bosses). Makes me feel bad for the non-backers that they'll be stuck with only 4 characters, with no room to play around with the different character dynamics.

Meankeb
12-24-2015, 02:08 PM
Kickstarter's identify has shifted recently, as the reincorporated as a Bennefit Corporation. From their Charter, "Kickstarter’s mission is to help bring creative projects to life. We measure our success as a company by how well we achieve that mission, not by the size of our profits." They have made it more difficult for add-on purchases within their website, which this Kickstarter (and others!) have experienced difficulty processing the more complex combinations. They would prefer to not be the middle-man for processing perks, outside of back-level rewards. Just an opinion, but the Kickstarter exclusives are those items reserved for those who got the project off the ground and being part of the launch community.

I would be perfectly fine making more of the unlock rewards retail available...but if it's got the Kickstarter Exclusive tag, please keep it off the shelves.

Infernodragon1
12-25-2015, 10:42 AM
Kickstarter's identify has shifted recently, as the reincorporated as a Bennefit Corporation. From their Charter, "Kickstarter’s mission is to help bring creative projects to life. We measure our success as a company by how well we achieve that mission, not by the size of our profits." They have made it more difficult for add-on purchases within their website, which this Kickstarter (and others!) have experienced difficulty processing the more complex combinations. They would prefer to not be the middle-man for processing perks, outside of back-level rewards. Just an opinion, but the Kickstarter exclusives are those items reserved for those who got the project off the ground and being part of the launch community.

I would be perfectly fine making more of the unlock rewards retail available...but if it's got the Kickstarter Exclusive tag, please keep it off the shelves.

the only problem is that the large majority of the stretch goals and unlock tags were stamped as Kickstarter exclusives. fan favorites like Gozer, Zuul and Vinz Clortho, the big bads of the first film as well as the iconic Grey Lady from the library scene were stamped as EXCLUSIVES. so did Walter Peck, Ivo Shandor, the boogeyman, Sam Hain, Cthulhu, the sand man, the gozer building tiles the library/sedgewick tiles, the taxi driver zombie, a slew of generic ghosts, the tobin's spirit guide storage box, the giant boogaloo manifistation, the cthulhu spawn, the spectral Ghostbusters AND THE ADDITIONAL PLAYER CHARACTERS. almost every single stretch goal was tagged as a kickstarter exclusive! the only things not tagged as exclusives were what came in the retail version of the game which is very little compared to everything that got the exclusive stamp. even the impossible mode stuff got the exclusive stamp!

if it were just one or two pieces that were made exclusive like the spectral Ghostbusters or the glow in the dark slimer and the impossible mode ghosts I wouldn't be as upset as I am. but the fact that almost EVERYTHING was made an exclusive to such a high tier of entry and will NEVER be made available at retail later on is just INEXCUSABLE!

Meankeb
12-25-2015, 08:37 PM
the only problem is that the large majority of the stretch goals and unlock tags were stamped as Kickstarter exclusives.

I'm in agreement here. I would be in favor of during the next Kickstarter, that 80% of them are released as purchasable Add-ons, and that if the community agrees (survey vote), would then be released for retail. As you mention, a quick check would be anything recognizable from the first GB movie. I think the more productive part of this thread turns to:

"If an expansion is released through Kickstarter, what miniatures (or tiles) should not be made available?"

BradBosshart
12-27-2015, 09:01 PM
I think the people who want to get them after market may not care about color. What if they re-released them in an ugly olive drab color, or white like Stay Puft? This way, collectors would know instantly if they were 2nd generation, and the exclusivity of the first run would remain intact. Just a thought. I don't really care. I painted mine, opened mine, it's no longer mint. I open my figures and put them on a shelf. I still keep comics mint, but that's mostly out of habit. : )

Crazy1van
12-27-2015, 09:09 PM
It does seem like Zuul, Vinz, and Gozer, at the very least, should be made available to retail customers... though variants of them, with different sculpts (or at least different colored sculpts) and different Ghost cards would be appropriate.

Oh, and I was a backer. I'm one of those illiterates who didn't realize the taxicab zombies didn't come with the Mass Hysteria edition, but I'm resigned to utilizing after-market web sellers to find them.

Werechicken
12-28-2015, 08:27 AM
@Brad, I think it sounds like CZE doesn't want to do that, for fear of angering the kickstarter backers.

Me personally? I want as many people to play as possible, the more pieces, the more fun.

Brandon_the_Wut
12-28-2015, 06:03 PM
I wonder if alternate sculpts with alternate plastic colors would be alright for retail versions of KS exclusives. It would bring KS exclusives to a wider audience while maintaining the exclusivity of the original versions. But I would definitely hope they allowed KS exclusives from the first Kickstarter to be purchasable add-ons in any potential futures Kickstarters. Even Sandman, the glow in the dark dice, and the exclusive tiles that came with the Mass Hysteria version of the game. The more people who have a chance to buy them the better, plus it would contribute to the total of the Kickstarter they are part of and their status as Kickstarter exclusives is maintained.

Werechicken
12-29-2015, 05:22 PM
Brandon, you and I are in agreement, the more people play the better.

As for alternate sculpts, I don't know, it's possible, I suppose.

MattMurdock
12-29-2015, 11:59 PM
I do find it odd, that sofar in this thread whilst there have been people who have said "Yeah, it should only stay on kickstarters, but bring it back for the next one", Noone has drastically opposed that idea, and a lot would be happy to see them come out eventually.
So that begs the question, either most backers who feel that way are not on this forum, or that it is a very tiny minority who feel that way?

ToasterBoy
12-30-2015, 12:12 PM
I'm a backer. A backer who got everything (Mass Hysteria plus Spooktacular). Part of the reason I went whole hog is because I like the idea of exclusives. I would be disappointed if the KS exclusives were released outside of KS. Could I do anything about it? No. Would it ruin my enjoyment of the game? No. But I would be disappointed. I'm totally fine with them being offered with another Ghostbuster Game Kickstarter though. Especially if one of the exclusives was the Glow In The Dark Slimer. *hint hint*

The_Xavious
12-30-2015, 01:53 PM
The mass hysteria box, glow in the dark slimer, card box, gray ghostbusters all make for great KS exlusives, but Gozer, Zuul, Vinz Clortho, the Sedgewick and Shandor building? They got really carried away with the exclusives.

The possibilities for expansions are shut down so heavily that it just doesn't even seem viable to make expansions for the game, since tthey couldn't go retail with them. GB1 is almost entirely tapped out for content, and the only recognizeable aspects of it in the standard game are the GBs themselves and Stay Puft, everything else is locked out of being a possible expansion.

The Real Ghostbusters cartoon got most of its major ghosts locked out of potential expansion material, Extreme Ghostbusters has potential, but one of the team members is locked behind KS exclusivity.

The only options for expansion are pretty much limited to GB2 and the coming movie. I think people insisting on having their exclusives will be doing so at the expense of the game's future. Having a one year lead on the content that might make 3 or so expansions doesn't seem like a bad deal, and its not like everything from the KS exclusives really need to make it to retail, the problem is that so many of the key, recognizeable parts are exclusive.

Werechicken
12-30-2015, 02:34 PM
So that begs the question, either most backers who feel that way are not on this forum, or that it is a very tiny minority who feel that way?

This.

Barely any of us are on here.

Brandon_the_Wut
01-01-2016, 07:30 AM
I'm a backer who got two MH games and I feel that the exclusive characters from this first campaign should eventually lose their "exclusive" label at some point. Either sold as their current sculpt or be re-sculpted and sold. If re-sculpted then the original sculpts retain their exclusive label and people who weren't around for the first campaign still get the characters we got. Best of both worlds with that option. I just want everyone to share in the Ghostbusters goodness.

Werechicken
01-06-2016, 12:55 PM
Yes, but the issue is that apparently the majority of backers want it to remain exclusive.

Infernodragon1
01-12-2016, 07:04 PM
the key word there is "apparently" I have my suspicions that it's a very loud vocal minority of re-seller backers that want them to remain exclusives so that they can price gouge people that actually want these characters for their copy of the game. but until we get a rough number of how many actually said "keep these characters exclusive to kickstarter forever" we're still left to wonder.

Brandon_the_Wut
01-17-2016, 04:31 AM
Re-sculpts are a good workaround. The originals remain exclusive while the characters themselves are opened to everyone. But, ultimately, it's up to Cryptozoic, if they do a Kickstarter for a sequel, as to what they want to do.

Alxndrxvier
01-17-2016, 10:36 AM
Backer here. I went whole hog and got pretty much everything. I know I can only speak for myself, but I like the idea of the Kickstarter exclusives being released separately if they are resculpt to be immediately recognizable as being a re-release. I would love to have more people enjoy more playability with this game, as it would increase the likelihood that CZE will release more stuff for it. But, damn it, I got in and paid for those and was promised they would be exclusive. :) That being said, re-sculpt and release them and I will probably buy a few myself.

