PDA

View Full Version : 2016 and Hex - Let's Really Think About Dates and Expectations without Whining



fido_one
01-11-2016, 08:19 PM
Hey all,

I whine as much as the next poster, sometimes more, but there are about 10 active 'they missed their PvE/set window' threads and I'd love for this NOT to be one of those. What I'm hoping to do here is to reason out what to expect in 2016 for Hex sans any vitriol on past history of not making dates. It's 2016, new year and all, so for this thread let's try not to look at the past and look at what Hex could or needs to be with the info we have. If you want to use past CZE history or CZE development in your arguments, one of those other 10 threads may be a better fit, and you'll find me squabbling in those threads as well.

So my predictions: PvE in mid to late January or early Feb. Set 4, I'll take a swing and say March 1st (or there-abouts). I've got what I think is some solid reasoning, which I'm sure is wrong because I'm pretty stupid, so I'd love for people to throw their two cents on my projections/thoughts:

Hex is still a small community and it is momentarily shrinking if you go by AH data and what seems to be tournaments firing off a bit slower. Fewer people playing can almost directly be attributed to 'no new content', which we all know CZE is working feverishly to produce, and those numbers will pop back up to previous high marks when PvE and/or Set 4 is released. Nothing to be overly worried about as this is standard for most TCGs. I'm assuming CZE is doing everything it can to lean on driving new and old back in two pushes, first with PvE and then Set 4.

While they can drive older players back with PvE and Set 4, this particular round will need to be engaging enough to keep them back as while there will still be new stuff arriving past 2016 that is cool, PvE with the PvP sets will allow people to judge the game if it is to their tastes or not in general. In other words, other content they will release, for a while at least, will be enhancements to the real foundation of the game which we should see shortly. If people turn away in 2016, it'll be a harder than any other time in Hex's history to get them back. Doublebacks, leader boards, guilds, keeps, etc. are all really neat stuff, but all build off of the PvE and PvP set foundations which should be out for all to experience relatively soon.

If we're still squabbling about basic PvE content and consistent set releases into 2017 the game might have insurmountable hill to climb to get old players coming back and new ones coming in. Given how smart the people at CZE are, they probably realize this to (or they don't because I'm simply wrong on all of this).

But that's not really doom and gloom speaking, we're actually primed to launch into the stratosphere: 99% of Hex's 'marketing push' came from the KS. For most new players, it's mostly word of mouth or what-have-you since the KS. There hasn't been a lot of press coverage for Hex since the KS, so little in fact I thought it was rather alarming.

Now I think it works in our favor: this game isn't on most people's radar which is good as it's been a pretty bumpy ride (albeit a great one). When it does come on people's radar with a marketing push, their first experience of HEX will [hopefully] be a massive game that engages in multiple areas in the way that a lot of us imagined during the KS, even if it isn't as feature rich as we had hoped at 'release'. For any project, especially games, the first impression is generally your best shot to get new players. FF XIV:A Realm Reborn being the only exception I can think off the top of my head that managed to make a so-so/bad impression and get people back years later, and they made that resurgence partly due to the strength of the brand.

So if PvE is even close to what they are saying, and it will be is my guess, Hex should be making quite the impression, especially with the 100k tournament and news of Set 4 being consistently slammed in new players' faces when they log into the game for their first few times.

As for the projected dates themselves, the Blizzard comparisons we make of 'it'll be ready when it is ready', will have to end for Hex, at least on the PvP side of things (which also influences PvE). The 'ready when it is ready' can and has existed to some extent up until now, much to the chagrin of parts of the community, but thankfully memory is short and we'll all forget the delays if the game is as good as we hope it to be.

But starting in 2016 and by 2017, CZE won't be able to slip on major dates. That's an opinion of course, but look at the facts: they want to be a competitive TCG game. They wanted 4 sets a year, given the complexities (probably with PvE integration), they've reduced that to 3 sets. 2 sets a year and I doubt it would be a TCG game that people will want to play for real e-sports. So they have to hit those marks. As people have said, the 'engine' is far better refined, so making sets isn't nearly as difficult as it once was for them (still damn hard though I'm sure).

CZE has tripled/quadrupled down on their rhetoric in releasing PvE before set 4, so missing that would be their biggest PR disaster to date. All signs point to this very much NOT happening, and that PvE is going to be released quite soon.

So. 3 Sets a year. PvE is going to draw a lot of people in and the 100k tournament is Feb 20th and 21st. So getting PvE out in January gives CZE a month to get players in and have new players see front and center that they're playing a game that is coming out of the gate with a 100k tournament. They miss the PvE content by Feb 20th, they're probably missing a really, really big marketing pull. So it makes sense to assume mid-to-late Jan or very early Feb. I'd also suspect a one / two punch: PvE is released, a few weeks of refining, and then a marketing push for set 4 during or right before/after the 100k tournament.

