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Saeijou
01-08-2016, 11:47 AM
for those who haven't seen:

https://www.hextcg.com/cleric-class/?=TW

Necroa
01-08-2016, 11:53 AM
You definitely aren't the only one who is disappointed. I mean, it's cool and stuff, but I guess I should learn not to expect much anymore. At this point, I'm more excited for B & S launch than HEX PvE.

funktion
01-08-2016, 11:55 AM
So I'm asking in all seriousness, what was it that you were waiting for then? Cause I think this is pretty cool.

ryuukan
01-08-2016, 11:58 AM
I was waiting for the thing they talked about but can't show us yet

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 11:58 AM
Um......... Does it say Hex Update: Cleric? No.

poizonous
01-08-2016, 12:00 PM
My problem with the update is that once again they had "Technical Difficulties". I mean can one week go by without a difficulty? I get it, what they are doing isnt easy but I feel like they havent had a smooth week is months (Years?)

Edit: Announcing an announcement and then failing to produce said announcement is just terrible for business

Saeijou
01-08-2016, 12:02 PM
So I'm asking in all seriousness, what was it that you were waiting for then? Cause I think this is pretty cool.

a release date.
don't get me wrong, it is pretty cool!

but between
"couldn’t finish a few pieces of content that we had originally planned to announce"
and
"we are only waiting on the art"

is a huge difference!

and cory said this:
"This is why we had to make the hard decision to move the launch to the very beginning of 2016. I am sorry for the delay, but it should be a short wait."

maybe i have a different understanding of "very beginning" and "short"... but the last sentence is "can’t wait to show you more stuff in the coming weeks!", which makes me wonder, if there will be a release in january!

i don't complain, that they don't throw it at us unfinished... i complain of the promises they made that aren't realistic!

Svenn
01-08-2016, 12:04 PM
My problem with the update is that once again they had "Technical Difficulties". I mean can one week go by without a difficulty? I get it, what they are doing isnt easy but I feel like they havent had a smooth week is months (Years?)

Edit: Announcing an announcement and then failing to produce said announcement is just terrible for business

This. Don't announce announcements. If it's not what people are expecting, they are upset (even if the thing we get is something they would otherwise be excited over). If you have to delay the announcement, like in this case, people are upset. If you do manage to deliver exactly what people wanted to hear... they'll be satisfied rather than ecstatic. It's a lose-lose(-lose).

Also, any announcement other than "Here's the PvE launch date" is going to be met with anger and frustration at this point (especially when it's mentioned ahead of time like this).

nicosharp
01-08-2016, 12:05 PM
pretty cool to begin to see a glimpse into what PvE entails. More would be nice, and a date, but this is the most we have seen ever, imo. And what is shared looks great.

catacasa
01-08-2016, 12:06 PM
This. Don't announce announcements. If it's not what people are expecting, they are upset (even if the thing we get is something they would otherwise be excited over). If you have to delay the announcement, like in this case, people are upset. If you do manage to deliver exactly what people wanted to hear... they'll be satisfied rather than ecstatic. It's a lose-lose(-lose).

Also, any announcement other than "Here's the PvE launch date" is going to be met with anger and frustration at this point (especially when it's mentioned ahead of time like this).

Exactly.

Khazrakh
01-08-2016, 12:09 PM
i don't complain, that they don't throw it at us unfinished... i complain of the promises they made that aren't realistic!

That's the problem really. I'm very hyped and I loved the update.
The problem is, everything pointed towards something bigger - Cory saying very beginning of 2016, announcing a huge announcement for today and so on. The constant announcing/teasing and failing to deliver is just making everything a lot harder for HXE than it needs to be really.

Anyway I'm not going to complain, as I said I'm really looking forward to PVE and I can wait that little longer.

ryuukan
01-08-2016, 12:09 PM
If you have to delay the announcement, like in this case, people are upset.

I really want to read through this update but all I can see are pages of "Ben Stoll is hiding my goodies"

IronPheasant
01-08-2016, 12:10 PM
"This is why we had to make the hard decision to move the launch to the very beginning of 2016. I am sorry for the delay, but it should be a short wait."

maybe i have a different understanding of "very beginning" and "short"...

I took it to mean "May 2016" like I did when he originally said "trying for before the end of 2015."

Maybe I was being optimistic and should have assumed Dec 2016. Aye aye aye..

Necroa
01-08-2016, 12:14 PM
Should probably wait until the technical difficulties are fixed before posting an announcement. Posting the announcement to announce technical difficulties is just, really stupid. Like I said though, I think it's cool and stuff, but my HEX brothers and sisters just want PvE man and so do I...

poizonous
01-08-2016, 12:19 PM
I mostly feel bad for Phenteo today. Community manager wakes up to find out the announcement was delayed and now his day is filled by having to deal with angry forum people

Mejis
01-08-2016, 12:21 PM
OK, first up, the skill tree and info is amazing. I love the design ideas and it honestly creates insane hype levels for me.

As for whether we get all race/class combinations, I assumed from the screenshot that it was like WoW etc where certain classes can't come from certain races.
I'm cool with that. But if it's that some aren't ready/implemented yet then that's great we'll get them but disappointing they aren't ready yet because that means delays when Cory said content was finished save for some bugs.

Now, I'm not one to complain much/ever, but I am a little disappointed. Cory's message stressed the *very* beginning of 2016, which to me the italics implies first few weeks of Jan. Very, no italics, would imply Jan ish. If he said "Beginning" only then that would imply Jan/Feb/possibly March.
The end of this update, however, implies we'll be seeing update spoilers for many more weeks, meaning a Feb release at the earliest.
That's, well, disappointing given the wording (and yes, I accept it's just my interpretation), but earlier this week we were informed of a special announcement. It's not hard to forsee that the community here would take that to mean the release date announcement. That's the logical thought process given the current vibes and hype. So, for it to not be that and for the announcement to be delayed is, well, again disappointing.

That's just my thoughts.
I will now go back to the article and read it for what it is having switched off all my hope cells ;)
Thanks Ben for what looks like an awesome lot of fun and interesting mechanics for the Cleric. I love the moving up concept of cards within a deck.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 12:22 PM
And no one is paying any attention that this has no bearing on the announcement today...

plaguedealer
01-08-2016, 12:26 PM
And no one is paying any attention that this has no bearing on the announcement today...

I would not get peoples hopes up that the update will contain a release date. The pve info we got really does look good and I am excited for pve. It sucks we have to wait awhile, but such is life.

incitfulmonk21
01-08-2016, 12:28 PM
And no one is paying any attention that this has no bearing on the announcement today...

Because the announcement will be a recap and hey look at the cool dwarf cleric. It is what they have always done. Count on CZE to treat players well, not make deadlines, and always have a technical difficulty.

Necroa
01-08-2016, 12:29 PM
4105

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 12:30 PM
I would not get peoples hopes up that the update will contain a release date. The pve info we got really does look good and I am excited for pve. It sucks we have to wait awhile, but such is life.

I'm not I'm just saying as it does not specifically have "Hex Update:" before Cleric Talent Tree then this is more an extra 'free' update and does not count for Friday update.

Metronomy
01-08-2016, 12:32 PM
thing is we have bens comment at the beginning...seems like the special announcement is not going to come today

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 12:36 PM
It's possible that comment wasn't a today thing just the class tree was.

plaguedealer
01-08-2016, 12:38 PM
It's possible that comment wasn't a today thing just the class tree was.

I also read it like that honestly, it seems like they wanted to preview more content but couldnt because of technical difficulties. If that is the case, they have a ways to go before they can announce a release date.

Metronomy
01-08-2016, 12:40 PM
i gues it is possible that he was referring to not being able to show more previews and that the special announcement has nothing to do with it...idk

plaguedealer
01-08-2016, 12:42 PM
i gues it is possible that he was referring to not being able to show more previews and that the special announcement has nothing to do with it...idk

If they cant announce something because of technical difficulties, they would be crazy to give a release date any time soon.

katkillad
01-08-2016, 12:42 PM
"Very beginning of 2016" could be as late as March in the video game world. People need to stop reading in between the lines, even when we get a date expect MORE DELAYS.

Quantius
01-08-2016, 12:46 PM
This is cool, I like it. I'm very afraid of how powerful the PvE bosses will be considering how OP those talents can be. Can't wait, come on PvE launchhhhhhhh

Necroa
01-08-2016, 12:47 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/x1lir.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/x1lir)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

poizonous
01-08-2016, 12:52 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/x1lir.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/x1lir)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

This made me laugh.... Like A LOT

Jormungandr
01-08-2016, 12:55 PM
I have to admit I was a little disappointed as well. Even though I knew there was a very small chance we'd get anything concrete about a PvE release date.

On the bright side, the cleric class looks pretty great to me. And getting some specifics about #'s of race specific, & class/race specific talents is cool. I like what I've seen so far. Can't wait to be able to create some characters and experience the campaign.

I'm a little bit concerned about the fact that they mention :


Each class has its own individual talent tree, the first third of which will be unlocked at Campaign Launch. As you level, you’ll earn talent points that can be spent unlocking these talents.

I'm not sure if this is just a confusing way to say that you have to spend talents as you level up to unlock the second 2/3rds of your talent tree or if the second 2/3rds of your tree won't be available at all until later patch(es). Honestly though, even if it's the latter, I'm still hyped about PvE coming soon(ish).

Metronomy
01-08-2016, 12:58 PM
shaqqattaq just wrote that we wont see a release date announcement today...and to my understanding that article should have had the special announcement but it got delayed..

Yoss
01-08-2016, 01:04 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/x1lir.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/x1lir)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

Nicely done! It's almost certainly NOT how it's going in real life, but the comic is quite funny anyway. :)

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 01:06 PM
Oh boy.

katkillad
01-08-2016, 01:10 PM
shaqqattaq just wrote that we wont see a release date announcement today...and to my understanding that article should have had the special announcement but it got delayed..

I can't think of anything more "special" at this point than a release date, maybe they were planning to let people bug hunt on test servers.

Metronomy
01-08-2016, 01:13 PM
i gues..maybe..there is another special announcement incoming....i dont think so though

Svenn
01-08-2016, 01:15 PM
i gues..maybe..there is another special announcement incoming....i dont think so though


Quick note to the community. We ran into some technical hurdles recently and couldn’t finish a few pieces of content that we had originally planned to announce. But, we hope the article about the new Cleric class can help show a little more into the world of PvE on Entrath!”

Special announcement was delayed. It's right there in the article.

YoureNoDaisy
01-08-2016, 01:19 PM
OK, first up, the skill tree and info is amazing. I love the design ideas and it honestly creates insane hype levels for me.

As for whether we get all race/class combinations, I assumed from the screenshot that it was like WoW etc where certain classes can't come from certain races.
I'm cool with that. But if it's that some aren't ready/implemented yet then that's great we'll get them but disappointing they aren't ready yet because that means delays when Cory said content was finished save for some bugs.

Now, I'm not one to complain much/ever, but I am a little disappointed. Cory's message stressed the *very* beginning of 2016, which to me the italics implies first few weeks of Jan. Very, no italics, would imply Jan ish. If he said "Beginning" only then that would imply Jan/Feb/possibly March.
The end of this update, however, implies we'll be seeing update spoilers for many more weeks, meaning a Feb release at the earliest.
That's, well, disappointing given the wording (and yes, I accept it's just my interpretation), but earlier this week we were informed of a special announcement. It's not hard to forsee that the community here would take that to mean the release date announcement. That's the logical thought process given the current vibes and hype. So, for it to not be that and for the announcement to be delayed is, well, again disappointing.

That's just my thoughts.
I will now go back to the article and read it for what it is having switched off all my hope cells ;)
Thanks Ben for what looks like an awesome lot of fun and interesting mechanics for the Cleric. I love the moving up concept of cards within a deck.