BradBosshart
01-17-2016, 10:38 AM
Yeah, I suggested the resculpts, too. Or, maybe just do them in a whacky color, or metallic color or something? That was you know it wasn't from the original set (makes backers happy) but the people who missed out can get Gozer or Samhain in the next one as a paid for add on or something?

DocX
01-17-2016, 11:03 AM
Kickstarter backer here (Mass Hysteria level).

I have no problems if items were released later for sale. Scenario cards, different colored sculpts (no need to go through expense of resculpts if you can color it differently, IMO), etc. There were additional items I would have liked to have added on to my Kickstarter but was unable to during the couple month window. Being able to pick those up individually later is something I would very much appreciate the ability to do.

Skyknight
01-18-2016, 01:41 AM
Not a Kickstarter backer, because I don't have a credit card.
I had to pay a bit more for my Mass Hysteria, but still not nearly as much as the ebay scalpers want and I don't want anyone to give that much money to the scum of the net just to get the full experience of the game. I'd prefer that the makers of the game get that money so they can continue to support it.
Please Cryptozoic do a rerelease of all the exclusives in one package, maybe with different sculpts, different colors or even just as cardboard pieces with plastic feet. It doesn't really matter as long as people can enjoy the complete game without paying those scammers.

Phantobias
01-18-2016, 09:41 AM
I'm also not a backer, because I missed it, but was able to buy the Mass Hysteria Pledge for a reasonable price at the geek market. This thing with the exclusives is absolutely terrible. I showed the game to a friend on Saturday and he really loved it and would like to buy it, but not without all those iconic characters...
In the end, keeping those things and add-ons exclusive will be bad for everyone, also the backers, because people won't buy it, and we won't get more Ghostbusters Board Game stuff.
Also if I want to buy some of the add-ons I have to pay the ripp-off prices on eBay, which will in no way support the game. But I want to support the game...:(

Werechicken
01-18-2016, 11:20 AM
Well, have we had one person on this thread say they wanted to keep them exclusive?

Krusticlese
01-18-2016, 03:11 PM
I'd be for keeping them exclusive. If they were presented as such, they should remain as such. However, I'd be for new sculpts of Gozer, Terror Dogs, Samhain, Sandman, etc if they had different character cards and abilities to go along with them as well.

Simply doing new sculpts with the existing cards does nothing to entice me to buy them, as I got them through the Kickstarter. If they had different abilities and new tiles with the mass market expansions though, I'd be purchasing an expansion as well just for variety in existing scenarios, and any new scenarios that would be made.

I appreciate being able to have Gozer and the Dogs, but I do scratch my head as to why those in particular were KS exclusive. Releasing a new expansion with all three with new sculpts (how about the dogs sitting on the pillars?), and new abilities keeps mass market interest going for the game, and gets the KS backers purchasing it as well while keeping the initial promise of exclusively to the KS backers.

Meankeb
01-18-2016, 09:12 PM
Well, have we had one person on this thread say they wanted to keep them exclusive?

<-- This guy. More accurately, I want the majority of them to be non-exclusive. I believe that Kickstarter exists as an early-adopter tool to get creative projects made. If they add a perk that rewards those who help launch a product, then that's what it should be. If they modify that approach and just make it a "help us launch and you get these future add-ons for 50% off"... just make that what it says, and I'll still be a supporter. This is what I think CZE should ask us. If a miniature were to remain exclusive, which one would we as a community vote for?

Werechicken
01-19-2016, 05:19 AM
Right, so both of you agreed they could be released as different sculpts, and you'd be fine.

My question was is anyone opposed to that?

Krusticlese
01-19-2016, 09:54 AM
Right, so both of you agreed they could be released as different sculpts, and you'd be fine.

My question was is anyone opposed to that?

To clarify- re-releasing with just an alt sculpt would not be ok for me. It would need to be a new sculpt and new character cards with new abilities for any re-released figure.

Skyknight
01-20-2016, 02:56 AM
To clarify- re-releasing with just an alt sculpt would not be ok for me. It would need to be a new sculpt and new character cards with new abilities for any re-released figure.

Why change the character cards? They have been up on the Kickstarter page for so much time that everyone who wants to play with them has saved them anyway. A reprint of them wouldn't change that much at all! But the figures themselfes have to be different to keep the exclusive status of the first edition!

Infernodragon1
01-20-2016, 03:05 AM
To clarify- re-releasing with just an alt sculpt would not be ok for me. It would need to be a new sculpt and new character cards with new abilities for any re-released figure.

with the ghosts I could see that but what about the player characters like Janine, Rookie, etc.? it could throw off game balancing if those were changed but I have no idea what their stats or abilities are because I can't find hi-res images of their character cards. And I find it extremely weird that the retail game came with the proton stream tokens for the extra ghostbusters but no figures or character cards for them. I mean it's like CZE fully intended the "New Ghostbusters" to be included in the retail base game with the original 4 as unpainted, solid colored figures like the original 4, but because of this mess with some of the backers over at kickstarter they got pulled from the retail version at the last minute. I dunno, it feels off to me but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

anyway, just to be clear, no one here would be opposed to having the CHARACTERS/GHOSTS from the kickstarter campaign being released at retail in some fashion (new sculpt, color change, stat tweak, ability change, etc.) to make the retail versions different from their kickstarter exclusive counterparts so that everyone could have the CHARACTERS/GHOSTS to use in the game. have we at least come to an agreement on that?

Krusticlese
01-20-2016, 08:23 AM
From a manufacturing perspective, it was likely easier to include them all on that one sheet. I don't think they were ever intended to be retail.

As far as the cards go, yes they are available as a .pdf, but many perfer the originals. New cards offer variety in gameplay as well for existing figures. Just my perspective.

I'm in agreement that Cryptozoic should explore Expansion Sets with some of the Kickstarter characters. If it's economically viable for them and they feel they can make money from it, go for it. More players attracted to the game are a bonus for all of us. :-)

The_Xavious
01-20-2016, 11:28 AM
I'd be for keeping them exclusive. If they were presented as such, they should remain as such. However, I'd be for new sculpts of Gozer, Terror Dogs, Samhain, Sandman, etc if they had different character cards and abilities to go along with them as well.

Simply doing new sculpts with the existing cards does nothing to entice me to buy them, as I got them through the Kickstarter. If they had different abilities and new tiles with the mass market expansions though, I'd be purchasing an expansion as well just for variety in existing scenarios, and any new scenarios that would be made.

I appreciate being able to have Gozer and the Dogs, but I do scratch my head as to why those in particular were KS exclusive. Releasing a new expansion with all three with new sculpts (how about the dogs sitting on the pillars?), and new abilities keeps mass market interest going for the game, and gets the KS backers purchasing it as well while keeping the initial promise of exclusively to the KS backers.

New kickstarters would still bring new exclusives, and while Gozer + dogs + tiles + scenarios would be a pretty substancial expansion, I'm sure they'd add new elements to the game, maybe new styles of scenarios, possible equipment or ways to change up the characters, perhaps new interactions with ghosts and ghostbusters.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of new rules cards for characters and ghosts, since that offers more variety, but I think its a bit of a stretch to assume a future release of current exclusives wouldn't come with something new alongside it.


Why change the character cards? They have been up on the Kickstarter page for so much time that everyone who wants to play with them has saved them anyway. A reprint of them wouldn't change that much at all! But the figures themselfes have to be different to keep the exclusive status of the first edition!

With the exception of Ron Alexander, the bonus character cards on the KS page hardly even resemble the final versions, though even Alexander has a few significant changes to his abilities.

Meankeb
01-20-2016, 07:38 PM
to make the retail versions different from their kickstarter exclusive counterparts so that everyone could have the CHARACTERS/GHOSTS to use in the game. have we at least come to an agreement on that?

So, I think the biggest problem is how much was labeled as "Kickstarter Exclusive" in the Stretch Goals section as they unlocked at the bottom of the campaign page. For me, everything that was shown at the top of the Kickstarter in Mass Hysteria Pledge is exclusive to this campaign. Everything else, as shown in their "+Stretch Goals" picture, as they posted it would be perfectly fine for retail release.

41454146

Infernodragon1
01-20-2016, 08:59 PM
So, I think the biggest problem is how much was labeled as "Kickstarter Exclusive" in the Stretch Goals section as they unlocked at the bottom of the campaign page. For me, everything that was shown at the top of the Kickstarter in Mass Hysteria Pledge is exclusive to this campaign. Everything else, as shown in their "+Stretch Goals" picture, as they posted it would be perfectly fine for retail release.

41454146

so you'd be okay with the "New Ghostbusters", the library and Gozer building tiles, Gozer, Zuul, Vinz, the librarian, Boogeyman, Sam Haine, Shandor, Peck, the Tobin's box, the phantom flushes, the Cthulhu spawn, and the 100mm Boogaloo and Cthulhu and their scenario cards being released at retail but nothing else from the campaign. okay, that seems like a fair compromise. that gets all of the major characters released to retail and still keeps a good chunk of the exclusives exclusive to kickstarter.