At that point, you've got new players entering a game where card and battle mechanics and the first 3 sets are rock solid, a PvE campaign that is hopefully super engaging (and from the previews, I don't think anyone will be comparing it to the campaigns of other TCGs out there which have rubbish campaigns, even if PvE isn't as great as we hope it will be), a 100k sponsored tournament in their face, and news of fresh content coming up soon.

Oh the March date for Set 4? 3 sets a year, PvE coming in, that would fit into a really good marketing strategy - announce a bit after the PvE release, around the tournament, and shortly after the tournament keep em' coming with set 4. Your rotation of three sets would work out like this:

March 1st
June 1st
Sept 1st

Again, less than 3 sets, they won't be competitive. They seem to not be able to hit 4 sets, which is totally understandable given all the heavy lifting that PvE requires. If they don't make those set dates starting in 2016 and rock solid by 2017, they'll eventually hurt their draw for competitive PvP players. Since CZE has said set design has gotten 'easier' due to their foundational work, they will have a better opportunity in 2016 to hit their marks. And they'll need to hit them if they want to be the e-sport Juggernaut that they want to be.

TL:DR; 2016 is going to be a very exciting year for Hex, with what I suspect to be a nice big marketing push in the next few months. While delays have been talked about to death, it really hasn't hurt the long term success of the game, and since 2016 will be the 'make it or break it' year for Hex my guess is we'll see less and less slipped dates on big content pushes like set releases.

Gwaer
01-11-2016, 08:28 PM
lets just peg our expectations on pve coming out before the end of march. Just pretend they said that last year instead of before the end of the year, then if it is out earlier than that we can rejoice, and if it isn't we can stop like 3 months worth of meltdowns and condense them into a quarterly meltdown.

fido_one
01-11-2016, 08:42 PM
lets just peg our expectations on pve coming out before the end of march. Just pretend they said that last year instead of before the end of the year, then if it is out earlier than that we can rejoice, and if it isn't we can stop like 3 months worth of meltdowns and condense them into a quarterly meltdown.

Part of my point is, I think all of this drama is going to slowly dissipate for the big items in 2016. Maybe PvE will be March, but after that, big things, like set releases will have to move like clockwork. Since PvP sets are so intertwined with PvE, even if they don't drum up equipment for new set cards, the PvE portions will be revisited as new PvP cards to come into play for your dungeon decks.

I'm sorry if I came off as negative in my OP, my point is I think 2016 is going to be a lot more predictable because it simply has to be for the game to survive, and if I read CZE's actions up until now I think they know that and have been preparing for it. If PvE comes out in April or May yeah, I'll be disappointed, but I'll still be hopeful that there will be stabilization in content releases soon after this year. Personally I think CZE is going to rise to what I see as a necessary challenge and get content releases sorted to a good schedule, and our meltdowns will be diverted to other stupid things, like 'why are we in 2017 and we still haven't nerfed baby yeti's yet?'

fido_one
01-11-2016, 08:56 PM
Personally I think CZE is going to rise to what I see as a necessary challenge and get content releases sorted to a good schedule, and our meltdowns will be diverted to other stupid things, like 'why are we in 2017 and we still haven't nerfed baby yeti's yet?'

I'm sorry, that was terribly rude of me, nerfing baby yeti's is not a stupid discussion like I implied. I shouldn't have said that. It's a very relevant discussion and core to the game, I wasn't thinking right.

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 09:02 PM
I am so with you Fido on the Jan/Feb release for PVE. I'll grin and bear it if I have to choose between warrior mage and cleric but all eight races but I'm under the impression that screenshot was a WIP and not finalized. I'm very hopeful that PVE will be the coolest thing ever and Blizzard will be having an aneurysm over how HS is dead now Hex has created the standard for online TCG lol. So.. Does Fido take bones?

Gwaer
01-11-2016, 09:07 PM
^ see what you did. just say end of march. The longer we can go without wolfcrypt blowing a gasket from the single Dworc race the better.

fido_one
01-11-2016, 09:12 PM
^ see what you did. just say end of march. The longer we can go without wolfcrypt blowing a gasket from the single Dworc race the better.

Honestly, I don't care anymore, I got a bone. I'm happy regardless.

szimek
01-11-2016, 09:17 PM
from update: "I hope you enjoyed reading, and can’t wait to show you more stuff in the coming weeks!" so i wouldn't count on January. Maybe Feb, but i think March.

fido_one
01-11-2016, 09:23 PM
from update: "I hope you enjoyed reading, and can’t wait to show you more stuff in the coming weeks!" so i wouldn't count on January. Maybe Feb, but i think March.

Someone from CZE made clear not to take that statement as any indicator of release time, at all (as I had made the exact same assumption as you in an older thread). Possibly because the article could have been written a long time ago and only recently localized or published off-schedule as they missed their 'big announcement.'

