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MattMurdock
12-11-2015, 09:20 PM
So I was thinking about this idea along with the economic upgrades that I mentioned but I thought this deserved a seperate thread.

What I thought is that it would be cool if a Ghostbuster could elect to take a Slimeblower instead of a proton pack. The unique opportunity here is to have a weapon which forfits the ability to bust ghosts directly, but would be able to help other teammates out immeasurably by 'debuffing' multiple ghosts and restricting ghost movement. (As the positively charged slime should interfere with the ghost or gates normal charge)
I dont think the slimeblower should be a roll to hit weapon as such, it coats such a big area that it should auto "hit" but that its role should require more strategic thinking as to where the slime is used (and how much) then shooting a proton pack.

I have tried to come up with ideas that work with the existing character cards so wouldnt need too much/if any changing. (I only have the regular busters though).

Slimblower:
Treat this weapon as having a line of sight of 2 spaces.
When you begin the game, place 6 positively charged slime tokens of your character's colour next to your character card.
At any time you are adjacent to the Ecto-1 you may use an action to "refill" your slimeblower.

As an action, (attack) you may "shoot" slime by placing one of your postively charged slime tokens out to your line of sight. You may then place upto two more positively charged slime tokens in squares that are adjacent to the first token (remaining within line of sight). There is no proton roll required for this. You cannot place/stack more than one token on a single square in the same action, but you can add additional slime tokens with subsequent actions.

If one or more of those squares contain a ghost, place the slime token under the ghost. If the square contains a Ghostbuster, place the slime token on that characters card.

If a ghost is "hit" by your slime, treat it as a 'missed' proton roll and perform the "When missed" instructions on the Ghost's card.
If a ghost would move across a space, but there is an equal or greater number of positively charged slime tokens equal to the ghost's level in that space, then the ghost will not cross that space and must move in the next closest available direction instead.

Slimeblowers cannot trap ghosts or close gates, however each slime allocated against a ghost or gate may be counted as one stream when another player with a proton pack busts the ghost or gate. When a ghost/gate is 'busted' the player with the slimeblower gains 1XP for every slime that was counted in this way.
Slime that is under a ghost or on a character travels with that character and can only be removed by:
1) the Ghost passing through a solid (red line) object
2) the slime expires.
3) the slime is cleaned off by another character.

Characters who are slimed by positively charged slime lose an action (as per regular slime), but are immune to incapacitating or controlling effects. (such as fear, or sleep).

At the beginning of your next turn, the slime from prior turns expires (drains away). Remove all of your used coloured slime tokens on the board (or other characters sheets) and return them to the Ecto-1.

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examples/reasoning

So a great use would be that you could slime 2 or 3 ghosts, for teammates to then bust them easier and not being quite so limited by the usual LOS or range rules if the ghost moves away from you in a tight area, but you do only have 1 turn before the slime comes off for your teammate to finish them.
The reason why I put the range at 2, is because it should be less than a proton stream, but also allows for the +1 range from Peter at level 5 to bring it up to 3 spaces.
Looking at the economic idea I was thinking of an upgrade purchase that increases the slime from 6 to 9, so you potentially get 3 shots off before having to refill.
The protection for characters was inspired by MMO gaming type buffs, and I think its fair to still lose an action as the slime is goopy and unweildy, that it should have some bonus that isnt as cut and dried as a stat buff, so some sort of fortitude or resistance (particularly to difficult bosses) seemed appropriate. The slime only lasts 1 turn so would need to be reapplied each turn, so I dont really see it being spammed as the squares need to be adjacent, so unless all 3 busters stood together then you wouldnt really have the whole team buffed (unless they all had slimeblowers but then noone could bust any ghosts).

What do you guys think? :)

Werechicken
12-11-2015, 09:37 PM
This is really interesting. I encourage anyone to come up with more equipment uses.

You know what would make slimeblowers way more fun?

When your character gets possessed....

The_Xavious
12-12-2015, 02:50 AM
I had some ideas for alternate packs, based off the video game functions. My approach is a lot different than yours though, instead of reworking existing systems to make something work entirely new, I'm adding a few tweaks to to whats already there to add some wrinkles to the gameplay. Nothing against your idea, but such a radical change might be hard to fully balance around some of the bonus characters, and having too many in play might make some scenarios unwinnable.

Here's my idea:

Slime Blower

When a Ghostbuster is using the Slime Blower, whenever you take an action to remove slime from an adjacent Ghostbuster, you may remove slime from any Ghostbuster within line of sight instead.

Whenever you make a successful Proton Roll against a Ghost, do not place a Stream on that Ghost unless you do not currently have a Stream on that Ghost or another Ghostbuster has a Stream on that Ghost.