Beginning meaning Feb 8.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 01:19 PM
Still there is another update today

Metronomy
01-08-2016, 01:23 PM
Special announcement was delayed. It's right there in the article.

thats what i thought and still think...the point is that it is not the "update" article

Silvanos
01-08-2016, 01:24 PM
I thought that was a fun to read article, and it's a shame its reception is going to be tarnished for people expecting PVE launch instead. If you assume "very beginning" of 2016 means the first week, you are really setting yourself up for disappointment.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 01:25 PM
It doesn't exactly say the special is delayed hell special meaning release date is only our assumption

Renquist
01-08-2016, 01:41 PM
Beginning meaning Feb 8.

lol...this is how rumors are started.

Aradon
01-08-2016, 01:44 PM
thats what i thought and still think...the point is that it is not the "update" article

Sure, but when has the update article recently carried new information. It's used these days as a feed update for people who don't visit this website, because it gets emailed out to the newsletter for KS backers and people who signed up. Shaq said in the News subforum that if they had a date to announce, they would have led with it.

ThomasHunter
01-08-2016, 01:51 PM
I was a bit bummed with the words "weeks" for previews happening. Sadness. I can only assume that PVE is still "weeks" away then.

Still, this article was pretty sweet on its own!

nicosharp
01-08-2016, 01:55 PM
I'm not sure if this is just a confusing way to say that you have to spend talents as you level up to unlock the second 2/3rds of your talent tree or if the second 2/3rds of your tree won't be available at all until later patch(es). Honestly though, even if it's the latter, I'm still hyped about PvE coming soon(ish).
It could also mean that only 1/3rd of the classes have talent trees that will launch with the campaign.

knightofeffect
01-08-2016, 01:59 PM
Idk guys, when I read Corey's EoY article, I read it while visualizing Corey actually saying it in a video... When he said *very* beginning, it totally made sense to me what he meant. Basically, its perpetually imminent dependent on the difficultly of the last few technical blockers.

Its like the can see over the last couple hills, but those last couple could end up being a real SOB.

That being said, I was a bit perplexed that not all the class tree tiers will be fully available at launch when Corey called it "feature complete". I guess that was just a feature they decided was too complex to have fully implemented at launch? Oh well.

Rycajo
01-08-2016, 02:01 PM
I was a bit bummed with the words "weeks" for previews happening. Sadness. I can only assume that PVE is still "weeks" away then.

Still, this article was pretty sweet on its own!


We won't be announcing a date today. If we had a date to announce, we certainly would've led with it.



I don't recommend reading into this to try to extract some idea of what the expected release date will be. I understand the desire for a date and trying to fill that desire with whatever information may be found, but the answer isn't in the above quote.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=47029&page=6&p=543801&viewfull=1#post543801

I'm not sure if that makes you feel any better or not, but it is worth knowing we are not supposed to read anything into the "coming weeks" verbiage.

nicosharp
01-08-2016, 02:01 PM
I've gotta say, when some MMOs - like Wildstar/etc. took 6+ years to develop and launch, the PvE after-thought is coming along quite quickly.

Aradon
01-08-2016, 02:05 PM
I've gotta say, when some MMOs - like Wildstar/etc. took 6+ years to develop and launch, the PvE after-thought is coming along quite quickly.

I'm confused by you calling PvE an afterthought. It always seemed to be first and foremost in the purpose and intent of CZE's design. It was originally marketed as an MMOTCG, which would be pretty meaningless if it didn't have the PvE elements. It'd just be an online TCG at that point. The whole concept of it was to have dungeons, raids, equipment, etc.

nicosharp
01-08-2016, 02:08 PM
I'm confused by you calling PvE an afterthought. It always seemed to be first and foremost in the purpose and intent of CZE's design. It was originally marketed as an MMOTCG, which would be pretty meaningless if it didn't have the PvE elements. It'd just be an online TCG at that point. The whole concept of it was to have dungeons, raids, equipment, etc.
More-so speaking to the fact that it has been mentioned it was completely redesigned/scrapped at some point, and this was several months after the KS campaign ended. Several, several. Also folks, like Ben, that was leading the RnD team for PvP got pulled over to make PvE a reality.

Read into that however you want to. It was coated in a bit of sarcasm as well.

funktion
01-08-2016, 02:14 PM
...
snip
...
i don't complain, that they don't throw it at us unfinished... i complain of the promises they made that aren't realistic!

Okay, so you wanted a release date announced this week? I'm still not sure SPECIFICALLY what you expected, because I felt like Hex staff were all being pretty vague with what they've been saying this week. I never saw anything explicitly saying what would be announced this week, but it is entirely possible I missed it.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 02:16 PM
Funk has a point by no means in any shape way form or hinting was 'special announcement' release date.

Svenn
01-08-2016, 02:20 PM
Okay, so you wanted a release date announced this week? I'm still not sure SPECIFICALLY what you expected, because I felt like Hex staff were all being pretty vague with what they've been saying this week. I never saw anything explicitly saying what would be announced this week, but it is entirely possible I missed it.

"PvE is imminent in very early 2016."
"We have a special announcement on Friday!"

Anything other than "Here's the PvE release date" is just setting everyone up for disappointment. If it's not the PvE release date and they just announced it without announcing the announcement, that would be fine... but you don't hype an announcement when there is one thing on everyone's minds unless it's what people have been frothing at the map over. That's a major blunder.

funktion
01-08-2016, 02:21 PM
That said I totally understand and even share the frustration with announcing announcements. It can be done in a way that doesn't make people feel let down and keeps the hype going strong... but I don't feel like it is being done in that way. The whole announcing announcements thing just leads people to be let down in some way. I get that the Hex staff is extremely excited to share stuff with the public that they've been working on internally for such a long time but yeah...

Raith
01-08-2016, 02:34 PM
I liked the new info since it sounds cool. Sure it's not a release date, but I learned a long time ago to not get over-hyped about the timing of upcoming Hex content.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 02:39 PM
If they don't release it this month fine but I hope they spoil all six classes. If they spoil only 6 races due to six classes three of those will be one of my fave races.

Koz
01-08-2016, 02:45 PM
If they don't release it this month fine but I hope they spoil all six classes. If they spoil only 6 races due to six classes three of those will be one of my fave races.

There may not BE six classes to spoil yet. We may only get the three at launch.

frychikn
01-08-2016, 02:46 PM
i hope they dont spoil all the classes just because i want to just dive in and learn at the same time. sadly, if they release all the classes a part of me will study them and try to min/max in some way and then i'll go to the forums and join all the pve class discussions and theorycrafting

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 02:47 PM
There may not BE six classes to spoil yet. We may only get the three at launch.

God I hope not there will be literally nothing for me to do....

fido_one
01-08-2016, 02:51 PM
I'm not sure if this is just a confusing way to say that you have to spend talents as you level up to unlock the second 2/3rds of your talent tree or if the second 2/3rds of your tree won't be available at all until later patch(es).

As I mentioned in another thread, I think this was just bad wording. If you look at the Warrior skill tree, you'll notice that the first 1/3 is open to you when you create your character, and the other 2/3rds (other tiers) open up as you level. Ben's comments are in line with your point but I think more in line with what their intended design - my guess is the full trees will be present at PvE launch.

fido_one
01-08-2016, 02:53 PM
Read into that however you want to. It was coated in a bit of sarcasm as well.

Which is why I always love your posts, even the ones I disagree with.

katkillad
01-08-2016, 02:54 PM
There may not BE six classes to spoil yet. We may only get the three at launch.

I wouldn't consider missing half the classes at launch to be "feature complete".

Evilgm
01-08-2016, 02:58 PM
Okay, so you wanted a release date announced this week? I'm still not sure SPECIFICALLY what you expected, because I felt like Hex staff were all being pretty vague with what they've been saying this week. I never saw anything explicitly saying what would be announced this week, but it is entirely possible I missed it.

That's a nonsense argument, because if you genuinely believed that they had no intention of announcing the release date today you are in a very definite minority, and there's a vocal majority that made their belief quite clear. The argument that HexEnt never promised anything and thus don't need to comment on the lack of a date doesn't hold water when the majority of their active community has said quite clearly they would like some information. Whatever may have been promised, the promise generated an expectation that should not be ignored.

I'm personally not surprised we won't be getting it immediately, and I've no idea when we'll be getting it, and I'm not annoyed about that- I'm well aware that massive projects can hit stumbling blocks. What I would appreciate, as a fan and as a consumer, is someone from HexEnt actually addressing the issue with more than a line or two stuck at the top of another article. It doesn't have to include a date, but something as simple as "it's definitely not going to be for the next few weeks" would mean a lot.

Svenn
01-08-2016, 03:01 PM
I wouldn't consider missing half the classes at launch to be "feature complete".

"Feature" would be "class/race system". Six classes is content for that feature. "Feature complete" means the core mechanics are working... not that all the content is necessarily there.

Koz
01-08-2016, 03:03 PM
I wouldn't consider missing half the classes at launch to be "feature complete".

Maybe what they meant was "intended feature complete". As in, all planned features for the initial launch are complete, with the rest of the features to come later. I mean, do we really think that every feature they ever intend to include in PvE is going to be ready for the initial launch? Crafting almost certainly won't be in this patch, so that alone shows that PvE won't be 100% feature complete at launch. I don't even think we're getting Mercs in the initial patch, so no, I don't think "feature complete" means what it sounds like.

Jormungandr
01-08-2016, 03:16 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, I think this was just bad wording. If you look at the Warrior skill tree, you'll notice that the first 1/3 is open to you when you create your character, and the other 2/3rds (other tiers) open up as you level. Ben's comments are in line with your point but I think more in line with what their intended design - my guess is the full trees will be present at PvE launch.

I think (hope?) you're right. The fact that tiers unlock as you level could explain their phrasing. "Campaign Launch" could easily mean the launch of a new campaign after character creation rather than the PvE launch patch which was how I was reading it.

Koz
01-08-2016, 03:19 PM
I think (hope?) you're right. The fact that tiers unlock as you level could explain their phrasing. "Campaign Launch" could easily mean the launch of a new campaign after character creation rather than the PvE launch patch which was how I was reading it.

That's how I read it too, but I think fido_one is right. It makes more sense to interpret it that way

Mokog
01-08-2016, 03:20 PM
I want some rainbows and unicorns. I hope the kick starter update includes 1 or both of those today. :-) Maybe some Necrotic spoilers or other woodland creature features.

Svenn
01-08-2016, 03:22 PM
That's how I read it too, but I think fido_one is right. It makes more sense to interpret that way

A clarification from HexEnt so as to curb expectations right now would be good...

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 03:23 PM
Everyone is bitching hard at Hex seesh...

Raith
01-08-2016, 03:26 PM
In regards to only 1/3 of the tree being available at launch, it reads sort of like the description of the warrior tree from August. However, the cleric description is missing the comment about unlocking more talents at certain levels. I guess it's possible that they only put out 1/3 of the talents at launch, but it seems more likely they will unlock with leveling.

From Ben (regarding the warrior talent tree):

"The top two rows of your talent tree will be immediately visible and accessible. You’ll start with your Charge Power, and you can always spend a talent point on any talent in your top row to select that talent. From there, you can only select talents if they are:
Adjacent to another talent you’ve already selected.
Connected to that talent with a pathway.
Carving your own journey through your talent tree is a highly customizable experience; we’ve strived and are still striving to make sure the talents are balanced, with the exception of your capstones which are very powerful.
Like I said, at first only your top two rows of talents will be visible and accessible—when you hit level 8 you’ll unlock the next two rows, and at level 15 you’ll unlock the final two rows."

katkillad
01-08-2016, 03:32 PM
A clarification from HexEnt so as to curb expectations right now would be good...

I also read it as only 1/3rd would be available at launch. I would also like to have realistic expectations.