I think the big point to remember is the 100k tournament. It hasn't gotten a lot of press... yet. I doubt they'd let that come and go without stirring things up a little bit more. What I see, and what CZE may see, is getting out PvE before the tournament on Feb 20th and 21st makes for a really good marketing combo.

You check out the game as it's the only TCG out there with MMO and a campaign that isn't a total joke, and you're lambasted by a 100k PvP tournament. Do that in March and it's old news, do it in Jan/Feb and you get people looking into the game sticking around as the tournament helps promote Hex as a 'big thing.' CZE isn't going to want to miss that opportunity, so my guess is they are doing everything they can to release PvE before the tournament. That doesn't mean they can make that date, I'm just pointing it out as a target they are probably trying to hit.

plaguedealer
01-11-2016, 09:31 PM
i agree with the premise that they will want pve in before the 100k tournament. I don't know if Hex can release three pvp sets this year however. If pve is popular and making money (please please) they will want to add content to that also (maybe in the summer). I think it would be a huge mistake if they add pve and do nothing with it until 2017.

Zophie
01-11-2016, 09:54 PM
^ see what you did. just say end of march. The longer we can go without wolfcrypt blowing a gasket from the single Dworc race the better.

Maybe they'll split them into two racial variants, Oarfs and Dworcs, that way players will have more options available, though to be honest it might be hard to decide which I like better, I guess it'll depend on which one is the exclusive warlock race.


OP: Nah let's say April, August, and December. I'm thinking (hoping) that we'll all be surprised by Set 4 though, but let's see how PVE goes first.

WolfCrypt
01-11-2016, 10:53 PM
If that Dwarf Cleric tree is ages old but 'current' as in how the talent works and that is finalized can you imagine how much progress they made? This is actually extremely positive. Also what I do now? I don't see what's the problem I've never explicitly went psycho pissed off bout the talent tree....

wolzarg
01-11-2016, 10:57 PM
Maybe they'll split them into two racial variants, Oarfs and Dworcs, that way players will have more options available, though to be honest it might be hard to decide which I like better, I guess it'll depend on which one is the exclusive warlock race.
God you guys are such bum caves... i mean I'm laughing but its a tiny bit cruel.

szimek
01-12-2016, 12:47 AM
Someone from CZE made clear not to take that statement as any indicator of release time, at all (as I had made the exact same assumption as you in an older thread). Possibly because the article could have been written a long time ago and only recently localized or published off-schedule as they missed their 'big announcement.'


Oh, good to know :)

IronPheasant
01-12-2016, 05:33 AM
I hear Oarf warlocks can conjure up zombie sandwiches

porkchop zombie sandwiches

Xavon
01-12-2016, 05:43 AM
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. PvE is already here, it is called Starter Trials and Frostring Arena.

Personally I am waiting for Champion Customization and Campaign, which I don't expect before the end of Q2 (year deliberately withheld).

Vorsa
01-12-2016, 06:43 AM
I keep really want to estimate set 4 before campaign - which from a financial perspective eases pressure (though it would put Q3-4 on the table for campaign) - but as Hex E. staff have repeatedly said campaign is up next, I'll keep them in the proper order. :)

I'm going to fully-charge optimism and say campaign release in February, although smaller than initially expected:
* 3 Classes (cleric, warrior, mage).
* Level 10 cap.
* Maybe as many as 10 dungeons though (one in each race's territory plus an introductory and a finale).
* No mercs.
* No raids.
* No crafting.
But after the initial furore, I think people will find that is still a lot of content to play through for a full book 1 collection - and a much more varied experience than 'completing' Frost Ring was.

I wouldn't be surprised by set 4 in March, but I feel Hex E. may be too wary of announcing it before the campaign is in players hands (there'd be limited scope for last-minute fixes to campaign update before they collide) - so I'll estimate April.

Then I think they'll surpass people's expectations with set 5 in August and set 6 in December - on the flip-side however, the only further PvE addition for 2016 could be the other classes.

fido_one
01-12-2016, 07:06 AM
I keep really want to estimate set 4 before campaign - which from a financial perspective eases pressure (though it would put Q3-4 on the table for campaign) - but as Hex E. staff have repeatedly said campaign is up next, I'll keep them in the proper order. :)

I'm going to fully-charge optimism and say campaign release in February, although smaller than initially expected:
* 3 Classes (cleric, warrior, mage).
* Level 10 cap.
* Maybe as many as 10 dungeons though (one in each race's territory plus an introductory and a finale).
* No mercs.
* No raids.
* No crafting.
But after the initial furore, I think people will find that is still a lot of content to play through for a full book 1 collection - and a much more varied experience than 'completing' Frost Ring was.

I wouldn't be surprised by set 4 in March, but I feel Hex E. may be too wary of announcing it before the campaign is in players hands (there'd be limited scope for last-minute fixes to campaign update before they collide) - so I'll estimate April.