I'd actually be okay with that.

Skyknight
01-21-2016, 12:29 AM
With the exception of Ron Alexander, the bonus character cards on the KS page hardly even resemble the final versions, though even Alexander has a few significant changes to his abilities.

They had two different versions of the character cards on Kickstarter. The first and a newer "final" version. The first was the one on the main campaign page, the finals can be found here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/ghostbusters-the-board-game/posts/1322414

Krusticlese
01-21-2016, 12:54 AM
Just curious as to which of you who are for the release of the Kickstarter 'exclusive' figures actually missed out on the Kickstarter and didn't get the figures?

I missed out on every Zombicide KS, but don't expect them to release them because I missed it.

MattMurdock
01-21-2016, 02:32 AM
Just curious as to which of you who are for the release of the Kickstarter 'exclusive' figures actually missed out on the Kickstarter and didn't get the figures?

I missed out on every Zombicide KS, but don't expect them to release them because I missed it.

I missed the kickstarter by about 2 days, so I bought a retail copy, then bought a MH copy off ebay when I was disappointed with the limited contents of the base game.
I am for the majority of the content to be released (even after I have just bought them) for the main reason that the base game feels like the guts have been torn out of it without the content. Ghostbusters is very different to Zombicide in that much of the kickstarter content is iconic from the movies or the cartoons (Gozer, the terror dogs, Boogieman, Peck, the Sedgewick, the librarian). When the Ghostbusters IP is involved, people expect to see those characters, it's like Zombicide saying "here is a base game about Zombie survival, but you only get 3 obscure Zombies in the game, you have to have kickstarted to get the pack of 30 iconic zombies". This means that I sadly don't think the game will sell very well at retail, particularly not at the prices I have seen my local retailers asking for it (Down here in NZ). If that limits the likelyhood of a sequel or expansion, then thats bad for all of us. Having players able to purchase most of the expanded content eventually doesn't greatly hurt anyone who has the exclusive items enjoyment of the game (unless you are hording to scalp on ebay) and will sell more copies as players will look to expand later.

I think that whomever was responsibly for the kickstarter messed up badly on the exclusivity decision (and I think Cryptozoic knows that - it would have been far better to put a 1 year exclusivity on most of those items) and it would suck if that continued to have a negative impact on future sales and development of product.

Infernodragon1
01-21-2016, 03:02 AM
Just curious as to which of you who are for the release of the Kickstarter 'exclusive' figures actually missed out on the Kickstarter and didn't get the figures?

I missed out on every Zombicide KS, but don't expect them to release them because I missed it.

it's not a matter of "oh I missed out on the kickstarter but I really want those figures." it's a matter of cryptozoic marking some of the most iconic characters of the franchise (Gozer, the terror dogs, Walter Peck, etc.) as exclusives and then making this promise that they would NEVER BE MADE AVAILABLE AT RETAIL. initially the stretch goals in the photo were not marked as exclusives to kickstarter backers when the campaign first went live. then somewhere near the end that changed.

I don't mind the idea of kickstarter exclusive items, if you're paying that much to back a project you should get a little bonus that only others that back the project would get, that's not the issue here. my issue is that the stretch goals, which are supposed to be the cool features and bonuses that get added to the final product at retail, got the "KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVE!!!11!" stamp slapped on them and were locked out of the retail release as a result!

Infernodragon1
01-21-2016, 03:07 AM
I missed the kickstarter by about 2 days, so I bought a retail copy, then bought a MH copy off ebay when I was disappointed with the limited contents of the base game.
I am for the majority of the content to be released (even after I have just bought them) for the main reason that the base game feels like the guts have been torn out of it without the content. Ghostbusters is very different to Zombicide in that much of the kickstarter content is iconic from the movies or the cartoons (Gozer, the terror dogs, Boogieman, Peck, the Sedgewick, the librarian). When the Ghostbusters IP is involved, people expect to see those characters, it's like Zombicide saying "here is a base game about Zombie survival, but you only get 3 obscure Zombies in the game, you have to have kickstarted to get the pack of 30 iconic zombies". This means that I sadly don't think the game will sell very well at retail, particularly not at the prices I have seen my local retailers asking for it (Down here in NZ). If that limits the likelyhood of a sequel or expansion, then thats bad for all of us. Having players able to purchase most of the expanded content eventually doesn't greatly hurt anyone who has the exclusive items enjoyment of the game (unless you are hording to scalp on ebay) and will sell more copies as players will look to expand later.

I think that whomever was responsibly for the kickstarter messed up badly on the exclusivity decision (and I think Cryptozoic knows that - it would have been far better to put a 1 year exclusivity on most of those items) and it would suck if that continued to have a negative impact on future sales and development of product.

This. just all of this.

Werechicken
01-21-2016, 09:00 AM
Agreed, inferno

The_Xavious
01-21-2016, 10:51 AM
They had two different versions of the character cards on Kickstarter. The first and a newer "final" version. The first was the one on the main campaign page, the finals can be found here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/ghostbusters-the-board-game/posts/1322414

Oh man I can't believe I missed that. I was looking all over for them too, would have been handy.

Krusticlese
01-21-2016, 01:45 PM
it's not a matter of "oh I missed out on the kickstarter but I really want those figures." it's a matter of cryptozoic marking some of the most iconic characters of the franchise (Gozer, the terror dogs, Walter Peck, etc.) as exclusives and then making this promise that they would NEVER BE MADE AVAILABLE AT RETAIL. initially the stretch goals in the photo were not marked as exclusives to kickstarter backers when the campaign first went live. then somewhere near the end that changed.

I don't mind the idea of kickstarter exclusive items, if you're paying that much to back a project you should get a little bonus that only others that back the project would get, that's not the issue here. my issue is that the stretch goals, which are supposed to be the cool features and bonuses that get added to the final product at retail, got the "KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVE!!!11!" stamp slapped on them and were locked out of the retail release as a result!

I was following the campaign pretty much since the beginning, and I never saw Cryptozoic communicate that any of the stretch goals would be retail. As those goals were unlocked, they were marked as Kickstarter exclusive, which was always my impression. Do you have screen shots showing something different?

I think the best solution is an expansion pack for Gozer and the dogs- new sculpts, new tiles, and new cards with new abilities. If it's economically viable, of course. I do think the base game is very expensive at retail brick and mortar stores, but it can be gotten online for around $60 shipped.

sara.miguel
01-21-2016, 04:05 PM
Being our first Kickstarter, and doing a bit of learning on the go, we made promises that may or may not have been the best course of action. If we were all about money, we would have gone back on that promise and released the figs at retail. The sticky situation involves the fact that backers demanded that figs be exclusive, regardless of color, sculpt, etc. We obliged. This campaign grew bigger and quicker than many of us had anticipated.

That being said, we're...working on stuff. Yup. Super specific. What stuff you might ask? Good question...

Meankeb
01-21-2016, 06:58 PM
we're...working on stuff.

What a terrific, terrible tease!

Krusticlese
01-21-2016, 09:59 PM
This game has so much replay value- what with subbing Flushes, Taxi Drivers, or any number of Impossible Mode Ghosts, I suspect I won't be tired of it when the next Kickstarter campaign begins!

FYI @ Sara- Headmistress Ellen Gold from the Wander Hills Orphanage (IDW comic, vol 1 trade paperback) would be a great addition. Tossing orphan ghosts around and whatnot...

Skyknight
01-22-2016, 02:43 AM
The sticky situation involves the fact that backers demanded that figs be exclusive, regardless of color, sculpt, etc. We obliged.

I think that was where you promised a bit too much!
New sculpts could have been done and still preserved the exclusive status of the originals!
But you could still do cardboard proxies with plastic standing feet. Not the same and not as fun as figures but at least it would allow everyone to play the full game even without the actual figs at retail.
On another note, the additional gameboard tiles(or variations of them) should be rereleased in an expansion! I think the game will become a bit boring if there are only street and park tiles. It would have been better to have some variation already included with the base game, but a cheap tileset expansion should also do.

@Krusticlese
You do only have that much replay value with the MH. The retail base game doesn't even have half of that. I must know, because I have both and the retail feels like missing 55% of the game!

Werechicken
01-22-2016, 05:09 AM
How many backers would have to say re-sculpts are okay before CZE feels comfortable releasing re-sculpts?

Krusticlese
01-22-2016, 07:18 AM
Yes, however I also have 2 sets of all tiles- base game, sedgewick, library, shandor. So I may have a different outlook on that.

I think the game mechanics are strong enough that if you do get only the base game, that you are going to look at getting more tiles anyway.

Small expansions with a new boss, and 5 extra class 1 or 2 ghosts and 4 tiles for $25ish seems like a solid plan to keep longevity in the game.

Like- (1) Ellen Gold boss, (5) Class 1 orphan ghosts, and (4) double sided Wander Hills Orphanage tiles... just sayin' ;-)

sara.miguel
01-22-2016, 10:43 AM
I think that was where you promised a bit too much!