(My thoughts here are that possession mechanics would probably use some sort of derivative of the slime mechanic, and you probably wouldn't want to be adjacent to them, this helps that. Its also not able to take on anything more than a Class 1 on its own, but its perfectly fine when teamed up. Kind of a heavy restriction, but being able to de-slime at a distance can very easily save you a move action or two, which is pretty dang powerful. The wording is kind of messy though, but the basic idea is that as long as someone else has a stream on it, you can place streams like normal, otherwise you can only have one stream on a ghost.)

Dark Matter Generator

Maximum Line of Sight for Ghostbusters using the Dark Matter Generator is reduced by one.

Whenever you hit a Ghost, if the Ghost would move from an On Hit effect, you may move the Ghost one square of your choice before moving the Ghost from its On Hit effect.

(In the game, the DMG had a stasis beam that would eventually freeze the ghosts, with a shotgun style close range blast to compliment it. I think the reduced range keeps it in theme while keeping its pretty powerful effect in check. I was having a hard time figuring out a clean way to reduce ghost speed, since some of them don't have a set speed and simply go as far as they can until they hit a certain spot. I think this works, as it can either negate their movement or move them out of the way before they move, hopefully preventing a sliming.)

I dunno, that's something I was thinking about for possible equipment. Not complete overhauls, but changes to the existing pack to help them fill a slightly different role.

happyjew
12-12-2015, 01:42 PM
I like what The_Xavious came up with, but would thinking about the following:
Slime Blower - For the purposes of closing gates, a slime blower "stream" counts as two streams. Note you still only get 1 XP per stream (not 2). This is based on the fact that the only way to close portals in the game was with the slime blower, so I figure the blower should have a slightly easier time closing gates. Of course there is the penalty to XP so it comes down to whether you want extra XP or get the gates closed.
CPS - The CPS has the same range as the proton stream. If you hit a ghost with the CPS, subsequent shots do not require line of sight. For every two CPS streams on a ghost, the number of streams required to trap are reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1). If a ghost requires streams from multiple ghostbusters, you still need at least one stream from each required ghostbuster. The CPS cannot catch ghosts on it's own.

For example, if a Gruesome Twosome is hit by a CPS, the next stream from that ghostbuster will hit regardless of LOS, as long as it is still in range. Once hit a second time, the Gruesome Twosome requires only 1 stream to capture. If the CPS is fired at another ghost, all previous streams are lost.

MattMurdock
12-12-2015, 03:08 PM
Whilst I enjoyed the video game for its story, I didnt like the added weapons that were shoehorned into the Proton Pack, I found it just grated with the original style. Hence for me a Slimeblower is as per Ghostbusters II, not the video game, which is why my interpretation cannot bust ghosts or close portals, as all it does is spray slime (but that can be useful). I also dont think you should be able to de-slime someone with a slimeblower, as that just seems the opposite of what it does? (Not a slime vacume)

Babylon1036
12-12-2015, 06:49 PM
I agree with Matt but with the exception of the rocky fig as it was from the game and thus be the only one to have both slim and proton pack. Just put in a gb2 Ray and Winston with blower packs.

ClkwrkDragonfly
12-12-2015, 07:31 PM
I also dont think you should be able to de-slime someone with a slimeblower, as that just seems the opposite of what it does? (Not a slime vacume)

I disagree with this bit. I see it kind of as the slime blower's positive "mood slime" counteracting the draining effects of the negative energy inherent in "slime". Look at the thin coating of slime is actually on Peter after getting slimed by the spud/onionhead/slimer in the first movie, there's really no physical reason Peter should be so out of it... it's purely psychological/metaphysical.

Babylon1036
12-12-2015, 07:45 PM
good point

The_Xavious
12-13-2015, 10:15 AM
I disagree with this bit. I see it kind of as the slime blower's positive "mood slime" counteracting the draining effects of the negative energy inherent in "slime". Look at the thin coating of slime is actually on Peter after getting slimed by the spud/onionhead/slimer in the first movie, there's really no physical reason Peter should be so out of it... it's purely psychological/metaphysical.

That was my reasoning. Plus, in GB2, they sprayed the slime into the painting alongside the proton streams (and I think Vigo? I forget), which i'd say is more or less along the same lines as a portal. If it was nothing more than just non-descript slime, it wouldn't have been much use animating the statue of liberty or excising Vigo from Ray. The positively charged slime counteracts the effects of negativly charged psycho-kinetic energy, since its a source of positively charged PKE.

@Babylon1036 my idea was that the slime blower replaces their proton pack, not to have it alongside the standard pack.


I like what The_Xavious came up with, but would thinking about the following:
Slime Blower - For the purposes of closing gates, a slime blower "stream" counts as two streams. Note you still only get 1 XP per stream (not 2). This is based on the fact that the only way to close portals in the game was with the slime blower, so I figure the blower should have a slightly easier time closing gates. Of course there is the penalty to XP so it comes down to whether you want extra XP or get the gates closed.