Then I think they'll surpass people's expectations with set 5 in August and set 6 in December - on the flip-side however, the only further PvE addition for 2016 could be the other classes.

I think this is good reasoning. Obviously we wanted more content, but the above would be enough to draw players in and keep them for the tournament.

For those saying April and beyond, I'm sorry, I just don't see the reasoning. CZE would lose some of it's staunchest fans if it released set 4 before PvE - namely because they have been very, very clear that set 4 won't come out before PvE. Even if they are missing their dates, they are obviously close, otherwise we would have gotten a 'PvE isn't coming in 2015' a week before 2015 came to a close, my guess is we would have gotten it a lot earlier.

No PvE, no set 4 by end of Q1? I can't see them letting that happen - especially with all the money they are pumping into this tournament, it would come and go with only the most dedicated knowing about it and not increasing their user base that much.

It's make it or break it year for Hex. Big things need to happen in the next few months otherwise people won't come back. I've been logging into Hex a lot less often, as probably most other people here, again, it's natural, and I'm sure CZE is acutely aware of it and won't let April come by without fixing it.

Regarding announcing set 4, it really sounds like they are refining it (new art, etc.), and waiting for PvE to come out. With that said, they could be more confident on a release date and announce the new set at the right time, a.k.a. when they feel they've drawn in enough new players with PvE, the tournament, or they'll time it when they think they need that player boost to fuel the other ones.

Synergy people. As much as I hate the word, that's what we're talking about here. Go to April, they squander a lot of momentum they've been building with the tournament, PvE and set 4 hype. That's why I think Feb for PvE, March for set 4 is more of a possibility than not.

Valnir
01-12-2016, 07:37 AM
I wont be as specific as others, but I think 2016 will be a big bang to HEX.. PVE, new sets, smoother updates, marketing...
It will be a turn 6 with the Azurecannon deck! :D

Saeijou
01-12-2016, 08:34 AM
sorry, but i dont think that is the case...
although i think we will get a lot this year (PvE and new set(s)), i think we aren't on safe ground yet

there is still to much to do... raiding with 2 others, guilds...
i still see A LOT potential for delays and "unexpected dificulties"

i'm sorry if that sounds negative, but i just want to be realistic

i love the game, i'm patient to wait... but i also see, what happened and what will probably happen again

fido_one
01-12-2016, 09:01 AM
sorry, but i dont think that is the case...
although i think we will get a lot this year (PvE and new set(s)), i think we aren't on safe ground yet

there is still to much to do... raiding with 2 others, guilds...
i still see A LOT potential for delays and "unexpected dificulties"

i'm sorry if that sounds negative, but i just want to be realistic

i love the game, i'm patient to wait... but i also see, what happened and what will probably happen again

Not negative mate; I agree, I don't think we'll be feature complete for many years... But PvE will be here in some substantial way sooner rather than later, and with that content and the subsequent sets, it will be a reviewable product. In other words, once PvE is released and they get sets on an established routine, I don't think keeps, guilds, and/or raids will make a ton of fans of the game at that point. PvE content will be CZE's best push to get new players and keep them is the point I'm trying to make and I think projecting a date isn't totally careless as a result, but I won't try to guess when all those other awesome things are coming.

Tazelbain
01-12-2016, 09:09 AM
Hex and Cory specifically bet the farm on PvE, literally millions of dollars. It has be good and it demonstrate that their vision has a future. It can't be a piece of shit shoved out the door to make a deadline.

fido_one
01-12-2016, 09:14 AM
Hex and Cory specifically bet the farm on PvE, literally millions of dollars. It has be good and it demonstrate that their vision has a future. It can't be a piece of shit shoved out the door to make a deadline.

My point is they seem very close to releasing it by their own accord and given the lack of content and that they feel PvE needs to come out before set 4, they're probably shooting for a release near the tournament.

I agree with your point here, they should absolutely NOT push it out if it isn't ready, retention of players be damned. Thankfully I think CZE knows that, and considering the history here, I think Feb is still a possibility. It'll make for an exciting 2016 one way or another.

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 10:03 AM
I'm under the impression Campaign is very close

fido_one
01-12-2016, 10:20 AM
I'm under the impression Campaign is very close

As am I, as I think it's kind of a necessity. If it isn't close, I'll be bummed, a bit agitated at the communications up until now, but let's just say I wouldn't be betting real money on the matter either, nor would I say that missing a close release date means anyone in CZE did something wrong or off.

Lastly, I'm not trying to hype a Jan/Feb release date, though I do think there are enough things aligned that it is safe to assume CZE is targeting that time frame and doing everything in their power to make it. I wouldn't read this thread as 'oh it'll come out in Jan/Feb', however, the guess is based mostly what I imagine to be opportunity cost for CZE's strategy.

