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LexLuthorJr
12-30-2015, 03:19 PM
Has anyone tried Watchmen yet? I was wondering if there were any suggestions on which set to use. I think the first time we play, we'll most like use the first set. It seems to me, however, that Forever Evil would be a great pick because of all the destroy.

kshock68
12-30-2015, 04:04 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Even though I've had the crossover pack for about a week now, I haven't been able to scrap up enough players to give it a go yet.

I figured we'd go with the base set first, since the VP tokens would have no use in the Watchmen set. I've also toyed with tailoring a custom deck to give it a more Watchmen-y feel.

StormKing
12-30-2015, 08:20 PM
I made a custom deck for mine that uses cards from nearly everything.

SpiritDetective
12-30-2015, 11:04 PM
Has anyone tried Watchmen yet? I was wondering if there were any suggestions on which set to use. I think the first time we play, we'll most like use the first set. It seems to me, however, that Forever Evil would be a great pick because of all the destroy.

I used the first set and I'm not sure I would recommend it again. I used Sally Juspeczyk and gained 20 cards. It seemed like there weren't enough cost 6+ cards in set 1.

StormKing
12-31-2015, 04:11 AM
I used the first set and I'm not sure I would recommend it again. I used Sally Juspeczyk and gained 20 cards. It seemed like there weren't enough cost 6+ cards in set 1.

It's 5+ to stop gaining, not 6+.

Carthain
12-31-2015, 07:15 AM
I'm actually of the opposite opinion - I think Forever Evil would be a bad selection because of all the destroy cards :)

You need (well, the Loyal players need) cards to contribute to the challenges. If you spend all your time destroying everything, you're not going to have as much left of a deck after trying to contribute.

We tried it with Teen Titans once - wasn't bad. A number of cards that were relatively useless (as points don't matter) except to donate to a challenge.

StormKing
12-31-2015, 03:50 PM
I'm actually of the opposite opinion - I think Forever Evil would be a bad selection because of all the destroy cards :)

You need (well, the Loyal players need) cards to contribute to the challenges. If you spend all your time destroying everything, you're not going to have as much left of a deck after trying to contribute.

We tried it with Teen Titans once - wasn't bad. A number of cards that were relatively useless (as points don't matter) except to donate to a challenge.

Every set has cards that are "useless" aside from challenges.

Kr36
01-01-2016, 06:41 PM
I made a custom deck for mine that uses cards from nearly everything.

Would you mind sharing the contents of your custom deck? Thank you!

StormKing
01-01-2016, 11:12 PM
Would you mind sharing the contents of your custom deck? Thank you!

Sure, it's still a work in progress, I've only played a few games with it but plan to constantly make changes (particularly when the next few expansions come out). There are a lot of single cards and the deck is 124 cards, so this will be a long list. I'll make a separate post for each card type.

Heroes:
2 cost
Bumblebee (Teen Titans) x1
Laurel Lance (Arrow) x1
Ravager (Teen Titans) x1
Vibe (Forever Evil) x1
Vicky Vale (Rivals 1) x1

3 cost:
Aqualad (Teen Titans) x1
Jericho (Teen Titans) x1
Liberty Belle (JSA) x1
Miss Martian (Teen Titans) x1
Plastic Man (Heroes Unite) x1
Raven (Heroes Unite) x1
Robin (Base Set) x1

4 cost
Dr. Mid-nite (JSA) x1
Hero of the Future (Heroes Unite) x1
Huntress (Rivals 1) x1
Oracle (Rivals 1) x1
Sally Juspeczyk (Watchmen) x1
Sonic Siren (Heroes Unite) x1
Stargirl (Forever Evil) x1

5 Cost

Cassie Sandsmark (Teen Titans) x1
Garfield Logan (Teen Titans) x1
John Constantine (Crisis 1) x1
Koriand'r (Teen Titans) x1
Power Girl (Forever Evil) x1