Xavon
01-08-2016, 03:37 PM
Things I took from this:

They finally (hopefully?) got the 'move card up in the deck' mechanic working.

There are only three classes, or at least the Dwarf only gets three.

Neither class revealed is particularly hypeful for me. Fingers crossed for the mage.

Seraph_Hex
01-08-2016, 03:39 PM
I want some rainbows and unicorns. I hope the kick starter update includes 1 or both of those today. :-)

As funny as you might think you are, forthcoming with information Hex Entertainment is not. But I agree, how dare people to demand clarity about the state of the game, it's not like they funded this game or something. :-)

Additionally, it's basically common knowledge that crowdfunded games never talk about the production of the game. Just take a look at Star Citizen, their lips are practically sealed and they never upload something on their YouTube-Account, right? Oh wait...

katkillad
01-08-2016, 03:45 PM
It's weird because if I could turn back time I would actually give Hex more money, but at the same time this experience keeps me from ever giving anyone on Kickstarter money again.

Mokog
01-08-2016, 03:47 PM
As funny as you might think you are, forthcoming with information Hex Entertainment is not. But I agree, how dare people to demand clarity about the state of the game, it's not like they funded this game or something. :-)

Additionally, it's basically common knowledge that crowdfunded games never talk about the production of the game. Just take a look at Star Citizen, their lips are practically sealed and they never upload something on their YouTube-Account, right? Oh wait...


Everyone participating in this discussion is hyper tuned in to the communications of a small company coming into its own navigating uncharted territory, while watching HXE learn from mistakes. We supply our thoughts and opinions while having high expectations. Not an easy or clear place.

I still want rainbows and unicorns.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 03:52 PM
There is a card with rainbow and unicorns

Catalonia
01-08-2016, 03:59 PM
we are not even 3% into 2016, were you really expecting "very begining" of 2016 was going to be the first week?! or the second one?! 0.o
thats one of the coolest updates i've seen recently, far better than what i was waiting for

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:03 PM
we are not even 3% into 2016, were you really expecting "very begining" of 2016 was going to be the first week?! or the second one?! 0.o
thats one of the coolest updates i've seen recently, far better than what i was waiting for

I admit I was one of the few who thought we'd get PVE within two weeks of Jan but I'm not bashing them for it not happening.

Svenn
01-08-2016, 04:05 PM
we are not even 3% into 2016, were you really expecting "very begining" of 2016 was going to be the first week?! or the second one?! 0.o
thats one of the coolest updates i've seen recently, far better than what i was waiting for

A release date is not a release. People were expecting an announcement of a release date, that might be weeks away. Not for the PvE to launch today. That's a pretty big difference.

You can't say PvE is coming VERY soon and then "Big announcement incoming!" and expect people to think anything else.

Saeijou
01-08-2016, 04:06 PM
we are not even 3% into 2016, were you really expecting "very begining" of 2016 was going to be the first week?! or the second one?! 0.o
thats one of the coolest updates i've seen recently, far better than what i was waiting for

most of us didn't expect that update today... or tuesday... but a date for... dunno... end of january or so!

what cory wrote sounded (at least to me), that in general everything is ready and they just don't want to release it right before the holidays, when no one is there to support...
so give them a week to get back into the business and then... get the party started!

but what we get now (delayed announcements and stuff)... kills the mood a little bit

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:06 PM
If it's any conslation the Friday announcement not up yet least when I looked.

Svenn
01-08-2016, 04:06 PM
If it's any conslation the Friday announcement not up yet least when I looked.

You keep posting this. There is no announcement today. The announcement was delayed.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:10 PM
Quick note to the community. We ran into some technical hurdles recently and couldn’t finish a few pieces of content that we had originally planned to announce. But, we hope the article about the new Cleric class can help show a little more into the world of PvE on Entrath!”

We couldn't announce what we intended is all it said and cleric has no "Hex Update:" anywhere on it so there is something to look forward but maybe just a card or maybe a bigger update regardless that did not explicitly state that Cleric is all we get today.

GobBluth
01-08-2016, 04:11 PM
Typically the best way to do business is to under promise and over deliver. This doesn't mean you don't get people excited, but it means you don't promise things you know you probably won't deliver. Hex takes the exact opposite tact. They are constantly promising announcements, content, or just spoilers and they have literally never hit a deadline. They shoot themselves in the foot at every turn and it sucks that the hype for this game is being substituted with anger over how they handle their delays and announcements.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:17 PM
Typically the best way to do business is to under promise and over deliver. This doesn't mean you don't get people excited, but it means you don't promise things you know you probably won't deliver. Hex takes the exact opposite tact. They are constantly promising announcements, content, or just spoilers and they have literally never hit a deadline. They shoot themselves in the foot at every turn and it sucks that the hype for this game is being substituted with anger over how they handle their delays and announcements.

Eh their small maybe like 100 or less people in all. You get excited over ideas and progress then you hype to everyone bout it and then.... You trip and face plant. Nothing wrong with over eagerness. And unlike some games I could mention *cough* Infinity Wars *cough* they are at least posting information at the very least. You gotta give em credit they are active stead of hiding everything then their biggest employees quitting and game dying.

fido_one
01-08-2016, 04:22 PM
It's weird because if I could turn back time I would actually give Hex more money, but at the same time this experience keeps me from ever giving anyone on Kickstarter money again.

Well said, best kickstarter/indiegogo I have ever backed, period. And my last for a while, quit while I'm ahead. Backed some good ones in the past, and some really bad ones. Still, if you told me I'd be sitting here a week into Jan 2016 without any PvE or date, I definitely would not have backed, which would have been my loss of course.

ryuukan
01-08-2016, 04:22 PM
Eh their small maybe like 100 or less people in all. You get excited over ideas and progress then you hype to everyone bout it and then.... You trip and face plant. Nothing wrong with over eagerness. And unlike some games I could mention *cough* Infinity Wars *cough* they are at least posting information at the very least. You gotta give em credit they are active stead of hiding everything then their biggest employees quitting and game dying.

This is a Facebook post you make on a friend's wall about being dumped or not getting a job

Svenn
01-08-2016, 04:22 PM
Eh their small maybe like 100 or less people in all. You get excited over ideas and progress then you hype to everyone bout it and then.... You trip and face plant. Nothing wrong with over eagerness. And unlike some games I could mention *cough* Infinity Wars *cough* they are at least posting information at the very least. You gotta give em credit they are active stead of hiding everything then their biggest employees quitting and game dying.

Wrong. There IS something wrong with it. It gets people hyped up and disappointed. If there was no mention of a "special announcement" people would be overjoyed at today's article. Instead everyone is upset and disappointed. It can (and already has) hurt their business and the game.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:24 PM
This is a Facebook post you make on a friend's wall about being dumped or not getting a job

I'm going to take that as meant to be rude but I have no back talk to it.

ryuukan
01-08-2016, 04:28 PM
I'm going to take that as meant to be rude but I have no back talk to it.

Take it as undermining a professional game development studio

Many studios have gone under for not delivering on their projects. It's an affront to the real people who work at the company to treat things so casually

fido_one
01-08-2016, 04:28 PM
Typically the best way to do business is to under promise and over deliver. This doesn't mean you don't get people excited, but it means you don't promise things you know you probably won't deliver. Hex takes the exact opposite tact. They are constantly promising announcements, content, or just spoilers and they have literally never hit a deadline. They shoot themselves in the foot at every turn and it sucks that the hype for this game is being substituted with anger over how they handle their delays and announcements.

True, their communication on this sort of stuff is crazy broken... BUT they have consistently delivered, albeit at about 1/10th the speed. I think most companies would be cutting large swaths of functionality as they realized it was much, much harder than originally anticipated. They deserve a mountain of credit for that.

Still, I wonder, what sort of vetting did they do for the Kickstarter? I know CZE is new to software dev, but you think a few consultants would have come in after the Gas Powered Games handed it over and had a conniption fit on KS promises. While I am not a software developer, I have managed teams that adapt and re-engineer some really complex software (Enterprise Resource Planning stuff) for large, diverse institutions. My teams never really went above 30 people, but I never started a project like that without bringing in every Tom, Dick and Harry that is NOT connected to the project to help evaluate hidden complexities.

I just scratch my head that someone years ago when the KS was announced didn't get a small consulting team together to review where some experienced person would go 'dude, you ain't getting shit done in 3 or 4 months, this is going to take you years to re-engineer.'

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:30 PM
Take it as undermining a professional game development studio

Many studios have gone under for not delivering on their projects. It's an affront to the real people who work at the company to treat things so casually

I was not under the assumption I was being blatantly rude.

fido_one
01-08-2016, 04:31 PM
I was not under the assumption I was being blatantly rude.

You weren't being blatantly rude. Or rude.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:32 PM
I'm going to say that given lore the Coyotle Mages will be deeply tied to Thunderfield.

Which makes me excited for Mages and this spoil not been a big disappointment to me.

ryuukan
01-08-2016, 04:33 PM
I was not under the assumption I was being blatantly rude.

You weren't, I was just correcting you

I'm very magnanimous like that

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:34 PM
Mag a what?

Renquist
01-08-2016, 04:36 PM
Take it as undermining a professional game development studio

Many studios have gone under for not delivering on their projects. It's an affront to the real people who work at the company to treat things so casually

It's reassuring that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

fido_one
01-08-2016, 04:36 PM
You weren't, I was just correcting you

I'm very magnanimous like that



Mag a what?

Whoa guys keep it civil! Let's not be throwing out complicated words we have to look up in Google, I had to switch windows to figure out the dialogue and that is just plain old wrong because I am lazy.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 04:42 PM
Anyhoo How bout we stop talking bout what's wrong with Hex and enjoy the cleric talent tree and speculate the other trees?

Yoss
01-08-2016, 04:50 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, I think this was just bad wording. If you look at the Warrior skill tree, you'll notice that the first 1/3 is open to you when you create your character, and the other 2/3rds (other tiers) open up as you level. Ben's comments are in line with your point but I think more in line with what their intended design - my guess is the full trees will be present at PvE launch.
If you want to get your hopes up, go ahead, but to me it sounds pretty clear that there will only be the first tier of talents available, probably with a level cap at 10 (out of 30). I'm also only expecting the Warrior, Cleric, and Mage classes to exist for this patch. All races. No crafting. No mercs. No raids. No guilds. No Keep Defense. Et cetera. Yet still solid (if slow) progress and probably already a better game than Shandalar (which was awesome in its own right).


As funny as you might think you are, forthcoming with information Hex Entertainment is not. But I agree, how dare people to demand clarity about the state of the game, it's not like they funded this game or something. :-)
Out of curiosity, what percentage of the funding for this game do you think came from the $2.5M KS funds? Do you think 100% of the required funding came from crowdsourcing?


Still, I wonder, what sort of vetting did they do for the Kickstarter? I know CZE is new to software dev, but you think a few consultants would have come in after the Gas Powered Games handed it over and had a conniption fit on KS promises. While I am not a software developer, I have managed teams that adapt and re-engineer some really complex software (Enterprise Resource Planning stuff) for large, diverse institutions. My teams never really went above 30 people, but I never started a project like that without bringing in every Tom, Dick and Harry that is NOT connected to the project to help evaluate hidden complexities.

I just scratch my head that someone years ago when the KS was announced didn't get a small consulting team together to review where some experienced person would go 'dude, you ain't getting shit done in 3 or 4 months, this is going to take you years to re-engineer.'

Yeah, it's a bit baffling, but water under the bridge at this point and also not out of family with the way many KS campaigns are run. KS lives on hype. Most crowd funders don't want realism and risk assessments the way a real business person would, and probably wouldn't know how to interpret those data even if they were available. It's just a pure sales job with glitz and glamour. Since this was my first KS, I didn't fully appreciate that, but to some extent I'm glad. This game is great and getting better, so I'm glad my risk averse side didn't get in my way for backing what's looking to be an awesome game, eventually. Plus, I've already had a ton of fun just with PvP, much more than I expected to.