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 10:25 AM
As am I, as I think it's kind of a necessity. If it isn't close, I'll be bummed, a bit agitated at the communications up until now, but let's just say I wouldn't be betting real money on the matter either, nor would I say that missing a close release date means anyone in CZE did something wrong or off.

Lastly, I'm not trying to hype a Jan/Feb release date, though I do think there are enough things aligned that it is safe to assume CZE is targeting that time frame and doing everything in their power to make it. I wouldn't read this thread as 'oh it'll come out in Jan/Feb', however, the guess is based mostly what I imagine to be opportunity cost for CZE's strategy.

Speaking of signs and reading into it. I think we can trust Shaq's opinion that the Cleric Update is inaccurate and it's possible 'weeks' was made awhile ago.

Tazelbain
01-12-2016, 10:33 AM
I think they have targets but its not dates but amounts of polish and fun.

Xenavire
01-12-2016, 03:50 PM
I think they have targets but its not dates but amounts of polish and fun.

I agree with this mostly, but they know time is a factor, or they would probably delay until they had something immense and shiny.

Saeijou
01-12-2016, 03:51 PM
i think there will be a big announcement on friday :P

Zophie
01-12-2016, 03:57 PM
I'm under the impression Campaign is very close

http://i.imgur.com/nCL6dwg.gif

Keep leading that PVE Hype Train wolfy, we're counting on you ;)

AswanJaguar
01-12-2016, 04:12 PM
i think there will be a big announcement on friday :P

If there is, they SURE AS HELL AREN'T GOING TO TELL US BEFORE FRIDAY THIS TIME!

Probably for the best.

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 05:02 PM
http://i.imgur.com/nCL6dwg.gif

Keep leading that PVE Hype Train wolfy, we're counting on you ;)

Imagine what I'll do when it's out ;)

IronPheasant
01-12-2016, 05:21 PM
If there is, they SURE AS HELL AREN'T GOING TO TELL US BEFORE FRIDAY THIS TIME!

Probably for the best.

Actually I want an announcement for the announcement now.

We already know it's out there, hovering in limbo. And we're addicted to disappointment now. Conditioned for it.

How disappointing it would be to not be disappointed Friday?

Pretty disappointing imo.

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 06:31 PM
lmao Iron.

knightofeffect
01-12-2016, 06:42 PM
2016 is pretty much the make or break year for Hex.

I've been expecting PvE by the end of March since middle of last year and I'd still say that has got to be the hard deadline for it. It would be awesome if they could get PvE out by the end of January and then get a couple bug patches in before the 100k tournament hype train, but an end of March timeframe would still allow them to hype the hell out of PvE during the tournament and keep it on peoples mind until the launch.

I'll say set 4 sometime in April, but it is probably really dependent on the PvE launch. PvE launched end of this month? I'd say middle-end of March for set 4 then. PvE launches end of March? Then I'd say they need to hit before summer for set 4. Either way, they are really going to need to bust ass to get 3 sets in this year. (Cory said hell or high water)

My expectations past that are very little additional features in 2016. This should be the year to get PvE out and just slam down the content. I know we all want all the awesome features from kickstarter and other things we have dreamed up, but again, 2016 will be the make or break year for Hex and there are millions of players out there that haven't had over 2 years to ruminate on all the awesome feature promises, so they will matter a lot less than awesome, fresh content throughout the year.

If there was one single other feature I hope they would include this year, it would be phantom limited. Just purely from a player-retention/on-boarding perspective, I'm not sure you can beat the value Hex could provide by offering phantom limited. Create a low barrier to entry, combined with a commensurate payout for the risk (IE less than our regular drafts/sealed), and you have a really effective way to introduce the masses to advanced limited TCG and retain a playerbase. Does anyone think HS would be 1/100th as popular without the phantom limited arena mode? I mean, its literally the entire game for most people I know that play it.

Anyway, just my two cents. 2017 is where I'm looking for Hex to have the expanded revenue and corresponding coding team to implement guilds, raids, bid/ask, doublebacks, etc, etc etc...

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 06:58 PM
Phantom limited??

Showsni
01-12-2016, 06:59 PM
Let's be hyper optimistic! Full game will definitely be released next Tuesday, millions of new players will have joined up by the end of the week, I'll win the IQ and Hex Ent will send everyone a free new computer to play on!

WolfCrypt
01-12-2016, 07:01 PM
Let's be hyper optimistic! Full game will definitely be released next Tuesday, millions of new players will have joined up by the end of the week, I'll win the IQ and Hex Ent will send everyone a free new computer to play on!

And they call me hyper and unrealistic :P

knightofeffect
01-12-2016, 07:19 PM
Phantom limited??

Phantom limited is the concept of only paying the entry fee for limited and not buying or bringing any product; however, anything you open in your draft or sealed, you do not keep after the tournament is over.