This is the problem we are faced with. Trust me, we're aware. In the heat of the moment, things were different. I pretty much didn't sleep for a month.

The_Xavious
01-22-2016, 12:21 PM
I can imagine. I don't think anyone could have expected such an insanely successful kickstarter, I bet everyone kind of got caught up in the excitement. :p

Meankeb
01-22-2016, 07:56 PM
Trust me, we're aware.

You've got our trust. We realize that you're pinned in an situation where everyone can't be happy. Know that for the majority of us, we're happy with being able to help make this a reality, and we will be back for more!

Skyknight
01-23-2016, 04:51 AM
I think the game mechanics are strong enough that if you do get only the base game, that you are going to look at getting more tiles anyway.

Small expansions with a new boss, and 5 extra class 1 or 2 ghosts and 4 tiles for $25ish seems like a solid plan to keep longevity in the game.
Seems entirely reasonable! They should do that!


Like- (1) Ellen Gold boss, (5) Class 1 orphan ghosts, and (4) double sided Wander Hills Orphanage tiles... just sayin' ;-)
I don't even know who they are. Never read the IDW comics because I'm not importing comic books. The prices on ported stuff are insane in Germany. And I didn't really like the art style. The only reason I wanted the new Ghostbusters was to have more characters to choose from and they had Janine, Kylie and the Rookie!

Infernodragon1
01-23-2016, 04:25 PM
Yes, however I also have 2 sets of all tiles- base game, sedgewick, library, shandor. So I may have a different outlook on that.

I think the game mechanics are strong enough that if you do get only the base game, that you are going to look at getting more tiles anyway.

Small expansions with a new boss, and 5 extra class 1 or 2 ghosts and 4 tiles for $25ish seems like a solid plan to keep longevity in the game.

Like- (1) Ellen Gold boss, (5) Class 1 orphan ghosts, and (4) double sided Wander Hills Orphanage tiles... just sayin' ;-)

you're going really obscure with pushing for that IDW arc. look, I know IDW content is a thing, Idulnus is from the comics and he's in the base game. but the first expansion should be the Ghostbusters 1 content (Gozer, zuul, vinz, librarian, peck and the GB1 location tiles of the Gozer building, the sedgewick, and the library) and the extra player characters (Jenine, Kylie, Alexander, Ortiz, and Rookie) because that stuff is the most recognizable to the franchise and it's what would draw many more people to the game. I'm not even talking about money here, I'm talking more potential people playing the game and making the game a success because of these iconic characters and locations that are easily identifiable to the ghostbusters franchise. even if you're not a die hard GB fan but have seen the first movie you'd easily recognize Gozer, the Terror Dogs, The Librarian, Peck, and Jenine. and at the end of the day I feel like Cryptozoic just wants more people to enjoy their games and having the more iconic characters of the ghostbusters franchise available to more people will allow that. as for Cthulhu and his spawn, that alone could pull in lovecraft fans who aren't necessarily Ghostbusters fans to try out the game if Cthulhu and his spawn were released as an expansion later on. just saying.

Skyknight
01-24-2016, 02:15 AM
you're going really obscure with pushing for that IDW arc. look, I know IDW content is a thing, Idulnus is from the comics and he's in the base game. but the first expansion should be the Ghostbusters 1 content (Gozer, zuul, vinz, librarian, peck and the GB1 location tiles of the Gozer building, the sedgewick, and the library) and the extra player characters (Jenine, Kylie, Alexander, Ortiz, and Rookie) because that stuff is the most recognizable to the franchise and it's what would draw many more people to the game. I'm not even talking about money here, I'm talking more potential people playing the game and making the game a success because of these iconic characters and locations that are easily identifiable to the ghostbusters franchise. even if you're not a die hard GB fan but have seen the first movie you'd easily recognize Gozer, the Terror Dogs, The Librarian, Peck, and Jenine. and at the end of the day I feel like Cryptozoic just wants more people to enjoy their games and having the more iconic characters of the ghostbusters franchise available to more people will allow that. as for Cthulhu and his spawn, that alone could pull in lovecraft fans who aren't necessarily Ghostbusters fans to try out the game if Cthulhu and his spawn were released as an expansion later on. just saying.
You're right, but they won't release any of those things, because they promised it would stay Kickstarter exclusive forever and will never release variations of them!
They maneuvered themselfes into a corner with no way out or around without pissing off thousands of people!

Krusticlese
01-24-2016, 02:27 AM
you're going really obscure with pushing for that IDW arc. look, I know IDW content is a thing, Idulnus is from the comics and he's in the base game. but the first expansion should be the Ghostbusters 1 content (Gozer, zuul, vinz, librarian, peck and the GB1 location tiles of the Gozer building, the sedgewick, and the library) and the extra player characters (Jenine, Kylie, Alexander, Ortiz, and Rookie) because that stuff is the most recognizable to the franchise and it's what would draw many more people to the game. I'm not even talking about money here, I'm talking more potential people playing the game and making the game a success because of these iconic characters and locations that are easily identifiable to the ghostbusters franchise. even if you're not a die hard GB fan but have seen the first movie you'd easily recognize Gozer, the Terror Dogs, The Librarian, Peck, and Jenine. and at the end of the day I feel like Cryptozoic just wants more people to enjoy their games and having the more iconic characters of the ghostbusters franchise available to more people will allow that. as for Cthulhu and his spawn, that alone could pull in lovecraft fans who aren't necessarily Ghostbusters fans to try out the game if Cthulhu and his spawn were released as an expansion later on. just saying.

It's not *that* obscure, it was in the first IDW trade that Dan Schoening drew, who does the illustrations for the game (it's why I ended up picking it up). Maybe better for a Kickstarter exclusive add-on pack.

I just want to fight a boss that throws ghost kids at you. lol

(Ellen the headmistress at the Wander Hillls Orphanage. She burnt the place down with the orphans in it. When the Ghostbusters encounter her, she tosses the orphan ghosts at them as weapons)

And, yeah, as skynight said, none of that stuff is getting released in retail (at least in the form it was in the Kickstarter). Just get it on e-Bay and suck all your friends into it so they all back the next one. ;-) I just saw a Mass Hysteria pledge with an Impossible ghost pack, Impossible Slimer and Indulnas, Taxi Drivers, and Spectrals for about $189. Pretty reasonable. I got a 2nd Mass Hysteria with all 3 standard Ghost bundles, all 4 Impossible ghost packs, Impossible Slimer and Indulnas, and the Taxi Drivers for $227 (less than what the guy paid to buy it in the Kickstarter), so there are deals to be had. Also reasonable prices on individual figures too from some sellers.

Infernodragon1
01-24-2016, 03:40 AM
It's not *that* obscure, it was in the first IDW trade that Dan Schoening drew, who does the illustrations for the game (it's why I ended up picking it up). Maybe better for a Kickstarter exclusive add-on pack.

I just want to fight a boss that throws ghost kids at you. lol

(Ellen the headmistress at the Wander Hillls Orphanage. She burnt the place down with the orphans in it. When the Ghostbusters encounter her, she tosses the orphan ghosts at them as weapons)

And, yeah, as skynight said, none of that stuff is getting released in retail (at least in the form it was in the Kickstarter). Just get it on e-Bay and suck all your friends into it so they all back the next one. ;-) I just saw a Mass Hysteria pledge with an Impossible ghost pack, Impossible Slimer and Indulnas, Taxi Drivers, and Spectrals for about $189. Pretty reasonable. I got a 2nd Mass Hysteria with all 3 standard Ghost bundles, all 4 Impossible ghost packs, Impossible Slimer and Indulnas, and the Taxi Drivers for $227 (less than what the guy paid to buy it in the Kickstarter), so there are deals to be had. Also reasonable prices on individual figures too from some sellers.

the only problem with that is that I'd have to save up to get it and by the time I got the money together it'd be sold. unlike you I don't have a disposable income to burn on kickstarters and ebay. it took me months just to save up for the retail version because I wanted to play the game with my friends but they probably won't want to play it because unlike me, who is a diehard fan of the franchise, all they've seen are the movies ad the only thing recognizable as Ghostbusters in the retail version of the game to those who have only seen the films are the Ghostbusters themselves, Slimer, the Ecto-1 and stay puffed. everything else is either from the toy line, the cartoon or the IDW comic. when I mentioned Idulnus there exact exchange with me was:
friend:"Who the f*** is Idulus?"
me:"He's Gozer's third General"
friend:"well why aren't Gozer and the terror dogs in the game?"
me:"because they were marked as kickstarter exclusives"
friend:"well that's dumb, is there any way to get them on ebay?"
me:"yeah, but they're super expensive, I'd be practically paying for a second game just for those three and they'd get sold before I could get them."
friend:"oh, right, your money situation. welp, that sucks."

so tell me Krusticlese, how am I supposed to expand my game if all I can do is save up several months for a retail expansion release? oh wait, that's right, I can't because cryptozoic painted themselves into a corner by keeping all the iconic ghosts from the cartoon and first movie as kickstarter exclusives. so they're faced with either keeping their promise and pissing off thousands of people or breaking their promise and pissing off thousands of people. either way they're going to be pissing people off but alternate sculpts/stats/colors/etc. makes it to where considerably less people get pissed off about the kickstarter stuff going to retail.