HXE has learned and grown a lot. It is still a very young company and this is its first and only product. (Granted, there is plenty of industry experience on their team that they've hired in.) I just hope they keep learning, especially on the CM front, where they've never performed well and continue to struggle.

EDIT:
Magnanimous means to be generous, kind, and/or benevolent.

Zophie
01-08-2016, 05:04 PM
Hey look collector AAs announced today, that's kinda special, I like the art

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 05:04 PM
You can take AA Backer cards as special or not. And please for love of god don't force me to be a class I'm only vaguely very minorly interested in....

Awrien
01-08-2016, 05:09 PM
PvE will be cool and all, but more importantly that AA balthasar got its original text. All is right in the world

fido_one
01-08-2016, 05:12 PM
If you want to get your hopes up, go ahead, but to me it sounds pretty clear that there will only be the first tier of talents available, probably with a level cap at 10 (out of 30). I'm also only expecting the Warrior, Cleric, and Mage classes to exist for this patch. All races. No crafting. No mercs. No raids. No guilds. No Keep Defense. Et cetera. Yet still solid (if slow) progress and probably already a better game than Shandalar (which was awesome in its own right).


Out of curiosity, what percentage of the funding for this game do you think came from the $2.5M KS funds? Do you think 100% of the required funding came from crowdsourcing?



Yeah, it's a bit baffling, but water under the bridge at this point and also not out of family with the way many KS campaigns are run. KS lives on hype. Most crowd funders don't want realism and risk assessments the way a real business person would, and probably wouldn't know how to interpret those data even if they were available. It's just a pure sales job with glitz and glamour. Since this was my first KS, I didn't fully appreciate that, but to some extent I'm glad. This game is great and getting better, so I'm glad my risk averse side didn't get in my way for backing what's looking to be an awesome game, eventually. Plus, I've already had a ton of fun just with PvP, much more than I expected to.

HXE has learned and grown a lot. It is still a very young company and this is its first and only product. (Granted, there is plenty of industry experience on their team that they've hired in.) I just hope they keep learning, especially on the CM front, where they've never performed well and continue to struggle.

EDIT:
Magnanimous means to be generous, kind, and/or benevolent.

Good points Yoss, I did know what Magnum Opus meant, I was trying to be funny but failed. :(

hex_colin
01-08-2016, 05:12 PM
PvE will be cool and all, but more importantly that AA balthasar got its original text. All is right in the world

This! :) Oh, happy day. An incredibly special announcement indeed! :)

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 05:14 PM
I'm happy with the Cleric and frankly I've been reading it like every other half hour

Xavon
01-08-2016, 05:35 PM
Things I took from this:

They finally (hopefully?) got the 'move card up in the deck' mechanic working.

There are only three classes, or at least the Dwarf only gets three.

Neither class revealed is particularly hypeful for me. Fingers crossed for the mage.

One more thing, I really want the equip for the Turreted Wall. And hope it is cool.

Jensling
01-08-2016, 05:45 PM
Now the only thing thats making me sad is: to get the original text Balth you'd either have to be a Kickstarter, or most likely pay exorbitant amounts of plat/money to buy one from a kickstarter (I'm guessing this will be one of the prizier AAs) TT_TT

superdax
01-08-2016, 06:14 PM
Now the only thing thats making me sad is: to get the original text Balth you'd either have to be a Kickstarter, or most likely pay exorbitant amounts of plat/money to buy one from a kickstarter (I'm guessing this will be one of the prizier AAs) TT_TT

I'm not a big fan of the art (text is something else) i would think the Soul Marble would of been the pricier ones

Mejis
01-08-2016, 06:43 PM
Things I took from this:

They finally (hopefully?) got the 'move card up in the deck' mechanic working.



Was there ever a card slated to do this before that got cut because it couldn't be coded?

Aradon
01-08-2016, 06:46 PM
Was there ever a card slated to do this before that got cut because it couldn't be coded?

Reginald Lancashire had an equipment that would, after getting shuffled into his opponent's deck, destroy the next troop above it. That's in the same vein. I don't remember specifically this 'move up in deck' showing up somewhere, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Mejis
01-08-2016, 06:56 PM
Reginald Lancashire had an equipment that would, after getting shuffled into his opponent's deck, destroy the next troop above it. That's in the same vein. I don't remember specifically this 'move up in deck' showing up somewhere, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Awesome thanks. Was this equip temporarily in game then, or just listed somewhere? I'm not in-game atm but don't see it listed on tcgbrowser.
Regardless, I think the blessing and ability to sift upwards for the cleric is amazing and makes me very excited for this class, whereas I wasn't so much before this.

Xavon
01-08-2016, 07:03 PM
Was there ever a card slated to do this before that got cut because it couldn't be coded?

Not a card, The Mirrorblade (after the initial nerf) gave this effect to the Gambited troop. But it did not work, and then we got the current version.

Aradon
01-08-2016, 07:13 PM
Awesome thanks. Was this equip temporarily in game then, or just listed somewhere? I'm not in-game atm but don't see it listed on tcgbrowser.
Regardless, I think the blessing and ability to sift upwards for the cleric is amazing and makes me very excited for this class, whereas I wasn't so much before this.

Wasn't ever in game. If I recall, it was listed with the preview for Reginald, but the set was implemented before we ever got equipment.

Laggi
01-08-2016, 08:21 PM
LOOOOUD NOOOOOISES!!!












I enjoy these talents a lot. I like my PVE Jank deck, and now it might work even better.

Fateanomaly
01-08-2016, 09:28 PM
The cleric reveal isn't too bad. I don't really expect a release date anyway. If we get a class reveal each week, we might be able to survive another month of waiting.

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 09:29 PM
The cleric reveal isn't too bad. I don't really expect a release date anyway. If we get a class reveal each week, we might be able to survive another month of waiting.

Haha what if they release it before they spoil all classes? :P

Zophie
01-08-2016, 09:31 PM
Haha what if they release it before they spoil all classes? :P

Then I guess we'll never know what the other classes are :rolleyes:

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 09:33 PM
Then I guess we'll never know what the other classes are :rolleyes:

By playing it we will XD

Zophie
01-08-2016, 09:38 PM
By playing it we will XD

http://i.imgur.com/odg0GDT.gif

WolfCrypt
01-08-2016, 09:39 PM
LMAO at Zophie.

funktion
01-08-2016, 11:13 PM
That's a nonsense argument, because if you genuinely believed that they had no intention of announcing the release date today you are in a very definite minority, and there's a vocal majority that made their belief quite clear. The argument that HexEnt never promised anything and thus don't need to comment on the lack of a date doesn't hold water when the majority of their active community has said quite clearly they would like some information. Whatever may have been promised, the promise generated an expectation that should not be ignored.

I'm personally not surprised we won't be getting it immediately, and I've no idea when we'll be getting it, and I'm not annoyed about that- I'm well aware that massive projects can hit stumbling blocks. What I would appreciate, as a fan and as a consumer, is someone from HexEnt actually addressing the issue with more than a line or two stuck at the top of another article. It doesn't have to include a date, but something as simple as "it's definitely not going to be for the next few weeks" would mean a lot.

Yeah guess I'll just chalk it up to your expectations were not my expectations, but I'll also say that I definitely cannot personally speak to what the majority opinion is.

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 12:26 AM
You guys are a riot. It's pretty clear the special announcement was never a release date. Whatever it was we'll see it later. This update was pretty good considering it wasn't what they planned to give us.

I'm not too in love with the collector choices or art. But a couple of them are really good. They can't all be mirror Knight, and I shouldn't expect them to be. All in all. Things are looking good. Can't wait for pve. =)

Cernz
01-09-2016, 01:37 AM
Set4 anyone? Its about time ;)

spankydonkey
01-09-2016, 01:41 AM
Maybe the special announcement was that they where going to release a test server.
Where we could only play as a Dwarf, as one of the 3 classes shown.
Bug test it to hell & back?
As was done with the arena.

But who knows, 'not us the unclean that's for sure'.

Time is ticking & frustrations are building.

I believe what's needed, is for the HXE team to sit down & have a long meeting about what they are going to talk about in the next meeting, that's sure to move the whole thing along quicker.

Mejis
01-09-2016, 02:09 AM
Set4 anyone? Its about time ;)

Haha I speculated on the HEX reddit that maybe the announcement was going to be Set 4 coinciding with PvE release :P

ossuary
01-09-2016, 02:57 AM
Even if they hadn't already said they're not releasing together, there's no way they would ever release them together. It would split the players too much. I'm sure the eventual goal is to have new PVE content release (relatively) close to new PVP content release, so new story / lore / mechanics can show up just before or after a big set launch, but I wouldn't ever expect them both to drop at the same time.

This update was OBJECTIVELY amazing. Anyone who is disappointed by it is actually disappointed because they overhyped what was going to be announced in their own minds. It was silly to expect a release date to be announced one week after Cory specifically said there were game-breaking bugs that needed to be fixed before they were comfortable launching. Everything is in, it just needs to be cleaned up before they can shove it out the door. With bugs like that, it's often hard to nail down an exact timeframe. This is the last hurdle... as soon as they figure out the fix for these critical bugs, it will be ready. Whenever that happens, it would be reasonable to expect an "it's out next week!" announcement, but it might take a few weeks to actually work out whatever the problem(s) are.

Home stretch. Be patient. Temper your expectations with reasonableness. :)

Mejis
01-09-2016, 03:23 AM
Even if they hadn't already said they're not releasing together, there's no way they would ever release them together. It would split the players too much. I'm sure the eventual goal is to have new PVE content release (relatively) close to new PVP content release, so new story / lore / mechanics can show up just before or after a big set launch, but I wouldn't ever expect them both to drop at the same time.

This update was OBJECTIVELY amazing. Anyone who is disappointed by it is actually disappointed because they overhyped what was going to be announced in their own minds. It was silly to expect a release date to be announced one week after Cory specifically said there were game-breaking bugs that needed to be fixed before they were comfortable launching. Everything is in, it just needs to be cleaned up before they can shove it out the door. With bugs like that, it's often hard to nail down an exact timeframe. This is the last hurdle... as soon as they figure out the fix for these critical bugs, it will be ready. Whenever that happens, it would be reasonable to expect an "it's out next week!" announcement, but it might take a few weeks to actually work out whatever the problem(s) are.

Home stretch. Be patient. Temper your expectations with reasonableness. :)

Yeah I know, coinciding Set 4 with PvE would be a tad foolish I guess, much better to split PvP and PvE schedule.
And yes, the update was amazing in relation to showing a skill tree. It has me very excited to give Cleric a go once we get our hands on it.

Metronomy
01-09-2016, 05:22 AM
..
This update was OBJECTIVELY amazing. Anyone who is disappointed by it is actually disappointed because they overhyped what was going to be announced in their own minds. It was silly to expect a release date to be announced one week after Cory specifically said there were game-breaking bugs that needed to be fixed before they were comfortable launching. ..

Objectively they announced a special announcement. Objectively there is no special announcement (as long as you are not colin and think the collector tier cards were the special announcement). So thats one objective reason to be disappointed.

As to us being foolish expecting a release date announcement: Cory wrote on 28th of december that pve is coming at the very begining of 2016. Hack..he even emphazied the word "very". How is it then foolish to expect a release within january ?

Xenavire
01-09-2016, 05:33 AM
Objectively they announced a special announcement. Objectively there is no special announcement (as long as you are not colin and think the collector tier cards were the special announcement). So thats one objective reason to be disappointed.

As to us being foolish expecting a release date announcement: Cory wrote on 28th of december that pve is coming at the very begining of 2016. Hack..he even emphazied the word "very". How is it then foolish to expect a release within january ?