6 cost
Captain Atom (Crisis 1) x1
Conner Kent (Teen Titans) x1
Hollis Mason (Watchmen) x1

7 cost
Pandora (Forever Evil) x1

8 cost
Ganthet (Crisis 2) x1

StormKing
01-01-2016, 11:14 PM
Villains:

1 cost
Talon (Heroes Unite) x1

2 cost
Harley Quinn (Base Set) x1
Ocean Master (Heroes Unite) x1
The Riddler (Rivals 1) x1
Victor Zsasz (Rivals 1) x1

3 cost
Black Lantern Aquaman (Crisis 2) x2
Jervis Tetch (Heroes Unite) x1
Mr Zsasz (Heroes Unite) x2
Poison Ivy (Base Set) x1
Scythe (JSA) x1
The Penguin (Base Set) x1

4 cost
Bane (Base Set) x1
Black Lantern Green Arrow (Crisis 2) x1
Clayface (Base set) x1
Killer Frost (Crisis 1) x1
Lady Vic (Teen Titans) x1
Parasite (Heroes Unite) x1

5 cost
Black Lantern Wonder Woman (Crisis 2) x1
Huntress (Arrow) x1
Scarecrow (Base set) x2

6 cost
Black Lantern Corps (Heroes Unite) x1
Jinx (Teen Titans) x1
Rioters (Watchmen) x1

7 cost
Black Lantern Blue Beetle (Crisis 2) x1
Molloch the Mystic (Watchmen) x1

8 cost
Ultraman (Forever Evil) x1

StormKing
01-01-2016, 11:14 PM
Super Powers:

2 cost
Flight (Crisis 1) x1
Insanity (Forever Evil) x1
Shapeshift (Teen Titans) x1
Whirlwind (Heroes Unite) x1

3 cost
Force Field (Heroes Unite) x1
Molecular Vibration (Teen Titans) x1
Promise to a Friend (Arrow) x1
Super Speed (Base set) x1
X-Ray Vision (Base set) x2

4 cost
Canary Cry (Heroes Unite) x1
Crystal Shield (Crisis 2) x1
Energy Absorption (Teen Titans) x1
Geokinesis (Teen Titans) x2
Power Drain (Forever Evil) x1

5 cost
Azarath Metrion Zinthos (Teen Titans) x1
Demonic Influence (Teen Titans) x1
Girl Power (JSA) x1
Rage Blood (Crisis 2) x1
You Have Failed This City (Arrow) x1

6 cost
Mystic Bolts (JSA) x1
Possession (Crisis 2) x1
Reconstruction (Watchmen) x1
World's Greatest Detective (Rivals 1) x1

7 cost
Constructs of Fear (Forever Evil) x1
Duplication (Watchmen) x1

8 cost
Disintegration (Watchmen) x1

(Also kicks from various sets :P)

StormKing
01-01-2016, 11:15 PM
Equipment:

2 cost
Batmobile (Base set) x2
Pandora's Box (Forever Evil) x1

3 cost
Aquaman's Trident (Base set) x1
Detonator (Teen Titans) x2
Helmet of Fate (Heroes Unite) x1
Nth Metal (Base set) x1
Nth Metal Mace (Crisis 2) x2
Power Ring (Base set) x1

4 cost
Mallet (Forever Evil) x1
Nite Owl Mask (Watchmen) x1
Signature Trenchcoat (Crisis 1) x1
Skeets (Heroes Unite) x1
The Hourglass (JSA) x1

5 cost
Black Lantern Power Ring (Crisis 2) x1
Blue Lantern Power Ring (Heroes Unite) x1
Green Lantern Power Ring (Heroes Unite) x1
Magician's Corset (Crisis 1) x1
Orange Lantern Power Ring (Heroes Unite) x1
Red Lantern Power Ring (Heroes Unite) x1
Rorschach Mask (Watchmen) x1
Star Sapphire Power Ring (Heroes Unite) x1
White Lantern Power Ring (Crisis 2) x1
Yellow Lantern Power Ring (Heroes Unite) x1