Mejis
01-12-2016, 07:29 PM
Phantom limited is the concept of only paying the entry fee for limited and not buying or bringing any product; however, anything you open in your draft or sealed, you do not keep after the tournament is over.

Yes this really would be fantastic.
Sealed gauntlet allowed me to properly get into a limited format (time being my major restriction for standard sealed and draft), so that was my limited barrier broken. I believe, as you say, a phantom limited would help bridge people into more advanced limited in a gentle manner.
And you're totally right about HS. Arena is the only reason I used to play HS (I never bother anymore), so I'm sure if hex incorporated a phantom limited it would bring in the more casual masses.
Having said all that, I really hope we'll see a form of dungeon (I know it's been hinted at) at some point in the future that incorporates drafting/sealed in some way. That would be so amazing and also serve as an introduction to PvP limited.

fido_one
01-12-2016, 08:48 PM
2016 is pretty much the make or break year for Hex.

I've been expecting PvE by the end of March since middle of last year and I'd still say that has got to be the hard deadline for it. It would be awesome if they could get PvE out by the end of January and then get a couple bug patches in before the 100k tournament hype train, but an end of March timeframe would still allow them to hype the hell out of PvE during the tournament and keep it on peoples mind until the launch.

I'll say set 4 sometime in April, but it is probably really dependent on the PvE launch. PvE launched end of this month? I'd say middle-end of March for set 4 then. PvE launches end of March? Then I'd say they need to hit before summer for set 4. Either way, they are really going to need to bust ass to get 3 sets in this year. (Cory said hell or high water)

My expectations past that are very little additional features in 2016. This should be the year to get PvE out and just slam down the content. I know we all want all the awesome features from kickstarter and other things we have dreamed up, but again, 2016 will be the make or break year for Hex and there are millions of players out there that haven't had over 2 years to ruminate on all the awesome feature promises, so they will matter a lot less than awesome, fresh content throughout the year.

If there was one single other feature I hope they would include this year, it would be phantom limited. Just purely from a player-retention/on-boarding perspective, I'm not sure you can beat the value Hex could provide by offering phantom limited. Create a low barrier to entry, combined with a commensurate payout for the risk (IE less than our regular drafts/sealed), and you have a really effective way to introduce the masses to advanced limited TCG and retain a playerbase. Does anyone think HS would be 1/100th as popular without the phantom limited arena mode? I mean, its literally the entire game for most people I know that play it.

Anyway, just my two cents. 2017 is where I'm looking for Hex to have the expanded revenue and corresponding coding team to implement guilds, raids, bid/ask, doublebacks, etc, etc etc...

Yeah mate you and I are aligned pretty much on the situation and the thoughts of how this could go down for the health of the game.

Haven't given thought of phantom in a while, but I do like it quite a bit! The worry would be how much would phantom detract from actual paid tournies w/ pack purchases, but out of all the things to code, I'd imagine setting up a reward structure would be rather easy given their foundations on the tournaments at this point.

knightofeffect
01-12-2016, 09:40 PM
Yeah mate you and I are aligned pretty much on the situation and the thoughts of how this could go down for the health of the game.

Haven't given thought of phantom in a while, but I do like it quite a bit! The worry would be how much would phantom detract from actual paid tournies w/ pack purchases, but out of all the things to code, I'd imagine setting up a reward structure would be rather easy given their foundations on the tournaments at this point.

Yea, you'd have to de-incentivize the reward in some fashion. Right now draft is 800p/12packs, it would have to be worse than that some determined amount. =)

Cernz
01-13-2016, 01:29 AM
1st dungeon - February 2016
Set4 - March/April 2016
Official open beta - with set4 launch or May/June 2016
Official release - end of 2016 together with the start of a new block (which makes sense for all the potential new players)

enough said! ;)

Tazelbain
01-13-2016, 09:41 AM
I don't think Hex is going introduce a format that undermines pack sales. It would to be pretty crappy value to not undermine regular limited. So I don't think we'll see Phantoms until Sets start rotating out. More like Phantom cube to let vets play exotic limited formats than a cheep format.

Saeijou
01-13-2016, 09:59 AM
1st dungeon - February 2016
Set4 - March/April 2016
Official open beta - with set4 launch or May/June 2016
Official release - end of 2016 together with the start of a new block (which makes sense for all the potential new players)

enough said! ;)

i think open beta will come with PvE release... but besides that... sounds legit ^^

knightofeffect
01-13-2016, 10:45 AM
I don't think Hex is going introduce a format that undermines pack sales. It would to be pretty crappy value to not undermine regular limited. So I don't think we'll see Phantoms until Sets start rotating out. More like Phantom cube to let vets play exotic limited formats than a cheep format.

Seems like there could exist a sweet spot. You could get real creative with the entry fees and payouts. It doesn't nessesarily have to follow the obvious value convention of plat into packs. But even with that convention, it seems like they could hit a sweet spot where they are gaining more money overall, especially when you consider the potential player retention and engagement level it could foster in tournament queues.