How many times have we told you and others to temper your expectations and expect delays? Prepare for the worst, be pleasantly surprised by anythingbetter than that. It's good to be a realist/pessimist.

Khazrakh
01-09-2016, 05:47 AM
How many times have we told you and others to temper your expectations and expect delays? Prepare for the worst, be pleasantly surprised by anythingbetter than that. It's good to be a realist/pessimist.

While all of this has been said a hundred times already, it's not peoples fault if they expect something because of some very strong indications that there indeed is something to be expected. Corys very soon and the announcement of an huge announcement prior this week indeed pointed towards a...well...huge announcement.
Thins that would qualify as huge right now:

- Release Date
- Opening the Test Server
- Set 4 Ninja Release
- Some REALLY big unexpected feature

Expectation Management is an art and it's incredibly hard to do it right. Even more so in the fast paced videa game world we live in.
All that doesn't change that HXE - sadly - still is really bad at handling expectations. People shouldn't need to be pessimistic about every single piece of information they get and telling people that they should have known only leads to two things: It gets them worked up even more and at some point they just move on. That's not what we want to achieve.

I know PVE will come, I know it's close now and I'm hopeful that Hex will go big really soon but the expectation management NEEDS to improve or it will hurt Hex a lot.

Metronomy
01-09-2016, 05:48 AM
im just stating facts....people have to realize there are reasons other people might be disappointed..

saying..."its your fault for trusting anything they say" should not be the answer

Personaly I can even live with it but people should not be oppressed when they state their dissatisfaction.

ryuukan
01-09-2016, 06:35 AM
Nothing says "2016 will be a great year for Hex" like a QA tester telling the community to "prepare for the worst"

Counter
01-09-2016, 07:21 AM
I'll just say that not releasing any new content for people to spend money on during the Holidays of 2015 is a major mistake and failure. People have time and money during December. No releases...no money. It's a failure. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

I'll still support the game, but it's disappointing to see Hex fail.

Koz
01-09-2016, 07:28 AM
How many times have we told you and others to temper your expectations and expect delays? Prepare for the worst, be pleasantly surprised by anythingbetter than that. It's good to be a realist/pessimist.

Exactly. People get themselves way too hyped up and just set themselves up to be disappointed. I've been banking on a Feb/Mar release date for a long time now, no matter WHAT they've said. If it comes out earlier, I'll be happy, if not, then it's what I expected all along.

It's the same approach I've taken regarding new George R.R. Martin books....because it's better to assume his books won't be done anytime soon than it is to stab myself in the throat every six months out of frustration... ;)

fido_one
01-09-2016, 07:42 AM
Expectation Management is an art and it's incredibly hard to do it right. ...
All that doesn't change that HXE - sadly - still is really bad at handling expectations. People shouldn't need to be pessimistic about every single piece of information they get and telling people that they should have known only leads to two things: It gets them worked up even more and at some point they just move on. That's not what we want to achieve.

Yes.

I love everyone here, but I get really sick of the community reaction where CZE says 'something big is coming' and it doesn't come and the answer from half of the community was 'you were ignorant to believe it would come on time'.

For this case we were hyped for something... Fine! Not a release date. But a big announcement by their own accord they didn't end up making. Then you get a parade of people coming in and saying 'you're overreacting! We got more than we wanted!'.

I get sick of people saying 'what did you expect?' with the assumption that given their track record one would be an idiot to think they would actually deliver.

Honestly guys, that does more discredit to CZE than all of the people who negatively feed off of the drama that they didn't hit their intended dates. When they do get their shit together in this area, they'll never be perceived as being good at it because we've all woven into the fabric of the game that they are crap at it and it should just be accepted. What happens when this game is released, tons of people come in, and maybe, just maybe, they get to a groove where they start improving on this area? All of the 'that's what CZE does, you shouldn't be reacting that they didn't deliver' people will have provided a foundation that the company can never climb out of. Go ahead and slam people who are stirring up the community for drama sake, but don't marginalize people's disappointment when CZE misses their marks.

malloc31
01-09-2016, 07:52 AM
How many times have we told you and others to temper your expectations and expect delays? Prepare for the worst, be pleasantly surprised by anythingbetter than that. It's good to be a realist/pessimist.

So the answer is to assume that HXE is wrong about everything and never able to deliver anything they promise? that is what you are suggesting?

(I think it is true, but the answer is not us changing but them changing)

Baigan
01-09-2016, 08:48 AM
Honestly guys, that does more discredit to CZE than all of the people who negatively feed off of the drama that they didn't hit their intended dates.

+1, and Svenn had similar comments along this line.

The success of Hex' advertising push will rest on the backs of engaged and enthusiastic players spreading the good word. Except, it can't be a good word because we have to responsibly manage our expectations. And it won't be from enthusiastic players because repeated delays and unmet announcements of announcements tend to sap enthusiasm from the general playerbase.

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 08:52 AM
Honestly, this update was a special update. It's only the second class tree we've ever seen. They might have had a different special announcement in mind originally. But they did great with their plan b. Was it incredibly dumb to have said anything special was coming at all? Absolutely. Whoever did that is terrible and should know better. But that aside being upset about the update we got is just silly. They could have easily said instead that the special update was always the cleric tree and that would have fit just fine. Instead they let you know that another special update is in line for the future.

LNQ
01-09-2016, 08:57 AM
Really good post from fido_one. Xena & co should really take note.

Edit: Gwaer, it is not a special update in the context that the special announcement was pre announced and we all know it. Pretending that the update was extra special doesnt do anyone a service.

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 09:03 AM
It's not pretending. It's fact. That update was one of the crunchiest pve updates we have ever received. It was really good. And that is especially impressive since it wasn't the intended update. The mistake was whoever leaked they had a special plan for this update is not trained with dealing with people and should leave that to people that are. But they made a very good effort to still deliver something special.

wolzarg
01-09-2016, 09:04 AM
Really good post from fido_one. Xena & co should really take note.

Edit: Gwaer, it is not a special update in the context that the special announcement was pre announced and we all know it. Pretending that the update was extra special doesnt do anyone a service.
But its not pretending it was a talent tree, traits and all cards related with this. Something can be special and not be the special everyone wanted.

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 09:13 AM
Heck forget one of. This was the crunchiest pve updates ever. The warrior talent tree we saw at gencon was less polished and has probably changed a ton. This was gencon level of information just because it's close on the horizon. This is an indicator that pve really has moved forward. It's the first real sign we've publicly seen that it's probably okay to start getting excited. This update with a bit more work and a higher word count would have qualified in every way as a hypable update. And instead they had something they consider even better planned. That's pretty exciting to me that backup plan is gencon level announcement.

Metronomy
01-09-2016, 09:20 AM
the facebook post was "Here's a quick PvE spoil today! More to come on Friday with a special announcement!"

Could we please all at least acknowledge that there was no special announcement ? The cleric spoiler is nice and all but it is not an announcement. To my understanding it also wasnt plan b. The cleric spoiler was supposed to happen and so was some special announcement. The announcement is delayed (btw. the 2nd time in a row they announced an announcement and then had to delay the announcemant).

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 09:30 AM
I have acknowledged multiple times that hxe is terrible about their messaging. Something else was planned to happen and didn't. That's a shame. But it was never a release date and what we got was a fantastic peek into pve. So if we know it wasn't a release date, what could it possibly have been that should overshadow the actual article we got. Which once again Is the best we have ever gotten from the informing us about pve standpoint.

HXE really needs to hire someone who understands how to talk to a community. Making announcements about stuff you absolutely aren't ready to show needs to stop. This has been an ongoing problem that having a CM was supposed to fix . Ultimately it comes from an excitement standpoint. They are just as excited about pve as the most excited fan and want us to know asap everything. But when they can't follow through it hurts them. Hold things a bit closer to the chest. Don't make public announcements before it's in the chamber.

Metronomy
01-09-2016, 09:42 AM
just a short follow up (we dont need to discuss this all much further since its pointless and we are mostly in agreement)...but how do you know for sure it never was supposed to be a release date ?..did I miss something ?

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 09:48 AM
In the other thread Shaq said if they had a date that would have been at the top of the update. Nothing would stop them from announcing a date as soon as they have one. Because that's how they do. Whatever was planned for today it wasn't a release date.

katkillad
01-09-2016, 09:50 AM
Really surprised they don't make the bug testers/QA post from a different account with these kinds of subjects, some people will assume they are speaking with some knowledge of the current state of things.

Gwaer
01-09-2016, 10:04 AM
Indeed. I originally asked to have a separate account when they asked me to do stuff for them to avoid just that. But, they didn't go for it. So just gotta deal with it at this point.

Khazrakh
01-09-2016, 10:08 AM
HXE really needs to hire someone who understands how to talk to a community. Making announcements about stuff you absolutely aren't ready to show needs to stop. This has been an ongoing problem that having a CM was supposed to fix . Ultimately it comes from an excitement standpoint. They are just as excited about pve as the most excited fan and want us to know asap everything. But when they can't follow through it hurts them. Hold things a bit closer to the chest. Don't make public announcements before it's in the chamber.

That's the problem really and I think most of us actually agree on that.
Less announcing of fantastic announcements and more actual spoilers would have been great.
The update we got actually IS fantastic, I've read it several times already, tinkering around in my head what talents I'd take and so on.
If we didn't have the special announcement announcement and the very beginning in italic everybody would be really hyped right now claiming that PVE must be right around the corner now (which it probably is).
Communication and expectation management has gone from "ah well they are just starting" through "it's somewhat cute isn't it?" to "this is getting unbearable!" without actually changing much.
Once Hex is released (and PVE is the release, no matter if it's called release or not) this has to get better and fast. Just making up numbers right now I'd say that 90%-95% of the community are still really in favor of HXE and just want to finally get their hands on PVE and see Hex rise to the top.
Once the F2P masses get here this is going to change dramatically...

bizznach
01-09-2016, 11:06 AM
if i was hex i prob woulda told half the people on the forums get the eff off my acorns long ago.

they wanted to probably announce pve release/ready/whatever.
still found bugs so couldn't.
boohoo.

a bunch of people then proceed to have little melties all over the place.
just like when they had to push back set 3 what...a week?
less?
the dwarf cleric update was awesome.
just the thought behind why someone would want a 100 card deck and most prob how many cards you would need in a raid and how they built jank bot, a odd card right into a class and all the whys and whats.
blessings?
yes please.
and the talent tree spoiler was flashy as hell!
too bad that they couldnt give us the update they wanted to.

HEX is most probably massively disappointed they had to push it back.
oh well its almost ready.
and it sounds super close for another milestone.
and i got to see a game that sounded awesome and plays awesome and will only get better and take up alot more of my free time.
and i got ALL my monies worth.

Sausage factory and Lawsuits and Cool Ideas and building and trying and community tournaments and mistakes and milestones.
all this being made for us(and them for sure).

and SO DAMN MUCH from scratch.

and to think all i had 3-4 years ago i think was Lackey and octgn.

thanks HEX for all your heart and you just keep doing you.

chromus
01-09-2016, 11:29 AM
This is indeed another communication mishap in the expanding list of them. The update itself is actually really great considering we knew nothing about Characters traits/talents other than the Warrior Talent update (from August!). We get to see the Character Creation screen, 1/3 of all the Cleric Talents, Class specific cards, Racial Traits, and Race+Class special traits. All the screens look very polished and I can really feel the PvE patch is close. Exciting!

So let's keep hoping the communication will improve while not letting these mishaps hurt the hype - which is very real!

Mejis
01-09-2016, 01:34 PM
Let's maybe steer this towards more positive grounds now. I think we've covered all that needs to be said from all angles.

How about some fun speculation on what the announcement could have been?
What feature/amazing thing, given we've essentially been told it wasn't a release date, could it be?