6 cost
The Owlship (Watchmen) x1
T-Spheres (JSA) x1

7 cost
Mind Control Hat (Heroes Unite) x1
White Lantern Power Battery (Heroes Unite) x1

StormKing
01-01-2016, 11:15 PM
Locations:

Atlantis (Crisis 2)
Azarath (Teen Titans)
House of Mystery (Crisis 1)
Monument Point (JSA)
New Titans Tower (Teen Titans)
New York City (Watchmen)
Tamaran (Teen Titans)
Titans Memorial (Teen Titans)

aoineko
01-01-2016, 11:39 PM
Dedication

StormKing
01-01-2016, 11:47 PM
Dedication

Finished! XD

GuruGuru214
01-02-2016, 08:33 PM
Looks like someone loves his job. :D

Definitely going to have to try out a game with this deck.

Shadowzero
01-06-2016, 04:30 AM
very nice list. I did a lot of cutting for my main deck as well. Did not know disntegration was playable with the normal game going to have to add that one in

Kr36
01-09-2016, 09:40 PM
Finished! XD

Thank you!! This is impressive.

StormKing
01-10-2016, 02:10 AM
very nice list. I did a lot of cutting for my main deck as well. Did not know disntegration was playable with the normal game going to have to add that one in

It isn't. This is a Watchmen deck.

SpiritDetective
01-11-2016, 02:30 PM
It isn't. This is a Watchmen deck.

Does mixing in the Rivals cards cause problems?

Matt_Hyra
01-11-2016, 07:12 PM
Does mixing in the Rivals cards cause problems?

The Rivals cards in this Watchmen deck aren't Confrontation-based, so they work just fine.

Shadowzero
01-12-2016, 08:52 AM
Do you guys mix in cards from batman vs joker rivals that aren't confrontation-based to the regular game?

LRoq617
01-12-2016, 01:31 PM
Do you guys mix in cards from batman vs joker rivals that aren't confrontation-based to the regular game?

I have a deck consolidated with all sets, and I use anything from Rivals that doesn't contain the text "cost," "block," or "confrontation." Some of the cards are fantastic and well worth pursuing, i.e. World's Greatest Detective, Hugo Strange, Batarang. They've worked out pretty well so far.

GuruGuru214
01-12-2016, 05:04 PM
My group plays all our competitive games with one big box main deck, one Crossover, and one "mix-in", which is either a Crisis or the half or so cards from Rivals that are non-confrontation. We like the Rivals cards pretty well.

Shadowzero
01-13-2016, 04:02 AM
Yea our group is mixing it in as well. world's greatest detective is our group favorite from the rival set

SpiritDetective
01-13-2016, 02:54 PM
In terms of competitive play, I've loved mixing in Watchmen with Forever Evil. Forever Evil already has a lot of card destruction so adding in the card destruction from Watchmen is good times.

Sally Juspecyzk and Pandora's Box are just whittle the deck down.

GuruGuru214
01-16-2016, 05:55 AM
Played two games of Watchmen tonight. One with the base set, one with StormKing's custom build. Had the bad luck to end up with the same Mastermind in both games, and we won the first and lost the second. Overall, I really enjoyed it. It was a great shake-up to the Cerberus formula. I did have a couple issues with the way it ran, but I'll have to try a few more games with other Masterminds before I know for sure what I think of it.

The biggest issue I really had is that the Mastermind was never able to meet the card requirements to launch the Mastermind Plot, so while we knew who it was for probably at least half of each game, we were never able to play attacks against her without hitting the other loyal players, since nobody was technically revealed.