Meankeb
01-24-2016, 07:22 AM
I think the remedy is Kickstarter #2. While it's not necessarily a retail platform, it does give them a chance to remedy some Mass Hysteria issues.

1) All Kickstarter Exclusives are available (except those that were truly supposed to be a first edition, limited release forever)
2) New casting material (used for the second batch of Boogaloo's) can be substituted in
3) New scenarios! (and any printing / editing / rules errata can be released as "hard" content)
4) Impossible mode releases (Gozer/Terror Dogs, Cathulu, etc.)
5) New character!
6) New ghosts!
7) New tiles!
8) Second themed storage box for the growing army of minis
9) Best of all, potentially reduced prices. The templates now exist for everything, they may take mercy and lower the prices on the price-point of the original content for those who are sponsoring through Kickstarter

Janine Melnitz: “Do you want some coffee, Mr. Tully?”
Louis Tully: “Do I?”
Egon Spengler: “Yes, have some.”
Louis Tully: “Yes, have some.”

DocX
01-24-2016, 09:09 AM
It's not *that* obscure

Compared to being in the original movie, it is *that* obscure. Seen by thousands vs seen by tends of millions. Pretty big difference in obscurity.


And, yeah, as skynight said, none of that stuff is getting released in retail (at least in the form it was in the Kickstarter). Just get it on e-Bay and suck all your friends into it so they all back the next one. ;-)

And support scalpers and speculators? Sure, no worries. I love giving my money to profiteers instead of to the company that originally made the game.... oh, wait... no, I don't. I want to give my money to Cryptozoic, not some profiteering jackanape on eBay who made a good bet on a game. Same reason I didn't buy any rare Amiibo while the crazy speculation was going on. If/when Cryptozoic makes and releases versions of the Kickstarter figures, I'll consider buying what I don't already have (Mass Hysteria backer) and using that to introduce others in my gaming circle to the game so they can have their own copies (and stop using mine).

Ultimately, I think not having the more recognizable characters available will be to the detriment of the longevity of the game. But, if you and others want to stick to the "Hey, I got mine and others can spend scalper premiums on eBay" mentality even if it means reducing the available expansions (and profitability thereof) for the game. Go ahead. Continue that selfishness.

Krusticlese
01-24-2016, 06:24 PM
the only problem with that is that I'd have to save up to get it and by the time I got the money together it'd be sold. unlike you I don't have a disposable income to burn on kickstarters and ebay. it took me months just to save up for the retail version because I wanted to play the game with my friends but they probably won't want to play it because unlike me, who is a diehard fan of the franchise, all they've seen are the movies ad the only thing recognizable as Ghostbusters in the retail version of the game to those who have only seen the films are the Ghostbusters themselves, Slimer, the Ecto-1 and stay puffed. everything else is either from the toy line, the cartoon or the IDW comic. when I mentioned Idulnus there exact exchange with me was:
friend:"Who the f*** is Idulus?"
me:"He's Gozer's third General"
friend:"well why aren't Gozer and the terror dogs in the game?"
me:"because they were marked as kickstarter exclusives"
friend:"well that's dumb, is there any way to get them on ebay?"
me:"yeah, but they're super expensive, I'd be practically paying for a second game just for those three and they'd get sold before I could get them."
friend:"oh, right, your money situation. welp, that sucks."

so tell me Krusticlese, how am I supposed to expand my game if all I can do is save up several months for a retail expansion release? oh wait, that's right, I can't because cryptozoic painted themselves into a corner by keeping all the iconic ghosts from the cartoon and first movie as kickstarter exclusives. so they're faced with either keeping their promise and pissing off thousands of people or breaking their promise and pissing off thousands of people. either way they're going to be pissing people off but alternate sculpts/stats/colors/etc. makes it to where considerably less people get pissed off about the kickstarter stuff going to retail.

I don't have 'disposable income', but I got the 2nd set for extra Flushes, Spawns, base set tiles, and the exclusive tiles. I sold the rest off indivudally and actually made money from it within about 2 weeks.

The point being that you don't need to go into debt to get what you want. I had sold off extra Heroclix before hand to get the loot to get the 2nd Mass Hysteria pledge to begin with. No money out of pocket.

Just offering solutions, there's no need to be salty.

Krusticlese
01-24-2016, 06:31 PM
Compared to being in the original movie, it is *that* obscure. Seen by thousands vs seen by tends of millions. Pretty big difference in obscurity.



And support scalpers and speculators? Sure, no worries. I love giving my money to profiteers instead of to the company that originally made the game.... oh, wait... no, I don't. I want to give my money to Cryptozoic, not some profiteering jackanape on eBay who made a good bet on a game. Same reason I didn't buy any rare Amiibo while the crazy speculation was going on. If/when Cryptozoic makes and releases versions of the Kickstarter figures, I'll consider buying what I don't already have (Mass Hysteria backer) and using that to introduce others in my gaming circle to the game so they can have their own copies (and stop using mine).

Ultimately, I think not having the more recognizable characters available will be to the detriment of the longevity of the game. But, if you and others want to stick to the "Hey, I got mine and others can spend scalper premiums on eBay" mentality even if it means reducing the available expansions (and profitability thereof) for the game. Go ahead. Continue that selfishness.

That's a bit of hyperbole saying that if folks buy on e-Bay that it means no expansions. If you want what was in the Kickstarter, it's an option. If not, ignore it and wait for an expansion with alt sculpts/ stats/ whatever. If Cryptozoic thinks it is viable, I'm sure they will do it.

If you missed the Kickstarter, and won't buy on the secondary market... what's the purpose of complaining?

Meankeb
01-24-2016, 06:53 PM
If you missed the Kickstarter, and won't buy on the secondary market... what's the purpose of complaining?

I would say that it is more of a critique of Kickstarter. You've got 30 days (ish) to hear about the campaign, either by being a Kickstarter acolyte, or vicariously through social media, or...tough noogies. This coming from a Kickstarter regular, I believe that it does highly favor the risk-taking, "have your money now" crowd.

MattMurdock
01-24-2016, 08:05 PM
I would say that it is more of a critique of Kickstarter. You've got 30 days (ish) to hear about the campaign, either by being a Kickstarter acolyte, or vicariously through social media, or...tough noogies. This coming from a Kickstarter regular, I believe that it does highly favor the risk-taking, "have your money now" crowd.

This is very much so. A kickstarters odds of success are increased dramatically the more lead time and marketing that potential backers are given prior to the event itself taking place (from my own personal experience with marketing on kickstarter projects). Before a kickstarter takes place it should have (if not made public) at least half a dozen stretch goals identified and worked out logistically as to the impact of their development, exclusivity and its impact on the finished products sales/potential for future sale. Potential backers should know (via websites, edm's and social media) for at least a month prior when the kickstarter will be starting and what price points they should be looking to spend, so they can allocate funding and encourage friends to participate also. As I have mentioned before, I didnt find out about the original kickstarter until 2 days after it closed so I have no idea if any of these things happened previously (we know as Sara mentioned that mistakes were made about exclusivity in the stress of the moment).

Fingers crossed whatever they have in mind for the future is well planned out and runs smoother to avoid a repeat of the problems we have seen sofar.

DocX
01-25-2016, 08:09 AM
That's a bit of hyperbole saying that if folks buy on e-Bay that it means no expansions. If you want what was in the Kickstarter, it's an option. If not, ignore it and wait for an expansion with alt sculpts/ stats/ whatever. If Cryptozoic thinks it is viable, I'm sure they will do it.

Folks buying on eBay instead of from Cryptozoic means less money in Cryptozoic's coffers. It's not that it'll mean no expansions, but it will diminish the longevity of the game.

Cryptozoic is cognizant of the feelings of their community. They also, in my experience, are loathe to go back on a promise they've made. I'd wager they'd love to make new figures of Gozer, Janine, et. al available as an expansion that could be sold at retail (or even sold directly from them, though that introduces its own issues by excluding retailers and distributors) but have not yet because of the "promise" they made during the Kickstarter. And having folks like you rail against it repeatedly would tend to make them more hesitant, I'd imagine.


If you missed the Kickstarter, and won't buy on the secondary market... what's the purpose of complaining?

I didn't miss the Kickstarter, but I know others who did. I'm voicing my opinion in favor of releasing the "exclusives" in another manner so others can enjoy the game I currently enjoy with all of the figures, scenarios, etc. that I currently have.

Brandon_the_Wut
01-27-2016, 11:19 PM
Just curious as to which of you who are for the release of the Kickstarter 'exclusive' figures actually missed out on the Kickstarter and didn't get the figures?