I'm gonna go extreme (I don't believe it, but let's go cRaZy) and say the announcement was double backs have been coded in, or at least some form of extensive stat tracking.

IronPheasant
01-09-2016, 02:44 PM
I was assuming maybe a test server for Some Thing.

Anything short of that would be a firm "meh".

frychikn
01-09-2016, 02:51 PM
too bad that they couldnt give us the update they wanted to.

HEX is most probably massively disappointed they had to push it back.
oh well its almost ready.


I'm curious as to how you can say this when it keeps getting pushed back? What about when we reach March and we still have no PVE, are you still going to have this stance?

RCDv57
01-09-2016, 03:24 PM
I'm curious as to how you can say this when it keeps getting pushed back? What about when we reach March and we still have no PVE, are you still going to have this stance?

Yes.

WolfCrypt
01-09-2016, 03:30 PM
I doubt a Test Server I'm under the impression they'll just release PVE.

frychikn
01-09-2016, 03:58 PM
Yes.

when does it get out of hand though?

bizznach
01-09-2016, 04:05 PM
I'm curious as to how you can say this when it keeps getting pushed back? What about when we reach March and we still have no PVE, are you still going to have this stance?

same as me saying what happens if they release tomorrow?

why worry about the future

RCDv57
01-09-2016, 04:26 PM
when does it get out of hand though?

When they announce a date and miss it.
(Date does not equal timeframe)

Pezzle
01-09-2016, 04:26 PM
Regular sef releases.

I get that people want pve. But a tcg needs regular fresh content. This is not happening and wrecking interest in the game. I cannot convince any of the people playing other games to look at hex seriously because the content is lacking.

WolfCrypt
01-09-2016, 04:31 PM
Regular sef releases.

I get that people want pve. But a tcg needs regular fresh content. This is not happening and wrecking interest in the game. I cannot convince any of the people playing other games to look at hex seriously because the content is lacking.

There is the fact that Hex released two sets of PVP with nothing for F2Pers and then FR and then Set 3. There has been enough sets for PVP for them to now release PVE. Perhaps they'll eventually be able to release PVE content and PVP sets. I think it's premature to think Hex is going downhill it's not been say 10 months since last release.

Lafoote
01-09-2016, 04:48 PM
It wasn't really the update I was looking for, but I'm surprised to see it generate 17 pages of discontent.

WolfCrypt
01-09-2016, 04:50 PM
Ah well such is humans.

Xavon
01-09-2016, 04:51 PM
It's not all discontent.

And Hakuna Matata people.

WolfCrypt
01-09-2016, 04:57 PM
Also bout the 1/3rd of tree equals 3 'pages' of talent equals 42 talents that's over 252 talents out of 6 classes that's a lot of options even if you only play one class. 41 choices (I counted the Default power when I got 42) to choose from is a lot of customization.

ryuukan
01-09-2016, 05:46 PM
It's not all discontent.

And Hakuna Matata people.

*Wakuna

frychikn
01-09-2016, 07:38 PM
When they announce a date and miss it.
(Date does not equal timeframe)

so technically they could just never mention a release date EVER and you'd be fine with it?

wolzarg
01-09-2016, 08:09 PM
Starwars is on the rise again and none in the entire thread made a this is not the announcement you are looking for joke. What kind of madness is this?!

Happy or not lets be nice to each other and not look for reasons to jump at someones throat hopefully the announcement each and every one of us was looking for will be here sooner rather than later.

Xenavire
01-09-2016, 08:34 PM
Really surprised they don't make the bug testers/QA post from a different account with these kinds of subjects, some people will assume they are speaking with some knowledge of the current state of things.

I have said repeatedly that I speak for myself, not either company, and you should always assume I know nothing more than the average poster. My title actually means very little here on the forums, and for a fair while I didn't even have the title, while still helping in the same capacity I do now.

As for what I have said in this thread - I speak to release dates, when it comes to tempering expectations. We have an established history of missing dates due to technical issues. The sad fact is that this is likely to continue until all the core, massive features are in the client. Building a game is not easy, and even simple things can be large hurdles at times, not even mentioning anything complex.

What you should do is expect a few delays (whether or not we have seen them all now, I couldn't tell you) and a very satisfying end result, just like every other major release we have had. Hex is like fine wine - worth the wait.

Aradon
01-09-2016, 08:46 PM
We have an established history of missing dates due to technical issues. The sad fact is that this is likely to continue until all the core, massive features are in the client.

I'd like to give CZE a little credit. Just after they recognize that they've missed their intended date, they give an updated time frame. One would think they'd be careful about the messaging they're giving. Cory clearly said 'very beginning of 2016.' Sure, I could assume that they're just incapable of accurately giving time frames, but I'd rather take them at their word. Granted, 'very beginning of 2016' has some room for interpretation. While I'd consider that to be 'sooner than 'the end of Q1',' that may not be what was meant at all. They need to manage expectations, though, and it's not fair to tell us all to just automatically disbelieve any time frames they tell us. Even if it's accurate, you don't blame someone for taking something at face value.

Anyways, my point is that missing deadlines/dates isn't necessarily a trend that will continue for the foreseeable future. CZE could be more accurate (or just plain less optimistic and more conservative.) And that it wouldn't be fair to them to assume they're not capable of improving that or not interested.

I'll also add that, in the events of these delays, I know I'd personally be a lot less frustrated with ambiguous delays if I knew just what state the content was in. Last update, Cory said it was essentially complete, just 'a few too many bugs,' which helps a lot. Knowing more about just what the delays are gives me some confidence in their own estimates that's actually informed, rather than trusting blindly in timelines that have been 'ambitious' in the past. Just my thoughts as a player who is frustrated, but still very eager to play PvE.

Xenavire
01-09-2016, 08:56 PM
I am sure dates and deadlines will get more accurate over time, and I would honestly expect the near future to see this become the new standard for them. But I prefer to be pessimistic about it and not set myself uo for disappointment - so I will expect every new feature to be pushed back until we pass the beta->release milestone.

On the upside, I am encouraged by the news set 4 is complete, more or less, so that one may just hit the mark perfectly.

RCDv57
01-09-2016, 09:05 PM
so technically they could just never mention a release date EVER and you'd be fine with it?

Yeh. I can wait.

Svenn
01-09-2016, 10:58 PM
On the upside, I am encouraged by the news set 4 is complete, more or less, so that one may just hit the mark perfectly.

Did I miss something... where did anyone say set 4 was complete?

WolfCrypt
01-09-2016, 11:01 PM
Did I miss something... where did anyone say set 4 was complete?

I'm not looking for the qoute but been said that the art was biggest issue on Set 4. Frankly we may get Camp and Set 4 before Summer but don't bite my head off if I'm wrong...

IronPheasant
01-10-2016, 03:46 AM
Granted, 'very beginning of 2016' has some room for interpretation. While I'd consider that to be 'sooner than 'the end of Q1',' that may not be what was meant at all. They need to manage expectations, though, and it's not fair to tell us all to just automatically disbelieve any time frames they tell us. Even if it's accurate, you don't blame someone for taking something at face value.

(or just plain less optimistic and more conservative.)

Da, "Very beginning" would be one of the first three weeks of January. I interpret it as "May 2016." Which incidentally is exactly how I interpreted "We're aiming for before the end of 2015."

Think how awesome it would be if they said Marchish and released in February. Then it magically feels like a reward and nobody is angry over it. See how easy it is to make people happy? Just take your internal date, add four months or so to it, and suddenly it's a gift.

Xenavire
01-10-2016, 07:17 AM
Did I miss something... where did anyone say set 4 was complete?

Cory himself, if memory serves, said that they planned out the art timing poorly and it was the major barrier to release - which leads me to believe that set 4 is more complete pre-announcement than any other set has been. Especially since that news came quite a while ago. Assuming we get the art and the remaining issues (as they always have a few) are sorted by the time PvE drops, we could see set 4 chase it very, very closely.

fido_one
01-10-2016, 09:34 AM
Cory himself, if memory serves, said that they planned out the art timing poorly and it was the major barrier to release - which leads me to believe that set 4 is more complete pre-announcement than any other set has been. Especially since that news came quite a while ago. Assuming we get the art and the remaining issues (as they always have a few) are sorted by the time PvE drops, we could see set 4 chase it very, very closely.

Cory is awesome, but I don't think this is the thread were you go 'Cory said it should be ready a while ago, so I think it should be ready.' I'll have to take this with a grain of salt given the context in this thread here.

Xenavire
01-10-2016, 10:09 AM
Cory is awesome, but I don't think this is the thread were you go 'Cory said it should be ready a while ago, so I think it should be ready.' I'll have to take this with a grain of salt given the context in this thread here.

I dunno, theres a big difference in the types of statement used. Cory said that PvE was looking good for the end of the year, while he said that set 4 was essentially complete, barring art assets. Now, I am no rocket scientist, but if Cory is saying something was basically finished several months ago, and only needed art, I can't imagine that it is suddenly less finished now.

That said, they may have continued testing the set and may have made changes, so I guess it isn't unthinkable, but it still seems likely that it would be soon after PvE.

(I usually take what Cory says with a grain of salt, but complete is complete, and I don't think he would say complete for 50% finished.)

Xexist
01-10-2016, 03:23 PM
http://i.imgur.com/odg0GDT.gif

Actualy LITERALLY Lol'd. Which I almost never do. Thanks Zophie <3 you.

athlee
01-10-2016, 05:29 PM
The way Hex is now, I have a very bad feeling that it will be going down the road of Legend of the Five Rings (L5R), a niche tcg which was released just a couple of years after MtG and in 2015 finally gave up being a tcg and was sold and is now set to become a lcg in two years time. It was beset with logistics problems and what not and are always missing deadlines of its sets. In the end, it even allowed proxies of new sets to be used in official tournaments because the new set delivery was off and people simply could not get any of the cards.

The marketing of L5R was terrible, the community had a hard time getting new players to stick around as people get bored with waiting for new sets which is announced and then delayed. All of the above is what is happening now for Hex.

If the general consensus is that announcements (official or otherwise) by the company president cannot be taken at face value, that is very bad for marketing. Who do you trust if not the company president? It is simply bad marketing strategy to allow a representative to imply something which can be taken as promises and then not be able to meet it. That is what 'unofficial and unconfirmed leaks' are for, to build hype and at the same time be able to say with a straight face that nothing was promised when something goes wrong. Someone heard from someone else that PVE would be in Dec 2015 is very different from Cory implying end of year.

Of course, there was other problems with L5R that caused it to never break out of being a niche, but for now the similarity is there with how it failed.

WolfCrypt
01-10-2016, 06:29 PM
That's extremely pessimistic...

poizonous
01-10-2016, 06:42 PM
That's extremely pessimistic...

Pessimism can only lead to pleasant surprises. Optimism leads to let downs

WolfCrypt
01-10-2016, 06:54 PM
Pessimism can only lead to pleasant surprises. Optimism leads to let downs

Maybe but he/she was extremely in negativeness

Renquist
01-10-2016, 07:22 PM
The way Hex is now, I have a very bad feeling that it will be going down the road of Legend of the Five Rings (L5R), a niche tcg which was released just a couple of years after MtG and in 2015 finally gave up being a tcg and was sold and is now set to become a lcg in two years time. It was beset with logistics problems and what not and are always missing deadlines of its sets. In the end, it even allowed proxies of new sets to be used in official tournaments because the new set delivery was off and people simply could not get any of the cards.

The marketing of L5R was terrible, the community had a hard time getting new players to stick around as people get bored with waiting for new sets which is announced and then delayed. All of the above is what is happening now for Hex.