Aside from that, both games were really close. We beat the first game with a full Line-Up and no cards in the main deck, and we were scrambling to get the last two cards for the last Challenge when we lost the second game. And while I would normally call close games a good thing, this was without the Mastermind Plot going into play. If it had gone into play, we wouldn't have stood a chance. However, I'm not really sure if that reflects more on game balance or on poor strategy/bad luck on the part of the loyal players in our group, though I'm kind of leaning toward the latter. I can definitely say that we did have some bad luck in that the Mastermind got The Owlship very early in the second game, and I can think of a few places where our strategy could have used some work. I can definitely see where this is a game that you have to try a few times to really figure out how to run an effective strategy.

Our group was a bit divided on what to think of StormKing's custom build, though I think that may have been because the loyal side was losing and the Mastermind was keeping pretty quiet. I personally liked it quite a bit, though there were a couple cards that would've wrecked the whole game if the Mastermind had gotten them. We did have some good early game suspicion flying around. I was actually highly suspected until I threw Pandora at the level 1 Challenge. Apparently I was accidentally buying all the right cards for the Villainous Machinations card.

But yeah, from the loyal side, I really enjoyed the inclusion of cards like the Power Rings (especially the White and Black, though I'm curious why the Indigo Tribe Power Ring was the only one not included), the Signature Trenchcoat, and Ganthet, and the selection of Locations was great. And I could definitely see how it would be a pretty great deck build for the Mastermind. For the most part, I was pretty happy with it. And I really enjoyed the game overall. I'm really looking forward to giving it several more tries.

Matt_Hyra
01-16-2016, 12:47 PM
The biggest issue I really had is that the Mastermind was never able to meet the card requirements to launch the Mastermind Plot, so while we knew who it was for probably at least half of each game, we were never able to play attacks against her without hitting the other loyal players, since nobody was technically revealed.

Thanks for the write up! Perhaps it would be a good idea to throw in 4-5 single target Attack cards, so you can mess with the suspected Mastermind.

GuruGuru214
01-16-2016, 02:53 PM
There were at least a couple in there. I really liked the inclusion of Geokinesis, though I only got the chance to use it against her once and she defended. Kind of still worked out in a way, though, since her defense was Stargirl.

StormKing
01-16-2016, 09:32 PM
Played two games of Watchmen tonight. One with the base set, one with StormKing's custom build. Had the bad luck to end up with the same Mastermind in both games, and we won the first and lost the second. Overall, I really enjoyed it. It was a great shake-up to the Cerberus formula. I did have a couple issues with the way it ran, but I'll have to try a few more games with other Masterminds before I know for sure what I think of it.

The biggest issue I really had is that the Mastermind was never able to meet the card requirements to launch the Mastermind Plot, so while we knew who it was for probably at least half of each game, we were never able to play attacks against her without hitting the other loyal players, since nobody was technically revealed.

Aside from that, both games were really close. We beat the first game with a full Line-Up and no cards in the main deck, and we were scrambling to get the last two cards for the last Challenge when we lost the second game. And while I would normally call close games a good thing, this was without the Mastermind Plot going into play. If it had gone into play, we wouldn't have stood a chance. However, I'm not really sure if that reflects more on game balance or on poor strategy/bad luck on the part of the loyal players in our group, though I'm kind of leaning toward the latter. I can definitely say that we did have some bad luck in that the Mastermind got The Owlship very early in the second game, and I can think of a few places where our strategy could have used some work. I can definitely see where this is a game that you have to try a few times to really figure out how to run an effective strategy.

Our group was a bit divided on what to think of StormKing's custom build, though I think that may have been because the loyal side was losing and the Mastermind was keeping pretty quiet. I personally liked it quite a bit, though there were a couple cards that would've wrecked the whole game if the Mastermind had gotten them. We did have some good early game suspicion flying around. I was actually highly suspected until I threw Pandora at the level 1 Challenge. Apparently I was accidentally buying all the right cards for the Villainous Machinations card.

But yeah, from the loyal side, I really enjoyed the inclusion of cards like the Power Rings (especially the White and Black, though I'm curious why the Indigo Tribe Power Ring was the only one not included), the Signature Trenchcoat, and Ganthet, and the selection of Locations was great. And I could definitely see how it would be a pretty great deck build for the Mastermind. For the most part, I was pretty happy with it. And I really enjoyed the game overall. I'm really looking forward to giving it several more tries.