YoureNoDaisy
01-13-2016, 11:47 AM
Hey all,

I whine as much as the next poster, sometimes more, but there are about 10 active 'they missed their PvE/set window' threads and I'd love for this NOT to be one of those. What I'm hoping to do here is to reason out what to expect in 2016 for Hex sans any vitriol on past history of not making dates. It's 2016, new year and all, so for this thread let's try not to look at the past and look at what Hex could or needs to be with the info we have. If you want to use past CZE history or CZE development in your arguments, one of those other 10 threads may be a better fit, and you'll find me squabbling in those threads as well.

So my predictions: PvE in mid to late January or early Feb. Set 4, I'll take a swing and say March 1st (or there-abouts). I've got what I think is some solid reasoning, which I'm sure is wrong because I'm pretty stupid, so I'd love for people to throw their two cents on my projections/thoughts:

Hex is still a small community and it is momentarily shrinking if you go by AH data and what seems to be tournaments firing off a bit slower. Fewer people playing can almost directly be attributed to 'no new content', which we all know CZE is working feverishly to produce, and those numbers will pop back up to previous high marks when PvE and/or Set 4 is released. Nothing to be overly worried about as this is standard for most TCGs. I'm assuming CZE is doing everything it can to lean on driving new and old back in two pushes, first with PvE and then Set 4.

While they can drive older players back with PvE and Set 4, this particular round will need to be engaging enough to keep them back as while there will still be new stuff arriving past 2016 that is cool, PvE with the PvP sets will allow people to judge the game if it is to their tastes or not in general. In other words, other content they will release, for a while at least, will be enhancements to the real foundation of the game which we should see shortly. If people turn away in 2016, it'll be a harder than any other time in Hex's history to get them back. Doublebacks, leader boards, guilds, keeps, etc. are all really neat stuff, but all build off of the PvE and PvP set foundations which should be out for all to experience relatively soon.

If we're still squabbling about basic PvE content and consistent set releases into 2017 the game might have insurmountable hill to climb to get old players coming back and new ones coming in. Given how smart the people at CZE are, they probably realize this to (or they don't because I'm simply wrong on all of this).

But that's not really doom and gloom speaking, we're actually primed to launch into the stratosphere: 99% of Hex's 'marketing push' came from the KS. For most new players, it's mostly word of mouth or what-have-you since the KS. There hasn't been a lot of press coverage for Hex since the KS, so little in fact I thought it was rather alarming.

Now I think it works in our favor: this game isn't on most people's radar which is good as it's been a pretty bumpy ride (albeit a great one). When it does come on people's radar with a marketing push, their first experience of HEX will [hopefully] be a massive game that engages in multiple areas in the way that a lot of us imagined during the KS, even if it isn't as feature rich as we had hoped at 'release'. For any project, especially games, the first impression is generally your best shot to get new players. FF XIV:A Realm Reborn being the only exception I can think off the top of my head that managed to make a so-so/bad impression and get people back years later, and they made that resurgence partly due to the strength of the brand.

So if PvE is even close to what they are saying, and it will be is my guess, Hex should be making quite the impression, especially with the 100k tournament and news of Set 4 being consistently slammed in new players' faces when they log into the game for their first few times.

As for the projected dates themselves, the Blizzard comparisons we make of 'it'll be ready when it is ready', will have to end for Hex, at least on the PvP side of things (which also influences PvE). The 'ready when it is ready' can and has existed to some extent up until now, much to the chagrin of parts of the community, but thankfully memory is short and we'll all forget the delays if the game is as good as we hope it to be.

But starting in 2016 and by 2017, CZE won't be able to slip on major dates. That's an opinion of course, but look at the facts: they want to be a competitive TCG game. They wanted 4 sets a year, given the complexities (probably with PvE integration), they've reduced that to 3 sets. 2 sets a year and I doubt it would be a TCG game that people will want to play for real e-sports. So they have to hit those marks. As people have said, the 'engine' is far better refined, so making sets isn't nearly as difficult as it once was for them (still damn hard though I'm sure).

CZE has tripled/quadrupled down on their rhetoric in releasing PvE before set 4, so missing that would be their biggest PR disaster to date. All signs point to this very much NOT happening, and that PvE is going to be released quite soon.

So. 3 Sets a year. PvE is going to draw a lot of people in and the 100k tournament is Feb 20th and 21st. So getting PvE out in January gives CZE a month to get players in and have new players see front and center that they're playing a game that is coming out of the gate with a 100k tournament. They miss the PvE content by Feb 20th, they're probably missing a really, really big marketing pull. So it makes sense to assume mid-to-late Jan or very early Feb. I'd also suspect a one / two punch: PvE is released, a few weeks of refining, and then a marketing push for set 4 during or right before/after the 100k tournament.