If the general consensus is that announcements (official or otherwise) by the company president cannot be taken at face value, that is very bad for marketing. Who do you trust if not the company president? It is simply bad marketing strategy to allow a representative to imply something which can be taken as promises and then not be able to meet it. That is what 'unofficial and unconfirmed leaks' are for, to build hype and at the same time be able to say with a straight face that nothing was promised when something goes wrong. Someone heard from someone else that PVE would be in Dec 2015 is very different from Cory implying end of year.

Of course, there was other problems with L5R that caused it to never break out of being a niche, but for now the similarity is there with how it failed.


In fairness though once templates are in place the only "engineering" that needs to be created is new mechanics.

Newer sets should roll out quicker once the basics are implemented.

malloc31
01-10-2016, 07:32 PM
In fairness though once templates are in place the only "engineering" that needs to be created is new mechanics.

Newer sets should roll out quicker once the basics are implemented.

And in theory we should already have PVE ...

But truthfully there are reasons it will never be "easy" to make new sets. Every further new set the number of card interactions goes up exponentially (it has to interact with all the old cards as well as all the new ones, plus new features (pve, etc.). So the number of possible bugs goes up exponentially.

Fred
01-10-2016, 07:54 PM
In fairness though once templates are in place the only "engineering" that needs to be created is new mechanics.

If only it was that easy. Every new mechanic that gets introduced is a challenge for the AI to deal with. As it is now, the AI learns (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/09/30/hex-mmo-singleplayer-campaign-mode/) to best use cards by watching the thousands upon of thousands upon thousands of PvP matches. When a new set with a whole new mechanic comes out, the AI can't analyze PvP matches, so the engineering team has to do some very complicated programming for the AI to not look as dumb as it does now.

Engineering a new set for PvP might become simpler over time, but PvE will always have to deal with the AI.

poizonous
01-10-2016, 08:10 PM
But truthfully there are reasons it will never be "easy" to make new sets. Every further new set the number of card interactions goes up exponentially (it has to interact with all the old cards as well as all the new ones, plus new features (pve, etc.). So the number of possible bugs goes up exponentially.

But Bugged interactions wont cause long delays between sets. Sets will be released faster and bugs will get squashed while they are in play. Yes it will be "Easier" to make new sets but you are correct that the bugs will be the main issue

bizznach
01-10-2016, 08:14 PM
The way Hex is now, I have a very bad feeling that it will be going down the road of Legend of the Five Rings (L5R), a niche tcg which was released just a couple of years after MtG and in 2015 finally gave up being a tcg and was sold and is now set to become a lcg in two years time. It was beset with logistics problems and what not and are always missing deadlines of its sets. In the end, it even allowed proxies of new sets to be used in official tournaments because the new set delivery was off and people simply could not get any of the cards.

The marketing of L5R was terrible, the community had a hard time getting new players to stick around as people get bored with waiting for new sets which is announced and then delayed. All of the above is what is happening now for Hex.

If the general consensus is that announcements (official or otherwise) by the company president cannot be taken at face value, that is very bad for marketing. Who do you trust if not the company president? It is simply bad marketing strategy to allow a representative to imply something which can be taken as promises and then not be able to meet it. That is what 'unofficial and unconfirmed leaks' are for, to build hype and at the same time be able to say with a straight face that nothing was promised when something goes wrong. Someone heard from someone else that PVE would be in Dec 2015 is very different from Cory implying end of year.

Of course, there was other problems with L5R that caused it to never break out of being a niche, but for now the similarity is there with how it failed.

our prez also said that this is gonna be a sausage factory shit show sometimes and that something along the lines of he sucks figuring out dates...
that's the only confirmation i need to not get my acorns twisted when there are hiccups.

athlee
01-10-2016, 10:15 PM
My post may be pessimistic, but I would like to ask, is it wrong? In an era where people's attention span is so short?

Just take a look at how many players there is in the game. The last stress test, how many players joined? How many people are online at any one time? 14k likes the facebook page, how many are players and how many are just people passing through? tcg needs players and bad marketing will not be able to attract them.

I was around for the start and also the end of L5R as a tcg. Hex appears to be heading down the same line, interesting game with enough differences to Mtg to attract some hardcore fans, but bogged down by internal problems.

Edit: Just want to add, if Cory knows and have stated that he sucks at giving dates, he shouldn't be allowed to comment on such things from a marketing point of view because the only people who knows about this is the hardcore players. Not new players who just saw his update in Dec about the very beginning of January, or who heard him say to expect a big announcement at end of the year. Reviewers who are not old players would just look at the timeline and announcements and note the multiple delays.

WolfCrypt
01-10-2016, 10:22 PM
There is the fact your only posts are extreme negativity.. Which is interesting to note.

Gwaer
01-11-2016, 12:01 AM
All dates should just go through me now. I will be your weather rock. If someone tells you a date, you come to me, I will log into the client see if whatever feature is present on that day and every day leading up to it, and let you know once it's available, then there will be no more issues. I will only say it exists once it is present in the client, then you will know for certain that it is available.

l5r was nothing like hex. Wasn't digital primarily. they had a ton of printing/distribution problems. Hex might have issues with bugs in the future but delivering new sets on time shouldn't be an issue. They know how important that is. They know we're overdue for a new set, but they're laying groundwork. As soon as a new set is available in client, or pve is released I will let everyone know. Until you hear it from me it's just conjecture.

Evilgm
01-11-2016, 02:02 AM
There are very few similarities between L5R and Hex, and the main comparison that you mentioned, Marketing, is a significantly different scenario- L5R had marketing issues despite being around for two decades, Hex hasn't even officially launched yet- they haven't even begun proper marketing.

On top of that: Corey is no Zinser- as far as I know Corey has not travelled half way across the world to lie to a large section of the playerbase about the future of the game and then sold it less than a year later, after TOs had bought all of the prize support for tournaments that hadn't run yet. Corey actually gives a damn about his game, it's not just a way for him to pay for producing more Love Letter sets.

Cainhu
01-11-2016, 02:07 AM
The way Hex is now, I have a very bad feeling that it will be going down the road of Legend of the Five Rings (L5R), a niche tcg which was released just a couple of years after MtG and in 2015 finally gave up being a tcg and was sold and is now set to become a lcg in two years time. It was beset with logistics problems and what not and are always missing deadlines of its sets. In the end, it even allowed proxies of new sets to be used in official tournaments because the new set delivery was off and people simply could not get any of the cards.

The marketing of L5R was terrible, the community had a hard time getting new players to stick around as people get bored with waiting for new sets which is announced and then delayed. All of the above is what is happening now for Hex.

If the general consensus is that announcements (official or otherwise) by the company president cannot be taken at face value, that is very bad for marketing. Who do you trust if not the company president? It is simply bad marketing strategy to allow a representative to imply something which can be taken as promises and then not be able to meet it. That is what 'unofficial and unconfirmed leaks' are for, to build hype and at the same time be able to say with a straight face that nothing was promised when something goes wrong. Someone heard from someone else that PVE would be in Dec 2015 is very different from Cory implying end of year.

Of course, there was other problems with L5R that caused it to never break out of being a niche, but for now the similarity is there with how it failed.

Sadly I have similar thoughts. Since the KS HEX is full of undelivered promises and delays, and a general lack of meaningfull communication. Just check on the KS page, the promised date, and compare it to what was delivevered so far.

And now, it seems at the incoming PvE release, we still don't get the full experience. For example : currently I've seen mentioned or on previews 3 of the original 6 classes, and even those will have only their 1/3 talent-tree. We still don't know anything for sure about mercenaries, only that they will be available... which is questionable for content already owned and actively traded by players.

So, what I don't understand is not the pessimism, but the generally overly optimistic community on the forum. On the PvE side the only implemented content is the Arena, and generally I consider it as more a reason to be wary - even if I don't mention the AI - than hyped.

LNQ
01-11-2016, 04:40 AM
So, what I don't understand is not the pessimism, but the generally overly optimistic community on the forum. On the PvE side the only implemented content is the Arena, and generally I consider it as more a reason to be wary - even if I don't mention the AI - than hyped.

You can live a life in misery and pessimism, bloating all setbacks regarding a videogame you are enthusiastic about out of proportion, or you can start enjoying your brief stay on the books of the living to the fullest. I recommend the latter.

Current state of Hex is a case of glass half full / half empty. You get to choose which one it is, to me it is half full. Whatever you choose, it doesn't change the fact that it's filling up at a good pace.

malloc31
01-11-2016, 05:03 AM
You can live a life in misery and pessimism, bloating all setbacks regarding a videogame you are enthusiastic about out of proportion, or you can start enjoying your brief stay on the books of the living to the fullest. I recommend the latter.

Current state of Hex is a case of glass half full / half empty. You get to choose which one it is, to me it is half full. Whatever you choose, it doesn't change the fact that it's filling up at a good pace.

The current state of hex is not half full, at the very best it is a glass 1/4 full, (if the beginning of PVE gets released then it will be half full, go look at the kickstarter page and see all the things promised by release)

There are 2 kinds of people, there are those at work that tell their bosses only what they want to hear, paint rosey outlooks no mater the reality of situations; and there are people who tell it as it is, and try to get problems out in the open so that they can be corrected.

katkillad
01-11-2016, 05:33 AM
They've mentioned a few times "things should get easier" since after set 1, but we are still way off from a new set every 3-4 months.


But Bugged interactions wont cause long delays between sets. Sets will be released faster and bugs will get squashed while they are in play. Yes it will be "Easier" to make new sets but you are correct that the bugs will be the main issue

Let's also not pretend that bugged card interactions get fixed in a timely manner, they won't cause long delays because some bugs just live forever. Hello AoD bug.

Jensling
01-11-2016, 05:52 AM
The way Hex is now, I have a very bad feeling that it will be going down the road of Legend of the Five Rings (L5R), a niche tcg which was released just a couple of years after MtG and in 2015 finally gave up being a tcg and was sold and is now set to become a lcg in two years time. It was beset with logistics problems and what not and are always missing deadlines of its sets. In the end, it even allowed proxies of new sets to be used in official tournaments because the new set delivery was off and people simply could not get any of the cards.

The marketing of L5R was terrible, the community had a hard time getting new players to stick around as people get bored with waiting for new sets which is announced and then delayed. All of the above is what is happening now for Hex.

If the general consensus is that announcements (official or otherwise) by the company president cannot be taken at face value, that is very bad for marketing. Who do you trust if not the company president? It is simply bad marketing strategy to allow a representative to imply something which can be taken as promises and then not be able to meet it. That is what 'unofficial and unconfirmed leaks' are for, to build hype and at the same time be able to say with a straight face that nothing was promised when something goes wrong. Someone heard from someone else that PVE would be in Dec 2015 is very different from Cory implying end of year.

Of course, there was other problems with L5R that caused it to never break out of being a niche, but for now the similarity is there with how it failed.

As someone who has repeatedly tried to get people to play L5R in the past, the problem often wasn't the schedules, it was the learning curve, and abstractions, it was hard to get people to understand how the game worked, how to make effective plays and even how to read cards. That said it was a great game imo (the best physical TCG I've played) just not for everyone.

HEX on the other hand is rather simple to learn, and there is some focus on being approachable (even at the expense sometimes of the hardcore players... R.I.P. "Hold priority") the main thing keeping people from playing in my experience is that they are waiting for PvE, because they want more F2P content before investing.

Mahes
01-11-2016, 06:24 AM
You can live a life in misery and pessimism, bloating all setbacks regarding a videogame you are enthusiastic about out of proportion, or you can start enjoying your brief stay on the books of the living to the fullest. I recommend the latter.

Current state of Hex is a case of glass half full / half empty. You get to choose which one it is, to me it is half full. Whatever you choose, it doesn't change the fact that it's filling up at a good pace.


This glass is far from half full. It is actually rather empty for even the veterans given the amount of time in between content. A new player only gets to see a glass half full. Would you drink from a glass that was half empty already? I certainly would not. On top of looking at a glass half full, new players get to see a glass that has cracks and chips on it. You have to be able to refill this glass in a timely manner or people go to other places to drink. If people go to other places to drink then pretty soon it becomes very difficult to refill the glass.