I missed out on every Zombicide KS, but don't expect them to release them because I missed it.


I got everything. I am for releasing the KS exclusives in some fashion for everyone, even if it is later down the line. I am at least happy they left open the possibility that the exclusives might be available in possible futures KS campaigns.

sara.miguel
01-28-2016, 11:33 AM
I appreciate you guys being open to rereleasing figures, but they are indeed KS exclusive. It's a tough spot, but we are holding our word.

Infernodragon1
01-28-2016, 09:17 PM
I appreciate you guys being open to rereleasing figures, but they are indeed KS exclusive. It's a tough spot, but we are holding our word.

then whoever made that promise has severely crippled the longevity of this game and the audience it will reach. this game had so much potential. but because the BASIC STRETCH GOALS FOR THE RETAIL RELEASE (new ghostbusters, sam hain, Gozer Zuul, Vinz, Peck, Librarian, Boogeyman, Cthulhu and his spawn, Shandor, the fearsome flushes and the big boogaloo) were marked as EXCLUSIVE TO KICKSTARTER the game has been completely crippled as far as longevity is concerned. These Characters didn't even require a mass hysteria pledge to get, they were STRETCH GOALS for crying out loud! there's no reason these should be locked as kickstarter exclusives! the stuff on the mass hysteria level, and above that's fine, keep those as exclusives. they're part of the kickstarter edition of the game.
4188
but these were made available with THE MOST BASIC VERSION OF THE GAME! there's no reason these should be marked as exclusive aside from someone possibly accidentally marking them as exclusive.

DocX
01-29-2016, 09:07 AM
I appreciate you guys being open to rereleasing figures, but they are indeed KS exclusive. It's a tough spot, but we are holding our word.

Your choice, but I agree with Infernodragon1. This will limit the long-term longevity of the game as it won't provide the ability for casual players to see the bad guys they're most familiar with.

If your plan is to make new versions based on the upcoming movie that are different versions of Gozer, Zuul, etc. then that'll be a good way to step around the problem will not breaking your word. I live in hope.

Skyknight
01-29-2016, 09:50 AM
Well, there are tons of ghosts from the cartoons that could be made for expansions, but the most recognizable ones have been ruled out already!

And in terms of playable characters, there are only so many that can be made, so none of them should've been exclusive. This is not like Zombicide! You can take literally any character from a movie or tv series and throw them into a zombie setting. But can't do that with Ghostbusters! There are only three teams that've officially done the Proton Pack so far: Original Guys, New Ghostbusters from the comics and Extreme Ghostbusters from the cartoons(and they can't do those because everyone would ask "Where's Kylie?")!

They could wait until the new movie comes out and do the Feigbusters, but that would be a great risk as no one can say by now if the movie will be good or bad!
Other options would be limited to fanfilms like "Return of the Ghostbusters"! Now that would be an obscure reference, as only the real hardcore fans know about them at all!

I agree with everyone that says the longevity of the game has been compromised. Sometimes I think I shouldn't even care, because I will most likely not even get to play all of the scenarios in the MH box, but I still wish that the game does well and I can't really see it with the content of the retail box alone and the severely crippled possibilities for add ons!

Krusticlese
01-29-2016, 11:02 AM
It doesn't rule out that you'd never see another Samhain, Gozer, Terror Dogs, etc... only that those versions will remain KS exclusive. Put down the pitchforks fellows.

They know the errors they made, and Sara has said they have stuff in the pipeline.

Like I said before, doing a new expansion with Gozer/ Dogs having new sculpts and new ability cards and new tiles seems like a good way to keep the originals exclusive and fufill the KS promise while expanding options for players who missed the KS and for some reason don't look for deals on the secondary market (note- most of the exclusives I sold were in the range of $7-15 for the figures, which isn't unreasonable).

I'd also note for those championing making the 'recognizable' figures from the movie over lesser known characters from the books- once all of those big name characters get made, interest would naturally wane anyway since people would have what they want. It has to be a balance of lesser known ghosts with the big guys to stretch interest over years. You don't want to blow that customer base by giving thek exactly what they want off the bat. If you do, there's no reason for them to hang around.

When you break it down, there really weren't many Ghosts in the Ghostbusters movies at all. Maybe 20 different ones total. Once they are made, you lose the hook to pull in 'movie only' fans. I like the idea of lesser known characters, as it gets me interested in the comics and revisiting the cartoon and video games.

Brandon_the_Wut
01-29-2016, 07:33 PM
I'd also note for those championing making the 'recognizable' figures from the movie over lesser known characters from the books- once all of those big name characters get made, interest would naturally wane anyway since people would have what they want. It has to be a balance of lesser known ghosts with the big guys to stretch interest over years. You don't want to blow that customer base by giving thek exactly what they want off the bat. If you do, there's no reason for them to hang around.

Well said.

Skyknight
01-30-2016, 02:46 AM
Like I said before, doing a new expansion with Gozer/ Dogs having new sculpts and new ability cards and new tiles seems like a good way to keep the originals exclusive and fufill the KS promise while expanding options for players who missed the KS and for some reason don't look for deals on the secondary market (note- most of the exclusives I sold were in the range of $7-15 for the figures, which isn't unreasonable).
But that wouldn't fulfill the KS promise, because they also promised no variations of exclusive characters ever!
And that's where the cookie crumbles!

No offense, but if I were the owner of a company and one of my employees made such a stupid(read business breaking) promise, that guy would have been fired ages ago. Or at least demoted and transfered to the postal department!

BradBosshart
01-30-2016, 05:04 AM
If I remember right form the campaign, they padded that statement. They said they weren't planning on doing it, but they didn't promise that they wouldn't ever do it.

Krusticlese
01-31-2016, 01:00 AM
But that wouldn't fulfill the KS promise, because they also promised no variations of exclusive characters ever!
And that's where the cookie crumbles!

No offense, but if I were the owner of a company and one of my employees made such a stupid(read business breaking) promise, that guy would have been fired ages ago. Or at least demoted and transfered to the postal department!

Could you link to where this was said? I followed the campaign from the beginning and never saw anyone from Cryptozoic state that. Maybe I missed that somewhere.

Skyknight
01-31-2016, 01:20 AM
I'm trying to find it again, but will not read through 40k comments to do so. If I remember right, some people were concerned about how exclusive the exclusives will be and if they would be rereleased in different colors or sculpt and after checking back with the bosses, Sara answered they won't do that, because exclusive means exclusive!

Edit:
Don't have to read through 40k comments. Sara already confirmed it in this very thread here:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=46737&p=547311&viewfull=1#post547311

backers demanded that figs be exclusive, regardless of color, sculpt, etc. We obliged.

Alxndrxvier
01-31-2016, 06:14 PM
Here's a thought. Do another Kickstarter with just the expansion pieces. I backed the original and wish that I had gotten a few more pieces/expansion packs. That would keep it KS exclusive and give people who either didn't back the original or couldn't or, like me, wish they had gotten more now that we are actually playing the game the chance to get what they want. As far as I can tell that would solve all the issues all the way around.

stevenbiggie
01-31-2016, 08:27 PM
I Agree with Alxndrxvier . Keeping the Stretch goals within the Kickstarter realm I don't believe would break Cryptozoic's word to the backers. Remember Kickstarter Exclusive Says nothing about which Kickstarter they are exclusive to. Simply that they are exclusive to Kickstarter. Maybe during the Ghostbusters 2 Kickstarter (if they do another one Fingers crossed. ) They could offer these up as a kickstarter Exclusive Add on or something of that nature. Even if someone couldn't afford pay for say a mass Hysteria level pledge they might be able to create an add on pledge level for those who cant afford the more expensive pledge levels but still would like to be able to purchase some of the Exclusive figures from the first Kickstarter. I want everyone to enjoy this game with those figures too, but to simply put them out on retail for everyone to buy at there leisure I feel would be a slap in the face to those backers who pledged there hard earned money to reach those stretch goals to have those figures created for the game. They Were never Guarranteed to even be in the game unless we reached those stretch goals. All the backers Deserve to have those figures remain only Available on Kickstarters for Ghostbusters as a reward for backing the game in some aspect. Fair is fair and a promise was made and should be kept. Just my 2 cents. Also Don't forget there wouldn't even be a Ghostbuster game period without the support from the backers. not trying to ruffle anyones feathers who thinks they should go retail. I backed this Game and was glad to be a part of it. I feel the exclusives are an ample reward for making this game a reality. Quote from Peter Venkman. "I love this Plan! I'm Glad to be a Part of it!"

Infernodragon1
02-01-2016, 06:17 AM
It doesn't rule out that you'd never see another Samhain, Gozer, Terror Dogs, etc... only that those versions will remain KS exclusive. Put down the pitchforks fellows.

They know the errors they made, and Sara has said they have stuff in the pipeline.