I took out Indigo Power Ring because it's the least interesting of the cards and can make the Mastermind Plot a little too easy with the right cards. I could've sworn I checked the villainous machinations to make sure the Mastermind had a lot of chances to pull it off, though, it could've been just that your group was just shutting them out from unleashing it which does happen in games. I've played the set a lot and have had plenty of games where the plot doesn't go off but even more where it does.

Something to keep in mind as loyal players is that if you focus just on shutting out the Mastermind and not on beating the challenges at all, the Mastermind doesn't even need to enact their plan because you've already beaten yourselves.

Thanks for playing my list, though. Hopefully you don't give up on it, I've found it to work really well, personally.

StormKing
01-16-2016, 09:33 PM
There were at least a couple in there. I really liked the inclusion of Geokinesis, though I only got the chance to use it against her once and she defended. Kind of still worked out in a way, though, since her defense was Stargirl.

Also, Geokinesis is my favorite Super Power in all the sets. :)

GuruGuru214
01-17-2016, 12:40 AM
I could've sworn I checked the villainous machinations to make sure the Mastermind had a lot of chances to pull it off, though, it could've been just that your group was just shutting them out from unleashing it which does happen in games. I've played the set a lot and have had plenty of games where the plot doesn't go off but even more where it does.

It's entirely possible. Like I said, I was apparently accidentally buying all the right cards for the Machinations card early in the game, and my turn came right before the Mastermind's. Also, the Mastermind was by far the least experienced DC player at the table. She had only played two or so games before that night and had never seen any of the cards from Forever Evil, Teen Titans, Crisis 1, JSA, Arrow, or Rivals.


Something to keep in mind as loyal players is that if you focus just on shutting out the Mastermind and not on beating the challenges at all, the Mastermind doesn't even need to enact their plan because you've already beaten yourselves.

Yeah, that's absolutely something that I gathered. There's definitely a balance you have to strike. In that second game, I sort of caused us problems by trying to build up draw cards and power generation in the early game before starting to contribute to the Challenge (though that's how I was able to snag Pandora and contribute her), while another loyal player contributed entirely too much in the early game and didn't have much of a deck left to support him in the late game.

In any case, I think we took entirely too long to beat the level 1 Challenge in both games (we pulled Keane Act for the first game and Rioting for the second), though I will say that I felt that the level 1 Challenge ongoing effects were the hardest to work around. But maybe it just felt that way because we hadn't built up our decks yet.


Thanks for playing my list, though. Hopefully you don't give up on it, I've found it to work really well, personally.

Thanks for posting it! I really enjoyed it. I'm hoping I can bring the others around and get them to give it another shot, because it was really a great combination of cards for that play mode.

It might help my case that I made a rearranged list of the cards (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VcH9_WG52cfkiJVowc9r-3a3nyzEivbl88OnhMq3qzI/edit?usp=sharing) for next time. I totally get why you have it sorted the way you do. Makes much more sense in terms of balancing the deck make-up. But when it came time to put the deck together, it was sort of hard for more than two of us to work on it and took quite a while because we kept having to bounce between decks looking for cards. I figure that with this list, everyone can take a page and two or three decks and hunt down all the cards faster that way.


Also, Geokinesis is my favorite Super Power in all the sets. :)

It's super handy. Much more utility than similar cards, and a great value for a 4 cost.

Now you've got me curious. Do you have a favorite Hero, Villain, Equipment, and Location?

Shadowzero
01-18-2016, 04:39 PM
Now you've got me curious. Do you have a favorite Hero, Villain, Equipment, and Location?

What about you guru what are your favorites of each type :) ?

StormKing
01-19-2016, 11:12 PM
Oh jeez I didn't notice your question!