Zophie
01-11-2016, 06:36 AM
All dates should just go through me now. I will be your weather rock. If someone tells you a date, you come to me, I will log into the client see if whatever feature is present on that day and every day leading up to it, and let you know once it's available, then there will be no more issues. I will only say it exists once it is present in the client, then you will know for certain that it is available.

l5r was nothing like hex. Wasn't digital primarily. they had a ton of printing/distribution problems. Hex might have issues with bugs in the future but delivering new sets on time shouldn't be an issue. They know how important that is. They know we're overdue for a new set, but they're laying groundwork. As soon as a new set is available in client, or pve is released I will let everyone know. Until you hear it from me it's just conjecture.

This is great, thanks for taking on this burden for us all, Gwaer.

Khazrakh
01-11-2016, 07:03 AM
This glass is far from half full. It is actually rather empty for even the veterans given the amount of time in between content. A new player only gets to see a glass half full. Would you drink from a glass that was half empty already? I certainly would not. On top of looking at a glass half full, new players get to see a glass that has cracks and chips on it. You have to be able to refill this glass in a timely manner or people go to other places to drink. If people go to other places to drink then pretty soon it becomes very difficult to refill the glass.

I've probably been drinking from that glass for thousands of hours already, can't wait for the free refill :P
Pretty amazing glass if you ask me...

athlee
01-11-2016, 07:43 AM
As someone who has repeatedly tried to get people to play L5R in the past, the problem often wasn't the schedules, it was the learning curve, and abstractions, it was hard to get people to understand how the game worked, how to make effective plays and even how to read cards. That said it was a great game imo (the best physical TCG I've played) just not for everyone.

HEX on the other hand is rather simple to learn, and there is some focus on being approachable (even at the expense sometimes of the hardcore players... R.I.P. "Hold priority") the main thing keeping people from playing in my experience is that they are waiting for PvE, because they want more F2P content before investing.

The learning curve was steep, but there has always been people willing to learn and play. The problem was keeping them.

Stores had nothing to work on for marketing, sometimes they have a poster for the next set for months, but nothing to show for it as it gets delayed. Other times, there was no stock even after official release. A lot of players get fed up with waiting for the next set and the uncertainty around them. In my country, the game basically died shortly after WotC bought it and later was kept alive by a small group of hardcore players. Over the years, the core remained but players came and go.

Digital games technical problems leading to delay in expansions/sets are the equivalent of a non-digital game's delivery problems.

I repeat what I posted earlier:


Just take a look at how many players there is in the game. The last stress test, how many players joined? How many people are online at any one time? 14k likes the facebook page, how many are players and how many are just people passing through? tcg needs players and bad marketing will not be able to attract them.

I play Hex because I like drafting and deck building, the same reason why I play mtg and L5R. However, without regular set schedules, drafting and deck building gets stale.

fido_one
01-11-2016, 08:01 AM
snip [series of opinions].


There is the fact your only posts are extreme negativity.. Which is interesting to note.

Athlee, your comments are welcome, as are your opinions.

WolfCrypt, he's six posts in, his points aren't trying to stir up drama, and while I disagree with most of them, they aren't nearly as crazy as a whole big group of people who are a lot more negative than this. Let's be a little bit more welcoming when someone takes their first steps in the forum community.

Gwaer
01-11-2016, 08:12 AM
Athlee, your comments are welcome, as are your opinions.

WolfCrypt, he's six posts in, his points aren't trying to stir up drama, and while I disagree with most of them, they aren't nearly as crazy as a whole big group of people who are a lot more negative than this. Let's be a little bit more welcoming when someone takes their first steps in the forum community.

Wolf crypt will become just as negative if the next pve spoiler is orc based. Which will be funny.

YoureNoDaisy
01-11-2016, 08:22 AM
This glass is far from half full. It is actually rather empty for even the veterans given the amount of time in between content. A new player only gets to see a glass half full. Would you drink from a glass that was half empty already? I certainly would not. On top of looking at a glass half full, new players get to see a glass that has cracks and chips on it. You have to be able to refill this glass in a timely manner or people go to other places to drink. If people go to other places to drink then pretty soon it becomes very difficult to refill the glass.

I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.

plaguedealer
01-11-2016, 08:54 AM
For the product delivered and the size of the company, Hex is doing a great job. Just got done trying a new ccg and heh, thank goodness for hex.

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 08:58 AM
Wolf crypt will become just as negative if the next pve spoiler is orc based. Which will be funny.

Why can't we get a spoil of a race I like? I'm unsure on one and I like 5 so only two I hate but Hex keeps using the biggest spoils ever for Dwarf and Orcs. Sure Fort Romor and Into Woods spoils had Shin and Elves but we know nothing bout their classes sept Elves have a Dire Bee.

And bout Athlee I don't care bout how many posts they have we all start with low numbers just bugs mme their first posts are just bashing the game badly. No one seems to note that despite the bad comunication at least Hex is an active company. I've been in a few games where they are all hyped up then die before getting out of beta hell a few before alpha. One game had a NDA alpha but that was in 2014 and there's no updates bout it. So sure Hex is a bit messy but saying it's going to die is a bit extreme.

fido_one
01-11-2016, 08:58 AM
For the product delivered and the size of the company, Hex is doing a great job. Just got done trying a new ccg and heh, thank goodness for hex.

Well share man, what was the CCG?

plaguedealer
01-11-2016, 09:01 AM
Well share man, what was the CCG?

Pretty sure there is no nda, runscape chronicles. It is extremely unique, but not my taste at all. Pretty sure anyone can get in closed beta by applying.

fido_one
01-11-2016, 09:02 AM
Pretty sure there is no nda, runscape chronicles. It is extremely unique, but not my taste at all. Pretty sure anyone can get in closed beta by applying.

Thanks! I'm a little OCD on Hex and my exposure to competition is mostly through these forums.

Gwaer
01-11-2016, 09:04 AM
Why can't we get a spoil of a race I like?

Because it's funny when you don't. I'm kind of hoping the release only has two races, dwarves and orcs. =P

plaguedealer
01-11-2016, 09:04 AM
Thanks! I'm a little OCD on Hex and my exposure to competition is mostly through these forums.

Np, the full name is chronicles: runescape.

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 09:05 AM
Because it's funny when you don't. I'm kind of hoping the release only has two races, dwarves and orcs. =P

Don't rile me up please with a yeti on top?

Gwaer
01-11-2016, 09:09 AM
Don't rile me up please with a yeti on top?

Maybe instead a single race that is some sort of dwarf orc hybrid, has different stats depending on if you choose ardent or underworld.



This is totally the creation of the dwarf/orc hybrid race!

http://www.battlebots.com/

Xenavire
01-11-2016, 09:10 AM
Why can't we get a spoil of a race I like? I'm unsure on one and I like 5 so only two I hate but Hex keeps using the biggest spoils ever for Dwarf and Orcs. Sure Fort Romor and Into Woods spoils had Shin and Elves but we know nothing bout their classes sept Elves have a Dire Bee.

And bout Athlee I don't care bout how many posts they have we all start with low numbers just bugs mme their first posts are just bashing the game badly. No one seems to note that despite the bad comunication at least Hex is an active company. I've been in a few games where they are all hyped up then die before getting out of beta hell a few before alpha. One game had a NDA alpha but that was in 2014 and there's no updates bout it. So sure Hex is a bit messy but saying it's going to die is a bit extreme.

There have been roughly equal spoils for every race, but there are only so many things you can spoil before giving everything away. Story seems to have a tight lid on it, so it comes down to cards and mechanics, and of the 3 talent trees, we have seen a WIP and a complete one. Given the screens, we are likely to see a mage next, followed by an up to date warrior spoiler (this one is likely to be an Orc, so people can compare it directly to the Gencon spoiler to see how things have changed), so my educated guess is that the next tree will be Mage, and likely not Orc or Dwarf.

I also wouldn't be too surprised if they decide to drop the basic racials on us one of these weeks, which would be an equal spoiler.

Just be patient, it will all come together soon.

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 09:13 AM
WHAT third talent tree?????

Xenavire
01-11-2016, 09:28 AM
WHAT third talent tree?????

The screens have shown Cleric, Warrior, and Mage are options. If they are going to spoil all 3, chances are it will be mage next.

Though the 3 missing classes are an unknown element, I could be proven wrong. I'll just draw my conclusions from the evidence I can see, and be pleasantly surprised if that information is incomplete.

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 09:41 AM
Oh was thinking you meant a tree I missed XD

Xenavire
01-11-2016, 09:54 AM
Oh was thinking you meant a tree I missed XD

Nah. If there was a tree out there to see, you better believe people would be linking it and making 10+ page threads - it would be impossible to miss. :p

IronPheasant
01-11-2016, 10:00 AM
Annoyingly I keep refreshing the page today in some futile hope of a news post.

I wish they had left an announcement of when an announcement might be made, when they cancelled the announcement that was announced previously.

We're through the looking glass people.

Saeijou
01-11-2016, 12:12 PM
Annoyingly I keep refreshing the page today in some futile hope of a news post.

I wish they had left an announcement of when an announcement might be made, when they cancelled the announcement that was announced previously.

We're through the looking glass people.

if they would make an announcement, they would make the same mistake than before...
because if they can't deliver... everyone is upset again... and maybe feels trolled

knightofeffect
01-11-2016, 01:56 PM
I feel that the lack of an announcement about the announcement that didn't get announced in the last announcement is, in itself, an announcement that they have learned not to make an announcement about an announcement that they then have to go back and announce that it won't quite yet be announced.

Man I can't wait till this week's announcement!

Mejis
01-11-2016, 03:01 PM
Annoyingly I keep refreshing the page today in some futile hope of a news post.

I wish they had left an announcement of when an announcement might be made, when they cancelled the announcement that was announced previously.

We're through the looking glass people.

Haha I am doing the same. ;)

tehhuntre
01-11-2016, 07:51 PM
I feel that the lack of an announcement about the announcement that didn't get announced in the last announcement is, in itself, an announcement that they have learned not to make an announcement about an announcement that they then have to go back and announce that it won't quite yet be announced.

Man I can't wait till this week's announcement!

...announcement...

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 07:53 PM
My head hurts now after reading last few posts

ossuary
01-11-2016, 08:02 PM
The people responsible for sacking the people who pre-announced the announcement, have been sacked.

Sinistarlol
01-11-2016, 08:16 PM
I was under the impression that Mage, Warrior and Cleric were Underworld classes.

Then Ardent has Rogue, Ranger, Warlock.

How hasn't anybody even thought of that yet? :P

Xenavire
01-11-2016, 08:31 PM
I was under the impression that Mage, Warrior and Cleric were Underworld classes.

Then Ardent has Rogue, Ranger, Warlock.

How hasn't anybody even thought of that yet? :P

Because an Orc warrior was spoiled already.

ossuary
01-11-2016, 09:01 PM
If anything, rogue and warlock would sound more underworld-y. But no, CZE has already told us that all 8 races will be able to play all 6 classes. That doesn't necessarily mean plans haven't changed, but that's what we were last told (several months ago).

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 09:05 PM
If anything, rogue and warlock would sound more underworld-y. But no, CZE has already told us that all 8 races will be able to play all 6 classes. That doesn't necessarily mean plans haven't changed, but that's what we were last told (several months ago).

I don't want Warlock to be Underworld Exclusive....

ossuary
01-12-2016, 10:07 AM
I never said they were. I was responding to the person who suggested all the traditionally "good" classes were exclusive to underworld, while the two I mentioned that are generally considered to be more nefarious were exclusive to ardent. The point of my comment was that the idea was silly. ;)

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 10:23 AM
I need to not take things so literally...