Like I said before, doing a new expansion with Gozer/ Dogs having new sculpts and new ability cards and new tiles seems like a good way to keep the originals exclusive and fufill the KS promise while expanding options for players who missed the KS and for some reason don't look for deals on the secondary market (note- most of the exclusives I sold were in the range of $7-15 for the figures, which isn't unreasonable).

I'd also note for those championing making the 'recognizable' figures from the movie over lesser known characters from the books- once all of those big name characters get made, interest would naturally wane anyway since people would have what they want. It has to be a balance of lesser known ghosts with the big guys to stretch interest over years. You don't want to blow that customer base by giving thek exactly what they want off the bat. If you do, there's no reason for them to hang around.

When you break it down, there really weren't many Ghosts in the Ghostbusters movies at all. Maybe 20 different ones total. Once they are made, you lose the hook to pull in 'movie only' fans. I like the idea of lesser known characters, as it gets me interested in the comics and revisiting the cartoon and video games.

Krusticlese I get the point you're making. "don't release them all at once" you're right, putting everything out at once would also hinder the game longevity wise just as much as if they aren't released at all at retail. a good balance would be releasing 1 or 2 of the stretch goal bosses per expansion as well as some more obscure or recognizable ghosts from the cartoon, toy line, the video game and IDW comics.

for example let's say expansion one has the vinz clortho, Sam Hain, the big boogaloo, some fearsome flushes, some grabber ghosts, some bellhop ghosts and Janine along with the sedgewick tiles and some scenarios.
for expansion two "library of madness" theme, it would have the librarian and Shandor, Big Cthulhu, some cthulhu spawn, some wrapper ghosts, some crustos, the library tiles and Kylie, with some scenarios.

and so on and so forth. this way it maximizes longevity and allows for everything to get released eventually without just releasing all the stretch goal stuff in one expansion.

Infernodragon1
02-01-2016, 06:46 AM
Here's a thought. Do another Kickstarter with just the expansion pieces. I backed the original and wish that I had gotten a few more pieces/expansion packs. That would keep it KS exclusive and give people who either didn't back the original or couldn't or, like me, wish they had gotten more now that we are actually playing the game the chance to get what they want. As far as I can tell that would solve all the issues all the way around.

that's not how kickstarter works. Kickstarter is a platform for people to crowdfund a project that will eventually go to retail like a video game, a board game, a card game, inventions, etc. it's a way for people to cover the production/licensing/marketing/distribution costs from potential customers. it's not meant to be an online shop.


I want everyone to enjoy this game with those figures too, but to simply put them out on retail for everyone to buy at there leisure I feel would be a slap in the face to those backers who pledged there hard earned money to reach those stretch goals to have those figures created for the game. They Were never Guarranteed to even be in the game unless we reached those stretch goals. All the backers Deserve to have those figures remain only Available on Kickstarters for Ghostbusters as a reward for backing the game in some aspect. Fair is fair and a promise was made and should be kept. Just my 2 cents. Also Don't forget there wouldn't even be a Ghostbuster game period without the support from the backers. not trying to ruffle anyones feathers who thinks they should go retail. I backed this Game and was glad to be a part of it. I feel the exclusives are an ample reward for making this game a reality. Quote from Peter Venkman. "I love this Plan! I'm Glad to be a Part of it!"

the only problem is that all kickstarter projects that I've seen outside of this one in particular DIDN'T MAKE THE STRETCH GOALS KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVES! stretch goals are meant to be the bonuses and stuff that get added to the final retail release of the product getting funded. the stretch goals should NEVER have been marked as kickstarter exclusives in the first place! as I've said before, the extras for the mass hysteria level (Tobin's, sandman, GitD Slimer and dice, the impossible mode stuff, the taxi drivers, and the spectral ghostbusters) that's fine, I understand having those remain as KS exclusives because they were for a high tier pledge and only that tier of pledge or higher and they weren't marked as stretch goals. the problem is that the ones actually marked as STRETCH GOALS were made available at the most basic tier of just pre-ordering the retail version of the base game. I feel making the stretch goal ghosts, ghostbusters, and tiles available at retail and keeping the rest KS exclusive is a fair compromise to make everyone happy.

Krusticlese
02-01-2016, 07:15 PM
Well, if the backers demanded it- we've got no one but ourselves to blame for not being louder than they were during the campaign.

Krusticlese
02-01-2016, 07:19 PM
I'll also go on record that the phrase 'a slap in the face' is thrown around way too often these days. lol

DocX
02-02-2016, 10:42 AM
Well, if the backers demanded it- we've got no one but ourselves to blame for not being louder than they were during the campaign.

Yep. Nobody saw the consequences of the poor decision CZE made, especially CZE. But, yeah, let's blame ourselves for this. . . or we could simply blame the people who keep complaining about the idea of making the things non-Exclusive. Yeah, I think I'll simply blame Krusti and his ilk and not blame myself.

Krusticlese
02-02-2016, 08:41 PM
Yep. Nobody saw the consequences of the poor decision CZE made, especially CZE. But, yeah, let's blame ourselves for this. . . or we could simply blame the people who keep complaining about the idea of making the things non-Exclusive. Yeah, I think I'll simply blame Krusti and his ilk and not blame myself.

Is there a reason you are being hostile? What does "I'll simply blame Krusti and his ilk" mean?

I'll be happy with any expansions and another Kickstarter, regardless if we don't see any of those original KS exclusives reprinted. Just more of a reason for my friends I've gotten into the game to come on over for a visit and some gaming!

For the record, I don't care what Cryptozoic does, but I understand the situation they made by promising those characters remain KS exclusive. Perhaps they should conduct a poll of their original backers to gauge an opinion on releasing them retail or not. Either way, they'll likely appear as the boss pack again in the next KS.

MattMurdock
02-03-2016, 11:08 PM
If there is a new kickstarter coming I really hope it isnt within the next month or so, since I have backed another very famous 80's pop culture icon board game on kickstarter and my spending money for at least the next month is now gone!

DocX
02-04-2016, 05:44 AM
Is there a reason you are being hostile? What does "I'll simply blame Krusti and his ilk" mean?

You have consistently promoted the idea that the figures should not be reprinted and CZE should be held to their word. I think the "promise" they made was naive and they should be given a mulligan on that to be able to reprint/resculpt and release some of the more iconic figures of the franchise (Gozer, Zuul, Walter Peck, et. al).

And I don't think it's hostile to point out when blame is being incorrectly placed and point out where blame should be placed.


I'll be happy with any expansions and another Kickstarter, regardless if we don't see any of those original KS exclusives reprinted. Just more of a reason for my friends I've gotten into the game to come on over for a visit and some gaming!

And, as a former game store owner and a current purchaser of goods from local game stores, I think getting games like this on shelves instead of relegating them to Kickstarter exclusively is a good idea and would get more people to see and purchase the game.


For the record, I don't care what Cryptozoic does [...]

For the record, I do care what Cryptozoic does. That's why I've been active in this thread. Curious why, if you don't care, you've been so active. Okay, not actually curious, but pointing it out.

ItchyAaron
02-04-2016, 09:04 AM
the only problem is that all kickstarter projects that I've seen outside of this one in particular DIDN'T MAKE THE STRETCH GOALS KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVES! stretch goals are meant to be the bonuses and stuff that get added to the final retail release of the product getting funded. the stretch goals should NEVER have been marked as kickstarter exclusives in the first place! as I've said before, the extras for the mass hysteria level (Tobin's, sandman, GitD Slimer and dice, the impossible mode stuff, the taxi drivers, and the spectral ghostbusters) that's fine, I understand having those remain as KS exclusives because they were for a high tier pledge and only that tier of pledge or higher and they weren't marked as stretch goals. the problem is that the ones actually marked as STRETCH GOALS were made available at the most basic tier of just pre-ordering the retail version of the base game. I feel making the stretch goal ghosts, ghostbusters, and tiles available at retail and keeping the rest KS exclusive is a fair compromise to make everyone happy.

I'm not trying to throw fuel on a fire here, but I backed the Zombicide: Black Plague Kickstarter and they had a mix of Kickstarter Exclusive stretch goals and non-exclusive stretch goals (that will go to retail once they have all been produced). I could go back and take a look at what the ratio was, but only if someone asks. My understanding is that they have done this for all the Zombicide Kickstarters.

That said, after playing this game a friend of mine is buying a retail copy of it and was asking how much of the extra stuff won't be in it. He was a little disappointed at how much less he is getting, but still excited to get to play the game when I'm not there.

As a Mass Hysteria backer, I would be fine with the idea of offering a new sculpt/ new color variation of the "KS exclusive" ghosts in the GB2 KS or even in retail. I wouldn't even care if they keep the ghost mechanics for the character the same. I want to see this game succeed so that I can buy and play more expansions of it.

It WOULD be nice if the Mass Hysteria only (Sandman, etc) stuff stayed exclusive to this KS. That way I still have something that nobody else has.