I thought about something like that, but the thing is, unless you're Ray, you'll be having a harder time getting XP with the slime blower anyways, since you'd be depending on others to hit a class 2 or higher to trap it, diminishing the amount of XP you can get from ghosts. Plus the portals in the video game were caused from significant build ups of necrotic slime while the ones on the board game aren't necessarily caused from slime directly.


CPS - The CPS has the same range as the proton stream. If you hit a ghost with the CPS, subsequent shots do not require line of sight. For every two CPS streams on a ghost, the number of streams required to trap are reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1). If a ghost requires streams from multiple ghostbusters, you still need at least one stream from each required ghostbuster. The CPS cannot catch ghosts on it's own.

For example, if a Gruesome Twosome is hit by a CPS, the next stream from that ghostbuster will hit regardless of LOS, as long as it is still in range. Once hit a second time, the Gruesome Twosome requires only 1 stream to capture. If the CPS is fired at another ghost, all previous streams are lost.

I had an idea for the CPS with some similar themes. My concern is reducing streams needed for every 2 on them is kind of weird. It wouldn't actually affect a Gruesome Twosome since they'd be trapped on the second stream anyways for anyone else, and a Boogaloo manifestation would still require 3 streams to trap as well.

I think a better way to work that idea is whenever you add a stream to a ghost you already had a stream on, add a second stream. Your wording makes each stream worth 1.5 streams, in the end you'd have to land 5 hits and get the equivelent of 7 streams (4 streams reduce requirement by 2, fifth stream does nothing special), that's a lot of streams but ultimately not helping out that much against that many ghosts, particularly since it still requires a stream from another Ghostbuster. My suggestion would work out to be 3 hits = 5 streams, it would be a bit more useful against a bit wider range of ghosts.

My own idea for the Meson Collider was -1 to hit when you don't have a stream on the ghost or gate, but losing LoS does not remove your streams from the target unless you do not have line of sight by the end of the turn.

Losing line of sight when its not your turn or on the first actions of your turn won't lose you your streams immediately, giving you time to get back into position, but you aren't as good at getting that first hit, making it pretty bad against class 1's without outright denying you access to otherwise easy XP.

I'm not real happy about my design though.

Babylon1036
12-13-2015, 03:29 PM
@The_Xavious I only think the rookie as he has that pack forme the video game and as a kickstarter exclusive it would be a good add on

The_Xavious
12-13-2015, 04:34 PM
I think his level 2 ability is a pretty good stand in for it, to be honest.

Werechicken
12-13-2015, 06:59 PM
The comic has integrated a few things from the game and some other tech pieces.

Boson Dart

One hand - gun style neutrino wand

Using slime to close the portal per the game makes sense. Using proton streams to close a portal makes no sense, in movie, video game, or comic....unless of course, you cross the streams. :)

MattMurdock
12-17-2015, 07:05 PM
I did a little playing around with my idea and came up with a couple of tweeks.
6 slime before having to return to the car to refill isnt enough if you put out 3 per shot, and can perform upto 3 shots a turn, so the slime in your tank should "regenerate" slowly (like how the mood slime grew in GBII) - gaining 3 slime tokens at the beginning of your turn in your tank upto your maximum amount carryable.

Things I am still not sure about:
having to shoot 3 slime tokens vs you choose upto 3 - a single token feels a little too precise for a slimeblower (GBII style)
Max capacity of 6 tokens being enough (even if you get 3 back a turn)
Losing all slime tokens on the board/characters at the beginning of your next turn, vs removing 3 tokens of your choice (slime longevity). - leaving some could be too powerful though if someone elected to always leave the slime that was buffing another character.



Im hoping to do some more playtesting over a couple of days, I might even video it to share with you guys.

Werechicken
12-17-2015, 09:22 PM
Matt, maybe to refill, they could also take no actions that turn? Sort of mirroring the removal of slime tokens?

Crazy1van
12-30-2015, 05:56 PM
Maybe custom abilities for Slime Blower Ray, Egon, Peter, and Winston could be used, to reflect that the character in question is NOT using a proton pack and therefore can't use abilities that effect proton streams. This would also allow a variety of slime effects to be tested, as each GB would be different, just as they are now.

MattMurdock
12-30-2015, 06:16 PM
Yeah, if there was to be a GB2 expansion then you could have completely different character cards for the slime blowers, it might cause balance issues though if that was all that was available in an expansion, if the slime blower is designed as a support weapon as in the movies. Or we could just design only Winston and Ray with the Slime Blowers (as per the movie), leaving Peter and Egon as they are with the proton packs.