At that point, you've got new players entering a game where card and battle mechanics and the first 3 sets are rock solid, a PvE campaign that is hopefully super engaging (and from the previews, I don't think anyone will be comparing it to the campaigns of other TCGs out there which have rubbish campaigns, even if PvE isn't as great as we hope it will be), a 100k sponsored tournament in their face, and news of fresh content coming up soon.

Oh the March date for Set 4? 3 sets a year, PvE coming in, that would fit into a really good marketing strategy - announce a bit after the PvE release, around the tournament, and shortly after the tournament keep em' coming with set 4. Your rotation of three sets would work out like this:

March 1st
June 1st
Sept 1st

Again, less than 3 sets, they won't be competitive. They seem to not be able to hit 4 sets, which is totally understandable given all the heavy lifting that PvE requires. If they don't make those set dates starting in 2016 and rock solid by 2017, they'll eventually hurt their draw for competitive PvP players. Since CZE has said set design has gotten 'easier' due to their foundational work, they will have a better opportunity in 2016 to hit their marks. And they'll need to hit them if they want to be the e-sport Juggernaut that they want to be.

TL:DR; 2016 is going to be a very exciting year for Hex, with what I suspect to be a nice big marketing push in the next few months. While delays have been talked about to death, it really hasn't hurt the long term success of the game, and since 2016 will be the 'make it or break it' year for Hex my guess is we'll see less and less slipped dates on big content pushes like set releases.

Start of PVE events Feb 8

Saeijou
01-13-2016, 12:03 PM
Start of PVE events Feb 8

special PVE events confirmed! :P

IronPheasant
01-15-2016, 12:09 PM
Actually I want an announcement for the announcement now.

We already know it's out there, hovering in limbo. And we're addicted to disappointment now. Conditioned for it.

How disappointing it would be to not be disappointed Friday?

Pretty disappointing imo.

Hey guys you know what day it is

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x445/terzaerian/rowdiness_intensified.gif

Vorsa
01-15-2016, 12:14 PM
Hey guys you know what day it is - let's get

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x445/terzaerian/rowdiness_intensified.gif

Awesome animation, but I'm afraid that the GameForge site suggests teh HEX Update this week will just be another artist interview (though I'm sure those are great for the artists amongst us):
http://en.hex.gameforge.com/news.html?p=4853

Spoiler alert, though: If you follow that link you will see the name of the campaign! :eek:

IronPheasant
01-15-2016, 03:50 PM
Alright, time to flip some tables

/flips Forum
/flips Cory
/flips Obama
/flips Ayatollah
/flips Pancakes

(╯□)╯ ┻━━┻

Yah, you guys upside down now.

Zophie
01-15-2016, 04:11 PM
Yah, you guys upside down now.

http://i.imgur.com/LeQysxp.gif

ʇɐɥʇ ɥʇᴉʍ looɔ ɯ,I

WolfCrypt
01-15-2016, 04:16 PM
So they spoiled a bunch of artwork that'll be in Campaign.

fido_one
01-15-2016, 04:21 PM
Lookin' good; I'll stick by my dates, though will move the campaign out further into Feb given the bump on the tournament.

Notice how they said the VIP cards run until April? Seriously doubt they're going to give us another set 3 VIP card draw, so locking down April[or maybe March] for set 4 is a safe assumption... though still an assumption of course.

Seriously, ya'll, like the rest of you, I've got my head on the rails and I think I hear the hype train coming, wouldn't mind if that train comes sooner than I thought and takes my head off with it.

IronPheasant
01-15-2016, 04:29 PM
sʎnƃ 'ʇɥƃıɹ ʇı op

ǝɯɐs ǝɥʇ ǝq ɹǝʌǝ llıʍ ƃuıɥʇou puɐ ʍou uʍop ǝpısdn ǝʍ pıɐs ı ʎǝɥ

fido_one
01-15-2016, 04:32 PM
sʎnƃ 'ʇɥƃıɹ ʇı op

ǝɯɐs ǝɥʇ ǝq ɹǝʌǝ llıʍ ƃuıɥʇou puɐ ʍou uʍop ǝpısdn ǝʍ pıɐs ı ʎǝɥ

Right. Don't try to read that if you're drunk.

Zophie
01-15-2016, 05:08 PM
sʎnƃ 'ʇɥƃıɹ ʇı op

ǝɯɐs ǝɥʇ ǝq ɹǝʌǝ llıʍ ƃuıɥʇou puɐ ʍou uʍop ǝpısdn ǝʍ pıɐs ı ʎǝɥ

http://i.imgur.com/3eVmAIs.png pǝxᴉɟ 'ɥɔʇɐɔ pooƃ

Poetic
01-18-2016, 10:10 AM
Really hope they can get a decent PvP set schedule going this year. 3 sets a year keeps the interest high and the revenue coming in for them.