Rereading, I essentially agree with Infernodragon1. :)

Krusticlese
02-04-2016, 03:40 PM
You have consistently promoted the idea that the figures should not be reprinted and CZE should be held to their word. I think the "promise" they made was naive and they should be given a mulligan on that to be able to reprint/resculpt and release some of the more iconic figures of the franchise (Gozer, Zuul, Walter Peck, et. al).

Naive or not, it was a promise. If they polled the backers and a majority didn't have an issue with a direct to retail release- go for it. If they do have an issue- explore if alt sculpts with new cards would be OK. There are options. I wouldn't turn down a new Gozer.


And I don't think it's hostile to point out when blame is being incorrectly placed and point out where blame should be placed.

You were directing your hostility toward me directly, when Sara had said that the backers demanded the exclusivity. That's the fault of anyone who didn't speak up during the campaign to combat that direction and is currently upset by it. Cryptozoic went on the loudest feedback they received. Personally, I feel what's done is done. Just have a game plan on how to keep legs on the game. Maybe you could drop a suggestion on how to do that while keeping the promise they made, like I did?




And, as a former game store owner and a current purchaser of goods from local game stores, I think getting games like this on shelves instead of relegating them to Kickstarter exclusively is a good idea and would get more people to see and purchase the game.

See, I think retailers need to adapt to Kickstarter and online sales rather than have special exceptions made for them. Learn to compete. Buy pledges like anyone else and sell the figures in store individually, or as an entire Mass Hysteria pledge at a discount over individual prices. There's a ton that could be done. If you can't adapt, you close your doors (as I'm sure you are aware).




the record, I do care what Cryptozoic does. That's why I've been active in this thread. Curious why, if you don't care, you've been so active. Okay, not actually curious, but pointing it out.

As someone who backed for a bunch of the exclusives because they wouldn't be available in retail, I was offering an alternative solution that would maintain the original promise and offer additional content for everyone. Had I known all would eventually be released in retail, I may not have backed the project and could have earned interest on that $400 for the 9+ months in the interim.

I'm active in this thread because as we saw before, the loudest people are who gets listened too. I don't think that a straight release is the best solution so I want to ensure that alternate solutions are presented and considered as well in order to grow the game and the player base, same as you. You can't do that by pissing off the original backers though. It's a fine line, and I do not envy their position.

Skyknight
02-05-2016, 02:58 AM
I'm not trying to throw fuel on a fire here, but I backed the Zombicide: Black Plague Kickstarter and they had a mix of Kickstarter Exclusive stretch goals and non-exclusive stretch goals (that will go to retail once they have all been produced). I could go back and take a look at what the ratio was, but only if someone asks. My understanding is that they have done this for all the Zombicide Kickstarters.

That said, after playing this game a friend of mine is buying a retail copy of it and was asking how much of the extra stuff won't be in it. He was a little disappointed at how much less he is getting, but still excited to get to play the game when I'm not there.

As a Mass Hysteria backer, I would be fine with the idea of offering a new sculpt/ new color variation of the "KS exclusive" ghosts in the GB2 KS or even in retail. I wouldn't even care if they keep the ghost mechanics for the character the same. I want to see this game succeed so that I can buy and play more expansions of it.

It WOULD be nice if the Mass Hysteria only (Sandman, etc) stuff stayed exclusive to this KS. That way I still have something that nobody else has.

Rereading, I essentially agree with Infernodragon1. :)
Like I pointed out before, the Zombicide games are a very different case. On there the exclusives are either different sculpts of original figures(like female versions of the abominations), that play the same rulewise, or characters from other franchises that are completely optional(you don't need them because there's enough diversity in the playable characters you can get in the different base games and expansions).
That works with survivors in a Zombie scenario, because anybody can be a survivor in those. But you simply can't make characters from other movies and TV series become Ghostbusters, it doesn't work this way in our game. If there is only a limited amount of characters that you can choose from, none of them should become exclusive. They should have been also included in the retail version or held back for a later expansion. Same with the iconic ghosts and the floortiles from movie locations.

Impossible Mode Stay Puft makes a great exclusive, IM of the other boss ghosts would've been great exclusive, too. Different sculpts of the player characters would've been good exclusives(like looking more like Real Ghostbusters cartoon or something). More Ghostbusters to choose from and the most recognizable ghosts from the cartoons? Really, really bad choice for exclusives, all of those would've been better in an expansion!

Now that all those things are in the MH already, I don't think I would buy an expansion at all, because I already do have all the best stuff.
If those things would've come in an expansion also, I would've bought that expansion in addition to the retail game instead of wasting more money for the MH on the geek market and my money would've gone to Cryptozoic instead of a private reseller. Now the only thing I could see me buying would be GB2!

DocX
02-05-2016, 08:41 AM
Going to say my peace on this, then leave. It seems CZE is sticking to their guns (from what Sara said)


You were directing your hostility toward me directly, when Sara had said that the backers demanded the exclusivity. That's the fault of anyone who didn't speak up during the campaign to combat that direction and is currently upset by it.

Ahh, so since I backed, but didn't jump onto the Kickstarter forum and instead was here on the Cryptozoic forum, it's all my fault. And all those people who didn't hear about the Kickstarter and would have liked the set, but it's too late now, it's all their fault. "Too bad, we got ours, you can sod off" I can hear the small, vocal minority on the Kickstarter forums say.

Also, I'd go back through my Kickstarter e-mails to see if there was an update that said "Hey, we're thinking about keeping all these popular figures only for the backers and not releasing them ever again. What do you think?" to see if I actually missed it, but since it's not gonna change, why waste the effort?


Maybe you could drop a suggestion on how to do that while keeping the promise they made, like I did?

I did. Then I watched the thread to see follow ups. And I saw you post again and again and again saying "Welp, nothing we can do. It sucks, but whatever" or words to that effect.


See, I think retailers need to adapt to Kickstarter and online sales rather than have special exceptions made for them. Learn to compete. Buy pledges like anyone else and sell the figures in store individually, or as an entire Mass Hysteria pledge at a discount over individual prices. There's a ton that could be done. If you can't adapt, you close your doors (as I'm sure you are aware).

Nice back-handed swipe there. I closed because of family matters having nothing to do with being able to adapt. Also, my suggestion of making the figures/cards available was not making a special exception. It is standard practice for folks who make a product to want to be able to sell that product. That involves retailers (and distributors).

But I'll say your suggestion that all retailers need to do is adapt is absolutely true and supremely naive. The number of things a business owner needs to keep track of is tremendous. Pre-orders, re-stocking, keeping up with local and industry trends, plus all the things dealing with keeping doors open (rent, electricity, water, internet, taxes, employees, etc). Yeah, they need to adapt, but many likely have a severe time deficit they're already dealing with. Also, game store owners aren't getting rich. But sure, Mr. Internet Commentator, how about you weigh in on what other people should do. Seems a thing you're comfortable with, given how you already said what other people should have done during the Kickstarter.



As someone who backed for a bunch of the exclusives because they wouldn't be available in retail, I was offering an alternative solution that would maintain the original promise and offer additional content for everyone. Had I known all would eventually be released in retail, I may not have backed the project and could have earned interest on that $400 for the 9+ months in the interim.

"I got mine. Too bad for y'all." Got it.


I'm active in this thread because as we saw before, the loudest people are who gets listened too. I don't think that a straight release is the best solution [...]

"... because then other people would have what I got and they wouldn't have had to back early and forego the almost $5 I would have gotten in interest." Got it.


You can't do that by pissing off the original backers though. It's a fine line, and I do not envy their position.

I'm an original backer and I'm pretty pissed. Admittedly, it's not CZE that's pissing me off. They're merely disappointing me. But now I'm going to do what I do whenever I get angry at the internet. Leave and stop interacting with supremely irritating people.

Cheers!

sara.miguel
02-05-2016, 02:40 PM
Y'all need to play nice or I am going to have to start getting involved.

Yes, we can agree to disagree.

Yes, not everyone likes the decisions made.

Please stop fighting.

Krusticlese
02-06-2016, 04:31 PM
I've been as cool as a cucumber. :-)

To shift gears- I've been slowly picking up the IDW comic series. There seems to be a plethora of content to pull from in these books that weren't in the movies or the cartoon.

MattMurdock
02-25-2016, 10:36 PM
If there is a second kickstarter coming up, and since there have been some regrets expressed about the exclusivity in the first kickstarter, perhaps it is worth looking at what TMNT did in their kickstarter. Granted the games are different in that new heroes and villians will be released as expansion packs, but making a clear disclaimer that the kickstarter scuplts would be unique and well in advance of when any future retail versions will end up hitting the market, seemed to work really well. Of course this couldn't apply for any past exclusive ghosts that might make a second appearance as an "add on" but could certainly work for any deluxe stretch goal ghosts that get unlocked during the campaign.

Werechicken
02-26-2016, 09:00 AM
Sara,
Honestly, I think the question was answered and this thread should be closed.

sara.miguel
02-26-2016, 12:21 PM
Sara,
Honestly, I think the question was answered and this thread should be closed.

True. No sense in beating a dead horse.

Guess you all will have to wait and see ;)