Hero: Stargirl (Forever Evil)
Villain: Black Lantern Green Lantern (Crisis 2)
Equipment: Batmobile (DC1)
Location: Azarath (Teen Titans)

Some more random info:
Favorite Oversized Heroes to play as: Constantine, Kyle Rayner, Red Lantern Supergirl, Ozymandias and some you haven't seen that may or may not ever see the light of day.
Favorite Super-Villain STACK is the one I designed in Teen Titans
Honorable mentions for 2nd Favorite Hero and Location: Miss Martian and Titans Memorial.

GuruGuru214
01-20-2016, 03:58 AM
All excellent choices. I've never been a big fan of Constantine, but I'm also not sure that I've really played him with the right mindset/strategy. Red Lantern Supergirl is a long time favorite of mine, and Ozymandias is definitely a new favorite.

aoineko
01-20-2016, 11:00 AM
Villain: Black Lantern Green Lantern (Crisis 2)


Black Lantern Green Arrow?

gerrymul
01-20-2016, 02:07 PM
BL GA is a huge jerk. It is absolutely the card that everyone hate takes as soon as it appears in the lineup.

I personally love the following:
Equipment: Power Armor (like Blue Beetle on steroids)
Super Power: Girl Power
Location: Monument Point (although New York City from Watchmen might supersede that one)
Hero: Liberty Belle
Villain: Despero
Super Villain: Hades Impossible Mode

Oversize Hero: Indigo 1 and Cyborg are both excellent. Having 2 options to trigger powers is awesome. Same goes for Wildcat. A lot of others are heavily dependent on what other Heroes are in the game and what set you are using.

StormKing
01-20-2016, 07:50 PM
Haha Arrow yeah.

andymo24
02-16-2016, 08:07 AM
We played three games with three players each last night, and used Heroes Unite every time. The Loyals might have had a chance at the first one if we'd been more experienced, but it wasn't that close. The Mastermind absolutely destroyed the Loyals in the next two games. Would not recommend a 3-player Heroes Unite Watchmen game. I am eager to try other main deck combos, though.

gerrymul
02-16-2016, 10:23 AM
We've played with 1 Crisis added to one of the main sets and found it swings a little too far to the Loyals. I'm thinking if we use both level 1 Challenges next tie it should balance out nicely. I've played as the Mastermind about half the times we've played Watchmen and always found it challenging to both acquire and to trigger the cards required to reveal. But even then, I've managed to whittle away at the main deck so that we are within 1 - 2 turns of me winning with the Crisis set mixed in.

SpiritDetective
02-18-2016, 06:36 PM
How is Kid Flash Oversized in Watchmen? I'm curious how the Secret Mastermind would use him.

StormKing
02-19-2016, 12:13 AM
How is Kid Flash Oversized in Watchmen? I'm curious how the Secret Mastermind would use him.

He'd be kinda overpowered in Watchmen if he were the Mastermind. I don't let people use him for that.

SpiritDetective
02-19-2016, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the write up! Perhaps it would be a good idea to throw in 4-5 single target Attack cards, so you can mess with the suspected Mastermind.

What single target Attack cards would you suggest?


He'd be kinda overpowered in Watchmen if he were the Mastermind. I don't let people use him for that.

Is it better to play your custom build with the Watchmen Oversized or should I open it up to the Oversized from other sets?

StormKing
02-19-2016, 12:27 PM
What single target Attack cards would you suggest?



Is it better to play your custom build with the Watchmen Oversized or should I open it up to the Oversized from other sets?

I use all except Crisis and Kid Flash. I just have the full stack available and everyone can pick their favorite character (when we play Watchmen). I've never played Watchmen with Ban/Pick method but imagine it could be interesting with Watchmen.

SpiritDetective
03-07-2016, 12:39 PM
Are there any new main deck cards from Crisis 3 that you'd like to add to your custom Watchmen deck?

StormKing
03-11-2016, 08:09 PM
I'll have to think about it but I would say so (I haven't messed with the deck lately because of being busy atm). I'll get back to you.