MattMurdock
01-04-2016, 01:22 PM
Im still working on this also, currently playtesting. To make it more of a control weapon I have made positively charged slime reduce ghosts movement, which seems to be very cool! Here are the mechanics sofar that I am working on. Where slime is mentioned below, it refers to the postively charged slime from the slimeblower.

Slimeblower rules (replaces standard proton roll)
Start with 6 positively charged slime tokens next to your character card.
You have line of sight of 2 squares.
You may 'shoot' by placing a slime token within your line of sight, and then placing upto 2 more tokens adjacent to that square (must still be within line of sight).
You cannot place more than one slime token in a square per action.
If the slime token occupies the same space as a ghost or ghost buster, it automatically hits and they are slimed, place a positively charged slime token on the character card or on the ghost's model. Then perform the ghosts 'When missed' movement instead of it's 'When hit' movement.
Slime cannot trap ghosts or close gates. Where a ghost or gate requires 2 or more streams to bust, each slime token assigned to it counts as a proton stream.
Ghosts will not cross squares that contain a number of slime tokens equal or greater than their ghost class. If a ghost does move through or onto an already slimed space it does not gain the slime.
Slimed ghosts reduce their last movement by 1 space for each slime token they possess.
Slimeblower characters may spend an action when adjacent to the Ecto 1 to refill their slimeblower.
Positively slimed characters are immune to control effects such as fear or sleep.

At the start of your next turn, remove all slime tokens from play and gain 3 slime tokens (to a maximum of 6).

MattMurdock
01-04-2016, 11:40 PM
So after some playtesting today we decided that generally it works quite well and provides a very different mechanic for experienced players, but due to not being able to trap ghosts you wouldnt want to take more than one in a team.

One change we need to make is to avoid double xp gaining, where a class 1 ghost or gate can be slimed, then busted by a character with a proton stream, with both characters getting xp from it. So we have changed to:
Slime cannot trap ghosts or close gates. Where a ghost or gate requires 2 or more streams to bust, each slime token assigned to it counts as a proton stream.

We played with both Ray and Winston alternating using the slimeblower across the first two slimer campaigns. We found initially that Ray leveled up extremely fast due to getting xp from the level 1 ghosts he slimed that others busted (hence the nerf to exclude them). Given he has a very strong alternate XP generator he didnt really need the extra. Winston was a bit closer, as his xp gain is much less and I would recommend him more as an end game slimer when his bonus movement for hitting can pay off to allow him to get close to other busters to free action their ghosts (since he wouldnt be able to catch them himself). Even so, we still didnt have any issues with getting ghstos to Winston to put back into the car once he unlocked his free LOS deposit (even with the reduced slimeblower LOS of 2 spaces).

We were particularly impressed with the reduction in movement as it changed a gruesome twosome into a single move towards a GB when you miss (as it cancelled the random), and likewise made boogaloos more managable. It wasnt as effective against Ghouls as they still moved erratically after sliming them, albeit only a single space.

We also found that with both Ray and Winston they rarely got to shoot twice, either from needing to perform their alternate action/s to deslime, or move and collect ghosts, or when they did shoot twice it often resulted in them getting slimed as the 2 space LOS meant they often got slimed themselves by the ghost. This means that at low levels a 3 slime token bank could be sufficient with a level 4 ability (if a character was going to be rewritten as a slimeblower version) to expand it to the full 6 slots as actions become more plentiful.

Crazy1van
01-05-2016, 10:00 PM
So you give whichever GB is using the Slime Blower the substitute Hit Roll but otherwise keep the abilities the same?

MattMurdock
01-05-2016, 11:44 PM
The slimeblower is an auto hit weapon, so no roll is required, hence it doesnt make sense for characters like Peter or Egon who have roll based abilities to use it, but is a great fit for Ray or Winston who's abilities say "When you hit a ghost".

Crazy1van
01-06-2016, 06:28 AM
Yeah, when I said "Substitute Hit Roll" I meant to type "substitute FOR Hit Roll", as I did follow your logic about not needing a Hit Roll with this weapon. Have to admit that I'd be more comfortable with making entirely new abilities for GBs using the Slime Thrower in place of a Proton Pack, especially since abilities based on Hitting a ghost won't be balanced anymore if that Ghostbuster ALWAYS hits the ghost.

MattMurdock
01-06-2016, 12:45 PM
Given that the abilities triggered were moving or removing a single slime, they didnt appear to have a massive unbalancing during the testing sofar, but it is something we are looking at.

Werechicken
01-06-2016, 01:03 PM
I think this would also work well if we involve a "possession" mechanic

Crazy1van
01-06-2016, 05:38 PM
Possession definitely needs to be a thing! Janosz was basically possessed, Ray was definitely possessed, Oscar was at risk, etc.

Not sure that anyone can even defend against being possessed; it seems to be an automatic thing, which makes it a good counterpart to slime-blowing Ghostbusters, game mechanics wise.